[SPEAKER_01]: Hey Tommy, I just want to apologize to the patrons and we're a little bit late and that's because I was running late because I went to the Apple Store and bought the new Ultra. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the new watch? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we could do an unboxing right here if you're watching this, except there was a problem. [SPEAKER_01]: So I always skip generations so I had the Ultra one. [SPEAKER_01]: But this time I wanted to go with the Ultra 3, but I wanted to do it in the black.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: There's like a natural titanium color, and then there's a black. [SPEAKER_01]: Very cool. [SPEAKER_01]: So I want the black, I want the blue. [SPEAKER_00]: You want to hold it up? [SPEAKER_01]: I want the blue band. [SPEAKER_01]: If you're watching this on Patreon, or if you're watching it on YouTube, and I want the black watch, which is right here, well, I get the open, it's very satisfying.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got to the rate, the rear of our tracks, and there was a train. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So I opened up this watch, and they had given me the wrong one. [SPEAKER_01]: They had given me the natural one, which is the one I had. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm like, oh shoot, I'm gonna be late, but I bet you I can just go to the Apple store and say hey, give me the wrong one by accident. [SPEAKER_01]: Can you swap it out?
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't work that way. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Ricky mistake there dad. [SPEAKER_01]: It does not work that way because obviously it's not so simple to return an Apple watch. [SPEAKER_01]: because that's what you're doing. [SPEAKER_01]: And then a whole bunch of kofuffle came out and then they had it like right, they had to establish a gift card basically. [SPEAKER_01]: So they had to give me a gift card. [SPEAKER_01]: So they had to create that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then using the gift card, they were able to change the watch. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is after I had owned the watch for like 22 minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: and I have to say Tommy I've got a 15 and I'm kind of jonesing for the new 17 but the thing even with the watch that keeps me from doing that is not the buying it it's the setting it up and it's specifically the fact that like this watch has a phone number and the way that it works is when you get the new [SPEAKER_01]: watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: You basically terminate the old watch contract with me with Verizon and then you're supposed to go and set up this watch and get a new watch contract so that you have connectivity so that you can use it outside of like. [SPEAKER_01]: having, you know, being on Wi-Fi. [SPEAKER_01]: And last time I did that with my phone when I got the 15, they were not able to switch the eSIM and turn it on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I spent two hours at the Apple Store trying to get my eSIM to work and it didn't work. [SPEAKER_01]: And if the eSIM doesn't work,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know in the watch it's no big deal right they're not making phone calls on this thing even though you could but if it doesn't work in the phone and outside of Wi-Fi you have no connectivity and then it becomes a big deal and then I had to go to the Verizon store and what ensued then was like 14 hours of just an utter train wreck because there were 3 million people trading in their phones I couldn't get an appointment for a week I had a phone that was working and so that's why I'm terrified of actually swapping out phones because of what happened to me last time
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the cool thing about the watch is if you get one with the eSIM in it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Ultra always has the eSIM. [SPEAKER_00]: I actually kind of like this a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like this at all when I first kind of thought about watches, but it kind of makes sense now. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's this big trend now. [SPEAKER_00]: against social media having access to it all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So have you heard of these like new phones called like dumb phones? [SPEAKER_01]: I have. [SPEAKER_01]: I have heard of the new dumb phones. [SPEAKER_00]: So essentially what it is, it's like returning back to the 90s. [SPEAKER_00]: So you get a little flip phone and you can call and you can text. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's all you can do, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's no way to access Instagram and Facebook and all those kind of toxic social media apps.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, people are buying these, but my argument is you're better off just getting an Apple Watch if you're an Apple user, because then you still have your same phone number, you don't have a different phone number, it's connected to your Apple account, but you can leave your phone at home and still have your watch, like if there's an emergency for driving an old car and it breaks down, which just happened to me, then you can make a call on the watch, but I'm not always plugged in, so I really do like that feature.
[SPEAKER_00]: My problem with Apple Watch is I have a really old one I'd like an SE. [SPEAKER_00]: and the battery lasts about 92 seconds. [SPEAKER_00]: So, it's a little tricky for me to kind of keep charging it all the time, it's just a little bit of a pain. [SPEAKER_00]: However, I do like that feature about the Apple Watch, a little talk about that. [SPEAKER_01]: So, there it is, there's my new Ultra. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, congratulations. [SPEAKER_01]: And how much was it?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, they gave me $255 for the Ultra One. [SPEAKER_01]: This one was 899, so I paid like $560 with tax for it. [SPEAKER_01]: The crazy one is the new Pro iPhone 17s. [SPEAKER_00]: are, and you can get them up to like two grand, which is more than or kind of like El Dorado. [SPEAKER_01]: It's true, but it is more than or can't like it. [SPEAKER_00]: So you could have a Cadillac El Dorado don'ty or you could have a new phone. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there it is, it's not set up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it looks nice. [SPEAKER_01]: So, but it is on my wrist, and hopefully I can get it set up hopefully I can get the little e-sim, I guess it's an e-sim, working on this watch, and the other reason I got this is just because of the recent you stated, my battery on my old one didn't even last a day anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: So this one, hopefully, is supposed to have, I think, $40 of battery time, which will be nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's really what makes me want to even trade in this phone. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the fact that, by, like, one o'clock in the afternoon, my phone needs to be charged. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is after two years of having it. [SPEAKER_01]: And the, and Apple says that the phone's battery is 85%. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I would say based on the fact that this lasted two days when I got it, that it's like 25%.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand that, but that's a whole mystery. [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody out there can let us know. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sorry we're not doing a watch show. [SPEAKER_01]: We should probably start talking about cars. [SPEAKER_01]: What are we talking about today, Tommy? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we have.
[SPEAKER_00]: A couple of things going on, I want to talk about my Toyota chip, so I just had a chance to drive a bunch of really cool new Toyota's, such as the Final Edition Mark 5 Super, I drove the new FR80 GR86 U-ZU, I drove the new Jerkroll, the new Toyota Kroll across, and I had a chance to kind of do some track driving, some street driving, a little bit of offroading, in all those vehicles, which is cool, they're not for the Super.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the main topic is hopefully what cars you should buy new and what cars you should buy use. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I have the headline is never buying new and never buy used. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: What is supposed to do lease? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, no. [SPEAKER_00]: So these are cars that depreciate incredibly quickly in a lot of cases. [SPEAKER_00]: So these are cars that I would never buy new, but you should buy used.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the flip side of that, I have some cars that you should never buy used by new because they depreciate so slowly. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, perfect. [SPEAKER_00]: Great topic. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's start with [SPEAKER_01]: something before we get to any of that and that is you just drove the brand new leaf. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think of it? [SPEAKER_01]: Just now. [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually very good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think there's about as much interest in the leaf on this podcast as there is. [SPEAKER_01]: for a saltine, but it's the first mass electric car. [SPEAKER_01]: People may think it's the Tesla, but the Tesla Model S was very expensive when it came out about a year after the Leafshire, and the Leaf was not. [SPEAKER_00]: No, the Leaf is an excellent little car. [SPEAKER_00]: I like the first gen, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had the air cooled battery problem, which meant that I like to say that the Nissan Leaf set back electric cars like 15 years, because yes, it was the first mass-produced affordable EV. [SPEAKER_00]: But by air cooling the batteries, you had a very high rate of failure, and then that required people to replace them, and then you got those headlines going to be $29,000 to replace the Leaf battery.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it set this like, train in motion, and then it's going to be $30,000 to $30,000. [SPEAKER_01]: To this day, people think that the batteries and cars are like the batteries and my watch are in the phone and that after two years they're basically going to get a quarter of the range. [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas, you know, we have found out that with our model S or 2014 model S, the thing that breaks is the car, the battery still is 91% and we still have 250 miles of range.
