Jimmy Iovine

Tetragrammerton. I let me tell you something. I have, it's so weird. Maybe it was the inspiration for me calling you, but I have not, when I get into a thing with music, I just don't stop. This fucking Johnny cares shit. I mean Danny Boy. Yeah, you fucking mind. I would have never thought of that. You know when you hear something you always, even today I'm retired or this shit. Pull it closer to you. Pull it closer. Oh yeah, okay. I'm retired and stuff, but I say, I wish I thought of that.

You know what I mean? I didn't think of that. Johnny thought of Danny Boy. No, I'm talking about Johnny. About Johnny. I wish I thought of that. You know, it didn't happen in a normal way. I'll tell you the story if you want to hear. Yeah, I do. It was, I was not thinking about Johnny Cash. It was more of an experiment because I was a kid at the time. I produced a bunch of records fast, but only you know, maybe doing it for five years. So like that not a long time. Yeah, what year was it?

I don't know, 80, probably a few years after I met you. I was thinking about when we first met, which is unbelievable to me. I was still in college when we met. We first met in Paul Schindler's office. Fuck. 37 years ago. Wow. And you may have been the first professional record producer I ever met. He represented you. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. And I can't, and I remember the conversation. The conversation we had because it was a strange conversation. Oh, that's right.

I had just produced my first rock album by a band called The Cult, Band From England. And I produced that album and I was excited just because I never did that before. I already made some hip-hop singles. I don't even know if I had any albums yet, just single hip-hop stuff. And I played you a song. And I remember you said, I wish I could still do something that's simple. Like it was so rudimentary because I didn't know anything. I just recorded the band. Well, you know, I didn't do anything.

It's so funny you say that because when you get to a certain point producing records, I found you stop making the first albums. And even if you make that first album, you produce it like it's that third. Yeah. It's just the innocence and the ignorance. And then I even powerful that ignorance and innocence is. Yes. It's so, yes. Yes. And you just, you end up, you have too much information. Yeah. You have too much into the studio and somebody's first album. And you have too much information.

Yeah. You're not all in the same place. Yeah. Right? Yeah. No, it's fascinating. I know. I would have heard that and said, yeah, wish I could just stop. That's what, that's what it was like. And it didn't make sense to me because you're a professional. I'm a kid in school. Right. I make this record not knowing anything. And your reaction was, yeah, wish I could like do it like that. It's like, I'm sure you've done it like that. What do you mean? Like it didn't compute, but it's fascinating.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's, it's, it's true though. I've always thought of that. I think about that now in my life where I just, Bob Seger had the best line ever. I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then. That's a great line. That says it all. Isn't that a great line? Yeah. I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know. Did you ever, did you have work with Seger? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had no idea. Tell me about it.

Yeah. Well, I got caught at a period of time where I came out to LA with Tom Petty. And I came out first with John Lennon in 1973. And then I went to New York and I lived in New York. So I went and I worked at the record plan on, you know, on Bruce and Petty Smith. And, and, and a few things like that. And then I came out in 79 to do them with torpedoes with Tom. And it worked, which we'll get into. I, I, when I rolled into Stevie Nicks, right? Because I, I, I, Damage, torpedoes came out.

How label heard it. They liked it. She loved Tom Petty. All of it came together. And so I went in with her. And that was cool. And then all of a sudden, I became a California record producer. Wow. You know what I mean? Wow. Which was like, did you, do you have to decide to move out here? Or was it obvious once you were going to stay? No, one time was here. Well, I can't move that here. I think the same reason most New Yorkers move in English, move out here as the weather.

Yeah. You know, I came out here in 1973. Yeah. And I just called my mother and said, how'd you get this wrong? Wow. You know, like this is where we, you know, just the quality of life. It's just, it was fucking December. And it was like 75 degrees. And I'm like, holy shit. I asked a guy at the Beverly Hills Hotel. It was John put me up at this really rich hotel. I said, you have dox here because my dad was a longshoreman, right? I said, you have dox here? He goes, I got dox here. I got dox here.

It's the biggest port in New York, America. I said, wow. It's like, oh, my mom, I said, how'd you get it wrong? I do, you know, the fuck? I said, the regular people live here. That's, you know the kind of question. Yeah. You know, you have do regular people live here. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. Of course. So I said, the regular people, they're like, I'm a regular person. I live here. I mean, you just asked the dumbest questions. But so I did. And when I was growing up.

Because you only, you had a fantasy of California from seeing it on TV. Yeah. That's all we knew was like, when I was 17, we were programmed to only like the stones and the beetles and not the beach boys. Because they were from California. You know what I mean? That's interesting. So we had one guy on our street. I come from an Italian neighborhood. They call Stivocent. And he had a beach boys album. But he also was the only guy in the street with blonde hair. Because he wasn't Italian. I see.

I see. Right. I see. So I don't like the beach boys. We like new year. We like the stones and the beetles and vanilla fudge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, vanilla fudge is incredible. Yeah. And Leslie Weston mountain, you know, has to kind of show what it was like. And it was do-up already done for me, do-up that my life started at Sullivan De Beatles. Yeah. Ground zero. Do you remember seeing it on TV? No. I remember sitting on my mother's blue shirt carpet. You know, right in front of the RCA TV.

How old were you, probably? I was exactly all I was. I was, it was a month or six weeks before my 11th birthday. Wow. There was 63, right? Yeah. I think so. 63 or 64. If it was 64, then it was 11 or 12 years old. Yeah, 11 or 11. 10 or 11. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But little kid, you see this and it just blows your mind. And I begged for a guitar from the day after that. No, no, it more than blew our mind. It, it, it shocked. I was in grade school. And I remember going to Catholic school with nuns.

And I remember we all tried to comb our hair forward, right? And I remember, I was a good kid in school. You know, I would never look for trouble. Yeah. So we all did that and the nuns said, you too, Jimmy. James. Wow. I said, yeah, I'm a Beatles fan, you know what I mean? And then what was it? Again, hard to know. I can't put myself there because I was later than you. But when you saw it, what was so different about that than what had come before?

Well, it was, it was a shock of all things at once. First of all, it was a band playing the songs. Yeah. Like Elvis had a backup band. He wasn't a musician. He was a singer. So these guys were singing. There was four of them. Yeah. And three of them were singing and they all had these haircuts. Yeah. And they was like, how does land here? What is this? This was like nothing I've ever seen.

And then you hear the hype before, Murray the K, they're coming, they're coming, they're screaming, the girls are screaming. Then you see on the news, the Beatles land, they say stadium. And the frenzy was insane. And I remember singing it and just my mind exploded. And any friends of mine that are in music, including Springsteen, he talks about it all the time. You know, he was older than me because he's like, I think he's four years older than three, three years older than me.

So he must have been 14. But it was never, and by the way, I've been around a lot of shit since then. Never, nothing ever felt like that. And it was all organic. There wasn't, there was no big machine push behind it. No. It was sort of out of the blue, it just happened. Yeah, they, they have, Tromba got a record deal as you know. And it just, but when they landed on it, sold them and they landed, the world changed at that moment. It really was.

It was, remember, it was right after the Kennedy assassination, which was very fresh in homage. So it must have been 64 because Kennedy got killed in 63. Yeah. It changed everything and then you got to tell me just, just gotten killed, which was big, which was as big as that. Did everyone love Kennedy? Yeah. Well, my name was, you know what I mean? And he was like, he was young, first time young president, who seemed cool. Yeah, he was the first president I paid attention to in my life, right?

So, you know, and it was, and he was young and he was, they had him and the wife. They were handsome, the little kids. It was something that didn't look, you know, before him was Eisenhower. Yeah. And he was a general, like a soldier, like, who's released to that, right? So, and then when he got killed, I remember being at school, it was, so those two things happened at once. Where'd he go to school? Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary. Nice, in Brooklyn? Yeah. Everything was in Brooklyn.

Yeah. Your whole world was in Brooklyn. You know, there was, you know, Manhattan was the land of ours. It was like every now and then you got to go there. Like, you know, if your parents took you away, you went, you know, not until I was 16, that I ever got to Manhattan for something of my own, 17 years old. And what were the kids like? What was this? Tell me the world. Tell me what the world was like then, yeah. It was all 100% Italian. Yep. It was right by the battery tunnel in Brooklyn.

Most of the kids, like parents, first generation. Yeah. Some of the, some of the parents, well, there was grandparents Italian. There were parents Italian. And then there were Italian kids that came over. Oh, cool. Right? Cool. So it was very, very, even in that it was siloed. You know, it was people from Calabria, the people from Naples. They were different. You know, my family was from Ischia.

You know, and everybody kind of stayed together, you know, and, but they mixed somewhat, you know, but more than with anyone else, but not as much as with their, yeah, yeah, with their own, you know, like, you know, like my grandmother would always say, of course,

he's Calabraes, you know, would be like, of course, he's like a stubborn, you know, I mean, you know, but, but we all spent time together, but it was a really very, very Italian, you know, fish hanging from the, in the fish stores and church and Catholic and few Irish spread around here and there, right next to the projects in Red Hook. You see, we were Red Hook when I was little, but then I was 16. It became Cal Gardens. You know where that pizza place is, the Cal, right?

Yes. Yes. So I grew up on block from the Cal. Yeah. So, and it was real, real Italian, you know, and so everything I knew, we wouldn't speak Italian or no. We wouldn't speak Italian because if your grandmother tried to talk to you, they'd think the whole thing was about being American. Everybody wanted to be American. Absolutely. I see. If you spoke Italian, because even the kids that came over from Italy, they didn't hang out with the American Italians.

They hung out in the expresso shop and the Italians hung out in the candy store. I see. And it was very, very, very different and it was, it was, it was like that. It was very, very, for example, my grandfather made wine in the basement. I live with my grandparents and my mother and my, right? And he used to want to give us wine for dinner, like 13. Yeah. I would say nope Pepsi. Because you were American. Because Brooklyn's Pepsi. Yeah. Brooklyn is Pepsi.

