Brief Interlude w/ Kerry Butler

Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories, done.

Done, Yay, that's messed up. In SVU podcast, my name is Liza Traeger and I am Makara Klank, and every week we recap.

An episode of SVU, talk about the true crimates based on and then talk to a cool guest, an actor from the show usually and then but first we catch up and see what's going on.

And there's a lot happening right now.

I'm also if you'd like to be enrayed. I should have went to bed last night. I didn't. I put on Gone Girls, the Gilgo Beach, fucking Long Island killer. We covered this before it was solved, so that was episode eighty six.

I like reread your notes because I was like, I wonder what, like what we knew, what we didn't know?

What if you just want to be enraged by police ineptitude, corruption fucked up?

I mean I I should have gone. I couldn't go to bed.

I mean I was, oh my god, outrage fists in my bed, like We always talk about police being so bad at their job, but this is so hard. Just so many women sex workers brutalized, murdered, tortured. No one gave a fuck, No one wanted to investigate. Even when evidence would come out, they fought it. They wouldn't work with other departments, which was in your notes. But like it's a really good it's a really well done three part doc. So just three parts, Okay, it's great.

I watched all three. I watched all I'm so mad.

God, it's like, yeah, well, I mean, but it is good that they caught it. It's like, these guys, you're not getting away with stuff in this day and age where we are catching.

Well now they had to.

They had to fucking put one police commissioner in prison, get rid of this other DA. They were colluding. They were fucking crazy. They're committing all these crimes. Then we bring in someone else she could. It took three different regime changes in this And I guess Suffolk County is the largest police precinct department in the country. They're like very powerful, they're the most well paid police officers in the country.

Wow.

And I guess Long Island's the biggest island in America. I mean, I had no fucking idea.

Wait, did they talk about how weird the vibe was in the town, because that was a lot of part of my research was like this town was really weird. Everybody kind of knew each other and covered up ship for each other and stuff too. Remember like this one specific little.

Town where like it all was going down near Gilgo Beach. The vibes were weird. But it's just like, I guess I don't.

Find them different from other cases we've covered where it's like kind of small even though it's this big island, it's small town. It's cops, it's a Republican, it's blue line, and it's fuck sex workers.

They're not real people, right, you know.

It's there's a fucking recording of this girl terrified and people are like, I don't know.

She sounds like maybe she went ran away, Like Carara, how could I go to bed?

There was a fucking press conference where one of the one of the white old men.

That's a nightmare. I forgot which one goes. It was.

She accidentally went in there typothermia, she took off for clothes. It's accidental death. But then they brought in Michael Badden. But it's so yeah, if you want to listen to oh that, yes, before it was solved and then now finally a task for and it was I mean decades these uh, these victims wanted justice and they talked to witness says who knew who the people looked like, like

Know what I mean. It's not like anyone was like get out of town. Not that nice man.

Yeah, oh my god, yeah, fuck all right, we gotta watch it.

They had information for forever. They wouldn't connect it, they wouldn't investigate. It's just like it really is disgusting.

Yeah, crazy, Well no, no easy segue off of that, but.

I mean no, it is. Well, well, we could go to wait, what are you gonna do? Lots of TV White House.

Listen, we went to the White House, the White Life. Let's just talk about the second one. I cannot talk about the first one.

What do you mean, what's wrong? They're just snatching people off the streets. I'm sending them to Salvador, who cares God. Not a huge deal.

The Supreme Court is letting him run unchecked. But I we went to Lego Land. Everybody, we did it. It was great, it was amazing, it was a wonderful day. It was a perfect little trip for two little kids. But the only my only gripe with Lego Land is every place you eat at Lego Land, where, by the way, the food is like pretty gross and its extremely expensive, like every amusement park, but every food is like lives on an island by itself. So if you want to

Right, that's the thing. It's like, make it a food court.

Kids are psychotic, you know, like just but besides that, fucking we get the best weather. The kids were so jazzed about everything that we went on a bunch of roller coasters. We made Oscar lie about his age. He did it. It was amazing, it was great. But so that's what did they buy? What did they buy? What he got?

Stuffy?

Rosie obviously got a stuffy of what like a square?

What is it?

Not even Lego related. It's like a fucking dog. It's like some dog. And I go, Rosie, this isn't even really legal, and she goes, please, I want it so bad. And I was like, all right, well, I mean I'm not gonna argue with you. I was like, you don't want to get a Lego set? Where at Lego Land? No, Oscar got Elsa and Anna's like a mini castle from Arundel. But I also got him a bigger one for his birthday, so he's gonna get that later. I have a little name drop, but I did so.

I did go to Mateo Lanes Radio City Music Hall show obviously incredible. I got to chit chat with Bob the drag queen, you know, and the green room in the green Room, he hosted the most beautif full outfit I've ever seen, and I just like, I can't even But Bob said that Adina Menzel is the most famous Broadway actor in the world, and I was like, huh, I want to kind of like find an argument.

He goes, well, you won't, but when you do, you could let me know.

And I've been thinking about it, and because I was like, oh, because of Frozen and then it's like Rent Wicked, like just the most recognizable, probably the most box office or like profitable.

But I guess so, yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, I'm sure like physically, I remember.

I'm sure we have listeners that are like screaming at their uh like phones right now. But I mean, I yeah, because it's like Patty Lapone is obviously a regular people don't know her, don't know who she is. Ye, it's not what Bob's saying. It's not like who do you think. It's like people don't know her. Yeah, if you could put someone they don't know, Kristin Chenowith too, is like, I mean, you could argue Christian Chanowitz. She's done a lot.

I don't know, Casey, are you thinking you're moving your mic around? I feel like you're I think I think the answer is Lynn Manuel.

Oh but Oya should should? I should? I hit?

That?

Is it lip? That's just my recognize.

Yeah, that's a good question. He was in the New Mary Poppins. I mean, I'm just saying he does like stuff where he's on camera.

You never heard of it.

I think that could be he's like the Dick van Dyke of of Emily Blunts Mary Poppins.

But yeah, yeah that's good. That's not a bad one.

Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's an interesting and it is so funny because like some of these people are so well known and it's like, yeah, you wouldn't really know them unless you're like a Broadway person, you know.

Yeah that's what I mean, because I would I would maybe think of other but no, no.

No, well that's an interesting Yeah.

If you have your leave a comment on today's episode on Instagram in the comment section, let us know who you think, cause like I am wondering, like if Dina Menzel has the actual name recognition. If you went into like deep rural like America, And you said, do you know who Adina Menzel is? I think some people will go know and you're like, but have you seen Frozen?

Oh? Sure, she's the voice of Elsa.

Have you seen Rent, she's the voice of Maureen, you know, or she like if you if you've heard Rent or whatever? Uh, but yeah, no, I think Lynn Manuel is the only uh the biggest crossover because of Malana and just Hamilton did something to Broadway that probably Wicked maybe did, but.

I don't know. I was in high school. I wasn't like thinking about this in high school. I was just yeah, Wicked was like Wicked was like.

You waited in the lottery, you really wanted to get into the Wicked lottery or whatever, but like if you didn't get into the Wicked Lottery, like I ended up getting tickets like for cheap a few months later, you know what I mean.

Like Hamilton was like you could not.

See it for years unless you shelled out like a ton of ton of money. So Hamilton was something like kind of extraordinary. I'm assuming you know, but maybe some of our listeners don't know. Do you know who the producer of the Broadway show Othello is right now, it's enzal and.

J Hill Hall.

Is it Candy It's fucking candy Bird. Yeah, I mean, could she dominate more industries?

Yeah?

It was her time to leave. It was her time to leave Atlanta. She's too busy. But I want to go right into Atlanta. And yeah, oh my god. Devastating, it's a devastating it's heard of events upset once again. Real Housewives is in the true crime genre. Okay, So just to give everybody background, because I know not all of you are in our obsession that we are. Real house wass of Atlanta has had a bunch of regulars obviously for years. This year there was like a like

So there's new women on it.

And this new woman comes on and she starts tangling with an old an old cast member, an older cast member, not old in age, old in you know, seniority, Kenya Moore, who notoriously goes low.

This girl, Britt started out gotten.

It with Kenny, thinking I think Cynthia maybe had the right theory of like you having a perception of Kenya because of the show and her fame, and I feel like Britt was just coming reading into stuff through that lens and not being in reality because I saw Kenya maybe being a little petty, but like nothing to have warranted what you're about to say that Britt did.

