Betrayal's Climax w/ Fiona Robert

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.

I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger and we're coming at you fast, JK stuttering, We're coming at you stuttering s crimes celeb guests. We always have a great time here with the background of murder and sexual crimes, and life's been so hectic and wild.

We're in the.

Time machine, I'm, you know, traveling around. But obviously we're very happy for mom Donnie's win. And also I I do feel really naive. I didn't expect the racism to get so crazy, but like, of course no, I.

I for sure.

But so the next day I got on my phone, I was like, oh my god, I don't it was. It's really fucked up. And at the end of the day, he won, So get behind him. What the fuck?

Get behind him?

All these money democrats going against him, the president talking about deporting him at like and taking away his citizenship, and everyone thought I was crazy when I started being like, well my passports is born in Ukraine, I'm traveling, I'm nervous, and everyone's like, shut up, that's not real.

You're a citizen. And it's like literally to arrest him. He didn't even just stay deported. He's like arrest him. Yeah, like he's he's a he didn't show up to the field. I mean, he is scum. There's no depths to the scumminess. So I'm never shocked by his behavior. But like the Party of the People, Deborah Messing, are you unhinged, bitch? Oh well, a lot of a lot of Jews are having a problem with him. Yeah, because the race, you know what I mean.

Like, at the end of the day, all the stuff that they're saying he said, he has not said.

He does not say those things.

A Jewish friend of mine was like, well he did this in this and also his mom tried to get Galgadot banned from the OSCARS, and I went, I wrote back and go, I don't think we should judge anybody based.

On their mom. I mean, my parents vote for Trump, you know, like I can't.

I don't think we could judge people based on what their parents, Do you know what I mean? But also yeah, it's I've heard him say plenty of things that make me feel like he's a great, a great canidate, but he does not.

H I I am a Jew in New York. What are we talking?

Like?

I would rather get a free bus.

And I also like what he said on one of the late night shows where it's like, I guess Mayor Koch said this back in the day, but of like, if you agree with me on nine.

Out of twelve issues, you should vote for me.

If you believe if you agree with me on twelve out of twelve, you should get a psychiological exam. Like you don't have to agree with everything someone does. But today it's the problem the sex pest fucking freaks. Eric Adams is a criminal. He's bought up for by the fascist government. Like what the fuck are you talking about? I know?

And that's I think this is where like we as liberals, as democrats are going to have problems because people want perfect candidates. They want someone they agree with, they want someone they agree with ninety perfect.

They're fine with him, Oh I know, but I.

Mean and like it's like exactly what you're saying, though, if you agree with me on nine out of twelve issues, that then you should we should be able to work together and move forward and see you hed to head.

Day to day.

When you talk to someone it's like, well, but they said that one thing. Oh, but they did a thing when they were in college. It's like, I don't care, Like we gotta like start seeing coming to some common groundy or we're never gonna surely when you're okay with sexual abusing. But Cuomo should have been a non starter. I was talking to a friend who's not into mom Donnie because she thinks that socialists.

Just make a lot of noise. That's her only reason.

And I was like, Okay, She's like she doesn't think that they get anything done. That he's young and he's not gonna do anything. Okay, I go, what's your option? You're gonnavote for Curtis Sleewa. Come on, Like someone was telling me that Cuamo was gonna try to get it back on the ballot. Yes, the name of rich men can ever just quit. They wait for their second chance. But I want to fourth, fifth, seventh chance.

To American Jews, I mean, did I write a bunch of comments and delete them? Off Deborah Messing his page.

I have.

The people that tried to burn down Jake Shapiro's house, white supremacist. The people that are shooting the Tree of Life Synagogue terrorist attack, shooting that was a white supremacist. The people that are the biggest danger, the fucking dude that shot up Jews when I was a kid, that was a white supremacist. If we are talking about safety of Jewish people, the biggest threat is white supremacy. It is never what these brown people that you're fucking scared of. Ever,

Yeah, and also anyone that's not.

Living here we're voting, Like I hate when they're like the cesspol these blues, then get the fuck out. Why are you mind your business? We don't want you here, we don't want I don't know, it's just like crazy, it's really upsetting.

I don't know. But I was also I'm at a Bernie girl.

You know, I was like Hillary all the way, but I now like understand what they felt, because it's like, when the majority of people are excited about a candidate, how dare the party go against that?

And that's you know, that's what someone said that I liked.

I wish I'm that Democrats fought against fascists and Republicans as hard as they do against progressive Democrats.

Yeah, oh my god. And honestly, I grew up listening to.

Letting the Big Bill gone like.

Fuck all of you, fuck you I listened to. I grew up listening to Curtis Leewall on the radio.

I don't even know what is you mentioned is? I have no idea. He's the Republican mayoral oh got it, nominee.

And he was on AM radio that I listened to with my Republican dad my whole fucking life.

And I cannot believe that he's running for mayor of New York.

So the comptroller, who is Jewish, gets fucking knocked down by ice, brought to his knees, carried out, who stood up for him?

Who stood up for him? Who did he endorse?

You know, that's Jewish mayoral Canada endorse Mom Donnie and listening to Hey Benson, why don't you talk to your friend? Why don't you get your friends sorted?

This is this is us telling you that we are going to do those episodes, but we're not going to have We're not going to have Debra Messing on the pod. She's not going to be on it. Yeah, sorry, I to raise my voice. I'm sorry, it's okay. I just found out yesterday. I don't know if I told you this, but like, I was on this committee at my daughter's school last year. It's called a school site council. It's how you decide where the Title I funds go in

Sorry, we're in the time of shee and I apologize if this is a disillusionment to you in our lives. But it is July second, Okay, the timing is important. Yeah, I'm supposed to fly to Australia July fifth.

I wake up this morning.

I have a little le s vie still to do before we meet up, but I'm going to soul Cycle. On my way to soul Cycle, get a call from my manager the Australian government.

The visa that I've submitted is not enough.

I need to go to a local police precinct, give my fingerprints and get a document. It's called like to make sure I have a clean record, like to prove I'm not a criminal. You give them your information and they do a background check and they give you like a non criminal letter of consent that you're not a I don't know, I keep repeating, I don't know what this bureaucracy bullshit is. I have to get this form. I'm my way to soul Cycle. I'm like, well, we're

You know, we watch SPU word Yes to you, pot You're like to the here to Detective Benson like yeah, acab.

But there's something like, I don't know.

I feel like I'm in busy town heading to the precincts. So I'm in the precincts. Very helpful police officer. He goes, Okay, give me a sec He goes, you actually have to go to one PP Plaza. Here's the phone number. We don't do it here after COVID, we don't do it. I'm sorry, and I go, wait, should I go or call? He goes, call, So I call. No one answers. It's an automated message. But in the message it says, do not come here without an appointment. You need an appointment.

Of course not. The next available is July eighth.

I always told July second that I need a visa, that I need to do this thing. And I'm leaving in three days. It's fucking holiday. The precinct it says, do not come. So now I'm dealing with like immigration lawyers and trying to have waivers in my former visa because I've been to Australia a few times and I'm trying to prove all this stuff to them. And basically it is because of our current president and he's fucking over Australians and making it harder to come here.

So it's kind of just like a punishment. Oh no, yeah.

But I'm flying first to New Zealand, so I could go and we'll figure it'll figure itself.

Out, I hope.

But like, and then you can be able to call your congress person's office. They I can help you get like passports if you like you know how people will be like, oh fuck, my passport's expiring in two days and I'm leaving for a foreign country. You can like call your congressperson's office and they can help you. But I'm sure you're working out immigration, playing it out.

