Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.
These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Done done.
Hi, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger. We're talking SVU. We're talking crimes, and then we have celeb guests. It's really a jam packed podcast and I listen, I have a lot to say.
Yeah, we have a lot of like random things to talk about this morning, this one today.
Like So for me, I would like to say I have hung out with members of the band Lamb of God two times in one week now, and I got to go to the Rainbow Room, which is like a metal rock and roll bar with people that are in a popular metal band and sit in like a booth where guns of Roses sat. So I felt excited. It was thrilling. Thank you Frank Castillo for knowing the drummer.
I would love somebody to go to our Apple podcast reviews and leave a review like they won't stop name dropping Lamb of God, like that you went out with a.
Metal band.
I love this name drop because I don't know who this is. When she told me, I was like, oh nit, are they a band? Like I was a full mom. And then I asked Jared and my husband and he was like, oh, awesome, like he loves metal and they're they're well.
Because my friend Frank is such a stoner and is in the weed. Like I assumed they were weed guys. But one does have a long gray beard and long gray hair, so I should have put it together that maybe metal was in his life. But then I ended my evening terribly with a cut tree fried steak in the middle of the night.
What makes a steak country fried? Is it like breaded?
It's breaded and fried baby served with hash browns, pancakes and eggs.
Shit, And we all got it.
I kind of like when you go to a restaurant, everyone gets the same thing, Like that's that's what.
We don't mind group mind. Yeah.
But anyway, so very Hollywood, and it's tough because I'm trying to work on myself in lots of different avenues and it's like I want to be more social but then treat my body better, and it's like you can't do both. Yeah, if you're someone who can treat your body well and be social, that's not the fun I want to have.
I'm not bowling sober for sure.
I mean you want to have fun, but then it's also really hard to be healthy or I don't know, have children. Everything is difficult. I but I was jealous when I heard about your fun night out. I never get to quote. If I'm up at four am, it's because I'm feeding someone a bottle. So it's exciting that you get to rock and roll.
Rock and roll is exactly.
I was actually gonna go back because because I had some yogurts delivered, I had like groceries at the house, so they were all going to go out, and I was like, I think I'm gonna head home. And my friend looked at me and went, we're going We're going out with Lamb of God. Like you're right, what am I I'm gonna go home to get my groceries and salad kits Like no, I'm going.
So what happened with the grocery sitting there when you got home?
Yeah, of course one yogurt is missing, but I'm just gonna get a reef. I don't think anyone took the yogurt, but I was excited to have a maple yogurt.
Maple is an underused flavor that I It.
Was also quite chilly out yesterday, so I'm sure your food stayed nice and fresh.
Oh yeah, I wasn't worried. And someone is trying to stress me out. They're like, what about raccoons. I'm like, I'm not stressed about it, and I don't know why you're trying to make it.
I don't really think we have the same kind of raccoon issue in LA because sometimes, like my we'll put our trash out on our patio and I'm like, Jared, I'm worried about raccoons, and he'll leave it there all night, and we don't have raccoon bites or anything, So I'm not I don't think.
That's a thing.
I just watched a video on my phone of a person's window in their and like three raccoons trying to get in, like pawing at the window, like wanding into the apartment.
All those raccoons are I.
Love a raccoon in theory. They're little hands. I think it's oh yeah, they look like little burglars, but like, aren't they like vicious.
Yeah, but they prank cats like they're just their garbage.
People raise them as pets, didn't Kirsty Ali.
And we had to read Kirsty Ali's book for a podcast that we will uh we will disclose to you at a future time.
But like, uh, she like had pet raccoons.
I think if you're raising raccoons, you have problems. And I don't care if you're a raccoon a razor out there, you're a weird.
You have to admit you're weird.
Yeah, okay, So I wanted to really quickly bring something up today on the podcast because a couple of listeners have contacted us, and this is something that we're pretty into that we like to call out when there's women on death row unnecessarily or unfairly, and there is a I just want to bring attention to this case that's happening right now.
This woman is named.
Melissa Lucio, and uh, we're going to post it on our stories. But essentially, this woman has, like as so many women do, a horrible history of abuse and sexual assault and violence in her life. And she had a two year old daughter who died in an accident falling down a flight of stairs and then she was interrogated by police for hours and hours and hours on end
until she just said, I guess I did it. And now she's on fucking death row and she had nothing to do with her her daughter's death, and it's really fucking unfair. And I'm really hoping that they can because I think she says there is this this is in Texas, and she's set to be executed at the end of April, so like many judges have said that this trial was unfair, so I'm really hoping that they're going to be able to commute her sentence. But it is Texas, so who
fucking knows. But anyway, we're going to put a link to this on the Instagram. But I just wanted everyone to go and like sign the petitions, go to Innocence Project, Like just google her name Melissa Lucio. We'll put the petition on our thing. I just wanted to bring some light to that because we do talk about that all the time.
So what happened, Yeah, I want to I definitely have to catch up on that because I don't know and that makes me really upset.
Yeah, it's a really tough story and I'm sorry to go right from your fun night with Limb of God
into that, but such is the intro to this podcast. Also, I wanted to shout out that I've talked about You're wrong about before the podcast that I like, and they just did an interview this week or are they're One of the most recent episodes is about junk science and a lot of it has to do they mentioned SVU, like a lot of it has is all about the junk science around crime, and like blood spatter is mostly junk science, like fingerprint evidence is like kind of not proven.
Like there's all this interesting stuff. So I'm not even done with the episode. I just wanted to shout it out and say if people are interested, it's kind of hey, but are these things admissible in court or not? Or is it just to help solve the crimes for detectives or does this blood splatter or spatmatter? Does the we read the messages blood spatter like, so are people using
it in court or not? Basically, it's like what they're talking well, you got to listen to the whole episode, but what she's talking about is like there's definitely a lot of the times this is like a certification course that someone can take to become quote unquote an expert in that. But like it's like it's not always yes, an expert can walk onto a crime scene and say, okay, judging by the pool of blood here, probably this person was attacked from behind. It's just not always completely accurate
and crazy. Something that they talk about is breathalyzers are incredibly inaccurate, and people are getting fucking DUI's left and right across this whole country. It's a whole industry of DUI's, like DUI lawyers breath alized, like this whole thing. And it's like there can be I think there's something like a forty percent inaccuracy rate in breathalyzers, and that's just like the science that we've accepted and it's not accurate.
So it's a really really cool episode that I think people need to listen to.
I was always taught you never blow. Yeah, I wouldn't blow if I got pulled over, Absolutely not. You give them nothing.
Yeah, if we learned anything that's not junk science, you give them nothing. And then we obviously have to talk about the most SVU crime that's ever happened in twenty oh my God, I don't even know if SVU would do, would go this far, but go on, a teacher and her weird boyfriend cop husband put jiz sperm in some cupcakes and gave them to the children, and they are in jail. But the New York Post was sallacious and it said that she got forty one years for feeding
the cum cupcakes, which I thought was excessive. But I was then told by better sources Kara, my friend Steve last night, Josh that they were found with a bunch of child sex abuse images and then like assaulting teens together. So yeah, it's barbecular style. But how did they find out about the sperm cakes? Like, That's what I don't understand, Like who told on them? Did they brag about it? Did a kid know it was jizz? That's bad too.
I wonder if she gave that information to the cops for leniency, like if she was like, hey, he made me do this or whatever, and then that story got out because it's so fucking psycho and sallacious.
You know, Yeah, Okay, Louis admits she admitted doing it. Why is it always the Post every article that's I don't think every source lets to cover it.
Yeah, if you're talking about jiz cakes, you're talking about the New York Post. I mean, like that's who's talking about it, you know, like that's where you're gonna get.
Your number one source in jiz news.
And she, I think, is going to turn him, and like the Post was saying, she's gonna prove what a monster he is. So we'll see what kind of abuse this cop is about.
But ugh, yeah, I mean it's tough because it's like, yeah, she could be abused, like she could be a victim herself.
But like but and then I was talking to someone. I don't know, it could have been you. I don't know where who I was talking to. But they're like the sick part too, is she just sat there watching the kids eat the sperm cakes like she liked that.
Yeah, Like because the husband probably wasn't there for that, So even if he forced her to bring in come laced cupcakes, she could have thrown them away, you know. Was he like send me video of them eating it, like it's like weird.
Yeah? Yeah, she pled guilty. She admitted to her crimes and pled guilty, waived any right to appeal.
Wow.
Yeah, Oh they filmed a juvenile bathing. I don't know. Forty one years is just so much. But it's also deesah.
Because she's like thirty six, so she would be like seventy seven coming out of jail. It is effect it's like not a life sentence, but it's not.
But maybe she.
Would get time off for good behavior. It's like, is there no, is there? There is probably possibility of parole, right.
I don't know, but she also like.
She is a danger to society and yeah, yeah, you know, can you trust her? She's feeding sperm to the children.
That is so fucking gross.
This is gonna be an SVU. There's no way they can't do this.
Oh my Lamb of God voice, it's going do you guys hear the cracks.
To stay out in La? So four am is like pretty great.
That is fun because La is an earlier town. It's not like Chicago or New York. You know wait, I wanted to also bring up this is so funny, but like I thought that you might appreciate this because of
your cookie jar obsession. Yeah, so a listener wrote into us and said that they for wedding gifts will give something called a nookie jar, and they it's a cookie jar, but you're supposed to put money in it every time you fuck, I guess, and that your friends give it to you, and they started out with some money in it, and then I don't know, like maybe you use it to buy something cool at the end. Anyway, I just thought you might think that the nookie jar was something.
I do think that's cool. I do think that's cool. Yeah.
I love any sort of fun money saving tricks.
Yeah, fucking for funds everyone.
Yeah, I wonder, yeah, what motivates what? Yeah?
And then maybe you like look in it at the end of the year, you're like, we should have more money in here.
Let's get going. You know who knows.
And obviously we also are so thrilled with everybody's response to our tour announcement. I'm so excited that so many of you have already bought tickets for Tempe and Denver and Portland and Seattle and all of our California cities.
Please keep buying them.
Everyone that's telling us to come to their city, we definitely want to come to your city. We have to like do well at these cities so that we can move on to other cities. So if you know people that live in these cities, please tell them to come and check us out.
Business is hard, like stringing together venues after COVID.
It's just like it's kind of a bonker. Everything is bonkers every Yeah. It's also like it is a full bottleneck of like nobody's performed in two years, and now everybody's going out on the road, like podcasts, comedians, fucking magicians, you know what I mean. Like everyone's going out on the road. So it's like we're all kind of Joe do Days. Yeah, yeah, fucking Joe Gorga, Like all these people are doing stand up or doing you know, some
kind of live performance. So we obviously want to come to you know, New York, Chicago, all these places you guys are telling us about.
