Hey Texas Tech fans, if you're into the intersection of politics, pop culture, and the law, this show is for you. It's Jeff Berg is litigious. You've got to check out Jeff's conversation. with one of these guys who's helping investigate and track down the money that's been stolen by these crypto scammers. You can check it out on his webpage. It's bergpc.com.
And just go to Crypto Recovery, bergpc.com, and then click Crypto Recovery. And you can also check out his show. All of the episodes are there, bergpc.com slash podcast. It's bergpc.com slash podcast. Now on with the show. A speaker showdown or a setup? Welcome to The Texas Take, the number one political podcast in the great state. I'm Scott Braddock and he's Jeremy Wallace. His work, of course, is at HoustonChronicle.com and you can always find the inside story on Texas politics.
Jeremy, I didn't get any complaints last week. Why would I? It was a perfect show. But I didn't get any complaints about the fact that we didn't talk about the speakers race because I had told folks, look, it was changing minute to minute and we'll get to it and we'll talk about it in depth on a future show. This is that show. Are you ready?
Yes, I have buckled in. I'm ready to go. Okay. We're going to talk about it quite a bit here because while I received no complaints, because as I said, the show was perfect, I did get lots of questions. People wondering what in the hell is going on here. And, of course, amid all of the spin about this, Jeremy, they're looking to us as a beacon of light and truth. That's why we're here, dear listeners. What's happening. Yes.
In times of confusion and tumult, you turn to this show. So people are very excited that the show is coming to them here on Thursday. You don't even have to wait until Friday like you normally would. So let's get right into it. How is it possible? This is one of the first questions I got. How is it possible that there are two people who are both declaring a version of victory in the race to be the Speaker of the Texas House? All right, let me walk you through it.
The first person to declare victory is a guy named David Cook, who we have told you about. He's a representative from North Texas. Throughout his political career, Jeremy, he's been, I would say, more of a moderate. And the whole race for speaker, it's turned that narrative on its head because even nationally, he's being referred to as the conservative champion, the conservative choice for speaker. And one of the big reasons that those folks are saying that in the national media.
the right-wing media, and we'll get to them, believe me. One reason they're saying that is because Cook did win the Republican caucus vote for the endorsement of the caucus to be the speaker. All right. So he was joined by a lot of his colleagues. after that meeting on saturday where a certain number of republicans voted to make this guy, David Cook, their choice to lead the Texas House next year. A cook said he plans to keep campaigning.
after winning the caucus vote on saturday it'll be a continuation what i've already been doing for the last several months i've been working with these individuals to earn their support and i'll be doing the same thing over the next five weeks right we have about a month until the legislative session starts So let me back up to what happened Thursday night. And this was the evening after we did our last show, Jeremy. The vote we just told you about was on Saturday.
A couple of nights before that, there was this flurry of activity. There was all this gossip, and I'm going to spill all the tea for you here. There was all this gossip. And members of the House texting each other and talking to each other, late nights conference calls and meetings in condo complexes here in Austin where the candidate who was emerging as an alternative to Cook.
was this guy, Dustin Burroughs, who's the calendars chairman, who, if you've been listening to this show, we've been telling you for months that if Speaker Phelan was not going to be in the mix, which he dropped out on Friday, if Phelan wasn't going to be an option...
then you would want to look to some of his top lieutenants, right, as the people who might emerge as an alternative. And who did we say those people would be? Right here on this program. We said it would be someone like Dustin Burroughs, who's the calendars chairman, Greg Bonnen. who is the appropriations chairman, some of those folks who are in the leadership circle right now under Speaker Phelan. There was just all this talk.
on Thursday night about this is the guy, how he has the momentum. And there were some Democrats who were really pushing for Burroughs as speaker on Thursday night. Terry Canales, who is the transportation chairman in the House, he's a Republican from – excuse me, he's a Democrat from the Rio Grande Valley. And he was saying that if Burroughs has the momentum, then Democrats need to be talking to him and they need to strike while the iron is hot.
There were other Democrats, the senior Democrat in the House, the dean, Ms. T, as she's known, Sinfronia Thompson from Houston, who said, hell no. Why would we be going with this guy right now? He's been a right-wing Republican who's not open to our ideas, and I'll talk a little bit more about that in just a bit. But they had this hot debate within the Democratic caucus.
about who they ought to support when, look, it's going to be a Republican who's going to be the speaker, right? This is a Republican body. It's majority Republican. And the real fight's happening among the Republicans. But this won't shock anybody. Democrats were kind of disorganized. about all this they were trying to figure out where they were going to land on this and in the meantime
Right after you just heard Cook say that he's got the Republican caucus vote, this guy Burroughs comes out and he declared victory of his own. And he didn't just say that, hey, he won in his caucus. He said he has the votes from members of both parties. to be the speaker when the house convenes in january i love the house it has given me many many opportunities and chances to do great things and this house has done great great things together
It's given me first chances and second chances and I owe it. And these members, I cannot thank enough for putting their trust and faith and support in me to make sure. That next session, we deliver the results to all Texans. How is it possible that this guy who was not, at least on paper, wasn't a candidate for a speaker a week before that, how is he now the guy who has the votes to be? The speaker will.
It appears that he doesn't really have the votes to be speaker. There was a lot of chaos over the last few days about this, Jeremy. There was a lot of chaos surrounding it. But I think it's difficult to explain exactly everything that was going on, but it's not that hard to understand it. Here's the bottom line.
Neither Cook nor Burroughs actually has the votes to be speaker as of today, right? No matter what Burroughs is saying to people privately and what he said publicly in his press conferences, neither of these guys has 76 votes. And that's the number that it takes is 76. After that press conference, Burroughs did release a list that had 76 names on it. And guess what? I think within 10 to 15 minutes after the list went out in a press release, I got a call.
from Don McLaughlin, who is the former mayor of Uvalde, who is now going to be a Texas House member. He was on Burroughs list and he called me and said, Mr. Braddock, I just want you to know. that I told that man, Dustin Burroughs, not 45 minutes ago, I don't want to be on his list. And he just called me and started saying this. I said, is that on the record? He said, yes, sir. So I...