But they did say if you know, if you have a connection in New York City government or stay government.

Oh my god, anybody anybody work in the Congressman's office.

I hope you go be back.

Hopefully I'm home already and no one's looked through my phone or taken my passport and cut it in half.

I mean.

And then the police officer said, shame on whoever waited till the last minute. He goes, you'd tell them, shame on them, And he goes, this is at least a few weeks to make to do this, and the other police officer goes, yeah, it's like the DMV. You can't just go on in and get fit, you know, right.

I just went to the DMV last week, five days ago, really, and I was in and out in sixteen minutes because I had an appointment.

You can't just walk in there, nightmare.

No, No, oh my god, I hope this gets figured out.

Oh that's so stressful. Yeah.

And I was fully sweaty and like wet from class to just begging for them to say I'm not a criminal. I would say mine is more selfish and self centered. I think, holding six billion dollars from educating, but none of this is. It's like it's like easy to be rage. Not easy. I just how I feel. It's like I'm in a rage. I'm so pish, but none of this is surprising. I guess the race stuff for some reason surprised me like nine to eleven, and now this it's like,

I can't even believe it.

I'll tell you a funny thing I'm mad about, Okay, and it's a little vulnerable. I did order a pack of twenty four water bottles off Amazon, so I like having fucking cold waters in my fridge. Jesus Christ. Okay, So the box has just been like in my living room for a while, and then I use the box cutter to open it and I cut a row of water bottles fully.

Open, and.

No, yeah, oh my god, that's sharp ass box cutter.

Damn. Yeah. Yeah, it's working. It's it's working.

But it's also like I could tell it's like a third party seller, Like I think it's like a family that's trying to make extra money buy stuff and then resells it on Amazon. It was like the jankiest weird bo like it shouldn't be a box. Like usually when you order a case of water just the case, just a yeah, like for it to even be in a box, I'm like, what janky apple like garage operation, operation app whatever? You know. You got me so fucking riled up, and now we're gonna watch crazy sview.

But I did it. I did. It's mad. But I also I am like I can't believe.

I'm just like like living life like and that like I'm going to a pool tomorrow.

It's just like weird. It's strange.

Yeah, it's strange because the worst things ever are happening. And I believe in revolution. I should be a part of a revolution, and here I am playing Tetris on my laptop.

I just I don't know, Yeah, I don't know.

Uh.

I also feel a little bit like powerless and like what.

Can we do because like we everyone's like call your congress people. It's like our congress people are doing what we want.

The mid note, but they're doing the minimum. They're like vote and then go threaten your Democratic friends that vote the other way and help these Republicans past shit on the cuss people get some plans going. Are there secret meetings? Where's the coup? Where are where's the military? Where are the better different meetings. Yeah, where are the secret meetings?

I mean, I think that they.

Are going to be fucking the Democratic people the midterms. We're not making it to midterms. If I've been right about everything, you know, we're not making it some midterms.

I don't know what to do. If we're not making a year.

We need to go to the kill bill guy and learn how to, you know, use our hands to fight out of a casket. I don't know, because that's the scary thing. Like I heard, like in Turkey, it's the suppressive government. But people, people are on the streets, you know, like people are protesting and it's just it doesn't matter. Yeah, and they're gonna keep arresting. They're gonna make it harder and harder to protest. We're listen, my parents have lived

You know.

I could eat fucking pickled herring and buckwheat for the rest of my life.

I don't think that's happening. I do not think that's happening. No, No, because I won't be able to make the buckwheat. I don't think that there's going to be outlets for you to get your frustrations out in Russia. I don't think you're able to do stand up. I don't think you'll be able to do soul. I don't think you'll be.

Able to No, I'm not going to Russia. I mean America will be Russia. Yeah, and we're well have a career. I thought you were like, we could get out of here, we could leave, we.

Could go to Russia. We left on religious we of course, I know, I know you're not going anywhere.

I'm just saying I thought you were like making a comment about how bad it is here that you would go back.

But yes, of course not. Of course you're not going anywhere.

You're not going anywhere, and I don't think we're going to become Russia. But I'm also upset. I'm also upset about what's happening.

It's it's fucked. I don't know what you do.

So now you have to get basically today waivers and.

You have to get this shit together. Yeah.

Well, I found all my old paperwork and sent it to my people and they made a waiver and like, we'll see what happened.

I'm so glad you have it all. That's great. Oh yeah, Yeah, that's just searching through gmails, like I.

Know, but I know people that go through and delete gmails from like years ago.

You know, I keep everything in Gmail, especially professionally. I mean. Okay, yeah, the water, that's the funnest thing we have to say.

Yeah, the funnest thing is Lisa slashed open a bunch of water bottles.

Listen, but I've been squeezing them open into a cup, like from the bottom.

Like you're saving the water, You're saving the amusing the water.

Yes, okay, thank god. All right, let's get started with today's episode. It's wild. It's uh, you know, we here we are. We're just doing another episode that they're trying something new in this one.

We've got.

We've got a live show coming up in New York City on August fourteenth, so come see us. It's at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn. Go to That's Messed Up Live dot com and you can get tickets to that. You can also see Lisa's tour dates there as well. You can see our merch. You can, I don't know, you can do whatever the hell you want. We got a lot of stuff up on that website. But let's start today's episode.

Okay, we'll be doing betrayals. Climax I would put it. We've been doing a lot of goofy ones. I would say, not goofy. This is tragic and a crime is committed, but a lot of far no. I don't even know if it's far fudged.

I don't know.

I'm using bad words. This is a wild episode. That's what I'm gonna stick with. We have season fifteen. It's episode thirteen. Hulusa's twelve Go fuck yourself. So we're in a grand hall and you know, it's hands up time.

There's an oath.

Benson's in her full outfit with the hat, and I really hate seeing her in a cops hat. It like takes away everything that I believe in her. But it's a sergeant. So they're all wearing little white gloves like they're about to drop some silver. We're on a table and everyone's applauding eight congrats sergeants. It seems like way too many sergeants. There's like hundreds of these little cops, and so Rollin's fin and Tomorrow are viewing and they're

Really it's psychologic from the back clap and then go.

But Nick is sitting there smiling, clapping and he's just like so fucking hot, it's insane. So now you know we're on the scene of the crime. Our detectives get filled in by a uniformed cop. Avery Capshaw sixteen, her parents went to a wedding, left her home alone. They came back this morning, the place was trashed and robbed and the girl is gone.

They spoke to her last.

Night at eight pm and the UNI CoP's like, yeah, the parents think she's been taken, and Finn goes and you and he's like, I don't know. This place smells like weed and there's no forced entry, and the neighbors said there was loud music till midnight. So the parents are telling Finn and Rollins that their daughter would never throw a party. That's not her vibe. They know something's wrong. But you threw parties as a teen. Would your parents also say y're someone that wouldn't throw a party.

Probably yeah, they'd probably be like Caro would have like three or four friends over. But like, the parties that I threw in high school were wild, and I bet they would never have any idea about how wild they were.

No, that's the thing parents, It's like, didn't you lie to your parents? I don't understand why parents are so delulu.

That's the thing.

My friend Valentine and I talk about this all the time, like we're the first person to be like, no, it's probably our kid, like these are. There's so many precious parents that are just like, could never. My kid could never. There's just absolutely no way. It's like, never say fucking never, your kid could do anything, you know, Yeah, yeah, the.

Brant are not formed, so whatever. But they just know something is wrong, but there's been no ransom call. But all the jewelry is gone, all the cash is gone, and they're just like, Avery's never been in trouble, she's not that wild, like please, and there's blood in our main bedroom, so the mom thinks she was assaulted. They

They broke up two months.