We want to come so make our West Coast Tora success.
But one thing I wanted to point out was somebody that was buying tickets for the Portland show noticed that on the map of the theater or the Aladdin where we're playing in Portland, there's something in the top corner called a cry room. And we posted it on our Instagram because we were like, oh, this is like funny, like a cry room. And then we started getting all these messages from people that are like, my church has that, my church has that, like Mormon's Catholics. All different people
wrote us and said, our church has these crimerooms. I've never heard of this. I don't know Jews in synagogue, we did not have a cry room to take a kid that's acting up. And some of them said that even in the cry room, they'll be like a veed of the ceremony of the Mass, so that the parents can still like participate in church even when their kid is acting God forbid a little bit. Yeah, wouldn't want to miss a hymn. So I just thought that was wild, that that's a thing that exists.
I've never heard of it.
Obviously, we're two Jews, and I don't think that there are cry rooms in a synagogue. So no, no, just coatrooms for all the bar metzvahs. I guess you could throw your kid into one of those.
I might have an adult bought mitzvah.
Oh my god, that's a great throwing it out there, that's a great fucking idea. But we have to dress like we would have dressed when we were thirteen, going your ah mitzvah, like I want to wear like a fucking off the shoulder dress that like poofs out, like the shit I used to wear to bar mitzvahs. It was so high pressure when I was in middle school and going to bom Mitzva's and bar mitzvahs if you wore the same dress. I remember I wore the same dress to one and somebody was like, didn't you wear
that to Daniels? And I was like yeah, like and then I was like, mom, I gotta I gotta get new dresses, Like I can't wear the same dress twice because you would get like ridicule.
Yeah, peer pressure is so annoying.
Yeah, because Penn fifteen covered it so well with the gift in the necklace and the bot Mitzvah, they really are able to take these like emotions from junior high and make them so cringey and good to watch.
They like get into our hearts.
I haven't watched the last eight episodes that just came out a few months ago because I'm truly like too sad that it will be over.
Well.
Hopefully this won't give you too much away, but one episode maya realize it is that she's like, wait, are I poor, and suddenly she starts realizing that she might be poor and like can't afford to get these gifts. But the girl doesn't even care. But I wish in that moment you had the knowledge to be like, yeah, I did, yeah, and you know, like it's there's all these little comebacks where if I wish you could go back in the time and.
Well, of course, like I wish I could have been like, yeah, I wore it once three weeks ago. Who cares, Like I wish, you know, but like obviously you're you melt into a puddle of embarrassment because you need your mom to take you to Macy's to get another fucking floral dress. Oh man, I would love for you to have an adult bot mitzvah. That would be so fucking fun. Yeah, I think I'm gonna do it when you get dancers like you know how Camille Grammar used to be like
one of the MTV dancers. I would go to bot mitzvahs that had the MTV dancers like on the dance floor to rile people up like hype men crazy.
I knew a hype man. Oh, I mean, Rene Gotier was famously a barmetzva hype person.
Rene Gote famously has one of the best bodies I've ever seen in my life.
Is that harassment? Oh I've actually listening.
Nay, nay, Okay, I think that was all I had on my list to talk about. But yeah, guys, go to that s messed up live dot com and get tickets for the tour. We're gonna, obviously just keep pushing it for the next few weeks. So sorry, I get used to it. Is there anything else, Lisa that you wanted to touch on?
No, I'm hanging on by a thread, counting every second till I can lay down again.
Okay, but we have an awesome episode for you guys, so to stick right around. This episode is Bedtime season eleven, episode eighteen. If you've already done your homework, you know this is a Neil Bear classiek from twenty ten, so let's dive into it. We open on a guy on the phone going can't wait to see you too, in
the guiltiest way possible. And this man then throws clothes at his girlfriend who's standing there in her bra and he's like, my wife, she's two minutes away, and it's like, dude, you need to like take ten deep breasts because you're already busted just from the way you were just talking on the phone to your wife and.
Yesid, Like what do you say that you were doing? Yeah, yeah, sorry, I'm working out and I.
Just I can't wait to see you, Like it is so weird. And the side chick is, like, you said she was at work, and he goes bitch like her, she probably got fired, and it's like, okay, bro, but you're like fully cheating on your wife in your own home in the middle of the day, So who's the real bitch here? And so he tells his side chick to like go out the window down the fire escape
and it's snowing. She's wearing like ugs, sweatpants and some big coat sweater and a bra, so her shirt is definitely still in the apartment and that's just a detail I noticed. And her name is Angie, and Angie's like, why can't.
We just use this as an opportunity to come clean about us, Like this would be great.
Let's just let her come home and find me in my bra and we'll just talk it like it's hilarious. And then this man is I mean, obviously a huge coward, and it's like not no, just go go go. Shoes are away down the firescape and then we hear Angie
go she's dead and love her. Boy's like okay, well, don't make threats about death, and he's like, no her, and then the camera cuts to Angie's POV and we see a woman face down on a mattress, hands tied behind her back, lying in a pool of blood with an X carved into her cheek.
Gruesome, gruesome. Yeah, I don't like scarface things.
I think that's yeah, I've been learning in the past few episodes and yellow.
Yeah, I don't.
I don't need to see a crime blood face. Yeah, but thank you jes.
You for the regular just like you know, choked out purple face that they show people.
You know.
Yeah.
Well I also hated when they had the little baby under a like the more sheet and I was like, I don't like the even the hint of a little.
Baby on the slab that.
Yeah.
I didn't love that either. Yeah, not great. I didn't love the injection into the thumb. There are just some moments that her too much.
Yeah.
Yeah, So we cut to Stabler. He's at the crime scene. The woman that's lying face down on the bed. Is named Jane Whitmore. She's thirty years old. There's no sign of force entry, so Live is like, she probably knew the guy. Olivia looks gorgeous here, like just the first shot of her, I'm like, wow, she looks so beautiful, shoulder length hair, natural, subtle highlight.
I'm loving it.
And our girl Melinda Warner's there and she tells them that the guy probably carved the ex post mortem. There's no fibers, no fluids, and the purp left nothing behind, so it's like a little bit slow going. Immediately, Stabler obviously loves to go through people's papers and effects, and he's like.
Verry, Missy Maloney's a misty.
Yeah, check the trash, check the trash.
Always check the trash.
And he guesses immediately that she I wonder sorry to interrupt you, but I do wonder when my Yellow Jacket's fever will calm down. I like, well, I think we'll be able to track it on this podcast. I think that probably our viewers will be like, hey, Lisa didn't mention yellowjackets this week, and we'll be like, ah, the
fever has cool. So Stabler's going through her papers, and he guesses that she's an investigative journalist, and because he sees that she was recently paid from Under Scrutiny magazine, which I just think is a hilarious name for a magazine, and her laptop is missing, so maybe the purp wanted to kill her story too, Stabler wonders and then credits. So now we're at under Scrutiny mag and Jane's editor is bummed to hear about her death and says that
she was the best freelancer she ever had. She loved dangerous assignments, she loved going undercover. She infiltrated a sex trafficking ring, she dated a heroin dealer and almost got hooked on it because she had to shoot up for the story.
And she said that the last story she.
Was working on was like a Bernie Madoff type guy, and Jane was going to take him down. This guy like ripped off all these people and then ended up getting eight months in jail and then kind of basically skated, So not the same.
As Bernie made Off, who you know, died in custody.
But they go visit this man and he is now a running a pet funeral parlor. So he's moved away from his like financial crimes and is a pet funeral parlor director, which makes.
Them so mad. And I don't get why they're really like this. Well imagine I don't know.
It's like, imagine Bernie made off if he was like, hey, check out my Etsy store or something like that, Like he ripped off so many people. He ruined so many people's lives. If he got off and was just like, here's my new business. I think everybody just hates him.
Yeah, as long as it's him, because it's like, okay, well you want him on the street, like he's gonna get another job, right, And I don't maybe it doesn't matter what business he had they would hate. But they just this pet cemeteries drove them and they.
Yeah, yeah Stablers, like what do you just sell people a bunch of fake ashes and an overpriced earn like Stabler's assassin it up big time.
But when they bring.
Up Jane to this guy, he's like, that bitch threw herself at me and when she found out I had gone legit, she dumped me. So I guess maybe this man has turned over a new leaf. But he said the last time he talked to Jane. She wanted the name of the sober living house that he had gone to after prison, and he tells the cops that it's called Harmony Home and that it's a pit. The women turn tricks, the men use it as a crack then, quote unquote, and so now they're like, okay, let's go
sniff around at Harmony Home. So they're there and the guy running it is like a journalist. I thought she was a basehead. And it's pretty funny that, like, obviously, do you think you'd be able to spot a journalist?
And then.
Maloney's like, well, I thought this place was supposed to help people. Looks like we both got duped. So they're assassing this man a little bit, and it's pretty funny. He says Jane lived at that house for like ten days, and then that she had a little cupboard. He's like, she had a cupboard full of food, but I never saw her eat. So they break into her little cupboard and she has some nice ass groceries, organic imported pasta.
You know, Benson knows the brand, and she goes this girl, it gets better groceries than me, and it's like better than you, Benson.
When is she even home. There's no way she even has groceries.
When is Benson.
I know, I know Benson. It's like you you eat takeout? Come on, She's getting an egg and cheese every morning? I mean, yeah, but she did.
I think she's going to the bodega before work. I do, yeah, for like a banana. Okay.
So then a girl with really gross hair and skin and teeth walks in and is like.
A scooped bagel.
Yeah. And this girl is like, hey, that stuff don't belong to you. And then Stabler flashes her badge and she's like, yeah, I've seen fake badges before. Like she's really sassing them hard. I keep saying sassing, but she's yeah, she's very tweaky, and you know, we can tell why
she's in this house. And she says, Jane shares her food with me and tells them that her name is Francine and they're like, well, guess what, honey, foods all yours now, and she's like twitterly telling them like she's like I took Jane under my wing, like she said she was like us, but I could tell she was green, And I told her who to talk to.
I told her how to protect her shit like whatever.