Yeah, so that Britt did, or that Kenya did that Britt. Britt threatened her with guns. Britt said, I have my pistol on me, I have my fucking gun. I have guns and knives and I don't play. Oh. I didn't hear her say on me. I just thought she you're right, you should not threaten guns. I just did not have everything to gus at home that you can't. Yeah, they were at a state so they're at a dinner.

Guns is insane. Yeah, they're at a dinner.

They have a fight, and they and and Kenya start and this girl is just like, I'm leaving and starts walking out and she's yelling all this shit at Kenya and she says something like I have pistols, I have knives, whatever, and she's threatening. I never got the feeling that she had that stuff on her. I thought she meant like I have weapons in my arsenal and I'll come for you or whatever. I never I didn't think it was like a big threat. I thought what Kenya did was way worse, way worse.

Difficult to watch, yeah, stating to see it's like we're on the same page there, Okay, but Britt should have been reprim I mean Britt came to apologize like Kenya, I can't believe she did that. It's like, it's sad to see you kind of see this rage on her in a way of like just this anger. Where was she wasn't even thinking clear, like it was this huge event for her. Was like so Kenya so basically okay.

So but ken You ignores her, ignores.

Her, flatly, does not won't look at her, talks like over her, like yeah.

Because she already wanted to do this.

So then all of a sudden, Kenya starts doing a fucking speech britt the moment photo. I don't know if the photos came whatever. Brittany actually leave, britt. I don't know why keep calling our Brittany. She's never said it was Brittany. So so britt leaves. Kenya has three rounds of like blown up photos. Who printed those on like foam core.

We're talking like you're trying to get extra credit for the high school presentation. Foam core photos printed that Bravo has blurred out, like we can't even see these photos.

And one is of this woman sucking a dick.

But what people have said was like, but if it's on the internet, then like who cares if it's public and you show it, and I'm like I was before I watched it, I go, okay, maybe like if you did poor that's not I thought, like Cynthia Pore, everyone left. The vibe shifted. She did a terrible call. She got everybody's attention.

It wasn't like she was just like girls, look at this stuff that I found of her on the internet.

This is the girl it's coming for me, she blew it.

Oh stop the grand opening of this salon that matters to her, which I feel like, you're also that's like they're always talking about being classy and versus trashy, and I'm like, girl, don't do this at your thing. But how many fights on the Real Housewives franchises have there been where there's stuff that's like but it's on the blog? So who cares if I talk about it? And they're like, it's different when you bring it to a national stage, when you bring it to a television show, you know, Like,

It was nonconsensual.

She took these explicit photos and the reaction of her co stars is what's very telling. But should she have been fired? Like is that worse than physically assaulting people? Pulling post what we've seen before, beating the shit like fully going to prison for defrauding people? Like I don't know what what what are the rules? Because was she fired that day or did they edit her out from the rest, I don't know.

I have no idea I remember hearing about this when it like happened like through you know, blogs or whatever and instagrams, but I don't remember.

I don't know what the timeline was.

But literally, I think that they might be thinking about the premeditation of it. A ponytail poll when you've been drinking for hours and you're fighting with each other, and that's kind of like a little bit of the premise of the show is that there's all these interpersonal dynamics that's one thing, researching and blowing up and calling attention. Like they might think, oh, well, she like fully premeditated this. This wasn't something she did off the cuff, like in a moment of passion.

You know.

I'm just I mean, like we separated for crimes. You know, there's no she was She didn't take the apology.

She just wanted to do it and there was nothing stopping her and she felt in the right and she went too dirty and too low. Yeah, I can't believe she like fucked up her legacy for this off for this new girl.

But I hate when the new girls come in too strong too.

I do too, But it's like they be like it was barely I don't even know what started it?

Was it asking about the wedding ring? I don't even know what started it?

Yeah it was, and maybe she was being like a little not not friendly, but like Britches was so like Bob, Like I think she was coming from the lens of like Kenya, this is Kenya, Like wasn't seeing her as who she was?

Yeah, and then but she fed into it.

But again also I think those girls want to get into a fight quick so that you know they've got something going on on the show, you know.

So yeah, I can't wait to talk to my friends. Soon before it came out, we're like, whatever, the photo's already out, because once you see it, it's like pretty uncomfortable.

It's really uncomfortable, Like people are leaving in droves like it, and every confessional is like, girl, what are you doing? But do you want to talk about, uh, the finale of White Loaded.

Yeah, let's do White Lotus and then we'll get right into SVU, right, Okay.

So.

Spoilers coming.

Okay, We're just gonna talk about the finale of White Lotus if you want to press fast forward.

But you know what, like last season when people were like, oh, but this is that Mike White was like, yeah, it's pretty obvious what was going down, Like I made it clear these were like people trying to kill you know. He's like, yeah, I don't know why people are like, oh, it's a mysteries, like I make it so obvious, and because I think that's one of the things the complaints was like, ah obvious, and it's like yeah, I don't think he's like shut up.

Yeah.

He also went on Howard start.

He's like, I guess people don't like this one as much, like really self aware. I'm like obsessed with Mike White, but I liked it. I'm sad I want more. I would watch the show for twenty eight episodes every year for eight years, Like I don't know. I say, I'm sad it's done. I hope we get more, and I think there is I read somewhere there's a four. I mean, it would be crazy if they did it. Yeah, but I heard it's not going to be a beach. So I actually watched like a reel that was like where

Thing, a skie or something. Yeah.

Yeah, so I mean cool, I will follow him anywhere. I'm like obsessed. Yeah yeah, No.

I loved the season. I thought that it was really dark.

It was like really ominous, like more so than past seasons. Like but yeah, the end was like wild, Like it was really just about how people like make all these different choices that are you know, not who you.

I don't know you.

There were people that I was like, oh, I didn't want to think that's like who you were, but like it does people do make choices kind of based on Lenny and all kinds of like guy talk.

Like Belinda, you know, like.

Because at the end of the day, Greg didn't kill Tanya. Yeah he didn't do it. So it's like at the end of the day, it's like murder.

Why why the fuck was I so scared of carry the shiny.

Shady And maybe he would have and he didn't, like like I don't think he's a great guy, but or it's like.

He knew they were they were divorcing.

He knew that they were like getting they were leaving each other, right, weren't they breaking up and he still took all the money.

Maybe that's what's bad about him. I don't know, but that's there.

You know.

She's like, this is hush murder money and it's not. Yeah, and Aria is an alibi to be honest, he was at the hotel.

I forgot where he was.

But yeah, yeah, yeah, Like I can't believe it's even like a mystery. Didn't they find all the other gays that were trying to murder her, like in the boat?

Well, oh, you know what, it might be unsolved. We just saw what happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, like it could be we yeah, the cops could have not solved.

But you're right in terms of like in terms of the like moral conundrum of it. We know what happened. So I don't know why I'm even mad at Belinda. I was like, Belinda sold out for the money. It's like, no, she didn't, she didn't.

It's also fine, what what she needs to be murdered to have ethics?

Go fuck yourself.

But also I I don't like that they're trying to make it seem like she's doing a poor chai, which Tanya did to her it's like so different.

It's so annoying. I hate this. Yes, it's like such a trick. It's so annoying, and maybe it's a tinger, you know, it's like a thought, and I'm happy to have a discussion. But it's not the same. And I'm annoyed actually that people think it is. It's not the same. She turned into Tanya. This guy fucked her then brought up starting a business.

Yeah, one day they hoped up on and she didn't seem like she was into the idea even when he first brought it up. And I don't even think he knows she has all this money, so it's not like it's like the power balance. Even though the power balance is that we know it's there, it's not there for him.

So it's different.

No.

I love what her son was like the spot and she goes, can I just be rich for what a minute? Five minutes? Yeah?

Like sother fucker. But I love Zion.

I also love the moment of if that therapist just talking like why couldn't she see that Greg was in crisis? That that Rick Rick? Yeah, why couldn't she see that Rick was in crisis?

Yeah?

Like I don't know, would you be like, Zion, can you just give me like ten this man? Yeah, it's crazed.

Yeah, and like yeah, right, exactly did you know that there was a cut scene where Piper and Zion hook up.

Yeah, I'm pissed. Yeah, I want more, That's what I mean. Why is an eight? Give me more? Yeah?