Reported that. And then in the half hour to hour to couple hours after this list had come out, it was my understanding that five, six, maybe as many as seven or eight Republicans were going to come off the list. That would put Burroughs. Far short of what he needs to be the speaker coming up in January. Now, Burroughs is setting aside this caucus vote. And what did I tell you?
Previously here on the show and at QuorumReport.com, that the caucus vote would be a distraction for what was really going to happen, which is someone, whether that's Burroughs or somebody else, it's the distraction for what's really happening, which is… The members talking to each other at Republicans and Democrats all talking to each other, Jeremy, about who the speaker ought to be. And Burroughs was having those one on one conversations.
And the reason that I was calling it a distraction is because when that caucus process was originally set up, it was really put in place. by Burroughs himself when he was the caucus chairman. and a former speaker by the name of Dennis Bonin. This goes back to 2017 and 2019, right before Bonin became the speaker ahead of the 19 session. The caucus process had been set up.
But Bonin didn't really honor that. He did the same thing that Burroughs did. And it's my understanding that Bonin is in the background. on this, that he's also helping Burroughs run his campaign, that he's putting together the same kind of a playbook for Burroughs to be the speaker.
people who are new to the process who were asking me on Saturday, they said, Scott, how did you know exactly what words that Burroughs would use in his press conference when he came out and said, the race for speaker is over? And I'm going to release a list at a later time. How did I know that that's exactly what he would say? Well, that's what Bonin said. That's also what Dade Phelan said when he became the speaker. That's exactly how they've run this.
Some have said that it's hypocritical for Burroughs to say that the caucus vote doesn't really matter or to act like it doesn't really matter. And I should say that Burroughs and his contingent, that his Republican supporters, walked out of the caucus meeting.
As the votes were happening there, when it appeared that neither Cook nor Burroughs was going to get the endorsement. Well, when Burroughs was the caucus chairman, he said that this caucus endorsement was really important. I want to play for you. What he said at the time when the rules were being put in place to have this caucus vote. And again, he's completely dismissing that.
as he presses forward. But this was Burroughs at the time saying that if you want to avoid the kind of chaos that we have right now, then all Republicans should follow what happens in that caucus vote. I don't want to be in a situation a year from now.
where a member of the Republican caucus comes in and says, guys, guess what? I've got 55 Democrats who have made a deal with me to put me in the chair. And by the way, you're going to have to vote to repeal sanctuary cities. You're going to have to be against life. You're going to have to do these things if you want to be on the team.
You know, I've got the other 20 Republicans that are going to vote with me. And I'm going to say, hey, the Hydes and Carcass Committee I just formed, it's going to be one member bigger and have to deal with that. I think we should take control of it as a caucus. I think it'll be a unifying thing. I think it's a good thing. Jeremy, it shouldn't shock anybody that he said that then, and now he's doing something different, right?
Yeah. How dare he sound like John Kerry, right? You know, remember John Kerry's famous line? I voted for it before I voted against it. He said that during a debate and just like made him sound like absolutely. Yeah. Don't use my own words against me in the past. Like, today's today, not yesterday. And it's worth pointing out that, like, you know, look, what both of these men are doing is kind of an age-old tactic in politics. Like, you declare victory even when you don't have the victory, right?
You know, another Bush reference here, but like it's, you know, declaring victory of the war, you know, being on the battleship. You know, we've won. You know, it's like when we have another five, six years coming ahead of us. Right. You know, it's like you just declare victory and hope it goes your way.
Remember, you know, Dan Patrick, you know, Lieutenant Governor declaring victory in the bathroom bill, even though it had failed. Right. You know, like we won. It's like y'all all heard all of this stuff on the show in the past. But like, but yeah, I'm completely. I understand Burrow's perspective here. He has to change his viewpoint on that, obviously, if he's going to get Democratic support to become the next Speaker of the House. Yeah, listen. These guys are...
Some people are lying. Some people are telling untruths. And over the last few days, I've seen so much anger and confusion. About all of this from the members of the House themselves and from other people who wonder what's really going on here. And I would just say this because I've watched enough of these speakers races play out now. Being angry.
at someone for lying during a speaker's race is like being pissed at somebody for bluffing during a game of poker. It's how you play. Both of the – Burroughs is trying to bluff everybody into thinking that he's the speaker. On a fundraising invitation for a fundraiser that's happening tonight in Houston, on the invitation, it said, come spend an evening with, quote, speaker-elect Dustin Burroughs.
That's what the invitation said as of Sunday. And then at some point, as there was more pushback to whether he really had the votes, Jeremy, the invitation was revised. And now it says an evening with. chairman, Dustin Burroughs, tonight in Houston at the hotel that's owned by Tillman Fertitta there, who we'll mention a little bit later as well. But that beeping sound you hear, the beep, beep, beep, that's his campaign backing up a little bit.
Because he had been claiming victory, that he's the speaker-elect, and now he's – no, no, no. I'm just the chairman, and I'm running for speaker, and he's trying to assure all the people who are supporting him that – privately he's saying this, Jeremy, that he has as many as 80 votes.
But it's my understanding that Burroughs is not going to release any more lists because he told some Democrats on a conference call the other night that putting out lists, that just causes headaches for people, and he didn't want to put anybody through that again.
Well, and this is very similar to what we talked about last week on the show about the John Cornyn race when he was running for Senate majority leader. Like the one thing like, you know, even in that case, like you could kind of get a sense that you might think you have a certain number of votes.
But that number is always fluctuating. Nobody signed a contract here that says, you know, for till the bitter end, I'm going to be your guy. Right. That's right. It's like, you know, the kind of the joke that.
cornyn had had uh that like you know uh he said this before the vote he goes i don't want to be that guy who has to write 27 thank you notes for 24 votes you know a reference to you know three people said they were going to support him that didn't show up right you know but you don't know you know how it kind of went down in this case because it's a secret ballot you know in that instance but you know this is you know obviously different in that you know we will eventually know
how the vote goes. We'll have that on there. We just don't have necessarily a good rundown on who exactly is supporting who right now. And a very important point, you've made this point a lot over the years too, but the thing is... Speaker races are just notorious for having surprises. Just because you're hearing Burroughs and Cook, don't be surprised if some other person you've never heard of.
becomes that speaker we've seen that happen time and time again you know in races for the house we've talked about joe strauss you know you know there was a guy just came off the back bench to become the speaker of the house and just in a sophomore year It's like who saw that coming? It leads me to another one of the questions that I got about this over the last five, six, seven days or whatever. People have been asking, will the Republicans who are on Burroughs list, will they stay there?
