hello and welcome to the tennis iq podcast i'm josh berger and i'm brian lomax and if you're a long time listener or maybe maybe not even a long time listener you know that josh and i like to read different things different books, articles, a lot of which we share with all of you, kind of our thoughts on what we're reading and consuming at the moment in terms of information.
education. And currently, I'm in the middle of reading a book called The Score Takes Care of Itself. And it's written by Bill Walsh. Bill Walsh was a longtime football coach, American. football coach, most famously known for his work with the San Francisco 49ers, in which while he was the head coach, they won three Super Bowls and they won a fourth when he was an executive.
with the team. And this book is really a distillation of his philosophy, his leadership philosophy. And there are a lot of great tidbits in the book. I came across one that really resonated, not just because he's bringing it up as maybe a leadership thing, but it really resonated as like, this is something I've experienced. And I know it's something that other players have experienced.
And it's something that he dubbed success disease. And what that is, and he noted this happening with his team after they won their first. Super Bowl. They won a Super Bowl I believe in 1981 and the following season there was a strike but the team didn't do well. And then the year after that, they were kind of mediocre. They're decent, but not great. And he noticed that when some players experience success, something happens.
to them or can. It can be, you know, winning a Super Bowl. So it can be a disorienting experience because, you know, for an American football player, that is the pinnacle, seemingly, of achievement. In football, what else do you have to achieve? Which, of course, we'll get to that question. And he noted that there were eight players on that team that basically self-destructed through...
celebrating too much, losing their discipline, having issues with alcohol and partying, etc. So it was really disorienting for several of the players. And it was even disorienting for him as a coach. He had never reached that level of success. And so what do you do when you're in that position? And I feel like this happens to all of us as we go through our tennis journeys and we...
achieve some sort of ranking or attain a particular rating, or maybe we get into that college we wanted to go to. And it feels like, ah, I made it. Success. And it's almost like you relax a little bit and maybe a little bit content with where you are. So I'm going to stop there, Josh, just to get kind of your preliminary thoughts on this idea of...
success disease and maybe some of the characteristics that you've seen or maybe even some of the things that were in the book? Yeah, I think it happens at all different levels. I think it can happen in junior tennis, right? Somebody's moving from the 10s to the 12s to the 14s, et cetera, and maybe they win their first tournament in that age group.
or they win their first higher level, their first tournament at a certain level. I think it can happen there. I think it can happen, as you mentioned, somebody gets into a certain university or gets maybe a college scholarship. I think it can happen, you know, in adult tennis, you know, league tennis, let's say, where maybe somebody's bumped up to a new rating or somebody, you know, wins a tournament or, you know, their team.
you know, qualifies for nationals and that's, you know, feels like a really big achievement. Or, and you see it at the pros, you see players who. have this breakthrough. They maybe win their first Grand Slam and then, you know, never quite get to that same level again. So I think it's a really important topic and it's one that
You know, I think it's a phenomenon that we see quite a bit at all different levels. And I think, you know, we can start to think about why, you know, before we get into potential solutions or maybe different approaches that can be effective. We could talk about why it happens. And I think, you know, people aren't necessarily prepared for that sort of success. Right. And I think Bill Walsh, you know, talks about that.
calls it disorienting change that we're, that we're unprepared for. So I think, yeah, people have had, you know, had the dream of winning a Superbowl for, since they were kids or always dreamed about.
being number one in the world or winning a grand slam and then when it happens we don't exactly know how how to handle it or what comes next um and i think what can happen you know you you talked about some of the super bowl players who sort of fell off the rails and in different ways with you know whether it be substance abuse or um you know or or maybe not continuing to train as hard or maybe getting cocky in certain ways which can
which can certainly happen. And yeah, we certainly see this in tennis at different levels as well, where once somebody reaches that sort of... finish line in a certain degree that they've established for themselves. Maybe it's, you know, I really want to get that college scholarship or I really want to play college tennis and okay, now I'm playing college tennis.
And somehow it feels like I've already crossed that finish line rather than that simply just being a milestone along some sort of longer, bigger journey, which we'll talk more about. So I think it's, yeah, I think it's a really important topic because, you know, and I think people experience this in other areas of life too, right? Maybe somebody has a...
career goal outside of tennis where they want to get to a certain level within their company. And then, okay, once they've got there, once they've reached that point, what do they have to maybe keep them going to? set new goals, to continue to motivate themselves, to stay motivated ultimately. So I think we'll definitely talk about some of those different things probably a little bit later on in this conversation.