All the discussions, all the interviews are like, cause Carrie Coon did an interview that like so much was cut, that they had so much dialogue that was cut, and like there's all this stuff, and so to.

Me, I'm like, who is HBO? Could we just give us twelve episodes?

Why?

What's with the lippets? I don't get it. I don't you.

Guys were there for six months making this show, like give us ten, you know, like we could do ten.

I just don't get why you have to cut it like we're in, we are in, so like, yeah, I don't. I also love the end that the like the Russian dudes are right away with new women.

Yeah, and guess it's like that they just do this all the time.

I really loved and I loved I don't like that they soul from the thing, but I like that he didn't want to tell on them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't like I will say I didn't really love how the three women's storyline ended up, Like I didn't. I didn't think that Like I thought that there was gonna be a more honest, like reckoning in their friendship of like how they all feel about each other, which the penultimate episode kind of attempted and didn't really do.

And then the whole point though, is that they're just gonna all keep faking it forever.

No, they had this, They're gonna have this great last night, drunk, fun night, and they're gonna remember these good memories and then they'll see each other next year.

I don't know.

I don't know Mary Coon I thought her speech.

I was confused by the speech. I was like, these.

Women make you sad when you're with them, you feel sad about your life. I don't understand why that why you're just happy to be at the table, Like I thought, Carrie Coon's character was the most relatable character, was the most interesting character, and of the three of them, and she that was.

My big issue with Vulture this year.

All the recaps were like carry Kon's character is a fucking loser. It was like crazy they're like ugh, and she acted not and I'm like I always scroll through those comments and the people were with me of like, yeah, your take is actually really wrong, and Kate's like a mediac.

Yeah, like I liked what she was saying about. It's like, yeah, like we're just gonna gloss over the fact that Jacqueline absolutely did that on purpose to fucking spite you, Like she absolutely did the Valentine thing on purpose, like she did.

Kate is a full religious.

Trumper now, and you're going to gonna gloss over that, you know what I mean. And it's like that her superpower is her vulnerability, and in her vulnerability, she's just like I'm just like so happy to be able to even hang out with you guys. It's like what I loved, Like this the part I totally got, the part about like what is my religion? And it's not my business, it's not my daughter or child. Again, apparently there was much more fleshed out about her life at home that

I don't know.

I didn't like get the end of the and some people are like loving that I don't relate to.

I liked the speech because she's such a good actress, you know, like this girl was feeling it. And you know, I haven't mentioned Daniel Bayer Jackson for a while friendship expert, but her big thing is like you know, we we really like idolize or like think highly of long term friendships or relationships, but like time doesn't mean they're functional or positive or non toxic, you know what I mean?

Like, right, you.

Could be friends from someone from high school or grade school for forty years and never change same patterns do all this fucked up shit? And I think that's what this is showing, Like even when we were like married fifty years and it's like, okay, but how long have they lived in different wings of the house, Like what are we actually celebrating here? And so I think this was a more realistic showing and how people don't change in like how to her time. Time is what she

Like, oh, reminds me of my friends, Like do not be friends?

Like that is not right, that's not being Carrion was gonna be like that your president saying like you should not want your friends, like you shouldn' want to even talk about your friends like that or to do those things like it's all psychotic.

But I think it's I think it's real.

I also think he took inspiration from the Real Housewives to create these women, and that is a real housewife trope of FLI conflict, conflict, toxic, toxic. And then they have one drunk night and they're topless in the pool in Turks and caicos and their friends again and they cry and hug at the reunion.

It's like very housewives.

I think it's really realistic, and I think I think people were more into it, and even I was and teared up because it's her performance.

I agree, she's a great actress.

I just thought, like the character like this woman, Like I thought she was going to be like make a change. Like I just thought she was going to be like I love that, I love you guys, but like this is my last trip with you, like or something like that, Like I can't just keep being on these trips with you where I feel like shit the entire time, you know, Like I you know, I thought that that was going to be her character led me to believe that there was going to be a different outcome, and I guess

She was saying. He and he asked, like do you think these women? Do you think Kate likes these women? And she goes, yeah, it's like all she has Like to her, it's this real friendship, like she does love them, you know, And I feel like that might be somebody

To me, seems like the kind of person her character, not her. Kate seems like the kind of person that is friends with Jacqueline cacause she's famous and is friends with Carrie Kuon because it makes her feel better about her life. Like, not that she loves them and that loves spending time with them. They have completely different ideals

Because I think she laughs depth.

Yeah, I don't think it's as calculated as you're making it seem. I think she just lacks depth or like she doesn't know herself. She doesn't go deep with herself, so why would she go deep with others?

She doesn't.

Wait, I don't think that she's a surface. I don't think she would say the things I'm saying. I think those are the reasons, though, like I don't think she would say it out loud and be like, well, I'm friends with this girl because she's an actor. But I think ultimately that is why she likes hanging out with Carrie Koon and Jacqueline.

Yeah.

The other thing the internet said, I don't really care, but what they wanted more of the interaction between Parker Posey and like Leslie Bibb in that first episode or second episode at the breakfast table.

So you've obviously been all over the internet, so maybe you've heard this, but there's there's this theory that Parker Posey knows the entire time, She knows about the money and all that shit the entire time, and she's already moved money to the Caymans because I guess she brings up the Caymans a couple of times, and you know, the Caymans is where people like launder their money because you can't like get it, you can't can't get touched.

By the US.

And that one of the reasons why, Because to me, Parker Posey is the kind of person that even if she didn't remember Leslie Bibb's character. She would have gone, oh, it's great to see you, you know, like she would have still done a little high high high. I mean, she's out here partying on boats with guys she thinks are disgusting old men, married to two young women. She's not exactly like too good for certain people in this like on this trip, but she won't give Leslie bib

Where we are. That's this a theory.

This is a theory that she doesn't like getting recognized because she doesn't want anyone to clock where she is because they've already moved money and she's you know, it's.

A good theory. Yeah, it's interesting.

I just wonder how if she could have hit it like that for so long.

I mean, I mean people want bin off. She's sociopathic, Like, yeah.

The next thing needs to be she's like her, I need her post the blow up of what happens. But oh my gosh. Anyway, let's start right. Okay, We've got a great episode for you guys today. As usual, you can go to That's Messed Up Live for some of our merch that's on sale.

Our coupon codes.

You can go to Lisa's website that takes her to all of her tour dates and YadA YadA.

Let's get going.

Okay, we will be doing a brief interlude today which kind of sounds like a song, but it's not. It's a nightmare. Season fourteen, well it actually starts with some music.

Okay.

Season fourteen, episode twenty three, Michael Jordan. We're at a concert. Violin violins and weird shaped guitars, so it's very google bardello, fun funky folk vibes.

I was googling it to see if it was them, Like, I was like, this has to be them, but it's not.

But I thought it was. Yeah, they have more funky. There's like an old man there in the band, wildly bellied dancers. In the bathroom, a woman's putting on lipstick and then another woman is kissing her, gives her a pill and she's like, oh my god, another one, but she takes it. The concert is kicking up, but never mind, it's actually intermission. He will be right back this like, you know, this weird shape guitar guy and he tells

It's a little boat.

She's in a little rowboat, and the mom calls the cops. Benson arrives in a blue trench and straight hair, and Tomorrow is there with a tie and information.

The boat.

It's a white Jane Doe, torn clothing, non responsive but alive, thank god. Blunt forces, trauma to the head, bite marks on breasts disgusting, and then unfortunately we have bruised thighs, scrapes on knees, no wallet, no phone, no jewelry, just a rowboat outside Gracie mansion.

And we learned later that's like where the mayor lives.

So interesting when we got to find out who she is and where she floated from.

So the credits begin. Craigan's on the case.

He's like, my ears are ringing, Gray c manson, we need to move fast. We got to find these two teens that were digging in her pockets. So we're going we have to talk to the jogger mom. We have a classic trench rollins bench and a scrunched up face fin and then Mom is like, oh, those boys wouldn't have attacked her. And Ronind's goes those boys you know them, and she goes, well, no, but I see them. I mean I sort of know them. Okay, bitch, it's like

It's a lot not good.

Her princes aren't in the system, and nobody with her description has been reported missing in the last forty eight hours.

Warner arrives.

