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Raise your Hand Texas dot org. Hello and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for May one, twenty twenty three. We're coming at you days late as I returned from some time away from work. My name is Matthew Watkins, Managing editor of News and Politics for the Tribune. This week, I'm joined by our criminal justice reporter, Jolie McCullough. Hey, Jolie, Hey,
thanks for joining us today. We are going to talk about the state's troubled juvenile justice process, a topic that has come up on this show before but has kind of resurfaced in the news due to information about you know, children being transferred from tjj D, the state's criminal juvenile justice agency, to adult prisons, particularly the case of Joshua Keith Beasley, who recently died by
suicide in one of those adult facilities. A kind of warning ahead of time for listeners, this story might at times veer into, you know, somewhat graphic descriptions of violence or or suicide. So um, you know, if you are not comfortable hearing that, you this maybe an episode you you to skip. But Jolie, you know, you had a very powerful story last
week on this topic. We've talked a little bit about the problems at tjj D before, but for those who might not have heard that, I think maybe we should start by just kind of summing up, you know, what we had already known about this agency and the problems it was facing, particularly last year. Yeah, so last year, the Texas General Justice Department tjj D, UM it's five prison it's five youth prisons around the state. They
were struggling with severe understaffing, like historical levels of short staffing. For months, they had less than fifty percent of their officer roles filled. And this kind of had a you know, as one would expect, negative impact on the youth in these detention facilities. UM, children were locked in their cells or up to twenty three hours a day. UM. And in many cases these are cells where it's very small, just kind of a concrete slab with
a mattress, a thin mattress on top. There are no toilets in these cells. So there were children using water bottles, they were using lunch trees as makeshift toilets. UM. They were not getting to go to class for education time. They were getting work packets instead handed to them on their dorms or in their cells. And this UM, during this time, we saw self harm behavior among the youth's skyrocket UM. More and more youth were hurting
themselves. UM. There were some spikes at some of the facilities, of assaults on staff as well. UM. And this was just it was just UM. The agency itself said it was. It was near total collapse. UM. This was as big as an emergency. They could even be calling for themselves. They were just they were really struggling and the kids were hurting because of it. Let's let's take a step back very quickly and because help people kind of understand how, how and why this agency exists and how it
compares to the adult criminal justice system. What is the difference between someone going through I mean aside from their age of course, someone going through the you know, juvenile justice system compared to what you might experience if you're a you know, twenty three year old convicted of a felony going going to a state prison or something like that, or seventeen year old in Texas. UM. Yeah, So basically what we see here is there's been a lot of changes
with how we've handled juvenile justice in the last fifteen years or so. Given that you know, these the Youth Justice Agency never really seems to be able to climb out of crisis. It's kind of always in a state of turmoil, just with spikes of intensity with that, which is what we I saw last year. UM. And so what we've seen more and more over the last decade or and change is that generally speaking, when a child is um you know, commits a crime, they are intended to be kept as like
as as shallow in the system as possible. So generally speaking, they're meant to be handled on the local level with local probation departments in cases where maybe they just have not been able to get the services they need at the local level, or the crime is um is so violent that they are unable to be adequately watched at the local level. They the last resort is meant to
be these juvenile prisons, these five prisons across the state. And so right now there's in for the last year and change, there's been fewer than six hundred youth in these five facilities, and they to be there, you have to have committed a felony. Um. And generally speaking, you're the local officials have deemed that they can't help you at the on their end, either
because of violent behavior, severe mental health needs oftentimes both. Um. So that's kind of where we're at in terms of what these facilities are and who they're meant to handle and are we is it a more rehabilitative process than you would see in the adult prisons too? I mean, is is there a different kind of philosophy or approach to how the people are treated in these Yeah. So the thing with youth, the youth prisons, they are meant to
be rehabilitative, they are meant to be treatment based. Um. Like you know, obviously public safety being a factor as well. But nowhere in like their mission statement, like in their in their description of themselves, nowhere does a safe punitive, whereas you know, the adult prison system, there's you know, discussions of like re entry and abilitation, but the main point of it is public safety and punishment. Right You're being punished for the crime that