So she says, Jane didn't talk to anyone except maybe the grabby jerk in welfare. You want your benefits, you gotta let that guy's stick his tongue down your throat, which is so nasty. And then the last time she saw Jane, she was on her way to talk to that dude. So now we're at the precinct and we're getting the rundown on this dude. Ned Bogden played by William Atherton, who is a character actor with like eighty nine credits. This is his only SVU. Weirdly, but he's
been in original recipe. This dude's been on murder, she wrote, like he's been in all kinds of shit anyway. Ned Bogden is fifty four single. Uh, Liz's lucky number fifty four. He's single and lives in Queen's with his mother. Not lucky and live is like that's suspicious right there, and I just like love her judging this man so hard for still living.
Well, things were different back then, and like now living with your parents is kind of whatever because of the pandemic and crash and you know, just yeah, the environment, I don't know, but back in the day, you couldn't live with your parents.
Yeah, and at fifty four, that's that's real late in the game.
Unless they're living with you.
Yeah, they're living with you, you're caring for them. Yeah. So this guy, they look him up and he's just got like no complaints in a thirty year career, which Benson is immediately like, what, like nobody has no complaints, you know. She's like, I've got complaints. And there's just tons of accolades in his file, like he's won like you know, awards from the mayor and shit, and so
it's weird. And Craigan's like, I don't know, guys, are we gonna like put this all on the word of a junkie, Like if we take a swing and a miss at this guy, it's gonna fuck us and lives like so confident she goes so we won't miss boom. Then we cut to the Welfare benefits bureau, where we're up close on Benson's Converse high high tops, and then we pan up we see some jeans. She's in a tank top and a hoodie and we know immediately know, Okay, Benson is acting.
Now, she's doing her.
Undercover I think this is also her best undercover work of this This is the most convincing.
You know, it wasn't like Daddy like, yeah, yeah, it's good.
It is convincing, But to me, her teeth give it away immediately.
She has perfect teeth, and.
I'm just like, I don't know, are you a druggy? Like I mean, she's basically saying her boyfriend was a druggie and then like he kicked her out of the house and that like she has no money to buy food. She's fucked, and like, you know, the guy should have just clocked that this was a cop because.
She has perfect teeth. But anyway, he's like, good thing you have.
But with someone that hot, and he's a molestor, like he I think you're hair, but you everything goes at the window. You're just like, oh I get to molest Benson, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think a man that's horny is about to notice the little things. But at the same time, predators also son know who to groom and stuff, So you know, I don't know, but yes she is. She's giving us some good acting, so I'll let it slide. But he's like, good thing.
You found me. I'm your night in shining Armor. I'm gonna help you, no problems. So he gives Live a form to fill out, and then he immediately goes to his door and starts to shut the blind So if this man had Matt Lower's money, he would have had that automatic door lock thing, but instead he has to go and manually shut his blinds.
Live is acting overwhelmed by the paperwork. She's like, I don't know, what does this mean? Less employer?
I don't know, And so he's like leaning over her and he's just like, do everything I say, and I guarantee you're going to get your check. And he's like really grossly holding her shoulder, saying that's a good girl. It's really nasty, Like they did do good casting here because this guy seems like his breath would smell and
like it's bad. And she's like, oh, my last job, and she starts writing special Victims Unit, and then right as she says unit, this guy like honks her boob, and so she she jumps up, grabs them like swim, swings them around and has them over the desk in like two seconds. And she's like, oh, did I forgot to mention that and she's like cuffing him, and he goes, you're a cop, and Live goes and you're a creep and like then you know that's the end of act
one and I was dying for that. So now they're in interrogation with Ned bogged in and they're grilling him and he's like, I help these women.
I'm their savior.
Of course they're going to come on to me, and I've turned down every advance and Lives like, okay, so how about you pawing my tits And he's like, I can't help it if you moved the wrong way. But he's got like he's got like a look in his eye like he's definitely guilty. And they're like, you tried to do this to Jane. You found the wire. She was going to expose you, so you killed her. And he's like, wow, what a story. Like he's pretty confident
that he can talk his way out of this. And then Cragan and Huang are watching through the window and Craigan has this light bulb moment where he's like, do you recognize this m o like of carving the X into the cheek? I don't know why, it's just coming up to him. Now they've had this dead body for a day or so, but he's like, yeah, like this
is a case I remember from thirty years ago. So as they're walking through Bogden go through everything that they think he did, we see Cragan looking over all of these cases with crime scene photos of female victims that look exactly like Jane how she was found tied up hands behind the back on a bed x cut into the cheek. And these victims are all from the seventies and this guy was called the bedtime Butcher. He killed five women, attack them all in bed between nine pm
and midnight, carve them up. And Cragan's buddy worked on the case but never found the guy, and he has since died of a heart attack. So now they're like, well, we're going to figure this out if this guy is the bedtime Butcher. So they go through all the old files and Live is like this guy killed from nineteen seventy three to nineteen seventy six. Serial rapists don't just like stop cold Turkey and bad Wong aka Huang is like, well, some do if they find another outlet to channel their rage.
And they're like like, oh, he got hired at this Welfare Bureau in seventy six, so he didn't need to rape and kill anymore because he could just take advantage of all these vulnerable women at his work and never get in trouble.
And with like murders signatures, I wonder, do they like fantasize and get horny for this specific thing? Does it come out natural? Like how do patterns even occur?
Yeah?
Yeah, And it's like the ex is like you or definitely want people to know that you're doing all of these you know. Like so anyway, there's no DNA for any of these five victims because there wasn't DNA in the seventies. So Huang's like, you gotta find this guy ned Bongdon's connection to all these victims and they all must have set him off in some way to like get his rage going. So they go through all the victims, and this guy did have a connection to all of them.
One was a rich lady he had worked a catered party for and she'd been like, you know, bossy to him. One was a rich parent at a school that he's subdad who tried to like get her daughter in Harvard through you know, like elbow rubbing or whatever. One got a postdoc that he applied for, and another was a woman that would beat him at running in a road running club that they were in.
So they're naming all these victims on a bit.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like just a man that feels inadequate that has to kill any woman that he thinks feels more powerful than him. So he says, okay, well, your whole case falls apart if one chain link in the chain falls apart. And I don't know this. Emily Cutler, one of your victims that you brought up. I happened to know that when she died, when you told me she died, I was at a men's retreat in Cheyenne, and I
can prove it. And then in walks Melinda Warner with a great entrance, and she goes, can you prove you didn't leave Dandriff all over Jane Whitmore's body Boom goes the dynamite, and Olivia is like, he's got his jacket sitting right there, probably covered in Dandriff, And Olivia's like, we got you, motherfucker, and they take his jacket away and he's like, well, I had sex with her, but I didn't kill her. I didn't kill any of those bitches. I was in Cheyenne.
It's just pretty funny.
So and if you don't know, if you I haven't watched this episode and you're just watching along with us, this is like one of the wildest fully two different crimes in one it's two full episodes almost in one episode. So at the lab, Melinda confirms that the dandriff DNA matches and it's all over the other victim's clothing as well, and he's had this problem of shedding and dandriff for a while. So the case is closed except for Emily Cutler.
Warner thinks he was really maybe in Cheyenne because he had no dandriff on her and that when she went through or when she investigated all the evidence and stuff from the Emily Cutler murder, she said that Emily was a redhead and she found one blonde hair on her nightgown, so the hair was degraded, so there was no DNA, but done done. It's a woman, So holy shit, Now
we're looking for a woman who murdered a copycat. A copycat, so somebody who killed Emily Cutler and made it look exactly like the bedtime butcher so boom boom boom, ned Bogden is the Bedtime Butcher case clothes. He's going down for all these murders, but the Emily Cutler case is still open. And obviously this copycat, you know, use the Bedtime Butcher to cover her tracks. And Olivia's like, I
never would have thought it was a woman. And Stabler's like, try missing an anniversary, and it's like, Elliott, Kathy's just stay at home mom with your forty seven children. Take her out for your anniversary and don't forget you dumb ass.
I know, I like how the women are too out of control and angry for something like that, but you're not the asshole for missing this big thing.
Yeah, write it on a calendar and it's the same time every year. Don't be a dumbassy.
So Emily Cutler's husband was a man named Cal Cutler, but was more commonly known as the Mattress Maestro. And they pop in a VHS of an old seventies commercial of this mattress salesman who's like dressed as a cowboy. He's got a cowgirl like like flibbertygibbet girl with him. She's slapping his ass I'm sorry. He's slapping her ass and she loves it. And it's very seventies and apparently
he was like a local celeb in the seventies. Stabler remembers the commercials being on all the time, and to me, if I'm gonna put this into my own world, this is like the Grand.
Prospect Hall in Brooklyn.
Do you remember that commercial, Lisa, Yes, so, yeah, that's like to me, I think if the Grand Prospect Hall people came up in a murder, I'd be.
Like, I know these people, you know? I thought of like eagleman, I don't know that. Is that a Chicago thing? Look at those Loo low rates.
Yeah, it was like this stuffed like puppet bird and this eagle would come out and it was really Yeah, local commercials are the best.
Yeah, they're so funny.
So they discovered that the year leading up t Emily Culer's murder, the couple Emily and cal Culor had a dozen or so domestic disputes. Cal was a big cheater, and it's funny how thematically the episode opened with a guy cheating too. I don't know if the writers did that on purpose, but.
Never noticed that. Yeah, anyway, they like let's go talk to Cal. They can't. Cal is dead. He died in a drunk driving accident and burned to death out.
Burning is one of the scariest. Yeah, that's a bad way.
It's not good. No, burning is tough.
Yeah, So they decide to track down the cop who responded to all these domestic disturbances, and her name is Susan Delzio. So they go knock, knock, knock it on Susan Delzio's door, and who answers but icon of the seventies, eighties and beyond, Jacqueline Smith, one of the Charlie's Angels. You definitely have seen her face before. She clocks them as cops right away. She goes, oh, cops, and they're like, can we talk to you for a second. We want to ask you about the like some of your cases.
And so she calls back into apartment and goes, Pedro, I'm stepping out for a second. We don't see Pedro, but he's a painter. Because she's telling Benson is Stabler that she took up sculpture after she retired from the police force, and that she's converting one of her bedrooms into a studio Benson's like, good to know there's life after the job.
And it's like sculpture, Okay, I hope you have there's more than that for you. Well, no, it's it's big now, you know.
Seth Rogan is ceramics, ceramics and sculpting vases.
It's in. It's in.
Yeah, I think the pandemic people wheeling and dealing with clay.
Yeah. And if you're old enough to buy your own I mean, if you're rich enough to buy your own kiln, I guess that's good for you.
Yeah. His life just seems the best.
Him and his wife just like get high, chill out, make vases, pet their dog.
Right now, it's like the dream life. I'm obsessed.
One day I will recognize them and only talk to Lauren and pretend I don't know who's Seth Rogan.
