Building Strong Marriages & Families with Tony & Bre Wood

Music. Welcome to the Thankful Homemaker podcast, a podcast to be an encouragement and blessing to each other in the role God has called us to as women.

I'm so thankful you've stopped by, so grab yourself a coffee or tea and sit with me a bit as we talk about how God's Word impacts every area of our lives as Christian women. Hello, friend. I'm Marci Farrell from Thankful Homemaker, and as always, I am so glad to be with you today. And today, we have a very special episode that I am truly excited about. I am honored to be joined by Tony and Brie Wood. They are a couple whose ministry and heart for me. Hi guys. I forget. I can see you.

They are just the sweetest couple that I have enjoyed, just our friendship and our time together. And they have such a heart for marriage and family. And they have deeply encouraged me and so many others. So I'm grateful they are dear friends, and it's a joy today to get to share their wisdom and encouragement with you.

So Tony serves as a pastor at Mission Bible Church in California, and it's a church that is just grounded in expositional preaching, and it has a deep passion for the gospel, which I love both of those. And together, Tony and Brie host a podcast, Date Night with the Woods, which is just a treasure trove of encouragement and biblical Wisdom for Christ-Centered Marriages and Families, and it's one of my favorite podcasts,

and I highly encourage you, if you haven't already, to add it to your list. So please do that. So, and today, week to celebrate the release of their new book.

Yay! I don't have clap noises. I wish I did. It's the Little Red Book of Marriage and Family, and it's 12 Principles for Relational Thriving. And it is now available for pre-order. And I'm going to give you more information on that. And I'll have links below on all these things I'm mentioning for you in the show notes. But this book is just filled with actionable wisdom, actually biblical wisdom and actionable steps. Let me reverse that.

And for building a marriage and family that glorifies God. And they cover so many important areas in this book from foundational principles like understanding God's purpose for marriage. And then I love this part too, to practical insights on conflict resolution and cultivating companionship. And what I love most about their book, and I love this most about them, is it reflects the same warmth and depth that they bring to their podcast and ministry at Mission Bible Church.

And I also will share a little bit more about this at the end, but I'm excited to mention that Pastor Tony is going to be a keynote speaker at our upcoming Word First Men's Conference on April 5th at my local church, First Baptist in West Bend. So, Tony and Brie, I am so, so thankful to welcome you.

It's just such a joy to have you both here. So, I'd love you to share a little bit more about your family. Yes. So, let's just say thank you back. We love you. We love Doug. Can't wait to be with you all. And thank you for your endorsement of the book as well. So, we love you so much. Do you want to share about family? Yeah, sure. So we have been married for 20 years. We have our oldest son named Ethan. He's 18. He is currently at TMU in Santa Clarita.

Finally growing a beard. Finally growing a beard. Coming in thick. And then we have a daughter, Peyton Faith. She's 16, junior in high school, currently learning to drive. And then our youngest is Ezekiel, and he is almost in junior high. He's just a couple months shy of starting junior high. And I just want to tell you, Marcy, thank you so much. It is such an honor. And Peyton and I have actually been huge, thankful Homemaker fans.

And so, so thankful for your ministry and all that you've taught our home. Very, very appreciated. Thank you so much. Praise God. Thank you. Thank you so much, Brie. So you are my first ever guest on the podcast. I have never done an interview. So I love that you are the ones that I get to do this with so I'm just really. But I'm just really grateful. I know we have a lot to cover.

And I'm excited to dive into just the truth and the practical insights from your book today. So one of the things that stood out to me, I kind of have your book open here too, just to kind of take a peek at it. But that stood out to me is how you begin with such an important principle. And I love how you laid it out with 12 principles. I really, I appreciated that. But it was building your home on the rock of God's

design for marriage. And that foundation is just a really crucial starting point for couples. So to kind of start our conversation, could you share why it is so important for couples to understand the purpose of marriage before focusing on the practical aspects? And really then, just as you move into that, just how have you seen that foundation transform marriages? Do you want me to start? Yeah.

The reason that we set up the first chapter that way was, and great question, Marcy, is that we had done so much counseling with couples, and especially premarital counseling, where couples were coming in, and when you ask them, and this is Christian church-trained couples, where you say, hey, why are you getting married? A lot of times they would know the big eternal answer for the glory of God, an example of the gospel.

But on an earthly level, we found out quickly a lot of couples had grown up in the church but still didn't understand what they actually were trying to accomplish together when they got married. And so we would hear answers like, well, hey, we're just really looking forward to starting a family. We are really looking forward to making babies, making love, the whole thing.

And yet, no one was ever really able to pinpoint kind of a Genesis 2.18 reality where God says it wasn't good that man was alone. Moses says it wasn't good he was alone. And so, therefore, God made a helper suitable for him, the Ezra Canegdo. And so, it was interesting that when it came to the idea of companionship and best friendship, of being lifetime teammates, that was just an idea that was foreign to most young people.

And so having the opportunity to kind of put that in front of them and say, hey, yes, your home is going to be a model of Christlikeness and a model of the gospel, but you two together are going to be a couple and you're going to be better together than you would have been apart. And that's something that you want to think about as you build your life together. And so that's been kind of the heartbeat, the foundational element of the book, at least in chapter one.