you have committed. And so it's they're incredibly different, just you know, from the from the studs, from the foundation, they're meant to handle these things differently. Now, obviously, when you get to short staffing and you end up having these kids in severe isolation a lot, the way that it's changes in practice is obviously different. But the intention here is this is a rehabilitative environment. This is a treatment based environment versus the adult system, which
is a punitive environment. Okay, So with that in mind, you bring up in your story and we have written separately as well about the case of Joshua Keith Beasley. Tell us about him and what he went through. Yeah, So Joshua Keith Beasley Jr. And this was actually written by a freelancer, Lisa Armstrong. She wrote about him last year year when we had our bigger story about how what we talked about earlier, how t JJD was nearing
total collapse, she had a story on him. Essentially, this is a child who was struggling since early childhood with behavioral issues with you know, mental health issues, and at age eleven, was deemed that the best the best solution for him was to be put into a t JJD prison. So this is a child who at age eleven, he was originally on probation for vandalism and then after kicking a school safety officer in violation of that probation, he
was sent to a youth prison. In there, he deteriorated. He had countless, countless episodes of self harm during the pandemic when visitation was halted, he wasn't able to see his mom anymore. He was hospitalized about a dozen times for self harm behavior within less than two years. And then obviously there were instances where this is a child was severe mental health needs. He would
have some violent outbursts at times. So eventually what happened to him was he in September of last year, was transferred to the adult prison system, essentially because at age sixteen, he had been you know, charged with the crime of assaulting an officer in in the youth prison. So he had hit, he hit, hit and spit at an officer, and that crime can make you eligible to be if you've had multiple crimes at this point, it can
make you eligible to be transferred up to the adult system. And so after age sixteen, so essentially he turned sixteen and d J J d UM you know, pushed him up to the adult prison system seemingly, you know, as as they've said, like they thought it's the best decision for him, given that he wasn't succeeding UM in the youth prison system. And within six months he was found UM in his cell at a psychiatric prison and at the adult psychiatric prison, and he he died by suicide UM six months after he
was transferred up at age sixteen. Still, so it's just a tragic story of just a youth entering the system at a very young age, struggling with mental health issues throughout it, and shortly after he was sent up to the adult prison system, reportedly he took his life. Let's pause from it. In here from our sponsors, Texans Care for Children, Texas moms need health coverage for a full year after childbirth. HB twelve by Representative Tony Rose delivers.
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Find out more at Conference for Women dot Org. Okay, Sually, we highlighted this story because it's an individually tragic story, but also, as you have reported, it is an example, a very tragic example of a practice that has become more common in the past year by t JJD, the practice of transferring juveniles under the age of seventeen two adult prisons. Tell us why is that happening? Yeah, so it depends. I mean, essentially,
as we've said, right, t JJD was in this crisis. They as the years have gone by, they have narrowed down their population to generally the most difficult population to deal with. Right, these are the most high needs youth they have either for behavioral issues or mental health or both. As I said earlier, So this is a generally, generally speaking, a difficult population
to work with. T JJD has said that in the last the increase in transfers, which for context, there were fifty one transfers last year of youth up to the adult prison system. And you know, again, out of less than six hundred youth and the year before, in twenty twenty one, there were twenty nine of those fifty one twelve of them were sixteen or seventeen, compared to five of them being that age in twenty one. So this
is a big jump. Um. Obviously, it's small numbers of any of these youths because the TJJD system is meant to handle a few youth but it's a big percentage, and it's a big jump, and it's a big change. And so basically what we saw was the youth the youth justice system was you know, at its just struggling to survive at this point. UM,
they were scrambling to recruit and to retain more officers. And you know, one of the one of the biggest complaints of officers who are leaving is the work conditions, the you know, the dangerous conditions that can come with this job. So in in this in this world, they're increasing transfers. T JJD has said because more more youth are being committed with with um after having after having committed violent offenses. So there's like a more the population itself,
they're arguing is more violent. But you also hear from some of the lawyers who represent these children at these transfer hearings, and they're saying there there are instances where you see like Joshua Keith Beasley, who yes he has was found to have hid an officer. But it's very like, it's very clear that this is a child with severe mental health issues and he's hurting himself a lot as well. And you also don't know how severe any of these incidents are.