And we have seen even in the last 24 and 48 hours, more Republicans come off the list. Representative Mano de Ayala from Houston, he dropped off the list a couple of nights ago. That would take Burroughs again down to he might be at 65. or 66 members now who are supporting him, again, well below how many members he would need to be the Speaker of the House. And it looks like the only way for Burroughs to build his list back up to 76.
is to have a lot more Democrats. Now, why do I say that? Because over the next month, there is going to be a pressure campaign like you've never seen in Texas politics. It could be... It could go several different ways, and I don't make predictions, but I'll give you an idea of how I think this could go. It could be one of the most spectacular flameouts we've ever seen in our politics in this state where someone comes out and declares victory in a speaker's race.
only to lose almost all of their Republican votes. You've had Donald Trump Jr. weigh in and say a version of this, that the Democrats are trying to steal the speakership in the Texas House. One of the morning hosts on Fox News Channel. Also weighed in.
on x on twitter whatever you want to call it and said the same thing said that there was some shady dealings going on down in texas that this guy dustin burrows this quote unquote moderate is teaming up with the democrats to try to steal the speakership in the texas house let me give you you an example of how this is being covered on Right Wing Media. You know, our old friend, Chris Salceda.
on Newsmax. He was giving his spin a couple nights ago. In my home state of Texas. First of all, nobody from Texas would say Texas like that. The guy is from San Diego, just to be clear. everybody. So what's his take on Burroughs versus Cook? 29 fake Republicans will join 47 Democrats in supporting a fake Republican by the name of Dustin Burroughs. He's every bit as bad as Dave Phelan was, perhaps even worse. And get this, the Republican speaker will have been overwhelmingly elected by...
Democrats, in essence, making him the Democrats speaker, thwarting the will of the Texas majority. Why does Chris Salcedo's top lip disappear when he's talking, especially when he's trying to... sound really angry. I don't really understand that, Jeremy. I'm just pointing it out. This is the narrative that's being pushed on right-wing media, that David Cook is a true conservative who Republicans can trust.
And that Dustin Burroughs is somehow a – not just moderate. They say he's a liberal Republican, a fake Republican who is teaming up with Democrats. And this is all. Well, let me say one thing first before you do. Let me just say one thing. That's bullshit. That is completely made up. Both of these guys are conservatives. Yes, Dave. In fact, if you look at their voting records.
David Cook is probably more moderate than Dustin Burroughs. Dustin Burroughs has supported – not just in the legislature – has supported anti-abortion measures in his home county. In Lubbock County, you remember when they were turning – they were going to declare that Lubbock was a sanctuary for the unborn? Dustin Burroughs was behind that. The whole war on local governments that we're going to talk about in just a bit, Dustin Burroughs is the point man on that for –
Republicans in the Texas legislature. So he's not a liberal at all. And I have been privy to the conversations that he has had with many of the Democrats in the Texas House. And I can't tell that he's promising them a whole lot at all as far as whether they would even continue to have chairmanships, that any policies would either be adopted or avoided or anything like that.
The choice for Democrats, it seems that it has been presented to them as David Cook would be the devil and he would be the worst. And Dustin Burroughs just – Maybe won't punish us as badly, but I could see several different scenarios playing out for those Democrats who were on the list supporting Burroughs. One would be they get dragged by activists on the left for the next month for supporting a right-wing Republican.
And then if he ends up not speaker, what was the point of all that? Or two, maybe he does win and they just get some crumbs. They barely get anything, but they do get some of their local bills passed and things like that, which are still important. Or here's another, actually, a third thing.
is that Burroughs might win the speakership with Democratic support and maybe with a majority of Democrats in his coalition. And then he just turns on them and does everything that the right wing wants. And because of that, he could be speaker for the next 10 years. Go ahead. Yeah, well, exactly. And look, it's not like the people of Lubbock have elected many liberal people to anything, right? It's completely misunderstanding our friends in the South Plains if you think they're electing.
any sort of liberal to The Texas legislature. Not happening. I just don't see that happening. But secondly, it's really kind of worth kind of paying attention to these guys' backgrounds. I think it's going to be very important about where David Cook is from. Remember, for those who may have... forgotten. He is the former Mansfield mayor.
So he is a city government guy. He was the mayor from 2008 to 2021. He's been there for a while. He was the mayor. So he has a different kind of city government kind of perspective that's going to be kind of interesting. forward in this discussion you know versus
And Burroughs, who we know hasn't always been a friend to city governments. It's hard to find somebody who's fought harder against cities and counties than Dustin Burroughs. Right. And that takes me right into the next point here, which is this. Who even is Dustin Burroughs? We had previously talked about Cook quite a bit, but let me give you some of the background of Burroughs since he has now...
emerged as a serious candidate for speaker. Let me put it that way. There's two serious candidates for speaker, and we might see another candidate for speaker. With Burroughs, there have been several major controversies he was involved in. And the first that I'll talk to you about is what you were just getting into, Jeremy, which is this war on local governments. The idea that local governments like the city of Houston, Harris County.
the city of Mansfield, which you mentioned, any of our local governments around the state, the idea that they should not be able to regulate almost anything. And last year, you had boroughs. The most sweeping what they call a preemption legislation, sweeping preemption legislation that basically was trying to cancel out all sorts of employment regulations that some cities have put in place, including things like.
mandatory water breaks for construction workers when they are toiling in the 110 degree Texas heat. And by the way, Ms. T, that senior Democrat, this was the policy she pointed to when she said that she was a hard no on boroughs. She didn't agree with that boy on very much, especially that. Here was Burroughs last year defending.
That bill on the floor as Texas House Representative Ana Maria Ramos, who's a liberal Democrat from Dallas County, she was asking him about it. And she said, look, isn't this all part of a national war? on local governments, that there are some conservative groups and entities that are trying to wage war on cities all over.
the united states because you do have some states that are run by republicans but their big metro areas are run by democrats in fact it's beyond statewide right it the reality is that The attempt to do this is a nationwide movement, correct? I have no idea. Okay. Are you familiar with the right-wing ALEC group, the American Legislative Exchange Council? I know what the name is. Are you familiar that this...
