Baby Killer

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Dundun, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up and SVU podcast. Wow, I sound like a newscaster. I'm Kara Lank, I'm one of your hosts, and I'm Lee's the trigger with the traffic update. The bound edens is sumfered a bumper this cold Tuesday morning.

Yeah, it's we're excited.

We talk sview true crime and I do have huge news.

I did beat Super Mario three. I did beat it Donna.

The quest that started when I was a child finished decades later.

Do you feel a little bit like there's something missing in your life now?

No, I feel so excited. I beat it like it I like beating Bowser. Felt so good and it was hard. Like the fact of the matter is in that final Castle, there is like a secret life that you can get so like you're not gonna lose lives.

You have enough.

It took me dozens of times like Bowser in that final one is really hard.

It was for me at least, but I did it.

And then the prize you get when you beat it is it starts over and you get unlimited pee wings, And a peewing is a thing that you can use. It's like a special thing where it's a permanent wing. You don't have to run to fly. You could just fly. You just fly, and so you get to like if something's really hard, you can miss it. So then I played the game with unlimited pee wings, being strategic.

Of course you need a hammer.

Suit sometimes, but I beat it like so fast, like I a YouTube person, like I you were a YouTube person, you were on Twitch, people were watching you, they were tipping you.

It was like I just was never in a zone like that where I just was dominating. And maybe it was the cockiness, Like I was cocky too because I had just beat it and now I have unlimited pee wings a lot like I just I just felt, uh, that's amazing the world. So now I started, Yes, so what She's Island?

I started?

Yoshi's Island's so funny because Rosie, you know, I told you we have Super Nintendo, the little one that comes loaded with all the games. Rosie's been playing Yoshi's Island with Jared and Kirby. She loves Kirby. I love Kirby, but learning a whole new universe seems hard to me.

Yeah, she's not really.

I mean she's like he's just teaching her how to play, and it's really cute, like and Yoshi's Island was like I love the little sound when Yoshi sticks out his tongue and it's like like, I don't I'm not doing it right. But like I was watching them play and it was really cute. And I had not really known about Yoshi's Island. So look, everyone's playing. I have Rosie once again connected, I know. But also do you like the baby Mario? Like Yoshi has a little baby Mario

I'm doing it. Like I was like, what's happening?

They get eggs? It's really it's it is silly, for sure. I'm stuck on a really hard level though. So I did buy the new Mario Mario. Otis wonder Mario. I hate it the new game. There's so much reading, you just keep having to go a like I don't want to read.

I don't want to read.

Yeah, I'm ever a reader, even with board games and stuff. I'm always like, let's just start and figure it out. Like I kind of like hate like all of the this. Stop for a second and read this whole disclaimer before we go on, Like I hate it.

Yeah, I don't want to read.

But yosha, I can't believe Rosie's playing. I gotta play with Rosie.

I want to play. Oh, she's eland come play on our little super Nintendo. Yeah, I'm stuck on this. I can't. I can't get out of this deep gem world. I don't know. Oh.

Also, so I was in Portland opening up for my friend Matteo, who's killing it.

I mean, he's so famous.

I said his name to the hotel clerk because I was going to go up to his hotel room, and the clerk next to her went gasped. And we went out to eat, and you could just tell the servers are just like smiling, they are gooning in the tricksy it is.

It is really fun.

People get really excited to see him. His crowds are great, but you hate indoor pools. Yeah, let me tell you, I think you'd like the one at the Ritz Carlton in Portland.

I'll tell you well, I don't think I've ever been to an indoor Ritz Carlton pool. I'm talking indoor pools, dude.

It's on the nineteenth floor and then the whole there's no ceiling. It's all windows. You see the mountains of port I've never seen Portland so beautiful. Okall glass shining in It is an infinity pool still too, so it looks like it's just the myning.

And of course a hota. But the ceilings were so high.

I took a video for you, and I made Mateo take photos because I was like, I have to show care of this indoor pool.

We got to make it to the Ritz, like we got it.

We got one of these days Portland, buy no ticket, just kidding.

We don't even have a date in Portland right now. But also, but the dining was too high up. We're like, do you I want to just get dessert after the show? I go, you know, I'd love to split a cheesecake. Let's go.

But it was like mushroom fung guy Ice scream in champagne glitters like, oh no, no, we had like a pumpkin thing with noodle leath. It's just like we weren't in the mood for fine dining, which if we were, maybe we wouldn't be.

But it felt like the menu. It felt like the menu the way we were talked to, like that.

Movie, yes, yes, yes, Oh my god, when you were like, hopefully and they're not going to murder me, that's.

Amazing and that sounds so fun. Oh my gosh.

I just I'm so happy for Matteo all the success he's found. You know, he and I used to just go to dinner and speak Italian together.

Yes, of course, I love that came up, that came up. I'm always like, I'm oa like I love him so much.

But I wait, can I just really randomly change the subject because I wanted to say something that just came to my attention from some viewers of some listeners. Yeah, remember how we just covered surveillance a couple of weeks ago, Zoe Deschanel, the stuff, Okay, so not shoe, Come on, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, sorry.

Should I take that again? Sorry? Emily, No, you dis respected everyone hearing.

I'm sitting in my mistake, I said, Zoe. I met Emily. I met Emily de Chanel. Emily de Chanell, you know, the guy's stalking her. They go to an internet cafe and a little kid is like on the internet computer and.

He's like what this guy was just sitting here.

I'm just looking it is stuff and he's like looking, that's fucking Nicholas Braun, the guy who plays cousin Greg on Succession. Like you know, you know, I love IMDb. I love to look up everybody his little kid. His name's Nicholas Braun and in the show he's literally just billed as kid. Like it must have been one of his first roles of all time. And like literally I think he was in one team movie and then he was in his view.

It's so funny because he has these big chipmunk cheeks in when he's a kid.

I mean, it's so cute. Oh my god. Well I haven't seen success I like Succession started almost twenty years later. I mean I've seen the first three episodes, so I know who the character is. We're in the time machine. Get the fuck over at anyone listening.

But I think over the holiday break, maybe I'll get into Succession, maybe I'll just been.

I want to try it again because I feel like I tried it right after I had Rosie, and I was like, these people are so evil and like this is not evil, but like I don't care about these people like selfish fucks. But I want to try it again because, like I mean, obviously I love Seinfeld and

I mean, like the acclaim for it. People were obsessed.