Brooklyn, you know, because they, it was the mob and they had the distribution and all that stuff, right? And you, was the presence of the mob. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God. Absolutely. It was the galor gang was there. You know, they, they were members of the 60s. And were people afraid of them or tell me what was like, what is the vibe? Well, you know, you, you, you, you worked around very casual. They're like people doing their own neighborhoods and any rough neighborhood.

But you knew and you knew who was, yeah, who was a, who was a tough guy and who wasn't, you know, who was, and they weren't really looking for trouble. They were. And my, and my neighborhood, but, but, you know, I didn't own a business or anything like that. But I'm sure there was stuff going on, you know what I mean? And, you know, you, you just don't fuck with them. You know what I mean?

It was that kind of, it was that kind of thing, you know, and, but, you know, my dad knew some of the guys, you know, and stuff like that. My best friend's uncle, actually, his backyard was connected to mine. He was one of the galo guys, you know, and, yeah, there was right there. It was very, very much right there. And at this time when your kid, are there, um, Duke Boxes, was that the absolute thing of the culture? Absolutely. In the candy store.

My, my aunt was, it was the kind of little and dots. It was her candy store. We used to all go in there, little, little candy store. You fit 30 people, 30, it squeezed in and you play music and you candy, you know, and soda, you know, things like that. But it was a candy store. And what would be on the Duke Box, give me an example of that. Well, again, played this. We had the older kids, which was my sister. Yeah. So they had, do you want to dance in home?

You know, they had, um, they had the contours and they had the duop, but they also had rock and roll Elvis, right? And then they had an odd generation. We had the rascals and Vanilla Fudge. And then I remember when the doors first single came out, you know, when that sounded incredible on the Duke Box, right? And I remember Hendrix's first record came out. I heard that on the Duke Box. Everything was singles, you know? And then the album started, you know, but the album took off.

We had albums in our family of Frank Sinatra. And you know, first of all, you know, you grew up and that's all you hear is D-Mart and Frank Sinatra. Yeah. Not bad. No, no, no, no. But that's what's going on all the time. It's always, that's if you came to my house, that's pretty much what you get now. Yeah, yeah. Frank Sinatra, you know, Dean Martin, being cross-b, but Frank was really, really big, right? And Dean Martin. And you know, you, and they were still young. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

It was 65, 66. Yeah, yeah. And all the neighborhood, you know, there'll be a group of guys that will go to everybody's house for a drink on Christmas Eve. So it's generational. So we all hung out at the same place, but it was all generational. There were the little kids, the big guys, and the parents. And we, like my father's club was right next door to my candy store. And my father's club was a social club. Mm-hmm. And the candy store was essentially your social club? Yeah. Exactly.

And they were sisters, but different times, we very, really went into the same time. Because she had a different generation. She was seven years older than me. Still is. So, you know, it was that kind of environment, man. You know, it was like, it was nice. I mean, you know, talking about what made Sammy run, I couldn't wait to get the fuck out of it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, I mean, that's what it was like. It was very, very Italian. Everything was Italian.

You know, like, you know, church and, you know, school uniforms. And everybody talked like Brooklyn Italians, you know what I mean? Like the real, you know, Silent Night Fever or Good Felt. Is everybody talk like that? So you see the Beatles, changes your life, you get a guitar. And getting a band. You were in a band. Of course I was in a band. I had no idea. No, no, no. I was a bass player in a band. Great. I was a bass player. The worst guitar player plays bass. That's the rule.

That's how it is. Okay. Because in Gene, played guitar. He was better than me. Okay. And was it a four-piece band? Five-piece band. Oregon, one guitar, drums, and a singer. So there was one, two, three, four, five of us. And we had a band and we played. And then we got an agent in New York. So we played, again, we were a cover band. Yeah. That was it. And you played Beatles covers or Everybody's covers? Everybody's covers. Anything that we could play. The Stones were big, right?

We played some Beatles songs. We played the Rascals. We played Billy Joe's band. The hassles recovered his songs. Cool. Billy was incredible. We opened for them one day and one hour. Amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were long-awaited. He wasn't a singer. I didn't know that. There was a guy who was a singer. Billy sang too, but he wasn't the... He was just a keyboard player. He was an organ player. We play sang, but they did a song. If you get a chance, go listen to the hassles. You got me Herman.

Okay. And Billy Joe was in that band. He was a organ player. Amazing. Amazing. He was great. So he was a little older than me. Still is. I'm going to see him next Friday night with Stevie Nicks. Amazing. You got it? Where's he playing? So far. Herman, Stevie Nicks. I had no idea. I had no idea. Yeah, it's going to be awesome. Sounds good. Stevie's on fire. Really? Stevie's audience literally is 25 to 49. What's happened? I'm so happy for her. What's happened?

Something happened where she just connected with a younger group of people in a way. It feels like it's been going on for like 25 years. That's right. That's right. That's right. Any young female artist you talk to always talks about Stevie Nicks. It's always like that's one of the. That's it. No, she's a Rita. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? She's a Rita of rock and roll. Unbelievable. I know. And you know, I got to tell you something, man.

You've all recorded a lot of people to me in my world, the most natural instrument with Stevie Nicks. It was literally maybe two takes. She just opens her mouth and it was perfect. That's how she sings. And that's how she sings that song. Yes. That's it. Yes. And you just go, wow. So cool. Yeah. So cool. I mean, really, Trent and Atticus are working with her right now on my song. Yeah. The song is really, she wrote an incredible song. And yeah, so you know, I got it a band.

And then I, we started playing. We started getting some place. I mean, it's cover band. We played on Gannos, which was a hot hot club. We played Cafe Wav down the village, which was incredible. We played the eighth wonder. We played Trudy Hellers. We played all those places. Again, opening up for the illusion, you know, and all these bands, these Long Island, or, you know, what were the clubs on Long Island? Hunkamunker. Was my father's place already there? My father's place was a little later.

Okay. I saw some shows there when I was growing up. Yeah. Yeah, a little later. But those were, Hunkamunker was big. It was really big on Long Island, you know, and we played more in Manhattan. Yeah. We got lucky. We met this woman that was an agent. She lived on, I never been to 59th Street. She lived on 59th Street. We went there. And I remember just, you know, going up there with my band, and she said, I get you some gigs. And she did. And then, and then we broke up about 17, 18 years old.

And what I realized was that I was never going to be in the Rolling Stones. I got that, right? I was smart enough to know that. But I wanted to touch it. So I, I realized that there were people that made the records, right? There were people that were involved in the records. So I got, I met this and fortunate. I really got lucky. My cousin Pat knew this guy. I mean, show you how far away you were, or I was from any kind of, of course, gig, right? So it was an impossible idea.

It could be in the music business. Yes. So I meet this guy named Steve Tudang, a through my cousin, who was a background singer for the Archies. Wow. All right. The records. Yes. Background singer, not, not Ronnie Dante, a background singer. How do you mean Ronnie Dante? I met the background singer. And I imagine not a lot of touring work for the Archies, being as they were cartoons. No. Exactly. No, no, the Archies, the, right, the band, you know, the records, remember?

But the record they did, it was a cartoon band. That's exactly right. They only existed in that. That's exactly right. That's like, so he was a writing partner of a legendary woman named Ellie Greenwich. I know who Ellie Greenwich is. Right. From the real building, that era of writings. So I used to go to her apartment after school and after work. Incredible. I had a job with a leading male on King's Highway at the time. I remember. I had Ellie Greenwich and she had equipment in her room.

Did she live in Manhattan or in... She lived in Manhattan. I lived in Brooklyn. No, I lived in Brooklyn the whole time. So you're taking the train? Yeah. My mother's house. So I go to Ellie's house and I see she's writing and recording and then she started playing me some of the records that she produced. I mean, she wrote and produced Cherry Cherry. Yes. I mean, you know, on band records, right? Incredible. Wow, that sounded incredible.

She wrote so many, the Dooran Rahn, I can hear music, be my baby, chapel of love. She wrote all those records. She wrote River Deep Mount High. Incredible. Okay. I mean, fulfill, right? Yes. So one day she saw, and Carol King comes out, does tapestry. Somebody told her you should make an album. So she went in and wrote and did an album called Let It Be Written, Let It Be Song. So it invites me to the session. So I'm in the studio. First of all, I've been to a studio. Remember what studio was?

What year? What studio was it? Oh, yeah, ANR. ANR. ANR, Philharmoned Studio. Yeah. So I got my first job. Welcome to the house of Macadamias. Macadamias are a delicious, super food. Sustainably sourced directly from farmers. Macadamias, a rare source of Omega 7 linked to collagen regeneration, enhanced weight management, and better fat metabolism. Macadamias are healthy and bring boosting fats. Macadamias, paleo-friendly. Keto and plant-based. Macadamias.

No wheat, no dairy, no gluten, no ghee, M.O.s. No preservatives, no palm oil, no added sugar. House of Macadamias. I roasted with Namibian sea salt, cracked black pepper, and chocolate dips. Macbars come in chocolate, coconut white chocolate, and blueberry white chocolate. Visit houseofmacadamias.com slash tetra. Keto and IQ, a drinkable dose of ketones, discover more physical and mental potential, discover ketosis without fasting, ketones improve metabolic health and appetite control.

It's used by top performers for gentle, long-lasting energy. Keto and IQ. One dose in the morning for cognition up to three doses before a workout. No sugar, no caffeine. Keto and IQ. A metabolic superfuel. Place in order today at hvmn.com slash tetra. Keto and IQ. So absolute member studio was, and the engineer was named Elliot Shiner. He ended up doing all the steely Dan records. In those days he did whatever was available, but all big stuff.

At that point was he a studio engineer, meaning if you went to the studio he was your engineer. They weren't like engineer independent engineers. No, well I wasn't an independent engineer. I was part of the staff. The staff engineers. And you go there and they give you an engineer. Unless you go there and the guy did, like Zeppelin, you want him, right? Or something like that, right? You could ask for somebody, but you worked for it. So Elliot was a staff engineer for Phil Ramon.

Gotcha. Donnie Hahn, Elliot Shiner, there was a bunch of guys. And they were all very, very, very good. My boss at the record plant, Royce Acala, it was also one of those engineers, but he was already at the record plant. So I go in and she's out there singing Chapel of, I remember it, right? And all the lights around and this candles. I say what the fuck is this, right?