American Legislative Exchange Council promotes legislation that advances corporate interests and conservative positions nationwide. Awesome. Maybe they'll take my bill and have it a model for the entire country. I'm sorry? I hope they take my bill and make it a model for the entire country. In fact, did you not take their bill and try to make it of the model in the state? Because if... Oh, no, this is not their bill. I want to be very clear, Representative.
This is not their bill. This is one I worked on with lawyers in Texas and myself and others. And my guess is they're going to take my bill and make it nationwide because it's so. good and important this is not an insignificant fight right i mean when governor abbott was first sworn in as governor back in 2015 one of the first speeches he gave was at the texas public policy foundation a conservative think tank with a tax
free building in downtown Austin. I'll just repeat that. He, in that speech, said that local governments are contributing to what he called the, I think this is what he said, Jeremy, something like this, the Californization. Texas, that local governments, by doing things like having tree pruning ordinances, are making this state more like... California. And you had Burroughs really pick up the mantle on that and push this as his
His signature policy issue. So if he wants to – why this is important in the speaker's race, if he wants to expand the number of Democrats who are going to support him, there are going to be serious questions about this. I would love to be – A fly on the wall when some of the county judges and county commissioners, mayors and city council people are talking to their Democratic state representatives over the last few days and maybe in the weeks to come.
Any of those Democrats who were on the list for boroughs, they're probably going to get serious questions about this. Think about in Dallas County. What do you think County Judge Clay Jenkins thinks about – Some of the Democrats from Dallas County being on the list for boroughs after he pushed this crackdown on local governments for the past few sessions. If people wonder if he's a man of his word, well, at least on this, he is. He has said.
And agreed with former Speaker Dennis Bonin that a bunch of the county judges are dumbasses for the way they run their local governments and that he hoped – and you're going to hear the audio of this. Burroughs hoped that local governments would have one bad session after another. And so look, that's not the only calculation.
that will factor into the thinking of some of these members who might continue to pledge their support to boroughs. But I think it's an issue that's definitely going to come up. Yeah, absolutely. This is a big issue, you know, for local governments, you know, you know, think about I can't wait to kind of get, you know, the temperature of like mayors of Houston and San Antonio, like you said, when they find out Democrats in the air.
area, you know, they're Democrats as well are, you know, supporting Burroughs, you know, the guy who was coming after them. And I just get it. Like, you know, one thing, you know, Burroughs and making it sound like he kind of invented. this wheel by the way it's like he did not invent this wheel i was covering randy fine in brevard county florida doing the same exact bill uh 10 years ago it's like it's clear where this bill came from it came from
I can name names. I remember it so clear as day when it happened. So this is not his original idea. This is clearly something that went through ALEC because Randy Fine was a member of ALEC and presented at a conference of ALEC. Alec, in Austin, Texas, just a couple years ago before this bill came through. He was one of the presenters of this issue. It's like, in Austin, come on. Clearly, Alec had some input into this legislation.
Now, Burroughs would probably say that as speaker, it's just a different role. and that you're not pushing certain policies, you're not pushing for certain things, and that you wouldn't be presiding over the House and putting your thumb on the scale for certain things. But as we know... That's not really the way it works. If leadership wants something to pass, it passes. And Burroughs has been a big supporter of.
school vouchers, which is, you know, the big pet project of Governor Abbott. Governor Abbott was sort of pressed about where he is on the speaker's race. on social media over the past couple of days. I had reported out first that there were some text messages going out to Republican voters in Abilene, Texas, and those text messages going to
Republicans there said that Burroughs would be a champion for universal school choice. And the text messages that voters were getting, Jeremy, featured a picture of Burroughs with Greg Abbott. And this was sent out by a third party group that is not run by Abbott. But the son of Abbott's consultant, his consultant, Dave Carney, his son, Mitch Carney.
is involved with the group that was sending those text messages. So I have to think that on some level, Abbott and his political operation would have known that this was going to be happening. I don't know that for sure, but... I don't think that Mitch Carney, who's the son of Dave Carney, who's Abbott's consultant, I don't think he does a lot of these things without running something about Greg Abbott by his dad, who's his biggest client. He probably wouldn't do that.
Abbott had said that he wanted to be clear that he didn't necessarily have a candidate in mind that would be his preferred person for speaker, although Abbott did expand on that in a tweet. yesterday and say that he would hope that whoever the speaker is would adhere to the caucus rules. Now, a lot of people read that to mean that David Cook is Abbott's candidate.
But I saw some conservative radio talk show hosts and others point out that there's a reason Abbott did not actually name David Cook when he was explaining what he thinks about this, because there is still a chance that a Republican could still just emerge. and either get the caucus endorsement later if they met again, or...
It could just mean that Abbott would like to see whoever is elected speaker be elected with a majority of Republicans in their coalition. Right. That's what that might mean. So some folks have asked me what the other big controversy was that Burroughs was involved in. And I will get into it here. You remember, Jeremy, that Speaker Dennis Bonin was forced into retirement after he had a meeting with someone who represents one of the far right groups in the state.
And I'll try to explain this in a way that here in Austin, people know about it. At least some people do. A lot of some people have. Shorter memories than others. Some people have longer memories than others. But this was about six years ago. We're talking about something that happened in 2019 after the session that year. Burroughs and Bonnen were trying to cut a deal.
And this, again, goes to this idea that Burroughs is some kind of a moderate. Burroughs and Bonnen were trying to cut a deal with a right-wing group to stab in the back moderate Republicans. That's what they were trying to do. They were conspiring with this guy, Michael Quinn Sullivan, who's with a group called Empower Texans. They were talking with him in the speaker's apartment in the Texas Capitol and talking with him about.
