Blinded w/ Arye Gross

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

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Done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up at SVU Podcast.

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Well, what's up sell me everything?

Yesterday was one of the best days of my life and I was at Simpson's Trivia Slash Costume Contests Slash.

It was October first, so started the season.

The head girl of the Brooklyn Simpsons Trivia is a listener. She did tell me after she listens to the pod, so that is a thrill. Hello, Gray, and they killed us.

They asked us to host it back when you lived here and we and I was like, we don't live in New York. But Lisa, this is right up her fucking alley. I'm like a lover of the Simpsons first six seasons maybe and then never again. So you are like the biggest Simpsons freak I know. So this is like a match made in heaven. I wouldn't use the word freak, and I would.

These are these are then I wonder how you would feel at Simpson's Trivia, but it was the knowledge was deep. I mean, so the other two judges so and okay, So it's at the gutter where I do stand up all the time.

So I know the bartender.

I see him on Wednesday as I've been performing at that show for years, and.

I showed up. He's dressed as most Lack.

There's a duff beer and so I'm like, oh, I'm about to have the time of my life.

And the it was just it was cool.

And then what they did and now I know I sex and my sex and the City Trivia night was a disaster. I did learn a lot from the Simpsons trivia night. They watched an we watched an episode in between each round where they get to like tally what they need to tally. So in between each round there's an episode on. So that's really fun.

Oh cute, So you don't like lose any momentum because everybody's having fun watching Simpsons.

Yes, yeah, but I loved deliberating.

I love the little parade of people they delivered, Like everyone did line readings and there's tons of different costumes and it's like it was really hard and yeah, but four people won and then we just loved some people so much. There were on our mentions. But there was a man who got upset he was not winning. I guess there was a tantrum. I guess there was yelling. I mean I was pretty wasted by that point. I was.

I was on cloud nine, so I kind of missed it.

But he was annoying me the whole time, Like he annoyed me, and he had a great costume. It just wasn't original and it's been done before, so like that's part of it, you know, And it was a great costume. It didn't tickle her fancy. Sorry.

How many judges were there?

Were?

You and who else.

It was me and two other people, Sarah and Jim. And Sarah knew all the answers, but there are people getting perfect like it was wild.

How many answers did you know?

So I probably knew maybe like three per round, but they also knew them and the only time I only had one answer that the two of them did it.

Now, Wow, Oh I'm shocked. I always feel like you would know every deep cut.

No, that's not my thing, Like I don't quote, that's like not yeah really my skill set.

But you did a sex trivia where everything was so specific that everybody got mad.

So I thought maybe that but that's yeah, it's because I did a bad job.

Yeah, it's me planning.

I have over fifty pages of questions for sex and the City, and I might have gone too intense. I didn't have an episode playing like the people revolted, like this is a very well done night. People went all out and there was a baby. There was a baby. There was a krusty baby. Krusty the character of the clown not like a disgusting krusty baby.

Uh, genius, like such a tent like so cool.

And then it was like he was like the crusty doll and the parent had a shirt that was is this good and evil switch? I mean, I feel like i'm but it was. It was impressive. I loved people's creativity. Oh so then this man rights to the trivia night being like, hey, when I have to get this message the guy who didn't, Oh my god, and they responded so well, I'm like so into how they responded.

So he wrote, I know you all.

Weren't the judges, but I'm livid I wasn't even top five. And then the monocle, the monocle emoji like the smiley face, being like, excuse me what, and they responded, I know you made that very clear. So I thought that was like a pretty good response where it's like, yeah, we know you're mad, Like honey, it's a funny const I really fought for someone that, you know, like it happens. People were better than it's what are we talking about.

What the fuck?

The prize was venus Gummy de Milo statues on like a pillow. So it was cute, but everyone got a button and the best team name wins as well, but people come every single.

Month, so that's like, wow, it's amazing.

None of my Simpsons friends like I My love is the like the visual, you know, I like I like to own the stuff. I like the merch and I like the stills, like I like following the instagrams where it's just like this is so fucking cute.

Oh but I haven't even wilder thing. Oh my god.

So the winners to me were it was it was this guy with the big hand. He's like, I'm sick of being made fun of with my big hand. It was it's a two person costume and it was very very good. And so I ended up talking to them after. Oh my god, did I not post them? I did, Okay, So then after the so that's that was like all of our favorites. We because what we did it was all the judges we wrote each one on our own.

Like we were very impressed.

So I'm talking to them after they've want They've they've been doing this costume contest like multiple years in a row where chatting.

Taylor Swift comes up. We're talking Taylor.

All of a sudden she looks at me and she goes, were you at Coney Island July fourth?

And I go, oh my god.

And she was the one that commented on my bracelet when I was in mine with Lane to go into the ball thing.

She was behind me in line. Wow, yeah, my.

Blue dress on a boat bracelet And I was like, oh my god. So that was like pretty exciting as well. Small fucking world, man, that's cool. Yeah, people went all out like that. It's like it's a delicate balance because you can't be too obscure. This person was too obscure, but I was like obsessed, and it can't be too easy even if it's fun, Like I really like the rainbow wig George Bush, but like you got a wig.

You know, you can't win. Yeah. There was like a muppet here.

There's like a whole situation and they act out scenes.

So some people like all had like fun lines and stuff.

And there was a group project where there was like seven men and I'm like, for seven men to get a costume ca test.

Together, for seven men to organize anything good?

They well, and that the gutter, like the hallway into this back room is the toilets. It's like, it's disgusting. But they were all spray painting in the hallway and I was like, this is fucking cute. So we gave them an honorable mention. I'm like, all these men got together bought cloaks. I can't even believe it. Impressive, impressive. So yeah, sorry if that was just babbling on and on, but it was just so fucking fun.

I love I'm bad sounds really that sounds like perfect, a perfect evening for you to judge a Simpson's costume contest.

I mean perfect. Yeah, I mean we took I'm serious, we took it serious. And then and then I kind of you know me. So then we're talking and outside, I go, okay, how about we do honorable mentions and I'll give all of them twenty dollars And they're like, okay, I don't.

Think we should be handing out doll and I was like, you're right. I just they're like, because other people had good costs. Like she's like, what are.

You doing and I'm like, no, no, you're right, and she goes Because the statue might not even be worth twenty dollars and I'm like, no, I just take it too far.

You are a stranger to me. It's fine, I'll relax, you know.

Yeah, well that sounds really fun.

Yeah, if you're not and you're into that, I would go.

Yeah, in Brooklyn at the Gutter, everybody go to the Simpsons trivia.

That was a team that only got like four points total over three rounds. Like it's really hard, Like it's not really, it's very competitive.

It's very hard, and yeah, that's like there's certain people that are good at that. Like I love thirty Rock, but my brother has seen every episode of thirty Rock one thousand times and knows every single character in every single phrase, and like like he goes to that crazy thirty Rock trivia nights and like does well. And I'm like, I'm more of a general knowledge kind of gal about a lot of different things, but I do love trivia.

Well. How animation is harder too, because I think I could do a sex and the City's Seinfeld easier than even Simpsons or this fandom is just so intense.

Well, also, that's the City is six seasons and how many is Simpsons?

Thirty?

Yeah, but this is nice they don't do.

It's only ninety Simpsons. Yes, yes, still, it's a lot. It's a lot of episodes, a lot of a content.

