Asunder w/ Nestor Serrano

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

These episodes are based on.

These are our stories.

Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up On a SVU podcast.

I am Kara Klank and I'm Lisa Traeger. We talk SVU True Crime. We have celebrity guests, but up top we chit chat, we cat chat.

What's going on? Kara, not too much, Lisa.

I'm excited because you and I are getting back on the road very soon in June, and I just want to really quickly remind everybody that we're going to be in San Francisco at Cobbs on June eighth, out last time, guys, get your tickets. We had the best time in Diffrancisco. Then Tempe Improv in Tempe, Arizona on June fifteenth, Denver Comedy Works on June twenty fifth, and we've got a big LA show at the Bourbon Room. The Bourbon Room is a hot comedy spot. Now I'm seeing all these

And just to add the June sixteenth and seventeenth, I'll be in Phoenix, Arizona doing stand up, and then June twenty sixth, one night in Denver doing stand up.

You know you want to do a double feature of TMU and Lisa, So go get your tics. And that's all of our tickets are at. That's messed up live dot com for our show.

Amazing.

Yeah, and I feel like in Arizona we're gonna jump.

In a pool.

Yeah, oh my god.

You can also find us at a pool. Okay, wait, so a bunch of people have sent me this article. Did you hear about this woman who lives in Utah? She has three kids, her husband died and she wrote a children's book about grief and she has recently been charged with his murder.

Wow. Yeah, she gave him a fucking ventanyl cocktail. But how wasn't it not caught? Don't people know when something's vental? I know, it's really confusing. I don't understand.

Like basically she said she brought him a moscow mule in bed. Wow, and that like she went to go lie down with one of her kids who was like having a nightmare, and then she came back and he was cold to the touch, and a medical examiner said that he died from a ventinal overdose. He had five times the lethal dosage in his system. I don't know

And then she did it. So my question is, what did he do? What did he do? Why did she kill him? Like he must have done something. Well, she might have just wanted to write this book. Yeah, that's way.

She could have just write a book about like a worm trying to achieve his dreams or something like she had to write a book to kill her husband and write a book about it.

Wow, now you have to write a secret.

I think it's Munchausens. I think it's Munchausen by proxy vibes. Yeah, well no, because I maybe poisoning is in the air because I saw something online where a woman got poisoned to death in her smoothies.

He was the husband was putting something in the SMOOTHIEA.

Yeah, and there's the old like the old anti freeze thing, because anti freeze, like it used to taste like gatorade or like very sweet, so you would just like put it in gatorade or put in any sweet drink and like no name, but they change the taste of it.

Or something like that.

Crazy, right, But everyone just helped her because I feel if like a weird looking dude was like I need fentanyl for my they would be like, you're gonna murder your wife?

Yeah, they just let her go.

I mean she killed him in March of twenty twenty two, and then she just got arrested in.

May, so it's really she didn't even get to party too long. But in that quick of times, she wrote a book. I mean, yeah, she got it done.

She got it done. Women's done. Yeah, murder write a book? Listen?

Did I I didn't know any crime stuff this week, but I did watch two shows in full completion this weekend.

Ooh, what did you watch?

I watched Jewish Matchmaking on Netflix and then I watched Beef with Ali Wong.

Was I the one that told you about Jewish Matchmaking because I texted you about it?

Maybe I was already into it? No?

It.

Tova had it on her Insta story and I really didn't want to do anything, and I went, h a gift from God, and I put it on and I just sat all day. And I do like her. I like her style a little more than Seema from Mumbai. If we're comparing Indian and Jewish matchmaking. Wow, yeah, I think Seema is still a little too old world where it's like you.

Don't get everything you want.

Yeah, I gotta settle, you know, Like and this one seems a little more like open to meeting the people where they are. But one guy, I mean one guy, it was just like he needed blue eyes. It's just I don't know. But the girl was too good for it. I mean it was great.

I know.

I'm honestly pissed. I don't have a season two immediately. That's my I know, smatch it. But Beef is incredible. That one of the best shows I've ever seen in my life. The acting is insane. Give Ali Wong an oscar for a TV show, that's how I feel.

I really want to watch it. She looks so good.

I didn't I didn't know she was that phenomenal. I mean, it is insane. It's so good.

I gotta watch it. Yeah, and wait, there is an s vu alum in it. Who's Calvin's mom Maria Bello? Yeah, she's in it. She's in it?

Yea.

Yeah, God we're sick. Who's Calvin's mom Maria Bella? Like I knew it in two seconds.

Amazing. No, Beef it's like wild.

And I watched Tricksy and Katia watch it on YouTube first, and so I was talking to a friend yesterday about it and he was like talking about the huge cliffhanger, like the cliffhanger is the huge moments that shocked him. But I already knew them going into it, and I was still on the edge of my seat terror, like, like, what's gonna happen next?

It was it's like phenomenal. Is it like ten episodes?

Yeah, because honestly, every towards the end every episode, I was like, well, that's the last episode and then there was more. It was like, oh, I stayed up all night. I stayed up all night. Oh my god, you're like me and my Damages era. Yeah, Damages I never got into even though I'm a Glenn Close fan.

Oh you should watch it.

It's not too late. It's so fucking good. Oh my god. I was obsessed. What is it? Is it politican? What's damages?

It's lawyers high high like class action like high level lawyers, but it's it's the first thing I ever saw Rose Byrne in so like and she's like this young lawyer coming to it and Glenn close is like the fucking It's got a bit of a House of Cards vibe, you know, like masterminding and like evil that you can't even comprehend, like of people doing things for their own gain, and like it's wild, but I love it so much.

Oh wait, how was how was the strike yesterday? How? Oh ye striking?

I I am not a member of the Writer's Guild of America. I would like to be, and my husband is a member. And we went to strike for what they're very fair demands that they're asking for of these studios. And we went to Netflix and it was kind of a great social event. I saw my friend from Drag Race that I haven't seen in a long time.

I saw like just.

A bunch of like a girl that I sort of know that I walked with her for a long time in the picket line and we talked about her last experience on her show and it was cool.

Oh, Michael McKean was there. You know who he is.

He's like in a million things, like he's in Better Call Saul, and like he's in Spinal Tap and like all this stuff. And he's married to a net O'Toole who's like another like well, known actress. I was picketing with my friend and he just goes to her because you walk by each other, and he just like walked by and went, I loved you in it, thank you, and like kept walking because she's in the original it. Like he was just saying that movie like terrified him

But well, guess what, so I look up this Michael McKean. Yeah, guess what he's been in SVU? Oh wait what SVU has he been in? Okay, so it's from twenty each Well Father's Shadow Season thirteen, episode thirteen, spooky, but I I would have to click on it because that's oh, it's with the like the ginger boy from Shameless is in it too.

He's a It's it's the it's the one with the country singer in it too.

Isn't it Lambert? Yeah? Is it not?

The Maranda Lambert episode. Isn't he like to be a producer?

Yeah? Maria Lambert's in this one.

Yeah, it's like a fame situation where he's like making people like take off their clothes or whatever for auditions and stuff, right, like, yeah, totally. Oh my gosh, wow, get him when I see him on the picket line again.

Strike to the pod. Yeah, oh my god. Wow.

Anyway, it was really cool, and I hope everybody that's listening looks into like what the WGA is fighting for, because honestly, you're talking about Beef being such a good show, Like shows like this are not going to exist. If they start doing rooms of like three people and a com and a fucking AI computer robot writing television shows, they're not going to be good anymore. And they're just trying to kind of like cut corners and basically get

So that was fun, and we're gonna get this show on the road. Yeah, guys, don't go anywhere. We got a good one all right.

Today we are doing Asunder. We're taking it back to season two, episode seven, Lives Got Spiky Hair. This episode came out December one of two thousand, So we're in a uh.

Honestly the best year. If I can go back to two thousand, I would love it.

Yeah, wait, what was Oh two thousand was a great year for me. I was on my semester abroad in Rome. I had the time of my life.

Well, no, I was in high school. I wouldn't want to go back to being in high school. But I just meet in terms of like Britney Spears, yes thereteen nine eleven. Yeah, we just wanted to like dance. Well, I was young. I don't know. I don't know why I said that. I regret it. I don't have a strong case.

I don't know.

I think it was like a lot of things you like are from that time period, because a lot of like your musical tastes and the things that you like develop at that time of your life.

So it makes sense.

Yeah, I just it's so funny to me that like when I was like turning twenty in Rome like drink it.

You were thirteen. Like it's so crazy to me.

I know now, like age differences doesn't matter, but I'm like, imagine when I was like twenty and I like ran across you. It was like, I'm gonna have a podcast with this thirteen year old one day. But she seems really fun. Yeah, you could have made money babysitting me. Yeah, you would not have listened to me, I'm sure. So

I think that might be about marriage.