You know, whether they could strike some deal to work together to work against Republicans in their primaries. Right. And this goes to whether Burroughs can be trusted, because, look, as we said at the beginning of this, the whole deal with the speakers race.
is whether you trust that the person's telling you the truth about how much support that they have, right? So I've had some people ask me, can Burroughs be trusted? Well, my frame of reference for it is this meeting where Bonin and Burroughs spent some time. lying about what had happened in that meeting. And I had someone call me yesterday, Jeremy.
a member of the house called me and said, Hey, you remember that meeting that Burroughs and Bonin had with that far right guy? Is there a transcript that they said? Well, they asked me if I remembered it and they asked me if there's a transcript of it. And I said, there's audio of it. There are people in Austin who don't remember that the reason that Bonin eventually had to quit was because the actual audio of the meeting was released by these right-wing guys he was trying to cut a deal with.
Let me play a little bit of it here for you. Evan and I went through it. It's about an hour long, and I'll link the audio. At QuorumReport.com, you can check it out. It's actually linked in a column I published a few days ago. Burroughs and Bonnen tried to cut this deal.
By backstabbing some of these Republican members in the House. And this was Bonin telling this guy, Michael Quinn Sullivan, that he just wanted to find some way that they could work together to go after and take out these moderate Republicans. moderate Republicans who don't want to help on anything, I'm still unable to do what you and I would want done, and then maybe not even more you would want done, okay?
And that's a monumental shift. Judge Strauss wanted to govern from there and screw here. I want to govern from here and screw there. Bonin also trashed Democrats. He was trying to plot against Republicans, but he trashed Democrats as well. in this conversation with Sullivan. He said that Representative John Rosenthal from Houston is, and there's rough language in this, he said that Rosenthal is, quote, a piece of shit, and he suggests that he's gay.
And all of them in the room, including Burroughs, are laughing at Rosenthal. I can't stand it. I mean, John Rosenthal makes my skin crawl. He's a piece of shit. Gavin Massingale said it well. I'm begging this is all confidential. After we meet with him the first time, he leaves. I said, what do you think of him? And he goes, well, his wife's going to be really pissed when she learns his game.
John Rosenthal is one of the nicest men in the Texas House of Representatives, an engineer who is just a problem solver. Trying to get things done. Remember we had reported earlier in the year that Rosenthal was one of those who was teaming with Republicans in the Houston area to try to get more money for public education. The Cypher School District, which is facing layoffs and everything like that.
is on Burroughs' list of supporters now, roughly about six years later, even after that conversation was had and was revealed in this recording. And so what else was – What Bonin and Burroughs are going to do to try to cut this deal with these right-wingers? Well, they were going to put right-wing operatives on the floor of the House during the legislative session, and they were going to kick a journalist who you have heard of.
off the floor of the house. If we can make this work, I'll put your guys on the floor next session. Or take them off, by the way. Well, and here's what I want. I'll do what Patrick did. I'll take Braddock off. So there was some animus against me for some reason, Jeremy. Burroughs said that I was a sleazebagger.
Or something. Listen to this. I want to be very clear. I'm also not the guy sitting over there with Scott Braddock telling him shit because I don't trust or like him. I think he's sleazy. Sleazy. Okay. All right. People have asked me this. A lot of questions that I've gotten over the last few days, Jeremy.
Am I somehow upset with Chairman Burroughs for having said that? Well, first of all, that was almost six years ago. At the time, I wasn't mad at him or angry because I just didn't really understand what it was about. My charitable reading of it was that if – Bonin and Burroughs thought that I would be the journalist that the right wing enforcement machine in this state would hate the most, I was fine with that. That if these guys were trying to ingratiate themselves.
with this right-wing warlord, as he's been described. If they were trying to impress him by bad-mouthing me, well, okay, fine. I might even take that as a compliment. No, I have no anger at Burroughs, and I hope he... is if he listens to the show that's great um i hope he's made aware of this comment that i'm about to make which is this no i have no ill will toward the man and i have had a great working relationship with every
Speaker of the House that I have covered except one, and that was Bonin, who for whatever reason decided that he was not going to be able to work with me early on in his speakership. Which was also strange because before he was Speaker, Jeremy, we had a good working relationship when he was a chairman, when he was the Ways and Means chairman. And I think he had the Environmental Reg Committee before that. And I could always have a good back and forth with Bonnen. But I will say this.
I have seen some folks, when they ascend to higher office, they change. There are certain things that happen. that will make people change in their attitudes about certain people and about the way that they do things. And that's one of the reasons that I'm telling folks that even though Burroughs might be telling a lot of folks exactly what they want to hear right now, as soon as you give him the gavel, he might be a little bit...
Now, what they think about me doesn't really matter. I just wanted you to have the full context on that. What they think about the leaders of local government is much more important. That issue we were talking about before. With this war on local governments, Bonin and Burroughs really hate.
Those county judges and commissioners and mayors, and it's not me saying that they hate them. They say that they hate them in this recording. Bonin called county judges dumbasses if they came to meet with him, and Burroughs agrees and promises to make each session worse.
and worse for all of those local leaders in this office and in the conference room on that end any mayor county judge is dumb ass enough to come meet with me i told them with great clarity My goal is for this to be the worst session in the history of the learning center for cities and counties.
I hope the next session is even worse. That's Burroughs there at the end saying, I'll make the next session even worse, or I hope the next session is even worse. And as was pointed out to me, at least on that, he's definitely a man of his word because he said he'd make it worse, and he certainly did in that next session. legislative session.
Well, and the key point to understand about that, when he's taking on, you know, these county judges and mayors, it's like, remember what Texas is, right? We got 254 counties. And you know what? I'm just going to guess we're probably. 230 of them elect Republicans as their leaders. He's talking about other Republican leaders, county judges, like throughout, like those people on West Texas, people on East Texas, down in South Texas. It's like to put them all in the same kind of bucket and then.
blast all of them. It's like... Wow. It's not like he's just – look, we're used to hearing the legislature have problems with Austin and Houston. We're used to this. We've grown up – but Houston is a little bit more recent because it did have Republican leaders. you know not too distant past sure but like it's still like it's still just kind of shocking to hear two republicans conspiring to
make life miserable for 254 counties. Most of them are run by Republicans. Why would you do that? Why would you think that they're your enemy? So does that mean the Republican in San Saba County is your enemy? I don't really understand that. I'll need a better understanding. And part of it, one of the things that happens in politics, obviously, and we've seen this happen on the presidential level, the people who were once enemies of...
of Donald Trump becoming his friends, becoming parts of his cabinet, that type of stuff. You see enemies in politics all of a sudden always come together at some point, right? And so Burroughs has to hope that that kind of exists too. him now right you know he needs
People have kind of that – I like to think of it as like a relief pitcher in baseball. They have to have a short memory about that last outing. If you get smoked, you just got to pretend it didn't happen. You just got to carry on. And Burroughs seems to be kind of doing that, right?
trying to carry on. Like none of that stuff happened in the past. You know, it's like, you know, it's like, we're just going to focus on today. I don't care about yesterday's blow up where I called every county leader, you know, an idiot essentially. And, you know, went to war with some of these. these Democrats, but now I want all y'all's support.
