¶ Intro / Opening
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Podcast everywhere ACAS.com. I became number one, I won Grand Slams. It's easy to to talk about that because I really realize my dreams but not
No, for the
Life is very good. Like it's very very people were saying ah she's talented but she's pretty small and also mentally she looks maybe a little bit fashy. So not so many people. believed I had this talent. They didn't really m see my deep conviction. When this has been a fight to keep my dream, not
letting anyone take my dream. When I arrived on tour and I started to win there was a lot of pressure and it's been an amazing challenge to deal with that. We were always thinking what is the priorities to take care of I'm not gonna do this Gonna do that. Tennis was Where do you put your own?
I am Caroline Garcia.
From Grandland champions to rising stars, they tell their stories in their own words. Subscribe now. your favorite platform and don't miss an episode. Let's get started.
Welcome to Tennis Insider Club.
Justine, thank you so much for being with us today.
Yeah.
I'm so grateful and we are kind of lucky also timing wise, so
Yeah.
¶ Childhood, Family, and Sports Beginnings
It's good. It's really nice. Um first question, how did you start with Ste?
I started with tennis uh because in the family I I grew up with two uh older brothers. Um they are seven and nine years older than me and I often yeah, I speak often about my talk often about my brothers because they had a big impact in my uh in my life. because yeah, it's two older brothers and I had to build my character. They were giving me a lot of trouble in a certain way.
And uh in another way they they were very patient uh with me and uh playing a lot and uh they were they were playing tennis, they were playing football also. And my dad was into sport, um, for fun, but uh we were watching sport on T V and every weekend was dedicated to to sport with my brothers and uh so it's how it started because they were my idols and um
also in my life, uh I mean my my parents they lost their first child. It was a little girl of two and a half years old and then they had my two brothers and then I was the first girl after them yeah, the girl they lost. So Um there was a lot of emotions also on that and the first girl after Florence and so I had to, you know, to yeah to find my place and to build my place and with my brother.
they were we giving me a lot of trouble. When I think back I say, Wow, I had to to push and to fight and uh but they were playing all the time with me and uh uh when I think back um on this because after we become professional it becomes a job also and but when after fourteen years now I've retired I can think back and I say Wow, it's just started with the with just playing, you know, no code.
No, no, yeah, no. N nobody to say ah you have to do this you to do this. You just play in the family with your brothers and and you fight because you wanna beat them and And uh so there was really uh we had tennis table also at home, so that was really my first contact with a with a racket. I was wasn't taller than the table but I wasn't I wasn't missing and uh we did live in an apartment uh but we were lucky in the in the yeah, in a big apartment so we had places to
uh to do a lot of sport in the apartment and also the tennis club was uh a hundred meters from from the apartment so so that's how it it started. Very very simple in in family atmosphere. And um it was it was tennis, it was football, and it was all sports. As soon as I could play with them I was happy.
And uh do you think to be able to like play with your brother and do other sports also like really help you to be more athletic?
Oh y that's for sure. Um because you you were not thinking about how how long I'm gonna play, how long I'm gonna do this, so you just play and you play with all day long also football had a big impact also in my development These days, when you look at the kids that start sports as soon as they play well in tennis, for example,
Okay, you we the you have to be specific, uh the you know, every everyone thinks that we have to play a lot and only do this because we're gonna go faster. But I think completely the opposite as uh as a certain age I think we have to develop so many other things, huh? So did you do other sports when you were young?
Very little. I did, so my parents were playing a bit tennis.
Often.
Uh so they signed me for tennis and then they signed me for basketball and dance. Dance I just
Hate it.
Yeah.
Same for me, but Make me dance.
At the end of the year you had the show like I'm I'm my parents and there is like a little recording video of me doing a drama out there. And basketball it was just like no girls team, so it was just like just stop and I s stick with them.
Yeah.
But
It's true that we had Darren Cahill and uh Wim Fissette in the in the podcast and both like when we asked them advice for young kids and young and parents. They were saying do as many sports as you can because it's gonna help you. Like don't focus on tennis at the beginning. Like try to do as much as you can and it's gonna like pay off in the long term.
convinced uh for for social life and for and development and also tennis for example is so specific and and we I mean asymmetric also so Uh in football w I was playing in boys team because they were not girls team. No, but uh with my brothers I explained so you know I mean
Right.
I knew how to do with the boys, and I was, of course, an attacking player who wanted to score. So I developed also a lot of my character, but also the coordination was fantastic, and also you see other things. And then, because these kids that start, you know, at five, six years old, tennis, and they do only this at 12, 13, 14 maximum.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, they burn out.
For me, but for the the small story, uh it became dangerous. At twelve I was still playing football and at twelve the boys started to be physical also. So the last match it was tough. Um a bit dangerous and my parents say now it becomes too too too tough and we want you to s to stop uh football. And the day after, yes, I was a bit sad, but it was and the day after I was falling on a tennis coat, dislocated my shoulder, playing tennis.
So it was a bit uh a bit strange. But at the end I chose the right uh the white spot, yes.
¶ The Iconic Backhand and Youth Development
Did you start right away with a one-handed back end?
I did, I did. I was uh uh I was a big fan, uh my first memories watching uh T uh tennis on T V was Teffy Graph. Uh At Roland Garros and uh my other idol was uh Stefanette Burg. So mm they were more slicing, I I agree, but still
Um they were really I mean their elegance on the on the court and also their personality pretty b not shy but you know not uh yeah more introvert. Uh I I did like It's very much so when I saw Steffi and when I l uh I saw some pictures uh recently of me uh at the age of nine or ten and the preparation on the slice was exactly the same as as it was for Steffi.