This candles everywhere, kind of looked like a, like a, you know, the village or something, you know, but it was this real sterile building. And this guy, Elliot Shiner's there and he's making the record. I said, what is he, what is that? Because he's a recording engineer. He's got these big knobs, you know, and he's turned the buttons and hit the... And this point is it like four track or eight track? No, no, it's eight and sixteen. Eight and sixteen. It's nineteen seventy one.

Okay. 1972. Maybe you just ate track. Yeah, maybe a track. Probably, probably, yeah, yeah, yeah, probably eight track. And I saw that he had a leather bag and I'd never seen a leather bag before, especially on a guy. Yeah. He said, wow, look at that. And at the end of the session, a girl, this really pretty girl came in and he said, oh, okay, I'm going to go and forgot her name, whatever it was. And they left. I said, I don't know what this is, but I want that.

At that moment, I just said, I got it. Okay, the whole life you saw all in one. Yeah. The guy had a leather jacket, a leather bag, you know, clothes, right? I'm sorry. You're telling me. I'm superficial. I don't know what to say. You know, I'm going, I'm Italian. I'm going for the shit, you know what I mean? It's great. I'm about looking for substance. No. You know, I'm looking for a gig to get out of Brooklyn, get some money and buy clothes. Yes. All right. So that's it.

So anyway, so Ellie Greenwich got me a job in that studio. Amazing. Right. So what happens is I get a 90, 90, I'll tell you a great story of them. I get a 90 day trial in that 90 day trial. One day an assistant, I was below an assistant at A&R. An assistant couldn't make it in. So the assistant, no, the engineer couldn't make it. So the assistant did the job. I became the assistant. It was a Saturday. It was James Brown. Wow. Right. So I'm in there.

I'm just terrified of everything, not just James Brown, an object fear. I don't have to do anything. Of course. Right. So, so we do the vocal. Every time he would come into the control room and sit in the director's chair, this guy would pick his hair because the headphones would dent his afro. Yes. Right. So we do that, had a towel around them. There was a guy that just just put towels around them and stuff, you know. Even in the studio. Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, in the studio.

Absolutely. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, first time I ever saw anything like that. I was like, wow, that's incredible. It's incredible. As he's leaving the studio, well, for tell me more about how great James Brown was it like, could you believe what you were seeing? No, the guy would in the vocal group dancing, singing, you know, and just being James Brown. Unbelievable. Right. It was unbelievable, right? It was incredible.

But at the end of the session, I'm cleaning up the guy walks over to me. I think the guy's name was George, but I could be wrong. The guy walks over to me, puts $50 in my hand and says, Mr. Brown wants you to have this. How cool is that? Right. Maybe 50 Brown. So I go home and I run the next morning, Jerry DeCat, my drummer, comes over to my house. I looked at him and I said, I'm going to be rich here, okay? What do you mean you're going to realize it? Let me tell you something. I got $50.

Let's talk about how much $50 was then. 1972. What would it be like today? What would it be? I don't know. I got to look it up. No, in your estimation, the feel based on the feel of it. I guess let me talk it to it actually. Probably 250 bucks. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like money. Yeah. A lot of money. You know, like if somebody gives you a hundred bucks, somebody gives you 200 bucks, 250, that's how it feels like real money, right? Absolutely. I mean, I saw something in Gucci.

Yeah. What were you making in the studio just to... Oh, $4 an hour. Okay. Okay. So to put in perspective. Yeah, $4 an hour. Yeah. So I got home and I said, okay, you know me, I'm going to work every day. $50 a day, I got chalk in the street. $50 a day times 365 on top of my salary. I never got a tip again. Of course. But just... Yeah. You were inspired. Because when you come from that world, Rick, and so do you, you don't know anything. There's no sophistication. I didn't go to school.

I just, you know, I walked into this place because she told me to. And I'll tell you, even for the people who came from a more substantial background, no one tells teachers you had to be successful because nobody knows. No, not close. Nobody knows. No. So you're not going to be successful in that world. Yeah. They were, I mean, you know, it was crazy, right?

I mean, my mother and my sister before I went to work literally because I was brought up as the prince and Italian family with a bunch of women, right? Yeah. My aunt, my cousins are downstairs. They told me how to sweep the night before the gig. They told me how to literally have a sweep. Yeah. Because I knew I had to sweep. Yeah. I said, I don't know how to sweep. You never made me sweep. So they told me how to sweep. Amazing. It's pretty primitive. Right? So cool.

Mr. Brown wants you to have this. Mr. Brown wants you to have this. How cool is that? Unbelievable. I wish I kept it, but I needed it. But so 89 day, I get fired. And I said to me, his name was Don Hahn, right? He said to me, he was a chief engineer. He was everybody's boss. He said, you know, I'm sorry. He said, this is not for you. So I said, look, my father said, because I had left college, I said, my father said, if this doesn't work out, I've got to go back to school before I come home.

Yeah. What you don't want to do. He said, I don't know what to say. You know, because remember, I left school because of the draft. I got a high number in the lottery. I got like 265 and they didn't draft up until like 180. So the day that happened, I left school and went to work. So he said, sorry, you know, so I'm leaving. And this is where I got into the Rock and Roll of Fame recently and I said on a speech, I said about mentors and helping kids just be a mentor to kids.

Because this woman, Ellie, Greenwich, I colder up on the way home. But think about this for yourself. Yeah. I called from a pay for I said, Ellie, I was really, I was just sort of crying. Yeah. Of course. I got fired on the 89th day. She says, hang up, call me back in 10 minutes. She called a record plant. I called her back and she said, don't go home. I went, she says, go to 321 West 44th Street. Wow. Ask for Eddie Germano and Roy Cicalla. I walk in there and they hired me. Wow. Unbelievable.

How long did you work the record plant? Then I, that was where my career started, you know, because it was 1973 at that point. And I worked on the record plant until I came to California. I was an inch. I was a studio. I was a staff engineer. Six years. Yeah. Yeah. I was a staff engineer. And then I started producing at the record plant. How did you get trained as an engineer? Roy Cicalla. Roy Cicalla was the greatest engineer.

A career teacher, a very eccentric guy, so eccentric that he had like, we didn't know what it was. It was an LCD. We didn't know what an LCD was, right? He wouldn't like touch things that other people touched, you know, stuff like that, right? When he wanted to train you, you became his assistant. And it was like literally like boot camp. It was hard, right? But he liked me. So now I'm in the studio and he's teaching me. But because he doesn't want to touch everything, he would make me do it.

I see. He said, give me 2 dB at 10,000. Give me, which worked out great for you because you have all the hands on experience. Right. Amazing. Right. I'm learning how to be so lucky. Bizzale. Series of events that are like these magic. Right. Bless. And you're the man that felt to emerge. You know, my sister used to call me and felt to earth, rather. And so now I'm really learning because I've got to be, I'm 24 seven with this guy. This guy was the busiest engineer in New York City.

And you know, he's doing John Lennon. He's doing anybody who came to the record plant wanted him, right? So well, this other guy, Shelley Akas, you know, Jack Douglas was an engineer there. The guy who produced John Lennon and arrow Smith. Yeah. Guy who produced walked this way. Jack Douglas, right? So I see him still. He. And he put me on everything. And then one day he was going to California. No, first they brought me in because he had another assistant who something happened.

He ended up taking him off the project and he brought me in on mind games at the end. And that was September of 73. And this is after you basically, the reason you're doing this is because you see the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. Yeah. And now you're in the studio with John Lennon. That's right. That's right. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. I didn't think they were the same person. Yeah. It was just too much. It was too much. Yes, too much.

So, you know, I'm just like, how do I knock it thrown out of this room? Could I have been thrown out of a few rooms? You know, I'm sweaty Rick. How do I knock it thrown out of this room? Yes. And I just over do it. How do I just serve? Yes. You know, how do I just be of service? Yes. Right? Yeah. T. I learned how to make John Lennon's T. He wouldn't let anybody else make it. I timed it exactly. You know, like I was like the way I am about everything I was about that fucking T. Yeah.

You know, and so everything, the mics, the thing, you know, whatever Roy told me, you know, right now in the boxes doing it. You know, and then as time went on, Roy, like all of us, which I know you've done, I've done, we've all done it. It starts to get old a little bit and you just start handing off things to other people. So now right after that, this crazy thing happened with, with Lennon is Morris Levy, two John over, I believe it's come together and Chuck Berry can't catch me.

He said he ripped them off, right? So they made a settlement and Morris Levy said, I want you to do an album of my songs because he had the Morris Levy. Is that why he did those songs? Yeah. I didn't know that. No, nobody knows. The Rock and Roll album. Yeah. Yeah. He decides he wants to use Phil Specter, Phil Specter will come to New York. Roy says, I want you to come with me to California because you'll set the studio up for me. I want it to sound exactly like the record plan. I see.

I don't go there. I want you to turn it into the record plan. Yeah. And what was the studio in LA? And an M studio. A Wow. Right. This is a full circle story where you get to. Right. It is. Unbelievable. Yeah. And the first day, I've got to, I go to the studio. I get, I start tuning the speakers, right? Cause I learned how to do that. So. And so now I'm tuning the speakers to getting the sound like I know Roy likes him to sound. So I'm playing mind games.

Yeah. I'm playing some other records that I assisted on with him. He got eight. Was that your first time in California? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He put John put me at the Beverly Hills Hotel in a bungalow. Amazing. I just turned 20. Amazing. Right. I didn't know. I never been on a plane. Wow. Never been on a plane. Never been to a hotel. I was once to the host motel in Philadelphia with my mother. Yeah. But other than that. And you're still living at home with your mom at home. Oh, yeah.

This is amazing. Oh, yeah. No, in Brooklyn, in that house. Amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So now I'm in the studio. Okay. Now I got to go get the setup. So I got to go to Phil's house in the canyon. I never met him before. I never been to a big house. Yeah. I never, nothing, nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now there's a gate and there's a driveway. He lived on Ben and the canyon somewhere or somewhere around there.

