Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for March thirty first, twenty twenty six. I am Matthew Watkins, editor in chief of the Texas Tribune, and joined as usual by Law and politics reporter Eleanor Klibanoff.
Hello, Eleanor, thank you for having me. Thank you for being here today.
We're going to talk about school vouchers, or education Savings accounts or Texas Education Freedom Accounts, the program with many names for which the deadline to apply for parents ends today. We think, unless a judge pushes that back again, we will get into that here in a minute. We've had demand significantly outstriped supply. We've had Muslim schools denied applications to participate in the program. As mentioned, we had a
judge extend the application period. We've had special families with kids with special education needs express challenge and getting access to their full money. And we've had a good old fashioned political fight between Ken Paxson, our Attorney General, Greg Abbott, our governor, and our governor's handpicked acting comptroller, Kelly Hancock.
It's been an eventful rollout to this new program, and joining us to talk about it is Jaden Edison our k Through twelve reporter, Hello, Jaden, thanks for having me, thank you for being here. So, you know, as we're recording this, it is eleven o'clock on March thirty first. The deadline is fast approaching. We're about thirteen hours away unless, as I mentioned, it get moved. It gets moved. But Jayden tell us a little bit about just what we
know about kind of the application process so far. Who's applied, how many folks that that.
Kind of thing.
Yeah, so, as you mentioned, application sets of close at eleven fifty nine pm March thirty first, you know, barring you know, another core order that would extend the deadline by another two weeks. And so as of yesterday the numbers were about I think the Controller reported it was roughly two hundred and fifty seven thousand or more at
least two hundred fifty seven thousand family applications submitted. You know, there have been roughly over twenty two hundred private schools that have basically opted into the program who meet the qualifications and are added to the controllers approved list of what I refer to them as voucher schools. To make it easier in my head, schools who are accepting vouchers. We also got some some demographic breakdown, you know, over the course of you know, the application period as well.
You know, one of the big things that people were obviously interested in, and you know, and that was based on a lot of the trends that we've seen in other states with these basically what have been called universal programs, which basically means virtually any school age child can can participate. And that's certainly how Texas has for the most part
structured their program. You know, there's a lot of interests in like how many of the applicants would be families who you know, maybe already had their children in private school or homeschool. And we know that what we know so far is that really, you know, the over one majority of families that I've applied kind of fit that bill as well, the bill of already being exactly excuse me,
already in private school. Now there is a caveat because for some reason which we could you know, get into, but you know, the comptroller is collecting that data in terms of prior school enrollment as of the twenty four to twenty five school year, so we don't actually know what the current enrollment is of the families, which that's a decision, but you know, I don't haven't got at the.
Very least that's a family that at some point had their child recently had their child in private school, which matters, right, because the argument for why we need this is parents that don't feel like their school's child or their child school is adequate their public school and they need to sort of put them in private school to get an adequate education. Yeah, so they're already in private school. Maybe they've already found a way.
To do that, right, right, and that was part of it, right, and you know, certainly to you know, you talk about this has been billed as a as a program that really you know, they they really talked about prioritizing two groups of students, right, students with disabilities and low income students. Right now, obviously you have families who maybe fit both those you know, criteria and whatnot. And so you know, we'll get finalized data whenever the application closes to be
able to see what the entire deal was. But certainly, you know, also you talk about kind of racial breakdown. The contops actually as recently started putting that out after some you know, records requests from interested parties you know, journalists and organizations alike, and we have seen that. You know, if you compare it obviously to public school in romement, I mean, you know, Texas is a you know majority you know, uh Hispanic student population in public schools, you
know majority, you know, low income about sixty percent. I think on free and reduced launching Texas public school as well. You know, we're seeing so far as the majority of voucher applicants are our majority white families. The income criteria is a little kind of confusing. The people like it depends. They defined it as one way, so I think you have to look at with a little bit of nuance.
But certainly, you know, you have seen some interest from from middle to high income families, but as well as as low income families students.
All right, I want to I want to break down the demographics a little bit more. But let's first just talk about like big picture raw numbers of people applying. So you said two hundred and fifty seven thousand students who have applied for.
This family families of students. Yeah, it's a family.
You could have multiple students.