Ago because her grades were slipping, and so Finn's like, so, you know, were they out last night? Like what's going on? They're like no, he's a nice boy. And the dad is like, listen, I don't want to sound wrong, but he's poor.

Okay.

He lives house for some avenue projects and we don't like it. And they called the school and he didn't go to school that day either, so they both didn't make it to school. The wife leaves to go get Manny's contact information off of Avery's computer, and during this moment, the dad levels with the detectives, goes, listen, my wife's more trusting this Latino boy.

Is no good. I've always had a bad feeling about this boy.

The dad walks out, and Finn and Rollins are like, okay, Romeo and Juliet, and we know how well that turned out. And then they zoom in on the bit of blood on the bed and it is like the tiniest little bit of blood.

It's really usually they try to gross us with the.

Stuff, but it's really like a half period stain.

Honestly, It's it's like nothing. It's really nothing. It's just a weird choice for them.

I'm not saying like, obviously, if there's blood on a bed and your daughters missing, that's like a big deal. But it's like what happened to the props department that day? Yeah, so a little splattering, a little more something. Yeah, it just was really tiny. But we go into the credits and now we're back in the office and Olivia's still in her cop top but the hat is off, thank god cop top.

Sorry, I don't know why the way you said that made me laugh. Merch okay, No, we can't have anything, say cop Okay.

So they're debating like is it a bad teen fun time or a crime?

So what do they need to do.

They're gonna check all the pawn shops to out for the jewelry. And then Danny Pino is here to take over for Maloney and like knowing about schools, and he's like poor or rich. This is a top like the top public school in the city. You both have to be genius as fuck to go there, Like no money can buy you, Like you have to be smart. And Manny doesn't even have a record. But his brother was murdered two years ago by b X nine and that's a gang and it was a drive by and no

You, I used to think that was gonna happen. I was like an idiot.

I was like like, well, if it's not, it's not Maloney anymore, I guess it's this new guy.

Like I just didn't even then.

I think I was shocked when there's like that one episode where he comes out of the shower at Rollins and I was like, he's.

Supposed to be hooking up with Benson, Like I don't know why.

I was like so, well, because of a moment's like this, yeah, it was like sexual so whatever.

Amara was going to the grandma's.

Finn and Rollins go through avery social media and they're gonna check out her friends at school. So then they all kind of make fun of her and they salute her and they're like, okay, we're on it, boss, and she's annoyed, but yeah, she has a sense of humor.

So they're at the school talking to her friends.

They're talking to a dork with glasses in the library and she's spilling the bee and she's like, yeah, her parents made them break up, but they were in love. They couldn't be a part, so she did have to lie to them. But she also liked the sneaking around. It was like hot for her. And then they ask where does she sneak off to and so then then we cut to Rollins and she's talking to a boy and it's you know, he's an artsy boy. There's a denim jacket and the easels funky art. This is an

He has a job before school.

And he's going to save up enough money to pay for a gravestone for his brother. So this is like sad, Like a teen has to work a job before school so his brother can like have a fucking gravestone. Devastating, but yeah, things are off. She didn't see him last night or this morning. And the backpacks in his room, so this isn't good. And in the backpack he finds some gang items. There's like a hat and beads in the colors of the gang. And the grandma's crying and saying, no, no, no,

Rolin's going no, no, no, he's alive.

And she doesn't believe Rollin's and and it's like, no, no, no, we have him in custody. We can call him, you can talk to him. He's alive. She does not believe Rollins, and she keeps accusing her of lying, and then she jumps. But she must have seen the blow up thing beneath her right like did she just want a fun ride?

Yeah, that's what I was wondering too.

I was like, like, it's you're not going to end your life, and so were you like this could be fun?

I don't know.

I don't get it, cause yeah, so you guys are just like a giant Discovery Zone blow up savor thing at the bottom.

She was going dzy at Discoveries.

And she just jumped and it was like it was cool like that you would pay money at an amusement.

Port to do.

Yeah, I would love to do that because if you jump to your death, I get it. But what are you're jumping?

Just?

I mean I would do I would want the thrill. I would want a thrill to know I was safe. But she jumps, but a thing catches her and it's big and bouncy. So and she's in baby blue sweatpants. And if you see a rich girl in baby blue sweatpants, you know she's having a tough day, like she's going through the dark side. She yeah, it's not it's not a good sign. It's not a you're not wearing baby blue if things are going good. So now we're in the hospital. Rollin's and Benson come to see Avery in

It's always like we were just studying.

Yeah, it needs to be an in between from like gang activity and studying.

I don't understand one is studying.

We were drinking vodka and fucking, or we were studying, and there's nothing in between.

I was friends with this little girl when I was a kid, and her mom was very, very strict, and it was a very studious family, but I was We were always desperate to hang out. So sometimes I would go to her house and we would both have to read silently from our own books. But I would just come over to read together for a half hour.

And then leave.

I mean, my best friend and I used to watch TV on the phone together, just like watching TV and like barely talking because I would get in trouble if I got busted watching TV.

Oh yeah, the weekday, the weekday clank.

Yes. Yeah, So Benson.

Says, well, the apartment looked like there was a party in sex and she's like, wow, we've had sex before, please don't tell my parents, but not last night. They were like, did Manny invite people over? She says no. The doorbell rang. I went to answer it, and three guys pushed in and yelled at Manny in Spanish. They're like, well,

So she starts crying. Then they had a gun.

They dragged her into her parents' bedroom and they raped her, all three of them, and they were laughing and shouting rock amos, which I guess is we rock and Benson translated that. Benson translates it to rollins, so she goes, that means we rock. And then they held a gun on Manny during the attack and made him watch, and they told him that he had to go next, but

I mean the way he grabbed this man's neck. I loved it.

So there's a kid in this house with his girlfriend and Finn was like, wait, I know you, Marisol, and she goes, so what and he's like, I thought you were done with that gang shit and like you stayed with your baby daddy. And she goes, he was a rat and rolls on everyone and the gang and they're like, well, no, he left you out of it.

He just rolled on the gang. She goes, the gang is my family and that's that, okay.

So the guys in cement room bars are saying that Manny is the one that invited them to come through. They're saying that she was into it and that she was coming like a freight train the whole time. And the main guy is hot and his smile is evil, and they're saying she wanted a trip, okay. And then they're these guys are saying that she wanted a trip to the boneyard. They're calling her a rich bitch. And so now we go visit her and she's in shock.

They're terrible.

We're like watching this grandma being beat in this elevator it's like I don't understand.

I know, and the and Manny's grandma is from many SVU episodes, right, isn't she the woman that works at the beef in the factory in beef Oh my god, yes, when uh Marishka is like many kugarachas Like yeah, holy.

Shit, yeah she is.

And I just don't like her being mugged, but whatever, so I know, so he probably joined the gang to protect her. So it's like Manny wanted to live a different life. So and then they start harassing his grandma to force him to join a gang that, like his brother died protected like fuck you, so they saw so.

Hot. Okay, so we're talking to SVDU Royalty.

Here it's the earwax man from the episode with the Big the companies to remember this episode. Wait, the earwax It's ridiculous, man, it's ridiculous, cureless, ridiculous.

Yeah, and he's also driving the beer truck at the super Bowl episode.

Yes, yeah, he's like in five episodes, he's amazing. So now he's here as well, and this time, you work, we got to get him on the show. I wonder if we've done all his episodes. So I feel like we talk about ridiculous, like all the goddamn sun, it's ridiculous. So he's like, I just drive the trucks and Rollins goes, okay, but you probably just also tell the gangs when the ox.