Uh but uh but then I started to hit one one hand back and so many my dad first one said, You don't have enough power, you need to take the two hands, especially on the return. But I did resist to a lot of people that wanted me to to change my backend. Um and of course it took uh it took a while to to develop it, uh but first it was just my inspiration idea and I want to do it like like this and I'm sure I can find a way in a s yeah, in the way I develop my hand with the one handed back end for
f with my you know, my m the the also my physically, the way I was playing, the way I was moving, uh the fact that I could have a good defense in in slice and also come to the net and I I learned a lot with this and so after that some tried to to make me change. But I did resist. I'm happy. I remember one coach at the end age of uh nine, Luke uh was his name, and I was hitting so many beacons and I couldn't, you know, pass the forearm.
And uh he was just doing like this with the the the head. So I I knew what I had to do but I didn't have the po I didn't yeah.'Cause I always I always thought, okay, my back end was natural but when I think back now I work a lot a lot on this and one day I felt I felt that movement and finally he said okay that's the way I wasn't talking too much so he had a big impact in my um in my packet. Right.
Well it's good you trusted yourself.
Yeah.
We paid off. We paid off.
I mean it was still a time where you could see quite a lot of one-handed backhand, especially on the men's but on the women's also like Amelia had one and there was a couple of other ones. It's the gener generation after that kind of especially for women got lost.
Yes, yes, and I don't think it's gonna get better and better.
No, it's not gonna come back.
Of course, you know it better because you played more recently than me, but the game is going very fast. But that makes me sad a little bit because when when we see when we train uh the the younger kids and and the girls also but
now we want to make them play and hit a lot of balls at a very young age and do the rallies and rallies and rallies. And I like, you know, that time that uh with our kids at the academy we we really try to Let them play also and create be creative at the very be kids, yeah, because at a very young age I I believe today we we want to structure them so um so early. And there is no place, no room to work, you know, the agility, to work the hand. That's something that we don't see anymore. I mean...
Yeah, it just you just know how to hit flat crust.
Online. Which can help in a certain way and for sure. These days you need to you need to play uh fast and you need to move well and you need to I you need to be very complete but uh And we can see, uh on the menstrual we can uh we we the drop shot today takes a a big place and we can see the guys also because they need to find also because so many are able to to play fast and to to run good.
So we can see again that they want to add, I believe, something to the games, coming more to the net. Uh using still I mean on clay of course easier, but the drop shot uh now it's we we see so many of them. The girls we can see that some try but we can see that didn't develop that at the right time because at a certain time it's it's getting late also to work on this.
and it's not as clean so maybe under stress it doesn't come Well, as it should be.
But because they didn't work at all.'Cause uh we know if you work on something at the right age. Yeah. But basic For me, in the development of the kids and the players, we need the results so fast that you don't take the time to... to develop certain things at the r at the right time. And uh we need I mean also I try to resist to this, we n we need time for certain things, no? So I I I believe but
Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes no, it looks like maybe they compromise the long term for like a short term result, no, when at the end what it what matters is what happens when you're like on your twenties, no, not on your twelve or thirteen. Interesting.
¶ Childhood Dreams and Deep Conviction
And how was like that transition for you from like just playing for fun with your like mm brothers? Yeah. To start to okay, maybe I have a chance, so I need to step up, work harder, when does this begin?
I I think it's never been actually a question for me when I was six.
I was like
saying uh I want to win Roland Garros and be number one so at the age of six and you know it's it's true and I was watching Steve Steffi on on TV and this is why Roland Garros for me I can still you really hear the sound of the ball when we were watching on on on T V. Um it this is very special, and this ornament for this uh the clay and uh
And I still can can feel this. When she was playing after that I was going into my my bedroom and I was playing the final myself, you know, good uh visualising what uh what I wanted to yeah, it was my my dream and uh I was holding a trophy. I was asking also my my little sister. uh to uh to do the journalist, you know, as we audience after yeah, it was good. That's nice and she she would say to you now and she wasn't happy
I wasn't asking the good questions. So it it the dream was there and um It's like I never... I have the feeling I never have to ask the question to myself. Yeah. Uh do I want to do this or not? That's what I maybe it's a bit weird, but this is what I want to to do and uh I was coming from uh the the challenge it has been really I was coming from a very small town in in Belgium. Yeah and from a normal family. Uh
And the little girl that says I was pretty also shy, you know, not making a lot of noise, not talking too much. But when people were asking me what I wanted to do, I was saying, uh, uh, I want to be number one in Dennis and uh they were looking at me like, Wow
Yeah.
That's a big dream, true. And and even my my parents it's been and then they it's been tough for them to um yeah, to to to guide me. Uh no parents I think are are really ready actually for kids that say this kind of things. Uh, so mm year after year, you know, I was having more tennis, more lessons and uh my parents did protect me quite a lot also because soon the Federation came and and and agents in another way.
people were saying, ah she's talented but she's pretty small and and also mentally she looks maybe a little bit fragile and And um so n not so many people actually believed uh I had this talent. I what we can call I mean when we talk about talent and or the good hand. But um They didn't really m see my my deep conviction, you know, and this has been
a fight, uh, for me to to I to keep my dream and not um letting anyone keep uh take my dream. So my mum was a teacher, uh so in French and history at school. I never had her at as a teacher. My my brothers had her as a teacher. And school was really important and I I did love school really very much.
uh I needed to be I'm a perfectionist so in tennis I had to do a certain way but it's cool if um yeah I had to succeed and succeed really if it was yeah my personality and And uh also we had uh, you know, her attention on this because she was reading the books all the time and reading so much and I I had this part also that was so interesting in our
uh family structure, the sport more with my dad and my brothers, uh and uh another part with with my mum so school was really, really important and uh And but for me it was yeah, natural to combine, to be good at school and also to play tennis. Uh so I wasn't going to the birthday of the of my friends, but I
Yeah.