Yeah, I think it's definitely a phenomenon that's seen in all different areas of life at different levels and ages. And I think being prepared for it ahead of time makes it a lot easier to... to handle it if and when it happens. Yeah, it's probably more of a when, we hope, that it happens, you know, because it's not a bad sign.
that if this does happen to you. And so let's talk about some of the symptoms. Since Bill Walsh is calling it a disease, let's talk about the symptoms. And then we can also talk about, all right, what are some of the root causes that we can apply solutions to? So, you know, some of the things that he mentioned, and I can throw in a few others that I've seen, but can really lead to a decrease in discipline.
And this can also happen, Josh, just like you're working with somebody, you've taught them some mental skills, different ways of thinking, and they start to have some success. And then, oh, I'm fixed. I got it now. And then the discipline drops. That's a very... That's the same thing, right? It's just a much smaller scale. So discipline can go down, effort, focus, the hunger for something because maybe our goals haven't been really properly set.
loss of attention to detail to what we typically do. Maybe that goes with discipline. There can also sometimes be a bit of overconfidence and arrogance. Maybe we feel how somehow we're better. than others um and so maybe we assume that we can win um whenever we want to or we have this ability to just turn it on when it when it really matters um and you know
We've already mentioned these two words, but it can result in, I think, complacency and contentment. Contentment is a really dangerous, I don't know if it's an emotion necessarily, but kind of a mood or state. for an athlete. Because it's a sense that what I've done already is enough. And, you know... We mentioned earlier, all right, you know, when you've won one Super Bowl, like that's the pinnacle of the sport. Well, is it? Or is it winning two? Or three? Or seven? What is it?
Why stop at one? And, you know, this is something I felt in my career, Josh. Back in 2006, I... I had like one of the best years of my career. I got ranked number two in the US in the 35s. And I felt like, all right, I'm never going to do better than that. So the next year, I hardly played. It got out of shape. I don't think I really came back to serious training until maybe 2009 or 10. I got really content with what happened and I kind of lost focus on like, why am I playing here?
You know, and I was able to kind of right the ship in 2010 and did much better after that. But this is why I feel like we've all felt this to a certain degree. Whether it's just having a little success with a mental skill and then thinking you're fixed or attaining a ranking. More like you said, a college scholarship. So we just want to be aware of this. As much as possible, because I think if we get into a little bit of the root causes of it, it tends to be in how we set goals.
understand goals versus purpose and mastery and how those things work together. Your thoughts on that? Well, I think there are a lot of different thoughts. I mean, I think that, you know, to me, it brings me back to James Clear's concept where he talks about... identity and how if somebody's like, let's say somebody wants to run a marathon and that's their end goal and they're working towards it.
um, setting different milestones. Okay. I'm going to run, um, eight miles and then I'm going to run, you know, 12 miles and then 15 miles and 20 miles. And then I, you know, I'm really gearing up towards, towards marathon day. And I'm working really hard. I've been training diligently. The day comes, I run the marathon. I'm happy with how it all went. And in some way, that can feel like...
no, I guess no pun intended, a finish line. That can feel like sort of the ending point where it's like, okay, that was my goal to run a marathon. And I did it. And, you know, and that's the end. And he compares that to the ultimate goal of being the goal of being a runner and sort of how identifying as a runner. you know, how that is, you know, is far more preferable. Yeah, it tends to be more preferable and leads to more sustained.
improvement and result over time. Where again, if that end goal is to be a runner and sort of part of that is identifying as a runner the whole time. then that leads you to not just running one marathon, but, you know, running as much as you can, right? Okay, maybe that means, you know, I'm running a marathon, then maybe I run a 5k. And then maybe I do some smaller races.
And then maybe there's another marathon down the road. And, you know, I think when it can be viewed in this sort of way, it... you know it rather than some sort of achievement being that end goal and sort of that that finish line um then it you know it instead is simply just a milestone along that journey. And I think that the same can be true when it comes to tennis, right? Let's keep college tennis as an example, right? Unless the...