Speaking of animation, so deep, like it just runs deep. Like while we were watching the episodes, people were like screaming the lines out altogether.

Yeah, it's it's deep.

But I'm sure I probably have one of the better collections of things. Yes, of vintage merch, I'm sure, Oh my god. And I loved my costume, but one girl was shady. I will not name names, but uh well, I don't know anyone's name.

I was new there. But I won't name names because I can't name names.

But you know, I bought the shirt off at the I'm not part of the contest, like I'm just a judge, but like, you know, I want to just so. Someone was like, oh, yeah, I love that for like an easy costume, and I was like, you bitch, Oh shut up, you.

Bitch, So like if you don't want to, like actually use a hot glue gun, I guess that's cool.

I got the hat too.

Yeah.

Wait, speaking of animation, did I tell you I took my kids to see the Wild Robot.

I have not even heard of that you haven't.

Oh my god, that's so funny because if you're going to see any kids movies lately, like it's been the preview. It's like the big dream works like Fall movie, Like it's based on these books that people love, and Lupita Nango is the voice of the robot. Then there's like a fox and he's Pedro Pascal. But it's the books are apparently amazing, amazing, amazing. I haven't read them yet. My children are not into chapter books yet. But the movie is so good, so beautiful. I cried inces I

I'm like, I don't know this one.

It's just like it's beautiful, it's gorgeous, it's wonderful.

Wow.

I really loved it. I really like it. Yeah, they really liked it too.

They really liked it too.

They you know, Oscar gets to a point always at a movie where he's like, Okay, it's time for me to stand up now and watch the movie while I bang on someone else's seat, and I have to stop him from doing that. He only did it for like a second and I was like, so sorry, and then he stops. But he also gets very mad and we run out of candy, like when we ran out of M and ms and he's yelling, I want more ass and we're like in a quiet movie. So I had

But yeah, fun, little fun, little hout to the movies.

Yeah, because I haven't seen a movie in a while that I was like, I really love that. And then the next day of the weekend, I was out the whole fucking day, like dead with a cold, so sick, and uh the kids they went out and they did fun shit. But uh oh, and I went to Chuck E Cheese on Friday, so maybe that's where I got the cold.

We went to Chuck E Cheese. That's actually exactly where you got it.

That's where I picked up all the germs. We went to Chuck E Cheese. It was fun, it was like a pta thing and I just got with some of the moms. I know, we're all just like talking, shit, how are the PTA War's going?

Oh?

Everything is going well. So did I talk about this on the podcast?

I like said it kind of slow. You might have said it somewhere else or we were just talking.

So I don't know anybody that sends a kid to my school listens to our podcast. But in case, I mean no, there's just like there's just there's two programs at our school, and there's sometimes people feel like they're not equal. So there was elections to be able to decide where the money goes in the school. And I ran with a bunch of moms from my class and we did win.

So that was you never even told me why? Yeah, thank god, Yes we won.

But it was crazy because I was I was at the last podcast network about to go live on this insane bonkers show that they do that Ed Larston hosts. That's like called Hoop a Googo, and it's like you basically are in the future. No one has names anymore, and you have to look at the brighter side of different search situations. You have to say why this is a good thing that happens, So they'll give you different situations and then the audience votes on whether who has

I have to be like, but I know race, Like, was it like Bad Moms the movie?

Like what was like Republicans? It was Republicans versus Democh. It was literally everybody that voted you had to say your votes out loud Lisa, so you had to go, my vote is for Lisa, Kara, Casey, Susie whatever, like that's what you had to do. And so everybody said their votes out loud. Everybody that voted for me voted for the same other four people. Everybody that voted for

But I was like better, ask, yeah, but why are we doing this?

Out loud.

Why is it all like some kind of voting like software. It's because it's all online. It's because it was on zoom, you know, like if it was in person, it probably would have just been like dropping a ballot into a bag or something.

But yeah, it was. But it was stressful.

It was stressful, like everybody was like, and then one woman tried to go, well, can Kara even win if she has to leave? Because I was going to cast my vote and then go, and they were like, can she even win if she if she has to leave? And they were like, actually, she can. She just needs to accept her nomination and then she can. But somebody was trying to get me out, like so it was school drama, like it was funny though.

I think you're gonna rule. Well, I think it's gonna be good. I mean because balance I am.

I'm not trying to give anybody anything.

Actually, I'm trying to spread it out amongst the whole school, Like I'm not really trying to make sure any program gets more money than another program.

And that's my thing. Ye know, say you're right, it's so h left wing right wing. It was absolutely like down the middle.

Nobody was like we all had to give a little like introductory, not like speech, but like a couple of lines about ourselves. No one listened. No one was like, oh, wit, actually this girl's actually done a bunch of budget stuff before. Maybe we should nominate her.

Like everybody just voted for who they were told to vote for when they came on.

So it was, you know, school drama.

Well, congratulations on your PTA win my victory.

I mean it's not even part of the PTA, but thank you so much. It's like, that's how many different school groups there are. So now I'm involved in two different school groups, and I'm also the room parent, still doing that.

What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? Some people have to sit behind a desk all day.

At least I have a little bit more of a job where I have a little bit of extra, you know, daytime time to go to the school, going into help with art on Friday. They need help with art, So I go in now sometimes on Fridays to help with the art projects. It's so funny. It's like twenty kids yelling Rosie's mom at me, all right, the second flag has been waived. And but I do have to say I also not okay, I've been partying like I'm like twenty four again only a few days.

But it's Greek havoc on my life. I am slugging through life in a way you don't imagine. Like I've been waking up at six in the morning chugging gatorades like it's not it's not pretty. But also I have found time to watch three full complete shows in this week.

So I watch did reach? Okay? So I watched a Perfect Couple? Oh, I ask you if you were watching that.

I watch Nine Perfect Strangers, and I watched.

How to Die Alone. Oh that's right.

So How to Die Alone one of the best news shows out there. I'm a contender, like fantastic, funny, heartfelt, shocking, unique, cool, good good, it's so good. Nine Perfect Strangers, bawling all night, watched it till six in the morning. And then Perfect Couple. So many podcast people, it was kind of fun, but it was.

The Perfect Couple written by former guest of our show, Jenna Lemia.

Yeah, and then Michael Beach is in it, Megan fay He and you know, Dakota Fanning is having a moment.

So I'm like really excited about that. Like, I'm happy to be on.

Her uh her ride, and she just had like a really cool I think with the cut or some sort.

Of Yeah, that's probably what I thought to where they were like she's got a long career ahead of her, and I was like, good.

For you, good for you?

Well, yeah, I thought she's been working for decades.

I mean, we're lucky to have her, and I'm happy the Fanning sisters are getting what they deserve.

Yeah, yeah, amazing. So yeah, would Perfect.

I'm gonna watch that, and I'm gonna watch Natasha's I don't know if I can. You told me you don't think I should watch Perfect Strangers, right, I definitely don't think you should watch nine Perfect.

Okay, I'm gonna watch any pickup and I'm gonna watch I'm gonna watch How to Dialge.

I love Natasha Rothwell.

We were both on a showcase once together where she was Maya Angelou drunk at a wedding was her sketch and it was so fucking funny, Like I've always thought she was so talented and I love her.