So that's probably where it comes from with this episode, which is wild. Okay, so we're covering this episode and it's crazy because it opens on a guy watching an episode of Jerry Springer and as of this taping, Jerry Springer just passed away like last week.

So yeah, and what I saw a lot less like Posts than I imagined. It was like the least of any celebrity I've ever seen.

I only saw a couple posts.

Was it like a weekend or was it like or was something else overshadowing it?

Like I was surprised too. It didn't get like someone just told.

Like my husband told me, and then I don't remember anything else because we all grew up on him.

Yeah.

I went to go see Ringmaster in the theater, and I remember it was one of the first movies I ever went to where we me and my best friend were alone in the theater.

We were like this rules.

We were just like talking and like, you know, having fun during the movie because we could. But yeah, I paid money to see that man's movie. Like, yeah, nobody really talked about it. I guess in the influencer chart that's in New York Magazine, he's considered lowbrow and terrible. I get, you know, or you know, like, I don't know if people appreciate what he brought to the culture.

I saw one meme where it was like that he would just have like a Klukux Clan dude and a black dude just fistfighting, and then his final words would be like we all got to get along and give each other a chance.

It's like the final thought, the final thought, that's where our post mortem comes from.

So we got to give that to Jerry's Springer.

Our final thought, our post mortem of our podcast is basically a Jerry Springer final thought.

But the one that I remember that will never leave my brain is it was a couple and they love puking on each other.

Oh my god.

And the man came out and puked like green slime. It didn't look like it looked like.

Ghostbusters green ecdoplasm, but like opaque slot. It just was like it looked but he puked all over her and I just.

Right, I'm sure they gave him some kind of thing.

Yeah, it didn't look like a like we know what puke looks like.

And it was just way more smooth. We sure do, because my son just puked in the night last night. So the crazy thing is he doesn't wake up. He just isn't that scary? Yeah, No, he he just was. I could hear him coughing, and so I went there to check on him and he had thrown up like it was dropped like it had been hours before.

I don't know.

It's terrible. Okay, So this we open on the sky. Let's go from puke to domestic violence, puke to put We're going from puke back to Springer. So he's watching an episode called Wild Weddings, uh, and like a woman comes out in a bridal dress and immediately starts fighting with a man. So that's definitely a cursor, like a foreshadowing of the rest of the episode. And then he hears real life Springer episode coming through the wall. He hears the voices of a man and a woman screaming

Sound effect but it's bunny. Yeah.

Yeah, the sound effect is like bunk, like it's bad, and he's like grabs his neck and then he turns around and his face is furious. So he runs after her. She looks scared. She starts running back up into the building. He catches her, grabs her by the hair, and starts shoving her back in the building. They disappear into the building and all we hear is a scream from her when we cut to the svu's squad room.

And I don't know if we want to touch on this now or wait till later, But this guy's in another SVU.

Yes, yeah, oh, I have a little.

Pedof uh, well, not really a PEDOPHI I don't know how to I don't know.

What he well, I'll tell you both of them. I'll tell you both of them. The actress is Amy Carlson. She's a regular on Blue Bloods for like a million apps, and she was actually a regular on the failed Law and Order Trial by Jury.

She was like on all the episodes of that.

SO and then the man is played by Nestor Serrano, who was also in the episode called Obscene, which you might remember as the Lewis Black Dana Delaney episode. But he marries a sixteen year old child star of the show. He is directing SO, but he's also in a ton of other stuff like movies, TV, Like you've seen him the man works, so though, that's our two, our two

Be happy to talk to anyone with half a brain.

So immediately Munch and this woman are at odds and she hates Munch from the jump. Munch says, there's five stages of grief, try not to go through all of them at once, and she goes cute and then she tells much I don't need SOP explained, which is standard operating procedure. She goes, I don't need SOP explained, I don't need a rape kit, and I don't need you to hold my hand.

So she's pissed and why are you there?

Yeah, she obviously knows cop stuff, right, So Munch is like, listen, prior consensual sex does not matter. It doesn't matter if you're still in a relationship with this person. And then she admits this is my husband, the person who assaulted me. And Munch is like, let's go to the doctor and then give us an address and we'll go pick up your husband right now. And she looks conflicted, and then she admits he's a cop. His name is Sergeant Lloyd Andrews.

So in yeah, in the squad room.

Now everyone's filing into Daddy Craigan's office and Craigan turns to Jeffreys.

She's still hanging around.

I thought she was gone by the beginning of this season, but she's still around, and Craigan goes care to join us, and Jeffries is like super sarcastic and goes, I'd love to, but I have all these reports to file and coffee to make because she's been put on desk duty since.

She saw him like at a bar and ended up going home with him.

So they think she's engaging in this like self destructive behavior. She's been put on desk duty and taken out of the field. Craigan walks over and is like, I want you on my team, but only if you want to be here, and she's like, it's nice to be wanted. She is a sarcasm queen, and then she's like, gotta go. These aren't going to file themselves, and Craigan looks like kind of stung, and so now we're in his office. Finn explains that Patricia Andrews, who is our blondie woman,

Munch and Live is like not good at all.

Yeah, I actually just got into a healthy debate. It wasn't really like it didn't get dark or anything with someone who's like, but what is a wifely duty? Because I think that's all coming back on like Instagram and explore bait like it.

Because a black guy that also that, that gross right wing guy Stephen Crowder was like yelling at his wife for not being like not fulfilling her wifely duties, and I feel like everyone's been talking about that.

And then I just went off and I was like, well, what are the husband duties? I'm like, no one is like fixing gutters and building spice racks.

Like the men have flopped.

The men are not bringing any husband duties to the table.

And then the women don't want to fuck the men.

And it's sand of all, sorry to bring him up again, but it's like Arianna is telling you I need an emotional collection, I'm not really attracted to you right now, and he's just in a corner being like shit out, fuck me, and it's like, yeah, you're al Bundy, Like you're not doing the dishes, you're not cleaning, you're not looking hot, you're not taking care of the kids.

And then you want someone to want to fuck you. That seems crazy. If you want someone to fuck you, you gotta spice it up. You got to make them want to face. It doesn't even need to be that spicy.

You just need to give like basic connection, take a shower life.

Yeah, oh god.

But it's just like dudes like not being like not getting their wives wet and demanding sex while not like, yeah, they don't want to fuck you, you're not doing your husband duties.

There's a lot more of that shit in this episode, as you know, and it's really gross, like like, well, wait, what was them I the asshole? You were about to bring up? Oh, I was just gonna say there was a fucking Am I the asshole?

It's like, am I the us? Well?

I only shower once every two or three weeks. I don't think I smell, but people keep telling me I do. And I was like men are men are out? Forget it? Like we're done with you guys, Like I can't. Like everybody was like bro take a shower like it was incredible.

It was incredible.

Well because people are now letting you know you that you smell. Yeah, yeah, I just thought maybe you'd seen that. Now I get this. I get this. Ask Aubrey Instagram where she just gets good and I the assholes and they're always the most inflammatory ones.

And so those are the ones I'm seeing and I don't follow her.

They're just in my feed constantly on Twitter and stuff, which I have to.

Get off of because it's a fucking nightmare.

But anyway, so Live is like to Munch, She's like, hey, dude, wife is property when in nineteen.

Eighty or the idea that you want to fuck someone who's not into it that's sick in itself.

That they just have to give it to you, like and that would be fow Is that some way? Yes? How is that enjoyable at all? It's wild?

Well, so you know my new favorite podcast, Stradio Lab I can't stop talking about. Did I already talk about the Aaron Jackson episode is about like weaponizing oral sex is very straight to him. They were saying they're a bunch of gay dudes and they're like, yeah, we will

Like I just you know how I've been watching I've been watching The Sopranos one episode at a time on ELSA. There's a fucking episode of The Sopranos where one of the big guys is good at eating pussy and they fucking his girlfriend tells a couple of friends and the word gets out and he fucking throws a cream pie in her face and breaks up with her because everybody found out he was good at going down on her, Like, oh my god.

So it's just this funny episode of but they were just like I don't get it, Like if you know, oh, your girl hates it, but that's part of it for you. It's just like what is straight culture? Just like extradio, open your legs and I don't care if you hate it, like and then you deny.

You guys are freaks. It's just all so layered and twisted.

I don't I don't even know, but we I mean, we've were you know, SVU afficionados. And even the episodes where it's like sex like trafficked women that are chained to a bed, that are drugged up, like guys.

Are going to Kijuana and paying for.

It, it's like, yea great, I don't understand the like, I guess the misery is part of it for him.