So I go there and I go in the, the foyer and I said, I'm here to see Phil's back there. Who's that? But he's talking. I don't see him. He's talking from the upstairs. I said, I'm here. I'm here on behalf of John Lennon and Racer Culler. I need the setup for tomorrow. Okay. Eight musicians guitar based, three guitar. I said, eight musicians. I said, okay. Anything else? No. I leave. I go to A&M the next day and I'm setting up. I made it look like I'm telling you it was a painting.

Every cable wired. You couldn't trip if you wanted a trip. Every microphone. Every music stand. Every echo tuned. Every patch chord in. Every piece of equipment tape everywhere written down. I was nuts about getting this right. Right? So now I'm the first one in the studio. Two guys walk in. Four guys walk in. Three more guys walk in. Thirty six guys walk in. Musicians. Yes. We have for the full spec the session. Wow. I'm like, what?

Phil, which is how he records, went from when I left his house to the next morning, hired 36 musicians. Unbelievable. Eight guitar players, two drummers, how blame and Jim Kelton. Wow. Okay. Two bass players. Yeah. Six horns, three pianos, Leon Russell and Barry Mann. Wow. Playing the piano. Okay. Three background singers, Sher Harry Nielsen and I forgot who the other one was. Unbelievable. Right? So now I'm like, oh, fuck. So I got a rearrange. I said, give me an hour. I'll rearrange.

So I get some help from the studio, the kid that worked from the studio, etc. That's a lot of setting up. Oh, man. That's a big session. Oh, man. That's a lot. That's a lot. A lot of live. Live. How about 36 headphones? Yeah, yeah. How about bouncing the headphones with only two headphone buses? Impossible. You know, it's like. It's very, very difficult task. It's not 36 strings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's 36 musicians. Yeah, yeah. Banging. Yes. Right? So. Wow. Now Phil comes in.

And this one on every night. So he comes in. Now these guys. Everybody knows this story. I'm going to stand there yet or no. Yeah. Don't already there. Yeah, yeah. Now, no one. It wasn't there when the 36 guys came in. But I was in my job to tell him, me, where my job was, it's ready. Leisure craft. Builders of handmade custom sonas, hot tubs, and cold plunges. They're constructed from the finest cedar, pine, and maple woods. Farrell sonas are the most efficient sonas shape.

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It made really good with me. So they were always very kind to me. Roy was tough, but John was always really, really kind. So now Phil comes in. And first, he's got it on a white butcher's coat. Like a meat cutting butcher. A coat. And when everyone gets... So now the band starts playing. They're doing like Boni Moroni or something like that. One of those songs. And there's four tape machines. A quarter inch tape for slap. Because Phil liked a lot of slap. And John liked a lot of slap.

But when everyone gets up, we're at a stand-up console in Studio A. At the time, there was a stand-up console. We both had to run the console because there's too much for one guy. Of course. You don't have that many hands. You don't have that many hands. I mean, no such thing as automation or anything like that. For guitar players on one bus. We had no choice. We had to balance it from outside. We had to just move the mics in and out. It was real, real analog.

When everyone that are attention, he had a boat horn. The air horn, yeah. Those are loud. Unbelievably loud. So now you're scared. You don't know what the... I mean, if you're... It was horrible. Right? So now we're making the album. And then eventually, about a week and a half in. And then it comes in with the butcher coat. But now he's got guns strapped to him. Right? Got two guns strapped to the fucking chest. And again, I'm not scared because I'm too busy. Yeah. You're just working.

I'm not giving this job. But what did you talk to Phil at all? Yeah, I was too. What was he like? Like you see, there's a documentary out, which is exactly like he's like. There's a new documentary on Phil. He's like... His voice is high like mine. You know what I mean? It's like that kind of voice. And... You talk fast. He talks slow. Yeah, he's from Philly. You know what I mean? The Jewish guy. He seemed impatient. Yeah, he didn't know. Yeah. More echo. My dad's been there. Shares out there.

Hey, who are you? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Yelling at this guy. Shut up. No. Hey. Put Barry Man on the ground. Put Leon on the... On the... On the... On the... On the... On the road. Because that'll fuck with Leon's head. Just chaos. Chaos. Chaos. Chaos. Complete chaos. Yelling at people. Koen Shinn. And Kim and John got along good. Okay. He has the element. Yeah. Alcohol. Yeah. Galons of it. Yeah. There was a schmer and off bottle based about this big. And they just drink it.

Drink it the whole time. And this is not a secret. Both Phil and John. And everybody. Right. Everybody. This is an incredible story. No, it is. It's an incredible story. I can't believe I know you as long as I know you and I've never heard this story. Not a lot of people know this. This is an unbelievable story. So now he's yelling at everybody and it's crazy. And I'm just trying to get it on tape. Yeah. Right. And my boss, boss a very quiet, stoic kind of guy quiet.

And he's like, what is tough sitting there saying, give me this. Give me that. John's mic's not working. And I'm running. Like 100 miles an hour into the studio, changing the mic, fixing the mic. You know, you know, number seven guitar play in a mic's not working. Give me a new mic. Try, uh, but, uh, but, uh, but try something more directional. Right. And also the more people that are there, the more pressure there is because there's a lot of people waiting around for everything always.

Yeah. I'm like, I'm a water tea. Yeah. I'm like, yeah. You know, it's a lot. It's a, I'm just picturing how stressful it is for people who don't know the situation. It's, it's incredibly stressful. And everybody's talking. Yeah. At once. And they were all asking you for something. And the drummer's fucking around so you can't hear anything. You can't hear anything. Yeah. But the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the bass, you know.

So we record, I don't know, three weeks like that or something like that. Did it settle in at any point? No. No. No. Stay different. I had to go out and get the alcohol as well. So I had to borrow the identification because I was only 20 of the guy at the front desk to go buy the alcohol. There was an alcohol. There was a liquor store on the corner. So we had a guy helping me from A&M, but it was as far as Roy was concerned. Yeah. And John, it was on me.

Yes. Remember, I'm only there six months at the record plant. Yeah. You know, so now, now Phil, this is even crazier. So Phil, one night, and this is in a book that just came out, the Tony King book. I don't know if you know Tony King. I don't know Tony King. He was the president of Apple. Cool. And so now everybody's really drunk. He's very, it's very, everybody knows that during this period of time was called the last weekend for John that he got you know, join us.

And how, just like, have an idea how long of the sessions every day? I don't really remember, but you know, we started, I get there at noon and they go to like 11 or 12, you know. So you have a 12 hour hard. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so now Phil goes crazy. I used to drive John home and then this one night, Phil wanted to drive from home with his bodyguard. And a book just came out and you can read about this. John was drunk and he tied him up, right?

So now the album falls apart, right? And John did not take kindly to being tied up. No, yeah, did it. Neither did anybody around them. You know, and. And it was a nightmare. Up until that time, what was the relationship between Phil and John like producer artist? Yeah, but did did was John was going along with all of Phil's craziness. It's just cool. Yeah, John was experienced. He was already a beetle. John was into the everybody was in that moment and in that mindset. Yeah, it was out there.

Yeah, it was really out there, right? So John was amazing. I got to tell you man, there was one day he wasn't splendid to me. Not one. I did a lot of shit with him. I did the salute to salute grade. You know, I did that TV show with him. I did three albums with him. Wow. You know, so you know, three albums. There's people on the stand. Even people that are listening to this. You live with them. You're sitting next to the guy for three albums, you know, 200 days or whatever it is.

You know, no more than that. It was two years. You know, so, you know, he was drinking at the time, you know, and it's no secret. It's an every book in the world. So now, and this is when he's not with Yoko, is that correct? Right. But before that, before that, I forgot this, before that, Phil went to the bathroom and shot the place up. Right? During the session, right? Wild. Yeah. Oh, another thing that you would be interested in. During the session, David Geffen is going out with share. Right?

Yeah. So David walks in. Now, I know this is David Geffen, right? Yeah. And A&M, David's leaning against the wall, Phil's behind me. And I'm at the headphone console, which is right near the door. Right? So, when people on the stand are recording, I'm in a recording studio right now. This is not a big room. You know what I mean? And the room was not that much bigger than this. So David comes in and he starts yelling, you dad out of David. So David says something very Davidish.

This is Phil is yelling at David. Yeah. And David, very David, says something sarcastic to him. Like, I don't know about you, but right now I have number three, four, five, seven, eight. Yeah. So, something like that. It just pisses him off. And. And at this point in time, is David have asylum? Is this asylum days? No, no, 73. Yeah. Or whatever it was. Yeah. A asylum is big label. Whatever 73 was. Yeah. He was very successful. Yes, yes, yes. So Phil goes after him.

And then all of a sudden Phil physically goes into a karate stance. I'm like, holy shit. These people do this too. You know what I mean? I've seen fights and we had shit growing up. But I didn't know. Yeah. And people that everybody's crazy turns out everybody's crazy. That's exactly right. So now we get thrown out of the studio. Phil, oh, I left one thing out. So 73, you know, I don't know about you, when you're, this is 50 years ago. Yeah. So some of the stuff blends together. Of course.

So Phil calls me up one day and says, um, we're canceling the studio. I said, why are we canceling the studio, Phil? I said, every, every older musician is a coming. Do you hear this? I don't hear anything. He goes, this helicopter's over my house. They think I've got the water gate tapes. I don't even know what the water tapes are. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm in. But he's completely paranoid. I'm in his own, right? So it was like stuff like that going on all the time, right?

Unbelievable. But anyway, so all the things run together. But all I can say is that John was magnificent to me every day. Every day was the greatest guy wanted to teach me. He and Roy taught me together. Like during walls and bridges, Roy's wife had a baby. So he took off six weeks and left me alone with John. And I did all the overdubs on the album. Incredible. Right? So now, you know, I was 21 at this point, not 20, 21 at this point.

And I'm just like, what a way to learn is to really, because it's set. I didn't know. I didn't have great taste in music when I was a kid. You know, like I wasn't the first guy to have the stones record. I wasn't the first guy to hear cream. Like my friend Ali played me cream. You know, I was always a little behind. But I really learned. Ever since those sessions, it's how I made records until I quit making records with the live vocal. So I had to feel the vocal. So John sang live all the time.