I love her. Well, let's get started. I wanted to give one more, but the listeners can tell us if they disagree. I do not think Kara should watch Nine Perfect Strangers.

Yes, right, and see dm us and let us know, please please, Maybe we'll do a poll.

One more little plug too.

I have this new advice Colin show with Jackie Zebrowski called Who's the Bitch? If you guys can subscribe and listen to it and watch it, I would love it so much.

That's that.

Should we get started. We've got a great guest today, We've got a great show.

We do it. Okay, we are doing Blinded. Who sings by the light? Wrapped up like a the middle of the night?

I don't know.

And also, what's the word they're saying, blinded by the light? It's by Manfred Man's earth Band.

Shut the fuck up?

Yeah, I wish I was lying wrapped up like a deuce, another.

Runner in the night. I never knew what they were saying. I think I thought they were always saying douche like. I didn't know what they were talking about.

No, no, no, no no.

Yeah, I didn't even know those were the same songs. But now it all makes sense, all right? Blinded Blinded two thousand and seven, Season nine, episode seven. We open up on one of our favorite sassy ladies in the Sview universe. Sylvia Cotter's also in the episode Contact and Quickie and Contact. We just did so if you remember the old lady there, she's back here. Yeah wait in Contact, she's the one who's Is she one of the ladies

Is he here?

No?

Wait, I think she's she walks someone into the apartment and has an attitude or maybe that's another elderly attitude woman.

She's great, She's a great She's just a great addition to any episode. We lost her in twenty sixteen, but she's was a great addition to all svus.

Yes, and there's a unique cop walking with her behind them is Lush a lush plant shop Deli Vibes bores head brand glowing in the distance. You know he collies spread recently, so I hope they've gotten that back together since then. He is not believing what she saw, and she has to remind him that she is not some senile old bitch.

And I think that's in quotes.

And but at the bus stop, she heard a voice from a trunk yell out help me, and then either Savannah or Samantha or something. And then he goes Sabrina and she goes, yes, so she's not crazy, actually, sir, and get to fucking work. So he goes to his hot dog guy Sanjay and is like, what up. Did you hear something? He goes, yeah, I saw a girl. She was there two hours of YadA YadA bus stop toad. So a car's been toad. He calls it in and

In a trunk there's a girl.

Stabler holds her and runs off because the traffic is so insane that they're I'm not going to be able to get an ambulance and so yeah, he's got to carry her and he runs you know off into the credits. So Benson and Stabler are met with the doctor who gives scoop there's a concussion, probably hit what by a rock. We'll see when she wakes up. She has been raped, no fluids, but hair's and bruising. She is only eleven.

I need your badges? What are your numbers?

And then he scoffs and he's like listen, sorry, but thanks for obliging my eccentricity. And they're like, thanks for your time, and we'll figure this all out. So they leave and Picard's story checks out. He returned the car, but how did it end up at the bus stop? So Benson and Stablor get some coffees and start chats. Stabler says they ran out of spots in the garage, so the attendant left the car on the street with the keys inside, and when he came out, it was gone.

He's getting all his nutrition from a bodega, which is troublesome, but.

Like I understand even a sandwich a day, even too, with some snacks. Maybe he ran in for toilet paper a couple a dozen times in three days. There's got to be another bodigo across the street. He had an inkling to try. Yeah, you're in New York City. There wasn't dumplings on the corner. I'm just a little bit shocked. But maybe it was just alibi related. I mean, I don't know. It seems like all his shit checks out though.

What is that?

It was just part of the animaniacs like Pinky in the Brain Hour, Like there was just another guy named freak Azoid. He doesn't This guy's kind of familiar hot, you know, kind of hot.

The blue face. Steven Spielberg presents freak Azoid. That's hilarious.

Steven Spielberg is so weird, Like I didn't realize he was minority report, Like he's just out there working. I can't believe he did freak Azoid. Yeah, it says, that's what it says. Two seasons. Steven Spielberg presents Freakizoid. Yeah.

I came out in ninety five. I think I was I missed it. I was like fifteen or fourteen, so I missed it.

Yeah, I don't even remember what his thing was a crazy teenage superhero who fights crime good.

In Washington, DC.

Wow. Important. But then Benson goes, this guy's dirty. His shower was bone dry, and it's like, wait, fuck, what if I showered yesterday? Like I don't like it's when they find two wine glasses and they're like, this slut.

You know, I know you're jumping.

The weird conclusions, like he could have showered at the gym relaxed, bone dry? Are our bones dry? Is the blood knot flowing around them? Aren't the muscles moist on the bottle?

I think it.

Maybe is implying like a dead body bone, like if it's buried for long years, like a bone lasts for a long time.

And it's dry. I don't know, got it, got it, cut it whatever? The bedroom was messy again, stop judging. But no sign that Sabrina was there, So we got to go back to the Impala.

That's all we got.

Doyle found pollen on the driver's seat and on her clothing, and the sample is so small it could only come from close contacts. It cannot be circumstantial. And it's from the south and it's from where this motherfucker's from. They had him and they let him go. They bust back into the apartment, clear, clear, clear, everything is gone. And so what they finally figure out is, oh, he returned the car, but then when he left the building he saw the key's still in the ignition. He stole the

And I like when they admit that they fucked up. They're like, we had him and we let him go. Like I liked when they admit their fallibility.

But Craigan was He was supportive. He's not as mad as he could have been for this. He didn't yell. He was just like, you know what, no press, but DNA not in the system. And the Phibbies, which I assume is the FBI, have nothing on him. And that's from Finn. Finn calls him the phibbies, and I like

No, they did not. What the fuck is going on?

He also didn't actually check out of the apartment, and he has not bought any tickets to leave town, so he is sticking around town. Everyone's on alert. We're looking for a blue Explorer. Holy shit. Benson gets a call and Sabrina's awake. She needs, like, you know, a nose tube to help breathe and her around the head. Bandage goes above the head as well. It's a little more aggressive than my liking. She is a very insured, full scalp head helmet and a lot of gus. But she's

You gotta come for me. Your mom's waiting for you.

So they go outside from the coffee place bookstore situation, but she wasn't outside and then and that's why they couldn't find her on the camera. It's kind of I think it's a Barnes and Noble so part coffee part bookstore. They walk out of the coffee part. That's why it wasn't on the camera or anything like that if you were wondering. And then she gave him her address because he's like, hey, I'll take you home. Your mom was hurt, but you know, and then he drove in the wrong directions.

How does Stable or not? Yeah?

Yeah, Stable doesn't know that there's an arc to Triomphe in Washington Square Park, but he does know alphabetically like every single Catholic school in all the boroughs.

I don't buy this. I don't buy this at all. Like I just think of that arch immediate.

I don't know.

I didn't even know it was a copy of a French one. I'll be honest. That was the Washington Square Arch. Finn goes, you know there's a fake Leaning Tower of Pisa next to Skokie. Well, that's that's not in Italy. It's by the Costco. Oh, that's that's really funny. I love to go to see that.

We have to.

I don't know what I'm gonna make it to Pisa, but I think I'll probably be around Skokie sooner rather than later.

Oh is Pisa down?

Yeah, he says a city in Italy. That's where the tower is. I've never been there though, I didn't know that. Oh you know that show Subway Take. I guess I shouldn't ruin it. I finally think I have a subway take. You watched that internet show?

Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, I've seen it. Jared was just on it right.

Yeah.

I think Crembroulet is the most overrated dessert.

Oh my god, my mouth is on the floor. You guys can't, so is Casey. It's one of my faves. It's one of my faves. I love it so much. It's just like I'd rather have pudding get out of here, but with the crunchy sugary top. Oh see, that's what sells me, the pudding whatever. It's like, I'm sold on the crunchy sugar that I get to eat. Yeah, and then mixed with the mush because it's like the coumbo of the textures for me. But yeah, I mean that is a good take. I feel that people are gonna

You know. Yeah, it's one of my nephew's favorites.

I'm one of my friends just had a crumberlay donut and I was just like, oh, I love a Crumberwlay donut. Like if I see it on a menu, I'm like, yes, maybe I'm getting dessert tonight.

Like, and I don't always do.

Dessert, but what I do? I love a crumbrulet. Okay, And then but Finn is like, wait, Washington Square Park, there's nowhere to hide. And then Lake goes, wait, there's an arch in Brooklyn at Prospect Park. So they rush to the arch there and is that a fake arch? Is that a replica arch? Or is that an original arch? Which one the Grand Army Plaza? Is that what it's called, the one by the Prosa Park. I don't know if that arch is a replica. Should I look it up really quick?

Nah?

I mean we're here.

There's beautiful arches everywhere. So they rush. They're driving on the grass. They're meeting a bunch of people already on the scene, lots of manpower chopper in the air. Sabler, though, convinces the lieutenant on duty to let him go first into the parking Woods because we don't know how this man operates in the commotion and big manhunt choppers might scare him off. And Lieutenant says okay, So Stabler and

Yes, that's so funny. Alice in Wonderland.

We love that girl, Allie, Yeah, that's really funny.

Yeah, she's not a princess.

I feel like Alice doesn't get the like respect she deserves. She traveled through realms, like I'm sorry she didn't have a crown, but we don't get as much merch for her.

No, only the little weird goth girls like her.

But Stabler's asking real questions and then this guy's responding with nonsense, babbel. Sabbler's trying to you know, get you know, the Miranda rights out and this guy just keeps babbling politics, cars, whatever. And then a driving billboard catches his ibe. He stares it down as it drives past, and it says Winter's coming. Time to escape, So it's probably vacation, but it also could be Game of Thrones.

But I think this is too early.

Yeah, Okay, So he takes the billboard as a personal message and he goes, ah, do I have to do it? And he's like, it's really gonna be hard, but I gotta get away, and so he had butt Stabler one of Kara's favorite scenes, and he crushes the back of his head into the back seat window glass. Everywhere he hits the crowd the ground, there is no crowd. He is not surfing on the hands of anyone. But but Card starts running hands tied behind his back, which I feel like is a cool exercise. I bet that like

Just oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, interesting because you just want to like get your hand, like change your posture and like get your hands off those bars for a sec.

Yeah.

The if you stand up stating the resistance is how you feel it more in your abs. Yeah, like you have to use more stuff. And my you know you got my abs are not strong and a capacity in any way, and so that's that is far back problems and we got to keep our backs.

So I also have I mean weak abs. I got all.

But I knew a girl who got injured because she only did abs like a llah Britney spears in high school and then she injured her back because all of our abs were so Britney speared out, but no one was focusing on their back eow. I never knew about that. Yeah, so, and I barely do anything else, so I tried to smart. I'm learning. I am really learning a lot. I did not understand. I did go to school for a few semesters to be a PE teacher.

So that's just something we got, you know, physiology.

Yeah, when we were in Palm Springs, it came out that I was like a PE major, and one of the people there was like, we could tell with your skills playing five hundred that we were born to be a gym teacher. You know. I left scraped my legs look like I was in recess. I have like bloody marks all over my legs. They're so bruised up from that weekend from climbing in and out of the hot

I could.

I didn't know I was physically capable of it, but I pushed myself fully out in one thing and put my leg out to try to win.

Wow.

Yeah, everyone was shocked late so beat me, but like I pulled myself out in one swoop and not even my knee. I put my full foot like. I was like, wait, it was exciting. That's a really exciting movie moment. I could not do that. Yeah, I didn't think I could either. I bet if you because you're competitive, I bet if you were in the game, you would do.

If it was achieve a greater good. Yeah I might. I might, yeah, for the glory.

But also while we were in the pool, every time I would stand somewhere, I'd be like, oh, let's oh two monkeys or a monkey, and someone was like, do you only see people as monkey? Stop it, We're not monkeys. We're just standing here, and be like I'll be the monkey. They're like, we're not even playing this, but we both like games, so yeah, it makes sense, all right?

All right.

So basically, the guy gets the message, she goes, do I have to do it? It's gonna be hard. He crashes into Stablers. Stabler's hurt, and Pocard is off running. He then runs with his hands tied behind his back, which to me is tough tough, so he doesn't get far. He does get caught, apprehended, and then they bring him to the hospital because he is fucked up. Benson runs to help Elliot. She cradles him and says, you're gonna be okay. He has limp and lifeless in her arms.

Is there a chance it won't?

And the doc is like, listen, hopefully it'll be chill, but we'll know in a few days, like I'm not a magician.

And then what do we have in Picard's room?

Special Agent Wayne Nelson And he looks like Gronk's uncle and he's trying to take over, and Craigan says, hell, no, bitch, and Finn looks menacing behind him, and the FBI guy is like, he moved between state lions, from Mississippi to Louisiana. He kidnapped a girl in Mississippi, raped hero in Louisiana, and left her there to die.

We will be taking him.

They're swabbing him in the background, hoping all the DNA matches, and we cut to Munch giving a report. So the girl from Mississippi, Tiffany La March, nine years old. Fuck so this only happened a week ago. She was found four days ago, barely alive. So then dian neil Waltz is in with a giant brown belt on top of a white button down shirt. It is not holding any pant up. This is a fashion belt of the times if I've ever seen one.

You're actually dressed like her right now?

Really?

Yes?

Oh it's great.

It looked white and she was wearing a brown sweater with the brown belt. But then the waves, you know, you both have like similar oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but of course hers were colorly challenged. And they're charging per card with interstate kit, you know. And then it's like, wait, but who called the feds? Nobody knows. They're blaming each other. You did it, No you didn't, but fuck that. We didn't know how to get him back. So they don't know how to get him back. But what the the

The death penalty.

She's sick of the FBI trying to push their identity or agenda, not their identity.

I'm sick of the FBI, and they're pronouns.

Okay, so these phibbies, these hib beats, And he's like, baby, take it easy, this is great. The Feds can take it. But a being bought a boom. But he doesn't get it, and she doesn't want them abusing their power. And she doesn't have illegal standing to stop him, but he does as Card's attorney, since they want to extradite him under the table and that's violation of due process. And they both scurry like little guys excited to fuck things up when have fun with the law.

They both have the same passion, I would say.

And she wants Huang to evaluate him, and he's down, and so let's get Huong time. Why did you attack Stabler? He brings up the sign and bad He's like, yeah, but a lot of people see that sign. And he's like, yeah, but I knew the message was for me. I see a lot of messages. The lighting is so damn dark, and this scene in the jail, it needs to screw on any light bulb. They've got a candle burning in the corner it's wild.