That's a great idea. Now I'm obsessed with everyone.
So they're like, do you recall this guy cal cut Cutler, And she's like, ugh, the mattress, maestro, how could I forget? It was the first celeb I ever met. I was
right out of the academy. His wife called us pretty much every weekend, which is about as often as color changed girlfriends, and she said that women would show up at their house like breaking flower pots, like you know, putting a bombs in the mailbox, like all kinds of random stuff and saying that Emily didn't deserve Cal, and he would just basically.
Can you imagine that, like the hottest, coolest celebri in here is a mattress salesman.
I think also, this guy just seemed like he was like a horn dog, and women were really drawn to him for some reason because it's like the mattress shit's not doing appealing or equal like none nothing.
Yeah.
Yeah, but when you look at him in the commercial, you can kind of see you in the seventies.
He'd be like a hot guy.
I guess that like babes would be like, oh, I bet he's got mattress money, and there's probably a lot of like come test out my mattress pickup lines or whatever.
So anyway, so.
She says that Cal would say, like just get the women out of here, and would never press charges against them because he knew that they were all of his, you know, side pieces. He wasn't probably trying to get them arrested. Susan's like, I don't have any names. I ditched my memo books a long time ago. But she said every week it was a new one, always blonde, always builts, which I think she just means big tits. And the last call that she got wasn't to the house.
It was to his studio where he was shooting a commercial and one of the blondes got through security and had slapped Emily Cutler. She said, oh, there was also an older woman there too, really bossy. It was cal Cutler's agent and her name was maud Monahan, an amazing name. We know Neil Beer probably came up with that name. And so now we're at the office of Maud Monahan. We've got black and white headshots as far as the
eye can see. And this woman, yes, she's played by Renee Taylor, who is a comedian slash actress, slash writer who I guess was in The Nanny, which I'm sure you looking. I'm like, you're why is The Nanny not written? Yeah, because I can.
Remember some of those stuff. So I knew she was in The.
Nanny, and I knew that you that was gonna be your way into her. I don't didn't watch The Nanny, but she holds up. Oh, I would love to. And I know it just came out.
Of HBO Max and that holds up. It is a joke a second, Like and the butler and like, uh, the woman that works for mister Sheffield are so mean to each other. The banter amazing. There's so many horny jokes. The kids are funny, like it's so good, and her outfits alone and the jew elements and and Renee Taylor is a big part of the funny.
Yeah.
So she's like this classic actress of you know, the last decades. But she's also been nominated for an Academy Award for writing like she's she used to write things with her husband, her late husband, Wait hold on.
It says she's a voice in Bob's Burger's. And I wonder if she plays the sister. I wonder if she's Linda Linda Belcher, not Linda, the Linda's sister.
What's her Linda's sister? I think is Megan Malali? Yeah, okay, you're right here, yeah yeah. But but Renee Taylor is also in a movie that I'm obsessed with from my youth called Delirious with John Candy, and he plays like a writer who basically writes himself into his own like soap opera, and it's like, and she is in that movie. So I wanted to point that out in case anyone else is a delirious fan out there never even heard of it. Oh it's right, John Candy. I mean, I
think I've seen all his movies. I love him so much. But maud Monahan happens to remember the exact three blondes who are especially batshit about cal Cutler, and she points out their headshots because they're all up on her wall. She's like, this is Jenny Coswald, Claire Lockton, and Rita Wills. And Rita Wills looks like she's topless in her headshot, and I respect that. So then the cops track down the women and were kind of cutting between all these women.
So Jenny Coswald is played by Susan Anton, who was on Baywatch and is like another sort of like icon from the seventies and eighties, and she's at her daughter's birthday party and she's like, yeah, I was a young dumb ass. He said he'd leave his wife for me, got me into bed, then he dumped me. Then they go to Claire Lockton, played by Morgan Fairchild, another icon and is now a high She's now a high powered lawyer and is like, please keep this hush hush. I
don't want my firm to find out. But she admits I hated Emily Cutler. She made cal write a letter to me breaking it off with me. And then finally they go talk to Rita Wills, the one who slapped Emily in the face at the TV studio, and it's Anne fucking Margaret, Bye Bye, Bertie a million other things. She's huge and she goes, wow, the bitch was keeping
us apart. She plays this part amazingly. It's really fun to watch and like the rest of them, like the other two women are like, god, I was dumb, Like yeah, I didn't like the woman, but like my life has moved on for sure, and Rita Wills is like, yeah, that was the love.
Of my life. Like and it is just so sultry and funny.
Really cut back to Morgan Fairchild explaining that she's like, yeah, when Emily died, that was a wake up call for me. I stopped acting. I went to law school. Susan Anton is like, we were all so dumb. I treated his wife badly and then Anne Margaret goes, I regret nothing. Those commercials were my big break. It's just a really classic like top ten I think SVU guest Stars of
all time. Stabler asks them all for DNA, and we see Jenny go of course and say don't mind at all, and then we see Rita flirting with Stabler goes, oh, and for you, I'll even say uh and like opens her mouth like so sexually Distabler and it's really it's
like yikes, but it's so funny. So now back at the precinct, they're reviewing the women with Huang and Susan and she's like, well, Jenny's the one that spit at me and Rita slapped me one time, and all of these women have like clear records, like none of them even has a parking ticket, and Stabler goes, well, Rita is cuckoo for Coco Pops, which is you know, overused at this point, but in twenty ten, maybe that was a newer joke.
But also Stabler's not hip, so even if it wasn't trending or it was hackey, he is like.
You're right, he would say that next week go o see. He would stay it next week, goan O. See you're right.
So then Melinda killing it with all of her mattresses comes in and they're like another walk on, perfect walk on, and she goes, we found blood other than Emily's on the mattress and it is done, done Rita's So now we don't see the other two women again. Now we're focusing on Rita. At Rita's place, she comes to the door holding a huge Martini glass and she looks absolutely
hammered and I'm truly just loving everything about her. She thinks she thinks stables there to fuck basically, and then when Olivia shows up, she's like, oh, a threesome.
I can get down with that. It's really funny.
They accuse her of killing Emily and she's like, okay, that's a funny story and tries to walk back into her apartment and when they arrest her, like when they go to grab her, she smashes her martini glass against the door and starts screaming, her hair is disheveled. This is a really great arrest. And then suddenly she totally flips in his very docile and is.
Like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's really funny.
So now, I mean, can you even believe the ned Bogden part like of this episode, Like we're in just a totally another world here. It's just this episode takes such a left turn to a totally different case and I love it. So in interrogation, Rita's going, I'm a little drunk, I'm sorry, and then she pulls out a flask and starts adding booze to her coffee cup, and
I just love how much she parties. And they tell her that they found her blood on call and Emily's mattress, and she's like, oh, you found my blood on the mattress.
Well, I can explain that.
And then she's like Cal hated Emily and she knew all about all these other women, but she would never leave Cal. And she describes how she and Cal had like this, you know, epic sex on their bed, and that Cal wanted Emily to walk in on them and find them, but her friend came early and stable her dumbass is like your friend, and live goes she got her period, and so it's just very funny to me.
This stabler doesn't get that.
Rita goes, yeap b bled everywhere and it just must have soaked through the mattress. I was so embarrassed, but Cal told me to get rid of the sheets, and guess what, I saved them go to my apartment and you can find them right there. So they get to her apartment and I don't know if this is surprising or not, but it is a Cal Cutler shrine, and there's like full cutouts of him everywhere.
His commercial is playing on the TV like on a loop.
She's got scrap books of like articles about him and like letters. And then Stabler finds the period sheets, like fully folded up, tied with a ribbon and just period stain up and it's really funny to see like a picture of Stabler holding period sheets. I will screenshot it and put it on the.
Goes I found the sheets.
Yeah, And then Olivia starts thumbing through her diaries, Rita's diaries, and she finds this last entry in one that says I killed for you, Cal, and now you should burn in hell or something like that. And then two weeks later Cal burns to death in a car accident. So a lot of things are coming together here for Stabler and Benson. So Stabler, back in interrogation, like throws the diary onto the table and Rita wakes up because she's face down on the table and she says, that confession
isn't what you think. I wasn't confessing to killing Emily. I was confessing to killing my baby. So basically, she found out that she was pregnant two weeks after Emily died.
Cal didn't want the baby.
He said it was too soon after Emily was gone and that people would talk.
He told her to get rid of it.
So she did get an abortion even though she didn't want to, and got an infection in her uterus that left her unable to have kids because Cal had wanted her said just get an abortion and we'll have kids later. That's what he had promised her, and then the abortion he made her get left her.
Honey, I wonder was fucking these girls? Like, I know, I don't get it.
I guess he was getting a lot of practice because he was doing it a lot. And Cal said it was God's plan about what happened to her uterus and then dumped her. So, you know, so then they're like, so you killed him and she's like, yeah, I did, and they're like oh okay. They're like, oh, we're getting our confession now, and then she's like, I made cal
meet me one more time. We met at a bar and we got drunk and we started fighting and we got kicked out, and then they fought and he drove off, and they're like, well, didn't you say you killed him. She's like, I did kill him. If he was so drunk, I should have taken his keys. So she thinks she's responsible for his death, not that she necessarily.
You know, she gives so many twists and turns. Yeah, she gives us so many you know, the diary entry, the there's just they're fucking with us and it works, and she's the perfect person for this party.
I don't know, she's great because you're.
Like, this bitch is guilty. Okay, blood sheets, you're guilty. Oh no, a diary entry you're ilty?
No?
Yeah, yeah, another admission? Not again, not guilty? What the fuck an Margaret?
No, because this fucking episode has so many twists.
There's still like three twists left. Okay.
So they've exhumed cal Cutler's body and Warner has gone over it, and her findings are the same as the original autopsy, but twist, the body they exhumed is not Cal Cutler. Melinda's like, this guy's five to eight, Cal was six to two, Like, we're not, you know, fucking with six inches here of discrepancy. So the guy that she IDs from prison dental records is named James Rogers, age forty four, so Cutler, it looks like faked his
own death. And Melinda goes, here's a lead. Why don't you start with the officer who released Rogers from custody earlier that day.
Then Ellie and.
Olivia both look at the piece.
Of paper and their look is shocked.