Do you want to add anything to that, my love? No, that was perfect. So how do you deal with couples? Because, you know, my husband and I, we came to faith in Christ after we were married. So we lived 15 years void of Christ.

So for couples who may feel that they started with the shaky foundation, what are some just hope and steps that you can share to help them realign their marriage with God's design? I love that question, ourselves included. I was saved after we were married. And a few things come to mind. I would say, number one, as the Lord is revealing His Word to you through different avenues, such as being in the Word yourself, being at church, repent.

The things that He's bringing to mind that through the gospel of how He has so graciously saved us and forgiven us, It's such a great opportunity then to extend that same forgiveness to our spouse. And I would say, you know, being in the Word. The Word is life. It is our spiritual sustenance. And also in prayer, side by side with prayer, because we cannot have any true lasting change if we are resting in our own strength. It's got to be His strength.

And I think another follow-up would be just, you know, seeking a Bible church. A solid biblical church that's teaching the Word of God, and then also, if needed, seeking biblical counseling and or discipleship. I'm a huge fan of discipleship, but just knowing that we are imperfect and that we have blind spots, that God's given us fellowship with other believers and to be able to have other brothers and sisters point out those blind spots to us lovingly through the Word of God.

Can I click on that last one real quick? So right there, I would click because I think a lot of couples are like, you know, our situation or Marcy and Doug, where you're going, okay, it wasn't a picture-perfect. No one has a picture-perfect reality. And so we're all kind of learning on the curve and we're all being sanctified. And I think that part of that biblical discipleship and discipleship in general angle is saying, hey, what are the biblical roles?

And that's where that authority of the Scripture and then someone who's older in your life coming along besides you can help to say, what does it mean for a husband to be a husband the way that the Lord wants him to be? What does it mean for a wife to fulfill the biblical and complementary role that Christ has created her to fill? And so that's where I would kind of click on that and just add a little bit of color.

Yeah, that is so good because that's so true for Doug and I. That was an area that when we saw couples that were just been married for a long time and walking that road and modeling that, those are the couples that we wanted to be poured into by. And again, that happens in the local church. So that is so key. And I hope people grasp that, that their local church is a wealth of resources to point them down the right path of Christlikeness. And what does a godly marriage

look like? So I appreciate that. So one thing that I really appreciate, and especially in today's world, how your book, how you connect God's design for marriage to our roles as husbands and wives.

Because Bree, your story about recognizing how, these subtle cultural ideas about kind of, I'm going to put it as like independence and rejecting traditional roles, what you call them there, subconscious feminism, had shaped your thinking. And I know that was true for me as a young bride coming into it as a non-believer. And then learning to embrace biblical submission. And that is relatable to so many women. I get that.

So could you share what changed your perspective and how God worked in your heart as you embraced that role in marriage? Yeah, there was quite a few things. But I think one opportunity that stood out the most was we had two little babies in diapers. And it was a hard season for Tony and I in our marriage. And I look back and I see that I was very jealous of his position. I was very jealous of him being able to be out of the house.

And just two years prior, you know, we were doing ministry side by side and no longer in that position to do so. And I remember one Saturday morning, Tony kicked me out of the house. Literally, he was like, Hey, I want to take care of the kiddos. I want you to go in because he knew I just wasn't in a good place. I want you to go and be in prayer, be in the word. And so I went to Starbucks. We were just starting a new Bible reading plan and literally opening up Genesis.

And the first three chapters just came alive to me because it was two things. First was seeing that I was trying to usurp my husband. I was trying to usurp his leadership. I was trying to tell him my needs and how they were more important than his needs. And I was just so selfish. And the Lord really allowed my eyes to be open to my sin. But then secondly, Being able to see my purpose, God allowed me to be married so that I could be Tony's helpmate.

And it was from that point forward, allowing my mind to be open to, I was no longer in competition with my husband. I was now wanting to compliment my husband and life got really fun. But do you have anything to add, my love? Oh, about that season? Yeah. Yeah. I think subconscious feminism, even if people go, well, I'm not a second or third waiver and I'm evangelical conservative, I think it still is kind of implicit or intrinsic in most of us because the secular worldview is so strong.

And so I think for most young ladies growing up now, because of Hollywood and entertainment, it's a real issue. We always joke about even some of the old movies. I mean, obviously TV shows like King of Queens and Everybody Loves Raymond, a lot of the new ones too, but even movies. What's that? Even I Love Lucy. Even I Love Lucy. They all portend some doofus male who's being dominated by some have-it-all-together female, and culture finds that humorous.

And so we grow up, and we quickly find ourselves in marriage adapting things that we've seen all around us. And so it was really formative for us to begin living by God's guidelines instead of the world's. They work. They do, and they work well, and it is a blessing. Yeah, I'm grateful. Always learning, though, right? We just never, we're just always looking at you. So, Pri, then what, just coming onto that, what encouragement would you offer

to wives who might feel hesitant about this concept? You know, maybe they've not embraced it yet. And especially in today's culture where the biblical roles are misunderstood or dismissed. Like, what are some encouragements we can give women to embrace this role? Yeah.

