Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.
These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done.
Done, Hello everybody, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
I'm Kara Klank and I'm Lisa Traeger. We talk SVU true crime. We have celeb guests up top. We catch up, we chit shot right now. We're also a scandabal drag race.
There's a lot going on. We also just hung out in New York together.
We just did.
I took Rosie on a little spring break trip to New York. We saw Lisa for a little pre Lion King lunch. Embarrassingly, she ran up to Lisa, gave her a huge hug, and then said, do you have a present for me? Because she knows Lisa gives her presence and so now that's the association.
Yeah, that is so I'm like, no, that's rude.
And then I'm like, but to be fair, Lisa is a big gift.
Giver, so.
I know, but I don't know what I want to It's gonna be a belated birthday present.
But I'm not. I haven't found.
Thee as belated as you want, because she's still like we had to take a separate bag back from New York, like that I did not bring there of like all the crap my mom gave her, my sister, my brothers, like everybody gave her stuff.
Yeah, because I was I found something on the line that I really like, but I'm not.
I got to think on its own.
Okay, okay, hold on, you guys got upgraded. You weren't laid down my lapbeds. How did Rosie like first class?
Well, of course it's like over her head, Like I kept being like, Rosie, we're going to get to sit in this special section of the plane where we get to lie down. She loved the lounge. She loved the lounge like she got to pick what she wanted to eat.
And then I got her lemonade. And then she saw this ice cream scoop station because it was Easter, they were giving out little ice cream scoops and cups with like toppings, and she was like a like and she could pick like she first she had a cookie because I didn't see the ice cream scoop station, and then she saw that and was like she just loved that, and she was having a ball at the lounge then on the thing to her, like a coach seat is like a lie out seat practically, I mean like she
doesn't care and she doesn't want to sleep, like I tried to get her to sleep so badly.
I lied our seats all the way down.
I've never flown Delta one, so it was like a real treat for me, and I gotta say, wow, that's really nice.
What did you eat ravioli or no, cause it's usually a mushirt.
They didn't give you a vegetarian option.
They didn't give me a vegetarian option, And so I picked this chicken thing and the woman goes, it's really easy to pick the chicken off, And when it got there, it was frozen solid, and I was like, forget it. I'm just not gonna eat. I just ate like the little snacks they brought by. And I had some sparkling wine, and I don't usually drink on planes, but for some reason,
when you're in Delta one, it feels right. So I had a great time, like just being able to like lie down and like have my back and but not hurt, like was so nice, and I totally get why people do it. I mean, I don't see myself doing it
again unless it's the upgrade situation. But basically what happened to everybody is they canceled my flight, and then when I called and I said, I'm traveling with my daughter, I really need to go earlier, they were like, okay, we actually were able to get you on Delta one for the five thirty flights. So but then it's like she's so tired when she gets there. She was crying in the uber, going I need a blanket. I'm like, I don't have a blanket.
She's like, yes, you do. She's like accusing me.
So it was a pain in the ass, but they did make up for it with the Delta one. I want to check my Delta app and see if I get Do I get extra miles for Delta one since I didn't spend it.
I don't think so. But always were always worth all. Look, since you canceled your flight, you could fangle it.
I had a moment. So there's memes.
About this where it's like you want to be the most efficient person at TSA and it's like for what And I didn't have a TSA moment. But as I pulled up to the gate agent, not the gate agent, but like the baggage dry Yeah, the woman went, wow,
you're so prepared. We love a prepared queen. And I was like, this is all I live for, like I was and and I have air pods now, you know, I just bought air pods, and so I was like, I had my friend in my ear, I had my phone, my ID, everything was ready, and she just complimented me. And I was like, I'm living in the future, man, Like I do love my AirPods.
I don't know why I held out for so fucking long.
They're so great, Like I can just like do chores around the house while I'm listening to something too, and no one else has to hear, Like I really love AirPods.
Well, so our friend did send us a DEMI.
So if anyone is on desmis, maybe you saw this and this is the des moin it says end quote. My fiance worked on a season of SVU and for the holidays that year, Marishka gave everyone five hundred dollars gift cards in addition to the company holiday gifts. Least favorite rap gift He's received are personalized crocs show Celebritt acted. That's fine, but five hundred dollars. I mean, if you're that rich, why not.
Yeah, that's gonna really help people at Christmas. And that doesn't mean anything to her. I mean she's well so famously not famously. Since we've recorded this episode last my brother comes to visit me in La We go to six Flags.
I lose my phone.
I'm sure I told you guys that it fell out of my pocket on a roller coaster. Then my brother goes to fly home on that Saturday, and uh, Marishkagte is in Delta one with him. My brother paid for Delta one and he is in there and he goes, I think I see Marisha Gargat's husband on this flight with me. And then he goes, it is him and she's with him, and I'm like, how is this possible?
Everyone sees her except for us.
Well, and then we were eating lunch in New York and our friend went to take a work call, comes back out faith full of Joy. Marishka was on the streets of New York filming svo so she then Summerish go on the street.
And then we saw we saw her post to her Instagram that she was in Times Square like a block from where we were eating. Yea, so we could have like gone out and tried to Like I don't know, I don't think we would have done anything, but we could have gone out there, and we.
Did see her close.
He's ceremony and that's still in me.
You know, I'm still having that.
That magic is still there. But that is, Uh, that was so funny. Just like two of our people close to us had run ins with her within like five days, and then we were right near her. But anyway, maybe that's uh the universe telling us we're getting closer. I wanted to ask you. I wanted to bring this up because I'm obsessed right now. My siblings and I love true crime. We always like to watch like the same
stuff as each other. So when we were in Connectic, when I was in Connecticut after a couple days in New York, I took my daughter out to Connecticut to stay with my brother and like, uh, we watched this peacock documentary call Who Killed Robert Wan? And it's one is spelled wne. It's a wild fucking case and I really kind of want you to watch it. It's only two episodes, two one hour episodes, and it's on Peacock
and it's this crazy case. I hope if somebody is listening that has watched this or knows about this case, like it basically to summarize it.
Like in Washington, d C.
In DuPont, which is where we recently performed, which is a nice ass area of DC. In this beautiful row house, these two guys live that are married to each other, and then they have a third guy who lives there who's like the third in their relationship.
They call themselves a family.
One of the guys in the married couple is good friends with this guy, Robert Wan, who he's known for twelve years, even longer, like years and years since the guy was eighteen fourteen years he's known him. And the guy Robert is like, can I come over and stay at your guy's house so that I don't have to like commute out to the burbs and I come back to work tomorrow. They're like, no problems, stay in our guest room. He gets there. Within seventy nine minutes, there's
a nine on one call that he's been stabbed. All three of the men that live in the house. When the cops get there, are freshly showered in white robes. The man has three almost surgical stab wounds in his torso and there's barely any blood. There's like barely any blood. And the whole situation is so fucking crazy. They invented that there's an intruder. They said an intruder came in. We heard a grunt, we heard the door open, but they never saw an intruder. The knife was sitting on the counter.
He just seems so young. This is sad fu.
Yeah, he was thirty two. He was this nice guy. He just wanted to become a lawyer soho could help people, Like I think he did nonprofit law or something like that. He had a wife everybody. So now I'm deep in Reddit. My siblings and I have been literally batting around like theories for the last seventy two hours, and I'm on Reddit. People are like some people are saying it was like sex plagu gone wild. There's like zero proof that this
guy was into any of that. He's been friends with these guys for years and years and one of the guys, the third in the relationship, had like a closet full of like sex toys, dom masks, like crazy electromagnetic So here's one of the crazy parts of it. They find semen on the victim's penis and in his rectum when they tested it's his own semen, So everyone's like, how
did it get up there? And then they find all these what they call joy toys in the documentary, they find all these toys and now it's like, oh, did they electromagnetic shock him, like what we've talked about on us on our podcast, like and to get him to come. Like it's a crazy story, but I don't want to give more away because there's so many little details. But there's also huge cop fuck ups that happen in it as well. It's it's a ride. If you have two hours, I would just suggest it. But it is sad.
It's sad, and nobody fucking knows.
Like it's really like unsolved, but it's not really unsolved in my opinion. In my opinion, they're responsible, whether they did it on purpose or by accident. I think they're responsible for him dying. But it's wild. That was your the clink, that was the family fun. Yeah, that's what we were doing. And does Collins husband like this stuff too?
Or yes, yes, and then we watched we were really deep and I was like, Lisa said, the woman in the photograph is really fucked up, and they were like maybe too dark, and so we kept watch, we kept scrolling.
We were really getting into the and we ended up watching the story of did you ever hear of this guy named Kai who saved a woman from being hit by this guy who was fucked up and was like trying to strangle this woman and he was a hitch hiker and he hit him three times and he goes smash, smash, smash, and then he became a viral sensation. He was on Jimmy Kimmel and he was called the hatchet wielding hitchhiker. But then he murdered someone. We watched that one. We
watched that one together. It's wild that one is like a one hour, one and a half hour one off thing. But it was just crazy, like because it happened in like I think twentyd and like twelve or thirteen, and I feel like that was like the peak time for like tan mom or like you getting super famous off of being viral. Now, I feel like something goes viral and like you don't really know who that person is in like five days.
You know what I mean.
But this was like this guy was getting offers for reality shows, like a producer from the Kardashians was like letting him stay at her house, like he was getting all this shit like and he was this hippie dude with like you know who played guitar who said he was homeless by choice. And then you find out all this fucking stuff and uh, it's wild, but that's Those are the two little true crime jockeys that I watched with that with my fam.
No, I got deep into love. I didn't watch the last season of Love is Blind. I think it jumped the show. I wasn't interested in that cast, but this one did pique my interests. And then I had a phone call with a friend yesterday and then I went, okay, and now I'm nine episodes in and I know I.
Love You're like I started last night. I'm nine episodes in.
I watched it all that it's it's it's like a good cat.
I mean, the casting did a great job. Like what can I say?
They did a great job and it but I did okay, so Karen knows I follow this account called a little nudge.
Well yeah, so I messaged her.
I'm like, thoughts on love is blind, and she's like really blind if you follow her, Like when people ask for advice, she's very much like you did wrong, Like no, this is bad, Like she she doesn't beat around the bush, so she's I was like, maybe alive. She goes, people aren't really interested, like what do you want from me? And so I was like, well, can you fall in love this fast? Like what are your beliefs on this? Like is this psychotic? Is this real? Like can you
do this? And she goes, in short, I think it's insane. She goes, it's made for good TV. But she believes in the classic, like you need to know someone through all four seasons before committing to a life.
I'll tell you something. I haven't dated in thirteen years. Really, I've been like out of the whole. I never really even got to hit the app games. I did match and stuff or not match like e harmony. But like,
this woman's account is so interesting. I just love the way people come to her and they're so sure that they didn't do anything wrong and that the other person is like ghosting them or playing a game with them, and it's like, but you didn't make it clear to them what you wanted, you know, Like she's very but then blunt. Yeah, and then she also says, yeah, you can reach out to her if you want to make sure she's okay, but you're not gonna hear back from
her like she ghosted you. Like she's blunt, and I really like that because I think that's what.