So I would just wait. We would wait till he got the vocal. And not to be 100% finished vocal. But the feel was based on the vocal. So everybody's playing off of the vocal. That's right. And you don't get to take until it's right. Right? So I recorded like that my entire life. But those six weeks with those six weeks with John, I got really lucky. But I was a little terrified during those sessions. We would ever get you through the night, which is a really fun song.

It was a single from the album. And Elton at the time was bigger than you were still. You know what I mean? He was, I was 1974. So he had like three number one hour that year. Some crazy stuff. And Tony King again brought him to the session. And Elton was going to sing on the session. So, so he sings on this. He comes in and I'm terrified. And John says to me, I said, John, Elton John's coming to the studio. Okay. I said, I'm really nervous. He said, trust me. He's more nervous than you.

I'm a beetle. Yeah. And then he told me the story about, and I hope I have the song, the song, right? He said I was recording with Eric or somebody, right? Yeah. Did Eric play on cold turkey? I don't know. I don't know. But one of those songs and the guy who froze up. Eric froze up. One of the great classic Jeff, one of those guys froze up. And John said, I told them, play you bastard because he was nervous because he's in the room with me because he doesn't understand.

And 1973. Yes. Again, remember the, I told you it's hard to explain the big bang of 64 of the beetles. Being around the beetles in 1970 to 74. Yes. There was nothing like it. I don't know. I've never met a celebrity since. Never. There's nothing like that. There's never been anything like that. No. Those four guys right after the beetles broke, even during, I didn't know them during the beetles. But people froze. Fraud, musicians froze. Of course.

So now we recording the vocals I'm saying to myself, I never really recorded in a piano without Roy. My boss. I hope he doesn't want to play the fucking piano. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting though. Interesting. Problem. Right. So now they're facing each other with these two really dynamic microphones singing. And you've heard the record you hear, they didn't high pitch the other on a really hot dynamic mic. And I hear Elton say, let me try piano. I'm like, oh, fuck. I'm a little son of a bitch.

So I had to remember how I set it up for Roy and I just did that. Yeah. And show you a kind of guy John was. So Elton walks in and he says, hey, great piano sound. John says, that's why we use him. He's fucking around. You know, because he knew I was nervous, you know. But he would just give me a shot on anything and everything. I don't understand it. I don't understand until today. It isn't because I was talented because he liked me.

Yeah. And he felt he could trust me because he told me that once. He said, you know, working with me, people are going to ask you to get to me. And I can tell you're the kind of kid that won't. And I learned. Yeah. He said, oh, I'm protective of him, of course. Well, I didn't know that. Yeah. But I got it. Yeah. I learned. And you know, what I'm trying to say is that whatever kids are out there trying to do stuff, don't be embarrassed of what you don't know.

Yeah. And it's not because it's charming. Yeah. And it's open and it's honest. Absolutely. And the people around you would rather hear you don't know or say you do know and blow something up. Absolutely. You know, so I've always been like that. I always tell everybody, we're getting to this. Like I said, man, 1991, I had no idea what fucking hip-hop was. I wasn't Russell Simmons. I wasn't Rick Rubin. I landed on it.

I didn't, I said, but the only thing that I saw in hip-hop was the whole world should hear this. And I have a record company. And I'm going to spend the fucking money to let everybody hear this because when I went to sign a death row, Doug called me. He said, look, my entire black music department here says, you're paying so much money. This stuff doesn't, first of all, it doesn't sell more than what the easy album said.

It's impossible and it doesn't travel outside of America and you're going to get killed. I said, I got to tell you, Doug, I don't believe any of these three things. I said, as a producer, I had nothing but I had massive hits in Europe and outside of America as a producer. Matter of fact, you're paying groups like Dio Strachan, Simple Mind, just to hire me because they, I understood for some reason. I don't know what the fuck it is, you know what I mean? But it worked.

Right, I was good with those groups. So I said, I don't agree with any, I said, they're going to be dancing to this in China. No, I had no idea. I'm telling you, man, I said this before. It reminded me of Rolling Stones. It was like Mick and Keith. I said, I know these guys are. They scared a fuck out of you. You go in here, but the music, you love the music so much that you're going closer. And it was dangerous music. There's always been popular.

Right? But when you add black to it, it does another thing. That's what's wrong with the world, especially America. But that didn't, I wasn't one of those guys. So I didn't get it. So I remember with Drain, when Drain shook, first came in. It was, but anyway, he would go back there with the chronological ship with anyway. It doesn't have to be. We could jump around and have real life. But I remember when they came in, they had an album finished.

Was straight out of Compton already out as an independent record? Oh, yeah. No, they were on ruthless. This is when Shug got that quote, got Dre off of ruthless records. I see. Okay. Yeah. Got him off of ruthless records. And they were being sued by, when I made that deal for them, they were being sued by Sony, Ruthless, Brian Turner, and a guy named Michael Harris, who attempted murder on his cousin or something. I don't know if I have it, sorry, I don't have, I've had it wrong.

But he was in jail for life, Trump pardoned him recently. Right. I'm just saying that there's a guy, I hear he's a good guy. He's not, but he was suing that throw as well. So I had to settle all four of those cases with the people. Yeah. So I said, man, fuck that. I believe in these guys. John McClain brought him in. Tell me this was it. I'm good at listening to people. How long did you know John McClain? I know from A&M. Cool. We did a mix together on YouTube.

Nice. The Hollywood remix of a desire. Nice. Wonderful. I mean, just incredible. You make many records for A&M. No, I was just at the studio. Never worked out. Oh, so you made him at the studio. I understand. I just built the studio with this guy, Shelley. Yes, yes. Yeah. So now we go and settle out those lawsuits. And let's talk more about what you saw. So you saw the easy re-e record came out first. Then straight out of Compton came out. Yeah. Those records were blowing up.

I mean, we're, I know my, my interest in hip hop at that time was at a low point until I heard those. That was like, oh. Well, I didn't, I didn't get that either. The first time I, I understood anything about hip hop is Bonobro at Leor, Cohen and Chuck D to A&M studios because they were going to open up for you too. Yes. So I invited them to my house in Malibu, right? Nice. And I still listen to them talk and I was understanding it, but I still didn't get it. Yeah. I'll be honest with you.

I didn't. I was producing you too. Of course. I wasn't, I wasn't paying attention, right? And I wanted to get out of producing. And you were all so busy that you, your plate was full somewhere else. Yeah. And I was producing, I was doing stuff, the stuff, right? And I was doing the Christmas album. It was very special Christmas. So now it's 1990 or 91. Let's talk about starting the label because that's a big story. Well, what happened to me was I was producing and I was burnt on it. I knew it.

I was 18 years and I was burnt. And I just said, I had a kid, 1988, I had my son, Jamie. And even though they didn't ask me to do it, they told me they were going to Germany to Berlin to do that next album. And Berlin, the wall had just come down. I know it's freezing there. I'm like, oh man, I gotta, I gotta go to Berlin for this guy. Because remember, they just almost killed me on the last album. On Rattlenum. I was like, these fucking, it's like four on one. And it's a maddening process.

Maddening, right? So we're doing two albums, a live album, a studio album, and a movie. So I just was fried. I said, I'm not doing this. I got an N, something else happened. Because I don't want to sound altruistic. I want to sound old phony, Geffen sold his company. Oh yeah. So I was like, wait a minute. I think he does what I do. Yes. He just made all this fucking money, right? And then I said, I'm also not getting, I'm not going to be getting the young groups.

You know, when you get to a sub-relem. The labels don't give you the, they think you're going to be too expensive. And you know, in those days, that's what it was like. The label was to try to avoid you, get you there, group on the third album, right? When they knew a little bit more. So I said to David, hey, I want to start a record company. You should do it. There are a lot of record people a lot dumber than you. That's inspiring. Right? I said, I believe that, right?

And you got to, you also dealt with a lot of record people over the years, even as a producer. Yeah, but when he said it, I'm always a fan of David. And he was always been great to me. So when he said it, I said, First time you met him was when he was in the room with Phil? I didn't meet him. You just saw him. Yeah. That's the first time you're in his presence. Yeah. The first time I met him was 1980. John Landau set up lunch for me at La Don. At your request. No, John's request.

John said you should meet this guy. So they were starting Gaffin Records. You should meet this guy. He said you should meet this guy. He's a great producer. I see. That's what John said. So I met David. And we had a very nice lunch. Then we became friends. Yeah. Right? And he just constantly stayed in my life. And it helped me. So when he sold his company, I'm like, Man, I introduced me to Ted Field. Right? David introduced you to Ted Field? David talked to Ted first.

And Ted said, I want somebody to run a record company. And he rose and blasts that I think Jimmy could do this for you. I hear he wants to start a record company. Because I was going to start a record company and go through David. Yeah. Originally though you were going to do with Irving. And then Irving. Yes. I remember. That's right. That's right. And then I think Motin wanted me on the game, on Irving's deal. Wow. I think Mot just felt, you didn't see it. You know, whatever. Right?

So I went to Dave and he said, well, it's Guy Ted Field. And he's looking to start a label, right? And I meet Ted, Paul McGinnis. You know, things come together. Paul McGinnis also met Ted. I mentioned it. Right? So this guy told me to meet Triadis. Everybody kind of supportive. But David was the guy that, like he does, focused. Yeah. And I went to him and then I said, David, you know, Doug wants to put up half the money. And David said, do what's right for you. I just sold my company.

I don't give a shit. Do what's right for you. Yes. And I took the money from Doug. Yeah. Because then it made it easy for Ted. I don't want to be reliant on one person for the money. You know, that's never safe. Of course. Right. So we did it. You know, remember you calling me and he said, and I can't remember it was a million or a billion, but he said, it must have been billion. I just signed, I just signed a billionaire. Right, right.

Well, Fowlani wasn't, but anyway, but that's whatever it was. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe he was. Who knows? He had a lot of, but I remember, I would definitely say that. You did. I'm telling you, I was there. I'm absolutely. It was fun. It was, I remember because it was so funny. Yeah. I would definitely say. Yeah. But, um, and I got my first deal. It's not a record company and then we started in a scope. And John McClaim was with Ted and Tom Wiley.