Coming from 2 Peter, I think it's 1-3, seeing that by his divine power, he has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness through the true knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and excellence. And I'm going to sound like a broken record, but being in our word, it truly makes such a difference. And there has been something that's been really helpful through 1 Corinthians 11.

Martha P. She explains this triangle. And I love how she explains it because she says, God is at the top, husband and wife are at the bottom, and there is arrows pointing down from God to husband and wife, that they are both made in the image of God. But there's an arrow pointing from the wife to the husband, showing glory, and then from the husband to God, showing glory as well.

And from that passage in 1 Corinthians 11, coming to the understanding that as my husband is bringing glory to God, my role is to bring glory to Him, to be the glory of man, and to be able to, by doing so, bring glory to God. And that is so helpful in just transforming our minds from those feministic views to God's Word. Amen. I love that. That is such a beautiful picture. So, our next area I want to delve into after we're talking about submission is leadership in the home.

So, Tony, one of the principles in your book, it encourages husband to take the driver's seat in spiritual leadership, and that's really an important topic, but it's also one that I know can feel overwhelming for some men.

Can you share, really, what does spiritual leadership look like practically? I'm such a practical person. Absolutely. And offer some advice for men, maybe who might feel unprepared or even intimidated by it. Absolutely, and I sympathize.

I have failed many times over, and she talks about the formative season of our life and talks about her following, submitting, respecting, and uplifting, but that's very difficult for a young wife to do if your husband is not sacrificially leading the way that Ephesians 5 says that he should. In fact, I remember one story. I came home during that season she's talking about, and I forget what prompted it or what caused it, but we were in a little bit of a rift.

And I got home and I walk upstairs and instead of things being tense and being frustrated, everything was at peace. And the kids were sitting in their little high chair and I walk up to the table and she comes around the corner and she's wearing like an apron. It looked like Leave It to Beaver, like June Cleaver. She had all high heels on, little hors d'oeuvres. And then she took my jacket and my backpack and she said, dinner is served, my Lord.

And I looked at her like, my lord, what are you talking about? And I said, we're not doing that anymore, this whole Lord thing. And then I guess now 20 years later, I sometimes think, let's bring that back. But I sat down at the table. I think every man has a lot of fun with that passage. Yeah, like little L, obviously, Lord. And so I sat down at the table, ate dinner. The kids were all—and then I asked her, I said, what happened?

She told me she had called one of the more seasoned saints at the church and talked to the lady. And the lady had said, simply go to 1 Peter 3 and then read through it. And whatever it says, do it. So she took it literally. And let me just say, when your wife steps into a place where she's ready to do whatever the Lord tells her to do, regardless of your response or leadership as a husband, it's an incredibly, convicting and motivating moment.

And that was when I realized, hey, I've got a wife who's with me for thick and thin, and there are commands given of God that I'm not doing. I'm not living with her in an understanding way. I'm not Ephesians 5 sacrificial. I'm not Ephesians 5 sanctifying her, washing her in the Word. I'm not Ephesians 5 satisfying her emotionally and physically. I'm not Ephesians 5 securing her to where she feels safe. And so I think that's an eye-opener for a husband.

If I had to boil it down, I think philosophically, what I would say is being a spiritual leader, which is a term we use at every men's conference, and I think guys, as we start to feel like, okay, I hear it, but I don't know what it means. Picture it like a lighthouse where the lighthouse goes on the rock and it shines light for all to see. Now, the ships can come into harbor and they can choose whether they're going to heed the lighthouse or not.

But the lighthouse doesn't change its position and it doesn't change what it says and what it espouses. That, I think, is spiritual leadership. Honey, kids, you guys can follow or not, but this is where our home is going. So, here's how we pray, here's why we pray. Here's why we go to church and where we go to church. Here's why we do family devotions, here's how we do them and why we do them.

And so what you're doing is you're charting the course. Leadership is getting out in front of people and helping them see the direction to go, and then walking around behind people and serving them on their way. And so I think that's probably the best philosophical way to think about leadership, is sit down with a notepad or a journal and say, yes, bring me in my house, we're going to serve the Lord. Here's what it looks like over the course of the coming year.

And pick two or three big initiatives, kind of if I'm going from California to New York. So pick New York. What does that look like? Is it in the Bible or in family devotions three times a week? Is it everyone's going to be in a Bible reading plan together? We're going to be at church other than vacation every single or illness every single day of the year. We're going to be in a discipleship group or small group, you know, whenever the church has them.

Pick those three or four initiatives. That's your New York for the year. And then simply build a map from wherever you live to New York and say, here's the milestones that we're going to take as a family this year in order to begin taking steps to be more like the Lord. So I think that's kind of a general heartbeat of it. That is so good, Tony. And actually, it's comforting. As a woman, I'm really grateful when my Doug, he takes that role and that comforts me.