Exactly because the way they build it is basically like it. Yeah, and we had actually had this conversation in the.
Newsroom, like you're still in your argument.
It was like a student can't technically apply, but the family of the student.
So that's kind of how I'm looking at gotcha. Gotcha.
So just to take a step back, right, the program was approved in the last legislative session a billion dollars set aside for that, we're talking about roughly the average you know, amount for students who do not have are are not either homeschooling or have special education reasons, which could increase the number is a little bit over ten
thousand dollars. If so, if you're going to break that down essentially, you know, people estimating, you know, somewhere in the like ninety thousand to one hundred thousand students will be eligible. So what we're talking about here is, you know, a situation where demand has far outstripped supply and you know, likely maybe around like probably less than forty percent of the parents, the families who apply will actually get access
to the vouchers. That that, you know, I think you know is a bit of a kind of eye of the beholder situation. Right, A lot of people who supported. The vouchers are really cele are really celebrating this is that, you know, this is something that families really need, you know. The other question is just what is this going to mean for this program going forward? Are we going to see you know, demand to increase this in the upcoming
legislative session. What are you hearing from folks about that topic so far?
So, I think certainly when we talk about legislative requests, you know, one thing, I mean, there are a few things right when you talk about the some of the things that have appeared in the bill so far, or that's just say unintended consequences that they've been kind of label certainly as it relates to like, you know, funding for students with disabilities and whether or not they can qualify for certain increases in future years, or whether for example,
a home school family can move from the two thousand dollars per year category to the ten thousand, five hundred
dollars per year amount category. There are some technical kind of fixes and clarity that the controller you know, has identified really that have been identified through reporting you know, that certainly you know, would be addressing and the interesting things that that is like to solve some of the issues that maybe the controller deems as the sticking point so far actually can be solved with more funding, right, and so it certainly, you know, we've seen another state
and you know, we're talking about this before. Is you know, i'd be surprised if they're you know, certainly, I would imagine there's going to be you know, the request for more appropriation, and they're going to point to some of the you know, the the early demand for the program as well as maybe some of these you know, more technical things that maybe weren't intended but have kind of played out and been some of the sticking points of the program so far.
One of the things we were talking about this just before, but I think it's interesting is like there will be now this whole tier of families that get turned down for this program who sort of feel like, well, this was something I thought I was going to get and now I'm not getting it, which sort of creates a whole new potential class of you know, people who are now activists for raise increasing this or who feel like, you know, the only answer is for the state to
increase this, who then become you know, pushing their elected officials to increase the amount of funding towards it. So I think it is sort of like the Overton windows shifts right from should we do school vouchers to how how much money are we putting into this?
Yeah, I think it's going to be very interesting because, you know, been a part of a couple panels in recent months where this topic has come up. Brought it up with the head of the Catholic Schools, which was a big advocate for this program. They were adamant, Yes, we believe there needs to be more money put into this, you know next legislative session.
I don't know.
I mean, y'all courage me if I'm wrong, Like, I haven't heard the leadership coming out and saying we're going to grow this or we need to grow this that much. You know, we saw that the Lieutenant Governor and the House Speaker put out their interim charges next year. You know, I mean it's complicated, right because those those are things to study. It doesn't every not everything on that list.
You know.
The Senate version, Dan Patrick's version, you know, he had an item called celebrating the successful rollout of school Choice. It did not ask for what needed to change. I mean it did say study and provide recommendations on how it can enhance and expand. But you know, it wasn't like we need to put you know, we need to fulfill demand or anything on that. Senator Donald Campbell, I had an opportunity, she's the new chair of the Senate
Education Committee, asked her a similar question. She didn't go there either. So I think it's going to be interesting. It's going to be a much more complicated budget season next year. I think most people expect that the massive surpluses that have been available to the legislature in the past years is not going to be available this time. Maybe there will be a surplus, but not in that like double digit you know, or not double double digit billions. I can't count how many easier as that is off
the top of my head. So there's going to be a lot more competing for money next year, and it'll be interesting to see. But you know, this year, Jaden, we are in that sort of you know, there is going to be a scarcity of these accounts available to people. Can you remind folks a little bit about the prioritization system and how that will be determined of who will get them and who will who will not right.