Yeah, well it is. I think we've found that the misery is the power. It is part of it. Yeah for sure.

Yeah.

But another another nice lesson from THISVU universe.

Yes, so live is like yelling at munch and is like, dude,

Thought you were about to say pickleball, and I was like, get the fuck out.

Of here, No, stop it.

I don't think pickleball existed in two thousand, even though now it's the talk of a goddamn town. Munch says he wants to hear her side of the story again and she's like why, and he's like, you better get used to telling your story. And she asks Finn if he's married, and he says no, ma'am. And then she goes to Munch, I know you're not. No one would have you, and I love that, and then he goes,

It's detectives Santiago and.

Howard, and they're IAB clearly, and one goes to shake Craigan's hand and he just leaves him hanging, and it's so good. He's just like, can I help you? And Craigan's like, what's up? Is it my case or is it yours? And Howard's like, we don't do sex crimes. So Craigan's like, cool, then get the hell out of here, and Howard's like, we get you.

Why you hate us?

IAB brought down your mentor, and I would hate us too, And apparently this is something that happened on a Law and Order episode called The Blue Wall where IAB took down Peter O'Farrell and Craigan was involved in that.

So this guy goes, listen, IAB's different.

Now we've changed, and Craigan's like borrowing some sarcasm from Jeffreys and goes, wow, that's comforting.

And then the other guy goes.

We're not here to grind your wheat. I don't know what that. That's not a good saying, and farming culture. Farm culture always gets in there. They go, we just want SVU to take it slow at this case. You know, use kid gloves, let's have some finesse and Craigan's like, since when does iab care about finesse? And then these two dickheads reveal their true asshole nature and they go, we marry them just so we can have sex available.

How do you rape a wife?

Keep in mind the law, Like the law changed saying that marital rape is real sixteen years earlier, and these fucking idiots are still like, how is that even possible? Like it's your wife, She's just a fucking piece of meat. And Craigan is like, oh my god, like you can't even believe these guys. So they cut to Live exiting a bodega with coffees for her and Elliott and Stabler fills her in that there's been four domestic disturbance complaints at the Andrews address, but no arrests. Same two unis

Stabler because it.

Sure is how Ain and mine and they admit that sergeant his wife fight loud and hard. It blows hot and then it's over and the wife likes to throw shit. So that's what they get from this conversation with these guys. Stabler's now walking and talking with Craigan and Craigan's like, break it down for me, like how real is this whole thing? And Stabler's like it's hard to say. They break up to makeup. She's a bruiser, he might be

Rep and he's going to turn him into a deaf mute.

And he's like, well, I just want to get a read on this guy before he gets wise to this whole thing, and so he basically tells Sabler, you can go do some unofficial digging, like not a full interview, but whatever.

So Stabler shows up.

At the pickup basketball game and he's got a tank top on and he's ready to dunk, and it's really funny. One of the guys that is playing the game is Detective Danny Tatum, and we've seen him before. He's in that episode Countdown where, you know, it's like the Jim Gaffigan episode where where the little girls and the parties and everything, and he's like, I just remember in that episode then being like.

Oh, you think we messed up back in Queens, Like you know, oh, yeah, I do love Countdown.

I thought it was one of the ones that I hate where it's like an old guy is dying and he's like, you need to solve the case.

Yes, I die.

That's why I went, Yeah, we have twenty four hours before the execution. We got to find out that last victim's location. Yeah, I hate those, but I love Countdown. Candy corn Yeah that was a Candy Correy episode.

Yeah, I take my Yeah.

So this guy has been in a few episodes and he's like a transfer from Queen's Maybe SVU to Manhattan Homicide. So Elliott, like I said, tanked up ready to shoot hoops. He introduces himself like he's not lying who he is. He says he's Elliot, Stabler's he's SVU and they're like, oh tough gig. I heard they rotate you guys out every two years, and it's like, lol, half of them have been in there for over two decades.

And then Andrews who is Lloyd?

Andrew's the the main like you know, alleged rapist here is like, oh live, victims are needy.

It takes a strong cop to suck it up.

And so he's kind of complimenting Stabler here, and then they start playing Stabler's all over this guy Tatum, and then Tatum shoves Stabler and he's like what the fuck and the guy's like, no files on the black top, bitch, you can't take it. It's like stupid male posturing. Then they start again Stabler's all over this guy, and Tatum just elbows him right in the nose and it's a big smack sound effect like a punch. So Stabler goes, what did I miss? And like he's truly bleeding out

And then they get a phone call.

Units are at the Andrews house responding to a report of assault with a deadly weapon.

So now we're at their house.

Cops are in the street, like this is like a huge just like a block party, Like everyone's in the street, the cops, the couple's fighting. There's an ambulance with Andrews is in the back, Lloyd is in the back. His wife, Patricia is being held back by a cop and she's threatening to cut her husband's big heart out and he's in an ambulance getting a hand injury treated to and he calls her. He's like, shut up, you stupid bitch,

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

So liv takes over as a cop is like wrestling Patricia to the ground and she's like, I got it, I got it, like you know, and she calms her down and screams why isn't he in jail? And Stabler goes to Lloyd and says he needs to come down to the station and answer questions, and he goes, I need a lawyer. And so now Craigan is getting yelled out by the two IAB dudes.

They're like, you.

Call this finesse and then he's like, I'm fielding calls about authorizing an undercover Op? What what kind of Mickey mouse Club is this? It's like the undercover op where he played himself and went to play basketball hardly, And Craigan goes, see, I actually hate that little black rodent talking about Mickey mouse Club. He goes, I'm more of a dick tracy guy. You get a decoder ring and everything. I mean, like, the writing in this episode is so funny,

We're going back and forth here now in one room.

Lloyd is like, I won't talk without my lawyer, and they go okay, bye, and then he goes, well, on second thought, why don't we just.

Put this all to bed so we can get back to work. That would be me. I would be scared. That would be me.

Yeah, Like after they make you wait an hour, you're like final talk, I gotta go.

I just want to talk. But no, I think.

I think after this podcast, I know if anything, it's lawyer.

Got lawyer for that lawyer? Yeah, I would not say yeah, just lawyer. So they're like, your wife already told us what happened. Why don't you tell us you know? And he goes, what did you? What did she say? And he goes, she said you raped her, and Stabler goes, before you deny it, let's go through the whole sequence of events, and Lloyd goes, fine, I've been working midnights for a while.

I'm tired. I get home.

She starts laying into me about having a side piece, and they're like do you and he goes, yeah, so so why would she They're like, so why would she accuse you of rape? And he goes, it doesn't take a genius and he continues like it's always something with her. I don't love her, I don't or I smother her too much. You figure it out because she's driving me nuts.

I thought he was in jail. You said you would arrest him. What happened?

And then back to Lloyd and he goes, they were fighting, tempers were hot. He walked away, and that's when she threw this pan at him. They go back and forth between calling this a pan and a pot. It's a pan, but they call it a pot sometimes. He brought her in and started packing her bags and he's like, the lease is under my name and I wasn't gonna let her run me out of my house. And then she started screaming and threatening him with kitchen utensils, and then

He says, I wouldn't do that.

I know I could hurt her, and he's like, besides, I'm the one with the battle scars and lives, like, but you do know how to do her without leaving a mark, right, quoting what he just said like an hour earlier on the street. So now Craigan and Cabot are watching through the glass and Cabot's like, cut him loose, and Craigan's like, that sends a message that if a woman is raped by her husband, she better get beat up too, and Cabot's like, what do you want me

Walk him.

So now Craigan goes to the squad room and that asshole Tatum, the one who elbowed Stabler in the face, he's with a bunch of other guys and they show up to help their buddy because they're all pals and none of them ever does anything wrong, and Andrew's whole squad is like standing there, and so the guy goes, are you arresting my sergeant? And Craigan's like, none of your business, bro, And then this motherfucker starts stepping to Cragan like he's not a captain, and it's like, I don't know.

Rank means a lot with these.

Guys, Like you can't talk to a captain like this, and he goes, we watch out for each other. Maybe you forgot that riding a desk and Craigan's like, I enforce the law and the only thing I ride are humps that break it. And then Stabler walks in with live and Tatum looks at Stabler and goes feeling wood for my buddy. What I had to put the subtitles on. I was like, what is going on? I guess he's like, do you have a boner fruit? Like getting my friend

And I'm like, ma'am, I beg to differ.

This is not the time for you to smoking while you're in the middle of a assault, charred by your husband who raped you. I think you can smoke away, my dear get you can get quit later. And Munch is like, it's a bad habit, but some habits are worse. My wife has some bad ones. And she's like, I thought you weren't married, and he's like, he never said

Right here.