Then the next scene, Susan Delzio is back at the precincts and Olivia is like, so why did you kill Emily? And Susan's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Because the scene starts out very like Joky. She goes, why you guys are calling me in so much? What do you want me to rejoin the force? And then she's like, haha, so why did you kill Emily? And then Susan's like what are you talking about? And liv is like, you told us all about meeting Cal, how
you were so starstruck by him. It must have been so exciting, like falling into bed with this local celeb, which again Lisa and I don't understand how that would be that exciting, but alas, that's what every been thinks here. And then they show a photo of Jaqueline Smith as a blonde rookie cop and she just absolutely looks like a supermodel wearing a police hat, Like this photo is wild, Like she just like you just have never seen a cop that looks like that.
There's no way she would survive the police force without getting sexually harassed day in and day out for decades. There's like no way she was not groped. And it was the seventies and no one cared, Yeah.
For sure.
So she's like, you know, and but it also shows that she was blonde back of the day, because Susan Donno now has like a brownish auburn kind of thing going on. So lives like you were smarter than those bimbos. You know, you convinced Cal that he was a top suspect and then so you helped him fake his own death. And they're like, what are you talking about. Cal's dead, is what Susan's saying. And they're like, Cal isn't dead. James Rogers is okay. Then why am I here? And
where is Cal? You dumb bitch? One of the best moments. I love someone just calling Olivia a dumb bitch. And if you listen to our podcast, you know we love saying that. So where is Cal? Because they keep running the story on with her and and she's like, okay, but then where's Cal? Like everything you're saying rests on where Cal is? And then Stabler enters and goes, he's
in your apartment where you wouldn't let us in. Remember Pedro, Guys, we're about to meet Pedro, And it's Cal Cutler who walks in and he's been living in Susan Delzio's apartment for thirty five years. He walks in, his face is like melted. Okay, And it turns out that in the original death faking, the car didn't light up the way he plans, so he went down to set it on fire, got drenched in gas, and then like got caught on fire during the explosion. So Susan breaks down and is
like he was gonna leave her. I went to get his things and Emily wasn't supposed to be there. I flew into a rage and it just happened and Cal forgave her and they're in love and they just wanted to be together forever, and one of them goes, well, forever just ended, and she's like touching Cal's melted face and like no, no, and then Benson arrests Susan and takes her away while she's screaming I love you Cal, over and over again.
And that is dick wolf, Baby.
That's true love. Because he looked like he should be in the Twilight Zone.
Yeah, I mean, I guess you're just like, wow, I got the guy, like I got the hot guy that all these babes wanted. I'm gonna keep him in my house. I'm gonna keep him alive.
We're never gonna leave. But it's like, yeah, he must never leave. Oh so crazy.
No, And he probably couldn't handle it since like for so long everyone wanted to fuck him and he was a celebrity and now he would be like a melted monster and people would be yeah, like not just casual, but like, I don't think he can handle it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wow.
That's an incredible episode, Girl Power. Thank you so much. Now, have you know some messages from our sponsors. We'll be back, baby, Okay, So this is based on the Bedroom Basher and you know, the Bedtime Butcher, so very very close in terms, and there's a lot of overlapping with the episode as you will see. So the Bedroom Basher was responsible for, in quotes, a string of sex slings that terrorized Orange County in the nineteen seventies.
Oh my gosh, oh see wow. Yeah, it was in California.
Gerald Gerard Gerald, Parker Gerald, and he was an ex marine and he is now in prison in San Quentin, which is the place to be if you're a killer, Like, if you want to be put in a jail.
San Quentin is where you want to be. Oh who's who?
I guess Yeah, if you're into other psychos, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I think it's.
A terrible place to be. But you're you know, it's nice. You're not in Oklahoma. I don't know, maybe it's better to be in Oklahoma. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just a starfucking horror and Sam Quinton is famous.
So anyways, is that where Scott Peterson is Yeah? Oh okay, yeah, when The Redhead was Well, that's why you like it, because we all know you love Scott Peterson.
I bet we lost tens of thousands of listeners because of that episode.
People are going to turn their backs on me, I know it.
But a jury took over just two hours to find Gerald Parker guilty of six counts of first degree murder, including the death of a fetus.
The wild Twist is the wrong Man.
The husband of one of the victims served more than sixteen years in prison for the attack. Oh so five of the victims. They were aged between seventeen and thirty one years old. In the bedroom bachelor assaults in nineteen seventy eight and nineteen seventy nine. We have Deborah Lynn Senior. She was seventeen years old and was murdered in her Coast to Mesa apartment.
Sandra K.
Frye was seventeen and from Anaheim, Kimberly Gay Rollins twenty one, from Coast to Mesa and also from Coast to Mesa, Marilyn K. Carlton who is thirty one, and then Deborah Kennedy twenty four of Tustin. There's also another DNA match of a rape of a twenty four year old Optometris, but there was a three year statute of limitations, so the case expired, but like what three years?
Three years? So fucked up.
Also, I love that they're like, you know, twenty four old optometrists, like this is the bachelor, like her.
Name, like, it's just she's a vet tech.
Yeah, it was just weird to read, but you know, eye doctors are important. And then the sixth woman was Diana Deyello. There is an apostrophe in her name, so God knows how to say it. Okay, but I got it great, thank you who? And she was nine months pre survived the attack, but the baby was stillborn. But her husband is the one that was found guilty of the crime. So it's just strange because she wasn't dead, so like if someone was dead and then they for
you know, got the wrong guy convicted. That makes sense. There's not a witness. So I was very confused, and I kept rereading and rereading to make sure I wasn't fucking it up. That the woman who lived husband served sixteen years of a life sentence for this crime he didn't commit. So I will get into how all of that came about.
Of course I have a lot of questions.
Yay, no, so did I And I kept thinking that I just wasn't reading something right, and it was really hard. But also for such an interesting crime this is in story, I'm shocked there wasn't more information, Like the New York Times didn't even mention anything. And you know, I have a subscription, but I've learned to things you don't have a subscription for. You just copy the the your URL is that what it's called the address, the world Wide Web address, and you open an incognito window and if
you put it incognito, you can read the article. Yeah, And when someone was telling me they did that, I'm like, just pay the ten dollars and support journalism, you motherfucker, Like we need journalists in the free press.
No, but somebody I try to do that because I'm reading like an article on like the link.
You guys.
I one time, like did subscribe to like the Nebraska Star or something that I was like never going to read, like some Omaha newspaper, just so I could read an article about one of our cases.
For this podcast.
And then I had to actually contact them and say hi, I'd like to end my subscription. Like there was no way to do it online. So it's a little bit harder, easier said than done.
Yeah, So Diana's husband, Kevin Green, was found guilty of the crime after an alleged fight. They blamed him for it, and he said another man attacked Dello. So he was released from prison in nineteen ninety six after DNA samples taken from Parker, who was convicted of rape, matched with the traces from five unsolved crimes and the Green case.
So he spent sixteen years in prison. Can you fucking imagine, NA?
So, what Deanna claimed was that her ex husband beat her and left her semi conscious in their apartment right before Parker entered through an unlocked kitchen door and struck and raped her. She said he was mad and attacked her and they were fighting after she refused to have sex, which would be fucked to force her nine month pregnant wife to fuck.
Yeah, but also that's like a full thing that would happen on SVU, Like, you beat your wife and leave her unconscious and then somebody walks right in the door and commits a crime. Yeah, you committed a crime. That is a crime, But like that's wild.
So she says that the culpability of Gerald Parker does not excuse Kevin Lee Green she said, she feels that she has been raped and beaten by two men, by a stranger and by a man who I loved and trusted.
Is what she said in court.
Wow.
In October of nineteen ninety nine, the governor signed a bill awarding Kevin Green six hundred and twenty thousand dollars for compensation for the years he spent behind bars for a crime he did not do.
But again, like, what the fuck?
Like the wife was alive, so how did she keep blaming her husband if she was dead?
Like? It is tough to put this all together.
Yeah, because she was in a coma and knocked unconscious. So I'm not sure how her testimony was even admissible in court. And I'm not a lawyer. I think I am, of course, but I don't know how it was allowed if she was fucked and she suffered memory loss. But her testimony did help convict him. And I feel bad for Kevin Lee Green.
But he also beat a nine month pregnant woman unconscious.
I mean he denies it. Yeah, I have no idea what happened.
I mean, he had an out, so basically, the jury what the jury did not believe Green's alibi, He said that he went to eat a cheeseburger at the time of the attack, and that he had seen a black man loitering around the apartment complex, and the jury just didn't believe it because also blaming a random or imagined black person is pretty standard, you know, to.
Lie and blame it on somebody black.
So that like his alibi worked against That's the thing that's tough, because he was like this model inmate. And we'll get into it. But of course did he beat this nine month pregnant wife. Why, like, why was Gerald never in the picture? It's tough. I have no idea. I don't know why. I see it as so twisted. But maybe he did leave his wife unconscious on the ground.
It's fucked up. Well, I mean, I don't know why she would make up that story. I don't either, you know, I don't either.
So if he did, I mean, if he did do it, he did spend sixteen years in prisons, so that is good. But it is the death of the unwanted death of a fetus that is a murder.
I don't know.
Like I said, I'm very shocked that there's not more about this case. There was one weird episode of something that I didn't want to watch.
But yeah, and like, if he beat her, that is what could have caused the stillborn to die. They probably cannot determine whether it was that beating or the second crime that is what killed the child, yeah, or the fetus.
Yeah. Yeah.
She ended up suing him for a wrongful death suit and still holds him partially responsible for the crime. She won a multimillion dollar judgment by default because Green was in prison, but when he was freed from prison, he filed a counter suit to have the judgment thrown out and it was voided eventually.
But he has said that she.
Was a victim of the system as I was, and is it mad or blames her for anything? So does that mean he's like a good guy or he knows he fucking beat the shit out of her?
And yeah, I don't blame her. I did fuck up. I don't know. Lies.
I'd also be mad if I had to spend that much time in jail if I didn't do it.
It's tough.
But scoop from the jail was that he was a model inmate. My favorite, This is one of my favorite things I've ever found in research. He planned and coordinated the prison. Christmas parties love that he was the warden's secretary and he helped give tours to college students of the prison. And he kept remaining like, he kept saying he was innocent the whole time, and that actually hurt
him in parole hearings because he was viewed as unrepentant. So, you know, they like when you learn a lesson, they don't like if you continue to say that you're innocent.
Here's what I don't understand.
The DNA they found on her was not his DNA, you know what I mean, Like he couldn't have.
Gotten the but there was no DNA. This was the seventies. Then how did they end up matching it to Gerald in the nineties.