[SPEAKER_01]: So speaking of the leaf, I also got to drive it. [SPEAKER_01]: That is a really cool color. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's called C-Phone Blue. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the one that our press car is, and so anyway, the original leaf was, the latest ones actually are very good. [SPEAKER_00]: I like them quite a lot, but they're a little bit of an appliance. [SPEAKER_00]: This new one actually has quite a lot of personalities. [SPEAKER_00]: Got some really neat features going for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: A baby area. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they finally got rid of the Chattamo Charging, which is great. [SPEAKER_00]: I think they finally have climate control batteries. [SPEAKER_01]: They do. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really funky on the inside. [SPEAKER_00]: It's very modern. [SPEAKER_00]: It's got some cool materials. [SPEAKER_00]: So I really think that they've done a nice job. [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of feels like the IKEA of,
[SPEAKER_00]: electric cars well they get rid of the area which is crazy because i just went and test of that for the first time it seemed like yesterday and it's already been discontinued the area the problem with the area though is it was never very competitive with the model y or with the nionic five this is a category below where i think there's more freedom for for choice um or there's more freedom to have you know some it's not as competitive
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you have the Kona EV, you've got the Neuro EV, but this is much more funky than those. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it offers some features that those don't offer. [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what ours costs, and I have a feeling the one. [SPEAKER_01]: One, two, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: That way it's too expensive. [SPEAKER_01]: 39, it's about 40,000, so they start. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a base one, there's one coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's gonna be the S, which is now, yet, which has a smaller battery pack. [SPEAKER_01]: This one has, I believe it's, if I remember right, 75 kilowatt hour, which is a pretty good size battery pack. [SPEAKER_01]: So it gets around 300 miles of range. [SPEAKER_01]: Can you get all that right? [SPEAKER_01]: No, only from when driving. [SPEAKER_01]: But this one that we're looking at the first edition, which is loaded, is right around 40.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's got that photocrumatic sunroof, right? [SPEAKER_01]: The changes from opaque to clear. [SPEAKER_01]: The weird thing about the leaf is it's got two chargers, one on the other side. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm showing it right there. [SPEAKER_01]: And one is AC and one is DC, which is very confusing. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, but that's a test support. [SPEAKER_01]: That is a test support. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's right. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Nissan has AC charging with, with, they've got AC charging with J-1772, and then they do DC charging with the test support if I remember right. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: So now not only do you still need dongles, but depending on which side of the car you pull up by it might need a different dongle. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: That's insane. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a terrible decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is gonna be like, we're gonna look back at this in 50 years. [SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Years with most of the flaps open. [SPEAKER_00]: This is like the horsey, horsey head horseless carriage. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: This is like the weird transition period from J plugs to Knack's ports. [SPEAKER_01]: But you potentially could need two different dongles if you want it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's pretty silly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course, at home, you're going to be using one port. [SPEAKER_01]: And when you go faster, it's just using another port. [SPEAKER_00]: But I bet you could charge ACNDC on the test support. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, probably but I bet you can't do DC on the on the. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no. [SPEAKER_01]: You can't charge the Tesla's only It's very confusing. [SPEAKER_01]: I forgot not, but it's problematic time.
[SPEAKER_01]: You I think they wanted to give you choice and they gave you too much choice Unfortunately, what do you think of the interior? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I really like the car. [SPEAKER_00]: I just think 42 is a lot of money But everything's a lot of money now.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no tax credit anymore [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's kind of a bit of an ask for this car especially without all wheel drive I mean because you can you can get a pretty good model 3 now for but you know much of the country world doesn't need all wheel drive right We're here in Colorado where if you're gonna go [SPEAKER_01]: Live through into you probably want to oil dry, but like I said much of the world doesn't need it I just think that they really improved it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They made it I mean the problem with the leaf was even though This is a third generation believer in that is most people think that the first one has been only one generation But there's now three generation. [SPEAKER_01]: Well Sort of well that's what Nissan says. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what they're gonna say But the first generation and the second generation of the same car. [SPEAKER_00]: They're very similar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're the same platform [SPEAKER_01]: But finally, it's competitive, and it's modern, and it's got fast enough charging. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's 150. [SPEAKER_01]: It's still not super fast, but it has climate control batteries. [SPEAKER_01]: It can precondition the batteries, so it can do the stuff that most electric cars have been able to do for the last 10 years. [SPEAKER_01]: So finally, the leaf can do it. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's fun and funky, which is saying a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: It drives well. [SPEAKER_01]: It drives like an electric car. [SPEAKER_01]: There's not a lot of, [SPEAKER_01]: It's got one weird thing which I don't understand so Nissan pioneered this you remember in the old leaf You've got this little button that says one pedal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said e-pedal e-pedal the new one doesn't have that it does it No, it doesn't really do it doesn't do like it so the old one would come to a complete stop and You would just be able to stop and then of course when you went again Then you could just let it reach in all the way to the stop the new one will always creep you can't have no creep and then you have five levels of your [SPEAKER_00]: it to turn creep off.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the first one, I think Nissan pioneered the one petal. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is still a petal. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not. [SPEAKER_00]: So you can use a paddle so there's four different regions. [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's a fifth if you hit the E petal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's five different levels of region, but there's none that actually take the car to a complete stop so that you can take your foot off the brake so that at the stop like you don't have to like, you know, keep the brake on. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think Nissan did pioneered that and now they got rid of it, [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure I know you you got that look on your face like I'm wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: I just drove for leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know but I was at the launch and we had a long discussion about that. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I think it's a good car. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that it's it's way better than the old one. [SPEAKER_00]: I I think it's all going to come down to what are these actually going to transact for at the dealership. [SPEAKER_01]: If you can or how much you're going to release for.
[SPEAKER_00]: or what they're going to lease for, but with the incentives going away in seven days, I don't think that the lease deals are going to be that crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: Leaf has not had great timing. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let's talk about my Toyota trip. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so four cars to drove. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I drove and the embargo is up now, so I drove the refresh, curl across and curl across hybrid.