She says it's for sure a sexual assault, and Omar I was like, wow, okay, Warner's working fast, and Benson's like, yeah, there's a half naked woman. So she washed up in the Mayor's mansion. Everyone's working a little bit fast. Melinda's in a suit, which I don't know. I just need her in a morg outfit. I really don't like her outside the morgue. It makes me uncomfortable. And she had a pop like a lip color. I wonder if she

This is so of the time.

I feel like Desperate Housewives did, like a whole storyline about how.

What's her fucking name?

The actress who the city Huffman, Felicity Huffman's character like is abusing her children's adderall and stuff like that.

This just feels very of this exact time period. So I've never.

Watched the show, but for some reason, my YouTube shorts. Algorithm is just clips from house Gray's Anatomy, other medical shows, nine shows. I've never seen any actor from and Desperate House Desperate Housewives, And my question is it's only mostly Able Longoria. But it was her character just out of her mind. She was just like shopping and crazy and just.

Like like a complete cartoon character person. Yeah, like cheating on her husband from the minute it started, but then like yeah, also spending his money crazy, Like yeah, she's a full cartoon character person. But I think it's like going off the algorithm that you like Housewives, so you might like Desperate Like you know, you might like Dust, Women who Kill or Why Women Kale shows up like and then you watch SVU, so you might like nine

But that's what it's like. I had.

I brought a friend to soul cycle and they were like, oh my god, everyone looks the same.

I got yeah, yeah, yeah, it's in Lulru's but whatever.

Rollin's arrests Jasper immediately. The other one tries to run and Finn runs right into him and where it's me room bars. Quickly, Finn and Rollins are with gray Hoodie, which is non Jasper, and he's like, no, it's not drugs, it's prescription, and they're like, babe, it's a controlled substance. Like we're not blaming semantics here, we're in cement room bars.

This is serious.

He blames Jasper for everything we cut tomorrow and Benson with him and he puts this all on Todd and you know, and then he goes old money. So this guy, I guess is old money. And Benson's like, oh, so you just do whatever the rich boy says. And he told you to rape the woman and he's no, no, no, no no. We saw him floating. Todd wanted to check her pockets, so I don't know, there must be making a comment about old money and picking for pockets, like

Yeah?

So we cut Yeah, why would you go to a boy I just can't even imagine. I can't understand this at all, rich or not rich? Why are you diddling with a dead person brant or breathing slowly?

So whatever?

We cut to the white boy rich and he's like, do I look like a drug dealer? Because Jasper's black, So he's doing that now. So he's a terrible friend on top of all of this. And fing goes, no, but you do look like a fucking rapist, and he gets nervous and he's like, whatever, I just wanted to go through her pocket, so I'm a good guy. And he took lipstick and loose change and he was gonna give it to his mother, Like, what the fuck is going on with this guy? Whatever, But they did find

We go to the room.

The hotel manager is nervous and annoying and asking questions. This actor did a great job, but like he's just concerned about the wrong things and he's annoying the shit out of Benson, and they're like, go get the security footage and phone logs, you dumb bitch. And they go into the room. Amaro and Benson enter. They're like, this place is a mess. This must have been ransacked. But I'm like, this is how I live my life in hotels too. I was like, this looks totally normal, honestly.

They're doing fake stuff.

They're saying MP three's this is definitely a season fourteen. But they're going through her photos and Facebook. There's music tagged places. They also find the security frontage and someone five hours after she was found was in there, but he's dressed for surveillance cameras, so he's fully hidden and

And he can't, Casey, I thought of you, And he can't really like pinpoint where exactly he was he or where anyone was He's like, there's a couple dozen shows in the city, back to back.

It's a whole worldwide festival. It could be anybody. He says, I don't mean to seem rude, but she seemed like a groupie in search of a group. So now we're suddenly at PS twenty seven in a school talking to a principal guy and he's like, yeah, another parent gave him the number to me. She had a lot of questions. She was thinking about moving here and putting her sons

He's like that, we've met. She seemed sweet.

He knows nothing else except that she worked for music and didn't even tell him why she was thinking of a movie. She she just but she did only talk about her sons, not her husband, not once. So Amorrow meets with Benson in the morgue like fuck, we are zero and five. No one knew what she was up to,

Hugely possible.

Yeah, so you know, from the outfits to the plans, she wants to you know, have a good time.

But Ring Ring.

The family's on the way to the hospital. They have to go talk to the husband. So Benson and Tomorrow meet the family in the hallway. The boys are sweet, and the dad we actually know it's actor Richard Thomas who was in the episode Scorge Scourge. Yeah, he had syphilis brain raw and been working since the Waltons and so, and now he's here. The boys go to see their mother and Benson holds the husband back and explains, like, just heads up, she's very badly her but they want

The little boy as a bowl cut.

Benson feels for everybody, and now we're in the cafeteria has been in Tomorrow. It's a dire situation. The brain pressure the rape. It's all a lot, and Amaro's like, well, you know, does she know anyone here?

Was she in contact?

And He's like you don't you think it's someone she knows, like to me, not a stranger, Like I can't imagine that. And Amaro's like, well, did you know what she was doing here? Any details? He's like, no, she was just gonna go to concerts. And every time we video conference, we mostly talked about the boys. Omaros asks if they were on good terms and he hesitates, but then he does answer yes, and he's like, well, this is what she called an adventure. She wanted to go on an

He's like, is this true?

And Benson's like, they're just trying to sell papers, like you know who your mom is, don't let anyone fuck with you. And oh my god, who do we see at the hospital gift shop? The sound engineer, So you know he's startled by seeing the detectives.

Can I just say the sound engineer's name is Phil Disapio And did that sound familiar to you at all? Because Kim Rollin's lawyer is named Lorenzo D'sapio.

Oh my god, And.

I looked it up and it's the same last name, just there's an extra he and Lorenzo D'sapio, And I'm like,

Yeah, damn, I did not catch that. That's really funny. It's just a wild last name, like it's not like it's Smith.

Anyway.

I wonder if it was like an inside joke in the writer's room, like a shout out to some baby being born or something like I wonder or some twins because that I didn't realize.

Same season.

Yeah, but anyways, the sound engineer wanted to see Ariel. He has flowers, nobody likes him, no one likes his energy. Rollins goes family only and so the hands off the flowers. He's not gonna fight this, and he leaves Amorrow's with the dad who's like, she does not dress like this in Canada, you know, like she got these clothes here and the husband saying I'm down with all this. And finally Amorro's like, well, we saw the emails and we

She's thirty two, like she has like a one of those kids is like ten, I think, so like she started early, Like this guy got her young way.

He's like famous, but a celebrity in Edmonton. You know, what are you gonna do?

Blinded by the glitz and glamour of Western Canada.

Yeah, Like I saw a TikTok that some people it's like called a hospice wife. Like once dudes hit fifty something, they're like, oh, I need to go find someone to take.

Care of me. Oh yeah, dangerous. Don't do it. Don't do it.

That's like the last episode of White Loveists where she's like, I can get you a different man. Why are you with him? I know, I mean perker Posy is so good and funny. I like right now people that questioned her accent, like people in North Carolina are giving postits of the sayings to people they know, and they sound exactly like they gnaw me.

Yeah, like they do sound wild down there.

I also liked her like we need Jesus to help her from Buddhism, and it's like, in the name of Jesus has done worse things for our planet and humanity than I don't. I haven't heard of one Buddhist bad time. Yeah, I really are Buddhists out there starting wars.

Note for more Land, they're not. They're not because it's no violence. It's not don't commit violence in the name of Buddha. You're not supposed to commit violence in the name of Jesus either, but no one listens to that.

You know, Okay, we're back. She married an old man.

He's like, you know, she should have friends her own age and he's like, Okay, do you know any of them? And he starts going through photos and he does recognize one of the musicians in the photos. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he came to Edmonton last year. She went to the concert. We go to Santiago morales Is Loft. It's very artsy. We're in Queen's Rollin's and Finn are on the case.

Let us in. So they're in red walls.

There's drums and he's like, yeah, she interviewed me for something and then came to one of my shows.

That's it. And there's another knock on the door.

Finn opens it and it's the woman from the concert that from the start of the episode. Then Rollins removes the wig and it's actually mister Landry from PS. Twenty seven, so wow. And then Finn goes small world.