Get behind me. Come to my fundraiser. Kind of help me out here if you can. Yeah. Well, the window is closing for the fundraisers the last day that legislators can fundraise in the state. is coming up on the 14th. So it's two days from now. And so there's a month before the legislative session where they're not allowed to fundraise. As I mentioned, Burroughs has a fundraiser tonight in Houston. It'll be interesting to see. And believe me, I'll find out what the.
what the turnout is like for that fundraiser where Burroughs had been billing himself as the speaker elect and then backed off of that. And now he's calling himself chairman again. It was my understanding that they weren't getting too many RSVPs for that. I would note that the amounts for the sponsorship of the fundraiser didn't change when he changed the title on it from speaker-elect to chairman. It was still $50,000 for the highest sponsorship and $25,000. These are big amounts.
So when somebody can claim that they have the speakership in hand, which Burroughs has been trying to do, guess what? This is significant. If it was just clear that he was going to be the speaker, they would have a fundraiser tomorrow. at the Four Seasons and the Austin lobby would line up and donate $3 million, right? They would bring checks and that would add up to that. That's what they did with Phelan. That's what they did with Bonin. It looks like that's not happening. And in the meantime,
There are folks wondering whether some third candidate will emerge here, and I get questions about who that might be. So as we've said here, it could be any Republican member of the House pretty much. As you said, they all get up in the morning and –
Comb their hair and say Mr. Speaker or Madam Speaker to brush their hair and look in the mirror. These are the names that have been – I'll name names because people always want me to do that. And again, these are not predictions. This is just me saying. Which names have been mentioned? And think about what the person would have to do. Let's say that you have Burroughs and Cook stalled out below the 76 threshold.
Well, what would the person have to do? They would have to unite Republicans, at least enough of them, and get some Democratic votes to be able to get back up to 76 to put that list together. Who could do that? That's why these names are being floated. Write them down, Jeremy. Todd Hunter, who's been the state affairs chairman. He's jotting it down. Drew Darby from West Texas, who's an anti-voucher Republican. Charlie Guerin.
Who is from Fort Worth. He is one of those senior members of the Republican caucus who is well-respected on both sides of the aisle. And this name that was interesting, Ryan Guillen from South Texas, has been mentioned. It's interesting. It speaks to a larger narrative that we'll get to in just a moment about how Republicans are having all the success in South Texas to trying to move those folks who have been Democrats, move them over into the Republican column.
Guillen is an example of that. He was a Democrat who switched parties. Now he's a Republican and would be the first Hispanic speaker in the history of Texas. Believe me, Republicans would love that be the narrative. Love for that to be the narrative out of this, that they elected the first Republican who's a Hispanic as the speaker, and especially one from South Texas where their whole national narrative has been that they are flipping all those counties from blue to red.
Yeah, it tells you a lot about our state's history when we're talking about 2025, maybe having the first Hispanic speaker ever. It shocks my soul to think that I can't believe that, you know. But secondly, there's a really... big point here that you're kind of hitting on with the fundraising. This is not a small thing. The way this has played out with Dade Phelan flaming out at the time he did, this timing puts...
house in a really precarious spot when it comes to fundraising. Like we mentioned, they have two days to raise money. Now, for whoever the next speaker is, that money can be used for messaging around the state and trying to help kind of get their message out. You know, in years past, you have more time to kind of build up. You know, when a speaker's gone, like you kind of.
work out for the next one. You're like, when Bonin was gone, you could actually start raising money, right? You know, it's like for the next, whoever the next person was. But people were giving money to Phelan still. It's like, so Dave Phelan was raising money. Guess what? He doesn't have to share any of that.
You know, it's not like he's going to go, here, guys, y'all can have all this money back from the Adelsons. I don't need it now. That's not going to happen. You know, it's like, so now whoever, you know, has to kind of get their fundraising. up and going really fast and get ready for this next session because guess what the messaging from the governor's office and the senate president i.e lieutenant governor they have a ton of money
They can do all the messaging they want right now and run circles around the House. You know, I'm not saying this is make or break it, but this is certainly a factor kind of in things like I think it just puts the House Republicans, whoever their speaker is, they're just going to be at a disadvantage in trying. to message against, you know, items if they're running in, you know, it's one thing if they're all on the same team, but we've noticed in Texas history recently that Governor Abbott...
Dan Patrick and whoever the speaker of their house don't always see eye to eye on stuff, you know, and you're going to want to be able to get your own messaging out there. And now the question becomes, how are the Republicans in the House going to do that? Who is going to do that? We don't even know who the person is. How do you give them money? And where are you going to get that money? Because you clearly can't raise any more money once we get into this dark period. So now what?
And so I think keep an ear out for that, because I think that's going to be a problem when we get into the legislative session. You know, if there's heat coming on House members, who's going to be there to defend them? Who's going to help them? Who's going to help with the messaging? Who's going to be paying the travel bill to go to places and rally the troops? That's what I want to know.
Yeah. And, you know, I think that in this environment, when you have all of these outside forces trying to influence what's happening in the speakers race, you got to get it. I mean, for those who are already on a list, it's possible. That that may not matter later. But I mean, all these people who were sort of stampeded into being on Burroughs list.
and they might be worried that if someone else ends up speaker, that that'll be held against them. This is chaotic enough a situation where that might not be the case, that they end up out in the cold. Because I do think this is true. These are just some...