He says, don it's not personal. She didn't name you in her suit. She just wants back in the field. And Craigan's like, well that's a problem, sir, and we can't fold on the issue, So talk to her as a friend. If that doesn't work, Craigan says, he goes, make it go away, Captain. So all these cops in this episode are just trying to get SVU to make shit go away. So Munch now is walking into Cabot's office and goes, guess who just paid Patricia's bail?

Her husband Lloyd. He's like, I smell a recan't now.

Cabot wants to charge him because she's like, he had her arrested then paid her bail.

That looks suspicious.

I can sell that, And Munch goes, I didn't know women got into wizzing contests? Can you not say piss on NBC? Because whizzy contests doesn't sound as good as pissing contest?

Oh, you're right, but was is more like fantastical. It's like such a silly word. It's like when you pee from a cloud or something. Yeah, it would be a good word. All word is it? Whiz z.

W h I z z I n G is whizzing? I think whiz might be whiz. But my dad used to say that to us all the time. He'd go, can you guys go take a whiz? Everybody go take a whiz? Like before we would get into a car on a car trip, and I would say to my mom, make him stop saying that it's disgusting, Like I didn't want to hear him say go take a whiz like I felt. I was like, you're treating me like I have a penis and I don't like it. But anyway, I didn't know whiz was gender. It's not in my

And she goes Our friend Lauren has this horrific story, not horrific, it's lol, but that you know, her parents got her a burbery scarf and we're like it's real, and she's like, are you sure it's real?

And we're like it's real.

And then she went to school and everyone's like it's fake and it was fae and she was just like, why wouldn't you just tell me it was fake? You guys lied to me. I mean yeah. So it was like a big issue for her and her child.

I had a fake one too. I had a fake scarf too. Yeah.

That was a hot time for that pattern. Oh poor baby. So Kevi, it's like, well then, why did you change your mind? Like what's going on? And she's like, my husband could go to jail for a misunderstanding, a petty marital spat.

I can't live with that.

And Mounch's like, this is a real change of tune after singing the quote he raped me song to anyone who would listen, and she's like, I was mad. And then they go does this have to do with him dropping the assault charge? And she's like he's a good guy and they're like, you said he was an arrogant jackass who put you in a choke hold and took what he wanted.

And she goes, he apologized for that.

And she's like, all I ever wanted for him to do was put himself in my place. This is like what you're talking about, Like women just want men to like listen, to them, kind of empathize with them, have like more of an emotional connection, not like what Sandoval did in that episode after Arianna lost her dad and goes, I know, we keep bringing this back to vander Pump, but it is relevant. She lost her dad and she's like, I just really need you here with me right now.

Well, even this current season, her grandmother just died and he didn't go with her to Florida, like he stayed to continue an affair.

Yeah, and go get sandwiches with Schwartz.

It's just it just seems like women are constantly changing and doing things to please what men want, and they are unwilling to be like, oh needs are equal to mine. Yeah, listen, have I gotten involved in the comments on the Shade Room?

I have, And.

You know, whatever your views on equality about women and men are like to me, I was writing, I was like that's irrelevant.

I'm like, it doesn't matter.

If you think they're equal, but like both people get to feel good. Yeah, I just like, it just seems so weird that like one person in a partnership's feelings are just irrelevant to all decision making.

It just I get it.

This is a woman who is in an abusive relationship. She's just found out she can't have children pretty recently, and her husband is cheating on her and gaslighting the fuck out of her saying.

That he's not and he's a police officer. Yeah.

Yeah, so like I'm on her side kind of no matter what. Like, I know, we didn't see what happened, but she's she's got my vote, and she's like all I ever wanted him to do is put himself in my place. He's never said I'm sorry about anything, and that's like a huge trigger for me. People that don't say I'm sorry. I have a parent who does that, and I really fucking hate it. I say sorry to

I didn't push her into a table. And I go, I'm.

Sorry if I did that, I didn't mean to, you know, like I'm just like apologizing constantly so that they know that apologizing is like something that doesn't mean you're weak or like less than you know, sorry, I'm going off on a personal tangent about a pin.

You know, I am too constantly like I forget like some yeah, I forget that this is the case.

She did throw the frying pan. JK. Yes, I don't know.

She did throw the frying pant and he and violence

I love him.

Munch is pissed and he's like, he admits it and you re can't. And Munch says, that's not love, that's psycho and she says, I'm not crazy enough to lose my husband because you want to believe in me. Now she leaves. I mean, she's giving much shit because he wasn't originally, like you know. On her side, Cabot's like, I can charge her with false police report, but I want to charge her with felony assault to force her

They arrest Lloyd.

They give him the courtesy of letting him step outside, not cuffing him in front of all of his and reading him his rights in front of all of his guys. He surrenders his gun, his dump dumb Tatum, tries to yell at them and lives like, can you get out of my way? Pig, thank you, and then that's the end of act three. At the top of Act four, Cabot walks into court as they're reading the charges against Lloyd, rape in the first degree, sexual misconduct in the first

She still feels the way she did before.

And then she admits to the defense attorney that she recanted and that a deal is in place for her testimony in the assault charge. And the guy goes, so, then why are we here? Objection withdrawn? He does one of those little things where the judge heard it even though it was like objected to and withdrawn. Cabot goes, didn't you drop the rape charges after your husband dropped the charges against you? And Patricia goes, that's not how it was, you, bitch. It's really great. That's a great moment.

How is it your fault?

He admits to not being the best husband, cheating, not coming home, being a huge fucking gas slader. The defense attorney goes, I wouldn't either about coming home.

And it's like, fuck you, dude. He just admitted he's a bad husband.

And you're like, who would come home to this broad, this nagging ball and chain.

It's like, he's a bad husband. What are you talking about?

Before Cabot can even object, he withdraws like she goes to take a breath to object, and he's like, withdrawn like he knows, and he asks, did you force your wife? Put her in a choke hold? Use excessive force? He says, no to all of it. Why would she accuse you? Then he says, I promised to cut off a year long relationship and I didn't and she found out and I've since stopped seeing her.

I love my wife.

And he says, why would you apologize for a rape if you didn't do it? And he goes, she can't let anything go. She's got to be right. I would just rather lie than fight about it. I just want some peace, that's all any husband wants. It's like men are so fucking lame. And then it's Cabot's turn and she goes, didn't you tell her that you could do

Or didn't you?

And then he screams that Heifer told me she was gonna torch me. What the hell was I supposed to say? And she goes that Heifer is supposed to be the woman that you love. Boom does not look good. Cabot walks down back to her chair like she's kind of nailed him. So now this defense attorney, the guy with the hanky, comes back with his tail between his legs to Cabot and he goes sexual misconduct, and he's out

And it's like Jesus, like you're just.

Saying that out loud, Like I get serious at my husband and I'm never like I would like to kill him, you know, I don't have never said that to anyone, And Cabbot.

Goes, also, it's added, like when you do have a gun and you do have strength, yes, and you're a police officer, like saying I want to kill you doesn't just seem like Kuyperbley or in the moment, like it when you're washing your bullets right there's your gun right out, the threat seems more real to me. Yeah, for sure, And Cabot goes, well, if she dies, you've got a problem, Like you just admitted to me that you want to kill your fucking wife sometimes. But anyway, she goes, defelony's

And the guy goes, yeah, but he'll be a sex offender, Like that's not going to happen, and she's like, okay, bye, and he steals the pickle off of her lunch plate, takes a bite, and walks out. The audacity, the gall the gumption. So now we're back to Craigan dealing with the Jeffrey situation. He has called her into his office and he's like, this isn't anything official, it's just you and me, and he's like, have you thought about this?

She's like, oh, is this about my lawsuit?

And he's like have you thought about like this completely, like all the politics of it, the stink it's going to leave on you, And she's like, the only thing on my mind is the presumptuous attitude about my private life. Back to you know everything that came out in that psychoval that I explained earlier, and he's like, this unit isn't like other units. You know that, And she's like, well, when it hit the all I know is that when

Well, because I wonder if at this point in the season, Ice even knows he's gonna be a regular forever, yeah.

There forever, like fully, yeah, who knows? But thanks for sticking with me on that one, guys. I know is a lot of dialogue, Like there's not a lot of like action in this one. It's a lot of like he said, she said, because I think that they thought in the year two thousand, they were like, let's do this really, like there is another episode if he said, she said, the Shannon Sawsiman one that they've done. But I think here they're trying to do it first and like, well, what what what is true?

Like who knows?

It's like, but now I don't know through the through the lens of like everything we've learned about domestic violence in the past, like twenty something years since this episode aired. I'm like, no, this woman is in an abusive relationship.