People need to hear. Well or it's people. Ah she said this, She's like, just ask this person.
Yeah yeah, yeah, Like you want to be in a relationship with a person and yet you refuse to communicate with them for what you want, Like what kind of life are you trying to? Yeah, it just makes no sense where it's like, well he said it's exclusive, and I googled what it means and I that's not a ment girl friend and boyfriend, but it doesn't.
So what ask this person that.
You're you're like letting put his penis inside of you?
Like it's so much of like, uh, well did you ask him? Like I know, simple, So it's fine. So I just wanted to know how she felt because one couple does seem like really into each other and it's real.
So I was like do you believe in it?
And season one had this like, you know, great story and they're still together, but she's like, no, it's insane, and she's like, it's great TV.
But it is.
Aren't two of them still together? Aren't Barnett and the Crazy Girls still together from the first season?
They are?
But I don't believe. I don't believe in healthy, good relationship. Yeah, sure, people could be together for thirty forty years, it doesn't mean that's admirable, Like, yeah, life isn't great. It's also like you could be miserable for fifty years. So I just think like Lauren and Cameron, Cameron were the ones that like actually seemed like healthy. I think that man had to sell his house to pay that lunatic's debt off.
You know what I mean, Like.
He couldn't like look at another girl, so they could be together. But I don't know if that's the success story. I'm sure, but I.
Just mean like they like they also could have broken up. I don't really feel like the spotlights on them anymore. And they're still together, so but I don't know. Like, but I didn't watch the last season either, but then people just oh, I.
Read every BuzzFeed. I read every article I could find. I just wasn't interested because it looked like people that just wanted to be on TV. And now there's spinoffs and there's more reality because now they have like Temptation Island, not Temptation Island, Bachelor in Paradise. Netflix has a version of it now, oh right, where people from the Netflix shows I think Perfect Match or something go on it. So now it is people that just want to be reality TV show stars.
And last season just that's the vibe I got.
I didn't watch it, so who knows, but this one it's probably people that just want to be famous as well. But it does something in It did draw me in in a very intense way. But there is also an evil woman on it that there's two very evil Casey's laughing.
Are you watching it? Yeah, he's been nodding at you the whole time.
Irena is evil and she's a you know, she's called turally one of mine, so I am obviously taking it personal. I claim her, so I take it personal. They're also young, they're like a decade younger than me, so it's like wild to watch as well. But there's meme girls and there's lies, and there's men making the wrong decisions and like there's just silliness. But then there's like really sweet couples.
But then there's like there's just wild behaviors or it's like someone being like I don't allow dishes in the sink, and it's like get get get a life, get a life.
It's so crazy when like a life. What was the first one? Like there was that couple they were really boring and like you could just tell she got the ick and was just like, nah, like this isn't gonna work for me, Like the boring one, like not the blonde, crazy one who fed wine to her dog, but the other couple, like and it's just like yeah, you can't even explain that. It's like I don't know, I just kind of got oh here.
So so this guy there was like a great girl and an evil girl, and the great girl is telling him like the fact that you even like this evil girl is like worrisome to me that you don't see that she's evil, Like right, she's pulling evil shit. And he goes what and picks the evil girl. She treats him like shit in the best way. She she meets him won't let him touch her, won't let him hold her hand, pillows in between them in bed. She sees
him and goes, you look like a cartoon character? Can you just blink?
Like you?
Just like she hates him but wants to be on TV, so she won't just like say it. But he's just so desperate, so like, I don't know, Wow.
It's wild.
But like at one point, this evil girl, like the nice girl's making this guy cupcakes for his birthday and she forgot his birthday and goes, hey, can you just give me one of the cupcake or give me a candle? Like it's just or one girl is crying because she's just going through her own shit where she obviously is like attracted to toxic men, but this really nice guy likes her and she's just struggling, and so she's crying and the evil girl's laughing, like laughing at her. Jesus, well,
she's trying to be a reality villain. It's like, oh, I don't think she's trying, babe. I think she's I think.
That's just her.
No, she tell she tells the guy. There's a clip of her going, I'm not a nice person. I wish I was, but I'm not like verbatim, and he goes, you are nice, I know it, And then the girl Bliss is like, I'm telling you she's evil.
Yeah, really funny. Fuck that's crazy.
Wait, Casey, say something, for the love of God, tell the viewers.
Well, I Arena is great. And I loved when she went to her best friend and asked her if her best friend's fiance is like, would want to fuck Arena? That was wild? Yeah, And her best friend's like what, And she's like does he talk about me? Or like does he have any interest in me?
She's crazy. I forgot about that.
Yeah, she's trying to fuck her best friends fiance.
I gotta get into this. I gotta get into But you know, I'm behind on Girls Trip. I gotta watch all this shit. There's too much.
Girls Trip's boring.
I just missed a week of TV being with my child and trying to go out at night and have and have dinners and hang out. But I was glad we got to hang out in New York. We had a big dinner with a bunch of fun people and that was fun. But then, you know, I always have to leave to relive a babysitter and it feels bad, but we had fun. What's well when this episode comes out, will just be back from moontower.
We am in San Francisco twenty six to twenty ninth of April.
Oh yes, San Francisco. At the at the punchline. At the punchline. Go see Lisa at the punchline. You guys, San Francisco, this is on you. We are working on future tour dates. Don't give up on us. We will be back out there on the road very soon. In the meantime, check out our merch guys, if you go to That's Messed Up live dot com, or you go to our link in our bio on our Instagram. We got a merch store.
It's fun.
We got a beanie we got I will tell you. I love the That's Messed Up fanny pack. I've been using it NonStop and the purple sweatshirt. And guys, come follow us on TikTok. We are not called That's Messed Up on TikTok because that leads you to a really fucked up search results page. We are an SVU podcast or an svpod. I think we're an sv podcast on TikTok. So go find us and help us grow our tiki talkie and then don't go anywhere because we've got a great episode coming up for you.
We are doing the episode Branded, Season twelve, episode six, and yeah, the word branded SVU.
You know, our brands go to dark places.
We don't know what's gonna happen here. Also, you know who loves to get branded Christians where tattoo is not enough.
They loved a brand across on them.
And of course famously Nextian, you know, Vagina brandings. We've talked about branding on this podcast before.
I forgot.
I've forgot about the sex called the volleyball sex cult, the Chinle.
Volleyball sex cult, the Chillen youth Van you thought it was a get gateway to enlightenment and changing your life, but it was a volleyball sex cult the whole time.
These poor girls.
So we open up on a hot mom and she's in a Periwinkle matching tank cardigan set. And Periwinkle had a real hold on my generation prom dress, I would say, and Kara as well.
Yeah, Harry Winkle.
Yeah, I don't think it's as strong of a color for the gen Z youth.
No, I don't see it as much anyways.
So this hot mom, she's walking out of this elevator angrily, and she's reminding her children it's family night, and it's like, lady, it doesn't seem like any of you want to do it. And the tween daughter she doesn't want to watch that dumb show where celebrities do the tango. And I feel like NBC is shading ABC here. Yes, and hot mom says dad wants to play a board game and Nintendo's son is like, ugh, not again, and the kids are like,
we have homework and run off. Not a good sign for the unity of a family if your kids would rather do schoolwork than hang out with you. Yeah, she's using reusable shopping bags, which I'm into, and I did not really, I wouldn't have anticipated that from a hot mom. So she puts the keys down and then, oh my god, she notices something's off in the house. Her husband is pantsless, he's tied up on the floor. He asks for her to call the authorities. Family game night is canceled. Done done,
So I'm very canceled. That's the game, that's the fun game. He goes, Let's solve the crime. Yeah, murder mystery. And it's a murder mystery. Daddy's pantsless, who did this? Foreign objects in his anus? Tell it like, start gathering clues, kids, Yeah, grab the lube, boys, ice teas on the scene with Benson and Stabler and a bunch of uniformed officers. Bill Dixon is his name. Uh, he's tied up, stripped. He runs a leather goods company. He remembers nothing except for
setting up a game for family night. And there's no sign of forced entry. The doorman saw nobody come or go. That was not a regular. The cameras are only in the elevator. Nine people went up between six and eight pm. Nobody got off on the twelfth floor. Ben's like, okay, so Spider Man and they love fucking referring to Spider Man. You know what's the other episode, Sperm in the Mouth? We do manipulated, manipulated always Spider Man. Finn is like, I'd say more like Casper the Unfriendly Ghost.
And he's.
And he's in a stretcher with his wife standing behind him, saying what went down. One moment he was setting up game night, waiting for his family to come home. Next he's tied up on the floor. She does the classic why are you here getting information? And now it out there searching for the madmen. So Benson for the advertising man.
Out there like people that don't know how police work works, They're like, just start wandering the streets find this person.
Like it's like what it's like, we need to get some information, a dust, a fingerprint, like yeah, ladies. So Benson's like, Finn, can you take her out of here please? So Benson's like, okay, tell us the real story. He's offended. He's like, you think I'm hiding something there, like you're you're holding you're covering your chest, sir. And now I notice he's holding his button down shirt closed. And then I notice fully it's covered in blood and he's holding
it with his closed fists. So it's like the fact that I didn't notice he's holding his shirt closed, I feel like such a naive viewer. And the Stabler's like, you don't mind if we take a peek. Finally he opens his bloody ass shirt and he's branded and the wound spells out ruiner in all caps. He passes out from the blood. The pulse is low. We got to get him to the hospital. Chat time is done well.
So it's actually like it's actually kind of I don't Maybe I'm wrong, but to me, branding is like you do it with heat. This is like this is it's cut into him.
Yeah.
We find out later it's a wire hangar and it's heated with a blowtorch Ah.
Okay, so it is Yes, you're right, so that is a brand. It looks like it's like fully cut with a knife. Geez, that's awful.
Yeah, and I'm sure I mentioned this on the podcast before, but it reminds me of the Marilyn Manson book where girls there's like a famous photo or like these girls cut Marilyn Manson into their upper chest and it's like bloody.
And it says Marilyn Manson on their like titties es. Yeah.
So anyways, so we're at the hospital now after the credits, and the doctor's explaining that he slept pretty good last night even with all of his injuries and only second degree burns, which the doctor actually calls lucky. The guy was knocked out cold with ketamine, which you know people love doing right now, people love.
To party with ketamine, but not this guy.
No.
I wonder if it's a dosage issue because yeah, so there was a puncture wound at the base of his neck. He was drugged from behind and violated in his behind some weird items three dice and a little timer this way.
This reminded me though, because she goes, you'll never you wouldn't believe the stuff people say they slipped and fell on. And my mother in law was an eer nurse and she told me that in one of our first conversations ever. She was like, you don't even believe the stuff people say that they just slipped and fell on. She's like, I've found a light bulb up there, like she's found like, but people will always say I just slipped and fell naked and something went up my buttthole, which is.
Like pretty closed. You really have to open it up, yeah.
Something you're using lube to get those kind of things. She was like, you batteries, Like you wouldn't believe the stuff we find up in people's antal cavities.
I just wonder do people think they're the only ones shoving shit up there? They're just some I mean, of course they're embarrassed. I'm like, do you think people are embarrassed? And it's like yeah, they're embarrassed they put the battery up there, But I don't.