I think I just caught it at the wrong time, like I just had a baby and was like, this is for me. But I'm looking right now on his little IMDb he was just in twenty twenty two the voice of someone named cousin Greg in a Simpsons episode.

In an episode he is murder dude.

I just found an article. It's a photo of him with Maloney. I'm sure all the listeners know, since they're the ones who told us, But he wrote it was a very exciting role I played, I think a character without a name, boy and Internet cafe because those existed at the time. He goes, I was looking at a video of a woman who got murdered or assaulted, because that's the show. And then Christopher Maloney and iced tea. I think, come and sit down. Why, yeah, we know

Oh, from Lauren Cook. Yeah, well no, I said.

I just said, like, somebody brought up Taylor Swift and I go, well, you guys know, Lisa's obsessed. Like I'm now a fan through osmosis, Like I like, I know every single thing that's going on with them because of Lisa.

Well, there was a cheek kiss. They look cute. She touched his face with her hand.

I like it.

I mean, someone I know just posted like a screenshot of their Apple stories and it was like Gaza Ukraine cute cheek kiss between Taylor and Dress and it was like that those were the three top stories on Apple for the day.

That's what we need.

We need it, We need it. Look, the world is dark, there's a lot going on. We need a little cheek kiss. I think that this relationship couldn't have come at a better time for a lot of people.

I am obsessed with Taylor, but we don't have to talk about her today. But also I've been so in my head about Taylor that I was with some people and Casey musk Graves started playing slow Burn and I went, oh, yeah, I like other people too.

I were forgot, Yeah, I forgot.

And so I listened to some Casey musk Graves and.

Her voice is gorgeous.

I mean, she is so good and she's a pothead, you know, so I do like that.

I'd love to get I would love to get high with Casey. Must a little high with Casey.

Okay, Wait, we have not talked in a little bit, and I know this is time machine. This is so old. We apologize, guys. Time machine days are behind us. We've not talked about the weed Dinner on Beverly Hills. Wow, thank you for bringing that up.

I just We're obviously gonna talk about the Weed Dinner, and I'm gonna be so happy about it. But I do want to say, LARSA. Pippen, your scum, your worst than scum. You are the worst person that's ever been on television, and I want, I want you off.

I can't. I've never been so sickened.

I literally yesterday got my hair colored by this. I was talking her for three hours and I kept bringing up Housewives and she I was like, wait, do you watch And she's like no, and I go, oh my god, I'm so sick. Like I just keep bringing up people to you that you don't even know. And I go, but you know who Larsa Pippen is And she was like yeah. She said one of my clients is friends with her and says she's so sweet, but then said one other thing, and I go, I don't. She's not sweet,

I I'm so sorry.

She just was like I was trying to get people behind you, like you were gonna tell everybody anyway. She's horrible, She's unrepentant asshole. She goes, you're welcome.

I mean to fucking accuse someone of faking cancer when they are crying asking for compassion, and it is it is beyond to me. Yeah, And at Bravocon, Andy gave her the floor to redeem herself and look back, and she couldn't. She And it's like you you're dating Michael Jordan's son. You were twisted. And you know, the rumor of the Kardashian thing is there's an episode that Scott Dissick has or someone that Chloe was someone I think

The rumor, like I don't think, yeah, that's just a rumor.

I mean, I don't know if that's reddit, you know, but Larsa, like Jenshaw, is in jail for defrauding the elderly. I'd rather visit her in jail than even look at Larsa Pippen in the eyes Brooks Brooks from OC lied about having cancer. I'd rather suck his dick than Seesar. That is how I feel. I am, like I am to do that to Gerty.

I can't. I really, I really am upset.

I'm really upset by but yeah, it's just it's really upsetting. And we've never seen someone a housewife like this deal with. Honestly, these women show us their whole lives. They do, they really do. Kyle back to Beverly Hills. Let's go positive. We dinner. We have Denise Richards fucked out of her mind, wearing a jacket backwards, confronting.

I was like, I kept going, oh my god, oh my god, rewinding it, making Jared watch he doesn't even care.

I was like, you gotta see this. This is so insane, like.

Just the whole the whole thing where she was going Erica. Now, okay, so again, if you don't know, this is just all the women from Real Housewives of Beverly Hills go to somebody's house. All by the way, it should be called the Real Housewives of Encino. None of them live in Beverly Hills. They're at Kyle's house and Encino and they're having a weed dinner where like the it's like a top not chef.

Is he hot food? He was hot?

Yeah, and he's making them like delicious gourmet food with THHD in it, which like I've eaten. I've had weed dinners before. Like it's you get so high, it's so fun. It's dangerous because you keep eating because you're high, and then you just keep getting more high. Like when I did that one time, it was one of the highest

I go one.

Is like you're standing next to a person smoking a joint, like stop at.

Derey, Like, don't even do anything. If you're gonna do one, and I.

Would, of course, yes, do what the guy suggests, Like they're all just trying to act like on camera like we never well, no, yeah, in light's a joint at the table, like, which was so for attention because it's like, are you honestly saying that? Well, I know, Lisa, you're like this, you prefer the burn of the joint. But I don't think Sutton strack. I'm like, if you just want to get hi, just eat the food, why are you lighting up a joint?

You're like trying to get attention.

I would never just light up a joint at a dinner table in someone's home. I'm sure, she asked off camera. I don't think so. They all looked confused, but it's just so rude, like Sutton's all about manners. I feel like I do. I I had the feeling that she said I was told I could. I thought she said something like that, so I was like, Okay, no pill or doing it.

So performed performance.

But then Denise Richards, who is not on the show anymore and hasn't been on the show in two years, is at the dinner comes with Camille Grammer, Kelsey Grammer's ex wife. Again, if you're not watching these shows, I don't know what's wrong with you. Listen to our description. It's amazing. Like Charlie Sheen's x's wife shows up with Kelsey Grammar's ex wife that are both former cast members, and they Denise says like drunk on pills. Something's up because I heard her order she didn't order any of

I bet it. I bet it was pills an alcohol.

Yeah, it's pills an alcohol to me always and so and she's calling Erica out Erica Jane for something that she did but won't say what it is. And it's just like you know, you know, I eat it, watch the show, watch the show, breaking the fourth wall talking about the show. And then Eric apologizes and she goes, thank you, you're welcome.