This is like a wild reveal because like, yeah, I saw the woman in the beginning, like dancing, I saw them walk in and go are you ready to go? I didn't even I didn't clock that it was the guy from PS twenty seven. I mean, I didn't meet him in real life, Rollins did, but she like just grabs that that wig snatch is wild.

Yeah, it's like a really good twist. And he's like, it's not what you think and Finn's like, yeah, I got that.

I couldn't have thought this up.

So there's a stare off, there's tense music, and we're at corkboard time. So Santiago has Ariel's iPad in the loft with the photos from that night and he's like, well, she loaned it to me, which no one believes, and that makes absolutely no sense. And Craigan's trying to push this crime on the father and Omar was like, Craigan, you need to sit down and take a break because he was in Canada the whole time and he's holding.

On by a thread. Okay, So who is this Charles Landry guy? You know what I mean?

They say he's married straight, but like s the party in women's clothes and the DNA is a match to the saliva found on the neck, which we know because we saw them, you know, him kissing the neck earlier in the show. We saw them getting close okay. So Finn and Tomorrow are with the musician guy and he's like, listen, I went to get the iPad because once I saw the story on the news, I couldn't let these photos

Yeah, it seemed like she was just like Okay, I think, like hooking up with two people on her dance floors maybe too much for me.

And I'm like a mom of two and I'm married, and she just.

Like left, you know, yeah, we need proof she left without you. And he's like, oh, well, we got another girl. And so they found another girl quick. Her name's Gabriella. Then they say that they went back to her place, and he's like, if my school or wife find out about the Yeah, they're doing like the back and forth between musician guy and you know Charlie.

So they're going back to two cousins just meet women and hook up with them together.

Interesting while one of them's in women's closed.

Yeah, yeah, it is weird, and I like the they're really like brushing over the cousins of it all, like yeah, as it being more normal than it is. But Charlie's like, if my school or wife find out my life is over and rollins and Benson like, okay, well, then be honest with us. He's like, okay, well we all met at the FOD lounge and he also has the same iPad story of like we needed those photos.

He is shocked about the brain bashing.

He swear, he swears he didn't do this, and he's like, maybe we pushed her too much and out of her comfort zone and I apologize and that sets Benson off and she goes apologize for what and he's like, when she realized I wasn't who I said I was, and you know, she felt betrayed, and they let her go, and he's like, well, I can't run in heels, because they're like, why would you let her just run off like that and distress and he's he can't, you know, he's not that good in heels. So another team and

I don't know, very lucky, his rope guy. He's referenced this man before. Oh, his rope guy, which is so funny. And CSU calls him the renaissance man. So he has a lot of different little skills and trades. And he starts talking tides and I stop listening, you know, water paths.

I don't know what to tell you.

But we get to where she was probably dropped off into the boat, and they searched surveillance video around there, and there's a car following behind her and oh, I think we know that truck. We just saw that fucking truck and a drum roll, it's the sound engineer. So they're like, you fucking lie to us, and you better start talking. We're in cement room bars duh with Finn and Rollins and he's like, I thought it would look bad and it's like, yeah, picking her up at night

He's like, I wanted to see if she.

Was okay, and they're like what to finish the job and he's like, I did not hurt her. So they bring up that they have DNA evidence from scratch marks, and you could see he gets squirmy, and so then they pull up his sleeves and there's scratch marks there and they go, oh, so she fucking scratched you. He goes, it's a misunderstanding. I was helping her. I mean, this

I wonder why you're a jealous girlfriend, because you're randomly kissing girls.

Then she wanted to go to the river, and he tried to stop her, and she pushed him away and scratched him and then went into the park.

He goes, listen, there's going to be no saliva.

She said, no, I just didn't want to go into the park at night, and she ran off without me.

I didn't do anything bad. And now he's invoking his rights. He wants a lawyer, and that obviously makes you look even worse. So they leave the room. But it is something we should all be doing. So they have a full team meeting and they're trying to figure out if he did it or not. And you know, him lying is a big red flag, but we need some more evidence or witnesses. So they asked the husband about this man, and all he knows from the wife is that he's

Damn?

And then he goes the tabloids have been so mean and crazy about her. It's a mess. And now we have security footage from the diner and they sat there for over an hour meal, talking whatever, and then as they exit the diner, there's fuck a long haired man standing by the diner who looks like he is homeless, and maybe it's him, but she hands him food, and then we also see the truck, but we don't have footage that we're getting back into the truck or him at the rowboat.

So what are we going to do next?

So suddenly we go talk to this sex worker with one fake leg and she's from the Steve episode of Sex and the City if you remember her. She has red hair and a limp, and they're asking her for help and they're like, do you know this guy? And she does and they're canvassing the park and there's a different man who lives in the park and he has this one of her scarves and.

They're like, how you have this?

And he goes, oh, this he helds for a different park resident, and he's like, this guy gave it to me. And then the homeless man from the diner turns around, sees you know, the cops are there, throws a garbage bag at them and starts running. They don't have a hard time catching him. He's not moving fast and they're like, where did you get this scarf? He goes, I didn't do nothing. He has hippie beads. He's a big guy, beard,

I thought it was like she was gonna blink awake, and that's not the story.

Yeah, So the husband thinks that she held on until they caught the right man, and they're having a really hard time as a family. But on her phone they find video messages to her family.

So it's her walking by the water. It's a late night and it's just a video chat.

She goes, I know it's late, I'll at two in the morning, but everything's fresh in my brain. I just wanted to thank you for trusting me to take this trip on my own. She's like, you're such a good man and good father and I was always love you, and he smiles. He has tears in his eyes. So there's a section for the boys, so Wayne and Grant come in and she says, boys, I'm coming home tomorrow night. I've had a great time, but I can't wait to

Well baby, I got tears. I teared up at this end message.

It was so sad, so sad, such a sad up And guess what the sadness is going to keep on coming because this is very much based on a real thing that happened.

Our podcast Sadness guaranteed.

This episode is based pretty closely on this case that happened in twenty thirteen, like five months before this episode came out.

Some news reports are calling her Sarai.

But if I think in if it's she has a Latin background, then it's Sarai.

So I think she's Sarai.

Sierra, who was a thirty three year old mother of two sons from Staten Island who was visiting Turkey. She was in other parts of Europe as well, but she was in Turkey and January of twenty thirteen by herself. This was her first trip ever abroad, and she was doing it to practice photography, which had become a hobby of her. She'd also gone back to school and was like in between, she scheduled this in between semesters. So this is like a girl that's like, you know, out

There's even like iPad phone stuff.

And he said he did not realize that she was even a foreigner until he saw all the media attention, you know, to this missing American tourist. When her body was discovered, he was only a few yards away, so he was it happened like kind of near probably where he was living or staying, but he was right there basically when they found her body, and he told prosecutors

Really remember doing it.

So a year later after her going missing, in January of twenty fourteen, to Sally was sentenced to life in prison. He also received five and a half years for sexual assault and two and a half years per theft to run consecutively to the life sentence, which is, according to Reuters, so a very sad story that they very much borrowed from. I mean, she had two young sons, just like this woman in that, just like Ariel, and was just kind of trying to go on an adventure by herself.

So sad, so sad, But we have.

A delightful interview to cleanse the palette of sadness, So do not go anywhere. Our guest today is a Broadway Royalty baby.

We started this.

Episode talking about Broadway and we're gonna finish it talking about Broadway. She originated the Broadway roles of both Barbara Maitland and Beetlejuice and Penny Pingleton in Hairspray. She can also be seen on TV shows like American Sports Story, Aaron Hernandez and The Gilmore Girls Revival and you know her best as the Tragic Canadian Podcast. Are just looking to have some fun in New York City, Ariel Randolph.

Not that it's not great, it's just that, you know, I'm used to doing TV shows where like you look, even though you're a real person, you look like semi glamorous, and I'm always like, oh, I I gotta do my.

Social media today. I'm looking great. But on.

Law and Order they specifically said, you know, like, no, we can't wipe the mascara from your eyes. You know, They're like no, we want, we really want, like hardly any make up your hair. I didn't have like a blowout, you know. It was very kind of like just down and back and.

Yeah.

Yeah, but even like more natural than most TV shows.

Yeah, because you've done other crime style shows. You are you saying that Law and Order you is they want you looking the worst.

Like a blood exactly. I think sometimes those shows they still want you to.