Okay, so they're doing everything.

They get him to talk, and then they bring up his brother and he goes, you think you're going to bring up my brother and that's going to make me talk, And Finn's like, damn, so you don't care about anybody. You're not gonna help Avery at all. He says, she can take care of herself. I saw that she doesn't need me, and Tomorrow's like, you're a fucking idiot. And so now they're in woodroom blinds with Avery, and Avery

Goes, remind me of like when they talk to male victims and the male victims are like, how could I have gotten an erection if I was being attacked? And it's like it's a bodily response, you.

Know, yeah, And so then she's like, I need to talk to him, so they let her visit wrikers.

She sits down across from him and they have a how are you off?

And she says sorry, and she says sorry to him, which is crazy. This makes me as mad as the Barbie movie, Like why is she apologizing? Why does she have to apologize him? She was like brutally raped and she just keeps worrying about him, like this.

Is so fun.

I'm sorry, like you got cooked so bad when I got raped, Like it's so bonkers. But she's a teen. And then it's like, you know, she's a teen. And she's explaining she's about to jump off a roof. She's also going through a lot. Yeah, she's explaining how it was.

She wasn't into it, she didn't feel anything that she was fully disassociated, like not in her body at all.

She couldn't stop it, and Amaro pipes in.

She's telling the truth, and she says, all I was worried about was you. You have to believe me. She's begging him. I she's begging him. He says, you're worried about me? Then walk away. Tell them nothing happened to you. She says, but you know that's not true. You have to tell the jury how they busted in. They held me down and forced me. I didn't want any of it. Please, And he just says I'm sorry and looks off and he is not going to help her. Rollin's and Tomorrow

Fuck you.

And they start talking about testifying, and the mom goes, we're going upstate.

We're going to our house for a few days.

We're getting the fuck out of here, and Benson and Rollins share a look of like, damn, our lives are hard as the family drive off. So, okay, room room. The gang's all here. So the gang starts attacking them in this wild motorcycle chase. So there's like got six motorcycles circling the car. The dad's not and then they like get in front of the vehicle and stop, and so the dad steps on the brakes.

This is like a very fast and furious like action sequence for us, for you, and.

You know, I would never judge anyone's behavior, but I would run over everyone in the motorcycle. Yeah, there's enough footage in New York City.

It would be all caught, Like, yeah, I would.

Because then what happens is they break the car with baseball bats. They beat the family to shit like they're breaking the car. They all get off their motorcycles and just like fully attack and yeah, bummer, And this is on the news, this crime because this is very salacious and gang violence and you know people like that, and so cut some ruises, broken ribs, wrists, Avery needs stitches

The parents are over it. They are done.

No one's talking, but Barbara just keeps talking about how hard it's going to be in court.

But I'm like, there's so much evidence.

You're saying there's fingerprints or this or that there's DNA, Like what is the confusion?

They also just beat this family with the bats.

They're like discussing this, but basically, if there's not a witness, then the gang members can kind of like spin anything they could be like, we were invited, we were this, we were that, and beyond a reasonable doubt, you can't really prove it without these other witnesses.

I don't know. I don't buy. I don't get this.

They need to make it easier to like bring people to justice without having to re traumatize people. I don't like it, Yeah, but it is what it is. So Amorrow wait over and he has an idea. He's like, let me chat with Manny again. I've been looking at his brother's murder and I have some ideas. So basically, witnesses said that he was shot by Del Toro Gang, this other gang, but that gun was never and recovered. But also all the witnesses that said it was Del Toro Gang were all b x nine.

And guess what.

Six months later, the gun was used as at a bodega and the bullet was stuck in the wall, and it was the same gun used for the brother's murder. But that robbery and the bodega was b X nine. So this is a community gun. This might be an inside job, and this is a Morrow's theory. So Benson says, go work on it, because you know, without avery, without Manny. These guys fucking walk like, we need to figure this out.

It's really theatrical. This guy's really funny.

He gives me like a Templeton the rat vibe, you know from Charlotte's.

Baby, Like he's just kind of like he's silly.

I'm like really into this guy, and I hope he gets out of the gang life.

But he has a sense of humor around him, so we.

Get what we get from the the like the guy also doesn't agree say anything out loud. It's all in the eyes, like, it's a lot of eye acting. But we get that this is an inside job and it's so fucked up. And also, the same gun that Manny used in the pharmacy stick up was the same gun that killed his brother.

They gave him his own brother's murder weapon as a community gun to do this aspirin stick up.

Jesus.

So now we're at the cemetery and Amaro and Finn brought Manny from Rikers to you don't know, run around the block. At the cemetery, Manny says, he's not talking, and they're walking and talking and they're like, the gang tried to kill your girlfriend and her family. Then they give him the information about his brother, and he will not believe him, and they're like, well, did they ever

I knew the dad was right.

Damn Og called me that night and said they were coming over to party. He knew what that meant, but he didn't want to know. And he could have called the cops. He could have gotten Avery out of there, but he froze, like they could have gone anywhere else. They could have gone to a movie, Like they didn't have to be in that fucking house, right, he didn't have to go over there like it is.

This is terrible.

I can't believe he did this and then make it her feel bad after her rape while she's crying over his fucking ass.

What she well, he set this up.

I know.

It's so awful.

He's like, once Avery finds out, she'll hate me for the rest of her life.

Go fuck yourself.

Nick says, you didn't protect her then, but maybe you can protect her now. So now he's sitting with Barbara, and they promise they're gonna, you know, keep it confidential. Manny knows that's not possible, but they promised round the clock protection, so they turn the camera on.

He talks right into the camera.

Avery, The worst thing you can do with these guys is show weakness, and they knew how much I loved you.

That's why this happened.

What he should have done is shoot up every pharmacy in town to spare you even a second of pain. So now we cut to Avery watching the tape. Rollins feels bad. Avery's really sad. He continues, I'm sorry.

Avery.

She says, I knew he would do the right thing, and she wants to thank him. But first Rollins goes, well, let me fill you in on the rest of the tape and the testimony and his role in all of this, and she's like, well, he had a gun to his head, and Rollin's goes, yeah, but he knew the gang was coming over. He knew, and he didn't tell me, which is a normal response for Avery to have. And this is like fucking arm breaking, and Rollin says, I'm so sorry. And then Avery goes, I thought he loved me. Oh

And I'm with Avery here.

Yeah, Finn interrupts and asks for Amanda. Yeah, Amanda's always going to defend Amana, so totally up her ally. So when Amanda like steps out, they get a call from Rikers Manny was found dead hanging in his cell about an hour ago, and his tongue was cut out. But also like duh, but also wasn't he supposed to be in protective custody? So then Barbara's on the same page I was, and saying what I said, which is like, wait,

So he gets off and Benson goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, a brutal gang rape. He's not going anywhere.

But he denies that it's a rape at all, and the lawyer says you both know that there's no case that video is out, and Barba's like, well, actually in the case of forfeiture for wrongdoing, and so then Ogi gets nervous and he's like, what the fuck is he talking about? And the lawyer explains, he's claiming that you had many killed to prevent him from testifying, and if he can prove that, which he can't, then Manny's taped slander would be allowed.

So that's like their big plan.

If they can prove that he was killed to stop him from testifying, then the tape gets to be used in trial. And then Ben's and goes, except we can prove that, and she leans in your girlfriend, Marisol, she made a call to you this morning. Huh. He goes, yeah, I had to calm her down, and Barbara goes, oh, no, you talked a little bit more than that. Prison phone calls aren't confidential, babe. It was her flipping out and

I crinched.