Denise says thank you and you're welcome to herself, and then.

They cut right to the chef, going, yo, Denise Richards is so fucked up right now.

That whole like two minutes made me laugh so hard.

Well, because what was the other franchise I was watching? They're all mixed up in my head. I'm so sorry. But the driver kept being like what like there was so much fighting in the sprinter van, and they just kept they had a camera on on this like, Jolly driver, was.

It the Bermuda? Was it when they were in Bermuda? He was hot too. All of these dudes and the chef, the driver, they're really like bringing it. But to the point where no one knew what she was going on. She just kept going, you know what you did, you know.

What you did.

It was wild. But then later Dori just goes, I think your jacket's on backwards and that I mean her jacket was upside down, which was so funny because inside out it's like we could all do that upside down. Yeah, she couldn't find the collar of the jacket. It was upside down. Her arms, like her arms must have felt weird in the holes. That's not the way the holes were supposed to go, it was and.

She just kept going, don't do this. I know what you're doing, don't do this, Like she was so fucked up. It was crazy.

It was incredible, but also set in your bad friend Kyle is being honest. Obviously something's going on in her life, and I don't know why you're getting so much pleasure out of pushing her like that.

You know she's being a psycho, Like you're off. Yeah, you got to back off when somebody says I can't.

It's crazy. It really they're being really bad friends. And I mean the information about her friend. I think that's why she's done with Mauricio. I think he couldn't support I think he like decided to travel and become wealthy instead of yeah, being there first.

That's what I've been reading as well.

But anyway, if you're not going to watch anything, just pop on this weird Dinner episode of Beverly Hills and just feast your eyes, have a good time.

Light up a joint in the middle of someone's house.

Yes, but or if you want to, we've taught the Salt Lake City episodes in at Trixy Motel have are also very joyful to me.

But I hate Sutton.

But I think name Them, Name Them is gonna go down in history.

Yeah, totally, there's some sad episode. Yeah, let's get to it. Guys. No, we're not. We're not a Bravo podcast, but we should be.

Just a heads up for those of you that listen to that's messed up and as few podcasts on the Apple podcast app, which I know is a few of you, there have been some new changes with the iOS seventeen update. Apple has paused downloads on podcasts if your phone's running out of storage or if you haven't listened in a while, so just make sure there's available space so that you can continue to get our episodes every week and like

Let's get started.

We've got a hot episode going back in to the vaults.

Unfortunately, today's episode is called baby Killer, so nothing positives happening here.

You know, this is a real get ready to get sad episode.

Yeah, from the title on, we have November two thousand and it is wild. Maybe it's a little trite to discuss, but I am, like, holy shit, I've lived like a long time.

I know, I'm like November of two thousand. I was on my semester abroad, just like living it up.

I was in high school or college, no, junior high.

Yeah, high school at least high school, not college. Yeah, I graduated high I was five, so like eighth grade.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so funny.

I was.

Yeah, this girl gave on my on my twentieth birthday, which was right before this episode aired. I this girl on my semester of broad program gave me her life since and it was it was her real license from New Jersey.

But I'm six inches taller than her. And her name was Dana.

I don't I won't say her full name, but she had this very like Scaramoucci like last name, like very Italian, and in her thing, she's kind of like squinting and like looks kind of like poudy. So every time I would go to a bar, I would like stare off into the distance, like trying to look poudy and squinty, like I mean, you can't see me, right, and it is not a vision.

Oh yeah.

Most of the time it worked because it's like it's a lot better to use a fake ID, a real idea that's not you, because it's really hard to be like, that's not you unless it's glaring. You know. We had sort of similar hair color and skin tone. It's like everyone takes a weird picture every now and then, you know.

I used my sister's ID, who is ten years older than me, but it only got rejected twice.

But yeah, like so funny. They were like, yeah, you're twenty nine, Like yeah, oh my god.

Twice it was like you gotta get out of here, and I was like true, true, true. We did one time make our friends Sophia use like a fake idea that was a man's and it didn't work.

It didn't work well.

Before I had this girl Dana's, I had one that was not me, not real and expired from Vermont.

Oh, So that didn't work at all, or sometimes it did.

It would work in Connecticut sometimes if they just didn't pay pet attention to the expiration. And that was another one where I was squinting because the girl's really squinty. She's high as hell in her photo, and I'm like squinting. I mean, you know, the things we did things. But anyway, okay, we were babies, and this episode is called baby Killers, so let's keep.

Going seeing you know, we write down the air date and just seeing two thousand is like, it's also my favorite time in music history.

So I was just thinking that. I was like, this is a time where Brittany is thriving. We're really loving life music.

No, and this is another okay, sorry, we were talking about Taylor Swift before we started recording.

It is in my brain forever.

But that's another thing watching all these youtubes she was she's been so young, you know, like the Tailor, the Mileys. You know, some of our girls have really like been able to thrive through their teen and young years, which a lot of our other popsters have not been able to do. And that's like so impressive. Forget how young these people are when you watch them in arenas and they're teenagers. Yeah, it's crazy. It really is okay. So back to Baby Killer. It's recess time. The kids are

Here though, it's just like to be in the movie Wild Wild West.

It's definitely not the Hunchback of Notre Dame. I am to have my references wile.

Wild West is a good Yeah, that's a good comparison.

It's just so funny, Like I just can't imagine a guy who was in arcotics forever grew up in New York.

It would be wearing vests and undershirts.

Like, I'm just so curious at this and how he was able to transition out of that. You know with his seniority whatever, he breaks the news. There was a shooting at PS three eighty seven in East Harlem. Six year old girl died at the scene. They're bringing up the shooter now. Munch is like, why would we be talking to the shooter right now? The brass thinks we're better equipped to handle him. Stabler says, bring on the perver. And then we see a little child walk in. He

And then we jumped to the car. It's of course, I don't know how you can. He's so cute. Yeah, like a cute child killer.

Okay, so Benson asked Munch, does that look like a cold blooded killer to you. Craigan asked if there's any luck getting the parents, and wildly they both called in six to work and can't be found. M Finn does a walk by question, can you even charge a seven year old with murder? And yes, he just made the cutoff. Two panic people run into the squad room. So the man I know from Sex and the City he played

I don't know if that was like a moment for you or not. And yeah, for sure, I remember watching Center Stage a lot.