Know, Yeah, they're embarrassed, and I guess like when you reach like a certain level of embarrassment, you just like shut off the ability to have like a lot. I mean, there's no logic that could like say how that really got up there?
So you're just like I fell.
Because you could just say it was a dare. You could be like I was dared. I lost the bet, Like it doesn't have to be sexual. Yeah, people truly like their shame of being gay like ruins their life, like like their brain.
Fully, Like you could just be like I lost the bet.
I was playing poker and all my guy friends decided that they were gonna they were gonna hold me down and put the battery in my butt.
I think maybe people didn't think about that because.
They're just so scared of being gay that they forget that they could lie about something else, you know what I mean, just lie more logically, Yeah.
Oh god, it fell.
You could just be like, you know what, I just thought it would be a fun goof for my wife to find a battery in my butt.
Like I don't know, it's just like so funny.
I guess not everyone's as gift as an improviser as you, Lisa.
And I'm not even that good a liar, like I do kind of freeze it look but like but I don't. I don't know what I would do if I put stuff in my butt. That's just not really a thing.
And then you had to go to the hospital and explain it.
I just remember once in high school we had to take this guy to the hospital, but he just broke he just hurt his dick, fucking our friend.
Yeah, I've told the story about how my friend, my friend broke his dick.
So the victims in the hospital outfit and he's like, listen, I didn't say anything because I'm embarrassed, which is fair and understandable, and he says it doesn't make sense. But Sailor's like, come on, you have no clue why someone would brand you ruin her, and you gotta admit it's a strange word. And he's like, what do you want
me to say? You think I'm lying? And Stabler's like, yeah, no, listen, no evidence that anybody forced their way inside the apartment, so that means you let them in, or someone had a key, like, are you having an affair? Bill? And the blonde is out with Benson being like, we have a great relationship.
He wouldn't he wouldn't cheat on me. The sex is fantastic.
Benson asked if anyone would want to hurt him or like arrival.
She can't think of anybody.
So now we're back to Stabler and Bill Dixon, and Bill is pissed and he feels like he's being interrogated, like he's the purp, and he's like, listen, there is some homosexual nutcase on the loose. And Stabler's like, what makes you think he's a homosexual? And Bill's like, he shoved game pieces up my ass and quickly Stabler's like,
well he drugs you. And Bill goes yeah, and they're like well and he branded your chest and he's like, yeah, I'm not the criminal heels and Stabler's like, yes, I understand that, but it's a very specific, twisted thing, like you gotta help me out, dude, and he's like, did you piss someone off? And he thinks, thinks and goes,
you know what. Jonas Rothenberg, the president of the Crooked Green Pond Foundation, he tried to stop Bill from making snake skin boots and the wife, you know, they do the flip and flop where they go from each conversation
to you know, finish each other's sentences. And so the wife continues to Marie and she calls him an envinoh nazi, enviro nazi, whatever an environmentalist in a Nazi does get combined into a lovely little word, and you know, pay for destroying the environment and ruined everything.
That he touched.
She basically says that this guy said that bill you know it like, is destroying the environment and ruins everything that he touches. And one time he attached a threatening letter to the door after sneaking into their building. So obviously let's go investigate this red herring. So they go to the the Bronx and the guy is knee deep in a pond with those like, you know boot pants that pond pond people.
Wear waiters, waiters, waiters.
Yeah, so he snuck him so while the doorman was sleeping, this like environ environ nazi and used the backstairs and then he and then this guy goes and I would do it again because he didn't have the proper permits to trap wildlife. But It's like this guy doesn't believe probably any you know, permits. He likes s nature. Oh that's that's just reminded me about my time fishing in Finland.
I love it. Okay.
So when the letter didn't work, he took him to court and he's pissed. What people do to animals? They make raincoats out of eels. Ew, I didn't know that. That doesn't even sound cool, sexy sheet comfortable, like, I don't get that. And then bat testicle ear rings again? What what Casey? Start researching? Is this real eel raincoats? Bat testicle ear rings? Please investigate? While I keep.
Talking, yeah, find that Etsy store, Casey, and he goes, I want to trap Bill in a trap. Beep beep.
Stabler gets a call. He answers it while Benson keeps talking. You know about the tree huggers whereabouts? And this guy, if you're wondering, he's the high maintenance actor Ben Sinclair. I thought, so yeah, yeah, and he looks like a baby John Malkovich. If you know, my husband just went to dinner with him a week ago. With Ben's Sinclair, not John Malcolmvich. Correct, with Ben Sinclair. No, I was about to get in a really big fight with you and your family.
Oh my god, that would be the only thing I talked about for I mean, I would I would like hit your you.
In the neck if I'd be so pissed if I was not told about a John Malcovitch dinner. So, and the night before while the attack was happening, he was at a lecture on the use of algae as a source of energy. Stabler comes back and party, first time party. He he goes back in the water.
Sabler said, I love drug race. Okay.
So Stabler comes back, thanks him for his time, and so the door goes back in the water and Stabler tells Benson. Finn says, we know how the attacker got in the building maybe, And what we see is there's a vacuum box on a video and it's like really tacky box. Okay, Casey, we got we got scoop Kara, what is it you want to read?
You cannot find anything on bat testical earrings or eel raincoats. So this guy, I think, like the point is this guy's being a little bit paranoid, like of course, snake skin boots, like fox fur coats.
I'm sure that stuff's happening.
But like I think this guy's going like a little bit crazy. Yeah. Like also, maybe they do this in foreign countries and we don't have the right Google search terms because it's in different languages or something.
Yeah, that's Google. Google has the Come on, Google knows everything.
I don't know if they do it in like, if they do it in like China and we don't have Chinese character, we're not looking it up in Chinese characters might not uh, they might not be written.
I don't know, Kara, please take that.
You think that it's just impossible it exists if it's not on Google.
Okay, but if I wrote people who eat crickets, it doesn't like in America, we don't eat crickets, but it would say what countries people eat crickets in.
That's different.
That's more cow is that because that's more common. This is very very okay, but Anthony very specific a niche No, okay, then it's just a very creative as telling me.
You're telling me Google doesn't tell us things that happen in different countries that don't happen here.
It's not what I'm telling you. I'm saying that that's exactly what different. No, it's not.
I'm saying if if it's in a different language with different characters, and we're not using the right search terms, it might not come up. If something only happens in France and you don't search for the French word for bat, then you might not there might not be an article about it written in English.
That's all I'm saying. Okay, So we're back to this vacuum box. Who even vacuums anymore? Okay? So we so we see this box.
Is there a new technology where you don't have to vacuum anymore?
It's red, yellow, orange, okay, Tina Berner.
So then the vacuum is called vacattack.
And the super said the box was delivered two hours before the attack, and it was sent to the super and he left it in the basement and when he went back to get it in the morning, boom, it was ripped open and empty. So the purp had himself delivered last night, which is a good way to avoid cameras and dormant.
So they go over to.
The local freight company that handle the delivery. They go to talk to the employee and get all the scoop. No warrants are asked, She's down to give all the scoops.
She doesn't give a fuck. So one label is for the real vacuum, and then there is a duplicate label and it's made from a different IP address, and then it cuts straight to Reuben Morales, friend of the pod, and he's like, oh my god, this hacker is genius, genius, black hat level, holy shit high tech breach braking uses a lot of you know, high tech words.
They can't track at all.
Finn comes in and debunks the theory that it can be because he can't be at two places at once. He was at this Algae event. Dixon is not having an affair. It's very not likely. And also outside of the tree hugging community, he's very well liked. But Benson is like, you don't get branded ruiner for no reason, so there's got to be something else. Let's take another run at Dixon. Craigan busts in and says, well, he
needs to get in line. We got another victim, so they rushed to the apartment of Victor Ramos on one hundred and sixteenth Street. He's boud, he was bound and trust I never ever heard that word trust.
Oh yeah, trust that. What does that mean? Tiede tied? Okay?
Yeah, And but I think trus trust.
Is when you're tied like back, okay, like okay, like a little pig.
Yeah.
And so Upper West Side guy, no witnesses and his chest, says Trader. And he's on a stretcher. Intense, blue eyes, very intense. And he's at the precinct. Did we ever talk about aout the Hugh Grant Ashley Graham interview or No.
We did, but I don't remember if it was here or somewhere else we did.
I just think of that movie Mickey Blue Eyes when I say blue Eyes.
Oh you don't at all. No, you don't think of that cover. Nope.
So whatever, But he's at you know, he's at the precinct, this blue eye guy, and he's more alert than the previous dude. He's ready to talk. He was cooking dinner for his daughters. They were coming home from soccer practice in a half an hour, and he felt a sharp pain in his neck as well.
And then he woke up.
His hands and feet were tied, and his chest burned with the word Trader.
I wonder how he called the cops. Surf.
His daughters found him and called the cops, like, I wonder what happened. So Stabler is like, so, any idea about like what happened? And he goes, No, I've never betrayed anyone. I'm a good man, and this is a red flag for me. This is kind of like when people say I've never lied in my life, and it's like, really, come on, We've all betrayed and lied, and these the sayings of ultimatums are clear red flags that you are a liar and be tire like sorry, So he goes,
why would I use a candle from my kitchen? And then he can't finish his sentence, and Stabler finishes it for him and goes and sexually assault you with it. So up his butt is a candle? What's up your button? Around the corner? Your own candle? Go, We're gonna find out, but we're gonna start with work. Do you have any enemies from work? He's a tax accountant and he doesn't feel like he's pissed anyone off, and he has no enemies outside of work. This would be the opposite of me.
They'd be like, so, who would want to do this to you? And I'd be like, all right, well, get your pen and paper out, get a scenographer in the room, get a couple of scenographers. Someone's wrists might get tired, and it would be like an eight month investigation.
Yeah, a lot of alibis.
Well, you have enemies, but I don't know how many people would throw you and stick something up your booty.
No, they'd all be on the road. It would be like so many schedules.
It would be so hard.
They'd be like, well, we got this one guy, but we can't talk to him until he's done doing Zany's Nashville.
They're all podcasting and they're all selling out theaters, so they would be too busy to you know, stick my objects.
Oh my, but they would find enough objects in my apartment to do it. If they did, that's part of the decluttering.
You need to you're gonna fall and something's gonna slip up there, Lisa.
It would just be like a goofy movie toy they found. They'd be like, any significance to this goofy movie object. So he's, uh, He's like, I'm just trying to he seems stressed whatever, And Sailor's like, listen, I'm just trying to find a possible motive.
He's like, I don't know my wife died of a brain or two years ago.
I'm dating a woman from church and my daughters will go to Saint Gerald's. I've never betrayed anyone, and I don't know what his wife dying has anything to do with it.
Like you know new Gingrich has a wife that died.