In the nineties Gerald, I'll get back into it. Right around the time of Dello's attack, several other women were sexually assaulted and brutally murdered by an assailant, but the cases were never linked, and then the crimes eventually ran cold. And it could have been because the testin and COASTA MESA departments weren't sharing information with each other or whatnot. I'm not really sure, but they did. They do always
keep working on unsolved murders. And then in the nineties they learned of a new technology, genetic testing, so it was short tandem repeats STR. It's a type of DNA analysis that's effective and identifying individuals. At the time, the Orange County Crime Lab was only one of three labs in the nation capable of this type of analysis.
So that's really exciting.
And maybe it's because Orange County is really rich, maybe like we do cover a lot of crimes in southern California, so maybe it's because we're a hot bed or whatnot.
But one of three.
So the testin and Coasta mesa pds submitted to from the bedroom Basher murders, and the STR method was used to match DNA of convicted individuals through a computer database called COTIS. And we've heard about COTIS on SVU and this could be a Tarru moment for us, Maybe not for me. It was CODIS stands for something, it's combined DNA index system. So we're learning, honey, and they got multiple hits.
Multiple hits.
He obviously thought he had gotten away with these murders for such a long time, which I bet is even more powerful than Big Dick energy, Like getting away with murder energy, I'm sure is big. Yeah, they also think that he's responsible for more killings, especially these three other dead women in Orange County, but they have not been able to improve that. So once they established all the links,
they took a field trip. They traveled to Avenel State Prison in central California to talk to Parker, and eventually the Orange County District Attorney did apologize to Kevin Green, but also said our justice system is not one hundred percent perfect, but it's as close to perfect as you're going to find anywhere in this world.
That can't be true.
So it's like you're either dumb or not well traveled or you think I'm like, it's just not true, and I don't and if I don't want you working in the legal system, if you think it's.
That that's close to perfect in the world, Yeah, that's really a wild statement.
I've just been thinking about juries more and more and what they cling to and what they don't and that you need money and our justice system is not perfect.
So whatever, cool apology, bro.
But obviously, like when this all happened, they were very excited and completely amazed, said Frank Fitzpatrick, the sheriff's forensic science director, and he said, not only did we get a hit in the database, but it was linked to all of these cases. And I'm sure that was like so fucking exciting. Solving a cold case seems exciting. So gir, why do I want to say Gerard so bad?
So?
Gerald Parker was in custody for sexually assaulting a thirteen year old girl in Testine in nineteen eighty and then he confessed to it all, including DELLO. The defense did not really contest much on any of the physical evidence that included fingerprints in DNA matches that made it very
clear that Parker did it. Parker's lawyers mostly focused on his state of mind at the time of the crimes and said he was wasted, so it was second degree not first degree murder because he couldn't have planned because he was like an alcohol drug addict. But I was
listening to Whitney Comings podcast again with Jenniferyman. They were talking about when it comes to murder, arguing it's really hard to charge some of the first degree murder and like it's hard to prove that somebody planned something or was gonna do it, So yeah, like if you're like a hardcore murder. Your job isn't to like free the person, it's to try to get it down, you know.
Yeah.
Like my uncle's a public was a public defender for really long time in Florida. And I'd be like, do your clients like do it? And he goes, oh, yeah, They've always done it. I'm trying to get them to not die, like I'm trying to get them not to have the death penalty.
Yeah.
And I'm like, oh, got it, got it. And I'm like, so they're never innocent.
He's like no, but do but do they lie and tell him that they are, and he just goes with it.
I don't think so.
A lot of times it's like you bust it in on your wife in bed with someone and shot her.
That's what he told me.
It was like stuff like that where it's like it's irrefutable, like that you did it, Like it's just you know.
So, But it's to me the prosecution of course, Arson I agree called bullshit and said he knew exactly what he was doing. Because if there's a pattern and you always do the same thing, there's you clear. If you've done it seven times, you know what you're doing.
Wasted or not totally.
You might be wasted to get your nerve up, but you're doing the same thing over and over.
Yeah, And he just kept saying I was just there to rob people. The killing was an accident side effect. And it's like, shut up, bro, you had a signature. The judge in the case, Francisco Pi Brazil, I know, Brazano. Let's just call him Brasino for the fish. Tom Parker is in quote and his inhumane behavior is beyond belief. And he rejected all of the defense's arguments about Parker and that his life should be spared because he was
a drug addict with a troubled background. And it's like, sorry, unfortunately that only works for white men who murdered dozens of people at once.
Honey, come on now, it's not gonna work for you.
He was convicted in nineteen ninety eight, sentenced to death in nineteen ninety nine. Like I said, he is in San Quentin on death row. And Green, Kevin Green, now lives in Missouri. And of course, you know, tragedy all the way around, lots of lives damaged, lost, lots of years and I don't know, and.
Is this fucked up?
But did you say how he murdered them. I think they could just beat the shit out of them. When you said the guy said it was an accident, I'm like, how much of an accident can it.
Be to like bash someone to death? Yeah, I don't know, Okay.
Obviously if I found it, I would have written, you know, yeah, it was hard. It was like the La Times was the only thing that really gave me more, Like I had to go on murder Pedia. I was on sheriff's websites, like I really there was not as much as I would have assumed. That's really interesting, And a lot of it was about the exoneration of Kevin Green and the letting go and like the dramatics of that versus this.
So I don't know, interesting, Well, thanks for all that research. I knew not a lick about the bedtime.
No, that's what I mean.
And it's such an intricate case and different in fault, like you know, and this whole time, I'm like, oh, thank god Kevin Green got out of prison. But then you brought up it doesn't mean that Diana was wrong, and so that adds more layers to it. And obviously s you found how to get this going, but I am shocked that it's not more like in conversation or another podcast.
Well, and obviously I wish there was a seventies mattress king who was embroiled, you know, multi woman plot that ended up with him living in seclusion for thirty five years. But this was good too, Yeah, and slowly melting all right, that was awesome And we have a you're not even gonna believe it, honestly, it's such a good I'm so excited who we're talking to?
You guys, stick.
Around, Okay, you guys, we were both like truly gagged when this person said that they would do our podcast.
Like we were like, are you sure? Like does she know what this is?
Like? We have a truly iconic actress and absolute fashion mogul. A legend in celebrity branding, She's appeared in everything from CSI to The Love Boat, and is best known as one of the og angels in Charlie's Angels. But you guys know her from today's episode as Susan Deelzio. Guys, feast your ears on our Chat with the Great Jacqueline Smith. Oh my gosh, Jacqueline Smith. We really cannot believe we're talking to you.
Yeah, what made you say yes to the podcast? We were floored. You are like our reach and we could not believe it.
Oh that's very flattering, thank you. Although you know, I'm not used to podcasts, but I think they're certainly what's happening today, and it's good for me to sort of open up and do it and eat more people and do more things.
That we obviously have a lot of prepared questions. But I see there's trophies behind you, and I am intrigued and I'd like to know what they are.
They're not mine, golf trophies, Brant. I mean, he's he's good, so really and it's his passion, so he right, that's a good answer, Brad. Yeah, but he's played all his life.
And amazing love and you you guys live in Los Angeles, right, yes, yeah, we're here too.
So you must belong to like a club where he gets to play a lot, right.
Well, he belonged to a club in Houston, where I'm from because he practiced medicine there, and now he's in the process of joining a club here. Great, it is true, this club situation.
You got to get your hours in. You can't.
Yeah, you gotta, you know, have everybody to your house and do the right things to get into these clubs.
I don't understand.
In the film business, we don't have clubs, right, just welcome everybody.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I'm from I'm from Connecticut, so I know the whole club.
About to say, how do you know about golfing, and then I go, oh, yeah.
Connecticut, Oh Connecticut, Yes, I love Connecticut. Yeah. Really, how long have you been here?
I've been in LA for six years, after eleven in New York City and then growing up in Connecticut.
I get it. New York's fun.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did you spend like a lot of time living there?
Ever? I started my career there as a ballet dancer, and then oh that's right, lived on with doing other things and would go back and forth. But now with COVID, I haven't been probably in two years. You know. I'd go because my design team for kmart sears, which I'm no longer with it, but was there, so I was constantly going and loving it. I love me.
Yeah, no, it's weird. We're we're both big fans. If we could be by coastal easily, we would both do that.
I think, yeah, it would be nice.
But you did mention the Kmart line and we were talking about how now so many celebrities and influencers have lines and makeup lines and everything, but you were really the first. And do you think you get enough credit for being kind of the first celeb clothing line.
I think where the credit comes if I think of it as credit is I did it thirty five years. Yeah, and now as it speaks for the line line and my team and thirty six years, he's going to correct me. He's the numbers man. It's the way our brains work. But when you think of thirty six years with a store, it was an education. They were great to me. I had the greatest team. I went the distance. And as much as we talk about Charlie's Kmart Sears was my career in branding and it opened up so many things
for me. So I'm grateful.
No, it's just funny that like any housewife that's been on the show for like one one season will put out a skincare line or you know, do anything, like all different kinds of stuff, and you seem like you're like the Jacqueline Smith collections, like the first celebrity to kind of get in that trailblazer.
It was at the time, you know, it was under contract to Max Factor and they did not want me to do it. They said, that's not your customer, don't and I turned it down and then they said take a meeting with us, and I did, and I saw
a line. It was a line called Hunter's Glen. It was very reminiscent of Ralph Lauren and I looked at it and I thought, wow, how can they do that for that price, you know, And it fascinated me, and I thought, I'm going to take this on because my mother had always wanted to be a designer, and I thought, this is an opportunity for me, and it's going to be going in new, new direction, new terrain, and it's going to be a challenge. And it was a challenge.
And I would say, look over one hundred million women I worm purchased my clothes, So that's you know, that's great feeling.
Do you remember any specific product that was like the big hit, like oh, we had this leopard blouse that flew off the shelves, or like this duster.
Like anything.
Like my husband's talking in that He's like I know it's a classic.
Yeah, he loves it. I think he should be on camera. Okay, yeah, okay. Any particular thing that flew.
Out, yeah, like that just was, yeah, like a signature thing or you were like, wow, this was like our biggest seller.
Well, certainly my first collection was it just because we didn't we didn't debut it in all the stores, and it just sold like gangbusters. And it was sort of very collegiate looking bleted pants and you know, cotton blouses and very uh, you know, just sort of classic clothing. And so then it was a big hit. But then later we did cashmere sweaters Bnack cardigans and they flew out because the price point was unbelievable for one hundred
percent cashmere. So there are those particular things. Our leather skirts, our pencil leather skirts, and we went into vegan leather skirts, which flu So there's been you know, I think we always did in October breast cancer month because I'm a breast cancer survivor, so we would do a collection and part of that went to breast cancer research.
That's amazing.