It wasn't four years. Yeah. And not a sacrifice at all, but it's maybe uh some see it like that. For me it was I wanted to compete in the weekend and I don't say I didn't miss anything of of that but I was into it and that that was normal for me. So actually it And then I had some ups and downs in my development, that's for sure. But the fact that I would um you always go to to the next stage in terms of volume, in terms of okay, maybe now I have to m mm yeah, leave home to go to
uh to to the federation and be um and do the the tennis and academics part at the the same time. Um you know, year after year we were trying to add something but I had the feeling my parents, yeah, really helped me to do it the the right way. Even not everything was easy at home.
They took care of the human part of you, no not just like of you becoming an athlete but also like staying growing as an athlete.
¶ Personal Struggles and Path to Independence
Stay in balance. Um my my mum was especially uh taking this this role. Uh unfortunately she uh she passed away when I was twelve, so Uh that's been the first uh big shock of of my life, uh of course. And at that time there for two years, uh it was a bit uh I wanna play tennis but what d what do I give uh how do I give sense to to this? I was suffering a lot and and also p w you know, leaving uh my family at that time to go to the next step for tennis, it was really tough.
Uh so I had two years that's been really difficult until I I met Carlos that's been my coach for forever, but uh And and so my my mum was giving this to me, balance. And if we do it we do it in a certain way, we do it w you know properly. Um with my dad it was more more difficult because he was so anxious. And he was he was he wanted to give me everything he could and and he did. But he didn't believe really uh deeply in my potential. So there was the anxious part was from him.
and the structure part uh was from my mum. Both they were invested but in different uh in different ways. And then p I yeah, I had to deal with that when she passed away because then it was tough for him to uh to guide me. Um we were four at home, uh also, uh, so that was uh he had to give some energy to all o all of us.
Yeah, it's a struct forever.
Yeah. And your relation with your dad you say was getting very anxious and stressed, but in other way didn't really believe you could do it.
So there was difficulty. It doesn't uh no no it it what doesn't fit is that I have my dream as I said to you and And my daddy wants to m to play his role and he wants to you know, he he drives me everywhere, he comes to the tournaments and and he wants to be good into this, but the fact is that uh he has a lack of confidence also himself, you know, we all We all um I I think move in our life also with everything that comes from our parents and our family.
And so to manage that these years, she was a soul. I mean, completely. My mom was... uh able to balance him.
Yeah, more like
And and for him also and then at that time it became yeah between my thirteen, fourteen years old and my seventeen years old because I left uh home at when I was seventeen. I felt it was it was really important for for him and for me for our relation. that we would take distance because and also for me it's been an instinct of Okay, I wanna do this and I need to be in the environment that's gonna allow me to do this and
Yeah, you need to be surrounded by by experts, not the end if you wanna like become a excellent
In your potential. I I mean uh I have my kids today, I'm a mum and I realise as parents how hard it is actually because Of course you doc and of course you but then and you need to be very, very strong also to let them, you know, choose their direction and also
let them dream and and, you know, open their mind and you are there to guide them, but it's not uh easy every day and so We all have if we look at all I think uh are you um on the tour, I'm not on the tour anymore, uh since long time, but we all have different stories, huh? huh that's what is fantastic no yours mine but
And also other environments that maybe you you you look at them and you say, Wow, there's a lot of stability. Parents are there and it looks like okay, it's in balance. They're fine, they're they're they're structured. I mean the way it works there's not one environment that would be perfect for everyone. We have to adjust, no?
No, I mean if obviously my me I had my experience with my dad was like really most of the time I coach and was very, very involved in my tennis. Um I expressed many times that, you know, I wanted more space and I wanted to build my own team and what I liked and but many times, you know, like He was not really open to it and he was not giving me the confidence that I needed to be able to trust myself and trust like
maybe I want to do my this in my own way. So it took me a l a long time to take dic distance from all of that. And but it's true like also it affects you personally as a person to like don't get that trust from your parents that you may know how to do it, you know, like if you don't trust me, like how can I have t confidence in myself, you know?
Yeah, it's completely true. And I agree and I realize also how lucky I I was to get and and it's we cannot all do this, but at seventeen when I took the the the decision to uh I will always remember that day, because it was very sad at a certain point, very sad, because...
But for me it was like I cannot go back home today. I will go back home to pack and to say, Okay, I'm gonna live my life and I'm gonna try to really give myself a possibility but I needed to be so strong that day And maybe if I didn't do it that day, maybe it's not easy to do it six months later or a year later and you need a lot of of power and and today we have a a a very good relation with with my dad because Uh we I mean time helps a lot.
And also um yeah, you you have your own life after and you you know you are responsible for your own life and but that takes a lot of power and I and it's true that not everyone uh is in possibility to do that and you have to deal with that. But also with Yeah, I think that also w I mean for parents it's something sometimes that is very difficult. And and this is why I I think also it's very important that All the people involved in the sports world, I mean, they have the good.
No. Uh if you have, you know, the right person, the good coaches, but they have the good also the they good development because for a parent to trust also sometimes, okay, gonna put my my kid in a coach's uh hands that is an expert but also there's a human part behind you need to trust and that that's not so easy so yeah every story uh it's very different. Um Yes, yes.
¶ Navigating Parental and Coaching Dynamics
Yeah, it's it's true, but I also hear a lot of coaches. I don't know if if you would agree also with with that or not, but I also hear I'm I have my academy so I'm I'm involved into this every day. But
You know, it's it's becomes also an easy um easy way to say our parents are difficult. So parents in one way and experts and coaches in another in a and and this I believe cannot work because Parents it's it's their kid when they are young and experts it's experts, but you need t in a certain way to work
Together in the ideal world the father does the job of the father, no, which is to raise the human, no, and the and the coach uh brings a tennis part, no, and and if those two like work in the same direction, no, like one to grow the human side and the other like the technical, tactical part. Where the magic happens. I don't know.
No, it's not very...