We don't like him. I don't get that. I don't get this little good boy act he's doing. Stabler slides a photo of Bill Dixon and he goes, you know this guy. He goes, no should I and b d Wong is spying and he goes his anguish seems real, and Stabler and Benson are like okay, and the story and Bedie Wong goes, I'm not a lie detector. I'm a man, you know, but is there a connection? And he goes, listen, you gotta find it, like, I don't
know what to tell you. And they're like, well, the'll purt broke into their homes, drug them with kenna, I mean, penetrated them with foreign objects and targeted them. Huang's like, okay, but you're assuming the attacker isn't delusional. Something could have set this guy off. Stabler's like branding seems like revenge, and Benson's like, I just really don't buy that this
is a coincidence. Huang's like, Okay, if they did something bad together, they're not going to cop to it, but at some point they might want to reach out to one another. And they're like, oh my god, you're saying we should tail the victims. Then they're like, well, they know us, but they don't know Finn, so let's fucking go. So rhythmic music plays, and the two men go to meet a third man and they're yelling on the street
as Finn takes photos and says smile dirt bags. And they're in front of a place called Gammon Imports, Importing Exporting, another Seinfeld reference. And then the third guy of this little trio is Alexander Gammon. So they are liars and they are betrayers, Like fuck the fuck the ease at which people lie. So they're pissed and scare. Benson clocks Alexander's two thousand dollars Armani suit like that our girl knows not only purses, sunglasses, hat lingerie. Yeah, men's suits
as well. Honey, she can clock on our money for miles away. So they head over to Gammon's place to ask why the two men went over there to yell at him. He's like, sorry, dudes, I don't know these guys. And then they show the receipts and he cops to annoying them when he's pushed against a corner. He says they were having a business discussion, and he's like, okay,
well then why would you li for no reason? And he's like all secretive and doesn't want to talk about business and you know whatever, and then it's like not interesting. He goes listen. Bill makes high end belts and I give them his Christmas gifts. And Victor does accounting and he speaks Spanish, so he works with all my Spanish clients. And Benson's like, so that's what you're secretive about. These
are the hush hush fights. You're having your belts guy and your accountant and they rushed after questioning to me and yell outside your business and you're being secretive.
Like fuck off.
We also find out that they've all been working together for ten years, and this Gammon guy's getting annoyed is like what is this about? And then they tell him a lot. They're like, well, both those guys have been branded and sodomized. And it's like, are you allowed to like.
Just disclose what's happened to them? Yeah.
I love the therapists and doctors up to stay secret, but I guess the cops can just tell this guy that these other guys have been branded and sodomized.
And so Gammon's like, what's this got to do with me?
And so they're like, well, we're trying to find some connection between these two guys, and you seem to be it, and you can be next, and we wouldn't want to have like have this happens to another innocent person. And then he takes out a gun and says, if someone wants to try it, let's go, and yes, I have a permit, so leave. And they leave, but they don't buy a word he said. And then holy shit. As they walk out of his place, in walk like in like past them, walks a delivery person wheeling a vack
attack box. They look done, yes, chin on the floor, They're like whoa. So they have all the cameras set up and they're waiting a long as time for someone to pop out of this box hours hours, Like passage of time is very obvious in this. Uh, these shots and the shaking begins of the box after a while. This is very like ace Ventura, you know with the rhino ace venture too. Yes, my friend and I always
go sure gets hot in these rhinos when he comes out. Uh. And the person scurries out of the box uses the backstairs. They're heading into the apartment. Wait, did you get the wordle from two nights ago?
What the fuck that was? It was yesterday and it was so hard it was guano. Yeah, and I was like from ace Ventura, Like I thought that word was in another language.
But here we go.
Yeah, they're heading into the apartment. The detective watch on the screen. The attacker enters the apartment, the TV is on. It's like a black and white movie. There's like, you know, a business style, big leather chair, and then you know, the attacker picks up the syringe, ready to attack. He's going to the chair and then the chair spins around. It's Stabler with a gun going freeze. It's the cops
and then Benson pops up behind the attacker. They have him on both sides and they say drop the syringe, but instead he charges Stabler, who stops him. And then they get to the person and holy shit, it's actually Camille, the girl from the shipping place, and she is under arrest, and she is out of breath, she is not happy, and she is now in interrogation. Benson is standing behind her like you got nothing to say, no denial, no nothing, no explanation.
You do have the right to remain silent. But I did some digging.
Your mom died when you were five, your dad went to bellevue for schizophrenia. You've been to six foster families, multiple arrests for drug use and delinquency. That's a good resume for a life of crime, except for one thing. At sixteen, you took a state IQ test and scored in the exceptional range. And you are so smart, but you hate authority figures. Hmm, So tell me, Camille, who are you? And all she says back is I'm nobody?
Who are you? Are you?
Nobody too? While crying softly, which is an Emily Dickinson poem. Oh okay, I thought it was doctor Seuss, So I'm glad you did a little research on that.
Or is that top of the noggin Is that a top?
No? I knew it was somebody, and so I just looked it up. I'm nobody.
Who are you? Are you nobody too?
It goes on, but yeah, So they bring the three stooges in to meet Camille, not to me, you know, to identify her, and she's sitting at the table alone, and the three of them look through the two a mirror and the Gammon guy's like this, says who you ran me out of the apartment for? And that's not his accent, but whatever, and he goes he is kind of hot, but he is a douche, and so he goes, Yep,
she was gonna brand you like she branded them. And he's like that little thing could not have done that to me or to them, Like, no way, and Bill says, no way she did it, and Sailor's well, you were unconscious, and Bill goes, no way, and Ramo says, anything's possible. I suppose, but that girl did not attack me. A man did it. And Gammon says, I don't know this girl.
We've never seen her before, and Saber's like, is that the same as when Bill says he's never seen any of you, and then we followed him to you and he answers, what are you insinuating, Detective I love it?
And he's like, I'm just reviewing the facts.
She went after all three of you with the intention of branding new and Gammon says she's looney Tunes and Bill says that girl is obviously mentally ill, and Stabler's like, that's your story. All three of you are sticking with and Gammon's like, oh, is that what you do? You can't solve the case, so you harass the victims. So they leave, as Gammon goes, listen, I'm buying breakfast my kind of guy.
Only at that part. Only at the buying, only that part about it. Yeah.
Cragan walks right in and asks if they id'd her, and they're like no, none of them have any com like connection to Camille. For Kragan's like, well, we have to charge her.
We're done. Stabler breathes deep.
Now Craigan's, Stabler, and Benson are hanging out, and then a forgettable woman da walks in and says, ugh, I can't prosecute this case, and Craigan introduces her to the squad. It's Jillian Hardwick. She says, I don't have enough evidence, and Stabler's like, oh, is this your first job or something. She's like, no, I was in the Brooklyn Blue Zone when you're a da poached me and she smiles. She's like a Midwest version of Malan Ackerman. I would say, yeah,
she's the one in our live shows. I think we call her white House black Market, like that's very her vibe, Like she's just like sort of a plane Jane's strawberry blonde.
Like yeah.
She says she's glad she did because she's a huge fan of their unit, and Stabler raises his eyebrows and she realizes that came out wrong. But she does have a conviction rate of ninety two percent, which sounds fake.
What.
She had one of those Etsy T shirts on like under her like court clothes, and it's like the Benson and Stabler like old like T shirt. She's like, I'm a huge fan. I love you guys.
Yeah, so we no one cares about her and they do have enough evidence, like they caught her in the box, Stabler stopped her.
She had all the tools, and she's like, well, not exactly.
Taru did a dump on the GPS on Camille's phone and it has her at a midtown Macy's and all Harlem target at the exact time of the first two attacks. And Stabler is like, she's a good hacker and the men can't I d her? And Craigan's like, well, what about the alleged attack like Gammin And She's like again, he doesn't want to press charges, And Benson is like,
those men did something to Camille. Huang walks in and says, wow, I never thought I would hear you blame the victims, and she just is like, I feel like Camille is the real victim here. Craigan says, how do we prove it? Huang says, maybe we can find out through her method of assault? But why now? Like what catalysts happened that popped her off? Like you know she's had suppressed anger, something brought it to the surface.
What happens? So they all scattered to get to work.
They get a warrant to search for space and get to the bottom of the case. Benson and Stabler are at her apartment. They can't find anything but hacking gear. Stabler thinks, like Wan Huang is off the mark right When Sabler says that Benson finds old photos in a report card and then boom baby summer camp photo, clean air Camp.
Weird camp. Well, it's based off of.
Fresh Air Fund, which is a real camp and like things for kids that are like in the foster care system or like need camp. My friend did that for her wedding instead of gifts, she had everybody give money to the Fresh Air Fund.
And why can't it be like a more fun name, like sports and games, you know, like what, because I.
Think it's like mostly getting kids out of cities into like the country where they can like have like clean it more fresh air.
Yeah, got it.
So a female camper's face has been erased and at the top guests who's there? Alexander Gammon? He is a fuck counselor. So we found the connection these fucking liars. Everyone's a goddamn liar. So we go to camp. They talked to an employee who remembers Gammon. He worked there for one summer in nineteen eighty six and he sucked. His rich daddy got the camp owner to get him
a job, and he was a jerk. Stabler shows her photos of Dixon and Ramos and asks if they were friendly with him, and she goes, oh, yeah, Bill was a lifeguard and Victor worked in the kitchen, and she remembers Camille. She was a very talented girl, but she came from really abusive foster homes. Stabler's like, is there any evidence that Camille was molested or assaulted at camp?
And the employee gets pissed, like.
Nothing ever happens at camp like this blah blah blah, and it's like, okay, Chilla out, something did happen, So why don't you think a little harder? And she thinks and she's like, actually, I remember something. So after the fourth of July, there were after the fireworks, she walked down to the docks and found Camille and she was dazed and out of it, and she asked what's wrong?
And all Camille said was I'm nobody? Who are you? Are you nobody? Too?
Music plays Ben's knots. So now we're in jail with Camille. As Benson tries to reach her, she says, girl, you are not nobody. Camille gives her a dirty look like please don't try me. Her dark makeup is smeared underneath her eyes, and Benson's like, you were fourteen we know about the Clean Air Camp Fund. Something terrible happened, and whatever that was, you've been holding it in all these years, and you need to talk about it now. She says,
I don't want to. Benson says, you've been through terrible pain and I'm here to listen. Benson gets up and moves to sit closer to her. Her gold necklaces move in a very beautiful way during this seat change, and she's like, I'm asking you to tell me, Please tell me. Camille is uncomfortable and sniffles and then starts. It was fourth of July. Fireworks happened. She was walking back to her bunk. Alexandra said a bunch of people were going into the woods to drink and play games. Victor and
Bill were there too, and they were already drunk. After they led her into the woods, she asked where everybody was, and they laughed and said it was a private party. She is struggling to tell the story and begins to
fully sob Benson says, it's okay. Alexander and Bill held her and then Victor uh tried to get them to stop, but Alexander ripped off her shorts and then raped her and then billed it as well, and then she was bleeding and Victor didn't want to, but Alexander pushed him into it and called him a punk and made him do it. And then Alexander said if she told anybody, he would deny it, and he said, who would believe the word of a little nobody anyway. Benson sighs with sadness.
She says, yeah, I branded them so they'll never forget what they did to me. And I wish that i'd branded Alexander. I would have burnt hell on his chest, because that's where I was going to send him. Benson says, Camille, why would you wait fourteen years after you were raped? She looks down. She's been looking down a lot. She you know, she's tough, but this is all hard for her.