I was like, live, no, come on, you guys are special. Don't don't talk about being a gang. Don't talk about being a gang, because you guys already have.

A bad well you are the lie, the blue fin lie. Like you guys are this like this is so fucked like I want Benson to be safe, but god so but she's right, okay, So Barba says that's a direct threat, like let's get you protection. Of course, Live goes, I'm not living like that. I don't want anything and whatever. So now we cut to some aggressive painting. I've never seen a canvas be you know, such hard lines and it's avery painting.

You know, our artsy girl.

I don't think she made the art fair though, But Rollin's is like, damn girl, your paintings are a little different. And she goes, yeah, I don't know that girl anymore. And it's like truly just a paint on the like a heart on the canvas. But okay, so Rollin says she'll come back, and she goes, he knew, manny knew talking to the DA was a death sentence and Rollin says he couldn't let those men free. He couldn't live with that, and she says, oh, so you really did

Yeah.

She looks down and then keeps painting very aggressively, and then piano notes start playing and play into the end entire Dick Wolf Baby, and that's our.

Dick Wolf Baby. Oh my gosh. Okay, yeah, this episode is.

So I mean, I.

Don't know, I hate I really kind of hate all the gang ones because it does just feel like they have such control over people and everyone's like making And this is the kid who was like smart enough to get into a fucking this gifted high school and everything. He had a bright future ahead of himself and he just got caught up in this. But like he's bad, right, like he knew it was happening, but did they have something over him? Like I get a little bit confused with the plot of this one.

Oh, it's because he fucked up that like aspirin, because he fucked up because he wouldn't, like, you know, act enough like a gangster.

Like he also didn't even want to be a part of it. Yeah, they bullied him into it.

He didn't do a good job, and then they decided to But he he just shouldn't have gone over, like they should have left the Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know.

But like I said, it's like a worldview and they don't have it. But he was also he probably had a totally different worldview. He was going to this like gifted programs school. Yeah, it's devastating, but also betrayals climax.

You know, it's like an uncomfortable it's all uncomfortable. Yes, it's all very uncomfortable. Yeah, it's all sad. I've convoluted and tell us about the crime.

Okay, so this episode is based on a like assault that took place with MS thirteen, which you know, for a lot of people, MS thirteen is like the right wing talking point gang that we talk about all the time. MS thirteen is just flooding into this country and blah blah blah. But it stands for Mara Salvatruca, which is

So like originally it was like.

No, let's like support our fellow, you know, Salvadorans, and then no, it turned into you know, running drugs, guns, murder, rape, all kinds of crimes in the Richmond, Virginia area. In August of twenty thirteen, Jose Armando Brand aka Pantro, which oh, okay, Pantro is just Panthro, which is the name of a character in the Thundercat series.

But I don't know if that's where this guy got his nickname.

That a Thundercat's nickname might be a little embarrassing for like the leader of a clique.

But he is thirty years old.

He gets two consecutive life sentences for crimes he committed and orchestrated.

As the leader of a.

MS thirteen subset or click called Sailor's locos saval truca and I hope I'm pronouncing that right. I'm not a perfect Spanish speaker. And then allegedly Jose Mancilla Martinez aka Ready became the new leader of this click within a mesertine which is in the Chesterfield County, Virginia area. So he was he was given the life sentences in August

But then as she was sitting on the.

Couch, Moncia Martinez forced her down by her shoulders. When she screamed, he pulled a machete on her. So both girl, both boys raped this girl and like at machete point. I don't know how to say it other than that like, and then took her home, where she told her mother

But I don't know how what that has to do with his own crime. That's just like this quote from the report that I read.

So Mancilla Martinez had also been investigated by the FBI for a murder in Richmond in twenty twelve, so he's already on their radar as like a gang member. And before his sentencing, Chesterfield Circuit Judge Stephen C. McCallum was presented with evidence that Mancilla Martinez had been involved in another gang related assault while he was being held in

And it's just like kind of fucked.

Because like what the guy said in the episode is true, Like I think prisons are places that gangs just recruit new members. So the other boy, Hernandez.

So you need loyalty you need protection, you need you need protection and prisons. So it's like, yeah, yeah, i'd be fucking desperate. I probably joined something I didn't want to. Yes, yeah, we can't all be Edward Norton in the corner reading you know what I mean?

No, no, exactly exactly. I mean there's yeah, there's episode like I mean in Sons of Anarchy, there's like a whole storyline about this guy who is in this motorcycle gang even though and he can't let them find out that he's part black because they're so racist that he's like, but then in jail, like he's you know, he's got to get in with these gangs and stuff for present, for help or protection, you know. So it's I don't know, it's a it's a complicated ecosystem in prison.

But because I have.

Hebrew letters on the back of my heads, manek, so I wouldn't really be able to join the like white power.

So I don't know why that would be tough. I think you could be taken in by other groups. I think other groups would take you in for your for your other your saying.

If someone recognized me from Survival of the Thickest, I could join the Black group.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's Michelle Putoe's roommate.

I think that's my only way to protection. Oh my god.

Well, if it was orange and New Black, I mean red is Russian, right, would she have taken you under her wing?

I I think she.

Yeah, unless she really hated Jews too, I'm really not sure.

Yeah, it's a great question. I think she was okay with you.

Yeah, I think I could join maybe a I don't want to fuck with the I don't know, girl, It's not an ideal situation, no matter how he slice it.

I'm just saying, so he is. Yeah.

So then the other guy, uh, the other one who was seventeen at the time, eighteen at the time of sentencing, Hernandez. He pled guilty and marched also to rape and was sentenced to three and a half years in a state juvenile correctional facility. And I get, and I guess as part of a blended sentence of juvenile and adult punishment, which I had never heard of before. Hernandez also got ten years in adult prison, but with all ten years suspended.

So I don't really.

Get that, but I guess his lawyer probably made a case like if you plead guilty, We'll get you juvenile because it wasn't your idea and this guy was clearly the leader and he probably said.

He made you do it or something like that. I don't know, but.

Yes, Chesterfield Prosecutor BJ McGee said Mancia Martinez instigated the attack and Hernandez was pressured by his friend to participate.

So that is the story.

And yeah, it's not like widely reported on outside of the Richmond area press outlets that I that I found, But I mean, I'm sure there's a many, many unreported instances of guys and gangs using attacks on girlfriends as like leverage and payback and revenge and all kinds of stuff. So it's not like this is the only thing that this was probably based on.

But that case happened.

Like, yeah, a year before this episode came out about, So that's.

That on that.

But yeah, dark all around. But we have a guest. We have a great guest, So fantastic guess. Don't go anywhere. Our guest today is an actor and filmmaker who you may know from shows like Younger or Donnie. She also wrote, directed, and starred in the feature films The Country Club and a New York story, but you know her best as our victim in today's episode, Avery Capshaw. Please enjoy our very interesting conversation with Fiona Robert. This is uh so

Tell me about the audition. Yeah, I'm like reading praumatic art.

Yeah.

I had a weird title too, like it's like a real.

Totally fucked up yes. Wait yeah, not me, just understanding that right now. When you pointed it out, I was like, what do you mean, Oh my god, ill.

Yeah, it's definitely like a hook title, right, like it's yeah, I'm the audition for it. So I this was like the first job I ever got in New York, and I had actually auditioned for a different episode of Law and Order that I and all I wanted was to be on Law and Order because every actor that I respected had done one Law and Order episode in their career. So I was like desperate to get on the show. And so I was called in for a different episode.

Yeah, we can't say defectively.