So they've outlined basically several tiers. So you know we're past we know now that demand you know, exceeds funding. And so now what will happen is is it'll basically be you know, broking down to these categories.
Right.
So obviously at the top of that list are students with disabilities who fit within a certain income threshold. On income threshold, they said, I, if you're thinking about a family of four, it's going to go all the way up to roughly one hundred and sixty thousand dollars that's per year.
That's five times the federal poverty level, right.
For, right for, and that's specifically students with disabilities who fit that category.
So and I'm going to pause you as you go down this list because I have the control as shark here about twelve percent of applicants fall into that category right now.
And then so what what how the system works is basically the Controller's office is going to go through so they all those families, assuming they meet all the eligibility eligibility criteria, excuse me, they would all be priority TIS, right assuming, and that's pending acceptance to a private school, right which has to be selected by July fifteenth, right, so by July, and so once you get that through that category, then you will move down to this the
second tier, which you have it in front of you, so correct me your own, but it's this one is I believe two hundred through five hundred correct percent of poverty. So that's what roughly was sixty seven thousand or so between that one hundred and sixty grand four family of four. So again this is mad so sorry people, and we're talking about thirty one percent of applicants.
There, so just considered like the low income tier.
That's low income you know at well sorry, there's adder below two hundred for sure, So that's the second tier, right, and then the third would be the one in between the two. So yeah, so that's where I got it mixed.
So yeah, first to students with disabilities up to that five times of poverty. Second is going to be that two hundred percent category, right, and that's the thirty one percent exactly right, So that's going to be considered Elinori's your point, the kind of low income to your and then you will transition to the families who are in between those two. So right, the two hundred and five hundred percent category, and that's about thirty percent.
So between those three categories, I'm doing the quick math here, you're talking about around seventy three percent of the applications right there. That means, you know, uh, some of the people in even that two hundred to five hundred percent category are probably going to be missing out. They're going to have to go into a lottery.
To see whether they get it. Yeah.
And then obviously then the last one, if you will, it's going to be the you know, we'll consider the you know, the wealthiest families, right that's going to be at the five hundred five times of poverty or above that, and that's capped to about twenty percent of the total one billion dollar allocation.
So the way it works is there go ahead, so we have five percent of those people who are not who are currently enrolled in public school, which actually I believe gets a priority over just the five hundred percent or more, which is twenty two percent of the applicants.
So essentially, what you're looking at is the if they sort of follow this priority system, the wealthiest families are the least likely to get access these vouchers.
So here's where the nuance gets regular There's been a ton of public conversation about this, and I think there is some clarity needed.
Right, is the key here?
It goes back to students getting accepted to their preferred private school. Right, so we know, for example that you know, many of these families, if you're a family for example, which that's what we know so far, it seems to be most families who applied have families who are already enrolled in private school. That's not necessarily an obstacle for you, right, you already know you're enrolled exactly.
Yeah.
So, but going back to what we're talking about, how the program was built, right in terms of you know, we want to you know, we're talking about the category of public school students, which is going to be a very small percentage based on what we seem so far and in other states of you know, students who switch from public to private. You know, those families ultimately, again by July fifteenth, have to find, you know, a school
to accommodate their needs. And when you get into talking about families of students with disabilities, that becomes even more of a challenge because you know, many schools maybe don't have the sort of accommodations that those particular families need depending on what the disability is, where it's physical disability, learning disability, et cetera.
And so there's a little nuance.
To that, but you're certainly right at face value, Like if you just look at the category, they're going to have to go through each category. So let's just assume that you know, everybody in category one gets accepted. That's however many students, that's going to be everybody in category two. At some point, you're going to run out of the funds, and you know, they're going to be families who then move to the wait list, and then that has its own kind of structured system as well.
And I think you could I mean, I've heard this argument right that some of these families who already have a child in private school maybe are already making like, you know, they feel like their child could not stay in public school, and they're having to make very significant sacrifices to keep, you know, to get their child in private school. This will help them not have to sort
of make those extreme sacrifices anymore. So it's not like being in private school necessarily means you're the richest person alive.
But correct, But they wanted to prioritize giving the people who have not had access to that get them the access to the program.