And she explains a few weeks ago, she was walking down Central Park South and her to laugh and it sounded exactly like the way she used to laugh, and she knew that it was her.
She could feel it.
And Benson asks who, and she cries, and she goes my daughter, and she cried so hard, and Benson whispers.
The rape got you pregnant.
I couldn't bear to keep her knowing one of them was the father, and I gave my baby up for adoption the day after she was born. And then it's very deep crying and Benson takes us personally because of her own backstory.
Yeah.
This actress, by the way, is Bess Rouse. Incredible, crushing it, very good acting, tears, the pacing, the emotions, all of it. And she's in the new Nicholas Cage vampire movie that I cannot wait to see.
Yeah, Renfield, Yeah, yeah.
So you know we're gonna keep peeling back the layers of this. So we're in the squad room, Benson is filling everyone in and the hospital confirms that Camille gave birth February nineteen ninety seven. And the new DA is a fucking bitch. She went from a nobody to a
fucking bitch. She goes, this seems like a stretch. You hear a laugh, and it's your daughter that you gave up for adoption, and Benson goes in a very serious tone, a mother knows her child, and Sadler's like, one of these pricks is the father, and Da Robbery Blond is like, okay, well if Camille is telling the truth, and Benson goes, that's easy to prove. We find the girl, we take the DNA and we match it to the creeps, and the DA is like, okay, the files are sealed, so
we're done, and the statue of limitations has expired. Sailor says, fine, let's get them on obstruction, like they lied about knowing her, and she's like, any half assed attorney would get them off, and Benson yells they're rapists, and she goes, well, my jury's not going to hear any of that, and she's like proud of it. This isn't even bothering her. Yeah, Like she doesn't want to try to help it at all.
And so she's prosecuting Camille and she's acting like she has no choice, and Benson's like, she was gang raped. And then the DA is like, okay, well she sodomized two men and branded them with coat hangers. And Benson's like, oh, you're trying to keep your percentage up. That's important to you. Huh. She snaps back, you did your job and now it's time to do mine, no matter how.
Much it hurts.
So now we're in Supreme Court and we're watching the video of the aggressive confession and they cut it off right before she talks about the rape, and Benson's on this Dan and won't let it go. And she's like, you didn't play like the whole confession, and the DA cries to the judge, and the judge reminds her, like reminds the jury that she took parts out of the confession she finds irrelevant to the case, and Benson's like, what Camille said is not irrelevant. Benson's pissed. The judge
threatens her. David Allen Greer is Camille's attorney. Fun Love It. So Bill is on the stand and he's claiming to barely remembering Camille, like, oh, maybe she was a camper around ninety six. He says there was no intimate contact, she was fourteen, and he can't think of any reason besides her being insane for the attack. David Allen Greer comes up and says, Okay, so when the cops first asked you about this, why did you say you didn't know who this was?
Now you know who it is.
And he's like, well, it's because the relation to like the other guys. And so now Gammon is on the stand and he's a dick and he says, oh, yeah, I remember her from camp. She was moody, prone to lying, and was sexually provocative and would skinny dip with a number of boys. And this guy belongs on vander Pump rules, Like this is what big of us scumbag he is.
So she screams and calls him a liar. And the judge obviously is not a fan of this behavior, and he says that she would flash him, and it's like, come on, we could just see that.
It's not the vibe of this person.
But he said that he let her down and so that's why she's attacking him and everything. And he then calls her dad a whack job, and she stands up and calls him a son of a bitch. And then David Allen Greer grabs her to subdue her and calm her down and says, calm down, and she screams, but he raped me. They all raped me. And then the judge says, to disregard that. But I don't get how
you do that. Like I know that the judges are always telling the jury like, don't listen to that, but like we are human, Like I don't understand how you're supposed to just like not be human, like we heard it.
What do you mean like not like?
I just don't get how they expect people to like not take things into account.
Get why they're not allowed to bring it up.
The satutal limitations is up because well, I guess because you can't prove it.
It's just like an accusation.
Well, yeah, like you can't bring up old things that are it's the law.
It's crazy.
So so Stabler looks pissed, and Victor's outside smoking and is not calm about any of this, and Stabler runs up to him. You should have heard the accusations against you, that all of you raped her, and he says that girl is nuts and he walks off as Stabler yells, are you sure, and he says, leave me alone, And Sailor's okay, it seems like you're a decent guy, not like those douchebags in there. What Camille did to you
was terrible. But those animals are painting her with a black brush, and you have daughters, one of the same age as Camille. Back then, really dramatic music plays and he's thinking about his daughters. Victor is on the stand and we're hoping for the best, the truth.
Is dot dot dot Okay.
So then David Allen Greer repeats his question, what was the exact nature of your relationship with the defendant that summer? He says, that's complicated. He's wearing the version of the outfit that's let's swear to look good in court. You know, it's like her church boy blues, like a Tom Sawyer outfit. Camille is looking hissed. He says, Camille had a crush on Alexander. She wanted to hook up with him all summer, and that's why she went after him. But I don't
know why she went after me and Bill. Camille does not respect the judge, and she yells out again because I heard her referring to, you know, the laughing that she heard in the park earlier, you know, and she yells out she was laughing.
And then you know, order order.
The gavel hits, and then Camille says I took her picture, and the judge threatens her. Benson goes into the DA's office to yell at the DA, you proud of yourself. You had to trash her. She says, I have to win the case. That's my job, and she's like, no, your job is to make sure that justice is done. Convicting Camille is not justice. She says, that's for a jury to decide, and Benson is like, they're gonna fucking have at her because you turned her in to some
crazy slut. Congrats, bitch, She calls out, detective, since you're storming off, can you actually drop this off at like defense counsel? And that's like confusing, and then she hands over a green folder.
Benson is shocked.
She grabs it hesitantly, and the DA says, don't look at what's inside. But she does anyways, but the DA.
Says it in a way that's like, don't look at what's inside, like she wants her to.
Oh yeah, I thought it was one of those situations where it's like if Benson looked at it, like she would be in trouble or implicated into something, you know, like sometimes it's I think types of games.
That's what I thought it was.
I know what you're saying, but I think she's giving her like a little hint to go do the right thing, but in a way that doesn't get.
Her in trouble.
Yeah, her eyes do open wide, marishkas and the DA says see you tomorrow. I'll like, hmm, yeah, I no exactly what you think I am. So David Allen Greer then calls Hannah Milner to the stand and a blue eyed teen walks in and I know her from Ladybird and the blue eyes matched someone else's blue eyes, if you know what I mean. And she walks in with a very confident swagger. Gammon leans into the da and is like, who is that? And she goes, I guess
a defense witness. I don't know, bad acting. So this Hannah Milner's on the stand and she points at her adoptive parents and there are Kansas looking as fuck, Like these people do not live in New York. I don't They remind me of the scrunchy woman from Sex and the City. Like these are fucking country bumpkins if I've
ever seen them? So okay, And then the girl knows that she has biological parents as well, and she knows who her bio parents are because David Allen Greer reached out to her, Hannah Milner to do a blood test and the results came back yesterday, and she got a call and was shown photos of her parents. He asks if her biological parents are in the courtroom today. She says yes, and he asks if she can point them out please. She points to her mother and that is Camille.
Before she can point, Gammon gets up and says, this has nothing to do with that lunatic stalking us, and the judge obviously tells him to sit down and shut up, and so she gets back to pointing, and David Allen Greer is like Alexander Gammon in the blue shirt, and he pops up and says objection, this is insane. The judge is like, sit down now, and Hannah says no. The man behind him and they all look around, and he says it's true. It's my daughter, and Gammon says
shut up. And Ramos says we raped her. I'm sorry Camille, and Gammon says keeps saying shut up, shut up, and he continues, all three of us did it. We raped her, and the judges had enough officers escort mister Ramos out. But before Ramos is the dad right, ye, yes, yeah, the guy with bright blue eyes, yeah yeah yeah. But before he is fully dragged, he gets a few hits and pushes on Gammon and says that he's been paying them off for their silence for years, and he made
them do it. Gammon says he's crazy, and he then screams while being dragged out by two court officers. Then he screams, there's other women. He pays them off. I know this, I do his books. You're a rapist. Gammon keeps repeating the crazy line. Oh yeah, you know. Tax accountants they don't have a what is it like therapists. They don't have to keep anything secret. There's no confidentiality clauses. Accountants can spill your beams. Gammon keeps repeating the crazy line,
like everyone's crazy, everyone's crazy. Ramos keeps repeating the rapist line. You're a rapist, You're a rapist. The DA smiles a coy smile. Stabler walks into interrogation in the brick wall cage window vibe room where Gammon is sitting in all of his stewing anger, and Stabler reveals that Ramos and Dixon are going to do some time for perjury, which is a small price to pay for rape, but it is something. But you you're looking at a very long bid.
And he asks how he knew Ramos was the father, and Stabler goes DNA duh, but we also have more picks. And Stabler opens a folder with two women's faces and he's like, do you recognize them? Hmmm, But obviously this dude doesn't want to talk, and Sabler says, well, they're on your payroll for your silence, except they're giving the money back and they're pressing charges against you, and un like Camille, the statue of limitations has it run out
on them. And so then Gammon asks what happens now, and Stabler smiles and he's really finding joy and putting the scum away, and he goes not very clever, but Stabler does have fun, and he says, go directly to jail,
do not pasco, do not collect two hundred dollars. And Camille gets to watch this on the other side of the glass, and she thinks Detective Benson, and then Benson does tell her she still needs to see the judge about sentencing, who might need a few days off after the trial, Like I don't like, how is a crazy trial? Like she needs so like a Bermuda four day like long.
The judge is doing self care and needs to just reset.
Yeah, like no one is listening to her, like you had a gavel so many times, but she's gonna have two minor counts of trespassed, so like that's pretty chill for branding, I think. But she's okay to pray the
price for her crimes, like she's a chill girl. So then she goes to meet Hannah, and Hannah wants to wish her good look in court, and Camille apologizes that this is how they had to meet, and Hannah's like, I don't mind, Like this is cool, and Camille says thank you, and they cry and smile and embrace and they hug deep and Benson has moved and Camille really cry, like they really cry of joy, and it's like a very beautiful moment. And Dick Wolf Baby Oh branded branded A good one, A good one.
Thank you Lisa for taking us through that episode. We'll be right back with several little cases to discuss, and we're back. So one of the things this episode is based on, it seems, is the Millennium book series, which are the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo books, which I'm obsessed with. The you know, the Millennium book series were written by Steve Larson who's a Swedish journalist and the main protagonist is a woman named Lizabeth Salander, and she is like a rape victim who partakes in a lot
of vigilante justice. And these books are like the Girl with the Dragon tattoo, the Girl who played with Fire, and the Girl kicked the hornet's nest and then he unexpectedly died, I believe, And oh yeah, Stieg Larsen died, and so another Swedish author picked up like his estate like hired him to keep going on the books. So he wrote the Girl in the Spider's Web, the Girl who takes an eye for an eye, and the Girl who Lived Twice And is.