Instead of the end goal being, I want to play college tennis, which again is a great goal, a great achievement. If that is simply a milestone along that journey of us being the best player that we can be. then that I think propels us further towards, towards continued success in the sport and continued development in the sport, because it's, you know,
Instead of it feeling like, okay, I've already achieved what I set out to achieve. It feels like, no, I reached an important milestone here. But, you know, in certain ways, the work is... The next step is just starting, right? Okay. Now I'm playing college tennis. Now I have four years of playing at a high level. I have a new coach, new teammates. I'm away from home. I'm going to be traveling.
And this is a whole new experience and challenge in front of me. And if I feel like I've already crossed that finish line, then that upcoming challenge is going to feel a lot more daunting and we're not going to be as ready for it. Rather than, you know, feeling like, okay, I'm trying to be that best player. And yes, maybe I reached that first milestone and we can talk about how to maybe approach and celebrate that.
you know, reaching that milestone. But it's just that one milestone that's been crossed. And now I'm on to that next challenge, that next piece of the mission in front of me. So before we move on, just want to remind our listeners that this episode is sponsored by Go Sport, G-E-A-U Sport. So GoSport's a family-owned business in the U.S. They specialize entirely on gear bags, so racket bags, duffel bags, backpacks for tennis and pickleball. These are products made with premium fabrics.
and materials same same materials that are used in in premium outdoor products um and they last for years and so uh you know josh and i are using our go sport axiom 9-0 or actually 209 racket bag. And I know, Josh, that you actually played some tennis this week and experimented with how to use your bag. Yeah, I... have started using it. And, you know, it took me a little bit just to transfer everything from my old bag that I had been using for years.
And, you know, just figuring out sort of what are the right places for everything, right? What's nice about it is it gives you a lot of options. There's space for your rackets. There's a separate compartment for shoes. a place you can put, you know, your phone wallet keys. There's a sort of a separate section where you can put, you know, a change of clothes or dirty clothes.
And a lot of different areas and just, you know, looking at the fabric, feeling it on your back and you can, it's very comfortable. You can really see the. um the quality of it it seems like it's going to be extremely durable as well so um yeah you know it's it's i've enjoyed starting to use it and uh
I can tell that it's going to be something that I'll have for a long time and enjoy using for a long time. So yeah, definitely, you know, encourage people to go to gosport.com. Again, we have our... Our discount code that we'll mention is also in the show notes as well for 10% off. So definitely encourage people to go check out gosport.com, G-E-A-U sport.com. Great. Thank you, Josh. Tennis IQ 10 for 10% off. There you go. All right. So coming back to some of the maybe...
root causes of this. I think you're bringing up some really good points here about, and I guess the way I like to think of it is As we're on our journey, you know, in our tennis project, trying to become the best player that we can become is to almost think of it as a, you know, a drawing or an org chart or, you know, some sort of hierarchy.
in which at the top sits this idea of the purpose, the ultimate goal, maybe the pinnacle goal, which is to become the best player that we can become. And everything else is really... building toward that serving that purpose um i think sometimes success disease can occur when a player forgets the purpose and replaces it with one of these achievement goals. And as if that everything depends, my success truly depends on me achieving this one thing.
And for a lot of younger players, that does end up being college tennis, even though we know they've got four more years. But it could be something else. We've talked about Dominic Thiem and his desire to win a Grand Slam. He obviously were a lot of factors that, you know, occurred in Dominic's career post his win at the US Open in 2020, injury being one of them. But, you know, there was some...
Note of him also not feeling as motivated after winning the tournament because of this, of what his goal had been. And so we could say that in a way, the goal setting process. How you do that is really important. That you don't let these achievement goals become your purpose. Otherwise, you're much more likely to face some of the symptoms here.
of something like success disease so i think as players begin to think about what it is what is the purpose of their journey i think we just want to remind everybody this is about Becoming the best player you can become. Let's see how good you can get. None of us know that. Everybody's potential is really unknowable. And if we are... Looking at achievement goals as being the pinnacle, we're probably artificially lowering our potential. We're almost limiting how good we can become.
Because we're becoming satisfied with something that isn't maybe even close to how good you could become. So it takes some courage. It takes some... um foresight in terms of what we're why we're doing this and i think that's always a good exploration of why am i playing tennis it shouldn't be just to win tournaments that's a nice to have um and if you keep
making yourself the best player you can become, those are nice things. Like even Bill Walsh's title of his book, The Score Takes Care of Itself. He also has a quote about learning. And he said, when the environment... is dedicated to learning, the results take care of themselves. I think that is great advice, especially for us as tennis players. You keep up your system of performance.