But to your point, I mean, the data is pretty noisy so far. It sounds like in terms of drawing really firm conclusions.
Yeah, I mean, and.
There's just so much that you know ultimately you know, to me, the key data points, the things I'll be looking out for is, you know, you get past the lottery, who are ultimately the beneficiaries you know of this program? Right the applicant pool is one thing, and that's telling us some things, giving us some indications, But certainly we're
far from you know, any you know, certainly you can. Again, the best thing I always look at is like what has happened in other states and they can give that gives you a sense because a lot of these programs are structured you know, very similarly. But nonetheless, you know that'll be that'll tell us you know more you know about again like how taxpayer you know, dollars are being spent, et cetera.
Once we get those you know, those data points. One other break down you mentioned race as well. Forty five percent of students who have applied are white, plus another twelve who are multi racial twenty three percent Hispanic, eleven percent Black, eight percent Asian Pacific Islander, and one percent American,
Indian and Alaskan Native. You know, I mean what jumps out to me is the most disproportionately unrepresented group being Hispanic, right, which is like right around that majority in terms of public school students, less than a quarter of the students who have applied for this program so far.
Yeah, and again it goes back to like you look at I mean, if you look at like, for example, Propublic of the Investigative News that we work with them, you know, they have actually put together like a private school demographic databases based on like federal surveys and things that that nature have been able to get. And again you look at the overall kind of private school demographics, right,
saying it kind of skews in the same direction. So if you're assuming that, you know, the overwhelming majority already of applicants are in private school, then the data points here that we've gotten for voucher applicants really isn't that surprising, Okay?
And then so let's talk a little bit about just the process of schools getting signed up this has been a key focus. Tell us what has happened with some Islamic schools in the state.
Yeah, so, I mean there's a lot to unpack, but I'll try to, you know, do the crash course version. So basically this dates back to two months ago when when Acting Controller Kelly Hancock, whose office oversees the voucher program right task with that you know, by the legislature. So basically, you know, he requested, you know, uh, an opinion from Attorney General, you know, Kim Paxton, who obviously
is the state's lawyer. And so when it comes to any kind of lawsuits things of that nature, the expectation is obviously at the Attorney General Paxston is going to defend the Controller, and so that's a little context for just you know, people who to make the connection. So he requests an opinion from Kim Paxton and and what that says is is basically, and I'm giving you the
crash course Jaden version of this. Right. It's like, hey, you know, I'm going through you know, you know, this process so far, and I'm wondering if it's possible, in your legal opinion for me to exclude certain studs. Sorry, exclude certain schools that apply to our program if they are you know, tied or associated with organizations whom we as a state have deemed quote unquote foreign terrorist organizations
or foreign adversaries. And what he's really getting at is is that there, you know, he pointed to specifically the Council on American Islamic Relations CARE, right, which has been in the middle of all the kind of political noise during you know, midterm election season in which Governor.
Abbot has essentially declared terrorists right.
And to be clear, you know, CARE has sued the governor over that label, right. You know, they've unequivocally called it, you know, defamatory, you know false. You know, they're not they don't have that designation right at the you know, if you look at the US State Department, for example, which is what always cite, they're not designated that. So
that's that context is important. But nonetheless, what Kelly Hancock asked was that basically, you know, there are schools, you know, who have associated or organized, you know, certain events in the past that have been tied to CARE and so and obviously you can presume, you know, CARE is the largest the nation's i think largest Muslim civil rights organization. So presumably he's talking about schools with an Islamic focus.
Can the state exclude them from the program. So Paxton gets back to him and says, Hey, the control, I mean, the legislature made you responsible for this program, and so certainly you you have that, you know, authority if if you find that there's any kind of violation of state law or you know, et cetera. And so in the months since then, what we've seen is basically that, you know, until recently, no Islamic schools that have applied to the program had act actually gotten in.
Right now.