It all one girl doing all this or is each yeah, different person.
No, it's always Lizabeth Salander. And she's this very skinny, genius hacker who has had like a tough upbringing. And she also does at one point brand a rapist with the words quote I am a sadistic pig, a pervert and a rapist.
So but only one movie, or they're gonna continue doing all these movies.
They made three movies in Swedish. I've watched all of them, and they star knew me Repace and she's like a Swedish actress who kind of had some crossover success. I think she was in one of the Sherlock Holmes movies with Robert Downey June's and she is a great Lizabeth Salander. Then they read that David Fincher made The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo with Svu Alum Rooney Mara, and I just didn't think that was that great. I think that's why they didn't really. I think they expected them to
really hit and they didn't. But I loved those books so much, Like I remember closing The Girl Who Played with Fire and putting it down on my coffee table and just walking out the door of my apartment to go buy the next one, Like I was obsessed. Like I was like, I have to read the next one immediately. So I have seen the Sweet I do like the
Swedish movies. But there's a couple. There's another episode we talked about that I feel like has grow with the Dragon Tattoo vibes as well, so this seems to be
borrowing a little bit from it. Another reference in this episode is to Richard Lee McNair, and he is a murderer and I'm not really going to get into his crimes because it's not really relevant, but he was in prison in Louisiana and he worked in a part of the prison where he repaired old mail bags, and in two thousand and six he figured out a way to mail himself out of prison.
Basically he made it like this.
Yeah, so that's kind of where the was he in prison for murder?
M murder?
I don't know, but he deserved to be in jail, like he deserved to be in jail.
He's a murder.
Do you know?
I love an escape?
Like, yes, that's the thing. It's like so fun when they escape, but they do deserve to be in there.
Here's why you're gonna love Richard Lee McNair even more. This was his third escape, Oh my third fucking escape. His first escape he only lasted a few hours. His second escape, he made it October to July, so like eight or nine months. And then basically what happened with this one is he made an escape pod much like
the back attack box. It had a breathing tube and everything, and then he buried himself under mail bags and then the whole palette was shrink wrapped and forklifted to a warehouse that was outside of the security area of the prison. So when all the guys broke for lunch, he just cut himself out and walked right off the property and on that prison break that was from April six. They didn't catch him until October of seven, so he was
gone for eighteen months. He got a nice little vaca, and now he's in jail forever for murder and prison escape, which is so I wonder what security he's at now.
Yeah, but I wonder if he's treated like a king.
I wonder if you're an escape guy, if everyone's like, hell, yeah, that's our dude, Like way to go, bro, Like if you're the opposite of a pedophile, Like, I.
Mean, it's wild after two escapes, they would give him any kind of job where he would have any access to like the outside, you know what I mean.
I feel if you escape three times, that's bingo. You get to leave. Yeah, you did it. You in eight to nine months alone and then eighteen months.
Like, yeah, we need to clever your we need to harness your cleverness for good, Like you need to let you out and like put you in a lab and make you solve some problems.
Yeah, Like why should he should work for the FBI and help like POW's escape or something. I don't know, let me look up what he looks like. Maybe maybe I'll change my opinion.
I don't know.
I mean, I think I didn't really get into all of his crimes because at first I couldn't figure out why it was related to this episode, and then I was like, ah, yes, because he is. There was even like a book or a movie or something that was like the man who mailed himself out of jail or something like that. He murdered a man and shot a second man in a botched robbery.
I'm glad he's killing men. Honestly, I'm glad it's not a woman or a child. I mean it's someone's child. Yeah.
So then the case that this is also based on more broadly, it appears, is a case that happens.
So he was just trying.
To do a burglary and was surprised by two men and murdered one of them, Like he wasn't planning on.
Murdering, Okay, but he murdered somebody.
Yeah, an accident and then he just shot someone four times but they survived.
And I think I wonder if he would have gotten parole if he hadn't kept escaping.
I wonder, No, obviously this is a psychopath, but like I'm just I love an escape.
Okay, yeah, let's let's keep it moving. Let's sell.
The case that this is also based on is the case of Masami Yoshinaga. This happened in nineteen ninety five in Okinawa, Japan, where there was and I believe still is, and I know there still is a US military presence.
I don't know how heavy it is.
This case involved one guy from the Navy named Marcus Gill and two Marine named Roudriko Harp and Kendrick Ledett, who were all serving at Camp Hansen on Okinawa. So Gil, who seems like he was the ringleader of this group of dudes, rented a white van and picked up the other two guys, and then there was a fourth guy as well.
They went around to lunch.
They drove around all afternoon, and then Gil started talking about raping someone and the fourth man was like, I'd like to be dropped off please, and so he got out of the car and didn't want anything to do with what they were doing. Ladette and Harp wanted to pay for sex, like they had some money between them, and they were like, let's just go find like a sex worker. And Gil had no money, and plus he
said paid sex was quote no fun. So Harp's attorney, mitsu Nobu Matsunaga, said that Gil said it was just for fun. So Harp and Ledett thought he was joking about this whole thing until he showed them that he was prepared with duct tape and condoms. So I don't know why they didn't bail then, but they were still in the car and at eight pm they saw a twelve year old Japanese schoolgirl named Masami Yoshinaga, wearing a school uniform and carrying a bag of books, just walking
along the street. They pulled her into the van, kidnapped her, beat her to be quiet, duct tape her eyes and her mouth shut, and bound her hands, and then they drove to a secluded field. Another source I read said it was a beach. I don't know, but it was
about twenty minutes away. They parked the car and the men all got out, and then Gil, the ringleader, who is humongous, like a six feet tall two hundred and sixty to two hundred and seventy pounds, got in the backseat, and when the girl struggled, he said, quote unquote, let me do what I want to do. And this whole story like makes me want to throw up because the girl is so young and it's just horrible all five.
Ways, guys, And this is I mean, we talk about this on the pod so much, but it's like American heroes, you know, yeah, like military, you're a hero.
Like fuck no, these are just men that think they can take what they want and like they're especially it's like you're like a guest in this country, Like what are you? You can't come at crimes. It's horrible. And so, according to Harp's lawyer, Ladette and Harp, the other.
Two guys feel like they're victims of this too. I'm sure they take no responsibility. We sure they're like this big guy made us. We had no choice. Yeah, but you think you're you think your heroes and in the military and deserve so much attention and accolades, and yet you don't even have the courage to stand up to a colleague.
Get yes, girl, you're gonna hear it all.
So Ladett and Harper apparently went into the backseat as well and saw how young the girl was and bailed. The confusing thing is that Harp signed a documents saying he committed the rape, and then later he said he just helped Gil do it, So it's really unclear whether he did it or not because he did confess and then he recanted his confession. Ladette said he only pretended to do it because he was scared of Gil, and everyone seems to back up Ladett's story, like he's really
mostly considered an accessory through most of this. Then they threw her out of the car after they were done and left. They were arrested by US military police two days later.
Who let them go with a pat on the back.
No no listen in this case actually, like this case actually became extremely political with and became a huge thing with US Japan relations. These men claim that they were being discriminated against because they were all black, and they said that their confessions were coerced and they recounted them and in the Japanese media, I thought this was interesting.
Photos of their faces were almost non existent, like they weren't splashed all over papers because they were worried that the angry public reaction as it was because people were extremely angry about how the attack and who these men were as military men, and how they were, how young the victim was, but they were worried that it would further develop into a race issue. But back in the US, I'm reading an LA Times article that goes Ldett is
literally a boy scout and a church usher. Gil took AP classes and played football and Harp's only criminal record was stealing five dollars from another student.
Good boys, like you.
Know, the whole slant of these stories is like who would have expected it? And it's like we hear this shit all the fucking time. So what happened after that, after they were arrested is because of the there's something called the US Japan Status of Forces Agreement, which grants the US military some privileges in Japan, and these men were because of that, These men were initially held on the US base, even though the crime was committed off
the base. There were rumors going around that these guys were like roaming free on the base, eating burgers, living their lives like nothing happened. But the US military says, no, we had them in a jail on our property. And I will say, when I went to Kuwait to do stand up for the troops. I did go to a Navy base where I saw the jail that they keep guys in when they commit crimes, like in Kuwait, they where they.
Keep the guys so they do exist. That's all I'm saying.
I don't know if they put the guys in there that much, but the people of Japan were obviously furious. They wanted these men turned over to Japanese authorities, which is the policy after formal charges are brought, which I think in our case would be called like an indictment.
So basically, these guys got.
Taken in on September sixth, and a couple of weeks go by and they're still not hands it over to Japanese authorities because they haven't been brought up on formal charges yet. There's all these anti American feelings in Okinawa as it is because of their presence there, and then this crime did not help any of that. So Okinawa was one of the most important American military outposts in
the Pacific at that time. Forty five thousand US troops were stationed there, and this led to a lot of debate about whether Japan should ask for a lighter presence from the US military so they were formerly indicted on September twenty ninth, and they moved into the custody of Japanese authorities. So whether or not they had this like twenty four day twenty three day, like you know, vacation
on their military base, who knows. On October twenty first, there was a huge rally to protest this incident and protest US military bases. Eighty five thousand residents participated in the rally in Ginowan City Ginewan City, sorry if from pronouncing that in quickly, and and that included the governor of Okinawa, Masahide Ota, and the largest protest in Okinawa
since this treaty was signed to nineteen sixties. So this really was like a huge up like this crime really caused a huge uprising in Japan due to the protests regarding jurisdiction. The US actually made some concessions and agreed to consider transferring suspects over to Japanese authorities beforeign indictment if the severity of the crime warrants it, which you would assume in this case, like a brutal rape of
a child, a murder like something like that. So this agreement was decided at an emergency meeting between Bill Clinton and Japanese Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto. So this crime is making like legislation and you know, international foreign policy happen. So the people of Okinawa also placed a full page ad in the New York Times decrying the rape and
other aspects of having the US base in Okinawa. And then in nineteen ninety six, the United States and Japan signed a bilateral agreement to reduce the amount of land on Okinawa covered by US basis by twenty one percent. So some change did come from this and the okay. So then US Navy admirals, remember one of these guys is in the Navy and two of them are in the Marines. The US Navy Admiral Richard C. Mack was the commander of the United States Pacific Command at the
time of the attack. At a press conference in November of ninety five, so two months after the attack, he said, quote, I think it was absolutely stupid. I have said several times for the price they paid to rent the car, they could have had a girl, meaning they could have just hired a sex worker. There was no need to do what they did. And like obviously these remarks were very much condemned, and he lost his job and he
was forced into early retirement. He also had his rank reduced to rear admiral, which is a two star, from a full star admiral from a full admiral which is a four star. So that's it means nothing to us, but that's a huge like shame probably in the military. And his pension got reduced from like seventy three hundred dollars a month to fifty nine hundred dollars a month, still living large. So eventually these three men were tried in Japanese court in March of nineteen ninety six, and
the cases were heard by three judges. They do not have jury trials in Japan, they have judges. So Gil pleaded guilty to rape, so even though he originally like recnced his confession, he pleaded guilty, and the other two pleaded guilty to conspiracy. Gil described the incident to the court in such graphic detail that the court interpreter broke down in tears.