Then I'm not anxious. I know the direction. I know where we're going and I really appreciate that. I love that. I am very grateful to have grasped submission, even as a younger believer, That changed our marriage immensely. And that was an area that I am grateful for. So thank you. That really did well. And Bree, as he stated that, then I love you addressed how wives can support their husbands as spiritual leaders.

And I just thought you did a sweet job of that. But how can we encourage and support our husbands in this without feeling like we're nagging them or we're pushing too hard? Just how do we encourage them in it? Because I think women forget what we have a big role in this, too. Yes, absolutely. And I think being their biggest cheerleader.

I mean, this world is so dark and it is so hard for our husbands to be in the front lines and to be able to see their effort, to be able to see their growth and to be able to praise God first and foremost for it. And also tell them how thankful we are for them in all the small and the big ways. I think being aware of expectations. My husband always says, you know, expectations breed frustrations. And so being able to see, you know, my husband and myself are not going to look

like the person to the left or to the right of us. God has made us all so unique. And so not trying to fit anyone else's mold, but trying to really lean into God's purpose and gifting for how I can serve my husband. And I know for our first years of marriage, I had a woman that I just learned so much from and I tried to emulate what she was doing. And I realized years in, Tom didn't really care if it was a fancy dinner. I mean, it literally could be something thrown in the microwave.

But if it was on time, that's what was important to him. And so just asking those questions, you know, what are three things that I could do in this season to serve you each day? So it might just be a clean home in certain seasons. It might be just calendaring intimacy, you know, if that has kind of, especially in the years where our littles are tiny, we can be physically exhausted.

And so, yeah, it's just so different for each. no we want to keep scheduling that even now it's not let's not quit on that one.

I mean i do appreciate just your practical steps because sometimes people need that they don't know where to begin and that is one thing i do love about your book is just the practical aspect when they're you know people will read it and go okay now what how what does that look like and you lay that out and i'm really grateful so they're going to find this book such a great resource and And I'm, it's just going to be a blessing.

The heartbeat of that was we had a young man who had planted a church and he came to us and he said, there are so many books and volumes, theological and also marital and familial, that talk about what it is. We all kind of get that. He said, but because so many of us grow up in broken homes, we don't have a template for how to work these things out.

What should it look like? And so that really was the heartbeat of the book is trying to say, okay, now you know the principle, but how can you apply it in your marriage and in your home? Beautiful way to just lay it out and model it like that for them. So I appreciate that. This will be a great, this is a great one for weddings, you know, young couples just getting married and really any, I just think couples that people are counseling, what a great resource to get

to them. And it's not an intimidating book. It's not what they're going to be like, this is 800 pages. I don't know where to begin. So I appreciate that.

So as we kind of transition from leadership and we're talking about the culture here, because it ties closely together, just the challenges that we face now as Christian couples in today's culture. And I know there's nothing new under the sun and there's always been issues, but we do have some interesting things that we're dealing with right now in today's culture.

And it just seems like the messages about marriage and gender roles, they are so at odds with God's word, with what his word clearly teaches. So, and one of the principles you touch on in this book is about those cultural lies. And what are some of the biggest challenges that you see that Christian couples are facing today and how can they stay grounded in God's design for marriage? And I know, I know the word, I know it. Like I wish, don't you wish like people

would just grasp that? It's like, pick up your Bible and read it and then obey what it says. But am I starting or are you starting? What comes to mind? Great question, Marcy. My mind, I go philosophical, it's the way I'm wired, but immediately I go to the rationalism of the mid-20th century, where there was this huge movement in America away from the idea of God and the idea of a deity.

And so, because of science and Darwinian evolution and all that, you basically had a whole generation of boomers who were trying to say science would be the answer. And the removal of God, I always view it as like a machine. We're in a machine, and they viewed us as kind of animals in the machine, but they were saying there's nobody outside the machine that could run it. And so, therefore, you have no accountability.

Everyone in here, it's simply survival of the fittest, do what you got to do to win. And that's why there were so many suicides in the 60s and 70s, why so many famous movie stars and rock stars all committed suicide. You can go through the list. It always happens about age 27 to 30, because if you tell a young person there's nothing outside of this machinery, after they've had sex, drugs, rock and roll money, they go, I might as well take my life. There's nothing else.

So Heath Ledger, Kurt Cobain, just go down the list, Jimi Hendrix. But then you had, because of that, the emptiness of that rationalism, what Frame calls an irrational rationalism, you actually end up with mysticism. And that's where we are now. So the postmodern world moved to a mysticism where they're going, there's got to be something out there. That other thing didn't work. There's something outside the machine. But it's unnamed and we do not stand accountable to it.

It's simply a being or a force, hence Star Wars and George Lucas and all of that. That's currently where we're at as a culture. So the problem with that now is, and this is where we get what Carl Truman calls the imaginary self is because there's a power out there, I have hope. But because there's a power out there, it has empowered me and whatever I say is what goes.

And so, that's where we're at now as a culture. How I view marriage is what marriage is meant to be, not what some old book, ancient book tells me it is what it is to be. How I view sex, how I view gender. And so, that's why everything is now non-binary. And so, I think that's the backdrop when you talk culturally of where we're at today. For a long time, it was, hey, listen.