We got to get her out of there. But I think the show thinks they're they're presenting some kind of like who knows, could be anyone kind of argument, you know.

So anyway, we'll be right back after these messages with Lisa taking us through some true crimes, we.

Are back, and this is the Dennis White domestic violence case. What is wild about this is like this guy did have Like we'll get into all of it. I'm just curious in terms of how connected to us soun because this stuff happened in nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety nine with this man, but he is a police officer and nothing, he was never charged, convicted, There was never

In ninety nine and then there was no new.

In two thousand, but there's no articles or new It was like internal investigations. It wasn't like the Boston Globe was like police, you know, nothing ever happened. He was found, iab never found anything. Oh so I am just very curious. So maybe we'll talk to Neil Baert when it comes back find out how they got to that. Yeah, figured all this out. But it is very interesting in terms of the if we can say he said, she said

It never because it never went anywhere.

I guess he got it flushed the way that the ib guys wanted to do this.

Yeah, but they keep even tricking women where it's like even an accusation can ruin a man's life, right, And it's like, I just I've never seen an example ever. I've never seen an example of a man losing everything with an accusation.

Ever.

Yeah, I mean Johnny Depp lost one movie role. Yeah, he still got to do perfume ads. I mean the Jonathan Major stuff that's happening right now. Oh yeah, I guess race does play a huge part. And this is a black man in this Dennis White as a blacks White as a black man. Okay, yeah, okay. So he becomes police commissioner and then allegations from years ago come up and he was.

Put on pause after put me on pause.

So that's from Bravo for those who don't know, welly Kara started cackling.

Sorry, but no, I put it there on purpose.

But just in case people are confused, why it brings us so much joy, it's that. But he was only the Boston Police Commissioner for two days before he was kicked to the curb on pause, and he had worked in the police department for thirty two years. So he was a thirty two year veteran of the force, and this was all unearthed and brought to light by the Boston Globe who inquired about allegations of domestic violence from nineteen ninety nine with his former wife. And this was

And the Boston Globe who famously did Spotlight, like what Spotlight was based on what the Catholic Church like, they are very good at, like this investigative kind of like expose stuff.

Wow, I didn't put that together in my head.

So I think, like them going after the police department, the police department better be fucking like worried because they find shit.

Yeah.

I never watched Spotlight, but I remember I went to like a friend's Oscar party and all the foods were like based on the movies. People like to do that, And for Spotlight, it was fruity pebble rice, crispy treats in the shape of crosses. Oh, my God, so shout out, shout out to that fun party. In quotes, this is bigger than the administration's failure to properly vet a candidate

Oh.

Interesting, So there's it's different because there's not the same power dynamic necessary. I mean, there probably is still a power dynamic, but not the same civilian versus copp as in the show.

Yeah, and the couple were high school sweethearts. They married in nineteen eighty one, and then they had two daughters together. They separated in nineteen ninety five divorced in nineteen ninety nine, but that divorce was not finalized until January two thousand

So cool guy, calm chill.

So he said he was just joking about shooting his family, and we need to get a sense of humor. White was never charged, and he denied, denied, denied, but he did admit that him and his wife fought a bunch and it's sometimes escalated to physical contact by both parties. But it's like, you just denied hitting your wife, but then you just admitted that it got physical, So there's

So I don't really trust this guy.

His daughter and her official Affidavid did say that her mother was physically abusive to her and her father, and that one time she punched her so hard that she had trouble breathing, and that she threw a lamp in a TV at her husband. The daughter also said the mom criticized her for not cleaning the house good or quickly enough, which is.

Funny to me.

I know it's not funny, but it's just like I don't want to clean either. But she did detail a lot of emotional and physical abuse at the hands of her mother. The mother admitted again WBUR that she did discipline and spank her daughter.

So I don't know.

The mom does admit again to this NPR channel that neither of them are innocent in the relationship, but she believes that he should not be able to keep his job, so she has come forward and said we both suck. He I think is in full denial of anything. Like throughout this all you'll see it's just like an excuse for everything, a denial of everything, no responsibility in any way. You could at least be like, yeah, maybe I shouldn't have threatened to shoot my daughter, you know what I mean?

But yet you're a hero.

Like I don't get it, Like you can't say that your heroes and you demand respect and then constantly be scared and say self defense against children.

It doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, you can't have both.

Are you a scared little sissy with a gun under your pillow threatening your niece and daughter? Or you should be police commissioner and you're a leader and a hero.

But yeah, what what's this? What's the circles the VENN diagram?

I do not touch? Okay.

The fight with his niece ended up in a report in the Internal Affairs Division investigation. The allegations came up September nineteen ninety three. The fight was over ten dollars that the niece owed White. The niece said that White punched her and threw her down the stairs and pushed her out the front door. He denied all of this and said the niece charged him and he struck her

Like it's it's a violence which I'm sure comes from childhood and is like a history of a cycle that never ends. It's it's tragic really, but yeah, this guy's not good.

Both White and his niece reported the incident to police, and the niece obtained a protection of order against White for one year. The wife had all of the abuse documented in a diary that she gave her relative and then and the relative told this to investigators, and in quotes, the wife said to the relative, if anything happens to me, I want you to have this diary. If anything happens to me, it would be Dennis.

Wow.

So a witness told police they had seen the ex wife with a busted lip, scars, cuts and scratches from fights. Another witness said that her whole demeanor changed if White would look in her direction, and another witness said that she told her about specific instances of abuse, including allegations that White burned her hair, put her face to a stove, and stepped on her face. Jesus witness also said that he was very controlling and abusive and that the wife

For example, I didn't.

Even think about some of these, Like I thought it was pretty well informed about a lot of stuff. But you know, like officers learn specific skills how to command authority and control situations on the job, and when they do this shit to their intimate partners that can cause like psychologically terrorizing and physically violence situations. They also have access to firearms, which I keep mentioning, and they have

That's kind of obvious.

But also like a lot of shelters are private, like the addresses, but police might have location information to shelters that are not known to private citizens, So the cops have inside scoop to services and that endangers victims more. And I did not even think about that ever. Oh my god, Yeah that's crazy.

Yeah, and like even if you're not directly looking, you can like send a friend like, oh, we're looking for a woman, like you know. Yeah, it's scary because I remember in my college days when I volunteered at a shelter, like all donations went to a church, like the address was not given to anyone. Most of our training for the phones was like, do not tell anyone where you are and like secret.

But yeah, the cops fucking know.

And also cops, no other cops, the das, the judges, like it is really an intertwined thing.

So just a little aside to fill you in there.

So finally we're up to June twenty twenty one, Boston Mayor Kim Janey made an announcement that she fired the Commissioner Dennis White because of the domestic abuse allegations against him that surfaced because of the Boston Globe investigation. And FYI,

If the mass inc Is a real thing? Yeah, got it? But they are, you know, so did the guy? Did Walsh know or not know? We don't know.

But White's attorney released a videotaped Affidavid from Frank Mantini sounds like a noodle, who is the police Department's former chief of Professional Standards, and he confirmed that electronic records show that he accessed White's nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety nine internal affairs cases in January twenty fourteen, when White was promoted.

Hmmmm. The mayor, Janey said that.

The allegations eroded the public trust in his judgment and raised serious questions about his fitness to lead the Boston Police Department. According to USA Today, the fact that they didn't take this into account beforehand is just embarrassing and the evidence of how bad they are at their jobs. Like you're about to make someone a police commissioner and you it looks bad if you didn't find all this, and it looks bad if you found it and didn't care, Like, I don't.

Know which one's worse.

Yeah, Like you're detectives, Like what do you what do you mean? Yeah?

Maybe they thought no one else would find it, and then the Boston Globe, did you know?

They rolled the dice.

Some people believe that the officer being a black man played a role in the investigation. Also, they say that he was not fully cooperating during the investigation, and he kept hanging out at the police headquarters even though he was still on administrative leave. He said he only didn't answer questions that were outside the scope of the investigation and questions he found inappropriate, and that's why people think

White tried to.

Get Janie removed from the investigation and saw a court order to block her from proceeding with a hearing to dismiss him. He felt entitled to a full judicial hearing in superior court, but his emotions were rejected by a Superior Court judge and by a justice on the state appeals Court. White intends to sue the city for civil rights violations. And he just kept saying, Janey has no

I've not got a lot of Boston. Boston listeners. You guys, let us know if you know what happened to.

Yeah, I don't know anything after July twenty twenty two, and this is going to your NPR's, your commonwealths. Yeah, the Boston heralds. I'm in there, have not found anything.

But it's wild that this all came.