And then also a season six episode of SVU called The Game. So the mom is Sarah Ramirez, who is famous for playing Chay Diaz, will probably haunt them for the rest of their career. And so that's in't just like that. We they're in the episode of SVU called Cameleon,

And yeah, it's history, baby is.

But you know, famously, I read this one thing that was like, this is actually the most accurate portrayal of a comedian. Comedians are the most insufferable, annoying people on the planet, and this is totally in line with every comedian I've ever met. And it was like this galker piece or something like that, which I did think was funny. There was a moment when Sarah was like in bed doing the cameos chay Dias where I was like, this

I can see it.

Also, we're birthday twins August thirty first, so that's pretty love for us. So anyways, wildly, both his mom and dad had small parts in the musical Chicago the movie as well. No so maybe they met on that set, who knows, but they're stress. Benson turns around to help them in her short pixie cut glory. They say, we're here for son Elias. He's been involved in a shooting. She's like, why aren't we at the hospital?

Is he dead?

She's crying and she's like, oh, there's a misunderstanding, baby, your son was actually the shooter. The dad doesn't own a gun. The mom is stunned. Stabler's like, well, where does he have access to a gun? And they're like, he's either at home, school or the sitters. The babysitter's name is Missus Strata. Yeah, reminds me of Eric Astrata, just because they I think it's a strata too. The last it's not because no, no, I have the captions on.

Wait, Eric, isn't it eric Astrata? I don't know. Yeah, it's Eric Astrada is the exactly. But I think that's why we that's why. Yeah, it's sucking us up here. Yeah, but it's missus Estrada.

But that's also the egg dish that Carrie that Sarah Jisca Parker does at the Family Stone.

Oh, Strata mean street in Italian. There's a there's a famous movie called Lostrada. Wow, all right, well that's important to anyone.

So this is a babysitter and her name is Missus Strata, and they ask for their son. So Craigan convinces them to sign a Miranda waiver so they can all like talk together, which is a trick for sure. I would never allow this. They waive the rights because they just want to see their son, and they march over there. Finn looked up the dad in the system. He's clean as a whistle, which whistles are disgusting, filled with saliva.

It's like, you don't spend enough time with kids.

I think to know how to do this because you have four, but you don't spend time with them.

Oh, it's like, do you like school? Yes?

Second grade his favorite subject. He shrugs. He doesn't have one. Small dog is over though they're gonna talk about today. He admits to knowing Carly Jackson. When asked if he likes her, he shakes his head no. Stabler asks why not? She's always bothering me, is his answer. She chases me and tries to kiss me, and so he's like, okay, So what happened at re sas he said that she fell down? What made her fall down? I mean, this is like speed it up, kid, So anyways, he's traumatized.

So what made her fall down?

Stabler pushes the kid is staring right at him, takes a long pause, and then says the gun. Well, who's holding the gun? The boy asks is Carly going to be okay? And Stabler again asks who had the gun and he has to whisper I did. The dad finally gets up and is like, okay, we're gonna stop this and we're gonna get a lawyer, And obviously Stabler's like, yeah, that's fine with us. It's why do you let us talk to him for this long? But he's gonna stay

So that's like a little little humor from Craigan. Uh oh.

The press is out and they're all trying to get a snapshot of what's going on. Munch pushes his way past them and into the gate to the playground and there's a little memorial set up, flowers, balloons, photos of Carly, and the principal is standing over it. Munch walks over to her. He asks if the two kids had drama in the past, and she says neither had ever been sent to her office. So she says she saw Lias

Girls. Yeah, girls, that's sad. But teen's dying.

Yeah, like so, but this principle is affected, and she's also reflecting like she wants to help. She's like, what did I miss? You know, Like she is just a stellar person, this principle. So Benson and Stabler go to missus Strata's house the daycare. She says he's an angel and she can't even believe it. They straight up ask if she has a gun at the house. Her curtains are very Gramma vibes. My mom would love these fucking curtains.

We have these curtains, she says, please, and and.

She is like, none of the kids would do this.

And Stablor asks if she has the numbers to the parents of these kids, and she's even insulted by the question, like of course, I do work and home, and she points them to the list. She's watching out the window as the kids are playing and yells at two kids fighting, and they listen to her and stop right away, which is a good sign they respect her. And there are kids inside as well. Stabler asks if she's in charge

Like very serious.

This boy says he got the gun from his pants, but doesn't know anything else. And the boy is pretty like defensive and like pissed off. Munch is with the children too, and the boy with Munch is like, ah, she kissed him all the time and he would get red, and she was walking over to him that day. Stable and Benson are debating on their adventure about how they should charge the parents, even though it's a hot button issue.

Well, they also didn't even own a gun, yeah, like they I mean it's like, yes, you have to check and see if your caregiver has a gun, but the mistrata says she doesn't have a gun. So it's like they've done their due diligence, you know. Yeah, but they just don't seem like assholes to me.

Yeah.

The elevator doors open and there's a walk in talk that follows. Elliot's just like what would have made a little boy like that one to take a life? And Benson calls him out like you're searching for a way to make him a victim. The only victim here is a dead little girl, and I'm with her, but he is really cute and it is hard. Okay, So there's a woman and her name is Sonia Petis and Elias

That's really crazy. It is forty kids is a humongous class.

I can't even imagine.

I can't Just getting in a line probably takes fifteen minutes, yeah, minimum. So she's digging in her bag and she was in the teacher's lounge when she heard, and when she heard it was Elias, she said she got physically ill. Benson's like, Okay, you've been digging in that giant bag for a while. Is there something you want to show us in the bag? And she's like, yes, after twenty years of teaching, you know,

I don't know.

It's just like, I really like the characters in this episode. So she hands over a drawing he drew it yesterday. Holy shit, it's a fucking shooting. It's two boys with a gun, but he's holding a green and red checkered thing and between the gun and the victim, and I can't figure out what it is. It is a folder, like I don't know, and then it's a girl with blood everywhere out of her stomach, so not good. Stabler goes, you know, Carly had a ponytail, and so that's the scene.

Who is he? He's like Rumpel still skin to me. He truly just has like energy that I'm not into. Okay, are you gonna look it up? Yeah? I'm looking up this actor because I just want to see what else I.