You seem like you really like, you know, a lot of people are really stuck in what they know and you seem like you really are open to new things and pivoting, like let's do a leather skirt to a vegan skirt to podcasts.
You know you're trying new thing.
You know it's interesting. You girls are great and you know when you don't know where to look on a podcast because I'm an you know, actress to start with the stories in the eyes and you just, you know, are looking a million places. I think podcasts are hard, and when you're a hit at it, it's really it's not the easiest thing to do.
No, it's and you know, I think when podcasts first started a lot of people were doing it together.
It's really covid that we're on zoom.
Like you used to invite someone to your studio and you would across from you to have a conversation.
Love that because I love one on one stories in the eyes. Sure, and you know you get to but you know, it's interesting. Even in film today, auditions are on zoom and on camera, and I think they missed so much, they missed so much.
From Yeah, that's interesting.
Are you still auditioning? Are you still tapes? I feel you're an offer only girl.
No, I'm like to think I'm an offer only, and yes, they're those. And then sometimes they'll say we want to see you on film, and yeah, so I'll do it. But you know, in general, you know, they do know my work, and I have a film that I can show them, but sometimes you know, they say, no, we want to see you read these lines?
Interesting? Yeah and how yeah?
Speaking of well, I was just going to say, now that we're getting into your acting career, can we talk about like what got you to this SPU episode?
Do we have a theory that Neil bar wanted you and came right after you?
That's right? Do you know him?
Yes, he's done our podcast twice.
Oh, he is a great guy. And as you know in that episode I did, he had and Margaret Morgan, Fairchild and all these you know, sort of seventies. It was really a fun show to do, although I didn't get to work with and Margaret and I didn't work with Morgan, but I love doings for you. I love New York. There was a big snowstorm. We were there longer. The streets were covered in snow, and so you know the length of time was you know, much longer because
we had to delay some shootings. But it's a great show. It's a show that gosh, how many years.
Twenty three seasons.
So he's done your podcast, tell him hi if he does it again.
Yeah no, and he you know, he told us that's his sort of like the thing, a thing he loves or just like all these class the actresses from the seventies, and so he was constantly trying to get them. And I think this episode is like gott Neil Bear's name written all over it because you were all.
Wow, it's all like these icons in one episode.
His idea. I think he had it even long before he brought it together. And I had worked for Dick Wolf before who because I'd done Christine Cromwell for him, and they just worked all those girls yeah together and it was a fun show. It's funny. I wanted to do the n Margaret part and they, oh, no, you're more right for this part. And you know, so I ended up being the bad guy and it was the bad girl, which.
Yeah, but you were such a great twist like you were the good You were like another cop, like just like a lot of times that show will bring in like a helper cop that kind of helps the squad and they don't always turn out bad, but you did, and I'd be great, a great twist.
Did you know that going in or while you read the script? Was it a surprise to you?
No, well, it opened up as I read it because I didn't think she you know, and it was revealed at the end. So so it was fun and of course, as you know, being in New York was a plus. It was a real plus.
Yeah, even though you had no scenes with the other guest starring women, did you guys get to do any dinners, hang out, have some laughs at the hotel all the set.
No, you know, it's funny. They bring them in. You know, they'd bring me to do my part. They'd bring and they'd bring Morgan. So that's how they save money time.
Sure, and don't have a lot of people waiting around, but.
It would have been fun normally if you do. You know, I've done Hallmark where you know Hallmark brings in actresses from the seventies. I watched it every night because I had to see those Christmas lights and Christmas trees. And you know, they say it's the highest rated network. Did you know that?
I did, But I believe it, And so.
When I do that and you're on location. Yes, you have dinner and you hang out and you know, it's a real camaraderie. But on SUV it's time to the end degree. So they get that show in seven.
Days or right. That's what we've heard from a lot of people that it's very like, you know, it's.
So well organized and it's down to you know, a certain routine and they've got it down. Those actors are you know, they can do it and they're sleep Sure.
You play a former cop retired cop in this episode? Did you draw on any of your Charlie's Angels detective skills? Yeah?
Was I yeah?
So long ago?
No?
How long ago was that?
No?
But you know I'm married to this guy that ends up being sort of crazy. Yeah, but you I think Charlie's you know, when I think back to holding a gun, we knew far and I knew nothing. Kate. She was like God, she could just you know, walk down the street hold that gun. And I'm doing a book now, I'm writing about that. How uncomfortable it was to hold a gun.
Oh wow.
So we had lessons. We had a technical advisor come in and teach us, you know how you you know, the safety issues of the gun, which is very important today. We know that, yes, and you know so, yeah, I think you drawn everything you do. Certainly I Drew on Charlie's, but Chris was, hey, let's face it, not a serious fluff And what did Aaron Spelling called Charlie's you know, mind candy. It was just supposed to be and not
over analyzed. And so for SV you know, I couldn't really draw on too much except just the lingo of a cop.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaking of Charlie's Angels, You've sort of appeared in a lot of the remake, right.
I did in the second one with Drew and Cameron and Lucy and loved it, and then the last one very brief, you know, but the last Charlie's evolved to a place I didn't recognize our show because you know, I mean times change, and they uh uh, they went to another level. Bosley. There were a million Bosley's. And it's interesting because I think the fans of Charlie's want Charlie's.
They want that original concept and I think, you know, certainly the way Drew brought it to life and Lynn Goldberg, that's what the public wanted.
Yeah, yeah, it was a hit, and you know, it just hit me.
I wonder if you do you like that pose has lived on and still to this day, if I'm taking a picture with two other girls, it's like, get into the Charlie's pose. Do you ever see that when you're out in about and I see it on underground?
Asked me to do that post, you know, with two other girls or so that's just and my daughter goes, Mom, why are you doing that? I said, you know, they don't quite get it. They don't get you know, my children never really watched Charlie's Angels, and they've seen it, they know it. I think they saw Drew's you know, the second movie, and they were sort of taken back with it, and but it's not familiar to them because they were little and and you know, I repeat this,
my son would go, oh, there's there's Jacqueline. Mommy and Jacqueline Smith were like two different people, you know, right, and he did they just you know, they were removed from it, and I was just mom. I was just mom. So they're not they don't really know that many shows like there are so many people this show. So I'm always shocked when I'm signing pictures for people that send in Charlie's, Charlie's, Charlie's. That's what it, you know.
Yeah, and I don't think that pose will ever go away.
I think even if the youth doesn't know where it's coming from, they really don't.
Yeah, they probably don't at all.
And I existed before that White MKINI and that, you know, that's when I was born. Yeah, it's interesting, but it's it when you think back, it's it's really great to be on on a show remembered like that and that kind of a hit because it's rare today and now there's so many networks, so wow.
We talk about that all the time that you know, SVU is probably one of like the few existing shows that like a lot of people will watch because it's in syndications so much.
But yeah, they're the water cooler.
Shows like just don't really exist anymore because there's so much splintered specific networks, so you can watch whatever you want to watch.
Hi, people make up their mind, you know, and then there's so many choices. But you know, when you think of friends or Sex in the City, and it'll be interesting to see how the new Sex.
And the City we've been watching. Are you watching?
Yes? I have been watching it. It's interesting.
What do you think?
I love the girls, I love thee Yeah.
So can I ask you just a couple more SVU thingsir, because you know we can't get enough.
Oh that's woful. I'm so y'all are really? I mean I am too, Like at night when I'll turn it on and watch a rerun.
Yeah, people, do you ever like here from people when yours reruns?
Like your episode's gone again?
I do, yeah, and it's rerun quite a bit.
So yeah, So what you got to be in like a great scene like at the station where you were you were with like Marishka, Christopher Maloney, Damn Floor at bed Wong like power players from the show.
So like what was that like?
Did you did you hit it off with any of them specifically or any little memories or tidbet do you remember?
I knew Marishka and I think she's your fault. I mean not, you know, just in passing and knowing her, But in all honesty, to be in that ensemble was a bit uh daunting, you know, because you've got to get into their rhythm and it's a fine oiled machine that group and so you know, I am an actress that has done you know, my movies and not gone
into series that much. So I think it was one of the more challenging moments because you don't want to let them down and you want to be right in with them and have their rhythm and uh so you know, it worked out great. But were their nerves. Yeah, there weren't some nerves, but everybody was so nice. You couldn't
have gotten a nicer group. And and like I say, they you know, the director knew, you know, how to stage, how to place, how to My scenes were emotional, so I was sort of into my head too because at the end it's kind of an emotional crying scene, which usually I'm pretty good at because I'm highly emotional. H So, you know, I just remember it in being a little scary at first because I hadn't done serious that much. I've just done movies, and on a movie, everybody's coming in fresh.
Getting to know it's a longer process.
Yeah.
I loved your chemistry with Marishka so much. And there's this awesome scene where you guys are walking and both of your hair is flowing in this perfect way and it's just the coolest hair walk every Well.
Gosh, you guys really remember it this. I'm going to watch it again. Yeah, we're going to watch it again.
You're so good and it you should definitely watch it.
Well, thank you. I don't always rewatch or watch some but I am going, yeah, I need to refresh with that one.
Yeah.
The chemistry like you and Marishka at the end when she's got you in the room, it's like very playful how she's kind of like, here's what you did, and she's like running through you, like but your character's like got an answer for every question. It's just like, no, this is why, this is why, and like it's not until she really.
Dumb bitch? Was that fun?
I've got to watch I wish i'd have watched it.
That should be a meme. It's so funny. You're like, what do you know, you dumb bitch? It's so funny.
I don't remember saying that. Okay, I'm watching it again tonight.
Well, we love to say that.
It's one of our favorite phrases on this podcast, for Get You, So yeah, we'll call somebody a dumb bitch if there, if they deserve it.
And with network television, you don't always hear swears, so it is really still shocking and exciting to hear today.
Guys, we do hear it, don't we.
Well on table Well, another moment that was shocking was when cal Cutler your husband your.
Dy Oh you got it. And now that brings back a lot that name, that name, what a name, cal.
Cutler, but also the prosthetics. He looked very scary. Do you remember having this act with him?
Right?
Yeah? He had like a melted face.
I know he had a melted face. I remember I was hiding him, wasn't Yes, Yeah, I do remember certain things. Yeah, yeah, I'll cut oh man.
Yeah.
And then there's one point also where they like look into your past or whatever and they open up your fold or your file and there's like a photo of you as a young cop and it's just like beautiful Jacqueline Smith's supermodel And I was like, did she give them this photo or did they photoshop this from like old existing photos of you that you know?
I do remember that, and I can't remember.
Oh okay, I just it's such a specific question.