There is no God, therefore I'll do what I want. I'll rebel. Now it's because there is some force out there, I'm empowered to do what I want. It's my right and my wrong. And so I think that bleeds right over into marriage. The definition of marriage is no longer biblical. The definition of marriage we've seen in America now has been erased to mean something that it never has meant in 6,000 years of human history.

And so when you talk about cultural problems or you mention those, That would be the big, I think, overarching one that we're dealing with, is bringing people back to definitions of propositional truth, bringing people back to objective reality. If you're going up, you can't go down, and you can't say you're both. If you're a man, you're not a woman, and all of that. And then sitting couples down and helping them understand, because of said reality, this then is how you live.

And so, sorry, I'm going off on one of my big tirades. Oh, that's so good. I mean, Tony, you're kind of hitting it there, but are there other practical steps? Is there anything else you could add to that that couples can take to resist these influences? I think even just as you said, coming into our homes. And so we're living out God's truth in our homes. We can go really practical on that. Sorry, I didn't go practical. No, it's so good.

To me, and this is stuff that we talk about in the book, yes, biblical authority, which you already referred to. But my mind immediately goes to Romans chapter 12, 1 and 2. If you're going to take your life and you're going to put it up on the altar and say, I am now a living and holy sacrifice unto the Lord, the next natural subsequent move which will happen is don't be conformed to the world. Meaning you're not going to be conformed and molded to its image.

You're not going to look like it. So when the world has a view, an aim, an ideology, you're going, that's not me. Because I've been transformed. That's metamorphosis is the word. I went into the cocoon like a little caterpillar. I came out a butterfly by the daily renewing of my mind. And so that act of putting myself on the altar, and this goes for couples, this goes for individuals and singles, it doesn't matter our age or stage.

It's when I take my marriage, my family, or myself, I put it on the altar. That's a one-time act. That's heiress tense. But then it immediately becomes an ongoing renewal of the mind. That's a daily present tense act, which is then proving, he finishes in verse 2, the will of God. And so, what that means is we as couples have to make the choice. If the secular world says this, we don't. We say this. If the secular world watches this, we don't. We watch this.

If these are the friendships I used to have, I don't anymore. Now I have these. And I would even take it so far, and this can get me in trouble. And Marcy, I hope you're okay with this. I think you will because I know you. But this is where I think as Christians, when we get down into application of that principle, that people get frustrated because they go, you're pushing it too far.

But that's why for Brie and I, and in the book we talk about this, it's not okay to sit by and watch Disney corrupt your children, in my opinion. It's not okay. Now, you can watch it, but you want to do it with good guiding eyes and suggestions and wisdom as parents. I don't think, for example, Taylor Swift is a great influence, you know, because young girls will grow up idolizing someone who has openly said that she refutes and doesn't believe in God.

So, I think in general, that would be the way I would probably paint it. Don't be conformed and find all the ways that you can de-conform from the world and then be transformed. Have that metamorphosis of soul to be every day renewing your mind in the Bible to become more and more like Christ. Is that a little bit sermonic? Sorry, everyone. No, that's so good. I appreciate that. My listeners will appreciate that. So thank you for that.

So I'm going to go into a fun area because we're going to talk about conflict. I thought that marriages have conflict, right? We never fight. I would assume probably every couple faces disagreements, right? And I love in the book, you describe it as fighting fair. So can you kind of walk through what it means to fight fair and how couples can resolve conflicts in a way that really honors God and strengthens their relationship, which I love the thought of that. Yeah.

You want to start his talk? No, I just talk too much. You go ahead. I'll give the big idea and then you take it wherever you want. So in the book, we talk about putting on and putting off. And the simple idea is that put off the worldly ways of fighting. You always, you never, withholding sex, whatever it is, and then put on godly ways of engaging each other to not just win the argument, but win the person. Yes. Yeah. And we personally as a family have loved Ken Sandy's peacemaking materials.

So fantastic. And in those, there's a couple different things. One is his seven A's of confession. And those are just fantastic because it talks about, you know, addressing everyone that's involved in the conflict, avoiding if, but maybe what you just said, love. Admit specifically what you've done. Acknowledge the hurt. Accept the consequences. Alter the behavior.

And then ask for forgiveness. And I have found that when I am responding and confessing my sin and being able to come to another person with these things has been so helpful, just letting them see the seriousness that I take the seriousness of my sin. And then also he talks about the pause principle, which is really helpful, you know, just preparing what to say and then affirming your relationship with that person.

Understanding their interests and searching for creative solutions and then evaluating, you know, those options objectively and reasonably. But those things have been really helpful for us. And I think coming back to James 1, it's a favorite passage of just realizing that we can consider it all joy when we encounter various trials because we know that the testing of our faith produces endurance and that endurance produces just a perfect result that we can be, you know, complete,

lacking in nothing, perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. Amen. So learning to take the big log telephone pole out of our own eye so that we can then deal with the speck in the, maybe, in the others. Yes. Yeah. It's really important to join our love. That's showing our love for them, just taking that log. I mean, we can't love somebody rightly with the log in our eye coming at them. We're not going to be wanting God's best for them.