Like know him from. We know him. He's played annoying. I know this guy. Yeah, yeah, let's see. Okay, let's see.

He's got one hundred and twenty credits, so okay.

He's a regular on Billions.

If you watch Billions like currently, he's a Billions regular. He's been on seventy six episodes of That The Walking Dead, he was a regular. He's been on eight episodes of Law and order regular, okay, but I wouldn't know any of that. I do see one that I know burn after reading It's a small book, but he was a cosmetic surgeon, and I feel like I did watch I do watch that movie a lot.

Wait, The Mist.

I didn't see The Mist, but it's always in like lists of the most heartbreaking off endings of movies of all time, and so I have seen just the ending of it and it's pretty fucked up.

Oh wow, the Miss.

So I don't think I'm gonna watch the whole movie, you know, I did, just I watched the ending, but.

I think you should call him lemony stick.

At the rest of the episode, he just has like not good vibes, Like straight up, there are some actors that just play you know, weirdos. Yeah, so Tuesday, November seventh, and I wonder if that's election day where the I voted stickers, because election, right, that has to be election day. He says, charge the boy with murder and cab it's like he's seven, and the dude's like, yeah, any of you was six, that would be different. But the laws of the law and there's no room for interpretation. I

But you know, this is in the two thousand.

He says, people are fed up, and Cabot's like, nope, you want to get elected next year and you're getting you know, you're trying to get all splashy in attention. He doesn't have a response because she just called his ass out real good, and he just cares about, like, you know, impressing constituents. He takes a moment to collect himself and says that the boy knew the difference between right and wrong, and Cabot's like, yes, but to not understand the consequences of his actions. And he yells, he

They both jump back like whoa. She goes, are you satisfied?

They make her put the gun on the table and ask why it's loose in her bag.

She says, you know, she leaves work. She leaves you know, the hospital. She has to take us the subway, a bus and walk four blocks at three am, and she's putting on some lipstick. She's getting ready, you know, classic, She's getting ready while they're trying to get some info out of her. Munch is now like, oh, well, you shouldn't have it in your purse. So she gets sassy and is like, yeah, I leave it at home so the appliances can protect themselves. You have a child living here,

So I think this kid is a cop. Lover.

He tells them he knows Elias and that he popped that little girl. Benson and Stable are at like, you know, talking to a science cop in a lab and they're talking about the guns and the bullets and holy shit, this gun was used in a different crime. There's a second body on that gun. So this case is growing. We go talk to the cop of that other case. Basically the victim is Shorty Esposito Latino Mayo. He got smoked in the ticker right before your case. Like what

I was just looking it up, but yes, I was like I recognize him.

Yeah, yeah, the father of Lordes and he's also in the episode Wildlife where he plays another.

Kind of he's like a party promoter yeah.

Right yeah, and gives coke to the girls. Yeah.

Here, he owns a Sansoria style store. They show him the photo and he goes, yes, that is a customer and Benson says was and they accuse him and he says, you know, goats is the highest in the food chain.

We go with sacrifice. They want scoop on this dead guy.

He goes, no, part of our religion is secret, see, and that's freedom of religion and I'm not violating his rights and Benson goes, he's dead, he has no rights. And Taylor then is like, are you a priest? And he gives it up and is like, no, I'm actually an atheist businessman. But there's three hundred thousand people in New York that practice Santaia and they need to shop someplace they can trust. So I'm like, I mean, baby Killer is sad, but this episode is really fucking good.

But my right was interesting though. He was like, that's the money guy. He never touches the product. I was like, I didn't know that.

I thought.

I what you usually see on these little things are like someone hands the money and someone you know, that palm's a little pocketive white powder or whatever.

But like this is like a whole lot where there's a separate guy.

So no one can get held accountable if like for the actual exchange.

All right, I'm learning, I'm learning.

Yeah, But the lookout, it's like the lookout. Yeah, yeah, the corner boy, we got that. Yeah. A grocery store owner stops the boy and it's like, come on, let him go, let him run, but they obviously have pass beef, so he runs trying to get involved and the boy says, shut up, old man.

Finn is like, focus on us. Do you know these people?

And they show the photos and the ten year old doesn't know who they are. Benson pushes for scoop from the grocery guy. The dealer glares, but this motherfucker is not scared. Gives the names and everything he knows. Elias, he's at the store all the time, but not with this dead guy. With another guy named Sweetness. He's eighteen or nineteen and he has a sweet tooth. Benson and Stabler enter to the squadroom and munches scoop on sweet Tooth.

Perfect.

Okay, So sweet Tooth has placed in foster care at age eight for truancy. Then it turned into shoplifting, then drugs, then larceny, then gun possession. The last person who posted bail for him was his great grandmother, missus Strata, the daycaree.

Dumb no.

They go to her, sassy ass and she says that her grandson has nothing to do with this little girl's death. They're like, dude, you know Alia's got a gun, and you know Antonio has a gun and has had gun troubles in the past. She says he has changed, he has gotten his life together. He helps with the kids, he takes them to the park, buys them candy. The kids call him Sweetness. Benson bends down to be like on her level and goes that parking store. He takes

Stairs.

Down, you can climb down, right yeah? They are running through. No, how would you do how would you say it.

Going down the stairs or descending the stairs versus a.

Yeah, descending? So you yeah, so you would go down, you descend down a mountain? Okay, so whatever. He's going down the fire escape. They're running through a courtyard and they find a bleeding man in the trash. His throat is slit and he's bleeding out. He's like, who did this to you? Who did this to you? He whispers with the last bit of energy he hasn't too Stabler's ear machete, which is from Breaking Bad. I feel too right, machete or it could just be a word and Stabler.

Danny Treyjoe plays a character named Machete Right Yeah, Case and Breaking Bad okay, perfect, No, no, just character.

Yeah.

Oh but Treyjo isn't breaking bad. Okay, yes, it's tree. Wow, there's a whole series. Yeah, that's like Danny Treyo's big character is. There's three machete movies. Did you know that low Hands in one of them? Oh my god, wait, we gotta get her. But Steven Seagal is too. All right, listen, let's go back to Baby Killer.

So Stabler is like, my shed, my shed, and I'm over you fucking idiot. People are not getting Spanish. Is like so funny, it's a dig. He's like, my shut up, my shed day. Yeah, we're at the office and the photo of the dead man and the drawing Elias Drew have the same you know, gray camel pants.