Yeah.

He mentions France and his sister, and that's who's sending him messages because those boys raped her. Obviously, there's dramatic music and he starts expeliating his past. He came home from school one day and he heard them upstairs. They looked crazed. I mean, he looks crazy to explaining it. The boys also looks crazed because they were taking turns on her. He was crying, she was screaming for help, but he did nothing. He froze, he couldn't move. He

And after luring them to the arc, and this time they came.

When they came to rape her, he was ready and I beat them with rocks, he said, and then you know they ran. He's acting like a tough guy and he nods and goes, yeah, and I saved fran scene and I made things right, so we got a lot on her hands. Bead Wong is now pouring coffee, being like, this is not a peedo. This is a schizo. And you know, I don't know if he said that or

This is a very complicated episode.

Casey said, I will take that into consideration, but he pleads, like putting him in prison is as bad as you know, being executed, and you know he is sick. So you know, I disagree with Wong. I disagree it's too many victims. I'm sorry, like the children deserve justice, but what is justice. It's it's very complicated. I need a break to think. No, so okay, and I'm done. Okay, So Casey's only barely listen. Oh Casey, look you know what, Casey, I have a

You've got that before? Have I told him that before?

No?

No, I just said, I bet he's gotten it before. Oh you know, I used to get that.

I feel like that was a very common thing for like my friend's moms to tell me when I was like twelve.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, ew, those moms are creeps. Those moms were like, Hi, Casey.

Yeah, come in for a cookie, Hugh Grant Junior.

I don't know why I'm making I'm acting like I am part of the problem. I'm making fun of Casey right now, being like, it's funny if old moms hit on you. It's not funny if dads do that to little girls. But I'm here being part of the problem that it's funny for a little pervy mom to be.

Hitting on Casey. I stand correct, and I'm calling myself out. I know when I throw that Casey. But I'm also imagining Casey dressed as a little Hugh Grant, you know, like there's a pressure certainly well, and just stumbling through his words.

Yeah.

So, but Casey's only barely listening to Bedie Wong on her flip phone because she's finding out that the Feds actually we're like, fine, take him, I don't give a fuck. So Bdi Wong is like, okay, but even if the federal charges are dropped, Louisiana is still going to try to get him in New York. And she's just like, fuck, Louisiana, I want to dance. So then my favorite transition is like, so she does we all conference, you know what I mean. She's trying to get the media circus going. She's trying

Both lawyers don't know what to do.

Diane Neil is really acting here, and so now the lawyers are fighting. Murdock's like, you can't put him on trial, and Casey goes, I don't have a and just because he SKITZO doesn't mean he can't stand trial. And he's like, Saul is crazy, and she goes, then go file a seven thirty hearing the lawyer can't. Murdoch can't do it because Picard won't let him and he has to abide by his client's wishes. But she doesn't have to, so like,

And then Finn is like, well then we force feed the meds.

I don't give a fuck, like Finn gets very dictatorship like vibes. He's just like, take the pedophiles and force feed them pills and cut off their dicks.

But this is like so many cases they've done on this show, like the woman who has the tumor that's making her of sex with like a twelve year old boy, like the the guy who's got syphilis untreated and it turns him into a murderer. Like all these things are like, well, when they take their meds, they're just normal law biding citizens, and when they don't, they're murderous monsters.

So I don't know what, I don't know.

Yeah, it's it's it is that s Few loves to present you with this conundrum.

Yeah yeah, And and they're never consistent with the results, Like you know, the detective's opinions aren't consistent, the law is not consistent, like they just do whatever.

You know, he was drunk, he can't be charged.

He was drunk charge him, so we know, you know, we never know blah blah blah blah bah. Benson asks if Casey, if she can prove this in court and get him, and she goes, if I put Sabrina on this sweetness stand that's all I need. And she's like, but do we let Louisiana take him or not? And she's like, they all argue about the death penalty and it's all on Casey and she wants Elliott on the stand. She thinks that's gonna help to show what he could

Casey goes no, yes to up here in court.

Benson stands up from her desk and goes, okay, Casey, we can't stress him out, you know, being chill helps recovery. And it gets spicy, and Casey goes, okay, I'll go talk to him myself, and Benson screams leave him alone, Casey, and she goes, I can't and scurries out. Knock, knock, knock. He opens the door. He's bruised up. He's in a gray T shirt. He look even though he's bruised. Casey walks in. She wants to drag him to court. He chuckles. Benson already gave him a heads up that she's coming.

So Picard bring him on. It's personal.

So we're in court, Stabler's giving a blow by blow of the head butt. He does a dramatic taking out of glasses to point to Pocard and then puts the glasses away really fast. I'm like, just keep the glasses on, but maybe it's too much pressure on the eyes. But he does consider him dangerous. So now dramatic music plays

No?

Did he say it was his fault? No?

And he goes, and then Picard goes off and goes, why should I, Why should I trust God? You made me rape those girls. He's yelling up to franccene in the sky stop testing me. Fran scene and screams at the core. He's crying and being dragged out of the courtroom and obviously it's a mistrial. Benson has pissed, and then the sassy judge says, hey, before this freak show comes up again. He warns Novak and goes, you better do a fucking seven thirty hearing and to see if

He falls over, Benson catches him.

She gives a death stare to Novak, and Novak's maybe having a but like can't identify it, but she does feel bad for using her friends to get like a mistrial for a rapist. So then she's in her office hanging up the phone and Benson blazes in you proud of yourself And then she and then Benson opens Casey's desk stower and pulls out a photo and goes, where is he? Huh, where's your schizoex boyfriend? Is he locked

To, Jack McCoy. But don't you think that.

That's also kind of not an Olivia move, that Olivia would go behind her back and have this guy extradited to Louisiana to be executed.

That just doesn't really feel like Olivia. Like Olivia's style.

No, but they love to show how they fuck up to protect each other, you know, like yeah with that, So.

Why does she think She's like I wanted justice for these girls? Like why do you think these girls aren going to get justice in New York at that point, at the point that you phoned the Feds, like you didn't know she wasn't gonna get justice. Nothing had happened yet, you know, It's true, feels like a weird Olivia move, just pointing that out, Yeah, because she never likes the fhibbies. Yeah, And it's like, I don't think of Olivia as I think that's something Stabler would do, you know, be like

I love and he's it made me want to visit the original, Like he's dynamic, he's so good. Yeah, and he is not happy that she changed the case and acted like his defense attorney. She goes, he goes the judge called me and he hands her a paper. She's like, who gave this? And she asks who gave this to him? And he says, who gives a shit? Five years ago, cops responded to a disturbance call in your apartment, and you told them it was a mistake. But that wasn't true,

She goes, I didn't have a choice.

After you told the FEDS, and Benson goes, look, I'm as guilty as you are. I did want revenge for Elliot. He will be back to work next week though, yay, and Picard has been ruled incompetent and so Louisiana can't touch him. Benson asks, do you think he can get better? And she goes, I don't know. I thought Charlie would get better. Then she gets a call from the Morgue six months ago a John Doe clipped by a cab no id but her business card inside and it was Charlie.

Casey meets Picard.