I wonder if when it came like a back into the consciousness in twenty twenty one, then's people thought, oh, this sounds like that SVU episode kind of. But either way, interesting. We can we can always find out from Neilber whether we were right or wrong. But it was an interesting case.

It was.

And looking at his photo, I don't I can't tell.

I want to judge him.

What makes me not trust him at all is him saying all of this is fake.

Deny, deny, deny.

But it's like, but then you are admitting that things got Yeah, you did put lay your hands on your niece and your fucking wife, and then so why are you denying it?

You know what I mean?

Right?

Yeah, I'm just not and then like just not taking any kind of accountability of any sorts. But whatever, So that's the case, and we have here an incredible guest, I would say one of my favorite guests we've ever had. By the time of my life with this person. So I really can't wait for you guys, So let's anywhere. Our guest today is an actor who's been in some huge titles over the years. You guys may remember from some classic movies such as The Insider, The Negotiator, and

Yeah, well that may be Bad Boys.

Yeah, are you kidding? Your face has been with us for decades.

And two iconic episodes of SBU I mean, not just the one we're talking about today.

We're going to talk about both if you don't mind.

Yeah, but no, this one today is the one where you're the cop in this sort of volatile relationship with the white I remember. And then the another other one is you're married. You're married to a sixteen year old starlet, you're her manager or like you're her director, and then it turns out you're married to her and you're forty and she's sixteen.

Yes, now that one I remember as well.

Yeah, yeah, you know, that's such a That whole law and order grouping of productions is such a breeding ground for people that are you know, gonna make it. I mean, if you think about I was thinking about what because I watched itlast night in anticipation of this interview and Amy Carlson. You know, she is so incredibly and I don't want to I don't want to come out here and stop blowing smoke up people's ass.

But she is really so talented.

I think we should all be so unfortunate to end up doing eight seasons on Blue Bloods. But her talent so far exee that, you know, but her talent is so I mean, you know, she should be on the big screen doing like, you know, really good stuff. She's incredibly taped and I got to make out with her.

You guys are both really you guys are yeah, you're at the end of the episode.

You guys are really going to tell you God.

That might be one of the I can't think of another full on makeout in the courtroom.

Yeah, that might be the only courtroom makeout that SBO has had.

No.

I was just gonna say, it's just an interesting episode because it's really like, it's not the way that a lot of the episodes of the show are. It's like very I don't know, it's so interesting, like I mean, we're seeing both sides. We know your character is like guilty, but it's kind of like that we see the real.

Toxic Yeah.

Yeah, very of like.

These very multi layered, you know, because on the one hand, when I was thinking, well, how do I justify that I didn't do any research, you know, because after all, I am an actor.

But the point the.

Fact is that it's it's an every man or every woman episode. You know, everybody is involved in a relationship, and everyone, I imagine everyone has had a toxic relationship where things get you know, a little heated, and sometimes people have had relationships where things get physically uh, you know, combative, and so it's something everybody can understand.

You know.

It wasn't like a rip from the headlines.

It was a forty year old man with a sixteen year old girl, you know, this is something that a lot of people can go, oh right if I didn't do it, if you know my brother in law is in one of those or my uncles in one of those.

Yeah.

And then also just like the police, like the whole thing of like you being a police officer and like are you going to be like will you face consequences for everything? And how the other cops are backing you up without like you know, no questions asked, And.

Well, and you get hit with a frying pan? Yeah, well let's start there.

Let's how it start there.

So I read that in the script and I said, well, you know, this is of course before CGI or anything like that. And I thought, well, I don't know how they're going to do that. You know they're going to make but there's going to be a shot of her throwing it and then a shot of me, like make

Ten times. And she has a pretty good arm.

I think She got me about five times, so that's a pretty good batting average. And she will you know, we were probably about twenty five thirty feet away.

From each other, so that's that's not easy to do.

And so the rubber had to be heavy enough to as it took flight, to look like it was a pan, but it couldn't be made out of foam because you know, so it was interesting. So I was trying to tell my wife that I'm doing this podcast and she goes, oh, what episode And I go, it's the one where Amy Carlson is We're in the courtroom. And Belzer says and she goes, wait, wait are you talking the frying pans? They go yes, she goes, from now on, just say the frying.

Oh my god, that's stuff. So from now on, that frying pan up.

There's another show, Karen, I love and you might be our first guest that's been on the slab on Dexter.

Oh yeah, we've had other.

Dexter people, but not on the slab. Any comments from that.

Well, I'll tell you. I can tell you a story about Dexter.

Yes please, the woman who played the detective on Dexter.

If you're familiar with this.

She was the lieutenant on there, La Guerta.

Yes, Lauren Valez, Yes, she was my girlfriend for ten years in real life. We dated when we were little eighty, when we were a lot younger. Wow, we dated for ten years.

Oh wait, she was just in an episode that we watched. She's in the episode Obscene. She's in the episode that you're in when you date the sixteen year old girl. She's the lawyer for the guy who assaults the sixteen year old.

Yes. Yes, our paths have crossed many.

Bingo, bingo. You and Lauren Valez. Oh my god. I loved her on that show.

And so we broke up right And after we broke up, we had the same manager. And my manager called me up about three months after we broke up and she said, hey, I got an offer for you to work on this movie without Pacino.

I'm forgetting the name of it now, but it was a you know when it.

Was City by the City, City Hall, City Hall, I think it was gone.

And she said that's the good news. The bad news is your wife is played by Lauren Valets. And I was like, you know, we even though it.

Was a semi amicable breakup, you know, it's not the.

Way I wanted to see her again for the first time. But anyway, she's terrific. We had a great time.

I would drive her home after work every day working on that set. She's incredible. But anyway, so cut to Dexter. I get killed in Dexter. I think it was a two episode job that I did, and she gets killed in Dexter in that same episode. And what we had to do when we're both laying down dead in that what.

Do you call that? It was like a big dumpster whatever that.

Was, yeah, ship container, shipping container.

Yeah, we had to lay down. You know, when you're laying in a pool of blood, you're not allowed to move because you know the continuity, right, if you get up, you can lay back down, it will never be the same and you're going to do a shot and it's not going to match.

So we were laying down in the.

Same position next to each other in a puddle of puddles of blood, and we held hands while we were both laying waiting for the lighting and all that stuff.

When we were reminiscing about the old days. It was very sweet.

That is so cute. Oh my god, And you're probably like I can't believe this is my life. I'm just like lying in a pool of blood for an hour.

Like I wish you were. It was many hours, but many hours. I wouldn't. I wouldn't lay down in a pool of blood with anybody else.

Wait, but back to SVU asunder your police friends defending your friends. You have some friends that would have your back.

Well, you know, I don't, not anymore.

But now I have friends that will just like they won't even answer my call if I'm in trouble.

But I had friends back in the day when I was like you know, in LA and Pilot seasons and Dean Norris.

You know Dean Norris, Yeah, breaking bad right, breaking bed?

Yeah, yeah, Norris and I we had many late night.

Calls and Clause and Clause. I did an episode of Clause, and.

You did an episode of Clause where you were Quiet Anne's dad. And we have had Judy Reyes on our podcast She had Quiet Anne has been on our podcasts, and you played her dad, which is I love a full cycle moment.

Turned out to be gay?

Yeah, yeah, So Dean Norris and I, you know, I would spend I met him when I was doing American Repertory Theater in Harvard and he was a student there and we became really close. And then I came out to La and I was doing a movie Leath a Weapon two, and all of a sudden, there's a knock on my door and I opened it up and there was Jean and he's like, Hey, I'm in this fucking

You fucking Anyway, we had.

A blast doing that, and then you know, I would go out there for Pilot season when I was still in New York at that time, and I'd fly out to Pilot Seas and hang out with him and get man, we just got just like every night we would go out until all hours of the night. We owned the bar. We would it was. It was mayhem. It was such a great time. And then you know, at some point

I'm not kidding you. There were calls like that.

Oh my gosh, Oh that was a lot.

Of fun and we always had each other's back, and there were there was a crew of us.

There were probably about six or seven.

Of But nowadays, like, you know, no, nobody's looking watching my back anymore. The guys who would watch my back, with the exception of Dean are either still in jail or dead.

Oh my gosh, that is so funny.

Did you know Christopher Maloney or Iced Tea? Like, did you know any Hargatea? Did you know any of the actors going in?

No.

When I got in to do that episode, I had just finished doing or had just released a movie I called The Insider, And Mariska was so impressed, and then Chris was too. But Mariska was like, oh my god, that's like the best movie I have ever seen.

It so incredible.