Look like TV star kind of you know, and Law and Order they specifically like, no, no, no, no, no, we can't make you look glamorous. Yeah, I'm like, can't you just get the circles under my eyes?

I mean, you look caught at the beginning of this episode, when you're at the concert, you're having fun, you look good.

And then I was I've been on two Law and Orders. I wasn't sure which one you were talking about.

We're going to talk about both, Yeah, okay, but we're going to start with talking about.

Uh, that one, that one I was more that one. I was more glamorous than the second one.

I was a big But then at the end when you when you have this video message to your children, I remember thinking when I was watching it, I was like, can they just wipe the eyeliner, like what, she looks like she's been crying.

But you know, I.

Thought I got it because it's like you were on Mollie, you had this like incredible experience realizing that you loved your family.

I mean, it's a really sad episode. It's so sad. It's really sad. I know, it's so sad.

When I watched your next one and was like, oh, it's awesome, worse, it's the worst of all time, I would say, and I for some reason last season I never had seen this episode and it was so it was like probably the worst, one of the worst I think in the twenty five year history now twenty six year, but like.

Worst in terms of being the saddest in terms of it's me for life.

Yeah, great, great.

The acting was great, everything was really great, but the directing amazing.

My stomach was dropped. I was tense the whole time and just like it really it was really upset.

It really upset me too.

I have two daughters, and I was like, I just I can't even go there, you know what, I as an actor, my god, yeah, and I'm like no, no, no, I'm not gonna go from my personal experience. I'm gonna, like, you know, just pretend I'm somebody else and in the situation.

And I was fully tearing up in the in the video message to the Suns when they're watching it. I was like, oh my god, I should make a message for my kids in case I die. Like it was like, so, oh my god, Oh yeah, great performances, very emotional. So where did you go because you were very I mean you were shaken up and it was just like a great performance.

So what did you use since you know no real life do you mean for you mean for the with the boys or with the second I know.

We're going back and forth. I would say the second episode is what I'm thinking.

The second episode was the worst because the second episode.

Was Rishka meets you at that bar. Yeah, it was like you were so fucked up, uh over it?

Yeah.

I kind of rather than thinking about it happening to my own daughters, I kind of was thinking we were at the same time, and not to get political, but it was the things happening to the hostages, and I could just drop into that, like just imagine, you know, you're seeing all of these stories about people losing their families and so it's hitting you on a personal level just that it's happening, and so I kind of could draw from that more so than imagining it happening to

Then, because it's like you can't leave it. I don't know how Marishka does it, you know, And.

She's so happy on set and she's amazing to be around. But to do that all the time, that's what I left thinking. I'm like, wow, I admire her so much that she's commonly.

Just like a compartmentalization queen, right like just can totally maybe.

Like as soon as we as soon as the scenes were over, she was able to, you know, make jokes, make us have fun on the set, because otherwise how are.

You going to get through it?

Yeah, those long days and joking with the crew, Yeah damn.

But she also your character in Again the more recent one, yea detached when she was like, oh, she said she's at her friend's house.

Yeah, yeah, I think that was That's normal. Yeah, that's normal because you just you don't want to go there. Everything's okay, everything okay. Yeah, course you always you obviously think like, oh my god, what happened to her friend? Right, you know, you don't think that something could have happened to your loved one.

But I'm just like children in the park after dark, get out of there?

What are you doing?

But also just the what also grabbed me about that episode is like what would you do if your friend Because in my head I was like I think I'd run and try to call the police. But then it's like are you ditching your friend? So do you go and try to fight these people? And so that really made me feel a lot too of like be it like how much decisions this like scared girl had to make in the middle.

Of the night. Well, but she was there, she was held with them, right, so she couldn't go.

First she was frozen, like they grabbed one of the girls and then the other one stood frozen and then ran to help her friend.

Yeah, and then she had that really good monologue right about how she wished that she could do more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think when you're that young too, you know you it's you're so like frozen and frightened. It was very believable to me that she wouldn't know what to do in that situation. And in hindsight, it's so easy I think for us to be like.

Just call on one one, you know. And I think my character did say that too. I'm like, why didn't you just call on you know? Yeah, like and just getting angry at the victim in a way.

And yeah, I do remember that part, and I remember Mrishka like putting her hand on my That was when I think those scenes were when my maternal instincts come out.

How you can actually be.

Mad at your daughter for like, you know, you have all of this inside, like you're so relieved they're okay, but you've just been through this trauma and so it has to come out somewhere, so you're like, why didn't you you know? Yeah, and Rishia had that really good moment where she's like, Okay, calm down, you know.

Yeah, Well, we say on this podcast, there was a prosecutor in one of the cases and she said, we expect people to act normal and abnormal situations, and yeah, we keep that in our minds all the time of like why would yeah, why are you expecting someone act normal in this like psychotic situation that you should?

And people we recently talked about how like the four responses. We always talk about fight or flight, but there's also freeze and fawn. Yeah, and those are like I think happen more often than we think too, you know. So yeah, so this just for the listeners. What is season twenty five,

But yeah, like first it was, yeah, I think a lot of these we've seen a lot, so we're not as shocked. But I think I was like really shocked last night watching it too.

On top of it, and like they are on season twenty six, and I get that we can't just have like a totally fresh plot every time, so but this one is like Children of Wolves is like a combo of ones we've seen before with wildings or whatever, like you know, like guys that attack like as a group. But then also some of these like hostagey ones we've done. It's like a combo of two of the worst kinds

Well.

Also, I was also shocked when they had a hiss, they had a record when later in the episode they're like, these guys have been doing this for a while. Accept you because a part of me is like, oh, these tea like uh, I don't know, like a crazy like a fucked up teen night.

But it's like they were cereal rapists.

Yeah, And then I thought about, you know, the young girls playing those parts, Like I don't know if you've had them on, but that's got to be like really mentally challenging because those scenes were so hard.

Yeah yeah, yeah, I thought it was so interesting too how they made you her step mom, but you guys had this special relationship because you could have just been playing her mom, you know, like but her step mom and the dad is gone and you only.

Have each other.

Like it was it was like an interesting like twist of a relationship. Yeah, but we could go back to brief inter brief inure lude.

Brief inture lude.

That's your first time on SVU, right, is that your first time on a Law in Order?

Yes? Okay, so that's your first Law and Order?

And I believe is this Warren light Time season fourteen, because like, yes, yes, okay, because he's a big theater guy. You're a Broadway baby, so like, yeah, did they have you audition or did were they just like I did audition?

Okay?

And it's funny like after I did that episode, I don't I don't think I had. I had I didn't really have a scene Maia with Marishka. But after that, like years years later, I became really good friends with Marishka. Okay, I'll hear that, yeah, because our daughters were best friends in school. But so at that point, yeah, so at that point I didn't really know her. I didn't know her at all. And but I and I had to

And then were they like get in a rowboat, be dead. No, No, it.

Was just do the serious scenes and but it was you know, it's really a rite of passage for actors in New York. It took me a long time to get on. I was like, I finally made it. It's gonna be in the playbill now. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.

So you start, like this episode starts, you're at this like concert which like is like a Google bordello kind of group or whatever. They're like, you know, and is when you're shooting something like this. I don't know if I've ever asked a guest this before. Is the band playing a set? Like are they actually playing and you guys are like doing the dancing and everything, or like.

A dancing A lot of times we're not dancing to anything. Okay, they don't have I don't think they have the music rights yet, so sometimes sometimes we might be dancing something completely different if you see them, like their beat is so either either dancing in silence or dancing to music that doesn't is different than what ends up in the actual show.

Music was good, Yeah, it was fun. It was good.

Yeah, that that was really fun to do. I feel like that whole section like lots of extras and just having fun at the you know club. Yeah, at that show. I feel like all of those scenes were at night almost. Yeah, so all my calls were late and they were all really late nights.

Was that exciting? It was exciting?

Yeah, yeah, And we went I think one was the one, the last scene, you know, where I'm on the camera that was over by the Brooklyn Bridge and it was really late at night and I was holding the camera and then they had other people like filming around me too. But that was actually like, you know, me filming, which isn't like another kind of thing I've never done on.

TV, you know.

And that was even cell phones were big bad things. It was over ten years ago, right, Like I.