[SPEAKER_00]: I drove the 26-year-croll, and actually interviewed the chief engineer of GeoCroll, which is pretty cool. [SPEAKER_01]: All those videos are coming to AltiaFeld.com. [SPEAKER_00]: They should be there already, by the time this goes life. [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I can't talk about driving impressions because this is patriotic. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's okay. [SPEAKER_00]: There's not a lot to talk about with driving impressions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I've got... What else did I drive? [SPEAKER_00]: I drove the GR86-UZ, and then the final edition Supras. [SPEAKER_00]: What's the use of? [SPEAKER_00]: So the use is a special addition of the GR86, they're only building 860 them for North America. [SPEAKER_00]: I like their color. [SPEAKER_00]: This is the same color they used in 2015 on the Sion FRS Series 1. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's really cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: The most interesting thing about the use is not the color or the body kit. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the exhaust. [SPEAKER_00]: It's got a crazy loud exhaust and it's very loud when you go down the road. [SPEAKER_00]: There's no driving impression on use. [SPEAKER_00]: 6b manual transmission mid $30,000. [SPEAKER_00]: I actually think it's a really fun car. [SPEAKER_00]: Drive it on the track a little bit and it was a blast.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was one of I actually think that these are going to be pretty collectible one day because they're not building a lot of them. [SPEAKER_00]: They've got a really distinctive color that's exhaust is really distinctive. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a lot of potential for collectability. [SPEAKER_01]: The code looks like it looks like a vehicle we used on. [SPEAKER_01]: What's that? [SPEAKER_01]: First edition Bronco. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah it's pretty similar.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking at this picture so is it when you get it in the light is it it's so what we're looking at in case you're listening to this is a slash orange slash yellow slash orange yellow GR86 and Would you say it's similar to the bronco and then it's kind of a bright yellow with a little bit of orange thrown in or is it a bright orange with a little bit of yellow thrown in? [SPEAKER_00]: No, when you see it in person, there's no orange so it's very yellow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that has orange. [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of looks like big bird Okay, yeah, but it's got some yellow stitching on the inside so it's mostly a trim package But I like that a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: I forgot how much I like the G-86 and then we drove him back to back with the standard one and the biggest difference is just that crazy sound out of the exhaust [SPEAKER_01]: Really a horsepower. [SPEAKER_01]: Does it have more?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's still 228. [SPEAKER_00]: It's got Brembo brakes. [SPEAKER_00]: Which is awesome. [SPEAKER_00]: It's got sack stampers So it's got some you know handling things here and there, but it really is the sound. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a big difference. [SPEAKER_00]: What does it come out now? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah It's out. [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, maybe it might be next month [SPEAKER_00]: The other car I drove, which I think is going to be even more collectible, is the GR-Cerole I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: The GR-Super final edition. [SPEAKER_01]: So these are two cars we would put on the list of biome, don't buy a new, don't remember we were doing this list after this, but both of these buy new, because you're going to be getting cars that are relatively low volume.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the final addition, GR Super, they're only doing 1,300 for North America, and there's two things going on, there's the standard one, they're doing 900 of those, and then there's this black one with the graphics on the side, and this is called the GT4 style package, and they're only doing 400 of these, and if you can find a GR Super final addition with the GT4 style package,
[SPEAKER_00]: and a manual transmission, that's one of only a couple of cars I can think of period, new cars, that I think would be a good investment. [SPEAKER_00]: Because Toyota has a huge following, super has a huge following, similar to Land Cruiser, and you remember the Land Cruiser Heritage Edition at the very end of the 200s? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those those never went down. [SPEAKER_00]: They actually went up, they were selling for like $110, $120,000 even a year old.
[SPEAKER_00]: or a few years old. [SPEAKER_00]: Now they're still selling for over 100 grand. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think a GR final edition super with the manual and the GT4 package which gives you the wing. [SPEAKER_00]: The final edition gives you some suspension tweaks, it gives you some additional camber, the carbon fiber wing, some patch on the front end. [SPEAKER_00]: The with the GT4 style package like 72. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, compared to a 911. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I will count. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot cheaper than a hundred eleven, but I drove that thing on the track. [SPEAKER_00]: I drove it a little bit on the road and it is such a blast. [SPEAKER_00]: That's six B manual. [SPEAKER_00]: It's so good to be in the B transmission. [SPEAKER_00]: So, of course, we went along.
[SPEAKER_01]: When the first came out and the rub was at all the [SPEAKER_01]: Toyota people were bummed that it had a BMW power train and all the BMW people were bummed that it had a Toyota of body.
[SPEAKER_01]: And over time, I think that decision to partner to build this car has actually become more positive than negative because that's six cylinder, that's straight six in the superized being used in a lot of different cars, including I believe the [SPEAKER_01]: And it's very robust, so I think just like the Mark 4, this is going to be a car that you can easily you know, modify and it will have a long life beyond, you know, the model year when it's done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, B58 engine, code developed with Toyota, but great sound, great power delivery, 382 horsepower. [SPEAKER_00]: The only problem, the only big problem I have is I don't think. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's what, so on Patreon, if you want to support the podcast, Patreon.com, slash GIF, a car, you can watch it live. [SPEAKER_00]: And Tad P says, I wish you fit the new Supra, I know I'm one of the few that actually likes it.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's actually the following on Supra's has grown quite a bit in recent years. [SPEAKER_00]: People are realizing that, yeah, it's going to be in the W Engine, but it's still going to be in the W Engine, like that's not a pet thing to have. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that car on the track. [SPEAKER_01]: The problem with it was for me, I can't get my head. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, their head is right, they're pretty small.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other problem is a roof kind of comes down on the side. [SPEAKER_01]: So not only is it tight for me like one size too small in terms of the fit of the car, when I look sideways, I'm looking into the actual roof as opposed to looking out. [SPEAKER_01]: And if I'm wearing a helmet and I got a crank that seat so far back, I'm driving like Andre. [SPEAKER_01]: And dynamically it's a really great car. [SPEAKER_01]: You can modify it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it looks really great But they made it just like the Mazda Miata one size too small for big American people, which is you know I'm six tove so I think if you're six tove and you've got a long body like I do it the car is just not gonna work for you And that's a shame because I would love to own one. [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to own a Miata same problem [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I fit okay without a helmet on with the helmet on, it's kind of game over.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, genuinely like that car, a tremendous amount. [SPEAKER_00]: It was really, really good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's quick, and it's manual, which, you know, what other car can you buy that's manual nowadays besides the 9-11? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you can get the Niz Mozi. [SPEAKER_00]: That's coming as a manual now. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's coming as a manual, but those are also in the 70s.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is much less of an athletic car, more of a GT than a track car, whereas to me, the super is very much at home on track. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they did a really good job with it. [SPEAKER_00]: So as a whole, the car is excellent. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a it's fantastic. [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely get the final edition. [SPEAKER_00]: My only complaint is if you look up coal in Europe and Japan, they've got a version of this car called the a 90 final edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and this is kind of what I wish that we got in the state. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is even harder course. [SPEAKER_00]: It's got a huge ring in the back. [SPEAKER_00]: It's got 429 horsepower. [SPEAKER_00]: It's got much more aggressive seats. [SPEAKER_00]: So they breeze the performance into the engine. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I don't know why they didn't just give us this one in the US. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that look how much more aggressive the suspension's lower right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a totally different car. [SPEAKER_00]: Look at the bracing in the back. [SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of feel like the Americans are getting like the, [SPEAKER_01]: I hate those seats already yeah, but they're cool. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna fit. [SPEAKER_00]: No, you probably won't, but they're bad ass Like this is this is such a cool car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like they're like those um BMW and Porsche competition seats Right where they're basically torture devices But basically who's who's like fat they get more power they get more power different interior and a huge wing We get a little bit of carbon fiber and some final this graphics right. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm gonna could I be grumpy old man for a sec? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know I'm not going to stop you. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you could try stopping me, but I'm talking to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, the people who can afford these cars are older guys for the most part. [SPEAKER_01]: So sure, you know, build them for 20 year olds, like that's another problem. [SPEAKER_01]: Civic type are the same problem with that competition seed. [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to solve to people who actually have the money to buy them, you may want to consider making that seed a little bit more comfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying a lot more comfortable, but you know, the people who are buying these in America, maybe this is the reason that the European one is so much more aggressive, is most of us won't be tracking it because tracking is a very specific thing that a very small portion of [SPEAKER_01]: Sports car buyers do most people in America.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think buy them to take the cars in coffee To take on a weekend drive, you know, to maybe have fun with every so often in the mountains if you live here But they're not putting them on the track and unless you're on a track those hardcore competition sports seats are just torture devices right they're hard to get in and out of [SPEAKER_01]: They're painful to sit in, and I don't understand why we can't devise a seed.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does kind of the same thing that that competition seed does, but at the same time is comfortable to sit in, and I think I know the reason to me. [SPEAKER_01]: Why? [SPEAKER_01]: Because the competition seeds say more about what the character of the car is than about the character of the person who's buying it, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like a giant wing. [SPEAKER_01]: You don't need a giant wing driving to Starbucks, because it's all about downforce, but