You know, Russell Crowe is in it out Pacino and it's a huge, huge cast, and I have a small partner. But they were very impressed, and they were so happy together. You know, they were skipping around and everybody was so you know, like in between takes, you'd hear Mauritiica say to Chris, so you go into the gym in the morning, Yeah, I think I'm gonna go, You're gonna go.

Yeah, why don't we go together? Okay?

And then I went back about two years three years later, and it was a slightly different.

Vibe because you were there for like you were there for like not like the honeymoon, but like kind of the beginning, like the sweet like oh there.

It was the second season. They were probably just like we got another season. We're rocking and rolling.

You know.

They were seven, and Chris was Chris was super cool, so was everybody was super cool. And and Iced Tea, you know, because you guys do this for a living. But when you make somebody like Belly laugh, it sticked. It hits you, right, It's kind of like sends a little dopamine in your brain and you're like, oh my god, I just made that person like really crack up.

And I you know, I told a joke on set, and Iced Tea was just like on the floor, and I was like, oh shit, that was cool.

That's awesome.

And I bet, and I bet making Iced Tea laugh is more fun than the regular person too.

I don't know, you know, I mean, he was he was incredible. Everybody there was so incredible. They really were.

And I don't again. I hate the idea of like just talking people up being.

But you know, on a on a sour note, you know, losing Richard was so sad.

I met him.

I think he was a regular member of the Friars Club and we were on a dais together one time, and it just it's just so sad to have lost him.

Yeah, we were really, I mean we didn't know him personally, of course, but like just the character the actors, such a great, such an important.

Yea, his character was terrific.

But him, you know, him as a as a person was just gracious.

And that's what everybody like. He just seems like he lived a good life. He used to live near me on the Upper West Side, and I would see him with his dogs on my corner at this cafe.

But I never wanted to bother.

Him, and I'm happy I didn't, but I wish I could have met him one time.

You know, you're in life, and the busier you are, the more people you meet. You know, when you go on set, sometimes you can meet one hundred and fifty people in a day, and you know you'll meet twenty actors in a day and you're doing twenty two episodes a year and you'll meet a thousand actors and for him to you know, single me out and remember me, you know, two years after we had worked together again

Opposed to the kind of glossy hey, how you doing that? Whatever? You hey champ hey Sport. He was a wonderful person.

Yeah, that's really good to hear. We hear it from We've heard it from a couple of people.

That's just like such a thoughtful thing to say about someone too, you know, that's like a very specific compliment of a person.

Well, because you bump into so many people, there are a few people that you know. Tom x is another one that was like with me, it's just so easy to just kind of like give a casual hey, yeah, how you doing, Nice to see you again, and they really.

Don't know who you are, you know, they've forgotten who you are. But in the case of Bellzer, Hanks and Smith, Will Smith is like that.

And I bring up those big names not to be a name dropper, but because these guys are so big in what they do and they meet so many people that it becomes easier to you know, lose the tree for the forest.

Yeah, that's like what we we always hear about Marishka Hargateay, Like she's been number one on the show for like twenty four years and everybody says how gracious and lovely she is and she doesn't have like she doesn't have to be. And somebody was just saying the same thing about Tom Hanks to me. Who was it, Oh, Michael Churnis. Yeah, he was saying, Yeah, he was saying like that, Yeah he did this movie with Tom Hanks and that Tom Hanks is.

But he also just said that about Will Smith too. It was about the both of them. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, it was last week.

If you know the guys, I don't know if you do, but if you know both of those guys, you wouldn't know.

You don't know that we don't because.

They really are incredibly I mean, you know, unfortunately things have changed for Will since the last since the Chris Rock slap, but they they You know, Tom Hanks, everything you've heard about him is absolutely you know true.

He's just one of the.

Kindest gentlest Sweetest. I worked with him in the first movie I ever did. I did The Money Pick.

The Money, Yeah, the Money Pig.

Yeah, I saw that on your IMDb and I was like, I remember watching that movie as a kid for sure, and I was like a huge Shelley Long fan too.

Oh kay, yeah, yeah she was paying ass. But that's enough really Yeah. I was the guy wearing shower cat.

But anyway, so so Tom and I worked together in that for like a minute, you know, I was on a small park and then I'm doing a Broadway show and he comes knocking at my door. Now this is right after I mean The Money Pig just there been released, and he was still, you know, kind of like a He knocked on my dressing room door with Rita Wilson and he goes, hey, Nestor, I saw you on the on the pay on the playbill and I said, oh

I said no.

And then I go to La and I'm doing a play in La and coincidentally he goes to see that play and then he says, nessor this is a this is more than a coincidence, we got to hang out. So I'm hanging out with Tom Hanks at his house and uh so, John love it. It's a couple of other guys from Saturday and Lava there and some producers and it was just so great and.

We hung out a few times and so that was the end of that.

And then like twenty five years later, my wife and I are walking down Eighth Avenue right around thirteenth Street, and it was a cold, blistery day and we're all bundled up in this very few people on the street and we passed this group of people and my wife says.

I think that was Tom Hanks and.

I turned around and Tom Hanks it stopped and he was like trying to figure it out, and he goes.

Nester Serranto, how you doing?

And it was him with Colin and his two other younger boys, and we talked for a while.

But you know, twenty five years later, it was amazing. It was just amazing.

Anyway, I love these stories. By the way, you never have to worry about name dropping with the two of us.

We will hear it all day long. We love it.

Yeah, but he's everything. He's everything. You'd ever you know, all the stories. Everybody says, oh, he's like the best, but he really is.

And I can't believe you're the person that introduced Tom Hankston's an hero.

Yeah, right right, you're that's a that's a big moment.

Well, you know again, Tom was just up and coming. And if you would have seen the line of people that were lined up to see Robert de Niro after the show, it was like like Don Carleone on his daughter's wedding. You know, everybody he just wanted to kiss de Niro's ring, and Chris walk and Martin Scorsesey, Dustin Hoffman, Robin Williams, a line, Meryl Streep, Robert Duval, everybody would

Love It, Love It.

Is there a part in a show that you would love to play still, like in a theater production.

I'd like to go back to doing a classical theater, which is one of the things that I would I always enjoyed doing classical. One of my bride and Joys was playing Patrick Stewart's brother in Tempest on Broadway, and it was, you know, being on stage with Robert de Niro was terrific, and I love that character that I played, such a fun character. But to be on stage doing Shakespeare, it's you know, it's I can't imagine any theatrical actor that wouldn't you know, chomping at the bit to do

Yeah, Well, I was gonna say when you and Patrick Stewart were brothers who had to talk like who, did you have to do kind of a Patrick Stewart sound or.

Did he have to talk a little bit more?

No, you know, one of the great things about theater is that it doesn't have to It doesn't have to make so much sense because you know, and especially.

Now, I mean that was a while ago.

Now you can have two brothers and one guy's you know, Asian and the other guy's black.

And you buy it.

But no, I a quick story on that. Lev Shreiber was playing and I were working together in a scene there, and it was a really great scene that we were doing. And even though everybody else is on all the members of the court are on stage, it was just Leev and I And at the time, I was smoking cigars and so we were doing a table reading and my

You know, this is almost like two gangsters, you know. So I'm doing this thing and I'm talking to him Leev, and I'm doing this whole thing like this, but I'm doing Elizabethan Wortz, but I'm talking like this. It just kind of like it wasn't an act.

It just kind of like felt right, It felt organic, and I knew we weren't going to do it that way. But at one point the director had dialect coaches come in and they heard me doing that, and I got sent to dialect school and Leev was like making fun of me because he said to it, but I did. I didn't have to do it. I was playing up that character. But I ended up getting into trouble. Yeah, I got sent a dialect school, but Patrick and I

Noticeable enough that it would have made anybody's ears perk.

Up right well, and especially reading.

Going back to doing a classical theater was I'm seriously thinking about maybe hanging up my film and.

TV shoes and doing some theater here locally. There's some good theater in Baltimore.

This was awesome something and we got so much from you for this. This is gonna be great, and thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us.

This was wonderful.

It was my pleasure.

Obsessed with him and everything he stands for.

Yeah, he is fun.

I want to I want to go to his house in his weird, gaudy office.

You have some maybe he's not drinking, he's not drinking anymore, but like we could do so we talked to him for over an hour, like he was really we could We wish we could put the whole interview, but you guys would probably be like, that's too much. But uh, I didn't want to fun talk to Yeah, he was fun, he was cool.

He you know, just had his head on straight. I'm obsessed. Yeah, I would say top ten guests. No thanks to our guests who didn't make the cut. Also, I did remember something that maybe could have gone in the intro, not a full post mortem. So you know, I was working on something where the ad as being a bitch.

Yes, I told you about that.

Yes, So I went to I saw someone else who had a part in the movie, and before I said anything, they started talking about how the AD was an awful bitch to them.