Yeah, So I got pretty close to that one, like I had a producer session and everything, and then and meand I didn't get it, and the feedback was that I didn't look like I had been in the cave for like an abasement for like a month. I think I was like a little too I don't know, like polished or cute or whatever not to you know, but anyway, so then I was like okay, sad. And then I got actually a tape for this, so I didn't go

Well did they tell you? Which understandably understandable.

But SVU is always pretty graphic and fucked, so I'm wondering what specifically about this one turned people away.

So I went in years later to audition for the same casting director for like a series regular part.

I think it was like Chicago med or something.

And when I walked into the audition, actually he said like she was on like one of the hardest episodes of SVU that I ever had to cast. And I think it was because there's like there was like three pivotal scenes where in the script it said like she is bawling.

It was like when she.

Almost jumps off the roof, and then when she admits to like the rape, and then again when she admits to like having the orgasm.

And I think it's like a very vulnerable scene.

Like those are really vulnerable scenes, all three of them alone and in like a show or an episode would be intense. And then to have to be at that, not to use the word, but climax of emotion is like, you know, I think actresses would look at that and just go like, you know, they give you two takes on lawn order, Yeah, two takes, So like what if I get cast and then I go in there and I can't do it in two takes?

I think it's scary for actors.

So what is your method to be able to kind of deliver in the in these moments. Well, because you delivered her You're out, you were crying, you were in a the emotion was there.

Yeah, I mean I was a Meisner actor, Like I went to NYU and so it's like, I.

Oh, that sounds funny.

It's like no, it's more that like that was what I was doing every day in class. So like I think I was just like in the in the world of it, because like that was what Meisner acting is is you have to like go and imagine deeply these like horrific things that have happened to you, like every day. So sorry that sounded so catty, but but what I mean is just like I was doing it in class every day.

Yeah, so it was pretty easy.

You trained for this. You trained for this so well.

I mean I was looking at your IMDb and like, this seems like it was one of your first gigs, although you were in a show for ten episodes called Sex House, and I'd love to tell more about that, but but like, were you feeling kind of like new, like because you hadn't done like a ton of on camera stuff yet, Like, were you like a little nervous going into it?

Yeah, I mean I didn't really definitely, it was definitely like my first TV thing. And even after that, I was on Younger and there was still things I was learning about TV that I didn't really understand, like hitting a mark, for example, and I thought it was sort of like a loose you stand sort of right here,

I was like, okay, because you've got to be in focused on camera. Yeah I was, but I wasn't.

I don't remember being nervous because I remember just really wanting to be on the show and also knowing that, like I don't know, it was like that I could do it.

So it was fine and you were prepared, you were ready.

I was ready, guys.

And then it says that Philip Seymour Hoffman on your IMDb discovered you you're in a play with Tom Hardy, like, well at the Goodman Theater, which is you know, very well known.

Tell us about that, Well, yeah, this was it's so funny now, I'm looking back on this like career retrospect. It's like all my parts happened in like a very similar way. Where again they were like looking for someone who was the actual age. It was a play at the Goodman and the girl was supposed to be fifteen, I think or fourteen, and they had a lot of actresses coming in who were trying to play that age, and they said, we want someone who's actually that age.

So then what happened was I didn't hear anything for like two weeks.

And then I'm at my friend's house actually in Evanston, and I get a phone call from my mom and she's like, there's a voicemail. They want you to come back in, Like it's the audition is this morning, Saturday, ten am. Like they keep calling and they've left all these voicemails to see if you're coming or not because we just didn't like, look, the voicemail's on the landline, right, And so I go back in and I audition and it goes really really well, and I end up getting the part.

And the playwright told me later that for that callback, the casting director actually put my name back on the list like at the bottom and the and Phil was like, no, we've already seen this girl, like she's not we're not doing this, and the casting director was like, just please see her again. I really think she's the one for this part, and he just like put my name on the list anyway, and so they saw me again and

I was like, so there you go. Yeah.

When I went back and I was like, yeah, yeah, no I see the difference. Yeah, no, I definitely So that was I got it.

I'm obsessed with this casting director.

Yeah. He was amazing. He like started my career. What's his name, Adam God?

He was.

He was wonderful.

Yeah. I'm glad they're finally getting an oscar and getting recognized. And I feel like casting's really been shunned aside in terms of Adam Belcour. Okay, shout out to Adam Belcour. Adam Belcour fighting for people.

It's quite literally, I don't know if the story is true either. I'm full of like stories of maybe true.

Who knows what story? Did it run for?

It ran first, I think for six weeks.

So what was your life like? Full high school?

And then we're and then you would run off a day. Yeah.

I would leave every day at three and I would do like four or five hours of rehearsal, I think. And then there were some days that I was there all day from ten am onward, and it was amazing to be in the room with Tom Hardy and Philip Seymour Hoffman and watch them work together and the playwrights and the whole team that was involved because it was only five people in the play, so it was a very intimate cast. And yeah, everyone's gone on to do

Oh wow.

Yeah, And I didn't know that the time that was going to be this like huge movie and I was like, really cool, Tommy, And.

Then trying to tell you what it's about, You're like, cool, makes sense. Yeah, I still haven't seen it.

Wait, but Tom Hardy is one of the top hot people in the nation. Were I would say, so full movie star now. Yeah, And did you feel like you were a teen where you were like this guy's hot.

No, I don't know.

I think because he played my dad in the play. Yeah, I was like very as an actor. I was very much in the space of trying to bond with him in like a fatherly way.

And actually we did bond over rap music. We were both very into rap music at the time. And he made me a mixed CD which I still have, Oh my God of British rap music. And I made him a Little Wing CD mixed.

Seed wowing together.

Culture is coming together.

And there's like a great photo of us sitting on a couch and I have one ear pod and he has the other ear pod and we're for sure listening to Little Wing.

Oh my god, that's cute.

Wow, maybe I can take it up.

You and Tom Hardy besties forever.

I love that.

Well, yeah, now the email bounces if I'm.

Like, are you still doing theater actively or is it not?

You want to be on films?

I yeah, I don't know.

I I think I wasn't really interested in theater very much when I moved to New York, which is crazy, but only because I think as an actor, I'm the type of person that digs very, very deep, and I found it to be really hard to be digging really deep for eight shows a week when they're paying you three hundred dollars. And then also somebody's like, no, I haven't seen it because it's theeter yeah, And I was like, if I'm going to go this deep and work this hard,

And yeah, I want to ask you about that. I was seeing on your IMDb.

You've got the Country Club, a fellow s v Alum, James Romaniac, Friend of the Pod, and Elaine Hendrix from Parent Trap, who I know we all stand.

And then you've made a New.

York story and then you with your sister in these movies and right, and like, yeah, but you're in them and you direct and write them.

Yeah, And I mean it's all from the same place, which is that I was really finding it hard to dig deep for projects that were like horror films and things that I you know, I felt like I was just working so hard on stuff and then it was sort of there's a lot of violence that was not really thought through, and a lot of rape not really

Write director Alex Black, and then.

We're also working tell us.

Yeah it's called The Revisionist, okay. And then our fourth feature is going to be a murder mystery. So we're doing that now. Yeah, And I find that.

To be a lot more fulfilling because I just I feel so creative. I still put myself in the projects. I'm in the Dustin Hoffman movie as well, like I you know, I do all of that, and we worked with other amazing producers.

We're not the leads on that one. I don't know.

I just think like grabbing control of your own creativity and your own work as an actor can be really fulfilling. But also the industry has I'm so long winded, I'll pause so you.

Can no go ahead. You're being interesting.