Yeah, I don't know if you agree, but like from from the outside a bit what it looks no is that there's sort of parents who are like kind of projecting the dream no of becoming an athlete. And then like things get like so mixed, no, because it looks like it's not about the kids' happiness or human growth, but about them having success, no?
I completely agree on that. On the other hand, I believe that it takes time sometimes also.
maybe for coaches or for people in the tennis world to also guide also parents and to be also by this we cannot do that with our parents because with some parents it's impossible to do but with some parents It's still I think possible to to talk to discuss to guide that takes a lot of energy that's for sure that's what takes us probably the most energy but uh yeah it's it's a team spirit and the idea was not that easy but i keep
belief. Um I but maybe I I I believe too much but uh that that still we can do more on that to try to be by also by design and to guide in some situations you cannot do anything and that's very sad because how many kids we have seen, how many teenagers we have. Yeah.
Uh of course.
Academies no have a very like important role here, no, because if more and more kids have successful careers coming from good academies, more parents will be happy to, to let go of the kids, no, and to trust the proces and
But all people involved in in sport but also how we we give value also to the to the I think to the to the job of you know it and it starts very early with kids that are the education we have to give them when they are very young. at six, seven years old when we get the kids uh, you know, on tennis court, you need to be examples also. And and at that age it's very important uh that we give them the good education. If we
if we give them more education there maybe the parents can also in on the sports part maybe they can feel okay, I can trust and maybe, maybe, because this is very emotional, they can take a bit of distance. There is no guarantee. Uh I I I know the reality also but uh
Yeah, I guess there's parents and parents, no? Because also like when you see these parents who never play tennis and they feel that they know how to teach someone to play tennis, no? It's a bit like me, I I played tennis all my life as a kid, every day, three hours. I was like,
I lo I love tennis but I was never very good, no, and uh like sometimes uh sometimes people will ask me, Oh, like do you coach cars like how can I coach cars? You know, like I I I I didn't knew how to play tennis and I still I played every day. So how can I believe that I have something to teach her in tennis? And sometimes you see these parents who don't even know how to hold a rug.
It's a question of also how I keep distance from the emotions and how I can Here's my role, huh? It's not easy because when the emotions take uh we we discussed a lot about emotions and emotions is a big part of what we go through. And uh And it's not easy to to deal with that. But in in all these aspects on how we can be around uh the player, I think it's really what is
you know, as person around the the the player but the person, what is my role and how I can take how I can keep the right distance actually. And how I can I'm not gonna take that role or that role. For parents it's not easy but sometimes for people for also for the people around the player on on the sports pad and the expert, that's not always easy neither. I think it works. Also when everything, when every wall is clear.
Also like the player like goes through so much emotion already on court and with his goal with his his own expectation with like wins and loss like you need a stable environment with
Exactly.
Stable emotions from everyone and sometimes your coach will be able to bring you more emotions because obviously he's very involved but he has less stress than a parent, like who will l be maybe more anxious or like super happy when he says at the end maybe like not much to be happy of but And kids and the player need stability then.
Securities. Yeah.
And like okay, you won today, it's awesome and everything, but you lost it's not like a drama or
Yeah.
Evalu with it. No, he was sharing that he doesn't see himself being able to coach his kid, even though he was an amazing coach, an amazing player, because he thinks he will lack objectivity. He's like, you know, I have I have so many emotions involved when I see him playing that I cannot be objective, you know, and therefore I cannot be a good coach to my son. Several interest.
My son started at play tennis for his age and playing tennis for three years. He loves it. He comes to the academy. Academy is the second home. Uh my my daughter she's twelve, she's doing almost with relations already. It's so funny. It's really the the second home so they they like to play and and uh both of them but my son a little bit more.
And two years ago I tried to give him an advice. He was six and so but I said on your forehead and he said, Mom, it's way too long, you stopped, you forgot you forgot about everything. So I understood the I understood.
यह प्लेसे
Yeah, yeah. You at your place and he said to me, My coach is Guillaume and uh so I understood the first thing already and also now he's playing stats to play more competitions and um And I understand now about all we're talking about, about the emotions as a as a mum, because Of course I know mm mm a lot of things about tennis and I want to share but I'm not gonna share it the right way because I have my emotions of a mum and I see also my so I'm tennis is so hard, you are alone.
on the court and we all know that and you are alone and you have to find even if you have the support you are still very very by yourself on the court and when you see your kid of that age You need to be really, you need to take the distance to say, okay, this is, I mean, this is amazing for him that he's going to have to.
be by himself, find the solutions. We can support but from our with that distance I was talking about. But I can feel that's not easy. So I don't want to get involved anymore into it.
For you as a former pro player, one of the best, it's not easy for someone who is not a tennis player. Maybe the good advice is like try to stay as as far as you can from the tennis.
Completely, completely. And so that's an amazing experience for me and I understand much better the situation now and uh how hard it is for parents. So this is how we can build that big distance. But it's it's a challenge. It's a big challenge.
¶ Career Success, Pressures, and Post-Tennis Life
Would you like him to be a protagonist player?
I don't want him to be a pro tennis player but um but I wouldn't say I don't want him
If it becomes his dream.
f I yeah it doesn't happen very often first because I always say my kids I you you have to to do what you love to do. And now he's gonna start uh football in a few weeks. I wanted to to him to do another sport. It could it's football, it could be some something else. Uh, but he chose football as uh, you know, to be with uh it was important for him to be with uh. And uh I want him to do and my daughter also to do different things but
But I say I often say to them you don't have to play tennis because I have been playing tennis. And and my husband says, Yeah, but you you know, you don't underestimate
the academy, they see you there every day and they see all the kids playing and they want to play. But at the end, uh I'm sure that I mean we try because as parents uh we just understand that we do the best we can and uh we try to show them different uh I mean I I believe that sport brings like other other things but sport brings so many things to our our kids and how they can grow up to uh to sport.