There's an exception because there were actually some a handful of schools that maybe showed up on the approved list early on, but you know, once public reporting kind of you know, made that uh, you know, brought that to light, they were removed you know, from the list. And so, for all intents and purposes, until recent court activity, no
Islamic schools had been accepted into the program. Meanwhile, other faith based schools, Christian Jewish schools, et cetera, hadn't run into you know, the same issues, and so that has basically led into this current court side where we're in where you had a number of Muslim families in Islamic schools that sued the state over their exclusion, you know,
in citing you know, religious you know discrimination. Basically, the case that they've made to a federal judge is that, hey, the state has has brought forth allegations of terrorism, et cetera, and there's really been a blanket again, blanket exclusion of our schools in a way that has not impacted others. And what that's done, you know, and their eyes is that that's really made families Muslim families who were interested
in applying deter them from doing so. And it's also, in their eyes, skewed the lottery system because certainly, even if you were today to accept every Islamic school, the families that, you know, the families that would have went to those, they're at a disadvantage because they didn't have all this time to prepare and do all these different things. And so we've gotten to a point now where you know, a court, you know, federal judge found what's happened here.
I mean, I think the words he used were deeply troubling to see what's happened so far, and so therefore he ended up extending that voucher application deadline from March seventeen to March thirty first, and obviously the next court hearing is in late April, and so there it could happen to where it gets extended again, but we're kind of at this point now, we're waiting to see what happens.
Yeah.
One of the reasons we keep qualifying the you know, it looks like it'll close today is because they have asked to extend it again and we haven't heard an answer on that that exition exactly. So you visited Aman Academy in Houston, one of these schools that has been excluded or was excluded. Tell us a little bit about your visit, what you saw there, and what you heard from the people at that school.
Yeah.
So, I mean we got basically, you know, unfiltered access, and that was really the the idea, you know, to pull the curtain back on the you know, reporting process. You know, from my standpoint is, you know, I was, you know, we're seeing a lot of kind of reporting just about what's happening so far, but what I felt like was almost missing was like, like, Okay, there's there's a possibility assuming that one of these schools that let you in where you can go see some of these
things for yourself. What are the things that are being taught? You know, how are the teachers you know, you know, you know, what are the values and things that they promote? And so certainly, you know, a mon academy was was open you know to the idea of unfiltered access.
Really you know, to the school.
And so we went, you know, myself in a you know photographer Anny Mulligan in Houston, and what we saw actually.
Was you know, a school whose values were really I mean, it was interesting, right.
It's like hyper focused on like this idea of building contributing like American citizens as they see it, right, so you know, their whole mission. Even when you talk to the students and teachers and you know, administrators, like they were all aligned on this idea of like, hey, like we want to be a part of the American education system. And so everything that we've done as a school is
really crafted in that in that lens. Right, So we actually take the Star test, which is the state standardized test that public schools are required to take, even though they don't have to do that, right, we actually follow the same learning standards that public schools are you know, have to teach and hold students accountable to you know, when we invite guest speakers, you know, we actually and we seek out you know, Democrats, you know, Republicans, you know alike.
You know, the education director is a black.
Woman from Mississippi who's a Christian at a at an Islamic private school, and so there were just all these things. You know, you go into the class, you know, I mean, I mean, I've been to a number of you know, public schools in my career, and I would argue that what I saw really was aligned with what you would probably expect in any typical you know classroom, right, you know, fractions, ratios, you know, igneous rocks and science class like, you know,
that was what it was. And so certainly, you know, you know, they took this standpoint of we actually don't want to sue the state right like others, and you know, and it goes back to what they were saying, it's like, if we're serious about being you know, positive contributing American citizens, Like from their standpoint, they believe that there has to be belief in the justice system and the process and like and you know, amending and building relationships, and so
they felt like suing would actually run contrary to like what their values were. And so since that story published, the control was actually they're actually now a part on the approved list of private schools in the program. But certainly an interesting it was. It was a great visit. I mean just in terms, like I said, unfiltered access. There was nothing that was really like you can't go here, you can't ask this. It was like there was a foundation.
But nonetheless, you know, we we moved and you walk through and talk to anybody, you know, we we wanted to and that to kind of have story came out to be an owner.
I mean, it can't be ignored that this conversation has come during a time where, you know, the Republican primary has featured a lot of attacks against the Muslim community. I mean we had just over the weekend both French one who's in a runoff for the Railroad Commission, a position that you would not expect to have much to say about Islam, you know, essentially standing up on stage
and saying like we need to normalize Islamophobia. We've had you know, we already mentioned the abbot order related to care I think, you know, there have been questions, a lot of a lot of things and concerns and legal actions taken against a community in North Texas, Amy the Epic Community, aiming to you know, create sort of a.