For example, I know there's been situations where officers are grievously wounded, um. You know, they might be end up in the hospital after after an assault from the youth. But there's other instances that I've heard of, you know, a child resisting being restrained or pushed into their cell and in that resist during that like resistance UM, an officer you know might fall down
um or you know, sprain their wrist um. And these are the same types of cases that you're seeing that are that youth that are being pushed up to the adult system. What needs to happen? How do they how do
they do that? Is it getting permission from a judge? Yes, So there's only so many youth who are eligible, right, and so there are two ways that one enters the juvenile prisons, and one is you're either on a determinate sentence where you've committed a crime that they that you've been found generally speaking, it's one of there's a list of crimes that it can be generally serious violent offenses for example, murder, aggravated robbery, things like that,
and you've been found in court to say, okay, it's a juvenile court still, but you are sentenced to stay up to it can be up to forty years. So say there's a child committed of aggravated robbery. He gets a twenty year sentence, but he's only you know, fifteen, and then before he turns nineteen is when he ages out of the youth system. Then there's another hearing where that same court decides, okay, do you serve the rest of the sentence in prison and the adult prison or do you go now
onto parole. And that's largely based on how well you have been seemingly how
well you've done in the youth prison system. The other way is for youth that youth more youth go into the youth prison system having committed crimes that they're never supposed to enter the adults system, right, they're lower level felonies and or they've just gotten lesser sentences, so they're supposed to be there at the youth prison system for between at least nine months in two years, and then after that it's really just up to tjj officials to say, you know what,
Yes, you've completed all the treatment we have on this and you're you're doing well, so you can go now, and you're just you're done. But if you commit another crime within t JJD, you can become eligible for that other offense, and then you're now on You're now able to be TJD is now able to request this transfer, which again has to go before the
juvenile court judge who in almost every case approves the transfer. And essentially what you're talking about here, and you have in your story of advocates sort of making this point right where you have the agency, you know, making the argument that this child is too dangerous to be held in the youth facilities for whatever reason, committing you know, crimes danger to the staff or other children as well. They need to go up to a adult system where there might
you know, be fewer services available to help them. But you have the advocates kind of coming back and saying, well, part of the reason they have gotten to this point is because they've been in a facility and an agency where things are making it worse. You know, we talk about them this this individual story, you know, where a kid is, you know, starting to do self harm after he's been unable to see his family from visitations.
Um. You know, all different kind of people being isolated in their cells, having to use the rest bathroom, in water bottles and lunch trays because they can't you leave their cells because of staffing issues and everything like that.