We've discussed this.

They're like, when he drew this, he wasn't plotting out Carly Jackson's murder. He was drawing this murder that he witnessed. This was a cry for help. Cabot's like, he's been through so many questions, through so many systems, interrogations. Why wouldn't have said anything? Craigan goes, well, I mean these are drug dealers and killers. They scare the kid. The kid might be scared. Benson and Stabler are like, fuck, we need to talk to him. Cabot says, the judge

So this dude is like, oh, yeah, it was a party. It got out of hand.

There was a knife, a brawl and he took thirty five statements. He stops everyone who left the building, and the cop shares all thirty five interviews and we're working to see if he knows any of them. Elias recognized two of the people, but Alias said it wasn't machete, and they're like, who the fuck is this guy? So then they come up with the most crazy plan I've ever seen an SVU. This would not work and it's

But I remember this like so well from when this was first on, Like I remember this being like, oh my.

God, that kid must be so terrified.

But they have him in this like we pig mask and they just like bring him around for like to a like what could be a drug corner or like a drug front.

We have no idea.

It's like everyone's gonna know who that little child is. They see him all the time, they know the case is happening. But also, why are these obvious cops have a kid with a mask on like it just doesn't make sense.

Yeah, he's not like walking with an uncle, like if they had him walking with like I don't know one guy to be like undercover. But it's like he just walks in with a crowd of cops wearing a mask. It's so like, what would stop this guy just from shooting him right in the fucking face and like killing him so they can't talk. Yeah, blowing his little pig mask right off. It's so fucked up. So, but that's

I do like saying it.

I enter the Sansoria shop, Madonna's X walks out. He grabs his hand hard like so the squeeze is happening. So Carlos Leone is fucking machetes. The santor Ria guy is. Actually this is a drug done. The candles are No one is religious in this.

It's a great fat though, because it's like he can claim all this religious freedom that we're being persecuted because people don't like Santa Ria or whatever, and you can just do all your business that way.

Yeah, and they take him out, They put cuffs on him, they arrest his ass. He tries to bribe them. He goes look in the freezer. There's tons of cash in the freezer. You know, big mistake. These are not the cops that will do that. They drag his ass out of the witch shop and so we open back up at the office of doctor Elizabeth. I'll a vet and this, I would say, is like B. D. Wong before B. D. Wong, you know right, I'll a vet And she's like, you

You You're really scared? Why are you scared?

And he's like, I saw them behind the fence, machete in them. He says, they came to hurt me too, And like, do you think they went to scare him or kill him because they knew that he was in the closet.

I don't know, Like, great question. I think he's right to be scared. Yeah, because they probably know that he was there. I'm sure they were going to kill him. No one's trusting a seven year old to keep their mouth shut.

Yeah, Sam, he says, I saw them from behind the fence. Damn, that's so scary. Elias, who were you shooting at? And he goes, I was shooting at machete. I didn't shoot Carly, What's going to happen to me? So she asked, what do you think should happen to you? He starts drawing red all around him. It's red flames. He thinks he's going to hell he wants. He says, he thinks he deserves to burn in hell for what he did. So Cabot's waiting for the gray haired man in charge that

I hate this man so fucking much. You know, I don't need to have I don't even know why I need to stop to say it.

But like, are you fucking kidding me?

You're like, yeah, things are bad and sing sing, so let's just keep perpetuating the cycle.

What like it makes no sense.

Like he's like, he's not even listening to what she's saying, and it is fucked like people don't have childcare.

Options, you know.

Yeah, She screams, you are unbelievable. He goes, Nope, I'm second in command and I have Lewin's full support on this. He goes, Listen, people know what happened, and people want justice, and I need someone held responsible. He runs off to do a press conference and he goes, justice is gonna be served, YadA, YadA, and then he passes the buck to Cabot feeds.

Her to the media.

Wolves She looks shocked, so many questions thrown at her. A journalist asks, you know, it's a Latino boy that shot a black girl. If you don't act on this, you know it's gonna be racially tense in the neighborhood. You guys don't care about black lives. The gray Man, he's grinning, evil Rumpel, still skin evil, evil grin. She says that this was not racially motivated at all, and even to try to slant it that way is messed up.

That's our podcast. Hello.

It pulls away and we see that she is on the TV and Munch is like, damn, they young are out to dry. It's a lose lose half the city's gonna hate her no matter what. They feel bad for her. Staylor says, the boy has been expelled and the state has sent a tutor, and they're like, oh my god, don't let that get out.

People will be mad. He has a tutor.

Benson asked Craigan, is there anything they can do to help Cabot, and he's like, it's out of our hands. So Cabot is now with all of it, and she's like, oh my god, fuck, my career is on the line, and all of it's like okay, so is the little boy's future. And she says, I haven't forgotten about him, trust me. But she can't believe he did that.

To her, like you know, this lemony snake of guy, and she's and all of Vet's like, yeah, it's the old boys Club.

Why do you think I left here? And Cabot's like okay, but what would you do? Like can you help me out? What should I do? And she's like, I can't discuss particulars with you. I've been hired by the defense on retainer. And she's like, but I would put him in supervised counseling. Cabot says, that's not gonna satiate the public's bloodless. Every one needs to be punished, and she's like, actually, you can bring upon peace instead of punishment, and that makes

Cabbot goes to Olivet.

She brings up the drawing about the hell and how he thinks he belongs in hell, and she goes, yeah, that's like my point, Like he's still a kid. You know, the doctor knows kids that think they're going to hell for telling a fib These are still children. Cabbot asks, how do you explain his laps in judgment at the time he pulled the trigger, and she says it was mortal fear.

He was imitating behavior.

He saw these men swing guns around to scare people, and he wanted them to go away. He was imitating behavior without fully understanding it. And they cut to Carly's angry mom in the stands obviously, and it's really sad for her, and she says, he's seven years old, Like even if he understands what a core is or what a judge is, or right and wrong, it's as much as a seven year old can understand it. He is a tiny baby. So anyways, the judge looks him up

And then we go back to Carly's mom.

It's heartbreaking and you know, great facial acting, like to be able to act without any.

Lines to exhibit, like grief. I don't know. Tough job.