Neighborhood around and.
You know, in the Islamic community, this is something that has become very political, and I think where a lot of people practicing Muslims are feelings sort of under attack, their their values questioned by their government.
Yeah, I think very much. So it's just become such a political football during this you know, very content particularly during this very contentious primary season and run off where I think we've got a couple of races where candidates are sort of trying to like be more proved they're can prove that they're more conservative and in many cases sort of more inflammatory than their opponent.
And it's been.
A series of you know, legal actions, like you said, from the governor, from Attorney General Ken Paxton, in fact, like Ken Paxton being criticized for not doing enough to go after some of these groups, and then we're seeing you know, him sort of escalate in his legal actions. And I think this the question about the Islamic schools
and the voucher program. I think actually provided like a very tangible example of how this islamophobia in like the rhetoric, actually it can translate pretty quickly into having very real impacts. Certainly the epic city the Meadows as it's you know, being called. Now it's this development in North Texas. There's a couple of these developments that are have been discussed or planned or proposed that are essentially just sort of planned communities which North Texas is full of, built around
mosques or sort of catering specifically to Muslims. They say all their materials make clear, you know, anyone can live there. This is not a closed community or anything like that.
And just I mean a really.
Extraordinarily high number of legal challenges ongoing on all of these fronts in Texas. And yeah, you just kind of get the sense like this is being used as a political football.
And this has particularly kind of shown up in now a fight between Kin Pax and Greg Abbott.
Tell us a little bit more about that.
Yeah, So I we were talking this before. Matthew and I were both on a panel at the New Bruntfles in New Brunfals at the Texas Legislative Conference over the weekend, and I jokingly said, like, when I write about this stuff, I'm not allowed to use in my headlines the girls are fighting, and Hanna Norton with Community Impact tweeted that, so you know, we got it out there everywhere, so
I got to get out ahead of that story. But essentially, right like, you have Kelly Hancock, who is the acting Clerk who's serving as the acting comptroller right now, appointed by Greg Abbott. He and Ken Paxton have beef that goes way back because Kelly Hancock was one of only two Republican Senators to vote to impeach Ken Paxton. But this current dust up, Kelly Hancock lost in the primary to Don haffeyin so he will not be the comptroller
come January. And essentially Hancock accusing Paxton of not sufficiently defending this lawsuit about whether or not the Islamic schools can be in the voucher program Ken Paxton, and I mean using like and essentially accusing Paxton of being asleep at the wheel in stopping the spread of Islam in Texas, which you know we should say Ken Paxton has actually done a lot on that front and also has you know, Texas has had a ban on sharia law for close to a decade now, and we you know, there's a
lot of myth around what is what they sort of fear is happening here in Texas. But ken Paxton responds very aggressively, calls Kelly Hancock a loser, asks Abbott to kick Hancock out of the role and put hough fines in. Abbot has not responded to anyone's request for comments about whether or not he intends to do so. But just
a really really messy fight. Oh and then sort of culminating in ken Paxton saying that he would no longer be representing the Comptroller's office in litigation about this issue and accuses Hancock of sort of sharing privileged information that imperils the case publicly. Just a huge giant mess that has really nothing to do with the lawsuit at hand.
And meanwhile, you know, there are these schools and these parents who are wondering whether they'll have access to this program that is available to pretty much, you know, every other religious group, demographic group in the state. Jaden, is there any evidence that's been brought forward against any of these schools or organizations to suggest that they actually have any ties to terrorism or anything else that should preclude them from participating in this program.