So mm.
doesn't happen very often. It's if it's the case, uh uh I will have to take the I will have to try to take the right distance. Yeah. And if not the case i I mean
It has to be a natural process and whatever.
we we are supposed to be champions in something no not maybe under the but we are supposed to be i mean to express our qualities in different kind of aspects and and to be unique in so many different possibilities. So we we chose a life that okay. I had stuff, it's a lot of pressure. We we are under the lights and at some times you can do amazing stuff being away from that and and be so happy.
Uh as I I said to you the other day, uh life is very good after Teddy's life is very, very good. Even if we remain very much into it, but we can I mean I think use our experience in in so many different ways. And not be under the lights like like we have been and be so happy like in a normal life. I really appreciate now, you know, being at home and and just live with simple things.
Yeah, good family life. You don't need that much at the end to be happy and satisfied.
Oh yeah.
Going back to this like pressure and stuff, you had success quite early. Yeah. You were still a teenager almost. How was it for you when after all these years of fun and like you finally make it?
Yeah, but I was where I wanted to be, so I was connected to. It was my dream and then we we really work on a vision and and uh the goals and it's amazing, yeah, because when when I now I see the teenagers at the academy or when I when I think, wow, they don't know what And that's good actually, yeah. Because when you are that age normally you don't ask that question to yourself. You just see what's in front of you. Uh-huh. And uh
when I look back it's this that I really that I really love actually th the the whole process. I I became number one, I won Grand Slams. It's easy to to talk about that because I really realised my uh my dreams, but not everything has been easy, uh that's that's for sure. But when I arrived on tour and I started to uh to win, of course it was a lot of pressure and it's been an amazing challenge to to deal with that and what I found
Actually I I didn't have so many people around me and that was good for me. Not so many people to deal with. I've been a nightmare of the agents because they were asking me to do so many things and and for me priority was and I don't say it's easy and that it has been easy but at the end we were always thinking What is the priorities to take care of of myself in a certain way? And how you understand to say how you learn how to say no. Yeah. No, I'm not gonna do this or no, I'm not gonna do that.
And Carlos helped me a lot because he was really clear with all that stuff. that what do we want to do? Who do we want to be? You know, uh uh and tennis, I mean really and the goals I was for us more important than making more money and i it was part of the process but at the end where do you put your priorities? That question was all the time into our our mind.
And again, I don't say it was like this so natural. Oh, of course. And also with the I didn't live with the social media. Uh I live with the press, but I didn't live with the social media. I'm very happy. Uh I played on another very meal. I got really happy because This is crazy deep.
That's another story.
That's an yeah, this is tough, but the pressure comes from there, but the pressure was coming, of course, with from the expectation. It's coming from everywhere. Yeah. When you walk on the court and you have these fifteen thousand people, you want to make them happy in a certain way. You want to give, you want to So I started to work on different things um to
uh be able to live with that. It was part of that. But uh and it was more putting me in my bubble. So I f I took a lot of distance with a lot of things and and and people were saying ah Justine she's cold, she's I I completely assume that it was good for me at that time. I couldn't deal actually with that, you know, social life. uh being nice to everyone and uh giving my time to everyone and there was not possible and some people didn't like it for me but at the end
Uh I was there to do you know, to do win and to do tennis and to do m to do the job. And when I say to do the job I see it in a positive way, you know, it's not suffering. It's this is where I wanted to be. And uh I always did my job with the press. I mean my commitments always did it, but yeah, for my agents. No, I'm not gonna travel to to China to do the exhibition. No, I'm not gonna do this or do that and
And Carlos really teach me on how to say no to this and also he was telling me when you read an article in the press, positive or negative, you lose a set. It was mathematics. But it was right and I started to stop reading the press because
If it's good, what does he give to me if it's a good article? And if it's bad, that's for sure it doesn't give me doesn't m help me to move forward, but It it was it wasn't easy to to apply this and and to um but at the end when I look back and say, we have been lucky, we we could do that but uh but at the end the pressure also at the end of my career I mean, all the certain kind of sacrifices, my personal life and my own.
my family life because I stopped tennis uh first at twenty five, huh? So very young. So the pressure in a certain way was there, but it wasn't the pressure from the press or from the expectations. It was more from my personal perspective, um, well I did put away so many things that I don't want to put energy because it's too much now and I have my career but at a certain time your personal life. You know, you want to be there also, too.
to clarify certain things and to give energy also to the family and to reconnect and to understand and to move forward for me it was really important. Then I tried to come back to to tennis. I I had the injuries and everything but pressure is everywhere all the time and the environment, your environment can help. Of course, that stability And also um understand to say no, but it's tough in the and these days I think learning to say no and to choose and to is even more difficult.
Or you need to have a good team that helps you be in peace with your decisions. Because if you have agents that make you feel guilty every time you say no, at the end it's complicated. And to have a team that works everyone in the same direction is the most important thing.
And understand the personality of the of the person and of the player, no, because at the end the player the more it's the center. If the player is you know, if you are in peace, I mean in terms of human being, then yeah, you then then you can perform. If you're not Because you feel that you're not taking the right uh decisions to make people maybe around you happy, that's a different
Your team needs to understand that at the end they are there to serve the play in a way. No, maybe it sounds a bit strange but that's how that's how it is. No, you are like uh like the team
The team and all the people around and the family and everything, it's like everyone needs to g work together for the player. Yeah.
But even my my part of the family that I was really close to, my my I'm very close to my t my um um father's sisters, my aunts were very close from them when my mom passed away, they took care of me and And today we I mean it's amazing uh we we talk to each other every day. But when I was playing I was
explain to them also. I don't have too much time actually to to share with you and to uh they were here at Holongahs when I won and we could share a bit but when I was travelling all over the world I was trying to explain well I try to do my best but I cannot do better than this in terms of of my family investment today. It's important also to to be able to communicate and to say what we need or to say what we what we feel, uh that that's very important and not always easy.