And we're going to be seeking out our own interests in that moment. And so that's so good. I do. I love The Peacemaker. They even have a smaller book that I love, The Resolving Conflicts one. It's a little one. Sometimes I love to hand out because it's, again, it's not intimidating like the big book. Yes. And it lays out those so beautifully. But who better?

This is just an area that I've been pondering. We're going through in our ladies group, Respectable Sins by Jerry Bridges, and just the aspect of humility. Like when we're coming in repentance, why wouldn't we want to humble ourselves? We have such a gracious God who loves us that, Even more so, why would I not want to seek forgiveness for someone when I've been forgiven so much and I have a God who doesn't look at me any differently,

you know, when I'm going through that process. And those are the times we grow. I think a lot of times when we've had a, really, I've had to repent before my children, those have been great times of growth for our relationship. And I think sometimes people miss that, how much benefit we get through those times when we are biblically repenting, where a lot of times people just brush it off easy, like, yeah, whatever, I'm sorry.

But when we biblically repent, there is so much growth there and closeness, and so much more happens in those moments. So yeah, thank you for sharing that, Brie. That was so good. But how, you know, I want to come back to the expectations, because I love, I forgot how you said it, how Tony stated that. But how do you... Expectations, Brie. Dextration. It's like a go-to maxim. Yes. Yeah. It was my way of telling her early on in the marriage, just don't expect too much.

Keep your bar low. Might have been benefiting him more. Hold on a minute. Maybe. Inherently selfish. This is the story of our love. But Bear, do you have any other thoughts there? Just how, like, I think when couples have that, because I see that so often when they have these unmet expectations or their priorities are misplaced. And that could be really where a lot of their struggles are coming from.

Like, is there anything you can add there to just encourage them or help them in any way? Just... I'm drawing a blank on that one, wouldn't you say? I mean, I'm coming back to just the put off and put on. And so really allowing our minds to go to the word of God. So what is my expectation right now that I have of my husband? Is it just a desire?

Is it a need? And really being able to see, okay, if it's not a need, it's something I can communicate with my husband as a desire, but it's not something that he's being sinful if he does not do. And so really reflecting on, is there any selfishness that I need to be putting off right now? And then what can I be putting on in replacement of that? But I don't know if that's what you were asking. The reason I'm drawing a blank

is because I married a perfect person. Oh, good nuts. And so I just can't think of anything that you ever do wrong. No, she really is. You do have that. She did such a, yes, you do have a wonderful life. I do. I do.

Full of flaws. One, because it's so easy sometimes, and actually you hit it earlier when you were talking about just really not comparing our spouses to somebody else, like my marriage, and I forgot where we were at in that, but just not looking to the left or right, but what God has for you as a couple. And so often we can see other couples doing things and going, well, why isn't my husband doing that?

And it's like, well, it's not a sin if he doesn't do it, and maybe he does things differently, and it's his personality, and it's just resting in that.

So I loved how you walked through that breeze. So thank you for that. And I just, I appreciated that. Thank you. So you guys described marriage and I really wanted to, it was just giving some practical encouragement for thriving together. And one way is you describe marriage as a covenant of companionship. And that is just a really beautiful way to look at it. So, This is a big one for people. I wish couples could grasp this too.

So you need to get this little book. I'm sorry, I have to keep doing that. It's just really good. What are some simple practical ways that couples can cultivate just deeper companionship and unity in their daily lives? Do you want me to go? Immediately, I think defining covenant is helpful because it's really heavy biblical terminology. So, for an Israelite, the idea was unilateral or conditional covenants.

There were two types, but the unilateral would have been a covenant that was, this is what I'm promising to you regardless of what you do back to me. And that's some of the language you see in the Old Testament in regards to marriage. And so, I think that's important. That's where the term comes from. We have updated it in the vernacular to simply be like a contract of lifetime teammates just so people can, you know, and I think there's one big thing.

If you walk down the aisle and you stand between, you know, at the altar and you've got your friends and family watching, it's important to remember that we're not just making a covenant between one another. We're making a covenant between the two of us and God. And the living God is the one that's watching this agreement. And then I think it's a question of how do you begin managing and living out that promise to one another?

And what I find, and I think this is secularism as well, or just laziness in our flesh, but is we make this massive commitment and then we date or court all the way up to it, like invested. And then the moment we walk the aisle, it's kind of like we just pull our hands off and assume it's going to go on autopilot. And so one of the things that we were taught early on was to develop a date night and not like just go out and be romantic and then hope that it's physically

intimate later. It was literally like, make this a management time for your covenant. And so the older couple told us, hey, once a week or once every other week, get a babysitter, invest in your marriage, go out. And then pick different categories that you want to grow in as a couple. And so we ended up deciding on three. We used cash, calendar, and convictions, which just simply means, like Jesus said, where your heart is, your treasure is, your heart will be also.

So we took cash. How are we budgeting together? Because what you do with your money tells you about your heart. We took our calendar because we found early on with kids, it was like we were just going all different directions. And that created a lot of angst and frustrating comments and little nitpick fights. And so we always talk about that on a Google shared calendar and then convictions like we talked about earlier.