She's in her blue Dunam off hours look and he goes, why are you here? And she says I heard you tried to hurt yourself. He says, I'm not crazy. I'm on my meds. And she's like, well, that's good, and he goes, no, I want to die. You should have left them execute me. I'd rather be dead than live with what I've done. Every day he gets a little better, and and the better he gets, the worse he feels about what he did those to those girls.

Maybe that is justice, she says.

Maybe you will forgive yourself one day when you realize it wasn't your fault. And that is that. Wow, that is that because it's like, if I was a parent of one of those girls, I'd be like, are you out of your fucking minds? Because I was like, yeah, but the monogamy episode, that guy getting fucking for in the mental institution too, Like I don't I don't know, I don't love it.

Yeah, I don't know though.

If he's diagnosed schizophrenice for Annia like that's that's serious.

I don't know, like, ugh, ye, I don't know. A mess, A mess, all right. Well, lead us into the darkness, baby, let's move into the darkness. Head towards the dark.

I guess.

One of the things this episode is based on are like a trend of convicted felons like wanting to be put to death, like being like, go ahead, give me the death penalty. And one of them was a Robert Comer who was convicted for rape and murder in nineteen eighty seven in Arizona. And he does have a wild face with like teardrop tattoos like squirting out of his eye. He was camping with his girlfriend near Apache Lake in Arizona when they invited another camp for Larry Pritchard to

For the pet owners. He killed the dog.

Thank god, Jones escaped when the guy was fixing the truck and she was picked up by another driver and she was able to you know, they were able to get the cops and he was arrested. But starting in two thousand, this all happened in nineteen eighty seven. Starting in two thousand, he was trying to get all his appeals dropped. He's like, execute me. For seven years he tried to get executed and over and over they were just trying to prove his competency to make this decision.

He's dead, and I for an eye.

I mean I ended a whole bunch of innocent people's lives and changed changed their lives forever. Even though they're still alive, their lives are destroyed. I owe that to them. I owe it to myself. Man, I was totally wrong. I don't know what everybody's so scared about. Death is not that damn bad end of quote. The Ninth Circuit Court granted his request in early two thousand and seven. May twenty third of two thousand and seven. He was strapped to a gurney. They covered him with a sheet.

Excuse me, now, I feel.

Guilty for even being like, I don't know, maybe.

He should be in jail because it is it's the scary it's the scariest illness.

It's one of the scariest I know. That's what I mean.

It's like they're not they're not themselves, they're not, but like they're something their body did that their brain didn't That's like what the show all the time is like, it's something your body, a crime your body committed that your brain didn't know about.

Like that.

I mean, in the episode that we do on the road, the guy who has like a sleepwalking thing where he does sleep sex or whatever sexsomnia, and he like rapes his girlfriend's sister and they're like, I can't charge him. Yeah, They're like, we can't charge him. He didn't know what he was doing. It's a medical condition, you know. I mean, they do this all the time in this booking show. But it's to get us to think and talk about it. So it's good.

But Ford, it is because I feel bad now because it is just a bummer. I know.

Well, I think you're exhibiting a lot of what people feel like. It's like, as a victim, yeah, you want justice, but then if you know about mental health, you're like, fuck, it's just it's not a catch twenty two.

I don't know what it is. It's just an unsolvable problem, it feels like.

But maybe just generally the nation paying more attention to public health and they're being like, you know, what's it called universal health care? That could help? That could help a little bit. If a guy like this was being monitored in some way, they might have known his med stopped working after his sister's death. But in the television show, in this case, Albert Bernard Ford, this is Ford versus Wainwright and it's a landmark Supreme case that upheld the

So.

Alvin Bernard Ford was convicted of murdering a cop in nineteen seventy four in a botched robbery, and he was sentenced to death in Florida.

Obviously they love killing people.

By nineteen eighty two, he'd been on eight on death row for eight years. His mental health had severely declined. He was calling himself the Pope. He was telling people he stopped the KKK from burying dead prisoners in the walls. He said that the prison guards were torturing their female relatives at the prison.

I mean that one. I kind of am like, did you guys look into it?

And he said he was appointing judges to the Florida Supreme Court. So the guy's not making sense. So three psychiatrists examined this guy and said that while he does have various mental disorders, he was capable of understanding what the death penalty means and what it would do to him, and then the governor of Florida, Bob Graham, just like signed a death warrant for him in nineteen eighty four.

A guy named Charles Ray Hatcher. He is a serial.

Killer and rapist and he's I wrote the final sweetheart I got to research today was Charles Ray Hatcher, So Charles Ray Hatcher was the son of a criminal and an abusive alcoholic. He was a bullied boy who turned into a bullyef so he led a life of crime

He's doing it all. In nineteen fifty nine.

Hatcher is getting out of his sixth prison sentence and he's thirty years old. He attempts to abduct a sixteen year old newspaper delivery boy using a Butcher knife, and then he goes to jail for lucky number seven. He does not succeed in this attempt. He actually tries to escape during his transport during this seventh prison sent but they got him and they got him into the Missouri

So then nothing from this dude for like six years. Okay.

Then in August of nineteen sixty nine, this guy's forty Hatcher abducts a boy in Antioch, California. He lured the boy into his car, took him down to a creek, and strangled him. Okay, So just two days later, a six year old boy named Gilbert Martinez is reported missing in San Francisco, having last been seen with a man who offered him ice cream and a man walking his dog. Later that day finds the boy being beaten and sexually

That he's trying to escape the hospital.

So he gets sent to a medium security prison in Vacaville, and then in May of seventy three, as psychologists says that he is quote a manipulative, institutionalized sociopath. In nineteen seventy three, he attempts suicide after being sentenced to a maximum security prison, so people think he's trying to stay away from maximum security. A psychiatrist diagnoses him with paranoids, gets a and he stays at Vaccaville in the in the medium security prison. Two years later, guards report good

I do not know what's going on.

I know it's the seventies, but everyone's just kind of like slapping the sky on the wrist and moving in on. And I do think he might have mental health problems, but I think that means we need to there needs to be a more permanent solution of keeping this man off the streets in a hospital. Five months later, in nineteen seventy nine, in May of seventy nine, he's arrested for assault and attempted murder of a seven year old

Twenty one days.

I don't know what's happening here, Like at this point, it's this is comedy. This is like to me, maybe these facilities are just like, we can't handle this guy. Let him out three months. I think they're all letting him out hoping he'll offend again and get sent to jail eventually. The three months later, January of eighty one, he as Richard Clark is arrested after a knife fight

And they did.

And after that he just kept adding details to his confessions that were fed to him by the police, either consciously or not, and a prosecutor got on board with charging him. A jury convicted him of second degree murder and he was sentenced to life.

Four years later.

Charles Ray Hatcher, our Guy, confesses to three murders, including the murder of Eric Christian and Reynolds was released, thank god, but no thanks to this shitty work from the cops that just put this like low iq man into prison and convinced him that he did this crime. So he spent four years in jail. Good work, guys. So and it's like, yes, he's been exonerated. Who knows if society's going to treat him that way. So back to old Charlie Ray Hatcher. Last we heard from him, it's April

The first victim was twelve.

Year old William Freeman, who was the boy who had disappeared in Antioch, California, just a day or two before he was caught with Gilbert Martinez in San Francisco. Hatcher gave cops a map that led to the remains of twenty eight year old James Churchill. So he's killing kids, he's killing adults. I mean, he's all over the map this guy. And he had buried this guy near Rock Island Army Arsenal near Davenport, Iowa. He also confessed to

I either way, the authorities should have kept him locked up in a hospital or prison.