¶ Career-Life Balance and Comeback Attempt
During your career you say you were like very focused on your tennis and everything. How did you try to balance or like rest mentally and
Um I was really quiet uh when I wasn't um practicing training uh but I uh When I stop tennis, you know, I it's but it's a bit the same for everyone. But for me I was really so much in my bubble. When I stopped tennis from one day to another, then the structure is not there anymore and y and you go through a different world. For me I I really felt I thought the world I mean I I thought tennis world was the world, you know, and then
Yep. Then fifteen years later but soon I understand and I've been very lucky because I I met my my second husband, my actual husband, uh father of my kids, and that's the most normal person you can you can meet, you know. And then we started to live uh really I mean, normally. So that helped me a lot in my transition to my life after after after tennis. But during my career, um I didn't
I I was really m quiet. I didn't need much actually to feel in balance. I in a certain way it when I look back now it wasn't balanced but at that time I felt
I was in balance in that life I chose at the at that time. So it wasn't so hard for me uh to now I like to to meet people, to uh to talk to I'm very curious person since I was a kid, but into my career Yeah, it was into, you know, that that bubble, priority, taking care of myself, uh, how I eat, how I sleep, uh, as soon as, you know, I wasn't um um
wasn't doing the right thing. Uh I I felt it in terms of energy and everything. So but it was easy. I I have to agree it was uh I mean to say it wasn't too difficult for me to be uh away from home or to because Because I felt okay it's like this today that's what I want to do. That's where I want to be. So I know it's not the same for everyone and I know that and and especially these days and that's very good we talk more about how I balance this.
And maybe when I look back, if I try to balance more certain things, I could play longer. Maybe that's a possibility. But physically also I knew with the fact that I'm not so tall and that the beginning not so strong, I had also to work physically. I went to the States working with Petit Tribes so strong for two, three years. I knew also at that time
Okay, now maybe I'm gonna touch my my goals, but I knew in a certain way I ask a lot to my body and maybe uh this is gonna compromise a long, long period. When I was younger I wanted I remember I was dreaming I want to play until thirty years old. Thirty at that twenty years ago at thirty it was late. It was good. Today it's very young to to stop but
Everyone is asking Carlo, what's wrong with you?
Yeah, but first you can stop anytime you choose. Yes, exactly. And uh and then also because Yeah, question of being mum or so. It's in our heads and it's completely different. And even these days, even Players are coming being mum on the tour and that's fantastic for those who believe and who are able to do it. I think it's fantastic and
But sometimes you already handle yourself it's hard so if you have to handle a little baby it's like I don't know how you could do it.
Yeah, yeah, it's uh I for me I think I I could never do that. But I admire. the the the the months that yeah, it's probably a little bit tough. So but for me, like when I was into it, um, didn't suffer too much actually. Uh
It's it was your ultimate dream at the end, no, you were dreaming about it since you were a kid. So I I guess that when it's your own personal goal to be there, it's easy than Maybe when you end up being in a professional tennis tour, it was maybe not your dream, no? Like and then you're like a bit I need that balance, you know, like it's just a job for
But being on the tour I didn't I didn't it's not I didn't like it, it was part but I wasn't there to be where with people and to I had only one really good friend on on the tour. It's Nathalie Dechy. She's uh she was really uh we could share things, we could uh spend some moments for the rest. During the conference, I'm not there. Maybe it seems a bit cold for me.
Because now these days, everyone says that it's French for itself. I don't believe a single second on this, but it's this world also today that we need to be good with everyone. I don't think it's possible. And for me... It wasn't really what I what I was searching for. I was there to play tennis. So it was easy for me to come back. I was doing my job and then to come back to my my small bubble. And also my my relation with Carlos was a very good thing.
I mean was we could share so many things. We we did like these moments. They were quiet. A good restaurant in the evening and and laughing about so other things than tennis and about the tour and And just there was enough actually for for me. So Different for everyone then.
when you came back?
Yeah.
You were doing the s things the same way as your first career? Or you were exactly
I hope change I did hope I could do it differently. There was really also my um Because I felt sometimes in your life, uh it's probably maybe what you you feel uh at the moment that you have different kind of needs, no? You it's sometimes at a certain age, uh That's what I felt actually when I stopped tennis for the first time I I felt I need to be in my family now. Uh it's important for me to fix these things. And then I started to miss tennis uh a lot and also
I was asking myself the question, am I able to come back now to the tool that I'm more balanced in my family life? I fix a lot of of things and it looks like more healthy today and I want to try to come back with that uh new idea. Um I came back with Carlos. Maybe we could maybe I could do it in a different uh way. Maybe I need it um
Yeah, to to have another another point of view, who knows? But I'm not the kind of person who live in the past and say, Ah, I should have this or that because if we do it the way we do it's because
We felt it our way on the moment.
And you will never know if it was a good one or a bad coin.
Maybe it's you do with what you have now at that time, huh? But it's you do the best uh actually you can just at that time and and we tried and we came back and I played the final at the Australian Open on my second tournament, so I was in radio. It wasn't too bad but uh but physically I felt uh it wasn't uh the same, my body wasn't uh accepting uh also um anymore the way I have been working okay for so long and then I started and then I yeah, my my elbow was really uh
I was suffering so a year later after trying to come back after six months of injury. The doctor says it's it's it's over. But I will never regret to that I tried. Work pretty good, but I can I I didn't go yeah, I wanted to go a little bit further. Uh physically I haven't been able to do that, but um that's life. Two weeks later I was meeting my Husband. If I was in Australia maybe I'd never meet him and that's that's life. You have to accept Yeah. Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, it's good cr it's good crazy, but sometimes the timings in life it's quite something.
¶ Strategic Play Against Powerful Opponents
And um when you were in your career, especi uh at the top, you were competing uh against uh all the girls who were like it was a moment where tennis was becoming better athlete, like taller, stronger and everything. How did you manage to compete against those girls?