And John McClaim walked in and he said, this is the guy. Who's the first bandie sign? What were the first group of artists? The first thing we signed, the first thing was Gerardo Rico Suave. Yeah. And you ever hit out of the box? I wanted a hit. Yeah. I didn't give a fuck if it was the cha cha cha. Yeah. I wanted my promotion team to have a hit. Yes. And it worked. Yes. Then Tom Wiley brought in Primus and Helmet. Great. Who were great. Yeah. Then we got two Pock and then we got no doubt.

How did two Pock come in? Through Tom. Wow. Tom was a great A&H. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So was John. Yeah. So I wasn't in the record business. So I didn't know anybody. But they would bring me in. Yeah. And I would get them out of their deals and I would figure it all out. Yeah. Like this guy that used to do PA for loan was Manit, loaned Justice with me brought Gwen in. I hired him at Innesco. And I went down to No Dowsary, Herzl and I said, these guys are great. I saw her. And they were huge.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're saying, you know, you remember those days, right? Yeah, absolutely. So, Dre, you know, Dre and Shud just came to my office and John said, play it. They played me the chronic. And I remember the time because they were friends of yours. I remember I tried to listen to Hank Shockley records.

And you know, if you're an engineer in music and rock and roll and you're trying to get everything to be really present and really powerful and the songs and the whole, you know, the whole subwoof, the whole, they didn't have the 808 on the control. I said. And then all of a sudden Dre walks in and it sounds like Pink Floyd. Yeah. It's one of the greatest recordings I'd ever heard. Any kind of music. Yes. So now I feel like I know something about this.

Yeah, because Dre's music is not sloppy in any way. It's not like anybody else's. No. And then, and also I don't understand samples. Yeah. I mean, everybody's playing live. Got a few things in there. Yeah. The bass and drums are players, right? Yeah. So I'm like, who produced this? He said me. I said, but who engineered it? He said me. I'll never forget it. I said, this guy will be fine in his coat. Yeah. And that was it that day.

As soon as I heard that on my Tanois that I mixed all the albums on. Yes. That was in my office. Yes. I brought them in London. Yeah. I was doing an album with the motors in England. And I heard these speakers. I went to the factory. I saw them. I bought them. I knew those speakers. And I just, I said, I got to get this. And I said to Shurgen Dre give me three weeks. Now, if you guys fuck around and go to a lot of different labels, I'm going to hear about it. And I'm going to bounce.

I'll tell you what. They kept their word. And I did. And we settled with Michael Harris, Jerry Haller, Sony. I mean, they were a Rico case on these guys. And Brian Turner, priority. I settled with everybody. They were all very happy. I wrote checks. Right. And that was it. And then we put the record down. Then the rest is, you know, tell me about Doug. Your relationship with Doug. When do you first meet Doug? Stevie Nicks. Because she was on Atlantic.

She was on Atlantic. And Doug was already running Atlantic. Or Ahmed was still there. No, he was the head of Atco. Doug was the head of Atco. And Ahmed was still running Atlantic. Atco was a associated label. So they brought in modern records. Danny Goldberg and Paul Fishkin. And they went to Doug. I see. And Danny and Paul and Doug. They asked me to go meet Doug. Because they wanted me to produce Steve E's album. They said he wanted to meet the guy that I was going to produce the album.

And I had just done Demetra Pedos. And Stevie loved Demetra Pedos. She loved Tom Petty. And you'd never worked with Stevie before this? No. No. Fleetwood Mac was like this giant supersonic California. I didn't even know they were English. You know what I mean? Just. I just knew it as out of my range. Yes. You know, background harmonies. You know what I mean? Huge. It was like. Huge. What is that? Right? So I go to meet her and I get the gig. Right?

We're going to finishing up Tom and I was going to start her. Then we ended up doing hot promises first. And it's funny because we share Tom, you and I, you know. And you got him first. What? You had him first. Unfortunately, I'm 10 years older than you. Yeah. I mean, do a lot of things first. You know, everything. Everything we're talking about you did first. I'll say, you know, I'll birthdays are a day apart. Ten years apart, right? You know, so I meet Stevie.

And you know, again, I'm that guy from Brooklyn. I'm working in New York. I just got out the California. Let me tell you about recording studios. I remember that Elliott Shiner. I remember that throwback in that story where he had the girl. You know, meet girls in the recording studio. You know what I mean? You just don't. It's like. It's not studio 54. It's record plan studio. Right? Everybody's there to work. And it's your focus.

So girls are like some other thing that maybe I could figure that out someday. Yeah. It wasn't going to happen where you were working. It wasn't going to happen anyway. I was 26 years old. You know, I had a, I remember girlfriends growing up and stuff. But yeah, a few girlfriends here and there. It was, I was just trying to learn how to make records, right? And you were very driven. It sounds like you were very, very driven. I was very driven till the day I retired.

Yeah. And that's why I retired. I didn't want to be driven anymore. Yeah. And it was a conscious thing. Nice. So now I start going out with Stevie. How does that happen? I don't know. I'd have to ask her. Now Stevie moves into my house. And I'm producing Tom. And you know, Tom, he don't want to hear that your attention is someplace else. Ever about anything? Anything, ever. So I'm like, I had a house in Sherman, oh, because he was coming over one day.

I said, look, Stevie, and it was an upside down. I see you got a high in the basement. I said, look, just stay down there. You know, you have tea and toast. And you know, and Tom came over and she was hiding in the basement. And then she's here as us playing. You know, and she always talks about it. She had her ear to the door. And you know, and so, but you know, I, I was very clumsy. You know, and I didn't, I didn't know how to do anything socially, anything.

So incompetent outside of recording studio. I only felt safe in a recording studio. I don't know if you know that feeling. You must. I only felt like I was in water as a fish in the control room. Outside of that, I was flopping around. You know, so, you know, that one I did, Bella Donna, which was turned out to be an incredible album. That was the first album. You know, Patty Smith had a band. We're going to that, but Patty Smith, you know, how did we did Easter, right? But she had a band.

So, you know, we haven't banned a lot of the arrangements come built in. New work on stuff, but the arrangements are pretty much how they play. How they play, right? Stevie was a particular little challenge. I think you'd be interested in this. It was a real challenge. The reason why it was the challenge is she's coming out of Fleetwood Mac. It's like coming out of the Beatles or the Rolling Stones. And they have three incredible singers and three incredible writers.

I had friends of mine say to me, I think you make a mistake. I'm not sure she can sing a whole album. Yeah. Because she never did before. Right. Well, you know, that on the whole album, but was never the focus. And that was the first time I realized that conventional wisdom leads to conceptual blinds. Yes. Okay. So the conventional wisdom was she sang three songs. Yes. Now, she doesn't have a band. She has these two girls singers that were her best friends.

And I got to go create a sound for her. Because she's very simple writer on the piano. Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. You know, but that voice and the melodies and the words are just unbelievable. And I still feel responsible to help put a sound together. But I came from bands. I didn't want to put a sound together like Linda Roddstad. You know what I mean? Or those LA records that were great records, but they weren't the stones. It wasn't Tom Petty. It wasn't Patty Smith. It was.

It sounded like a bad play. They had to get to play it. It only sounds like the guy in Campbell or only sounds like Keith or only say, you know, Bruce's band. It sounds like the wrecking crew. Right. Roy Bitten. Right? They're not on every record. So you wanted the band to have personality too. Right. So what I did was I felt was a giant leap for me intellectually. I went out and I got guys from every band. So I got Roy Bitten from the East Street band. I got Ben Montenegg from the Hotbreakers.

I got Don Felder and Davey Johnston from the Eagles in Elton John. And I brought in Linda's drum crew, Keltner and Bob Glob. Incredible. Right? And what do you want to tell? Incredible. Right. So I had three guitar players, two keyboard players. Davey Johnston. I only wanted to play that 12 string guitar. If you ever heard him play that, if he's ever around, I think he's still around. And you got to do a record, nothing sounds like Davey Johnston on a 12 string guitar.

Nothing. So you put Roy Bitten, Ben Montenegg and Davey Johnston. Now you've got an orchestra. Those three guys sound like nothing else together that anyone's ever heard. And every one of them is as unique sounding as any of the great rock and roll band musicians in the world. So that gelled like crazy. And then we were able to make that record. So if you listen to a song like Edges 17, now Stevie wrote that over a police song. It doesn't begin of loops.

So she made a 16-bar loop of a police song, bring on the night or something like that. And she sang. The white winged up section was the 16 minutes in. So we had to spend three days playing it and piecing it together. And if you listen to it, the bass drum and the verse, because the police played like reggae kind of feel. So there was the bass drummers on the end. Yeah. And the way I used to record, I would stand in the middle of the room, not the control room in the studio. In the live room.

Yeah, it had phones on. Because I wanted to work with the band. So I don't know, that was the first album that I actually was a gigantic part of the arrangement, because I had to be. Yeah, yeah, because it wasn't a self-contained thing. Right. And it built it. But I didn't want to make a studio album with her. Understood. It was so clear in my mind not to do that. Yeah. So cool. It was just a good idea, right? Absolutely. I know. That's what always comes down to. It's like it's a good idea.

You don't even know where it comes from. It's like the inclination. And you don't know how to do it. No. So I just figured, I'm going to go to the horses that got me here, Roy Bitten, Ben Monde. I love David Johnson and Rita play with Elton. Rita's Ben Monde. Forget it. It's unbelievable. He's pure soul. He's pure soul. He lives with two of my damn little torpedoes. Because that's an interesting thing I'll tell you, because you produced that band.

So when I was making Born and Run and I'm mixing it. Remember, none of us knew how to make a record. Me, John Landau, or Bruce, but I had to mix it. I never mixed an album before. So now I thought when you mix an album that you have to hear every instrument. So if you get a chance, listen to Born and Run and you realize how complex those arrangements are, those chord changes, those bands playing a million different parts. Yeah. Well, I just sat there until you could hear every instrument.