It doesn't matter which one. I don't care.

Look at this fucking story after jail sentence number seven.

Yeah, yeah, Like I'm not into the three strike policy, you know, I'm not, But like ten strikes with multiple rapes of children, I think those are those strips. You're out, You're out of society. Fuck authorities putting the wrong man in prison. This guy just kept committing I mean.

So many lives I know, And it really just does feel like whenever you research crimes from the sixties and seventies, like everyone was asleep at the wheel. I mean, I get they didn't have the same technology. They didn't have DNA, they didn't have cameras, they didn't have a lot of stuff, but it's like fuck, like I don't know poor Melvin. I'm glad he got out at least after four years and it wasn't like like life.

But yeah, anyway, that's that.

On that and now we've got a very cool guest, so don't go anywhere. Our guest today is one of those guys that you just know you've seen him in something. He's a prolific character actor. He was Ellen DeGeneres's roommate on her sitcom Ellen. His character was named Adam Green, but he's also been on Castle six Feet Under buttercall Saul. He's in everything, but you know him today as a Southern man suffering from schizophrenia who headbutted Stabler into blindness.

So we're so excited to talk to you. Thank you very much, a very amazing performance.

Yes, you had done criminal intent before you did SVU. I saw so you kind of knew the Dick Wolf universe a little bit.

Well, I mean I knew the Dick Wolf universe as a fan before long before that.

Yeah, and I did do criminal Intent and that was very fun. I think that was in two thousand and five.

Yeah, damn, yeah, it was like a couple of years before this one. So then they just bring you in and say, we want you to play this sort of on the edge, I mean, someone suffering from schizophrenia guy character? Or do you are you auditioning? Like how does this come all come about? They see you play another person with similar characters.

I actually don't remember, but I I probably auditioned for it, though I had I had occasionally had offers.

In fact, I think it might have actually been an offer.

I feel like you're a go to guy, you know, looking at your career, you're you're on every show that's happened in the past twenty years.

Well, I'm assuming they're calling you.

There was there was a certain period where if you saw my face early in an episode of a show, a child was in danger, oh no, and you know it was a little bit of an ego blow, but also you know, it helps to make insurance by the end of the year, and if it's a great show, great actors in it.

Yeah, you're a pedophile again.

Man, I remember definitely being I mean, in addition to a chance to work with Mauria and Chris and.

B d One.

Yeah, well, when I'm a Blanket, we actually just did a play together a few years ago.

Oh and Diane and.

Iced Tea and he and I had done a short movie together like a million years ago. Oh, so I had some connection to a bunch of people on the show. But it was I was delighted to be part of that universe.

What was the short about? What was the short with Iced Tea? I'm so curious.

The short was called get Text, and it was kind of like a sizzle reel for a movie that never got made about two brothers who had a tuxedo business they had inherited from their father.

And I was I think it was Eddie Tuxedo or sometimes.

Yeah, this is from nineteen eighty seven and the thumbnail is like a very young Iced Tea on IMDb.

Yeah, that's right.

Wow.

Anita Rosenberg wrote and directed it, and Kurt Fuller was in it, and James row was in a tearing Ley Hopkins, who is a you know.

Very successful writer director. It was it was also, it was, it was. It was a lot of.

Fun and it was just sort of a lark for a friend. But you know, all these people went on to have my great careers.

Any like tidbits that our audience would like about those people or your day on set and filming, and I want to know personally about you having to run with your hands behind your back and if that was hard.

But that's in the that's in the sequence after he pulls me out of the truck in the park.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I'm and I'm I'm sort of just this sort of stream of consciousness.

Stuff that I'm saying, yeah, and then you see the billboard and that's when it.

Yeah, yeah, that the billboard, as I recall where I'm saying, it says like escape and I think, yeah, it's gonna

Saying because it doesn't have to be.

There's no obligation too to connect to any sort of like psychological reality, Right, you get to create your own because it's it's you know, in this guy's case, I'm not a medical person or anything, but the clearly something is so wrong, whether it's chemical or in the guy's brain.

So what kind of prep do you do to get ready to play a part like this?

Is it different pushups?

What? What kind of prep?

So with that part, I listened to a lot of accent coaching tapes to try and approximate a New Orleans accent, which is it was not familiar to me at all, and that and that's a fun thing to do.

That's you know, part of the if you're if you're a baker.

That's when you get to like put the roses on the cake and stuff like that. But also, you know, I didn't go out and write children's books or anything like that.

But you know, learning learning lines, I will have to say that was a that was a big hard of it is.

And it sounds kind of like, well, of course you have to learn your lines, but learning them so well that I could think anything and just have the words come out because I didn't know where we were going to shoot and what was going to be happening to me, Like, I didn't know until we were walking down that path and I was handcuffed behind my back and Chris Maloney was making me laugh.

That love to hear that what the circumstances were going to be.

So I just how many takes was the headbud?

Oh? Not a lot? Like you know, quick quick.

You just like lunged for it towards him and he just threw himself back into the car. Like pretty much did they have a stunt person or you were doing it?

Probably be stunt person involved. I was trying to stay very focused on what I had to say. I don't remember all of that stuff. I'm certain there were stunt people.

Are you saying that, like even when you're kind of rambling when he's pulling you out of the woods and you're just is all that scripted?

Or are you just kind of taking story.

That No, that is one hundred on the page? Oh wow, you know when I got the script?

Wow?

Yeah, because some of it's like just under your breath, like I wouldn't have even probably heard it. This last time I watched it, I had it with the captions on, so I could tell what you were saying.

But yeah, it's like, yeah, that's so, that's wow.

I would have thought they would have let you improv a little bit there, but I guess everything by the book.

One of the Okay, So in that particular moment, one of my favorite things was we did I think we did a couple of takes that it was kind of a tight master with me and my guy and Stabler. And once we got that and you know, all the words came out, I got a lot of like acknowledgment, a lot of warm feelings from production. Oh nice, as we're doing that, like, oh that was great, Oh we.

Got it all. Oh that's trumant. It was great. It was great.

And after about the fourth person said something like that, Chris just went, okay, look.

It was okay. He didn't want you to get too big for your brushes.

It was fine.

And Marishka, I had been on a sitcom a couple of years earlier. I was Ellen's roommate on her first sitcom and in one of our very first episodes, and it was before SVVU, Marishka was my date in the episode.

She was the guest star oh wow, I believe her name was Dara. Oh my wow, Yes, I believe. I have a photo from that episode I can share with you too.

Our listeners are very obsessed with everything she's done prior to SVU, because she's just been on the same show for twenty five years.

That if they you're in er, they take a photo and like send it to us.

Everybody's like very obsessed with like those. But I don't think anyone's ever sent us the ellen. So we got we got to see that.

That's so funny.

And so when you showed up on the set to be you know, Saul Picard, this schizophrenic pedophile, did you she was? She like, oh, it's my old boyfriend Ari how I mean, because everything we hear she remembers everybody and.

Like so absolutely, And that was another thing about that shows that everyone It just makes.

You feel immediately welcome and comfortable.

It was great, Yeah, because you had big scenes.