Of course. I mean it's like, I think she.

Just likes to go after the people that are there for a few days having a great time, and she because she can't take it out on anyone else. Yeah, you can't take go after the stars or like the director. So yeah, but I was like, ugh, great to hear that she's out there bullying everybody.

So that was just nice.

Well that's kind of some of the tea I was getting as well from the person in the picket line, but I can't talk about it all to tell you off, Mike, but about the ad no about another person in a high up position at a television show acting like an asshole, And I was like, it's such a shame because I feel like people it doesn't take that.

Much to be nice, Like it really doesn't. No, No, I think they like being me Emmy. I think she like enjoys it. I think it's part of her daily mantras of like I can't wait to ruin a young person's life who's so excited, Like I think she gets off on it. Honestly, you gotta watch Beef. Some people are angry fucks.

Yeah, oh no, that's like what I feel like Beef is tapping into is like the anger.

Oh my gosh, so twisted and good. Also off Summerhouse. I know you don't watch the seasonal homes, but the four like this. You know how we went into Vanderpump knowing there's a cheating thing. We went into Summerhouse knowing a friendship breaks, an eight year friendship between Lindsay and Danielle breaks off. And this week, this most recent episode, we're in the time machine. But it finally came to

It's truly Danielle. Danielle is a menace this season.

It is shocking and basically at all like the friendship ending thing happened this week.

Yeah, my friend was telling me about this yesterday. Our friend, our friend. It's really nuts. So what did your what did our friends say?

She said?

Yeah, she was like yeah, And at the end, it's like, wow, Danielle, bad luck, Like she looks terrible, Like that's she agreed with you basically what you just said.

Yeah, because I understand Danielle's feeling.

She could be feeling left out, her friends changed, Lindsay's aboutfort like, she could be feeling lots of things, her relationships on the rocks, they're not broken up, like you can feel all those things. But basically, like Lindsay gets engaged and Danielle makes all about her start screaming, Like Kyle gets the group together, going, hey, guys, Carl just proposed to Lindsay, we're all going to this bar, he

This is fucked up? Why did nobody tell me?

I can't believe nobody told me, and start like all the younger people are like they don't.

Their faces are in shock.

No one knows how to react because everyone's like, yay, they're engaged, and why would anyone include you? When Carl said he was shopping for rings, she picked up a pillow and screamed into the pillow, and she said that their relationship is weird, that it's moving too fast and has all these judgments. So then to also want to be included in the planning is nuts. So she's screaming, crying. Finally gets it together to go to this party, and you would think as an adult, and it's not about you.

Oh?

Okay, well I just found out. So I'm pretty fucking pissed. Oh my god.

And so Lindsay's best friend was like, well, I had to know ahead of time because I had to fly here, so yeah, I needed to make arrangements. And she keeps going and the friend is like, you need to stop. This is Lindsay's happiest day of her life. This isn't about you. You need to shut your fucking mouth. And like Lindsay comes in, hugs her stepdad or her dad and like they're crying and it's this like beautiful moment and Danielle is just crying, screaming and making it all about her psycho.

I mean that's like, that's like narcissism hardcore. It's it's but she's not. I don't think she is.

I get what she's feeling inside, but it's like you are raised wrong, you are right.

How old is she is? She like twenty two? No, they're in their thirties. They're old. Yeah, Like that's crazy. That behavior is crazy. Yeah.

I also heard there's a new Trinity grat on the show. Yes there, Yeah, Gabby. I looked her up. I looked her up. Let me just say we did not overlap. She is a much more recent gratuate than me. Yeah, Kyle's your ear right, Kyle's like the year right below me. But we're like the same age because I'm young for my grade. That's the only thing I'm young for anyway.

But yeah, so I know this is kind of you know, if you're not watching Summerhouse, that might have been too much. But it's just like going into the season, you're like, cause Danielle is so but also it's like you don't have to be friends with Lindsay, but you want to because you want to be on the show out Like she was always just like Lindsay's friend who is calm and boring, right, And now that Lindsay has like a

Yeah, I mean it's like, I know you're saying that she's not a narcissist, and that's very possible. But like I do think that in moments like this, people really show their true colors, like when this is like this is so above and beyond like the.

Way that like people need to watch it.

I someone is acting like when someone's a bridesmaid in someone's wedding and acts crazy, when someone's like planning someone's baby shower nexts crazy. It's like these are this is someone else's moment that you're fully commendeering, Like I don't know, that's something you got to look in word about.

That's wild. It's just not about you like fight later.

So then so the next week and they all go in it's the last week in the house, and Lindsay goes, not only are we no longer best friends, we are no longer friends. She goes every single she went up to every single person at the engagement party and was like, well, I'm pissed no one told me I wasn't even part of the planning.

Can you believe it?

You have like her friends that flew in for this engagement party.

Why would you be part of the planning if you've been talking shit on this couple since they like got together, Like, why would they ever include you when you're like, your relationship's weird. Why didn't you ask me to plan your engagement?

So weird?

Yeah, and then her boyfriend's like I texted congrats and Carl didn't even respond.

And then Carl's like, I got four hundred. I just got engaged.

Yeah, you know, like it's it's appalling. But because going into the season, they were asking like who's gonna have the most to you know, own up to at the or answer to at the reunion, and everyone kept saying Danielle. And I was like, how is this gonna happen? Because Lindsay is uninged, so I was like, what is gonna happen? And it's boo Danielle, Like it is so.

Fucked how much I know about the show not watching it, Like I know what these people look like, I know you're talking, I know who you're talking about, I know the story well.

Because also once Lindsay they had a talk, and once Danielle was like, I feel like I've lost my friends. You don't pay attention to me. My life is hard right now. Lindsay hugs her immediately goes, I'm so sorry. I love you so much. I'm gonna try to call you more. I'm gonna be a better friend because Lindsay is a bad friend. Yeah, but you can't do that at someone's engagement party.

No, No, you have to watch her. You have to watch it. Okay, I'll watch it. I'll watch it, honest way, I'll go in my house and watch it right like right after we're done.

I really will.

I just don't know how she thought that she wasn't going to be the bad guy after Hey, Carl's proposing right now, we're all going to meet him at the bar? Are you fucking kidding me? This is so fucked up. That's how she reacts because.

She's not thinking about anybody but herself, like truly, like she's the victim, and like that's the only reason I bring up narcissism because in malignant narcissists always the victim. It's always about them and like what people are doing to them. So that's why I brought that up. But wow, Okay, I'm gonna check it out.

But what did we learn here asunder domestic episode?

Yeah, but this episode is wild because they really were trying to show a lot of he said, she said, I feel like of it all, Like we already mentioned this, but ultimately, this was an abusive relationship and he was an abuser and a guest later and he would like, you shouldn't throw frying pans of people, But I think this man was traumatizing his wife.

And I I mean, I can't. And I loved a court makeout scene. Not gonna lie. That was a highlight of this episode for me. Yeah, yeah, I did see on Instagram. It was like it's you know, a ticks whatever, I need help, But it said like, what was the final thing he said that made you know that you had to leave? And so I read hundreds of comments and people are getting abused. It's like fucked.

My friend who listens to the podcast just posted today that her cleaning lady of five years was just killed in a domestic violence incident. And she's like I knew her. I knew a little bit about her family. She was so amazing. She knew about my family, and but I didn't know she had this abusive ex boyfriend and now she's gone. It's just so like, it's so fucked up like that men are just constantly a threat to women at all times.

And it made me really sad.

But yeah, Kitty, instead of like getting behind and like helping out.

They're like, it's not all of us, but then it is. Yeah, they were.

By the time I looked at this post, there were over four thousand comments and all of them were just like horrific, horrific things.

Yeah, yeah, it was really wild.

Yeah, and they I mean the new season of the new season of sv I just watched the episode where Betty Buckley is. You know, it's not a good episode, I know, but she's like the special like whatever her role is. She's like the boss of careesy and everybody in the SVU higher up like the law, like the order part of it, and she like they talk about her beat. She has been in an abusive relationship and I think that's why she kind of lets that motherfucker

Thank you so much for that.

And next week, on a lighter note, I mean still rape, but an episode we've been very excited to do Comic Perversion Season fifteen, Episode fifteen.

The Inside Baseball episode you've been waiting for.

Yeah, and I keep telling comics to watch it, like I wonder if we should do a giant viewing screening. Let's get a club to let us do it, invite our guests. You guys are gonna die, and then have comics watch it. But a lot of them know about the case because I've been bringing it up, like I'll cover too, and a.

Lot of them know. Whatever. I can't wait.

We'll see you next week, See you next time, bitches.

Bye, guys.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

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