Hmm. Uh, it's true it was uh when I arrived on the tour it was really the time of uh Serena and and Venus and others, but Yeah, I really and and there was I did love the time I was playing tennis because uh you had so many different kind of personalities and so many different types of uh of games. And uh for me coming there uh one meter sixty five
Uh, but it's been the challenge of my life. My first to final tournament I was six and I was playing a girl that was much taller than me and people around the court were laughing, say, Ha ha this little girl is gonna do against and for me I always also took that as a as a game, mm to say, I I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna I mean, of course I was a bit uh afraid and nervous and I have been scared about uh
about my conference also. It wasn't that easy, uh, to uh when uh against Serena, for example, the challenge it has been for me to really take my place on the on the court and uh use my qualities. But I I started to to work on that since I was a kid and to say okay I'm quick, I have a good eye. Uh technically also I can compensate uh a lot. So we always um try to develop more and more my qualities. I couldn't be taller, so I had to play well this.
He was still laughing but he wasn't laughing.
And um and it's always a challenge to uh I mean but for me it's what what is funny into this is is this. how I'm gonna do with my qualities because you can always look at what the others have and we don't have, but we really have been focused on uh working on my on my strengths. Doesn't mean that uh because at the end physic physically maybe I could hit almost as hard as Serena sometimes was doing because could take the ball early, I had the right timing technically I did this and
But it's more mental on that part. It has been really mental also to say, okay, I'm... Yes, they are taller, uh, but I'm gonna find a way. Uh I can run good and that's gonna be my uh my goal also to make them move, to take the ball early and and to take the ball early, that's that's image of We had a big discussion with Carlos one day. I was ten, I think, uh and it was uh just before the tournament of Dubai.
And I lost against Kim for the I don't know how many times, but three and two or three and three it wasn't a match that I could express myself and I was four meters from my baseline and Carlos we had the discussion of Okay, mm, you're a very good player now, but if you want to go you're gonna need to take your responsibilities and what makes you, you know, the the y the elastic band keeping you away from the baseline and
We started to work on that. And because when you don't take the risk at the end, you know the issue. maybe you're not gonna be good enough because there will be someone in front of you that's gonna be still better than you and and this in my mind I it worked I mean worked pretty well to say, okay, I s I understood I wanted to to take that risk to see
if I was able to provoke something something more and that they worked pretty good. So I could finally find I take my place on the court against the the taller girls more powerful than uh than me.
And for me it was funny to be the the small one. But use my my qualities. I'm I'm I'm happy. I'm I'm I wouldn't say proud, but I'm happy I played a different kind of game as many of the players. That's what makes me Yeah, I I liked the way I was creative and and to bring something different it was something I did like a lot, yeah.
It was nice to watch where you were always going to the net and like obviously like bringing the slice in the back end because of the one ended but like trying to be a lot at the net.
Yeah.
I have some memories, like I'm when I I'm seeing the first time I came to Philippe Chatrier I had I had tickets with my parents and you were playing. Yes. Yeah. I was you were playing, Andrew I guess he played also and Roger Federer. I think he still had a little uh So it was like quite funny, but then on T V I always remember like you were going a lot to the net, so I really liked it. It was fun to watch.
But it took me a while to uh doesn't come like this, huh? It's uh it's it's a long process, it's long uh it's a lot of hard work, you know. But it's how you are connected to the girls. For me, it was always this.
¶ Belief, Coaching Philosophy, and Future Aspirations
And that helped me to yeah, to go to different um stages. Uh but I missed something also of I mean from my career there you know, uh stuff that I wanted to do and then I haven't been able to do. Winning Wimbledon for example, I've been two times in position. Yeah. And it's amazing on how Wimbledon I never had the the deep conviction that I could win Wimbledon um because I always thought
I believe layers that are taller on grass. My first grand semi final it was against Venus over there I was nineteen and it's not a very good memory and didn't have good experience in that final. My my grandfather passed away also that day. And that bad uh memory stayed actually. And I never been able to believe enough. This is why belief is so
This is the key uh also into this. And uh and if you that's true when we were talking a bit earlier, to have the right people around you that believe in your potential and and really uh guide you into these convictions that makes the whole difference. And Wimbledon, well, I couldn't
Yeah, because your game was uh a good match with a Even being there can be a good thing.
Yes. Sometimes you can be your worst enemy, it's true.
It's true, huh? So it means that really what we bring uh and and how we can change this actually, how we can change the way we we think. That's the hardest, but sometimes it makes a a huge difference, I think. Bye.
Yeah, that's what makes sense at the end. Going back to the roots, not to take care of the like as a whole, of the human being. Like not only like the tennis and the athletics, but like the mind, the ability to think for yourself. No, I think that's like gonna be super important. Especially in a game As tennis where you have to take so many decisions.
Et ça va vite, oui. Mais au final, pour 10 ans de vie, c'est comment nous pouvons nous prendre soin de nous.
Yes, but sometimes if you play football, for example, you enter a team dynamic. you know where you have like they tell you how to practice, when to practice, blah blah, no, but in tennis you choose your coach, you choose your physio. So to develop this ability, no, to understand what is right, what is wrong and to think it's like It should be like priority number one, I guess.
You never really wanted to coach top level? Two level? David with Elena as a consultant.
as consultant but I for consultants yeah I still you know I don't believe that you can in a few weeks really bring or add something. I need that. I think that you need to know the person we have been talking a lot about the human being. And you need to spend time, I mean I believe, because you were also talking about about uh knowing the person about love also, you know, you need to it's also n the the
the time that you invest to understand, to respect, to respect is the base, but but uh and and yeah, I I think that you need to really give a lot from yourself. That takes uh that takes time. uh to understand the person. It's not in a few weeks that you can come and say, Okay, I gonna do this, this, this. No, we need all of us a lot of humility for for this. Uh and I don't believe with just some advices you can make the
Magic that some magic potion.