Was twenty thirteen when I came out, So cell phones were but everybody wasn't filming themselves all the time at that point, and so I certainly wasn't as used to it as I am now. Yeah, it's interesting because I I remember I was thinking that. I was like, oh, it's it's interesting she made like a little video message for her kids or that even Marishka g chats with the kids or not g chats, I'm sorry, facetimes with the kids, because I thought of it as more of a G chat time you know.

During so during that during that time of filming, you know, I was emotionally available, but I was had to be so specific about how I held the camera. Yeah, and so it was a whole other thing that I had to think about because.

You're shooting yourself and acting, I mean that's.

Yeah, and moving and we were like moving in there, this whole crew around me moving and it was the lash other day, and so everybody really wanted to go home.

Yeah, that was a little literal question I wrote on my thing.

I was like, did you shoot that?

Because I sometimes I think I wonder if they shoot it and then like degrade it to look like an ELM. But yeah, that was you the director, And that's like the heartbreaking part of it too.

You were in such a good place after such a great night and then this random.

Fucking at random act of violence. So how was it in the hot And.

I never got I never got any scenes with Richard Thomas, Oh yeah, your husband, Yes, And even when they like, you never got even like when they came into the hospital and you were like lying there, Oh, maybe maybe I was dead. So I didn't actually get to talk to him.

You didn't get to you didn't get to act to them, but now I was warning over your body.

Yeah, yeah, I was.

I was staying in character and just like going to sleep, do I.

Yeah, he's in another CLASSICSVU as well, so we yeah, I know.

Yeah.

And then I have I want to know about that rowboat scene, Like did they just throw you in a rowboat and push you up against the Like were they like, okay, we need you to like look a little bit more dead? I mean, how how did you like tell us about that scene?

Yeah?

That was so cool. That was right in Central Park. Yeah, and I'm like I made it. I died in Central and they kind of gosh, I don't remember it, but I kind of remember them like showing me exactly how they wanted my body.

You know.

So they got in the boat first and you know, definitely arranged you how they wanted to look. And again there I had to worry about not breathing obviously since I was dead, So that was the only.

Stress to work, yeah, or dying very light pulse, very light pulse at that time.

Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh. Yeah.

But it was fun too. I loved filing on location and it was fun to go into Central Park. You know, near the boat house, I know.

Where they're like tourists being like, yes, I've thought people were having their life. Can you imagine it was going to Central Park to go to the boat house and they're shooting us view would lose and.

They and there's a woman in a boat. Yeah.

Yeah, I kind of think that that particular scene was really really early in the morning. Uh so there weren't that many people, but whenever we were filming, there would always be people stopping to look.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, I had early in the morning because that's when the yoga mommy had to go get her adderall and that's when she found you with the guys.

Right right, right, So I think it like the first the first scene of the day.

Yeah, oh my god, amazing.

I actually have a question for the Sorry the Children of Wolve's episode.

How was it like, my radiator is going off?

If anyone is concerned at the moment, how is it like being directed by your friend Marushka?

Uh amazing?

Oh she directed that one. I didn't even notice that. Okay, cool, Yes, so she is.

That's what I'm saying about, how she's able to bring lightness to this really dark material and you know, she knows everyone. I mean, she's been there forever, but she knows everyone's name. She everyone, you can tell they love her. And also I would ask around, you know, to the drivers. They all love her there. They I mean, they cannot say enough nice things about her. And they would just tell me story after story about her. You can tell that the cruelest her. And it was just we had

In the moment. Yeah.

And then she's out of the scene and she's watching it play back, and she's so supportive. But also when it's your friend, then it's extra pressure because you're like, oh god, I don't want to let my friend down.

But she was so so supportive.

And lovely on the set, lovely to everyone, and you know, a true leader because obviously on this high pressure kind of show, people's egos get in the way right on the crew, and like one person wants to do it one way, one person wants to do it the other way, and then the director's job is to, you know, figure

What do you need? Then goes together, but what do you need?

So I feel like that is really leadership and directing, you know, just amazing people skills.

Yeah, that's what we've heard. We hear. We talked to a lot of people, and everybody loves her.

So I mean, like perhaps the most beloved number one in the business of all.

I think I think I think so, and I you know, I heard stories about her fighting for people, you know, frightening the network for people, and but I think when you talk to the crew and the crew loves her, and you know, they say, you know, she asked about my wife. You know, she knows about us. She knows our lives. That's the sign of a real, like really really good person.

And she's a big Broadway fan.

Yes, yes, yes, yeah she I feel like she'd maybe had seen me and stuff before, but then when our daughters became friends, then she you know, she would come to all my shows with her family.

And I love her husband Peter too.

Nay, yeah, yes, the nicest guy and so so. Yeah, she loves And she tells me that she goes to see shows a lot, and she tells me that is her out, that is what fuels her soul. That's how she doesn't get depressed by all of this all the time.

Yeah, that makes sense. But it's still like, you know, an acting thing. I like that her hobby is still really connected to her work.

Yeah.

I think she mostly I think she mostly chooses like comedies and feel good musical theater. Yeah, because that's the thing that she she needs more than well.

I have the same vibe as her.

That's what I'm usually going to uh huh, laughing and fun girls singing, I think.

Is my qualifications of shows. We had Alex Brightman on the pod. Oh yeah, you were Barbara in Beetlejuice.

Yes, I remember him telling me when he got that because we were doing Beetle Juice at the time, and he's like, so they just asked me to do this.

I was like, Oh, you're gonna have the best time.

So you've done like so yeah, like tell it. Like, we want to talk about your Broadway career besides Beetlejuice. I mean, you've done Hairspray, Little Shop of Horrors, Xana, do Rock of Ages, mean girls, You've done like a million shows.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've been really lucky.

I am living my dream. Yeah. Are you a too Broadway?

Are you doing anything like coming up or like finishing anything or like, what's what's going on?

This is fun?

You mentioned that I did Hairspray and I created a show with the other two women I did Hairspray with over twenty years ago, Laura Bell Bundy and Marissa Winoker, who also is a huge SVU fan, Like she is she is your audience, Like she watches every episode over and over again.

When I got when I got lown Arner, she was so so excited. Wait Laura, which one Larissa?

Oh, Okay, Marissa is obsessed and she's never been on so she has to I think because she's in la you know, and so I think that's why. But she is one of those people that watches them over and over again. So I created the show with them called Mama, I'm a Big Girl Now, and it's based on, you know, our friendship from when we did the show together and then becoming mom ourselves and kind of all of the shows we've done in between in our lives now. And

Yeah, we're traveling all over and so it's so fun.

Like just imagine traveling with your closest friends and getting to perform a show with them. It's in all of these like fancy places. It's so much fun, and the audience loves it, so saying yeah, so like Mariska, you know, loves theater. Like, we just wanted to do something that spreads joy.

At this time, you.

Know, we're like we're so needed, so down, we just need to spread joy.

That's it.

Well, this comes out in two weeks like the fifteenth, So I don't know, Okay dates, Okay, so then yes, yes, check out our website Mama and Big.

Girl Now and we have a bunch of dates coming up around the country.

Amazing.

Yeah, you can check out that like a three fur you can see three Broadway stars and one.

That's right, that's what we say. People pay for one Broadway start, they get three, get three amazing friends.

Yeah, it's really like it's really like girl power, motherhood, you know, all of that stuff.

Do you know my friend John Hill, he was in Hairspray. Oh you know John?

Oh?

I love John Hill. Yeah, we were best best friends with John Hill. Doraing Hairspray and John a photo of the Zoom then yes, yes, Oh my gosh, we all adore Jeh Hill. Marissa still like works with him on his show.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say, Like we worked together on something and he was always telling me about Marissa and like how he was in Hairspray and stuff. So it just it just like popped into me that he did Hairspray.

I forgot. I just saw him.

For the first time in face to face I did his radio show, and.

He is like really beautiful to look at. I was really it's.

Really the TV just voice that he doesn't use.

He does.

He gorgeous, he does, he does. He.

He just did my show recently doing like comedic songs.

And it was really funny.

He writes like these funny songs like I Know this Dog and whatever the hell else, but like so funny.

He's singing a little bit.

You know, Okay, good good, Yeah, to be so hot such a yeah, it's crazy, it's really nuts.

What's your dream theater role?

Well, gosh, I love creating new shows, you know. I've gotten to create so many new shows, so that's really my favorite. But my first show that he did in Broadway was Blood Brothers Anyone Anyway.