It's not like a boring nightmare that we've you know, we don't edit around this.

Well, I just going to say that since Lawn Order, right, and since I decided I didn't want to audition for horror movies where I was being raped, and I'm.

Like digging deep for that.

I the industry has changed so much, and I feel like the actresses that are coming up now are so freaking lucky because the character breakdowns. For me, when I was eighteen nineteen going out for this stuff, every single character is had hot.

At the front.

It doesn't matter if she was about to be like killed, you know, run over by a truck. They're like, but hot. And I was like, okay, and now that's not the case.

I see I don't forget hot, but she doesn't know it. Yes, exactly, that's important. She can't know it, right.

Yes, No, you're absolutely right.

I would always say that specifically because I would go out for those I was never going out for, Like she's a model.

I was going out for hot, but she.

Goes out for sure.

Yeah. So now it's almost like I went through this. I started filmmaking and doing all this like doing extra, you know, being real the extra, And now the industry has changed, so I just waited it out.

Yeah you're still in it. You could do anything. But yeah, you're right.

Breakdowns now are definitely like open to all. That doesn't mean that that's how casting will go, but definitely the breakdowns are like we're open to anything and anything more conscious.

So they're like buy some more conscious, like yeah, body type and looks and open ethnicity. I mean, just wasn't like that back then.

Yeah, and now it are just famous people's children, right, I was got to say, And now it's like, how many follows, followers do you have?

You can be in this movie?

Well, evil doesn't die.

Yeah, that's so true. It takes on different forms. Yeah. Wow, that's crazy.

Did you always work well with your sister? Was she always artsy and went to the same high school as you.

She didn't go to the same high school, but she was a ballerina and she studied in Germany at a serious state ballet.

School in Germany.

Wow.

And then she decided it was too hard on them is a lot of ballerinas do. And she wanted to get into acting, and I wanted to get into like writing and directing. I mean I was like twenty four when I decided that. And I called her and I said, I'm making an LLC and I can either call it X or I can call.

It Robert's Sisters. What do you think? And she's like sure, yeah, yeah. So that's how we started our company.

And we made this like little movie, The Country Club, which is like very fun and funny, and I.

Know John Higgins.

Yes, so we loved John Higgins.

We got and he was amazing in it, and he's so funny and it's so funny because I look back on that movie and I just like, wish it was like slightly better made.

But that's my fault. No, I'm not. I have twenty five.

I actually just started watching what's his name Wes Anderson on YouTube. It's like a fifty five minute video of him going through all his projects.

I'm sure he's like doing press for something new.

And I started it last night and it's him talking about Bottle Rocket and he's like, yeah, it wasn't that good, but this and that and this sucked, and that didn't work out and this and it's you know, then you make more.

I watched Bottle Rockets seventy five times in college. My favorite movie.

Yeah, I used to love that.

I love it sucked and how.

This I'm like, didn't suck for me? When I was twenty one, he.

Said, like, first day making it, they kept and he goes, and then the scene started working in the takes, so we were figuring stuff out.

So it is, you know, a process.

But I'm very proud of our second movie, A New York Story, which it's so funny, is a gentler look at class because it's about a woman from the Upper East Side and she falls in love with the street photographer who's like from green Point and it's a very simp like it's it has parallels to this Law and Order episode, the sort of romance from one side of the tracks or whatever. But yeah, that's our second movie.

But it's really like impressive that at twenty four you were just like I'm in a storm making movies, Like I don't think a lot of people would think that they could do that or would know how to do that.

That's really impressive, Like thank you.

Well. It actually coincided with I think Trump's first election, and I remember I literally remember having the thought, if that man can be the president of the United States, I think I can make a movie. It was like, yeah, all the walls came crashing down of idealizing men and thinking that like them being in positions of power was like the right thing.

And I was just like, oh no, like I can do this. So I couldn't, but I.

Thought like, no, you can.

The still all looks so good, like all these photos. So are your parents artsy?

My parents are both union psychologists. Okay, wish I was enough.

Of ungian psychologists.

And my mom is a professional astrologer, so like me more la.

Yeah wait, that's hilarious.

Like your sister went to ballet, you were at an arts high school, Tonight's I mean these psychologists were supportive.

That Young is all about finding your own path, and he's also about you know, imagery and like the hero's journey.

Young psychologists. Yeah yeah, young Young Union like the unions. Unions they're on the picket line, like they're helping people in unions get through their problems.

Okay, that makes more sense.

Maybe I got it.

I didn't get it.

Yeah, No, they're both psychologists and they're young young psychologists.

Wait but did they meet in psychology? She's school like, well, so they both.

Of one met it Notre Dame.

Yeah, so what okay? Would you guys talk about young growing up all the time?

Like all the time, every and every dream I had, my dad was like, let's talk about that, like what what does it mean that you're standing in the cornfields

I think filmmaking and writing is like a better pursuit for me maybe than acting because I have a large understanding depth and understanding of archetypes and like image and all that so from my parents.

But wow, is there anything you've learned about like being on the sets and doing all this that informs your film making or like when you're directing on set, or like a way you felt where you're like, oh, I'm going to make sure to do this or I don't want to do this when I'm in charge.

If you have the actor's perspective so much.

Yeah, no, it there, it has.

But it's hard to think of one thing because I definitely still when I'm working with actors, I think about like what would Phil do? He was definitely my biggest directing mentor because he's the director I actually spend the most time in the room with. I think our phearsal process was like four weeks or five weeks every day, and so I mean, you know, his his process that I think is really important is being like extremely prepared

You know, lots of different experiences.

And then because that's something that like dust And Offen was saying, you know, he was like when we were on set with him, he was saying, if you see a director and they're standing at the monitor and they're mouthing every word, don't work with them, because he was like, they just want to see their words on screen. They don't want to see like you know, you need to have a live performance.

And so then I was like, oh no, like one of those directors.

So then I.

Felt like that was a big learning moment.

So I'm still learning and just getting to work with great actors and great directors.

You continue to.

Yeah, it just hit me that, like you directed Dustin Hoffman. No, no, I didn't. I helped produce produce.

Yes, I was with him. Yeah.

Did you have any other like s vu, any interactions with the cast besides I know you said Marushka was really supportive and complimentary.

Iced tea, Uh.

Maloney was gone by that key or about like the makeup and hair team because you had to do a lot that you know, you got bruises, you had a lot.

Of Oh yeah, oh yeah, I so iced tea. I was eating ice cream underneath the underneath the interrogation table, like during a scene. He kept like at when they would cut, he would like the bite of ice cream. It was the last episode of the season. I think that they were shooting, so they were doing sort of like a big celebratory Christmas thing. I'm pretty sure mrsh got like pink berry for everybody and there was like a full hog on the craft table. The budget the

Of makeup and hair team.

I do have one funny story, which was that when I went in, they like dusted my face with powder basically, and then they were like, Okay, you're good to go.

And I was like, what, Like, I'm gonna be on TV.

For the first time and you're not gonna make me look pretty? And they were like, well, the director doesn't think that, like she should look very good because she's about to jump off the building or you know.

And I was like, oh right, okay.

And so I like left the trailer and I'm look looking at my face and I'm like, okay, it's just I'm going in bare face.

And I had this chapstick that was like slightly tinted, so I was like, what if I just put this like chapstick on my lips?

And so I did, and then we had to do like a photo shoot pictures of me and Manny that they were going to use in the background I think are on social media or something. So we do the photo shoot and then the ad I think comes out. She's like are you wearing lipstick? And I was like what, no o? And they were like I was like, oh, I do have this chapstick that's tinted.