But whenever I got, I get bored really quick. I think most record producers and DJs, like a DJ gets bored because he's looking at the audience and he's bored before their boards, we change the song. Everybody goes, oh, I'm so glad he changed the song. It's just that he was bored five seconds before you. And that's the way I am mixing. If I'm mixing a record, I got to do something. But again, I quit producing when digital came out because I liked analog mixing.

I only could do it if I'm pushing everything up around myself. So whenever I got in trouble, I'm born and run, I'd go to Roy Benton and I had no sh every time you go to him, you push the goddamn thing up and he's doing something. Something good happens. Something great. He's never not playing something great. So when I went to the hot breakers, I pushed Ben Monop. If you listen to that album, that organ is loud. I'm going to listen to the album with this in mind.

Yeah. That's a great way to listen to it. Yeah. Now it's loud. And you know what else is loud? Because I used to argue with Stan, the drummer a lot. But to me, he places on the back end of the beat. And it would always drive me crazy because I was hearing Tom's album. I was trying to make walls and bridges. So I was thinking of drums like Max and Keltner. And this drum was like a loping kind of thing and he used to drive me crazy.

And the guy who saved the day to me and probably didn't save the day for the world or Tom Patty. But say we're mixing the album and Jim Keltner is working next door. We're mixing the album at Cherokee. Stix is at it and he goes, you know, no, me from John Lennon, right? Yeah. Hey Jim, how you doing? I said, Jim, I'm doing great. He goes, he has a film can in his hand, a little film can. And he goes, listen. This is what this, and it's refugee. He says, this is what this song needs.

I said, would you go play it now? And he went, I'm played it and I said, put all the other songs up. We put the fucking shaker on everything. It just glued everything together. When you hear the album, the fucking shaker is so loud. Yeah. It's like, it made Stan work to me. So great. Now Stan is incredible. The sound of the drums is unbelievable.

But so now we're doing an album and, you know, I, I'm always tell this story because, you know, it's important to show things you got wrong, as well as things you got right. Of course. So we're doing Bella Donna and I feel even though we had at your 17, but I didn't know what at your 17 was. I realized now 40 years later that it's everybody's favorite, one of those TV's favorite songs that people done. Yeah. I don't know how you feel about that, but it's really, it's incredible.

Like Trent Resner loves that song, you know, people that I never knew likes the, yeah. So Tom had a song which just stopped dragging my heart around that we weren't going to use because it was like a blue song. And remember, my mind with Tom was making hits. Yeah. That's what I thought we did. Because I consider music, you could have a credible song, a moody credible song, you could have a hit song. But when you put them together, that's what you really want.

It's my life by the animals satisfaction by the rolling stones, like my fire by the doors, you know, we got to get out of this place, the animals, you know, Foxy lady. I want those records that come together and our mass appeal, but also give me the real deal. The sympathy for the devil. Absolutely. Right. Yeah. So Tom's singing stopped dragging, wasn't a hit. So I said, let's give it a see because I just done this with Bruce with Patty Smith and because the night.

And what a great song because the night is. Yeah. That's a great. I want to use it. It's a great song. The record is spectacular. It's the first record I ever produced. That's incredible. Yeah. Beautiful one. Yeah. The drums on that were something that Shelley and I, we just started working together. And that was the first thing we did. And because he was an engineer at the studio and so was I, but I became a producer, but I wanted to have an engineer. Yeah. Because I could be free.

Yeah. And that was the first and we started mixing it at midnight till 10 in the morning. It's incredible. And she sings it great. She owns the song. You know, and I don't know why, but I just heard her on that song. Yeah. Not an obvious fit. No. No. Well, Bruce, Bruce wasn't, Bruce wasn't using it. It was thrown away. I said to him, you're throwing the song away. He says, absolutely. Yeah. But Bruce throws away a lot of songs. Yeah. He writes all that.

And if they're not playing it for a while, they're gonna get into the fire. They're going to the fire at the same time and gave them both away. They want to rob it Johnson. Incredible. You know, but, um, although, you know, something that we talk about him because that's where I learned a real work ethic with Springsteen. I learned that you don't stop until you get it. You know, Bruce said something brilliant. Said many things brilliant. But he said, I didn't want to be rich.

I didn't want to be famous. I didn't even want to be happy. I wanted to be great. And that's what he's like. And in those two years at that time, he was broke. And we were all struggling. And he just kept us all there. I remember one night we're mixing and she's the one. And you know what happens? My ears clogged up. But we only had nine days to mix eight songs. So I couldn't stop. Because yeah, remember he was getting dropped from Sony. I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't know any of this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But let's say we'll talk about Bruce B. Yeah, okay. Okay. That's unbelievable. Yeah. Anyway, so Tom, so I gave, we got on the song. He sang on it. And then I didn't know how it worked. And it landed, dropped the record right on top of his record. So basically, the waiting, steveys record steps on the waiting. That's right. That's unbelievable. That's bad luck. I think it was just the way that that's the way the cards went. I think the label got hungry, wanted to have a hit.

And those days, nobody gave a fuck. They hated the other labels. You know what I mean? It's how it gave a fuck. Yeah, big time. And I felt responsible. You know what I mean? And you know, I always felt because we were related. We were related. And you know, as years went on, I always thought, you know, I should have protected him somehow. Yeah. But I didn't even know you could do that. No. And but yet, you know, it's like saying somebody ahead of their time. I never want to hear that.

I said, Jimmy, you were ahead of your time. No, I wasn't. I just didn't get it right. You know what I mean? I don't care that I had the idea before anybody else. I get that I didn't do it. You know? So I felt that I should have done something different to make the result come out different. Although when I go back, it wasn't in your control. That's a part of it. But you know something, Rick, there was something I was when I was younger that I got on the control.

And I really have it on control as I get older. I was too hungry. And you make those kinds of mistakes when you're too hungry. You just, you push it. Yeah. Short, short-sighted. Yeah. And you really, yeah. I felt I made a great record. But although the waiting is one of Tom's best songs. Absolutely. But there was something about it that wasn't as commercial as refugee. Do I know why? No. No. You never know. No. Oh, I knew as I played it for somebody I really respected before it came out.

I played it for Richard Perry. Yeah. And he said, this is not as big as the last album. I was devastated. Yeah. Because I wore the same jeans as the last album. I fucking knew. You were into stuff like that. To a point of psychosis. Wow. I just did every studio, same assistant and everything. Had to be exactly the same because I wanted it. The same results. Yeah. And you don't know what it is. Maybe it's the lucky pants. Right. It could be, right? It could be. No. It could be anything.

And that was something that you could control. The pants. That's exactly right. That's the beauty of it. I know if I do everything that I could possibly do, it's certainly not going to hurt my ass. That's right. And I felt he wrote the songs which he did. Yes. But there's something about, I don't know, maybe you've done ours with somebody where the follow up just didn't match up or something and you felt you had it but the world thought you didn't.

Yeah. Also, sometimes it's the, the way the artist is. I had the experience with Tom. You know, I made great albums with Tom and I made less great albums with Tom too. He's on where he was at. And yeah, do you know, it's like, I know. Not everyone is great all the time forever. Yeah. And you don't stop. But the magic of a record is so fucking complex that no one gets it. People who use music as like chewing gum, especially now, they have no idea where it comes somehow.

You know, if you made a classic movie, people dissect it and they don't dissect records. They just take it. Okay. Next. And I don't know. I always thought that kind of always felt like I learned a lesson there and I became it was out of it was not in your control. I mean, you feel bad and you wish there was something you could have done because hot promises were so important to me. Yeah. Did Tom call you or talk about it? What Tom said one day, which really got to me. So I'm on the road.

And three months in, he says they're asking me to sign them to repeat us. I mean, so millions of albums and everything. But it didn't matter. The waiting and woman and love weren't big hit records. I remember going to the record store that I remember the childhood record store that I went to called TSS Times Square Store, which was a big box store that sold everything, but there was a record department. That's the record.

That was my record department growing up on Long Island where I went to buy records. And I remember seeing the cover of Damn the Torpedoes. Every time I went to the record store, it was always there was this back wall where they put like the important records. There were stacks of records everywhere. But on the back wall where you could see the covers, then the port torpedoes was always there. Now we're getting to close again. I bought them that sport jacket. Wow. Wow. Good look. It was great.

Right. It worked out. It was a great look. I think hard promises had a cool cover too. Yeah. Yeah. It was in a record store. I think Tom Petty record. I think I told this was before. Play Rebels. It is an incredible, incredible record. Do you ever listen to Rebels? I'm sure of this because it has Southern accent on it. Yeah. Of course. You hear the Johnny Cash version of Southern accent? Of course. John Rick Rubin. I listen to every song you do with Johnny Cash over the last two weeks.

I just pulled up fucking Danny Boy. Yeah. Okay. I listen to every fucking song. I mean, my wife wants to kill me. She loves Johnny Cash. But she just, you know, enough. Yeah. I just play it constantly. And there's some of them are really sad. It's heavy. Like, those albums can make me cry. I think they have to go back and they should go back on the Grammys and give albums we missed. Wow. That's a good idea. I feel like the Grammys are obsolete. I know that. But how is what's his name? Harvey.

He's trying to do better. They are obsolete. You know what I mean? Every album I just mentioned didn't win Grammys. Didn't win a Grammy. You know what I mean? And all but a run. You know, the albums are pitos. None of them got belt down. None of them got grap. Yeah. It's always a disconnect between what's popular and then what's critically, you know, like two, they're almost like two different. It's what's conventional wisdom. They want to go with what they know.

Yeah. And if you're doing something a little ahead of the time and the best ones is no point reference. It's revolutionary. Right. That's exactly right. I mean, it luts up when Ford didn't get out of the air. Amazing. It's amazing, right? It's amazing. Yeah. I don't fucking know anything else. You can stop right there. You think it's possible for people to care about music in the same way, considering the fact that it's going by the way it's going by. Do you know what I'm saying?

Like since the streaming revolution, our relationship to music has changed. But even the things we love, there's still things on this conveyor belt that are going by all the time. Well, there's the problem, one of the big problems. I've done a lot of thinking about this because I had a streaming service, I had a regular company, right? And I studied popular culture. That's what I do. I try to impact popular culture whenever I count or be part of something that's impacting popular culture.