Keep up your discipline, your hunger. The results are going to take care of themselves. Just keep doing that, doing that. Let's see how good you can get through that process. So that to me, Josh, is one of the major sort of... root causes for why a player might be susceptible to some of these drops in discipline and the other factors that we might call success disease. Absolutely.
To me, one of the main and maybe the main issues with focusing too much on outcomes or on specific results is that they're not fully within your control, right? You can have... the goal of trying to win a particular match when when you're on the court you can have a goal of trying to have a certain ranking or you know make it onto a certain team or you know reach a certain level
but it's not fully within your control. And there could be different factors for that, right? When you step onto the court with somebody, there is an opponent that is dead set on working against your goals of winning that match because they want to win that match too, right? Things like ratings, you know, UTR ratings, let's just say. Can you impact them and set yourself up to...
improve your rating over time? Yes, absolutely. And I think by being process-focused, by working towards the right sorts of things, you set yourself up for that. But you can't... directly control your your rating um you know the same is true you know when you go into a tournament again if your goal is to win a particular tournament
You don't know how other people are going to play. You don't know how other people have been training. There might be certain bad luck against you. There might be certain line calls. There's all sorts of different factors. So to me, one of the main issues here is that people are setting themselves up for a goal that they can't directly control. Where instead, this idea of being...
more process focused and focusing on the right sorts of things of being the best that we can be. And, you know, that we can talk about what that means, but, you know, being the best that we can be physically right in terms of our technique. being the best we can be in terms of our strength and conditioning, being the best we can be mentally. If we're able to be the best that we can be in some of these different ways, then it...
you know, then that really is within our control. Again, we might experience injuries. We might have certain limitations. We might have bad luck in certain ways. We might have good luck in certain ways. Like all of these things. can happen which again ultimately impact that end result but if but you know by setting that that end goal of being the best that we can be it that really is within our
within our reach, within our control rather than some of these outcomes. So I think it's important to talk about, you know, and I think it makes sense why people strive for these outcomes. I think it's. From a societal perspective, that tends to be sort of the scorecard that people, you know, people give you praise when you win a tournament, when you have a, when you're number one in the world, you get, you get recognized. You want, you know.
you wind up on the cover of magazines or you're more of a celebrity. But I think... Instead of sort of those external factors of success, which again, aren't fully controllable at all, focusing on going about things the right way, focusing on our process, focusing on having high standards. since it actually is completely controllable, is a much better way to approach things. And I think the issue with that, you know, of focusing too much on...
sort of results and on artificial sort of finish lines and goals that we may set for ourselves is that I think it's completely unsustainable in a certain way. Nobody... is successful with the results all the time. Nobody, no matter how good somebody is. So if we're basing our definition of success off of those sorts of results, in a certain way, we set ourselves up for frustration and disappointment.
because it's not always going to happen so again and as we sort of shift gears in the conversation well i think we'll talk about you know by having the goal being you know working towards being the best player that we can be, we set ourselves up to actually focus on something within our grasp, within our control, something that we can directly impact on a day-to-day basis.
You mentioned defining success. So let's do that because I think that's actually part of maybe the formula to help a player, right? So if we were consulting with someone who's going through this. Because as you mentioned, Josh, success defined by our society tends to be about winning and other forms of that. And it always makes me think of... John Wooden's definition of success. John Wooden, very famous college basketball coach in the United States, won many national championships at UCLA.
was also a great player at Purdue University. So I believe he's in the Basketball Hall of Fame for both coach and player. So his definition of success, which I will paraphrase to a degree, is success is peace of mind. That you have done everything you could to become the best that you could become.
And getting to your point, Josh, everything within that definition is controllable. There's no mention of winning at all. And one of the key parts of it is really the first part to me, which is... peace of mind it's almost like that look back and say you know and you can say yeah i i did based on what i knew at the time i did everything i could to become the best
And what we're really trying to do there is minimize maybe potential regrets that we might accumulate through our careers. And so I think to me, that's like one of the first things that we could work with. with a player who might be feeling this is is to help them redefine success it doesn't have to you don't have to necessarily adopt the john wooden definition but can we work on something that
is much more controllable for you such that it isn't dependent on outcomes that are not fully within your control because we don't want your career to end and you say, well, I was a failure. I didn't achieve. this kind of thing um so your thoughts on that to begin in terms of our how we would consult with the player i like that and i think
I think it makes a lot of sense. Again, if we're sticking with the different approaches that we can take going into a tournament, where one approach is, I want to win this tournament. That's my end goal. And the other approach is, I want to... feel by the end of this tournament that i've done everything that i could do that i've you know that i've left it all out there mentally and physically i you know did my best strategically i tried to play the way that i want to play
i stay composed emotionally i use my different tools i reset between points i use my self-talk effectively my breathing all these different things that i'm trying to do I can leave the court feeling satisfied. Hey, I did everything I can do. And that doesn't mean that we're going to be playing, that we're going to play perfectly every day because nobody does. Right. But, you know, a way that I.