I guess I shouldn't put that on.

And they were like no, please, like we're gonna take that off and like redo it.

And I was like okay, So yeah, I don't know. I was like vain. I think I was like eighteen or nineteen, so whatever.

Now I feel yeah, no, but also what attention to detail that they noticed the tint the light tent.

Good for them, absolutely, jeez.

I love him eating ice cream underneath the table.

I know I friends that they were like ice team or like ice cream he was.

He was in Times Square yesterday. I got a lot of people sending me scoopy really. Yeah.

He was doing Raising Canes press promo.

Of course that's his second most important venture, I think, behind us v you.

But I have friends that work at Nickelodeon, so it's in Times Square, so they're like they just saw him on the way to work.

Oh my gosh, oh Fiona, thank you so much for taking the time.

This was.

Damn so young, so accomplished and driven. Another good review from Ted. He liked Fiona. Oh yeah, oh yeah, but he goes, how do how do I come up?

I go, I bring you up to anyone that went to NYO or like has acted in New York.

I go, I'm pushing you. I'm pushing the attenda.

Sorry dead, but you're like, you're not actually just like organically coming up through the person.

It's Lisa mostly is bringing you up. But uh yeah, sorry, if you can hear my kids.

By the way, guys, they are fighting outside the door of where I'm recording.

I'm on, I'm traveling.

Uh but post mortem on this episode, God, I don't know.

It's like, don't these date people in gangs? Say that? Is that politically correct?

I don't think you should date someone in a gang if you could get out of the gang, get out.

Of the gang.

The problem is is that this kid was like smart and I think really did love her at some point, you know, at some point before he got fully like roped into the crime. But he like they get you at every angle. They're like, we're gonna kill your grandma, We're gonna kill this person, We're gonna you know, like you you you lose any control, they find a way to get to you.

Yeah, so everyone's dead. Oh my god, it's so intense.

Yeah, yeah, it's uh, but she keeps saying about him, even when even at the end it's just like, you know, like he loved me more than anything.

I'm like, I don't know this, Yeah, this is stuff. What was his option, like to take his grandmother and go hide? I don't know.

It's uh yeah, gang stuff always feels I mean, it feel it's like mafia. It's like it's organized crime. You know, it's uh, it's a network. It's not just like one perpetrator. It's like fully a community. But then I understand why a lot of circumstances lead people to believe that they're protected and they're being treated well in these in these groups.

You know. I just hate when this show makes me feel opposite of how I feel, because I'm like, just listen to your father.

He wasn't no good.

Yeah, you know, I mean yeah, because the parents were probably just like being racist, and then they were like, oh no, we were right, they were right in this case. In this case, they were right, but god damn. And then the real story was like.

Only date within your class. That's the only way of that where.

Yeah, you have to just within your class, you know us, That's how we feel.

You know.

One of our friends was wearing a shirt she got for ninety eight dollars, but it was a four hundred dollars shirt, and like it looked so expensive and so comfortable in chic, like Gwyneth Paltry would wear this shirt and it was a casual shirt, not a dressed up shirt. And I'm like, this is the wealthy. This is why we can't even they know what they could see right through us, Like we can't even pretend this shirt just like I couldn't believe how nice it looked, button down silk.

Your outfit costs thousands.

It's like when Taylor Swift they do her outfit breakdowns, and even without the jewelry, just like skirt, shirt, shoes, purse, it's usually around six thousand dollars if not more. Yeah, with two pieces usually still being affordable.

Yeah, which it's crazy because usually the purses are like in the in the five figures, you know, like ten thousand dollars, twenty thousand dollars.

Person, No, I mean you're right, I'm even under selling it.

Like, yeah, you know, and that's that's upper twenty five thousand, the shades twenty five thousand. You know, that's a yeah, housewatch reference for the people that can't see me. I'm holding I'm looking at my glasses and saying twenty five thousand. I am staying close by to some pizza place or Italian place that apparently Taylor Swift goes to all the time in Brooklyn called Lukali.

Oh.

I think that was one of the first times they went to dinner in oh Okay. It's like apparently, let me look haf to get in there because she goes there and all these like famous people go there. Yeah, this was like one of the first dinners. This was like exciting sheer sheer outfit.

Nice.

Oh but her and Travis were first dating. You mean yeah, I really think so. Let me just double check the date on the article. Yeah, September seven, twenty twenty four.

Yeah, but I only know it from like the paparazzi photos. Wow, Blake Lively and what's her face? All of that kind of is done right.

Done out of the zeitgeist of oh you mean her and the all it ends with us drama.

Yeah, like it's done, everything's been dismissed.

Oh my god, Diddy, I honestly Idaho Diddy, what do we save it for next week?

I mean at this point, like this is sorry, Like listen, it's summer, we're traveling. It's like we are in the time, Massie. I've never taken a day off and not to be Marian missed an episode. We've never replayed an episode, we've never done a re release. So by the time this comes out, we will know the Diddy verdict, like they're already deciding right now.

They decided he was found not guilty on the most serious charges, and he was found guilty on two of the charges. So it's basically like he paid for the sex trafficking, but he didn't facilitated or something like that. And in the comments as of yesterday there was they were they were still deadlock on one charge.

So I didn't know that it was out. Oh oh wow, okay, sorry.

Oh maybe I'm right. Yeah, found guilty on processutequited of.

Sex trafficking and racketeering, the biggest one because that would have been a minimum of fifteen And so this is all from an hour ago. You knew this, You knew this very fresh. Yeah, I've been I don't know. I'm damn, I've been on it. Yeah, he's gonna get fresh for us. But you guys will have heard this eight weeks later. Yeah, but you're kind of listening in real time to people, you know. I just am reading this. This is like,

They're hoping still for four to five years in prison. I just hope he goes to prison, Like, yeah, I don't do I wish she sat there for twenty years. Sure, Like do I believe he is a sex trafficker and crime like leader?

I do, Sorry, I do that.

Also, the video of him beating the shit out of cats, like all of it is so fucked up. He also paid Cassie fifty million dollars like he is guilty of awful crimes.

He tried to flee on a jet like fuck you.

But if he gets four to five years, it'll be some sort of justice, some sort But if they don't, the defense attorneys are trying to fight for two years, so he'll at least go to jail.

Yeah, and there's like a charge of get that he assaulted one of his victims while he knew he was under investigation. Like wow, okay, oh boy, there's too much and they're going to take out the time that he already served pre verdict. But yeah, crazy, All right, let's let's get to what would Sister Peg Do?

This week?

For What Would Sister Peg Do, which you know is our weekly segment where we direct you towards an article, a documentary, an organization, something to give you more info about what we talked about today. This week for WWSPD, we wanted to point you to Homeboy Industries. They are an organization that provides training and support to formerly gang involved in pre incarcerated people, allowing them to redirect their

That's messed up pod. Yeah, get on over there. Yeah, And next week there's another one. Trick rolled at the Mulan. I said Mulan like the cartoon princess, not like the Mulan Rouge.

Do you say them this time? I think you say the same way.

Well, I saw it as Mulan. Yeah, I would say Mulan, Mulan. Yeah, I would say Mulan rouge, yeah, m yeah.

But yeah, next week sure, And I'm sorry I signed so hard. It is what it is. But I'm just thinking about everything, Okay. Trick at the Mulin.

Oh No.

Season twenty two, episode thirteen. Get with it guys and see.

Us live in New York.

Yeah, it's fourteen, August fourteenth at the Bellhouse. We're so excited to see you guys live. We'll see you next week for another episode.

Bye e.

That's messed up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it. That's messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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