You had the head butt with Maloney, you had big scenes with Diane Neil too.

And the confession with b. D.

Wong.

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Yeah, that was all it was all it was. It was very involving stuff. It was a great part.

Yeah, it was a great, big one.

They gave you a lot of big, juicy monologues and things to do.

It felt like the challenge was to to not excuse or whitewash the guy, but to sort of live in that area of like, at what point it's some like just horrific behavior, like beyond someone's control. And in this case, it sort of felt like it landed on beyond his control because because he thought he was doing something else.

Well, with all your experience on sets, I am curious, is that what is it like have you ever gone to as summit like well, this is going to be a mess, and what are those things that indicate that to you or the opposite? You know, we're like, oh, this is going to be a great day.

You know, it really is kind of impossible to know what's going to be a great day, what's going to be a bad day. You sort of you know, it's whether or not does something get in the groove at a certain point. Usually for me, an indication that things might not be great is walking onto you know, and it doesn't.

It really doesn't happen that much. I've mostly have had great experiences.

But every now and then you walk onto a set that you know it's either a film that's been shooting for a couple of weeks or a series that's been going on, and ten minutes into your day there's somebody yelling at somebody else and it just feels like, oh, well, this is you know, everybody needs to go to therapy and come back tomorrow. Ors just just a TV show.

Yell I get someone at work is wild.

It is wild, and I've seen it a few times, and I will omit the names to protect the guilty.

I guess you have done so many things.

What do people recognize you for the most when somebody randomly comes up to you? What are they like or do you get a lot of mine? What do I know you from? Kind of people?

Which Pedophile were?

That's right? Well, I have to say that.

I became aware that Blinded had aired because my daughter was around two at the time, and I would suddenly when I would take her to the local park playground on the swings is when I would start getting very uncomfortable glances from other parents and really not understand what the issue was and forget about going into the library.

Oh my god, you were also in Six Feet Under. Forgot you were in a few.

Of those that that's correct.

I was.

I was a couples therapist i show. Yeah, and.

I think I've sort of aged out of people recognizing me from Allen, but that was a big deal for a long time.

Yeah, And anything fun coming up, anything you'd like us to look out for.

I'm I'm currently looking for self storage space, so I'm about to move every everything I've still got left at the old house. But other than that, sort of seeing what the new season will bring, it's a very strange time. As you know, in the business, there's this kind of realignment of everything, so you know, we'll see, Well.

They could definitely get you back on s few. I think it's been long enough since the head butt that people will have forgotten a little bit.

We can get you back, and.

There'd be a good lawyer, you know, like a lawyer, a dirt like a dirty governor.

I don't know judge, okay, because I don't know this at all, But are there actors who repeat characters?

Some of the main detectives who have been on for seasons were either perpetrators or victims in the past.

And wasn't Diane Neial initially a guest star and then came on.

Yes, right, she was a purp, she was a chill came out.

Yeah, but it's not the same character. No, no, no, they're not.

Like she's not like I reformed and went and went to law.

School and went to law school in prison.

Yeah.

Yeah, she's a totally different person. Which they've done it. I have Muggsy what's his name? That's his Twitter? What's the or is it? It's like five or six? Yeah, there's a bunch more regular detective. But yeah, they bring people.

Well, they they at the beginning.

I think they used to reuse people a lot more frequently, like the first few seasons, and now I think they try to spread them out more. But you see people all the time that we're like on a season that have been back in the more recent seasons. So just putting that out there that are gross is ready for his return to SVU.

That's right, Hell yeah.

Fun guy, nice guy. But he's like such a what a talented guy, and he's like just out there working,

It's hard to think about. Yeah, yeah, what because Evail.

Isn't real and then you're committing awful crimes and you don't even remember, and then now you're quote unquote better and medicated, and now you have to live with these things and it wasn't you, but it is you.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it's it's really complicated, and I think that's why most people would rather just put people to death than think about anything.

Yeah, but is that wild to say?

No, No, I think people are people look at the crimes and they see things sort of black and white. I mean, obviously the crimes in this episode and in the in the real life crimes were horrific, but.

Well, and the guy in Missouri like that was just like fucking sad, like all that evidence that he didn't do it, and the governor instead of just been like, well, wait, like, what kind of a bloodlust is this?

Like I don't under.

Don't understand why they couldn't have if they feel a little bit of a chance he didn't do it, why wouldn't that be enough to be like, oh, yeah, let's wait, Like I don't understand.

Wait six months in six months if it's.

Not, I don't Yeah, I don't understand the blood lust for that kind of thing. And it was, but it's like, yeah, I am just I'm just against the death penalties.

So and I do think that the wishes of the family.

I think a lot of times the family Sometimes I have read things where it's like, oh, the family wants that person dead so they can like sleep at night knowing that he's not like breathing anymore. Okay, I guess I can see people wanting that, but.

But that case, usually the families don't want it, Like I get that too, but it's realy the case often enough.

I feel like most of the time they're just like, yeah, they want them out of society and you know, getting you know, hopefully we should be looking at prison also as rehabilitative, right, Like aren't we supposed to be looking at it that way.

Not if you're going in for life. I don't care, stay bad. I don't know.

People can go in for life and they can get degrees and change who they are. I don't know, look at some of these people have done stuff like that.

I don't know.

Though.

Then I was just watching some of the episodes where of serial killers that we know where they're working in the law library on SVU, and I was like, these guys, these guys are never going to stop, you know who we're talking about.

The library is like that's the place for the gentle soul of the prison always Yeah, yeah, No, I guess you can become Yeah, I guess it's good if you become better in person.

I don't know.

I don't think that they're yeah, you're not going to let somebody like out, But I don't know. I also think it's I also think personally, if it was me and somebody like knock on Wood, like murdered one of my loved ones or something, I would want them in prison thinking about their crime rather than just what if we just stop out?

I don't know.

Don't you think it's punishment for a psycho to be locked with no control in jail like we're so yeah, but I don't think they're thinking about the crime. Yeah, you don't think they're like repentant.

And if that's the thing, it's like they don't want to be in jail.

But if you feel nothing, then like jail or not jail, it doesn't matter you right, if you.

Feel like well, they've also it's also been proven that the death penalty is not a deterrent, like it doesn't deter people from crimes. So hi, yeah, ye, it's a tough. It's tough, But let's let's move on to this week's So what would Sister Peg do? This is our weekly segment, you guys know, where we just try to give you more info on what we talked about in today's episode, because, believe it or not, we do not have a PhD

You know, because I believe Yeah, remember I was really mad that that dude who had that nervous breakdown, like stabbed the pregnant life and slit the mom's throat.

Yeah, gouged out his.

Daughter's eye and then he was sent to a hospital and then really I was pissed.

Yeah, because he was eventually released for world Yeah yeah, yeah. But this week I wanted to direct you guys to an initiative by the American Bar Association called the Severe Mental Illness Initiative. Their mission is to serve as a national resource for lawyers, organizations, and policymakers interested in learning more about the issues surrounding serious mental illness and capital punishment.

Come on, get out there, get out there and vote, and next week we'll be doing ritual.

Uh oh.

Diane Neil's most Haunted episode from season five, episode fourteen, get ready for Yeah, get ready? God?

All right, come see us on tour. We love you guys, See you next week.

Nie.

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