So you know, it's interesting you all, you know, you bring up the kind of beef between you know, Paxon and Hancock, because you know, part of what's at the heart of that is like there's actually been no such evidence has been presented to the court and actually in court filings, right when the Attorney General's lawyers have talked to the judge, when the judges asked these questions of like, well, why are we seeing this, you know, these schools being
blocked and not others, they pointed to actually concerns about accreditation, right, and it particularly goes back to the accreditation company for most of these Islamic schools, which is a company called Cognia. And what they're saying is that basically, you know, there were some accredited accreditation issues where maybe there were some schools that were listed as accredited, but they didn't go through the proper protocol and so Cognia had to correct
those things. And so what they're saying is that these school these particular schools that have this accreditation require kind of independent review. Now, the judge didn't really buy that because there are hundreds of cognitive schools that have been accepted into the program and the ones that hadn't up until more recently were you know, there were no Islamic schools, right, and so that's what have been argued in court. Now,
you brought up Kelly Hancock's letter. You know, in that particular letter, he actually makes some really serious allegations against you know, particularly a you know, a private school in Houston where he alleges you know that you know, they're superintendent.
For lack of a better term, you know, you know it's tied some way tied to you know, Muslim brotherhood and you know that, and the way he described it, you know, has you know, intend on you know, you know, infiltrating kind of you know the American you know system through education and all these other lenses, et cetera, all things that for you know, just to sum it up, really had no, uh, there was nothing to substantiate those things other than Kelly Hancock saying them right, And what
Paxson actually pointed out in his response was that you basically put out things that that really had not been corroborated, that had not been you know, discussed between you know, me as your attorney, and you to where now effective legal representation is virtually impossible. That's basically what Paxson said
in so many words. And so yet he has submitted a request to the court to he actually that he followed through on that did submit a request to the court to withdraw as counsel and waiting to see if that will actually be granted.
I mean, this is sort of what we're hearing and number of fronts. I think the schools are part of this. That's like the fear is that the Muslim population Texas is growing very quickly and that this is part of a broader plot by what you know, leaders of the Muslim faith to take over Texas, to take over the United States, to take over and change the American way of life. And this was all, you know, a plot
to create these sort of like communities, these cells within Texas. Jaden, just to underline this, you went to this school, like it feels like what you saw there is like a pretty radical disconnect from the rhetoric we're hearing about these schools.
You know it was and you know it.
You know it's interesting, right because first and foremost, right, I want to kind of take a step back, because I think you have to think about this. You know, one of the concerns with these type programs, right if you think about really the really early iterations. I mean, I'm talking about going back to the nineteen fifty seven legislative session, right when you know, Texas propose the tuition grant plan to circumvent the Brownie Board of Education decision.
Even that particular bill proposal that was put forth. You know, basically that's for Allington's purposes about your kind of type you know system plan that would have excluded you know, religious schools.
Right.
So over time, you know, one of the concerns would be that we now have taxpayer funded religious religious education. And many of these states, including Texas, have made the decision now to say, like we're going to allow that.
Right.
So, assuming that's the case now, the expectation among religiously focused institutions in schools is that everybody's going to have
a fair opportunity to do this, right. And you know what I heard at the school, you know, and talking to the president, I'm thinking, you know, a conversation we had is you know, there's a quoting the story and you know, don't I don't remember a verbatim, but basically the point he was getting across is that in every religion and every faith community, in every family, you have extremists, you know, you have you know, people who don't necessarily fit you know, the values of the masses.
Right, Why is it.
Specifically that Muslim families or Islamic schools are the ones
being singled out? And he talked about going back to the you know, American values being kind of a you know, one of the at the nucleus of what they you know, want to build at the school and in terms of helping children develop into those things, right, he talked about fairness and justice are also American values, and this is a moment where, in his eyes, you know, the controller and the state weren't living up to that, and so it's just you know, and I think that's why it
was important to do the story right, because I think, you know, from from our standpoint, like, you know, these are things that when we look down I say this all the time, like twenty thirty forty years from now, like, how are people going to look at this moment in
the same ways? Like me as a reporter, I look back on nineteen fifty seven and look at you know, how the Texas legislature proposed such a plan to circumvent integration, Like, is this one of those moments where you look down decades from now where we're going to be looking at this through the same lens, right, And I think going to the school and seeing it for yourself was kind of an important piece of that historical record.
Well, we will watch and see how this case plays out, and we will watch and see how this broader process with the with the vouchers plays out. There is a lot to observe and a lot still to learn about how this program is gonna work.
Jayden, thank you for taking some time to talk with us about it. Thank you to our producers, Rob and Chris. We will talk to y'all next week.