think about it. And, um, this is actually an idea from Ken Revisa who, you know, did a lot of work in sports psychology for decades, um, in, in different sports. Um, but he talked about, you know, you're not going to have a hundred percent. every day some days you're going to wake up you're going to feel great you're going to feel energized you're going to play amazing and those days it's sport is pretty easy for you and everybody experiences that sometimes but
If you have 60% on a given day, maybe that's because you didn't get enough sleep the night before or you have other things going on in life at that time. If you have 60% on that particular day... your goal should be to give 100% of that 60%. That is you doing your best on that particular day because you can't do anything more than that. I think what often happens is somebody has...
60% in the tank on that day. And rather than finding a way to give 100% of that, they're frustrated that they're at 60% instead of 100%. looking for excuses, they're criticizing themselves, they're comparing themselves, they're worried about what other people are going to think. And then instead of giving 100% of that 60%, they're giving maybe 50% of that.
And then, you know, and then we don't wind up anywhere close to our potential on that given day of what we have. So I think, you know, it's about giving our best. of what we have on that day. And not just this sort of vague idea of do your best, but giving yourself specific things to focus on and then having a way to measure that. And that's why I think things like process goals.
can be really key where you can outline for yourself ahead of time. What are some of those main things I want to achieve today, but not just in general, like I want to win this match. That wouldn't be a process goal because it's out of our control. a process goal, something controllable that directly leads to those types of outcomes and results that we want over time. Something like I want to really slow things down and reset.
between points where I want to use my self-talk as a tool, or I want to go in, you know, I want to feel like I've done everything that I can do to prepare well for the match or whatever it may be. And, you know, I think if we can. outline specific things that we want to focus on and really try to do our best again, not just broadly, but with specific things that we've outlined for ourselves, then we can feel content that we can feel that, that level of contentment that.
that John Wooden talks about where it's like, hey, I've done everything that I can do and I can leave with my head held high, whether that means a W or an L on the scoreboard, ultimately. And, you know, to me, that's what it's about. And again, that's a lot more controllable. We can work towards doing that more and more and more over time, right? Whether we end up...
Winning more and more and winning a particular match or tournament, again, we can impact it. We can control it. We can control that feeling at the end of the day or the end of the match that. I did everything that I can do. And again, that doesn't mean we're going to play the same level every day. That doesn't mean we're going to play our best every day, right? Everybody has better days and worse days. Everybody, including the best in the world.
If we're able to give 100% of what we have of that 60% or 80% or 30% on a particular day, then we can leave with our head held high. Yeah, I think it's always a good goal to try to leave the court proud of yourself, personally satisfied with the effort, the attitude. A couple other things that I would... recommend to players who are going through this. We've already touched on the idea of the goal hierarchy and the purpose and to reconnect with that.
uh you know more so on a daily basis the journey toward mastery is like a never-ending journey so we have to kind of realize that this tennis project we're on doesn't stop at a certain artificial deadline maybe that we've set now
Of course, the career at some point will come to an end. And if we're working on the tennis project in an intelligent way, we've planned for that. We've maybe thought about the transition and what the next level of the... of tennis is in our lives and so we don't have to worry about that quite as much um but this whole topic made me think about a couple of great athletes who are not tennis players
LeBron James and Kobe Bryant, both basketball players. And something that both of them declared very early in their careers. They both said that they wanted to be the greatest players in the history. of their sport of basketball. And on the face of it, that sounds like a little, I don't know, arrogant, a little conceited, a little cocky. Because they were basically both 18 when they said it.
But what did both of them do? They both became great learners, asked a lot of questions. They never stopped working on the fundamentals. I mean, if anybody's read a lot about Kobe Bryant is... Sort of either midnight workouts or 3.30, 4 a.m. workouts are famous. Nobody else is doing that. So these guys were paying attention to the details. Novak Djokovic.