And so like this kind of like you know, like vicious spiral right where you go to an agency that may make it worse than your mental health crises, which then the agency says, because you're showing these this behavior in part due to mental health crises, you need to go to a facility that might be more dangerous or might have fewer services for you. It just seems like it's a not a not a great situation in that realm, and it's
not. It's a horrible situation all around. Um. And you know, advocates have argued that this is this is you know t JJD saying this is how we're having to move the most disruptive youth so the other youth in our facilities can thrive. Advocates saying this is a way essentially to throw kids away um and to you know, to kick the can down the road, UM,
make it somebody else's problem. And it's it's you know, tragic to hear of these situations and where where this is happening, especially with kids like Joshua UM. And it's just you know, in t DCJ, like one
of the arguments being well, they have a youthful offender program. There are currently or as of last month, there were thirty four UM people under eighteen who were in the adult prison system and they're supposed to they have a program four you know, their inmates under eighteen, and it's meant to be you know, to have more services like education, UM and treatment, but jet you know, in the in the grand scheme of things, t TCJ is
also always struggling with staffing UM. And there you know, Joshua ended up in a psychiatric prison because he had he had hurt himself again once in the adult prison system. They sent him to a psychiatric unit. And what you saw, according to TDCJ, who is now moving to fire UM seven employees at that unit. They there was a level quote level of complacency um U
quote that was essentially unacceptable. They weren't checking on this on this child as much as they were supposed to be UM Whereas, like you know, in in t jj D on if if the youth is on suicide watch, essentially they're being checked on every you know, three to ten minutes at most UM and TDCJ said this youth was supposed to be checked on every fifteen minutes,
and then that wasn't happening. So you just get into these really like it's a different it's just a different environment and it's meant for different types of people. And you see t DCJ generally has a large number of suicides every year, so this is something that has kind of been baked into, like you
know, there is just some accepted level of suicides. But when it's a sixteen year old who was never originally meant to go into the adult system in the first place, I mean, it's just it's it's hard to it's just it's really it's really tragic. Yeah, I mean, and we just have
this situation we were in a legislative session right now. There's a lot of focus and attention on child you know, the welfare of children, the safety of children in this session, and it just like you keep seeing these reminders, whether it's the problems with the state's foster care agency, the Juvenile Justice agency that you know, one of the most dangerous places to be a kid
in Texas is under the custody or responsibility of the State of Texas. And of course, you know, you could argue, and you know it should be noted in that situation that there's somewhat of a you know, cause and effect question there, right of course, because you know, these agencies are designed for kids who are at risk and having problems, but they're just continues to be evidence that the state is not doing a good job of taking care
of the children it's supposed to be taking care of. But speaking of that legislative session, what's happening, you know, we have less than a month left in that session. Is there any momentum, any action being taken to
address some of these problems that you've highlighted. Well, so one of the things that we that I focus on in the stories, there is actually a move in the legislative such in the legislature by the Texas Senate to to pass legislation that would an all likelihood increase the number of transfers of youth from t
JJD to the adult prison system. One of which, so both of these bills have already passed the Senate and WAND is the major sunset bill, which is essentially, you know, every ten years at least every state agency goes under review and lawmakers decide how if it should continue to exist, and so you have to pass this bill or else t JJD would just cease to exist.
It's one of those must pass bills. So in that bill from the Senate side, there was what language that would essentially move more it would move more t JJD detainees to the adult system, essentially saying you become eligible for like that tg g D. It's hard for me to say that tjj must require like it takes away their discretion. It must request a transfer hearing for anyone in their facilities over sixteen who has been found to have assaulted a police
a peace officer, which is their prison officers. So that is a situation where t JJD. Now you know, again, if I push back when I'm being restrained. They have the discretion to say like, Okay, we're not going to like this is a this is a reaction to something that's going on with you, but it's not so aggressive that we need to transfer you to the adult prison system. And it would take away that discretion to make it go before the judge. Another another bill that has passed the Senate,
and some of its language would essentially make more youth eligible for transfer. So right now you have to commit one of certain crimes or having multiple felonies to be eligible for this transfer. And this would say, um, way more, way more. It would open it up to be way more crimes that would make you eligible, including a single assault against a prison officers. So
it would likely increase these transfers. And it's unclear it hasn't moved one of the one of the bills hasn't moved in the House, and the Sunset Bill is actually reworked in the House committee to take that language out. So it's really unclear how these things are going to pan out the rust to session. But on the Senate side, at least there is bipartisan agreement that there needs to be more, more pathways to tea from t JJD to t DCJ because
they're saying t JJD is so is just so overburdened. All right, Well, it's something that we will be closely watching over the next month. Thank you Jolie for joining us, and thank you for reporting on this. Thank you to our producer Justin, and thank you for our sponsors, the Texas Medical Association, Raise Your Hand, Texas Texans Care for Children, and Texas
Conference for Women. We'll talk to you all again later this week. You have to join us on May night in Midland and online for a conversation with experts about water infrastructure in Texas and what it will take to keep the state's water safely flowing. Rs VP at Texas Tribune dot org, slash events