[SPEAKER_01]: You still want it because it looks cool and it says that the car is ultimately the most capable track worthy vehicle possible and that's the same thing with the seat the seat says look at this I bought the sportiest and most hard core car and now to get in it after torture myself I think they're kind of like you know the kind of like heels in that they're you know beautiful but they're impossible
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I mean, I do for the most part I do agree with you that I don't think, but when you're selling this few units and it's supposed to be this hardcore, like I do understand the reasoning for putting [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like buying a Bronco Raptor on 37's, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need 37's, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You're compromising your on-road fuel economy, you're compromising your handling. [SPEAKER_00]: But you're making a more comfortable, put some ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can say 37's a little bit, we've got a lot more sidewalls. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm not sure it's more comfortable than 35 though. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's kind of like an example of like, unless you're on a rock-crawling course, you don't need the tire, but it's cool to have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would say a better example of that would be in the off-road world is, [SPEAKER_01]: of it, for example, something that makes the car perform better, but makes it much harder to drive and use. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's tires. [SPEAKER_00]: Like a 37 inch tire, kills your fuel economy. [SPEAKER_01]: It kills your handling a little bit. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm not sure about that. [SPEAKER_01]: I like 37s because there's no, there's no downside in my mind for 37s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you get your fuel economy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then if you can buy a hat card, you can afford a third. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's harder, if you can, yeah, it's harder to get it out of. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it doesn't handle as well. [SPEAKER_00]: You got more unsprung weight. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm tall, so it's actually easier. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like tall vehicles.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as a whole, I do agree with you that sports seats aren't usually my jam, but I would appreciate them doing something more than just colors and stitching. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let me ask you this. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, fair enough. [SPEAKER_01]: You've been in that BMW competition seat, you know, the one with the little hockey puck insert by your private parts there. [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think of that seat? [SPEAKER_01]: Do you like that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you want to car with that seat? [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not taking it on the canyons, you know, people that are buying these are usually driving them pretty hard. [SPEAKER_01]: But we just did it with the ZR1, the C4, ZR1, right? [SPEAKER_01]: We got those sports seats and I had just probably the worst thousand miles in my life. [SPEAKER_01]: That's because it's a 35-year-old car. [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't have bought those seats if I had the choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: The seat made it miserable. [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I wouldn't have bought those seats if I had the choice. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a competition seat. [SPEAKER_00]: The bolsters are so nice. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I'm not, I'm not just agreeing with you. [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't have bought those seats. [SPEAKER_00]: But then you're buying an old car, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You only have so many options.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it was up to me, I would have bought the comfort season that car, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I think they all came with that. [SPEAKER_00]: No, you can get them three seats. [SPEAKER_00]: These are ones. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, three seats. [SPEAKER_01]: Whoever bought it got the wrong seats. [SPEAKER_00]: They got the most aggressive, apparently. [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so I really like the GR. [SPEAKER_00]: Supras, they're going to go down to history is being very, very desirable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a moment I probably regret not buying one, but they're really hard to find. [SPEAKER_00]: And I just don't want to go to the hassle of this. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's switch. [SPEAKER_01]: Quickly to the Coral across which has been refreshed. [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going from sports cars to more mundane, I don't know if I was saying mundane, but more, you know, everyday cars, what about the new Coral across?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, basically it's a Coral that's been kind of sort of lifted, that's a little bit more, you know, SUV versus car. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's been out for a couple of years now, for 26, the biggest thing, go to the left coal. [SPEAKER_00]: So they put a new nose on the hybrid one, so the hybrid's got kind of a flat nose, then if you go to the right, you can see the non hybrid, it's got kind of a more of a beak to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like it better, I like the styling better, it looks a little bit more purposeful. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I curl across like it's not a particularly exciting car, but they sell hundreds of thousands of them. [SPEAKER_00]: And it makes sense why they just have the right amount of space, the right amount of utility, the right price point. [SPEAKER_00]: So it competes with like a CRH, right, the smaller hander. [SPEAKER_00]: No, HRV. [SPEAKER_00]: HRV, sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, HRV, it can be with the Kona, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And it competes with the sportage or not the sportage. [SPEAKER_00]: No, the little one, the little Kia, the cell toast, there it is. [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I liked it a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the 26 update is not- For the nose is so different on the hybrid. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like a different car. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it looks better than the standard one. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just a great car, right? [SPEAKER_00]: They've got two different power trains. [SPEAKER_00]: You get 169 horsepower, gas one. [SPEAKER_00]: You get 196 horsepower, hybrid one. [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely get the hybrid, because you can get up to 40 MPG combined. [SPEAKER_00]: What's it for again? [SPEAKER_00]: I think the ones we drove were fully loaded, and they were like 36, 34, 35, 36, somewhere in that territory. [SPEAKER_00]: So, really liked it a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's going to be a great car for somebody. [SPEAKER_01]: Would you say that it's become a little bit more, I mean, we don't want to talk about driving approaches, I was going to say fun to drive, but a little bit more fun in general because the the the problem with this car, at least for me, was it was kind of joyless.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was more [SPEAKER_01]: just a utility commuter that you would buy because you needed something to get you to work and you needed something to head a little bit more room and maybe head a little bit more usability so instead of getting a crolla you would get this but in terms of kind of joy there was not a lot of joy in the thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's no more drawing this way, so you can get in cavalry blue, which is a cool color.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, so there's a little bit of fish. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you get a soul crystal metal red metallic, if you want the, if you want the Mazda color. [SPEAKER_00]: Mazda color, but there's no like, yeah, it's, you wouldn't be like, you wouldn't like turn around after you got out of it. [SPEAKER_00]: No, but this is not a car for that, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's designed to last a long time and just be a very comfortable place.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get a new port of bellow mushroom interior, which is kind of fun, but like, there's not a lot of fizz in this car, but it does not supposed to have a lot of fizz, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a GR product. [SPEAKER_01]: Cool, could you go down? [SPEAKER_01]: The fuel economy is always on their pricing. [SPEAKER_01]: So it starts at 24 for the base L and then you get up to the hybrid of 20. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's up, no, actually, the XL Lee is 29.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hybrid, S.E. [SPEAKER_01]: is 30. [SPEAKER_00]: So like they said, they good like it's 33. [SPEAKER_00]: But you can get like it's a 40 MPG combined. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's good. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a great car, so I strongly recommend that to anybody who's looking into getting, just a small run around. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the best in the class. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't need the size and the expense of a RAF4, exactly, this is a car you would buy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I think it's been a Honda, it's better than the Hyundai and Kia. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I mean, potentially you could crash at this like a Bronco sport. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a little bigger. [SPEAKER_00]: But the more I throw the Oh, yeah, for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: This is not very off-road. [SPEAKER_00]: But love the car. [SPEAKER_00]: You took it off road, didn't you? [SPEAKER_00]: Barely. [SPEAKER_00]: It was like a dirt road. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not much off-road. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I really like this thing a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the last one I drove is the Jerk Rola. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, has had some very small tweaks or 2026. [SPEAKER_00]: It's got 46 more feet worth of bonding material in the body. [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot more glue. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's got some suspension tweaks. [SPEAKER_00]: It changed around some bolts.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got another intake to keep it cool for the Nurburgring. [SPEAKER_00]: This thing was really designed for the Nurburgring. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's cool to have the engineer like they really... [SPEAKER_00]: What Toyota does, that I think not every company does, is they build a product and then they have the same product for multiple years, but every year they're constantly revising it and they're making it just a little better. [SPEAKER_00]: So they're changing the geometry.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're changing the design of the bolts that hold the sum frame on and you think who cares, but it has a huge impact on [SPEAKER_00]: they use the same torque to yield bolts and nor stars for 20 years that were failing left right and they didn't change them until 2006 or seven I'm like what why so that's the difference that's what makes Toyota special is that they have a product if it's wrong they fix it and if it's right they make it better.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing I would say Tommy is there does seem to be a sense of Toyota doing a little bit more cost cutting recently and I would point to the new Tundra where they had to replace 100,000 engines. [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: We're point to our Tacoma, you know, where the front diff failed on us pretty quickly. [SPEAKER_01]: There's some other issues that are coming to light that Tacoma has had some transmission issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just wondering if to be competitive, they are doing a little, because obviously one of two of those biggest selling points is reliability. [SPEAKER_01]: And I wonder if that is just not quite word used to be, or is it just me kind of looking [SPEAKER_01]: looking back, finally at cars like the old four runner, the old Tacoma, the highlights that just had these bulletproof reputations.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that they're doing a little bit of nostcutting or you think it's just me? [SPEAKER_00]: No, and I think that we look back with Rose Colour Glasses. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm wondering. [SPEAKER_00]: But we forget all the problems ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they had to replace the frames on every frame on every second gen to come right but that third gen foreigner was pretty bulletproof no fifth gen sorry fifth gen foreigners pretty bulletproof to new six gen I kind of felt like it was expensive and that there was a little bit less I mean, I think they were plastic and the thing yeah, I don't know if this trick is you get no fifth gen interior like oh [SPEAKER_01]: So like I'm not sure about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like and you look at the Tundra engine, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a big effort, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Certainly, but we're placing every single one. [SPEAKER_00]: Did GM recall every North Star and say we're going to fix this and give you a new engine? [SPEAKER_00]: No, they just kind of modeled through fixing it at dealerships only for it to fail two years later. [SPEAKER_01]: Or could it be also that cars are becoming much more complicated there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's more like it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's harder to develop a car. [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to last as reliably as a vehicle with less electronics and still meet the needs and the demands of consumers to have the technology that they expect. [SPEAKER_01]: Having said that, I think most car, you know, when I was growing up, if you can get an LTD for the last 100,000 miles, it was incredible, right? [SPEAKER_01]: You were like, oh my god, this car has 100,000 miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think twice about buying a car with 100,000 miles on the O'Donnell, or just because in general cars and trucks, you know, now live well into 200,000 mile range, depending on, of course, you know, how they were taking care of the biggest issue I think we've talked about this in the past is deferred maintenance. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what kills them. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's not the engineering.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the people who basically just don't do the maintenance networks required. [SPEAKER_00]: Or if you get an old Honda [SPEAKER_00]: more than 50,000 miles before they rested. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was a big problem. [SPEAKER_00]: These are the 80s and even in the 90s. [SPEAKER_00]: So before Governor and I steal and before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that even though it's easy to say these cars are getting less reliable, if you look at the data and yesterday our issues and yes, it's also brand new generation of everything, I'm not sure that they are actually that worse. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you drive anything else? [SPEAKER_00]: Is that it? [SPEAKER_00]: Is there a DR crew? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we just talked about. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so those are the cars that drive on the trip?
[SPEAKER_01]: I drove something. [SPEAKER_01]: I got to go to Aspen, which I had been to for a while, and keep in mind guys, Aspen is probably one of the most expensive cities in Colorado, if not the entire country, so it was kind of nice. [SPEAKER_01]: Portion invited me to go drive the MacCon. [SPEAKER_01]: Evie and really enjoyed that car first of all. [SPEAKER_01]: I borrowed I took the I8 and drove it over into Pennants pass and oh my god Was that so much fun?
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to get back early from the program so I left like at five in the morning and there was no traffic And I have to say I may have exceeded the speed limit a few times Tommy. [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm [SPEAKER_01]: But it reinforced the fact that the I8 is just one half a great touring car, unbelievable fuel economy. [SPEAKER_01]: It gets, I think I was getting 47 MPG combined for the way out and back to Aspen, which is, you know, probably seven hour drive there and back.
[SPEAKER_01]: over mountain passes and driving and very hard. [SPEAKER_01]: When you start to push it a little bit, it starts to understand. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's neutral until you start to push it and then it does start to plow a little bit. [SPEAKER_01]: But in general, it is such a comfortable car. [SPEAKER_01]: It's still good looks. [SPEAKER_01]: I brought it to the hotel. [SPEAKER_01]: I validated they were like, wow, great car.
[SPEAKER_01]: They thought it was brand new and of course it's 2014. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was BMW's moonshot and finally now people are starting to understand all the technology that's in that car. [SPEAKER_01]: So like the super cars, hypercars of old, I'm talking about the McLaren, the Porsche, the the the holdy Trinity. [SPEAKER_01]: This car had that same power train. [SPEAKER_01]: It had, I believe, three electric, three electric, no, two electric motors.
[SPEAKER_01]: One for the front and the one for three. [SPEAKER_01]: Is it three electric motors? [SPEAKER_01]: It had two transmissions. [SPEAKER_01]: It had about 20 miles of all battery, oh, what your power range, you can switch from all battery to internal combustion. [SPEAKER_01]: It is missing the V8 that the Holy Trinity had. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I had, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got the BMW 3-liter turbo, but I was very happy with the turbo, and it led Ville, because I went through lead Ville. [SPEAKER_01]: America's tallest highest city at whatever that is, 11,000 feet above sea level, that turbo was just loving the fact that there was not a lot of air.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was passing cars left and right on some of these, you know, Colorado roads in the morning, just a really wonderful car, super comfortable, the technology, both has held up with everything that's going on, two transmissions for God's takes. [SPEAKER_01]: That is not an easy thing to make work. [SPEAKER_01]: Seamless seeing you have for the most part it works seamlessly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the you know the Goldwing doors if you don't have to get them in and out of them all the time there They make a statement when you ride and they can statement when you leave It's got enough of a little boot in the back where you can put your case in there and even though the seat doesn't have a Barsupport. [SPEAKER_01]: It's ultimately comfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: So one hell of a car now the Porsche Maccon EV [SPEAKER_01]: Great car, tons of power, all kinds of different specs on it. [SPEAKER_01]: But the one thing I would say is it's very expensive. [SPEAKER_01]: The one I drove was $102,000 MSRP. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's just a big pill to swallow, especially considering that you can get a Maccom gasoline for less, which I would say is probably a little bit more fun to drive. [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think of the style?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like it, and we're looking at it right now. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it looks pretty cool. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the second full electric Porsche in the lineup, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Follows a tie-con. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, very advanced in here about architecture, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Very impressive performance. [SPEAKER_00]: Try to do super quick. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but this is definitely one of the cars, and transitioning a little bit to our list.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would never buy this car new. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think it's got up to 375 kilowatts of charging. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's lightning fast, but you're right because this is going to decrease, let's face it, any electric car is probably not a car you want to buy, but you want to lease because otherwise you're going to take a huge hit on depreciation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think any new electric car and I, I mean, I think part of that reason is kind of what we touched on earlier is people do kind of associate EVs with cell phones. [SPEAKER_00]: It seems like a piece of tech that you buy and then Mike quickly become outdated, right? [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason that like old iPhones don't have as much value. [SPEAKER_00]: as, you know, the typical car over a couple years feel like the percentages.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that people are very hesitant to buy EVs used, and therefore, they depreciate incredibly quickly. [SPEAKER_00]: We saw this with Tycons. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, McCon EVs still pretty new, but Tycons came out what four years ago. [SPEAKER_00]: and they were 120 realistically 130 and now they're in the 50s and 60s for a lot of them. [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a new one up in Alaska. [SPEAKER_01]: I was in a Doug's podcast and you found it so I have to give him credit.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I went there and encouraged they had a new 2023 that was this is a tycon that was 146,000 which is 104,000 now. [SPEAKER_01]: So down 40,000 in two years brand new. [SPEAKER_01]: Well it was never. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean at this point that's a used car. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's still new. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know everyone's sold, but it's three years old. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: True. [SPEAKER_00]: That car probably hit the lot in 22 if it's a model of your 23. [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think they're going to sell. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a four-wheel drive. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you're going to sell it for 104. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's probably more than 70 or 80,000 cars in Alaska. [SPEAKER_00]: So that does hurt its sales potentials being in all like your car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Colby, you can fast-forward to the interior on the tech on the Macon. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so the other thing I would say about Porsche is that they do feel very well screwed together and they feel very expensive. [SPEAKER_01]: This color combination, you know, Gavin, he, I think he sourced this, so I love that for Calvin. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, Calvin. [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, Calvin. [SPEAKER_01]: Just make sure with our intern.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's sourced as I think it was his spec so he did this incredible forest green with this wonderful brown interior Really great color combinations maroon isn't maroon is it brown it's brown okay, so forest green with brown classic color combo But you can just see how nicely everything is put together how everything just fits well. [SPEAKER_01]: There's just a lot of quality [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing I don't like about these interiors is how everything is so in the screen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, you got four toggles there for climate control, but everything else is pretty much in the screen. [SPEAKER_01]: Look at the steering wheel, you got real good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm like the steering wheel. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the Audi, which is basically based on this. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about the Q5, Q6. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that has have to control everywhere, and at least the third screen in this car does have real controls.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, they went too far. [SPEAKER_00]: What was the sticker on this? [SPEAKER_01]: 100 in 2000. [SPEAKER_00]: The Audi we had, which is largely the same car, was like 77 grand. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this was the, this was the Macon S. Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's all wheel drive. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's got like 550 horsepower. [SPEAKER_01]: I just had on my phone and I should have deleted it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's got, it's got tons of power, it's got, of course, [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we'll drive. [SPEAKER_01]: This one came specced with summer tires. [SPEAKER_01]: And Calvin was gracious enough to let us actually take it out of dirt road. [SPEAKER_01]: Nice. [SPEAKER_01]: It was so much fun driving it out of dirt road. [SPEAKER_01]: You could actually let it loose a little bit if you turned off the traction control.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Porsche initially announced that they were going to use Apple Ultra as their OS, but they've kind of walked away from it. [SPEAKER_01]: So they're now using, and this car is using a Google based Android, sorry, an Android based infotainment system, kind of like Chevy does with its own skin on top of it, with the Porsche skin. [SPEAKER_01]: And it actually works really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing I love about Porsche is as you can turn off all the nannies just by clicking on that little switch below. [SPEAKER_01]: So you can, you know, the, the, the, the, the, [SPEAKER_01]: you can turn off the steering wheel shake or whatever it is, you know, the haptic controls when when you're crossing the line and so you can kind of get it back to neutral, but 102,000 year exactly right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Three years from now this is going to be a kind of fear of 50,000 dollar car. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that G. [SPEAKER_00]: So the thing with portions is they all depreciate if they don't have a 911 badge on the back of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So which is one you want to buy and Hold on to we bought a 911 Taga S a few years ago I was lucky to get an allocation lucky to get an allocation because I know a friend of mine who was managing A land of restore, but they also had a Porsche store so he helped me get an allocation. [SPEAKER_01]: We bought that for 158,000 and we sold it for 150,000 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is pretty amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so that's a car that you want to buy and I bet you that car was probably worth more than 158 because the dealer we sold it to didn't sell it for 150 and he sold it over the sticker, even after a year and 3000 miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So, they keep getting more expensive because I think Porsche realized that if the market is saying that these cars are going over sticker, then they should just be taking those profits for themselves and not giving into the dealer. [SPEAKER_00]: So, they are getting more expensive, but yeah, 9-11's really don't appreciate over the first couple of years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, like when you talk about 20-year-old ones, they get pretty cheap, but for the first few years. [SPEAKER_01]: They don't get pretty cheap. [SPEAKER_01]: 9-11's don't get pretty cheap, unless you're a 9-9-6, that's about the only one.
[SPEAKER_01]: 30 grand, 25. [SPEAKER_01]: as cheaper than 158 right but anyhow let's say a 991 that's not cheap any of the you know any of the the ones after the first air cooled 996 is they also really hold their value water cooled i'm sorry water cool yeah [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, other cars that I think you should probably never buy new. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I like your list. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's start with the first one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this was one that just got, I think you should never buy period, but go ahead. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I, this is a car that's great use, but new. [SPEAKER_00]: They depreciate like rocks. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, the BMW XM. [SPEAKER_00]: So these are like a hundred and eighty some thousand dollars. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you go to Auto Trader Cole, [SPEAKER_00]: and then type in BNW, yep. [SPEAKER_00]: And then filter for XN.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think BNW, I hate to say this, but I'm gonna say it. [SPEAKER_01]: I think BNW asked a question and answered a question with that card that nobody was asking me. [SPEAKER_01]: That is what, what would you do if you built a car in this case across over specifically for a Romanian gangster? [SPEAKER_01]: And this is a card that you come up with. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this was a really weird thing right so it does not doesn't it does not fall within like the X5 X6 family.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's a hybrid so call on the left there go scroll up Let's do any distance Yeah, nationwide and then on the right go sort by price lowest. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see what the the cheaper XMs are doing in the US [SPEAKER_00]: So use 96,000 miles, it has 96,000 miles as 7,000 miles. [SPEAKER_00]: Keep going down, Cole. [SPEAKER_00]: Keep going. [SPEAKER_00]: $79,000, $79,000, these are cards with $38,000, $40,000,000, so they're essentially half priced in two, three years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a bad combination of it doesn't fall within the hierarchy of BMW. [SPEAKER_00]: Plus it's electrified, it's got a hybrid system. [SPEAKER_00]: Plus it was $180,000,000 new. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is an example of these ultra premium SUVs. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they hold their value very well. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it might be, this might be kind of a one-off though, you know, it might be an outlier. [SPEAKER_01]: It's such a unique and weird car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand it. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand why BMW built it. [SPEAKER_01]: When I drove it, I thought to myself, this is like, this is very gotty, it screams, you know, over the top, everything, and so it might be an outlier in that regard, but you're right. [SPEAKER_01]: That is a car that [SPEAKER_01]: You're better off if you're really one and next time go get yourself a used one and you can save Half the money from off a new one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and I think we see this not only with BMW But pretty much any Especially now any luxury sedans specifically ever so we're talking being w a eight or outie eight being the seven series Yeah, that's class.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think traditionally any of the big sedans as class seven series a eight as a they just appreciate like rocks and I think those [SPEAKER_01]: vehicles really only sell like I think in Europe what happens is if you work up high enough in a company you get a company car and those sedans are given to you as a kind of a reward for being an executive at whatever company then you get them from the company for three years and afterwards they just fall off the cliff.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think any sedans right now are selling. [SPEAKER_01]: And they obviously don't depreciate as much as that as those three, but even, you know, in Alexis, Elas, right, is not going to hold its value. [SPEAKER_00]: Tad P brings up a good point. [SPEAKER_00]: The VNDVXM was supposed to be VNV's answer to the GWag, and although we have heard rumblings, the VNW is doing an actual off-road SUV to keep you up. [SPEAKER_01]: an answer to the G-Wagon.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't go off road. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this had like 22's with big sticky summer tires that had what 750 horsepower or something, just some huge amount of horsepower. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think what the G-Wagon is, is it's not feud as an ultimate off-roader. [SPEAKER_00]: still has three lockers. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but people view that as a status symbol.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and BMW's trying to build a bold status as a symbol like the G wagon status is built on its off-road capability It's not built on its on-road capability because on-road they're not great. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, I mean, I think they were going after G wagon maybe Bentega Yeah, I'll give it so so there there is an argument to be made that it could be G wagon-ish [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, I see what you're saying. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll go next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't think I would buy a new Corvette, which is funny, because we just bought one. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we bought a used Corvette. [SPEAKER_01]: And now we bought a new one. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: We traded our used Corvette for a ZO6. [SPEAKER_00]: Not yet, though, because you can't buy him because you're underprivileged. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Corvett, yeah, do we did.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Corvett's do a better job of holding their values in some sports cars, like a pair to like a Z-4. [SPEAKER_01]: Having said that, we did get quite a bit off on the, on the Z-06. [SPEAKER_01]: That's good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we got 10% off, basically. [SPEAKER_01]: That's good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it was 130,000 and we got 10% off on it. [SPEAKER_00]: But look, if you look at like the price of our, I think our C8 standard car.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the CO6 is the CR ones are kind of a different story, but the standard Corvettes. [SPEAKER_00]: Like we are stickered at 92, I want to say. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and we bought it for 70 with 4,000 miles. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is, I mean, the reason part of that problem is that the Corvette had this wacky rollout of the four different Corvettes. [SPEAKER_01]: So when the first Corvette came out, the stingray people wanted it.