So Elias's parents look more shocked than relieved at first. The judge is like, excuse me, the people are with drawing charges and she's like, he lacked the mensraa to commit a crime and that's a legally blonde term, okay a, And she says, so we will not pursue the case. His parents cry with joy. Carly's mom looks uncomfortable and doesn't know how to feel. She's looking around and I

You know this isn't good. Craigan answers.

Finn Is like, wait, you come in, and he you come in to the bar, Craigan, I know you're sober. You come in for a milk bro or what? And he slowly hangs up the phone. And then we're just at a crime scene. The neighbors jumped in would have killed him if we hadn't been a block away. Benson and Stabler walk and the uniform cop says the killer is twelve, he was an outraged citizen and goes by the name TJ. And then so, yeah, Elias is fucking dead. Oh, it's so sad. It's this little baby on the ground.

Years ago.

It's like this show is always like ahead of time, behind its time, works in cycle, always relevant sometimes like it is just yeah, but like there goes a twelve year old kid that's gonna spend his life in jail.

Like it's horrible. It's like the whole thing is horrible.

And now two kids are dead, like and it's like dr violy wish this twelve year old did not do that.

Here's what I don't get though.

I don't really get why cab it can just be like give it up, Like, isn't she gonna get in trouble for her boss.

Everybody's like, let's go have a drink.

We did it, and it's like, but you dropped the case and your boss said you had to try the case.

Well she did. She she tried it and then decided.

I know, I just I still feel like I thought I thought there would be a line about her being like, well I'm gonna get my ass handed to me but whatever or what you know, like but instead it was all like you nailed it, let's go shots on me, and like it just I felt like she was still gonna get in trouble.

But you know, maybe mens Rea is like a more I don't know.

Also, having Carly's mom sort of speak to the crowd was like a good, like pr move on her part, So maybe that's like.

What they're talking about.

But yeah, but yeah, him bringing up the Gaza strip at this point in time this episode, you know, coming out while this everything's happening is really wild. But you know, keep your sadness, keep your sadness level at a high, because we'll be right back with the real story. And you know, just after a few messages from our sponsors, Okay, so we are back and this case is sad, you know,

Buell Elementary School.

And he was another six year old, Like, honestly, Elias is seven, This is another six year old. They're in first grade. The boy's father was in prison for parole violation. Previous arrests included possession of cocaine and burglary. His mom had was working two jobs, like a lot like this family, like trying to you know, make ends meet. But she was evicted from her place of living because she was only making one hundred and seventy five dollars a week

One article called it a crack house.

I don't know if that's like an appropriate term or what qualifies that, but that's what, you know, the kind of living situation he was in. This kid already had behavioral problems. This is like different from the episode Elias was like apparently this little angel, this kid had behavioral problems, was in detention all the time for swearing, hitting, flipping

He brought it to school along with a knife.

During passing time, he said to Kayla, I don't like you, before shooting her in front of a teacher and two dozen other students. She was shot once in the shoulder, but it like tore through her chest and hit a vital organ because she was shot a few minutes before ten am, and she was pronounced dead at the hospital by ten to nine am. So she here was this two thousand the beginning of the same year. This episode came out at the beginning of the year. Yeah, really horrible.

Police said they talked to the boy.

He did not cry, and when he was finished talking to the police, he just sat and drew pictures. Authorities, but this sounds like a boy that's seen a lot of bad shit, been through a lot of bad shit, and is hardened, you know, like, and probably also doesn't fully grasp what he's done. Authorities said the boy did

End quote.

He also commented, quote, he was treating it as if it a toy, because I don't think he had too many toys, which that seems like not I don't think that's relevant. But the boy was not charged with murder because of his age, and was released to the custody of an aunt and this case, and I believe with his sister and brother, he went with the aunt. This case obviously got a ton of attention because of how young the victim and the shooter were at the time.

Kids, you remember it is I don't remember this happening. No, I don't.

I was in college. Actually I was in college, and yeah, it's so bad, but I don't remember this happening. The boy being so young was also tragic. But also it's so tragic that nothing has changed, Like in this year, twenty twenty.

Three, a six year old just shot his teacher.

In Virginia, So it's like been twenty three years later, the same stuff as happening. The shooter's mother was named Tamarla Owens. She was originally charged with child neglect, but that case was eventually dismissed. Jamelle James was a nineteen year old man living in the home with the shooter's uncle, and he was the owner of the gun that killed Kayla. He pleaded no contest to involuntary manslaughter and he did get two to fifteen years and he served two and

End quote.

He met with congressional leaders the week after Kayla's death and asked how many people have to get killed before we do something? And it's like, oh, you have no idea, Like the numbers just going to keep growing and climbing and for the next two decades. And but a year later Clinton was out of office, George W. Bush was in some legislation called Kayla's Law, which had proposed a federal waiting period for firearms purchased at gun shows, had gone nowhere, And you know, we are where we are.

I mean, it didn't.

It doesn't have like the drug angle, but just the angle of children getting their hands on guns. And my friend actually who listens to the podcast, my lovely friend, she wrote me because we talked about this on another episode and like about how you talk to parents about how you find out when there's a gun in the home of like kids, because I I think I was talking about it on the podcast, being like how am

They're too young and out of control.

But when that starts to happen, you know, it's a good, good thing to ask, a necessary thing to ask. So we will be back in moments with our post mortem. All right, let's get into our post mortem. I mean, what a sad sad episode? This is really like I think I said get ready to get sad in one of our very first episodes, and a few people along the lines have asked us for that merch. And if you're gonna wear it watching any episode, it's this one. It really starts bad, continues to be bad, ends bad.

We should do that, though, I know that's good murder, that's a good idea. Yeah, well, time to get sad? You get ready to get sad? Ready, get ready to get sad?

Yeah?

Yeah, But like I mean, honestly, all in all, it's like just the gun sickness in our country is obviously horrific, and we can't let guns get into the hands of small children because this is what happens. And I don't know. I know that seems like pretty obvious, slow hanging fruit message for the show, but that's just how I feel that, Like, if you have a gun, it needs to be locked up, YadA YadA. I think everybody should have to take a fucking training course to use one. To be honest, we

The gun nuts are always in la la land with their arguments and what ifs, and it's like, at the end of the day, so easy.

A gun should be just like a car.

You want a license to have a gun, you got to take a test and practice and are written and then you can get it. And guess what if you have two duys or you beat your wife, you.