Horrible.
Prosecutors asked for the max for each of them, which was ten years each. Harp's lawyer Matsunaga told the La Times that rape convictions under Japanese law normally result in three to four years, which does not seem like a lot, but the US court martial for rape in Okinawa has typically carried a minimum sentence of ten years. So Gil and Harp. Gil is the main guy, he gets seven years. Harp also gets seven years. He's the guy who first said he did it and then said he just helped.
The judges said they believed Ladette the real the guy who was the helper, who didn't actually commit a rape, and said that, but Harp had already confessed to the rape, and they could not rely on his later testimony that denied it. So they gave him seven But the other guy got six and a half. Ladette got six and a half. So that's I cannot believe that's what a judge feels is a fair punishment for like ruining the life of a twelve year old child.
But you know, this is Japan. They what they're But.
I looked up California and it feels like the sentences are more like ten years and then thirteen years if depending on the age of the child. If it's a child, it's a minor. Excuse me, that's what that's the word I'm supposed to be using if it's a minor, so we definitely have harsher sentences here.
But this feels like I don't.
Know why they would have gotten any leniency, and they wouldn't have all just gotten the max. Their families also paid monetary compensation to the family of the victim, which I guess is common practice in Japan. Darryl Johnson, who was the president of the Okinawa chapter of the NAACP, said the sentence was excessive. He said, quote excessive compared
to verdicts that would be given to Okinawan nationals. I'm not sure whether it's because they are American or African American end quote, And I'm like, it doesn't seem excessive to me at all for what they did. They like went on a hunting expedition. Are you kidding me? Like this wasn't like a he said, she said date rape situation, like this is a child that they kidnapped.
Also, is there not a kidnapping charge? I don't know.
I'm getting angry at Japanese court right now.
No, I'm honestly looking this Daryl Johnson guy up so I can write him an emails.
That's what I'm doing right now to think that.
That's not I just don't understand how no one thinks that that's a light sentence. I'm like truly sitting here in chakra right now that anyone thinks that this is an excessive sentence to rape.
I just like I don't understand.
Yeah, yeah, seven years feels like what you get for like dealing drugs or like a nonviolent robbery or something. But I mean, I'm also going by us where we're obsessed with the prison system, so maybe Japan has different situations, don't.
I don't think I'm obsessed with punitive like punishments. I just I'm like, if you are someone that is down with raping a twelve year old, I don't think you should be allowed to interact with humans.
Yeah, you're a danger to the public.
Like and if you're okay chilling while your friend does that, you shouldn't be allowed in public, Like I don't.
I don't think I'm the crazy one. Yeah.
Yeah, and not only that, you join the military, you're not even just a regular person, Like you have special privileges. You chose to have a gun, you chose to like have you know, I don't know, special key card, access to other privileges.
It's just like twisted.
Yeah, it's twisted for someone to say it's excessive.
Daryl Johnson, go fuck yourself. Yeah.
So these three men served prison terms in Japanese prisons. They were released during two thousand and three, so they all did their full sentence and they were given other than honorable discharge from the military. Seems like a very euphemistic way to say rapists. After their release, Rodriko Harp decried the prison conditions in Japan and said that the prison labor he was forced to do it was basically
like slave labor. Well, I mean, but that's that is true, and then this is wild Ladette, the one who claimed he didn't even do this, died in two thousand and six in an apparent murder suicide in the United States. He was found in the apartment of Lauren Cooper, who
was a Jew at Kenesaw State University. And I believe also that's the name of Erica Christensen's character in her episode Wildly, But she was a junior at Kanessas State University who he had apparently sexually assaulted and murdered by strangulation, and then he took his own life by just like cutting his arm open at the elbow and that's how he died. And he's the one that was the accessory.
Yes, but this is what we were just talking about four months ago. People like, if.
You can do that, yeah, what can't you do? Yes, this is what like if you can.
Rape or sit idly by while your friend rapes a twelve year old, I'm not shocked that you would fucking slice a woman's throat and take your own life, Like that's not Yeah.
Yeah, so that's that case.
I mean, it's like it's it's similar in the sense that it's like three men and it's not summer camp. It was more of a kidnapping situation. But and I unfortunately, like I can't find any information on like the victim. I wanted to see if maybe she had like you know, I bet Japan locks that shit down. Yeah, yeah, I think that's probably it. So there's no information on like how she's doing or anything. But if she was twelve and ninety six, she's in her like thirties by now,
so I hope she's been able to heal. But horrible, and I just like, ugh, just this idea of like you're in this are you in this country to protect people?
What are you in this country for? Why are you?
Like you just don't have any respect for the country that you're living in. And but these guys probably would have done something like this in the US too. It doesn't really have anything to do with the location. It's just fucked and it gives us all a bad name, all Americans when the military guys act like assholes.
Then it's also the theory of like men will just defend any other man, like this Daryl guy being like, I don't know, is this successive? Like why is your instinct not put them away for life? They raped a twelve year old? Fuck that guy, Like, I don't get the instinct to be like, I don't know. I think it's political.
I think it's political because he's the head of an organization that's you know that where he has to They asked him for a statement about this, and you know he has to look at it from that through that lens.
I guess I think the lens can be what a sad day and he makes all of us look bad. Yeah, I'm so glad someone that rapes twelve year olds is put away their.
Right, Like I don't I don't.
Understand how the nc NAACP how it's the advancement for their people to defend or think it's excessive to punish a rapist, like in what world? Right, change the race of the victim? Yeah, change the race of the victim? Like does then suddenly is the sentence successive?
Right?
Right?
It's just the it's just like the instinct, Like why is your instinct to defend the predator? Yeah, well that speaks volumes because I could be wrong all the time. I can be wrong often, but my instinct is always to defend the viac, Like you know, there could be instances when I'm wrong, but my but my instinct is always who's being victimized? Or like who is who is the power? Who lacks the power in the situation? Like, yeah,
what's going on? And then I could be wrong or like oh yeah, you're right, Like I think it's like important or like interesting, like where your instinct goes to who you empathize with or like who you want to side with? So often men like the instinct is to defend a predator, and that is confusing to me.
Yeah, this is a man defending other men about the sentence, Like I don't think he's condoning their crimes in any way, but he's it's about the sentence, and it's like, however you look at it, the sentence is too light for Okinawa Nationals. If you think that it would be more less f it's too light, like it's too light as it is. It makes you no like it truly is
mind boggling. But oh my god. On the Housewives they keep saying I'm mind boggled about this, Like, Wow, you're mind boggling me right now, and it's really cracking me up these days. Sorry, trying to get it onto a lighter note before we move on to our amazing guest. You guys are gonna love her. We'll be right back with that. Our guest today is an actor who has had her life saved by some of the best TV doctors out there, having recently been featured on Chicago Med
and Gray's Anatomy. But you can also catch her in a new Nicholas Cage vampire movie called Renfield out right now, very anticipated and she's in the very small cast.
And you guys know her today as.
The cardboard box busting hacker Camille Walters. Guys, please enjoy our convo with the lovely best Rouse.
I guess the first question seeing you, are you a natural curly haired woman or are you straightening your hair?
What's happening.
I'm a very very curly haired gal. I started straightening it around twenty eighteen, so.
Yeah, how'd you get good at it?
So you never straightened it before twenty eighteen? And then I've.
Not really like my mom, let me get it blown out once when I was thirteen, which was just major.
And but we're going to about mitzvah or something, well.
Yes, yes, it was mine.
Yeah, what was that theme?
Was ice skating because I was an ice skater in my childhood, so that was my theme. Yeah.
Do you ever get called in for parts where you'd have to ice skate?
Never?
Oh, they need to make it more prominent on your resume as a special skill.
I've never, I know, people ask that. I'm like, no, you know, I've never. I've never gotten the call.
This episode is wild. Tell us about Kara Loves Summer camp.
So I'm sure you were, well a fresh air Yeah, a fresh air campus. Yeah, I did love them going to a fresh air camp. But you tell us about your like like.
Law and Order journey.
You had done two episodes of Original Recipe before you did SVU, and so then did they just know you and kind of bring you in for this one? Did you have to audition? Did they get like, oh, how did it work?
Like it actually took me seven and a half years to get on SVU.
Wow.
Yeah, it's like, I mean it was worth it because I love the role of Camille and I love that episode and it was so special. But yeah, they'll tell you Peter Liedo ned Alita, you know sometimes so he and Neil Bayer and all those guys and Jonathan's jazz. Yeah, I would go in every year for seven and a half years, and I just I couldn't get it until I could.
Well, it wasn't that you couldn't It was you were waiting for the right one, right, Yes, waiting.
For the right one. It was a long, long journey. But I really do think it was worth it because had I gotten any of those other roles, I don't know that it had. Like that episode was so a really special episode.
So yeah, it's crazy.
Your character is like a genius hacker with a vendetta. I'm like, this is the girl with the dragon tattoo on SVU.
Which is so funny because your producer just had to help me do like every small technical thing to just get out of the zoom.
He had to like.
Help me write my name. It's just so funny that the technological thing is so far.
From shows how good the acting was.
Were you able to have fun shooting even though it's such an intense part or was it like serious hard work, which also I guess can be fun.
Yeah, I mean, I would say because also again it was my first big role. I was very very focused and not wanting to disappoint anyone and wanting to do my best. So I was really really kind of nose to the grindstone, and you know, there were some you know, everyone was so nice there, so like definitely there were moments of laughter, but I wanted to make sure I really kind of stayed in the zone and told the
story and just really didn't let anyone down. Let can you all down, let you know, the writers.
Or anybody, so totally well, you didn't.
It was It's real like I remember that, like I always remember your face from this. You know, there are five hundred episodes and we've seen all of the many times but like I always just like remember your face in the courtroom, Like I always remember you from this episode. So a very important question about the craft is that you busting out of that box in the episode?
Is that you coming out of it?
It really is.
Yeah, I love it.
I was like, is that a double because like your face is hidden, So I was like, maybe it's a body double or whatever or a stunt person.
No, and so they like to put you in a box.
And they were like, Okay, on the count of three, get out of the box.
I love this, And I had like an actual which you know, it's funny. I don't know because you know the times they are changing, you know, I don't know that I would be given this now, But I had an actual weapon in my hand in that box. It was like partially a box cutter and partially like a pocket knife or something. And so Needlelito was sitting right outside of the box and they would do a countdown. I would like, burst out of the box.
How many boxes did you guys go through?
You know, I don't remember that part, but.
If they had a lot of boxes on.
Deck, you know they I think they had it sort of like perforated inside so I knew what to like a cut through you could.
Like put yeah, maybe they put it back together a little bit every time.
Yeah, it was it was funny. That was That was the fun.
And so when you were when they caught you, like, you know, when Stabler is in that chair spins around, were you were you holding the real weapon there too?
No, I was holding like a needle.
Oh yeah it was the needle to Yeah it.
Was a needle, but yeah, I don't I'm pretty sure I think it was a real needle. I feel like I would have been told, like, you're holding a real needle, but yeah, it was a needle. And then and then Maloney had he had the gun.