[SPEAKER_00]: 58 grand for 2024 Corvette with 28,000. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I look at, look at that, the 2025 Corvette there, 115. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that a Z06? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Z06. [SPEAKER_00]: This is down, seven. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's 24 stingray, 67 with 8,000 miles. [SPEAKER_01]: But I was saying the problem is that when the stingray came out, people wanted it so they paid oversticker.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the Z06 came out and they were like, oh, God, they're going to trade my, [SPEAKER_01]: Stingray for CO6, and so, of course, the CO6 is we're selling over sticker. [SPEAKER_01]: And now that the zero one is here, people are like, I want 1,000 horsepower, 700 isn't enough. [SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, right away, they came out with the zero one X, which is 1,200 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, you know, anything that's not a zero one or zero one X, all of a sudden becomes less desirable, because everybody wants the ultimate core of it. [SPEAKER_01]: Now that's brilliant from Chevrolet's part. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was brilliant until they brought out the Z-R1 and the Z-R1X basically on top of each other. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was weird. [SPEAKER_00]: They should have separated those two. [SPEAKER_00]: At least by a year or two.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, I mean, what it means is that it would be tough for me to justify buying. [SPEAKER_00]: the base car, new, when I see what they do in the use market. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: So, but then is the only criteria for buying a car that you don't lose money on it? [SPEAKER_01]: No, definitely not. [SPEAKER_01]: 100% not.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason we bought the ZO6 is because it's one, I think out of all those, out of all four, that is a sweet spot in the Corvette lineup, and we'll be this sweet spot. [SPEAKER_01]: We haven't driven a Z-R1, but I can't imagine Tommy, [SPEAKER_01]: driving a car on the road that puts out a thousand horsepower to the rear wheels. [SPEAKER_01]: I know there's no such thing as too much displacement, but that might be too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, but you just know reason to have a ZL6, the standard car is too much car. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't think so the standard car is worth it. [SPEAKER_01]: Especially here at altitude, it's not, it's not, it's not that over the top, it's quick, but it's not like, it's not scary quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, we haven't driven, I haven't introduced it in a ZL6, so it'll be funny to see what it's like when you go up another 200 horsepower, uh, but up here at altitude, 485, whatever that thing is, I think, uh, does start to feel a little, little on the slungy side for the ultimate sports car. [SPEAKER_01]: for the ultimate sport. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but, and when you, especially when you've reset the bar with, like, Tesla Model as plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're still talking about a car that had altitude, does a quarter mile and 12, whatever fine. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but 10 is a new 12 and I know it was a new 10. [SPEAKER_00]: Then you're just feeding into that narrative that every car is to be fast in the old room. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just just telling you what I feel because electric cars have reset the bar so much. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, we'll find out.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to buy it and hopefully, you know, we didn't lose a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: We basically lost like $5,000 on the one we traded. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but then which is bad six months. [SPEAKER_01]: $1,000 a month. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how much of those exam people are? [SPEAKER_00]: A lot more $1,000 a month. [SPEAKER_01]: So, I guess it's a matter of, you know, and keep this in mind when I say we lost. [SPEAKER_01]: We also created a lot of content.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: So, we also, generally, most people aren't in our enviable position where we make money buying cars because we make videos around it. [SPEAKER_01]: Most people just take the depreciation here. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, keep going. [SPEAKER_01]: We're in a round of time. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think the last one that specifically, obviously, [SPEAKER_00]: Luxury cars appreciate fast, but any luxury sedan. [SPEAKER_00]: That's electric.
[SPEAKER_00]: God never buy that new. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I was just shopping around EQS Mercedes I'd be the stands. [SPEAKER_01]: Just never buy electric car. [SPEAKER_01]: Just lease them. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, but no, I'm good with buying amused. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like look at our Mercedes EQS [SPEAKER_00]: Um, this is crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: If you look at use, uh, especially, it's got 408. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, they're a lot cheaper than that. [SPEAKER_00]: Keep going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, 25 for one of 75,000 miles 27 for one. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a 2022 car. [SPEAKER_00]: 86,000 miles keep going. [SPEAKER_00]: And this isn't a one off 29, 31. [SPEAKER_00]: The 30. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're hideous. [SPEAKER_00]: But they were also $120,000 new and now they're mid-30s with 37,000 miles at cars. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a four-year-old car, three-year-old car, so it's a 20,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a 23,000-year-old car. [SPEAKER_00]: The standard screen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that one's got the normal screen, but these are excellent cars very well engineered very nice to drive the hyper screen. [SPEAKER_00]: You see where the wood is we're looking at. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, most of the 580s I think came standard. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that would be obvious screen. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not unusable. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a little annoying.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the problem with these cars is a rear wheel drive, the 450's, but I love these cars. [SPEAKER_00]: And for 27 to 35 thousand dollars. [SPEAKER_00]: That is the most car you would be amazed how much luxury you have. [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the quietest cars of ever driven. [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the softest, most comfortable cars of ever driven. [SPEAKER_00]: rear wheel steering, I think. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a lot of love, and they are ugly.
[SPEAKER_00]: John, it is right in the comments. [SPEAKER_00]: There are hideous, but you don't get to look at it when you're driving it. [SPEAKER_00]: And when you're driving it, there's so good. [SPEAKER_00]: You do have to look at it when you're barking it. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, when you get out of it, you just make sure you walk away from it. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, they really do like those cars. [SPEAKER_00]: They're really, really great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's part of me that loves a bargain that would love one of those cars and I think if you daily drove it you would love it but the problem with any of these cars is you're also getting to this position and it's not so much with electric cars because electric cars don't have as many parts to break but you get into a position where the cost of repairing the car is more than the value of the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: And with that hyper screen, you could be getting into that position some of these cars. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's cars are really well made. [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't heard of any issues with them. [SPEAKER_00]: And those cars, they're like tricks, so they're not going to have that much. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean Mercedes put countless billions of dollars in that car to make it perfect because it was their first real Halo car that was electric.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would argue in math production, at least. [SPEAKER_00]: So the next thing I'll talk about. [SPEAKER_00]: Can I give you a couple of cars I think you should buy these? [SPEAKER_01]: Never buy used. [SPEAKER_01]: No buy used kind of gave you a couple cars so before we get to the never buy used The ones you should buy used.
[SPEAKER_00]: So these are pretty previous list never buy new right never buy new okay Or buy do we have a list called buy used I have a yeah, I have a list called never buy used so this these are cars that I think [SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you an example, Tacomas, right? [SPEAKER_00]: If you're looking at a 90s Tacoma, great, by that used. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're looking at 2007, great, by that's used.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're looking for a car that's a couple years old or a truck, think you're going to get a value, use Tacomas or terrible values. [SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with Wranglers. [SPEAKER_01]: Same thing with Wranglers, exactly right. [SPEAKER_01]: I listen to the show, the car pro show, and people call in, and they think, this is like old thinking.