Don't get it. Yeah, you know what I mean.

Like, I don't understand how it's just like a free for all. It's because that people will be like, why would I have to get a test, Like, well, I've been shooting since I was too Then the test will be easy for you to pass. The test will be so easy. Get in there, take it. You don't even have to study you know how to use a gun so good. But yeah, it's never like, you know, it's crazy,

Oh if you if the thought of a pink gun has never crossed.

Your mind, you're a liar. You're a liar. There's no way.

Also, like the little gun from Men in Blacks showed you that little guns have lots of power. Yeah, but I never had mace.

I never had anything in New York. I never even had like a pointy key ring.

Yeah. I wish I did, honestly.

But someone was telling me that the keys between the fingers is actually a bad idea because if you punch, the key can like rip your skin in the middle and it actually like fucks up your fingers.

And I'm like, yeah, I'm sure a rapist taught us how to do it.

Yeah, but also like yeah, but also, don't you think rip your fingers?

Who cares?

At least you get like a key in somebody's eyeball or whatever.

There was more like we have to we have to read about it, okay, but.

It's like how it's like how like you're not supposed to like put your thumb inside the fist when you punch. You know you're gonna the rapists start giving us bad advice how to defend ourselves.

But I think bear mace I would do.

I'm into I think about a gun all the time because when the world, you know, who knows what's Sorry to bring this up, but the election is a nightmare and depending on what happens, Unfortunately a lot of people I don't agree with have guns, so like we need guns. I think about the end of the world and having a gun all the time. Yeah, I think about it.

I mean, I'm not a person that says, let's get rid of all the guns. I'm not, like, you know, I just like wanted to be regulated in some fucking kind of way. Jesus, I don't think anybody needs a R fifteen's But that's me.

Wait, this is like old news, and I guess this is more of an intro than a post mortem topic.

But you know, we had our holiday party. We saw Casey. Yeah, we saw Casey in person. We did I mostly corner Dave Holmes, oh yeah, and I played and I played bowl, I played bowling.

I bowled with him and his husband and I love them.

I someone else tried to come talk to me, and I was like, no, I have day Ulms here and I'm gonna stick with him.

I was deathly hungover for three days. I was telling Casey before you got on the zoom, like, oh my god, my problem is. I went to a kid playdate where I love the moms, and so we had a couple glasses of wine together and then I was like, okay, gotta go going to my holiday party. Went and like went to the holiday party as if I was sober, because I wasn't feeling anything. But those two glasses of

Sorry if that's a bad image. I just was like a beached whale.

And then I then I that night, I went out to dinner with people, did not drink. I had Shirley temples. I did Alisa, I had Shirley temples. Then I went the next night to a party, did not touch a bounce of alcohol, Like I just could not do it. And then finally on the fourth night when I had another holiday party, I had two glasses of wine the entire evening and I went to two parties. I was just like, I'm not fucking with alcohol right now.

Man.

I I don't, you know, I don't get hungover much, and when I do, it's the feeling stays in my system.

Way, yeah, because when you texted me, it was like quite early in the day and you had already watched two episodes of Bravo and I go, this isn't.

This isn't Kara what Yeah the morning because I kind of canceled everything I had to do and was like I'm gonna die.

But also I didn't make it to that one party that I wanted to go to. Were their celeb sidings. There were, but it wasn't as star studded as last year. I had a great time, but it was.

There was still our favorite bravohead Jerry O'Connell, but he was not there with his wife this time, and the instinct member that we saw last year, Lands Bass, was not in attendance. But it's like fun. I talk to Brian Safie for a while. You know, it's like fun. People are at it. But once again, if you're a Rona and Beverly person, I saw Beverly from across the party and had a perfect opportunity to go up and

But I was too I was like two. I felt weird. I just didn't do it. Yeah, so I got to go with your heart. It's tough. It's tough.

Yeah, some people have any effects on you and you can't really control it. I know because I Yeah, I was kind of waiting for something to happen naturally, but it's like it's a massive party that's not happening.

But oh sorry, I was gonna bring it back to our episode. No, I was gonna say universal child care for all. Yes, if there was universal child care, there would be so many problems that are that are happening. And I've been having veep on in the background of my life lately, and it's like she wanted to go for universal childcare and she couldn't, and it's like, yeah, what the fuck take care of the kid.

If you want everyone working take care of the kids, then like do something. Shit. Yeah, oh, I will say.

At the second party that I went to, I saw an La specific celebrity sighting that was one of the Nithia Raman, one of the city council women who I like love, and I was like, I.

Go, is that Nythiat?

Like she was like the biggest celeb at this party, and there were other celebs at this party like, it was so funny, and I met her husband, but I didn't meet her, but it was it was fun. Anyway, let's get into this week's what would Sister Peg Do? This is our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization a blog post.

It's so funny, I say blog post. It sounds so like two thousand and.

Seven article book something to give you more info about what we talked about today and this week, I wanted to just point you guys to the organization Mom's Demand Action for Gun Sense in America. I follow them on Instagram. They I support a lot of what they do. They are an American grassroots movement dedicated to passing stronger gun laws and closing legal loopholes for gun ownership. They also work with communities and business leaders to encourage a culture

And it's fucked, but it does remind me of stop or my mom will shoot, even though it's the opposite sentiment. Okay, so does that make sense? Not at all? Okay, you didn't react at all. No, I'm sorry I was. I made a joke that wasn't that good. But you also just didn't react at all.

And I'm sorry. I was looking down.

I didn't realize we had an ad to record, so I was looking down and seeing it.

I'm so sorry I was. I should be listening. I'm sorry. It's okay.

I just said it's not right, but it reminds me of stop or my mom will shoot, but it is the opposite sentiment.

But that's it. It's just so, that's all I thought of. But you were silent, so I obviously got in my fat Yeah, the office, it's.

Oh my god. Yeah, okay, okay, that's so funny. Okay, wait, did you already say next week's episode? Not at all?

Next week episode is dependent? Season eight, episode fourteen, dependent, kind of how your parents had you on their Texas for longer than you would like to admit. We'll see you guys next week. We're obsessed with all of you. But also tell a friend to listen.

Jesus Christ, let's go Yeah, let's get the fucking word out.

Guys. All right, we love you, See you next week.

That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Carolank and at glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina.

Chamberlain, and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Danielle Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

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