Just some thoughts about all of it. One, as I said, lots of baseball left to play. A full month before the House votes on who the Speaker will be. Two, you have... the possibility of a speaker being elected by one of these two groups the i'll just for shorthand i'll say the david cook group which is exclusively republicans
at this point even though we know he's doing outreach to democrats now because there's no way to be elected speaker without some democratic support but you have the david cook group and then you have the group that's with burroughs I would say that the boroughs group right now, as far as being able to work with members in both parties, is more flexible.
They can add Democrats here, lose some Republicans there on the David Cook side. They're kind of only working with Republicans so far. So in my estimation, the group that's with Burroughs now would be more likely to be able to elect a speaker. Even if it's not Burroughs, if that makes sense. On the Cook side, they can probably only elect either Cook or some Republican who would be able to put 76 votes together who are only Republicans.
or are almost exclusively Republicans, they might get two or three Democrats, right? But that makes it so much harder for the Cook group to elect a speaker. You see what I'm saying? On the Burroughs side, they have room to maneuver in that Burroughs group, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Burroughs would end up being the guy. Look, you might see over the course of the next month, Burroughs become, as he's attacked by.
Donald Trump Jr., some of the other people we've talked about, as he's attacked, he may become more politically toxic than Phelan was in the estimation of some of these Republicans. And they might go to Burroughs and say, hey. Now you have to step aside and we're going to make room for one of these other Republicans and in an environment where Patrick is going to be attacking the House and Abbott is going to be doing everything he can to influence the House.
Members that I named who are senior members who it might be their last session and they might be comfortable having people just know and believe that it's their last session and that they don't. care if they're attacked by Patrick and they don't care if they're under pressure from Greg Abbott because the, let me repeat this, the first standing order of a presiding officer is that you protect the body that elected you.
And to be able to do that, sometimes you have to be able to take political heat that all of those other Republicans wouldn't be able to take. If Greg Abbott is pissed at the House because they're just not passing his voucher deal. Well, the other Republicans in the House would really appreciate if the person he's pissed at is the speaker and not them, right? That maybe the speaker is just not letting it come to the floor. The same way that Patrick was so mad at Joe Strauss years ago.
When Strauss wouldn't allow the bathroom bill to come to the floor, there were a lot of Republicans who didn't really agree with the bathroom bill, even though they said that if it came to the floor, they would vote for it. But a lot of them secretly, privately, they appreciated that Strauss was the one taking the heat, taking the slings and arrows over that. This is why being the speaker politically in this state is a dead-end job. Once you're the speaker…
You don't run for anything else. Dade Phelan probably thought at some point he could run for Congress out there in Beaumont, the seat that Randy Weber has now. That's not going to happen now after the kind of primaries that he dealt with this last year.
Republican primary voters have been given a very clear impression of him. Joe Strauss probably wanted to run for Congress down in San Antonio. It wasn't going to happen after he was the speaker here, right? And it has been over the years the people who ran for speaker. but did not win, those are the ones who used the race for speaker as a springboard to other things. So Ken Paxton did that when he ran against Joe Strauss years ago.
And he used that as a springboard to run for the state Senate and then the attorney general. And now he's one of the top allies of President-elect Trump. And you see Paxton and Trump teaming up against Dade Phelan this last year. Brian Hughes did the same thing. He ran against Joe Strauss years ago when Hughes was a House member. He used that as a springboard to run for the Texas Senate. Scott Turner, who is now going to be in the next Trump administration, he ran against Joe Strauss years ago.
And then he used that as his springboard to then become a member of the first Trump administration, now the second Trump administration. It's the unsuccessful bid for Speaker that is a stepping stone to something else. The successful bid for Speaker. is the dead end road. That's the last job you're probably going to have in politics.
Yeah, and it wasn't always the case. You go back in Texas history, you know, Sam Rayburn, you know, the legendary U.S. House speaker, he was a speaker of the House in Texas. You know, he used that to kind of get him up, you know, to that next level. But that's the old politics, right?
We're not seeing that happen anymore. Now, I kind of compare it to almost like Dallas Cowboys football coach, right? There was a time that was the greatest coach job you could ever want, right? But now we're seeing it's not a springboard to anything. It's a dead-end job.
you're going to lose that job and everybody's going to complain about you. You know, it's the kind of the same kind of deal, you know, it's just like, you don't want that job unless you're for damn sure going to do something miraculous, you know, it's like, and I just don't know, you know, what, you know, a speaker.
has to do, again, the pressure you have to take from the other chamber and from the governor and from all the talking heads out there and an endless supply of Fox News, that's a lot to take on for anybody. So you need to have a speaker who has the thick skin and can deliver the message coolly and calmly, even when they're under attack, maybe from truth social.
Right. Right. I'm going to mention one other thing here, Evan. I'm going to move on to Senator Morgan Lamontia's comments that she told Jeremy the other day about women in the legislature.
and how many more women that there are now than there were in the past. Of course, this number has gone up and down in the House a little bit. There was a point where there's been an ebb and flow to this, I should say, Jeremy. But you were looking at the numbers on that, and it is different from... what it was before.
Yeah, I did a piece in the Texas Tech newsletter earlier this week. Thanks in part to Texas Women's University. I worked with the Center for Women in Government on trying to get this data together. So we're up to 61 women that are going to be in. in this next legislative session. That is a record by a long shot. in Texas politics. We have not seen that. Granted, it's only 34% of the legislature at this point, so there's surely a lot of people who point out.
It is a 50-50 population and so way behind schedule. Some places like New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, they have 50% of their legislature are women at this point, but not here. But what's happened in Texas is really... odd right you know we at one point like we were back in the mid 80s we had 15 women uh in the legislature and you're like my god that's really
way behind the rest of the country. But then we had this surge. We jumped up to 33 within the next decade. We doubled our number in a decade. But then it just stayed flat there. For a long time, until 2018. We went from 33 to 36, you know, from 1995 to 2018. It's like the number just didn't change. This time around, though, you know, thanks a lot to a lot of retirees.
requirements, some primary challenges, whatever. It's like we ended up now, we're at 61, which is a 74% or about 70% increase from just seven years ago. in the Texas legislature. And the question I was, I talked to both Donna Howard and Morgan Lamatia, Senator Matia, about this, right? About like what it's been like.