If I as a husband am to set a direction and she is my helpmate is to help get the home going in that direction, then having those regular management meetings to say, how are we doing convictionally? Or do you feel loved the way that you need to feel loved, understood, and then vice versa? Do you feel satisfied, secure?

Do you feel listened to? And so I think that was our matrix for date nights, and that's actually where the podcast name came from and all that, is simply saying we have this massive agreement that we've made between one another and God. Now, what's the best way to pour all of our efforts and resources into securing that for 50 years?

And so that's where it came from. Yeah. And to piggyback what you said, that part of convictions, it's been so helpful to be able to just write down throughout the week things that I want to talk to him about so that when he gets home, because we were bumping heads in those first years of marriage because he'd get home, he's so exhausted. And I'm just like waiting, you know, to talk and about these serious issues at 10 o'clock at night, it usually does not go well.

And so being able to just have that time where I know I have his ear and he'll be able to think through what he says. And for men too, the same thing where there's that old book, Men Are Waffles and Women Are Spaghetti. Is that what it is? I don't remember. Anyway, the idea is women... By and large, generally tend to weave thoughts together. So you talk about, you know, how was your day?

And it turns into, I went to the gym and I saw Karen and Karen, oh, by the way, her kids, you know, are flunking out of junior high. Should we even be in junior high? Maybe we should homeschool. And like literally a conversation weaves together. Whereas men, we tend to toolbox in categories. And so we're like waffles, box for this, box for that. And that's generally speaking, obviously there's exceptions.

So what we realized was she would come with emotional concerns, I might not be in the place where I'm ready to toolbox, fix, or answer that. And so if we wait till date night, not only does she have a place to voice concerns, I have a place to basically have a thought bubble and focus on said concern and try to serve and help. And so that's why we did that. I think some other applications, praying together. I know you have statistics that are very helpful in that area.

We put that in the book. Baylor University, typical divorce rate in America, I think is 50 to 55%. This is a peer-reviewed study that says that couples who pray together divorce 1%, pray together daily divorce only 1% of the time. And so the old maxim, couples who pray together, stay together really does seem to be in fact true. Yeah. I think also you helping just lead us as a family at nighttime through the word has been so valuable, being able to just glean from his leadership.

And then also taking care, I know we mentioned it before, but just taking care of each other's needs through physical intimacy, calendaring it as needed. Yeah, when we first got married, you put a little heart on your calendar. Yes. You know, and... And in those baby years, I mean, Marcy, I don't know if you felt this way, but I was so physically exhausted that that was like the last thing on my mind.

And so being able to just be conscious about it, praying about it, asking for the Lord's strength in those days where just feeling tired was so helpful. That is so good. Well, then you're kind of prepared. you're thinking about it. So you're, yes, maybe you're, maybe there's some things you're holding back on during the day. So you're not so exhausted by the end of the evening. So yes, very much so. But those are just some really good practical steps you walked us through that

were not challenging. Just that weekly date night with intention. And I do love that. And, but good intention. It's not like it's an intention that you're not looking forward to. This is good stuff you're working through. So I love that. And even, gosh, just the leading your family in the evening is such a big thing. And I know for some men that can be challenging as to what that looks like, but each family can determine what that looks like.

You don't have to sing five hymns and have, you know, and that sometimes I know people can get intimidated by that. I'm so glad you said that. That is so, I think, from The Burden, where they read about family worship and they picture a Puritan home, And it's four chapters of the Bible. The guy's going, am I going to have to lead an inductive study? And then we're going to pray for an hour and sing. And it's overwhelming.

Whereas if you think about age and stage of your children, you can make it a really fun time. And so taking the pressure off men, I mean, literally open up the Bible, read a proverb, look around the table and go, what do you think it means? What do you think it means? What do you think it means?

And take prayer requests. That thing can be 10, 15 minutes. when the kids are little, getting on the floor and reading through a beautiful Sunday school book primer on the stories in the life of Christ and then cuddling together while you pray. If you get a kid's heart for 10, 15 years around the dinner table, actually get his head, and then you go in every night and pray with them, put your hand on their little chest and pray doctrine over them. Lord, I thank you for my son or my daughter.

I really believe that. I want them asking that you help them come and understand what justification means, that they'll turn from their sin and repent. And Lord, then you thank him. Lord, I thank you, Lord, that you've given him to our family. And we look forward to how you're going to use him. If you get their head around the table for 15 minutes and their heart for two minutes at nighttime, that child most likely is going to grow up.

Salvation is of the Lord, but he's going to probably grow up as an upstanding citizen who loves his mom and dad. That's excellent, Tony. That is excellent. Hill, I'm really grateful. I know our listeners are going to be blessed by this book.

It is excellent. And I know we're kind of wrapping up. And I want to go through just some final pieces of advice for you guys to share. Like if you could leave our listeners with one piece of advice about building a marriage that glorifies God, what would it be? I think for me, it would go back to selflessness. I think that being a Christian means we've died to self. And that includes with how we love our spouse.