I don't know if that was an old photo or they photoshopped or do you guys know more about.
Than I do cars that this is our business, but I mean I will, yeah, I'm just out of curiosity.
I do remember, did I turn in a picture and they do something? I don't know or maybe.
I wonder because you it's this beautiful, like mod photo of you, and I'm like, this does not look like a cop.
This looks like a supermodel.
But you know that they can pull those up. I mean I get pictures to sign today that I don't even know where that picture came from and that I haven't even seen. I don't know today on the internet. Yeah, everything's possible.
Yeah, no privacy, right, but also nice little memories I saw on your Instagram. People are like sending you old videos of you dancing and do it like, you know, it's kind of nice that that stuff exists.
Yeah, some of those are quite you know. The last one I didn't even remember. I don't know it was mascara or lashes.
Yeah.
I wanted me dancing, which I loved because that was my beginnings and possibilities that moment in time in New York, and I loved every minute of it.
Dancing being a ballerine in New York is very few people get to do that it's very cool.
Well, I didn't really get to be in the New York City ballet guys, but I did study and with the best, and I thought I would go home to Houston, Texas and open a ballet school and teach. But life takes turns and a different career happened for me. And I think my parents only let me go to New York because they thought, oh, she'll go, she'll get tired
of it, she'll come back and oops. It was hard at first because I was so close to home and my family, but I stayed two months, went home and thought, you know what, I'm going back, and that's when I really started to have a career.
Wow. I wanted to ask one more quick question because you were mentioning zoom and like that different, Like the difference between like zoom and putting yourself on tape for auditions is just different. Then, because you've been acting since the seventies, so you've seen the industry go through these huge, huge changes, and I was just wondering, how, like, are any other observations of like how it's changed for women or just in your experience.
Well, me too changed everything. I mean I think, yeah, I think things are different. That's one thing I think is good about Sex and the City. Older you know, older actresses going back and you know, reacquainted with a different chapter in their life is always an interesting thing. But I the industry is different because there's so many options. There's cable, there's Yeah, it's totally different than when I start. Totally.
It's quicker, it's less expensive, the camera work. So yeah, I think I was lucky to be on a show where they're in spelling and Lynn Goldberg where they didn't I mean everything. It was the best camera's, the best lighting, the best wardrobe, the best What you see is what you get. I mean, you know, it was kind of a wonderful time to be in television. Not that today isn't. It's just different. It's totally different.
Yeah.
Do you have like any projects coming up causes you support, anything happening with the Jacqueline Smith line that you want to like just shout out to our listeners.
I have something in the works that I can't talk about yet.
I love that.
Yeah, And I have a book I'm working on. And then I have a skincare line my husband does have retin all in it Anti aging gold Standard and then I have a wig line. I'm shooting this Sunday, in fact, with my daughter. She's coming in to do it with me, which gives, you know, two different ages. And these wigs. It's for Paula Young and I have a fabric line with Fabricut. My line is called Trend because my passion is home. It's my favorite place in the whole wide world.
I love decorating, I love doing houses, and so I have this line that's quite you know everything I think I've done, the wigs, the fabric, the skincare is affordable. My customer counts on value for me, and I think we've worked at where you know, certainly my skin cares online and we can lower the price. This new thing I haven't in the works. We will be reaching out to stores. I just can't talk about it yet until you know.
We love secrets.
Yeah, yeah, secrets are good. Anticipation is good. But the skincares my my husband, being a pediatric heart surgeon and doctor, he developed it with things I have used on my skin for you know, fifty years long.
Working and well, thank you. I know we were going to wrap up, but I'm curious how you and your husband met.
We met in Cla. He operated on my dad, who was here for my son's birthday. Dady got sick and he was in the hospital and Brad was one of the surgeons. He did a quordrouple bypass and so there he was and whoa. I didn't think anything was going to go in the direction it went, but.
It did.
And he was very kind to my parents, and he's my mother never wanted me to walk down to the garage by myself. He said, I'll walk her down and he did, and he said, can I take you to dinner? And that was it. It was very different. He was not a Hollywood height and he was very unfettered and different than anybody I'd ever known, still is still is many many years later.
That's great.
It's been a great step dad to my children. So you know, that's the best gift he could get me.
That's amazing.
Well, you know, we do have a we do have a casting person from SVU who listens to our podcast. So I would love to know if you were invited back, would you be open to going back on.
Us for you? Absolutely?
All right?
Good to how to write me great part?
Yeah?
Okay, yeah, I love the show. So yeah, I'm a fan.
So yeah, because I think you could really play like a rich lady with a secret.
Okay, I'm for it. Yeah, more works, better keeps you young, Work keeps you young.
Oh my god. I love Jacqueline Smith. Can she be my mom?
She's her little husband puttering around and correcting her and giving her little tidbits about her own career.
So cute.
Yeah, I can't believe we got to talk to her. It's really like, what the fuck?
Yeah? So one of Neil Bear's ladies.
Yeah, yeah, we got one of the Neil Bear angels. Uh and legit a Charlie's Angel, but it's an icon.
There's some people Sometimes I sit back and I'm like, damn, what the fuck?
Just like Jacqueline Smith and lou Diamond Phillips. Who are we Tom's Scaret on Zoom?
Yeah. It's like the number of people that I just grew up watching that we've talked to is pretty wild. But people, they don't I don't think they ever anyone means it insulting. I think they're genuinely curious. But I love when people go, yeah, how'd you get them? I'm shocked that I saw them on Okay, Joel Kim. It was about Dennis o' harry goes.
Honestly, I was really shocked to see that he did it, and I was like, Dennis O'Hair.
Yeah, it's like, adjust your expectations of us, JKB, we're getting people anyway. Post mortem on this episode, I don't know. I can't say we learned a lot of lessons, Like this fucking episode is one of the wildest things in the world, like the love triangles, the hiding a man with a melted face. I can't say that there's a lot of real world translation, but the killer guy being right in plain sight as like a sick dandrophy murderer was pretty scary.
My favorite is Anne Margaret being the killer eight times, but not like it was like I did it, but this it's like she gave us a performance of a life.
Well.
I think we learned that sometimes being a little bit crazy pays off, Like because she fucking kept those bloody sheets, that was a good like everything was her alibi because she was such a nut, like.
She loved him.
I loved the cutaways where it was like we talked about this obviously, but where it was like it was a mistake. It was a mistake. It was a mistake, and then her going I fucking loved it and I would do.
It like I'll see.
I loved how jacque Line Smith told us that that's the part she was going for, and I think she probably could have done excellent with it, but like it really ended up perfect. The casting, like her as the what do you know about it, you bitch? Like I mean, one of the best moments of all time on SVU, just her calling the Queen Benson a bitch.
And in terms of the real life case, for me, the biggest takeaway is like nothing is real and I don't know what's right or wrong or what happens, Like that guy spent sixteen years in prison. Was it a false thing? Did he attack his wife? We don't know.
Maybe he was an abuser but not a murderer, you know.
Yeah, It's just like how things are not always so oh.
I want to say.
So, I was asked to go into jury duty recently, but it's in Illinois, so I couldn't. So I'm going to send in documents. I got a switch. I mean the fact that I still have an Illinois license. I have not lived in Illinois for eight years.
I would.
I just refuse. I don't know, it's just listen, regular tasks stress me out. But so I wrote them, I'm like, I'm sorry, I would obviously like to do my service, but I'm I'm actually going to be out of town for work and this and that and I live here. Responded within a day, going yep, you're relieved, we'll hit you back in eleven weeks.
Send us this paper.
Work, like you hear so much shit about jury duty and the government, and I was like, this is the best customer service I've ever had, which.
Wow, I'm surprised you were able.
That might be a COVID thing that you were able to email, because usually you have to like show up and say I can't do it, and then that's the pain in the end with jury duty.
Yeah, maybe, I mean, hopefully things will change and they don't. Won't go back to psycho that.
I just had it in LA I just had it like a few months ago. But it was like, because of COVID, everything's online, so you show up every day, you check in at a certain time, and then it goes you don't you don't have to do anything, and then you check in the next day. You do that for a full week and every day it just said you don't have to do anything, and then that's it.
I guess I just did my jury duty like service, but no, I want a me too.
I just need to become a California resident, I think so then I can maybe do jury duty here while I'm here.
I don't know I have I don't know what to do.
Yeah, I do think you should get a California license. Also, if you get pulled over, tell them you just moved here.
Yeah, yeah, telling you.
I stupidly said, oh, I've been here six months, and they were like, you're going to court.
I would say, I don't even live here. I'm gonna be like, I stay at a I swap with a friend. Get away from me. No, look, your name is on the registration of your car. They're not totally any oh is it.
Anyway?
Let's this was a great episode. I'm so happy we did it. It's psychotic.
But let's get into what would Sister Peg do? Psychotic, iconic or what would Sister Peg do? This week?
Which is our weekly segment where we give you guys some information or an organization, a book, an article, something to give you more info about what we talked about in today's episode. Listen today's episode. I didn't really see a lot of real world application to it. It's like a full crazy commercial man who's got seven girlfriends and then someone's keeping a melted man in her apartment. It just didn't really like nothing jumped out to me as
something that would like be like pro victim. But I wanted to shout out today an organization that connects to Melissa Lucio, who I talked about at the beginning of the episode. We've already mentioned her Whole Truth, which is an instagram. They're doing a lot for it to help Melissa, so you can check that out. Hopefully you follow them already. But this organization was sent to me by A and
I'm so sorry I forgot to save your message. I just saved the organization that you sent me, so I can't shout you out, but thank you for sending this to me. So this organization is called Advancing Real Change. It's www. Dot advance change dot org and they're in an organization of mitigation specialists that help decision makers see a fuller, more nuanced picture of every person facing incarcerations.
So that's their background.
Abuse they've experienced, you know, like childhood trauma, trauma as an adult. It just paints a bigger picture and not just like this is a criminal and more, this is a person that could use rehabilitation and help. So as a result, they enable more just outcomes that take the whole person into account. So if you want to support them or even work for them, they have employment and internship opportunities on their website. They also have a bunch
of workshops and trainings listed. Please check them out at advance change dot org. And again, these are always on our Instagram and in our Instagram highlight called WWSPD. Thank you so much for that Karay, what a terrible time and hopefully she will not be murdered.
Now moving on to next week's news next week, we will be next week. This is a PSA.
You gotta get eight hours of sleep, okay, so we will be watching Chasing Demons for next week's episode. That's season nineteen, episode fourteen. Please watch along with us or not, and we will see you next week.
Thank you guys so much for listening by tour tickets. Bye.
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