Yeah wow, Yeah, how was working with him?
How was working with Chris Maloney?
Oh?
He was so so nice and both of them. I mean, I have a couple of wonderful story moments with Marishka and I just even to this day, I remember how generous they were and how like genuinely they were not only supportive, but really you could feel that they wanted
me to do well. And I remember when we finished that scene, Marishka said, you made it sing, you know, And they were just so like so many years later, I just still it still brings a smile to my face, and I think about how how just authentically nice they both were to me.
So that would you be open to sharing some of your stories that you remember?
Oh sure, well that was one of them. They're not they're not too extravagant. But I remember when I did the scene, you know, the very big monologue where I confess to what happened to me and yeah, you know why I did what I did. So the night before we were shooting, and it's so nice. Now, I was a stranger to Marishka, like she didn't know me, she was never going to see me again, and she pulled me aside and she asked me if I wanted to come to her home that night that she was hosting
a benefit gala at her home. And I was like, oh my gosh, what Like it was so just I don't know, she's a big star and I'm just like this, you know, kid, trying to like not mess up my first big TV role. And I was so grateful. I actually turned her down because I had my big monologue the next day and I was a read that oh gosh, like if I don't work on it, the night before and if I'm like out, oh.
My gosh, the dedication, I cannot even I would be like, I'm.
There, what's the dress code? I was just like, when I get it, you don't want to like be.
Out with the star of the show and then the next day be bumbling over your monologue Like that would be Yeah.
I just thought because the monologue was so big and so important to the episode, it was really like the clincher of the whole story, and I just wanted to be I think I had to know within myself, like if I messed up, at least I know I stayed home and like worked on it. But I'm.
How'd she take it?
Oh? She was lovely and she understood because she knew like what I had to do the next day. And it was also first thing in the morning. It was like the first scene up, so she completely understood. And then when we sat down to do that scene, and you could just feel the like I just still remember the feeling of the air in the room, you know, because the content was so unimaginable, you know. And I remember that she said to me, this scene belongs to
you kids. She's like, whatever you need, you tell me. And it was such like I in many ways, I credit anything I was able to do on that episode to her and to everyone around me, because how helpful is that to be having the big star of the show say that to you right before you have to deliver a model like that, you know, And I always always remembered it was so she was just so like truly kind, and I felt, oh, she really I'm okay, like I can do this. I mean I didn't say
anything like to even elicit her saying that. I was just sitting there like waiting for them to like set up the cameras, you know, but it was so so nice and yeah, so if there is anything about that that that worked out well, it was probably because she made me feel you know.
Yeah.
We just hear that so much from like everybody we talked to on this podcast that I feel like it's it's a really a huge contributor to why the show is successful, as she makes all the guest stars feel so so like at home that everybody delivers these amazing performances.
You know, it's like and she doesn't have to do that, you know, she.
Really doesn't, Like I was. I was just sitting there, you know, they they're setting up the lighting and the camera and they're kind of marking and she didn't have to say anything, but she she did, and I feel like, you know, it really set the tone and probably made me feel like I could, you know, go for it. And yeah, and I never forgot that because you always remember the kindness, like you know I do. Anyway.
Yeah, so, and how were the courtroom scenes? That's exactly what I was going to say. Yeah, I know it was just like that courtroom scene. You got to have an outburst. The judge yelled at you.
I mean that was great, a great scene.
I know the judge was really scared.
Camille meets her daughter.
Yeah, wasn't she the most beautiful little girl you've ever seen in your life?
So beautiful? But I looked her up. She's working, she's like.
She was a ladybird because yeah, yeah, when I was rewatching, I was like.
I know this girl. Yeah she's a beauty. She's Israeli.
Yeah, it's beautiful and she's so talented. Yeah the courtroom there's two things. One I remember learning. So I know I said a couple of times that I was so new still in my career and I was learning just how things go. And so they were doing Kevin Alejandro's coverage. So Kevin is the one who it was actually him, he who impregnated me during the right during it he so it was our child. And when he was on the stand, the camera was like not even remotely, when
I tell you, it was fully on Kevin. Like, I don't know what I was thinking, but for some reason, I thought I had to be at my fullest emotional in that scene. So I was doing all of my lines and everything as if the camera was on me, which you don't have to be at full emotion when the camera's not on you. And I'm like weeping for hours and hours and the camera was only on Kevin.
Wait, but how do you even weep for hours? Not to change the subject fully, but like how do you do it for hours?
Well? You kind of you have to. And I think if if you lose yourself in the character, I mean, I bet you Kumille weeped for years years. Ours is probably nothing.
So did anyone say anything to you as you were weeping off camera?
No, Kevin, Elijandra was just like thank you so much, like you really, you know, because I didn't know that I could like just do the same but not have to. But in a way, I was glad because if it helped Kevin, that is great. Like, in a way, I'm kind of glad that I didn't even know, because you know, it allows you to like save it for when the camera turns around or something. But yeah, that was I learned about when the camera is completely facing another direction, it's not on you.
But now you know, now you know.
Yeah.
This other thing I remembered was when they take Kevin out, when he starts screaming and he confesses, like we did it, we did it. He said there was something that was not in the script, and he said, I'm sorry, Camille, I'm so sorry. And it like my heart broke into a million pieces because it wasn't in the script. But he was so good and he was so genuine in his commitment to the character or whatever his choices were.
That it was. That moment was I thought was amazing because he it wasn't even in there.
Did you watch the episode?
I did watch the episode when.
It came out, Like, like, were you like friends, family come over?
Were you like I have to watch this by myself?
I mean I went to a friend's house but I remember thinking like, oh, I didn't do this, This didn't like I remember not you know, kind of doing that thing of where you you know. But then later I had seen it you know again like over the years, and you know, I'm really happy with it, and I always am probably going to think it's a special episode.
I just felt Also it was written, you know, Chris Broncato was the writer, and it was written so deeply, like so it just stood out to me as almost something that would be like on streaming for cable, you know, it was it was really I don't know, maybe I'm biased because.
I got to be in it.
I don't know.
Do you get texts because you know, as the beew reruns all the time, Like, do you get hollered at kind of sporadically?
I do. It's like it's like the only thing people have like pretty much ever seen me.
Well speaking, yeah, like other stuff, Well, you've done like a lot of like other procedurals and stuff, right, You've done like Chicago at like a different procedurals.
Well we had a fun game.
Yeah, all you needed help Grey's Anatomy or Chicago Med.
Which doctors would you want?
Oh? Probably Grey's Anatomy. I mean, it's a hard decision. They were both great, but yeah, I think Gray's Anatomics. Well I think I got my life saved on both.
Oh well that's good.
Well yeah, so can you talk to us about ren Field. That's like this hot new movie that's coming out, Like, my husband is a big Dracula guy, so excited to see it. And you're I think you're Are you in a scene with my friend Brandon Scott Jones.
I am in several scenes with Brandon Boas.
Yeah, the whole cast seems so fun. Tell us about it.
Yeah, it's a great cast. I mean I probably laughed more on that set than ever, like in any job. I mean, it was just so everybody was really funny and fun and it was just a good vibe and a lot of just like really silly people who just like And we shot overnight most of the time, so there was some like delirium, but like overnight funny where you're so tired, and I mean, I hope, I hope it turns out great. Everything I saw was you know,
just like really strong actors. And I've done adr a few times, like I you know, just did it a couple of weeks ago again, and so I've seen a little bit of it.
And it looks what is it coming out? Do you know?
Yes? It comes out on April fourteenth.
Everybody goes see Renfield. I can't wait to see you in it. How exciting? And who do you play?
Like?
What do you play? Are you spooky?
I don't know per universal what I'm allowed to say, but I know what's been publicly stated, which is that. So my character's name is Caitlin, and I play a member of a support group for people in abusive relationships. Okay, wow, I probably can't elaborate.
Don't tell us anymore. But I have to get to go to the premiere and have fun.
And you can bring in some of your SVU, your SVU skills into that role. I'm sure you did. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us.
Oh, thank you.
She was so nice. I can't believe this is coming out so.
Close to her movie. Everybody.
I know my husband's definitely going to go see Renfield. I think it's gonna be too bloody for me. Even what we do in the shadows, like fake bloody, is like too gross for me.
Oh, I forgot to tell you.
I watched M threegan in first class and I loved it.
It's funny, it's great. I watched it again. It was great. It was really fun.
Wait, Casey, but you know what, her best friend Micah is also a mean girl.
She's also evil.
Yes, she also just.
Wants to be on TV and didn't like that guy at all and is trying to steal another girl's man.
This is our.
Post mortem for the episode as more Love is Blind. We just can't stop talking about it.
Well, it's exciting for Casey and I to connect. Yeah, Casey's the co host.
There should be a time where, like I can't make it and you guys, instead of rescheduling, it's just Lisa and Casey host together. That would be so funny. Anyway, this episode is wild. I consider this like a classic one. I always remember the like a ruiner like branding all that stuff in this episode. So but I'm also glad that there's weird little bit of a happy ending who buys.
Vacuums, you know what I mean. It's like get a Dice Center bus.
But it's from the episodes older so like, I guess, but why does this building thing someone's getting a vacuum. I guess it's different people, different buildings, but yeah, I get back attack.
It's so funny. It's so the best vacuum you can buy.
Yeah, and I guess if you guys are I think we need to stop with all the guys that are just like helping out while their friends.
Right, people, you guys need to stop. You're just as guilty.
You all need to fucking step up and say let's not do this and maybe use some physical force to stop this from happening. Because that's both stories, the episode and the true But fuck man, the real story was so sad. Anyway, should we move on to this week's what would Sister Peg do?
A real quick post mortem? This is our quickest ever.
I know this is a fast, little, fast, little one, but who knows how long our episode was.
Also, if you have icy blue eyes, be careful where you jiz, because an icy blue eyed daughter will come out, yes, out your ass, and.
They don't even need DNA, they just match those eyes. So let's move on to what would mister Peg Do? This is our weekly segment where we point you guys to a resource that can help flesh out a little bit more of what we talked about in today's episode, But today I wanted to just direct you guy to the Fresh Air Fund, which is the camp that the camp that Camille went to is based on. Obviously what happened to her was not good at that camp, but in real life, the Fresh Air Fund is a life changing,
free summer experience. It was founded in eighteen seventy seven. It's the Sleepwoy camps or in New York's Mid Hudson Valley and they serve eight to fifteen year olds that attend school in New York City. And as you all know, camp is huge for me, and it's a hugely life changing and transformative experience, and I just love that this organization helps give that to kids who live in this major urban area and might not otherwise have the chance. So if you'd like to donate or learn more about it,
go to fresh air dot org. And that's fresh air dot org. And that will as always be on our highlights. It will be in our stories on the day of the show release, and then it will be in our WWSPD two highlights.
Thank you so much with that, we know how much you love camp.
And next week we will be doing Inheritance and that's season three, episode eight, So rewind your times and hit up. You're Hulu and Peacock, and thank you so much for listening. We appreciate and are obsessed with all of you. Bye, guys, That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.
Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien, and to.
Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henrika Perski for our theme song and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
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