[SPEAKER_01]: They think that they can, [SPEAKER_01]: buy a car where somebody is taking the depreciation and they can get a deal on it and they're looking for cars that are super popular. [SPEAKER_01]: So any car that is very popular, you think, you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you another one. [SPEAKER_01]: Lexus GX. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good one. [SPEAKER_01]: That's another one. [SPEAKER_01]: Where you think, you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll let the first buyer take the depreciation and I'll just swoop in and buy it used and get an 85,000 dollar car for $50,000. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's not never going to happen with the GX or Tacoma or a Wrangler. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is exactly what I'm talking about. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is autotraders. [SPEAKER_00]: Stay there, Cole. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, obviously, if you're buying a 90's one, it's going to be four grand.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you look at the 2021 Tacoma listed there, it's a $38,000 truck with 70,000 miles. [SPEAKER_00]: Let that sink in. [SPEAKER_00]: This deal is asking, [SPEAKER_00]: $38,000 for $72,000. [SPEAKER_00]: The base model next to it is got $60,000. [SPEAKER_00]: It's got no options. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a total stripper, $32,000. [SPEAKER_00]: At that point, you're better off spending a few thousand dollars more and just getting a new one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can keep it for a few years and then be one of these idiots to think they can get $35,000 to sell it with $50,000. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what I mean, you call them idiots. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the market. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the market. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a reality. [SPEAKER_00]: The market is a really holdin' value well. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, basically, any cars that don't depreciate, you're just better off to fight the bullet and get a new.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's very few of them. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, Mavericks are one of them. [SPEAKER_00]: Tacoma's four-unders. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Mavericks used to be one of them. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, another one is like, so Ranglers, I think Broncos are that way too. [SPEAKER_01]: I've been looking at these Broncos prices. [SPEAKER_01]: You use Broncos still, hold their value. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we could talk about, like, revelations. [SPEAKER_00]: That's another one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Porsche 911, you're not going to get that cheaper. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we just, we had that. [SPEAKER_00]: That's another one. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a few of them out there. [SPEAKER_00]: They're not as maybe prominent as the cars that fall off the cliffs like rocks. [SPEAKER_00]: Another one. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a really weird one. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I think they finally killed them, but Volvo V60 T8s. [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[SPEAKER_00]: The plug and hybrid Volvo V60s. [SPEAKER_00]: If you get a T8 specifically, those are still like $72,000. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, any, any McLaren? [SPEAKER_00]: Unless you buy that one, which is $3.48. [SPEAKER_00]: Why am I talking about here, Cole? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they're coming down a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: They were really holding their value like crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: The face lift ones are really holding their value.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they have an older battery and a newer battery. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a good example. [SPEAKER_00]: The 21's are at 50, but the 24's still $70,000 a car. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the message here is, if you're going to get a Tacoma or Wrangler or Bronco, 9-11, Maverick, a Maverick, anything that's super popular, just bite the bullet, get the new one, and then you can take the benefit of the lack of depreciation when you go to sell it. [SPEAKER_01]: You'll also have a new car warranty, you'll get that new car smell, and you're not going to make, you're not going to get a bargain on any of those cars. [SPEAKER_01]: That's right, that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, what else? [SPEAKER_01]: You got more cars in your list there? [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. [SPEAKER_00]: That's just some examples. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and if you guys can think of more, I'd love to hear them in the comment section below. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, can I kind of go over a couple of other cars you don't want to buy new? [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Any Range Rover? [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, that's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's another one that's going to appreciate like a, like a, like a, I mean, gosh, I mean, you could buy a Range Rover that's five years old that used to be a hundred and fifty thousand dollars for like 30k.
[SPEAKER_01]: 30 to 35 k so it's 2017, 2018's rain drovers now those are those are 25 to 35,000 cars all day long yeah so if you do want to get a Land Rover Ranger or product definitely I wouldn't buy a new because you're just going to you're just going to bleed money yeah that's true if you have to have that new car smell then think about getting like a G-wagon in that category because a G-wagon will hold its value unlike the rain drover and I don't know
[SPEAKER_01]: any other car where people lust after it so much and then for some reason it falls off a cliff in terms of resale value. [SPEAKER_01]: Why is that with the Range Rover? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's the perceived reliability. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, tell me. [SPEAKER_01]: People just think they're not going to last. [SPEAKER_01]: and they don't last. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, my personal list of cars that I would right now buy used, I think a good one that's come down in value. [SPEAKER_01]: Can you take a look at this call? [SPEAKER_01]: Can you see if you can find one? [SPEAKER_01]: I drove this car on ice, and then I drove it from Crestabute to Colorado, and I really fell in love with it. [SPEAKER_01]: And that is the Stinger GT. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's still expensive. [SPEAKER_01]: Are they still expensive?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I used to be, that was like a $55,000 car. [SPEAKER_01]: And they're much rather than now. [SPEAKER_00]: The other holding the rally. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for five year old Kia, you're still going to be mid 20s. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So those are expensive. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what the 80,000 miles. [SPEAKER_00]: I would assume because it's a Kia. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So basically what you're getting is an Audi with a Kia badge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that was Peter Schreier, who was the designer for Audi who went over to Kia. [SPEAKER_01]: I did this car. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's a car that I would definitely buy used. [SPEAKER_01]: Another one that I think is a hell of a value, and we bought it, and Andre won't get rid of it, is the BMW i3. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those are really good. [SPEAKER_01]: If you want one of the... You can't buy those, the new though. [SPEAKER_01]: No, but if you want, I'm saying you.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want one of the OG, uh... [SPEAKER_01]: range extenders, which I think is still the only range extended you can get until the scout or the ramp come out. [SPEAKER_01]: Then these are cars and actually they're very reliable, they're very well built. [SPEAKER_01]: They get incredible fuel economy. [SPEAKER_01]: If anything, the problem with them is that little is a little gas motor and not the electric. [SPEAKER_01]: The electric ones are almost bulletproof.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had ours with I think 14,000 miles, it was a 2014. [SPEAKER_01]: We bought it like what five years ago and I had to spend two and a half thousand dollars [SPEAKER_01]: uh, uh, charcoal filter emission system fixed because that failed on it because the motor, I'm sorry, the engine was never ever used. [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I have to go. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that why you, like, check that out, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I do, I'm sorry, I have to get to Utah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's been an hour, but I have to get to Utah. [SPEAKER_00]: Tell them why you're going to Utah, and then we'll call it a day. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm driving, um, to the letter of a rally. [SPEAKER_00]: So someone commented about this earlier. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, case I'm going to be there through tomorrow. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to think Nathan, for inviting us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, that's right Nathan and Tom Krier from the the letter of a rally. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're gonna be out there We're gonna do some trails and yeah, I'm supposed to be there for dinner, which I'm realizing we're not gonna make now But it's only 1230. [SPEAKER_00]: You'll be there by 630. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be there by 8. [SPEAKER_00]: No, you'll be because they were trying to see the weather in the mountains [SPEAKER_01]: Is there snow?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, luckily you've got a four wheel drive. [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll probably be there late so I'll do apologize to Ram or to to the letter for folks, but yeah, we'll be there to tomorrow doing the videos and it will be an interesting drive. [SPEAKER_00]: All right guys, well thank you for joining us as always Tommy where should they go to see all of our videos. [SPEAKER_00]: All TFL usually get everybody on Patreon. [SPEAKER_00]: We're watching live very, very cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for your comments. [SPEAKER_00]: We appreciate him. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly right. [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll see you next time. [SPEAKER_00]: Ciao. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you next. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.