So what's happening now is kids have so much video games like this. So much shit, including themselves. Yeah. So not only do they have their schoolwork, but they're trying to get likes and looking at their friends like you can't do that while listening to music. So if you said that. No, while really listening to music the way we listen to music. Yeah. So take a kid and you say, you know what? You miss your homework. I'm take you're only allowed two apps.

One of them's not a streaming music service. YouTube, TikTok, music is fifth. It's not the thing. And now all of a sudden what happened Rick is that fame is replaced great as a currency. When you were growing up, great was the currency. Even if you were a pop band, you were trying to be better than the other pop band. Now it's you want to be more famous and you want to because that you don't have to repeat great.

Instagram is going to keep you around and keep you making money, whether you make a great album for your second album or not. You see it all the time. There are artists out there that have just average albums after they come out and they're bigger. They get television shows. They get on these, you know, the voice or this or that doesn't matter anymore because fame has replaced great in my opinion. No, it's interesting. It's interesting. It's a famous currency. It's currency. That's the currency.

It used to be, you had to be great to be famous or have a hit or something. You don't have to have hit to be famous. Not even a little bit. Not even. You don't have to do anything. Right. So that's when you ask me, the people go, so listen, I think the answer to that is unless someone figures out a hurricane way of reintroducing music, which somebody will, to make it, you know, hip-hop's 50 years old. Yeah. Unbelievable. You know what I mean? Hip-hop is 50 years old. Right.

So you need another something. Yeah. Right. Hip-hop was the last big movement. Yeah. I guess so. Yeah. It was after punk. Yeah. It was after disco. Yeah. It was after, never quite got as big as hip-hop. No. No. It didn't change the way people dress, EDM. You know, punk changed that rock and roll and disco, EDM, you know, that means popular. Amazing. The impact this go had because it was a short window. It was only a couple of years of disco because it burned. It was great. It burned. It burned.

Yeah. Because it was got too big too fast. It's just too much. And it's that same style. It's just burned. This maybe that could have happened to hip-hop too, but hip-hop keeps reinventing itself. Yeah. Oh no, disco didn't. But you know, guys like us go back and listen to side-to-side and I feel that fucking album. That the Bee Gees, they were unbelievable. Unbelievable. What record makers? Unbelievable. And they were scorned. Yeah. They were scorned. I interviewed Barry Gibb. It was great.

He was so interesting. I bet. So cool. So smart. I bet. Yeah. You know, the other guy is really good. You know him well. It's Jeff Lin. Yeah. Unbelievable talent. Unbelievable. I thought when I heard him put those backing vocals on free fallen, it was one of those, why didn't I think of that moment? You know, I said, oh, fuck. He put EO lows vocals on Tom Petty and it worked. Yeah. And the songs were so good on the album. I mixed evil women. Every song. Every song in that album was great.

Yes. The album with free fallen. It was funny. Tom did his three best albums with three different producers. Raw flowers, full moon, full moon for you. Yeah. And then it's our pitos. Yeah. And in each case, it was the first album. Yeah. I always felt like when I worked with Tom the first time, he really wanted to show me how good he was. Yeah. And after that, I don't think he cared. He cared about making the best stuff.

You know, you cared about making it as good as he could and doing what he wanted. But he didn't have that feeling like I want to impress this guy. Yeah. No, we were, we were, it was magic when we first got together. But then like anything, I did three albums. I also did half of Southern accents. Wow. Great. It gave Tom his comeback. Don't come around here no more because he was kind of cold. Yeah. But it also messed up Southern accents because Southern accents was a theme album.

But without don't come around here no more on it. It's not, he doesn't get on MTV. Yeah, that was like the step into the future. Yeah. It was programmed. It was different. It was Dave. Yeah, it was embracing. Because I got that song for Stevie. Wow. I went, I heard the rhythmics. I said, oh, fuck this. I went down to Dave's concert the first play in the play in LA. I brought him to Stevie's house. And he played me that drumbeat. And he just was singing himself. Don't come around here no more.

I said, holy shit. Stevie Nick singing don't come around here no more. That has to win. So as Dave would say, she was starting to sing Shakespeare over the verses. Right? So Dave says it's not working. I said, let me tell you something. Tom will write the shit out of this. He's got come back. Yeah. Tom got it back like that. See, you got it. Amazing. But no one ever mentions that including Tom. That's amazing. Right. Well, it's funny. No one knows this story.

So Tom comes in and he's writing it and he goes, you know what I mean? I'm going to take this one. I said, great. And Stevie didn't care one way or the other. And Tom got don't come around here no more. And it completely re-energized Tom's career. That's Stevie singing background on it. Incredible. Right. Those are great stories. Amazing. Amazing. You know, you can't play and you can't, you know, it's like, no, because you got to be, you know, record producers have to be spontaneous.

Yeah. You know, how do you feel about producing records these days? You still enjoy it? It's fun. It's fun because it goes from something that either you don't know what it is or it's not so good and you watch. I feel like I have no control over the situation. I'm not doing anything. But we're like playing and trying things. Let's try like this. Let's try like this. And then all of a sudden something happens and you can't believe it. How like that transformation of holy smokes.

I think I'm addicted to that experience of I can't believe this is as good as it is. I think about producing is I have to go, I could never go in again, but I would have to do it with somebody that's making their best work. Yeah. To do that with somebody who's older, you know, the only, the part you did it, Daniel and Warr would Bob Dylan. That record man, that record is awesome. Just awesome. There's one even after that, a couple after that, that I think Bob made himself called Modern Times.

That's not the one that. No, that's not that's post Daniel Dunwa couple post. And I remember going to Pettys house. So I heard it and it blew my mind. And I was at a point where I wasn't necessarily thinking the new Dylan Alms going to be the greatest thing because they weren't there. You know, they're hitting miss. And I went to Tom's house and I said, you got to hear this. What's the last time you saw Tom? Tom on the beach in Malibu, probably a year before he passed.

And I was invited and planned on going to see him at the Hollywood Bowl, which is one of his last shows. Maybe it's last show. I got a story about that show. But I just felt like I don't really want to drive in. Rick, you're freaking me out. Same. This is so weird for me. I had the tickets. I had the people meeting me backstage. I had everything. Yes. And it was six o'clock on a Sunday in Malibu. And I said, I got a drive to the fucking Hollywood Bowl.

And till today, I feel so shitty about not going. I have a different opinion. I like to get your opinion. So I'll take that. I feel like we weren't supposed to see him that night. That's what it is. We were not supposed to see him that night. And it worked out exactly the way it was supposed to. Because otherwise, we'd have been there. It really, then Stevie called me on the day it happened and just said, come over here right away. I said, I heard he died. He said, how could it be?

It just seemed so out of the like far fetched. Well, I mean, you knew him better in the later years than I did. I didn't see him that much. Although he did do the fight ones for me, which was really sweet. And he was great. And but I went to see him when he was on the life support. And it was weird. Because I walk in there. I walk in there. I think it was St. John's or UCLA in Santa Monica. And I see he's there and I walk up and I go and I look in this room. Tom's hooked up to the machine.

And you know, you know, the way that the machine breeds for you, he was gone. They just had him unplugged him. Yeah. So I whispered something in his ear, you know, and I walked outside and I saw Elliot Roberts and Tony Demetriatus and the band. And for the first time in my life, I said, so this is what it's going to look like. Yeah. You know what I mean? He said, I know, just my friends will be here. Yeah, this is what happens to everybody. Yeah. This is how it goes.

Yeah, I mean, but that's the night Tom Petty. That's what I was. I let me tell you, it's very possible, but there was a hospital in Malibu. He would have been able to go rather than getting those drugs, Robert, a fuck he got the fentanyl from. He may have been able to just go there to an emergency room and say my hip hurts. Yeah. They'd be alive today. Yeah. Really going to do right? We got so much to talk about. I love talking to you. It's a pleasure hearing you share the wisdom of the life.

You know, it's like no one else could tell the story about you. You know, Rick, this is where I am now. Five years ago, I retired. Yeah. Right? I retired because I couldn't work the way I worked and lived the life I wanted to live. I wasn't able to do what you were doing. Yeah. I'm going to work, but I'm going to go to Italy for three weeks. Yeah. I was thinking about the fucking guitar part or whatever whatever today's guitar part was the headphones, the Apple music.

We're going to win, lose, draw. Of course. So I had to quit. I wonder if I ever have the, if I could ever bring myself to that. It's interesting. It's inspirational. I did it at 65. To hear it. Yeah. And I'll tell you what, I think you could feel it in me. I'm a different carcadian rhythm. Yeah. I'm a different, I'm in a different space. I feel it. This is the most relaxed conversation I've ever had with you. I just feel, I just feel great and I do things. Of course.

I help my wife with her roller skating rinks and I help Jamie with network. I help my kids. I'm building high schools with Dre and I do a lot of. You do what interests you, but you don't feel like you're on the hook. The hook, the word, the hook isn't in my mouth. Great. That's the feeling. I understand. No, I know the feeling. And there's always somebody on the, and you know what? I don't want to have to convince people of anything anymore.

I don't want to have to convince people on giant deals or making the tambourine a little louder. I don't want to convince anybody of anything. If you want to play, we could play. Ever since I retired, my medical numbers have gone through the roof. I feel relaxed. Me and my wife are doing great. And my kids. Look, I'm going to be 70. I'm retired five years. Fantastic. I don't miss one fuck. By the way, Bruce asked me when I retired. He said, I can be retired.

I said, look, man, I just left Italy with you. I went to Milan, 80,000 people yelling Bruce. If they were yelling Jimmy, I wouldn't retire either. Yeah, it's different. I talk to scumbags all day. And I don't want to do that. Yeah, I understand that. I don't want to do it. I understand that. I want to do a big subject for our next talk about the people you have to deal with. Yeah. I love this. I love sitting in your phone, right? Oh, my God. It's fun. I think it's like it's posterity.

Well, first of all, this is lost information. No one knows. Well, you know, you're correcting that. You're like a... iter Ning Gojou.