Hasn't exactly said this, but he's obviously won more Grand Slam titles than anybody in tennis, at least on the men's side. And he still pays attention to the little details. He still enjoys what he's doing. And that's really an important piece. So I think these players, these people who are at the top of their sport...
They tend to focus more on learning and improving more so than having to prove themselves. So I think that's an important piece. I think if you do reach some sort of milestone, celebrate it. But maybe do it in a formal way. I mean, maybe you have a party or go out to dinner or something. But then set a date for yourself when you're back to work. Back to working on the project.
um getting back to the discipline giving yourself some reasons to continue to be hungry because there's always more there's always more for us to work toward um and then my last point to help somebody through this is be thankful for your discipline and systems that have allowed you to get to where you are today. That's what's really helped you. And we can't take those things for granted.
And so we want to treat our process, our systems, our discipline as a major part of our career. And let's continue to look at it. Let's continue to examine it. How do we improve it? How do we simplify it? How do we make it more efficient? And that process can be done with coaches, other advisors, and of course yourself doing some reflection.
To me, those are some things, Josh. We'd love to get your thoughts on that as well as other suggestions. I know you have a few other suggestions for people who might be going through this. Yeah, I wanted to start with... Yeah, talking about some of those sort of greatest of all time players. Yeah, whether it's people like LeBron and Kobe who not just set that goal, but really did, yeah, went.
way above and beyond what other people are doing. And, you know, they could have after winning an MVP or after winning, you know, after. winning an NBA championship, it would be very easy to get content and to stop and say, okay, you know, I've... We were the best team last year. I was the best player in the league and maybe the best player in the world. Okay, why do I have to keep doing these 3.30 a.m. workouts?
You know, I think about tennis. Yeah. You think about Serena, Djokovic, Federer, Nadal. How do you win 20 plus Grand Slams? Like how can we actually stop and think for a second? Like how does somebody actually do that? Because when you win one Grand Slam, you have a target on your back. The rest of the world, and it's not like, you know, those people that are...
competing against you, right? The people that are 10 in the world or 30 in the world or 50 in the world, they can play too, right? It's not like you're facing chumps out there. You're facing... you know, the best players in the world on a week in week out basis. So how do you actually win 20 plus grand slips? And you can look at their game and you could say, okay, they have.
you know, certain aspects of their game physically that other people don't have. And there's a certain degree of truth to that, but it takes a relentlessness. It takes a... you know, just an unbelievable amount of commitment. And Djokovic, you mentioned, and there's a story that actually I wanted to bring up about him. And some people may know he won.
He won his first Grand Slam, and then it was a few years. He won his first Grand Slam at the Australian Open, but he was always, for a few years, he was number three behind Federer-Nadal. And then 2011 was really his breakthrough year. He went on quite a long winning streak. I think he won three of the four Grand Slams, I believe.
But the story actually comes from 2012, where he beat Nadal in the Australian Open final. It was five hours, 53 minutes. People have maybe seen the... photo or video of the two of them, you know, sort of like both hunched over after the match during the trophy ceremony because they're just exhausted from playing nearly six hours. And people might be familiar with Djokovic's rather radical or extreme diet changes. He wrote a book about it, Serve to Win, where he talks a lot about...
his changes of diet, how he went gluten-free, went lactose-free, went, I think, primarily plant-based, and made a lot of changes. And after this match in 2012, he wanted... one thing, right? He had made these real changes with his diet. He wanted to taste chocolate, which he hadn't tasted since the summer of 2010. And so he was somebody, you know, coach or somebody gave him a bar of chocolate after, you know, winning.
the australian open and he allowed himself to have just one small square of it and sort of let it dissolve on his tongue let himself kind of taste it and that was all he allowed himself he didn't devour that chocolate bar and five more, like probably many would do after, after both winning a grand slam title and after playing six hours of tennis, he had that one square and sort of, to me, what that means is, you know, it's, it's almost that.
That recognition that, okay, we did this, but the journey, you know, okay, we won the Australian Open, but the journey isn't finished, right? I'm on some sort of a bigger mission than just what it means to win this one title.
I am continuing to push it to the next level and not get complacent, not get content, not allowing myself to fall off the rails here. Because again, this is not the finish line. This is... just a milestone, which again, I think is an approach that, and sort of a philosophy that we can take to achievements in general, both, you know, again, if we take that approach beforehand, so that we're more prepared for the achievement when it happens.