You know, to see Texas women are starting to make gains, at least in the legislative bodies, to make it look more reflective of what our demography is, right? We are 50-50, you know. state, what does that mean for Texas going forward as we get better or closer to that number? And here's what Senator LaMantia had to say. Well, I mean, if you look at it, I mean, historically from the beginning to now, yes, it's getting better.
Even in recent history, I talked to Dean Zaffarini, and she was saying that when she first came in, you know, there wasn't a women's bathroom, and they had to go all the way to the other side of the building to go to the bathroom. So they finally got a women's lounge and got it built so that there is now a women's bathroom.
the back hallway and over there for just the funeral centers to go and use instead of having to walk all the way, you know, further away, which is time is of the essence in a lot of times in the legislature. So things have changed and they have improved a lot. But we still have so much more to go. Now, you might think that it's a small thing to have there be a restroom for women right off the Senate floor. Something she said there reminded me of something that happened.
A few years back, Jeremy, where – and this is important. Proximity is everything at the Capitol. Proximity to power, right? So the story she told there about Senator Zaffirini, who's now the dean of the senate, the former dean of the senate was John Whitmire who was the … who now is the mayor of Houston. So her story reminds me of two things. One is that when Barbara Jordan served in the Texas Senate before she was in Congress, there was not a restroom where African-Americans could use.
could go to the bathroom next to the Senate floor. And a Republican staffer told me that that had to change real quick and said, quote, no one was going to tell Ms. Jordan where to go to the restroom. That was the first thing. And then second is this. You heard her say that time can be of the essence when things are happening in the Senate. John Whitmire, when he was a senator years ago.
This goes back to the – I believe this was the 2009 session. Republicans were getting really desperate to pass voter ID, which of course has been a huge controversy over the last decade. has really subsided and even democrats will tell you now that they've just had to figure out how to live with it and you know how to campaign based on the fact that people need voter id but did you know this that in so they passed voter id in 2011
And they made rules changes specifically such that the voter ID bill would not be subject to the same thresholds for passage as other bills in 2019. Tommy Williams, who's a senator from. from the Woodlands made that change at the time. But in 2009, when they were trying to pass it, here's what happens on the floor of the Senate. At that time, it took two-thirds of senators to agree. to bring a bill up for debate. They called this the two-thirds rule, and we don't have that anymore.
But we still have a version of it. Now basically the rule is if all the Republicans want to do something, then they do it. And that's what empowers – that's what really empowers Dan Patrick. But back in 2009, the rule was that two-thirds of senators had to agree. The lieutenant governor at the time, David Dewhurst, waited until John Whitmire went to the men's room.
And when Whitmire went to the men's room, it changed the math on the floor such that there were two-thirds of senators on the floor who would agree to bring it up. So while Whitmire was in the bathroom taking a leak as he came out and angrily – stated, while he was in there taking a leak, they brought up the voter ID bill. And Whitmire comes...
Running out of the – there's a speaker. There's a sound system in the men's room. He can hear what they're doing out on the floor. So he comes running out of the men's room and basically says, what the hell are you all doing? And he got the Senate to do something that they haven't done before or since. He got the Senate to retake the vote to move forward on the bill, which they had already taken while he was in the restroom. Right. And the point is.
That Lamentia is exactly right, that for anybody – and it's so much harder for women to have access to the process, to be part of the process that is already kind of rigged against the minority party. which she's in. It couldn't be more important for changes to be made at the Capitol, for those accommodations to be made, for women to be part of the process. But look, I mean, she says that we've got a long way to go.
I'll just point out she's going to be succeeded by a man in the Senate now because she just lost her race. to incoming Senator Adam Hinojosa, who's from who's also from South Texas. And so, you know, it's always it seems like on these kind of things, Jeremy. For women and for minorities of the capital, a lot of times it's sort of like one step forward and two steps back.
And so there's this constant push to make things better and to make things more equitable as long as you have a Republican state where a lot of these folks always joke about how it seems like everybody at the Capitol is an old white man. Well, not anymore. That's been changing, but it's not without the work, the very hard work of a lot of people.
Yeah, the stuff that Judith Zaffarini had to put up with when she got elected to the legislature, into the Texas Senate, like, you know, you heard it from Senator LaMontilla there. But, you know, so in 1986, when Zaffarini... was running, there was one woman in the Texas Senate. One! That's it. So when she got elected that year, a couple of them had gotten elected. They were up to three. It's unbelievable. Again, 50-50 is what our population is, and it just kind of blows your mind.
So to have women represented on issues that obviously affect them too. was relying on one or two or three women who could say, hey, I've been a mother. Maybe I could add to this conversation or maybe just some life experiences that the old white guys just couldn't possibly have gotten.
have understood in the same way. And essentially, I also talked to Donna Howard about this. She was at the same event I was at. And she said, look, it's great that the numbers are improving, but that is not necessarily... It doesn't mean like... more women means better legislation and better outcomes on everything. She recognized that right away. The problem for the Texas legislature, what makes us less representative of the state is...
The fact that it's a part-time legislature, that you can only have wealthy people who really have jobs that allows them to spend months at a time off of their jobs and going to Austin. It's like, how many people can do that? socioeconomic standpoint, you're just not going to be able to get like...
a lot of normal working class Texans involved in the legislative process. But she said, certainly we're making gains with women, and you're hoping those lived experiences by women help kind of... you know better shape public policy so you know policies being crafted for both men and women. Shocker, right? What an outrageous concept. You know, maybe everybody kind of gets to see the table at some point. But the moral of the story is these numbers are getting better. We're not the worst.
We're not the best state in the nation, but 61 is significant. That's a big deal from the Texas I grew up in. And I'm sure there's a lot of women out there who now when they go to the legislature, if you're a staffer or you're an elected official or lobbyist, like there are more women involved in the process that you can have, you know, you can see yourself in other.
people there and it's probably good for when school kids come to the legislature in the House or the Senate you know you got a bunch of you know kids up there who can see both men and women leading the state and not just old white men. All right, Jeremy got into this in his newsletter, which you can check out on his X page. It's the pinned post there, at Jeremy S. Wallace, is his handle on X, which I still just call it Twitter. If you're into the intersection of politics,
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