So he was from London and I was the understudy.

And now I am old enough to play like the lead, the mother role, and so that is one of my dream roles. Oh okay, And actually when I did so, it was my first show I didn a Broadway and I did it with the first cast from London. Then I did it with Sean and David Cassidy. Oh Carol King like was just the cast was just revolving stars. And I got my first ray show yeah.

So fun.

That's so I think that's so cool too that on Broadway it's like you're too young to play this role, like wait a little bit, you can play the the like the good part, you know, Yeah.

I know, I know.

It's like the only, only only kind of acting where you can actually have a career as an older woman.

I also saw in your Insta bio you teach Yes, is that something you a podcast?

Okay, tell us more.

I have a podcast called Breaking Broadway All four because the biggest question I get asked on my Instagram on this how can I break into Bride?

So I was like, you know what, I'm.

Just gonna put it into a podcast so then you can listen to it. And so it's fun. I, you know, interview people in the business and I try and find out people's rejection stories because I always find that to be inspirational. And then I introduce you casting directors and you know, just things to help people kind of anybody who wants to be an actor to make it.

I've been seeing a lot of these in my like for you page of girls that are like come with me on a day trying to get cast on Broadway. And it's like if they're not repped, they're just like I wake up at the in the middle of the night and I go into the city because I live in New Jersey, and then I sign up for an open call, and then I do the open call and that takes forever, and then I'll go and like you know classes, yeah, and then go this, and then I'll do this.

It's like it's a hustle.

Oh yeah, I know. I feel like if I had to do it now, I would not make it.

You know. It's just I mean to get up. That is dedication.

They really do get up at like four in the morning, sign in at five in the morning.

Yeah, so that you can like.

Maybe get plucked out to do the chorus or something, you.

Know, maybe or maybe maybe get the audition. They're going now really and they're not even getting teap to get the audition.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

I just saw Death Becomes Her on Broadway. That was the last thing I saw because I live in la also, so I don't see as much Broadway as I used to. But uh, like the chorus dancers were the sexiest people I'd ever seen.

I was like, these people are amazing.

Well, it really helped do that like cut out.

I just saw Glengarry Glenn Ross last night, Bill Burr. Okay, it was opening, yeah, yeah, okay, cool.

I saw some real carpet photos. Yeah yeah, yeah, it was exciting. It was exciting.

And what's your review. We can blurt, we can cut it out if you if it's not.

I loved it. I loved it. Yeah.

I thought it was great, really like great, great performances.

Bilbert.

I didn't really know him, but he was fantastic. I think he's the big surprise because people were like, he's a comedian and right, so they were like, none of us, Yeah, but he was.

He did great.

I think you said some acting role, you know, more and more, but this is definitely probably a new thing.

For He had a little part in Breaking but he had a little recurring part in either Breaking Bad or Better Passault, right, but he was on the King of Staten Island too.

He was sad and yeah.

But if you ever want to laugh, his special let It Go is like one of the best.

It's probably from two thousand and five, but it's oh, okay, okay, so fun.

You're in the mood, just laugh. Oh, speaking of comme, I'm a I was a big Mindy project. Girl, Will you tell us so was I?

Oh? Fun? Oh my gosh, that was That was a really really fun one to do.

I don't I think somehow I didn't even audition for that. They watched tape of me. I think that maybe the writers were fans of mine, which rarely happens, I know, And they were showing Mindy the like clips from Little Shop of Horrors, and they cast me as the Southern girlfriend. And it was so hard to keep straight face on that show because Mindy would improvise so much in the scenes and.

It was so funny. Like I remember there.

Being a bread basket on the table and when Mindy got mad, she was like, I'll.

Just I'll be taking these with me and just walks off with the bread. And that was never she never heard that.

She only did that for one take, or just like shoving the bread into her mouth.

It was. She's so funny. That was such a fun show to do.

Oh that's awesome and really also also really down to earth, really nice.

That's amazing, that's so fun.

The other thing I got from your Wikipedia was your husband is a muppet puppeteer.

Yes, yes, crazy, Yeah, my husband was on Sesame Street for over twenty five years. He was the head writer and he does the puppets and directs of the shows. But now he has left and now he's still doing puppets, but he's writing on different shows and trying to create other new kids shows and things like that.

But yeah, it was planning. Wait, that's awesome. Oh my gosh, well we love it's funny.

Yeah, we and we grew up down the street from each other, so it just happened that we both were in the in the business. But we knew each other from when we were just kids.

Wow.

I was I was Kim, he was Hugo and bye bye Bertie in high school.

Stop it. That is so cute. Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks for talking to us, Carrie. This is great.

Sure, thanks for having me so fun. Well, I mean that was a thrill.

And I always everyone I brought carry Butler up to couldn't believe that we talked to her. She really is a Broadway beloved baby, because people were even by acting coach he was like.

I love Carrie Butler.

Oh fu Yeah, no, she was great, And now we have to do that other episode she's in den of Wolt.

I mean, I don't know if we have to.

It's extremely disturbing, but we'll probably do it at some point. But yeah, oh my god, this episode, this true crime, it's so fucking crazy that women just can't be by themselves sometimes.

Without fear of murder.

Yeah, that's kind of what I took away from it, Like she with all the like hubbub of like her making out with the people, and the cross dressing principle and the podcast producer who's maybe a creep, it really was just she gave a sandwich to the wrong guy. And that's I talked about that on Ane, another podcast I went on recently where I was like, so many murders are I feel like they're just literally wrong place,

Well, Yeah, and to bring it back to the yoga beach though again is They also in the doc talk to people that escaped him really that were like, yeah, cause he targeted sex workers. So there were situations where like a girl was like I need to get the fuck out of here and was able to do that, like you know, and had a taser, had to fight them all like oh my god. But they were scared to go to the cops with information and they refused.

Right, Yeah, it's.

Just like it's all fucked up and upsetting as always. I don't know, it's so hard to always have a postmortem. I'm like, I know, it sucks, this sucks, It all sucks. What do you want?

Like, you know, the the men are out here doing bad things NonStop all the time, and then the people that are supposed to do their job to help are also doing bad things, and everyone's just doing bad things.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that's that. On that, I don't know what else to say. Like she shouldn't have given him a sandwich.

She should have been in Canada putting her kids to bed, you know.

Yeah, like whatever, why was she traveling alone?

I mean, but she must have been so fucked up because like that, like.

The teacher's wig was like not well done.

You know what I mean, Like when you see a dude in drag, like you could tell that's the whole thing, you know what I mean, Like if you see Tricksie, you're like, that's that's a performer around huh. So I just am like he wasn't even contouring, like he wasn't good at drags.

So it's like you really couldn't tell. Yeah maybe then drugs. Yeah, the ecstasy makes you have, you know, a little bit of blurry vision, I guess in terms of that.

But she could tell him didn't care. She's like a good person, But that didn't seem like the story.

Well isn't that why she left though, like because she figured out Yeah, but we you know.

That was like a plot hole for me because we watched them dance.

Yeah, maybe she grabbed his dick and like laughs, I.

Don't know, all right, Well, yeah, a sad one. I was definitely sad. We don't like, we don't like lose the victim, like that's been in the hospital. And I also like making videos like that. I make videos with that all the time when I'm drunk and having a great night. So now I'm like, Okay, I guess that's a jinx. And I can never memorialize a fun little video again. Every video you make, you have to be like, this could be what they play on the evening news.

If you can get into my phone.

Yeah, but you could write it with like a photo or something if anything happens.

Oh yeah, that's true. Good to know. All right, Well, let's move on to what would Sister Peg do? This week?

For what would Sister Peg Do, which you guys know, is our weekly segment where we direct you towards and organization, an article, a book, something to give you more info about what we talked about today. I wanted to look into, you know, women traveling solo. It's a huge thing. Women travel solo all the time. It's becoming more and more popular every year. And I wanted to just point you to this article titled fifteen Tips for traveling alone as

Yeah, stay safe everyone, And next week we'll be doing a lighthearted, charming episode. JK, we'll be doing Underbelly season eight, episode seven. We're obsessed with all of you. Thanks for listening. Stay alert, Stay alive, Stay alert, Stay alive. We finally have our own tagline to murder. Stay alert, be a bitch. Yeah, okay, sale alerts, Stay Alive, be a bitch.

It's all those.

Three that's messed up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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