And then I think, yeah, it's sort of in the moment and after the fact, if we can approach it in that way and not let both the celebration and the reaction to the achievement get in the way of... of what comes next. So just wanted to bring that up. And then, yeah, I had a few different, I guess, suggestions. And I like the ones that you came up with. And there's definitely some overlap here, which are to celebrate.
wins whether it's small wins whether it's large wins i think for athletes it's so easy to recognize what's wrong and maybe not always give ourselves credit for what we're doing well what we're doing right So to be able to catch ourselves doing things well, be able to recognize and celebrate small wins, to be able to continually set new goals for ourselves. Again, how do you win 20 plus Grand Slams?
find new goals for yourself, you find new sources of motivation, I think is a huge part of it. You know, being able to maintain high standards for yourself, which again, I think relates to that sort of chocolate square idea from Djokovic. And then maintaining confidence, but not getting cocky, which I think is a really key point. It's really easy to get cocky when you've achieved success.
Number one, when you've won a Grand Slam, when you've reached that maybe goal or milestone that you set for yourself. So again, using that as a source of confidence, we could talk about how we do that, but making sure that that doesn't...
I guess, get to your head, you can say, or get cocky in that situation. Yeah. And I think with tennis, we always have to earn everything on the court. And so being cocky or arrogant or... disrespectful to opponents ultimately only hurts us it's a competitive disadvantage in that in that regard so um i think this is a really interesting topic
Josh, because I think we've all felt it. We've all maybe reacted to it in different ways. You brought up the college tennis thing. I've seen some college players stop playing once they got into their school. I have experienced firsthand players being on a team and not that interested in working on their games and more or less just floating through those four years and content.
to do so um you know i think as a coach or as coaches we didn't feel too good about how maybe that had been i don't know it's almost like uh we had the wool pulled over our eyes about offering scholarships and then have a player do something like that um but it happens and uh you just got to do the best you can as a coach with that but um i think the more that you know
Players can, again, identify with their purpose, what they want to achieve in the sport, not just in terms of accomplishments, but that definition of success. Can we come back to that? But this is hard. And, you know, maybe the first time you go through it, you'll have a drop off. And what you'll notice, though, is any good results that you've been having will probably start to fade.
You'll struggle more on the court. Maybe motivation will go down. And so try to be aware of these dynamics as you're playing and experiencing different things on the court. And try to come back to your purpose and how you set goals and being motivated. So Josh, last thoughts? Yeah, I would say, you know, just to try to keep that end goal or end mission in mind. You know, we've talked a lot about in today's episode and in past episodes, you know, how that.
can be maybe a new mission for people, being the best you can be, being the best tennis player you can be, the best person you could be. And again, that the... the score takes care of itself the results take care of itself the winning takes care of itself right just by me focusing on winning winning winning and saying okay i really want to win this match i really want to improve my utr that doesn't actually
help me win this match. It doesn't help me improve the UTR. It actually often works against us. It makes us feel unnecessary pressure. It makes us feel tight, tense, makes us afraid to lose, afraid to miss. So instead, focusing on, you know, going about things in the right way, focusing on being our best, giving ourselves specific things that we want to focus on to be better with, you know, in different areas of the game.
And on the mental side, on our nutrition side, on our footwork, on our technique, on all these different areas, if we can focus on being the best that we can be, then we've done everything that we can possibly do. We've controlled. the controllables. We've set high standards for ourselves in some of these different ways. To me, it reminds me of that Michaela Schifrin quote that we've talked about in the past of, was it her?
yeah of yeah keep your expectations low and your standards yes exactly yeah keeping keeping your expectations low when your standards high right so expectations being more result-based
Right. You know, not focusing too much on that end result. We might want to be the best NBA player who's ever lived, or we might want to win grand slams, or we might want to make it onto a college team or to go from a. 3.5 to a 4.0 to a 4.5 over time but again let's focus on how we get there let's focus on being the best that we can be and the results and the score will take care of itself
Well, thank you, Josh. Excellent conversation. And thank you, everyone, for listening. That is our show for today. For more on today's episode, please check out the show notes if you have any feedback or questions for the two of us. please email us at tennisiqpodcast at gmail.com. Also, if you're enjoying the content that Josh and I discuss on the show, please rate and review the podcast so other tennis enthusiasts can find it more easily.
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