And so I have to constantly think, 1 Corinthians 13, what is going to put my wife and my family first, and how am I going to serve them first, and then I come second? I think that would be my primary consideration to all my brothers who are listening.

Even if your wife is unkind, if she's contentious, even if you have years of brokenness and things have been confused, you've been hurt, your ego has taken a shot, I think going back to that Christ-like submission of Philippians 2 and humbling yourself and taking that posture of a John 13 servant is going to be the thing, and I really mean that, the thing powered by the Holy Spirit that begins to transform your home. So that's what I would say. Mine would be to abide, to abide in Christ.

If we are abiding in Christ, then whether our husbands do things that we like or that we don't like, our sole focus is to love them from a pure devotion because we love our Lord. And so, yeah, I think mine would be. 15. team. So just you two, and I love that you got to write this book together. I think that's super special. Can you just share your journey with others that this had to be just a neat experience for your own marriage?

I think about that, but what has been the most meaningful part of this process for you two? I think it was wonderful. I enjoyed it. I think the book, there's parts that are tag team. So, you know, she'll speak into certain things and then other chapters that were more written from her first-person perspective, I'll speak into. I think it wasn't really like some people say a labor of love because it's been 20 years in the making. So, I think it was easy to sit down and kind of work through.

I think the harder part with the book was saying out of all the principles that make for an enjoyable marriage and a blessed family life, what would be like the top 10 or 12? And I think paring it down was probably the hardest part. But yeah, I'm just thankful. I think we're humbled.

I feel honored to not only obviously to be a Christian and to have the Lord rescue me out of my sin, but to give me a wife who's so faithful, to be a part of a wonderful church, and then to even be able to have the opportunity to write about his love. I think I feel humbled about the whole thing. Yeah, biggest prayer is that Tony and Bree would not be elevated in any way, and that it would be Christ and Christ alone.

One of the sweetest joys also has not only been doing it together, but being able to hear others who have just said through the podcast, because a lot of the book is just taking from the podcast and what we've done together there, and being able to hear how by sharing God's Word and many times mistakes that we've made, how it's helped their family. I'm not sure, Marcy, you experienced this as well.

There's something so neat about technology. There's obviously a lot of issues, but one of the beautiful things is when we get to go other parts of the world and meet people that are a part of kind of an extended family and to think like, wow, we know we're going to get to be in heaven together, but to get to experience that joy now is really sweet. Yeah. See, it really is. I'm so grateful for you both for being here with me today.

It's been a joy for me to hear your hearts, but I know my listeners just as much, if not more. And just to glean from your wisdom and dive into the rich truths of this lovely little book, and I love it because it's the Little Red Book of Marriage and Family, and it is red, isn't it? It is red, correct? It is. Yes.

That's so good. Very red. for you guys listening out there i want you to know that you can pre-order the book right now and it's at 316publishing.com so that's 316publishing.com and i'm going to have that link in the show notes below so you don't have to remember that wherever you're listening and you'll see that link and i really want to encourage you to check out their podcast date night with the woods and it is you can find it on your favorite podcast catcher

app wherever you listen in or you You can visit their website. It's datenightfam.org. And again, I'll link that too. But I know that this conversation is going to encourage and bless so many of our listeners. So just as Tony and Brie, your ministry has blessed myself and my husband, and I know many of my friends and local people, even my church family, so much.

So I'm so grateful for it. But before we wrap up, I need to do one more little plug here because I want to take a moment to share something exciting. I mentioned at the beginning, whether, and my ladies out there, this is for your husbands or your sons or your friends, but Tony's going to be a keynote speaker at my local church at our Word First Men's Conference. It's hosted by my little church in West Bend, Wisconsin, First Baptist, and it's on April 5th, so just a few months away.

I know they're working on getting that link up, and I will have that in the show notes. It's a one-day event, so it's not a huge commitment, which I know a lot of local guys will appreciate that, being able to come in. But it's designed to equip and encourage men to stand firm on God's truth and his word. So, and it is right now in a world as we're walking through here that so desperately needs godly leadership. So it'll be a good encouragement.

So ladies, if you think the men in your life would be blessed by this and you're local or you can drive a little bit to get here, I'd so encourage you to share the details with them. So I will, I'll have that all over the place when it's out. So you don't have to worry about that. It'll come there. It'll be,

you'll see it. But as we close, I do want to remind everybody, all the links mentioned are going to be in the show notes from how to preorder their book to where to find them online, the details about the men's conference. But I'm just really grateful for you, my friend, to be here with us today. I'm so grateful that I got to spend time with Tony and Brie. And I always, my friends, I always want to tell you to remember that Jesus truly is enough always.

And Tony and Brie, are there any final thoughts you want to share before I close this out here today? I'm so grateful. Well, thank you so much. I can't thank you enough. Thank you so much for being here. We are just so thankful for you, Marcy. Thank you for your love for Christ and just being a bold witness to how good and how wonderful he is. We are so encouraged by you. So thank you. I would only say we love you and I cannot wait to see you all in a couple months.

I know I'm so excited. I'm so excited. So my friends, thank you for listening in and I pray you all have a very blessed week. Music.