We would know it, huh? So and actually and we don't see so many stories like this that in four or five weeks, uh, because of the surface you have experience on clay, we're gonna take you on clay for four weeks. It's not I believe it's not working like this.
Or maybe we'll walk once in a while but it's not like consistent.
Yeah, that's right. So so for this I would have to give really a lot of of of my time and when I stopped my career Uh I had my academy already. Uh and the the development of the the young kids and the teenagers is something that I really, really love today.
It's where you can have the biggest impact at the end, no? That's where like everything is still to be made, no?
Yeah, I believe. One day, maybe if there's really a kid that comes from the academy, young age, that do all this, maybe that would be a good opportunity for me to do it. And my kids are going to be older also, because there was also... This traveling in twenty five thirty weeks. You need to do this to have an impact. I che I think. And uh this I didn't I didn't want to do with with my
I mean it's already the most exhausting part of being a player, so when you stop to do it again
you know because these coaches that we have seen from the the past and like it was the case from from Carlos but from others also. You're gonna not gonna see that uh very often now and you see um working more in team. Uh you have two coaches most of the time that's the one they travel part of the they they split.
Uh it's more m connected to the to our world uh to today and our way to think and I don't judge this or say it's good or not good, it's the way it's the way it is. Uh but um yeah, I don't know one day but I Also I didn't miss the tool being there. But being there for being there is not I don't wanna be there to be there. Because I need maybe it's the right person at the right moment. Yeah. And then I'm gonna be ready to to give. I think I still have something to to give.
because I do it in my academy. If it's to travel and to be on the tour, it has to be for me the right person at the right time.
Yeah, project that you really care about, yeah.
Yeah, and and that also For me connection uh is something also very true, very important and and and having the feeling you can really um have an impact and bring something. Yeah. Uh
Nice.
And this you need time to do it.
We hear that she's g becoming a coach, we have to like uh really dead on that player I guess.
I can really just do something. It's something. I can really just do something.
Very, very special coming up.
I thought we called you as agents with that time.
We come and spy.
That would be fine.
That would be fun.
Nice. Yeah, I'm sure you have a lot to bring.
We we will see. I try to do my my well, we all try to do the best every day. But what's next for you in what you want to uh to give and to bring?
¶ The Future of Tennis Development and Life Lessons
We want to continue the adventure of the podcast.
Yeah.
Um because uh it's really like becoming to have a good success and it's also a way to because I had my experience with my dad and um at the end of my career I was missing to not had the chance to have like ear other coaches. Um so and I want to share what I learned also in my in my adventure and about entourage, about choosing your own people and your own confidence.
And for me be able to like listen to other player, ex player or coaches is very important. Mhm. So we want to share that there is not only one way uh to do it, that balance is very important and you have to do it for yourself.
Mhm.
Which sometimes also I have been struggling with. Yeah. And to learn about like coaches like Darren, Ivan, Lubic to like, hey, you should do all the sports. Maybe you can stick a bit longer to school, you know? It's stuff like you're like Oh okay, why not? So we want to keep sharing.
Because you don't he hear this kind of stuff very often on the tool anymore. No
I mean me I definitely did an ear.
Well because in but if you
No no oh you're good at tennis, you have to stick to tennis and do like only tennis. Mm-hmm. Uh social life, especially when you're a kid or whatever, it's like mm, maybe you should start doing the under twelve tournament, under fourteen, under sixteen. So it like becomes a job at thirteen years.
Yeah, that's uh dramatic at least.
Left school at eleven, no?
Yeah, I mean I like square eleven. I did home schooling and everything, but I'm on top of it I was only child, so you I I didn't have a lot of contact with all the kids. Um
One stuff at that age, huh?
Yeah.
I mean, that should not be legal if you ask me.
I stopped at sixteen.
You went to an academy, no?
Uh no I was at the tennis federation between uh between uh fourteen and sixteen, so before that I was going to school normally. But even because in in in Belgium it's not the country also where sport is uh yeah, where we put it the sport is really something that you need to add to your life to develop your yourself. So
So even with the statue and at the Federation I was going to school completely normally and I was practicing uh after four o'clock. So after four from four to six we were playing tennis.
I mean we're
Yeah, but, you know... We could do it.
Yeah, yeah.
Iga went to normal school until the very end. Of course, with the help of sometimes you're traveling and stuff, but I think this is very nice for parents and also kids to understand that Of course, you have to work very hard, but it doesn't have to be absolutely everything. You still have time to spend with your family, especially as a young kid.
I mean I always remember when I came back I won the juniors here when I was fifteen. Yeah. And two days after I was at school. I had to have exam, my my exam, but I was at school and it was fantastic.
That's the way it should be.
To live this but also and to see my friends at school, even if I didn't have so many close friends, but still you are into a collection
You don't do it that way and you burn out and at seventeen you hate the sport. So at the end we are humans and even if you're shy and introvert, you still need to have like that little circle, no, to to share your life and to spend some time. I guess.
It's very interesting because you make me nothing, you know. From the past but also differently.
And like the thing is that yes, you have your story that you leave school at eleven and like life becomes only about tennis and you succeeded. But probably there's also a lot of kids that have the same s thing but they never succeeded. So probably there are like broken toys around the world.
Most of them when they're not going to be able to do that.
Because nobody nobody hears about these cases, kind of no. So like maybe it's like some parents who maybe they're not as smart or whatever, they think oh if I do this, it works because I hear this, this and this story, no? So to try to bring some perspective, you know, like on how to do it the right way or the right ways of becoming e excellent on whatever you wanna do. I think that's a good challenge.
To share your experience. No, I I I really uh I think it's fantastic to uh try to speak about this but differently with no children because we are also so different into this and and just to share our experience. So
Yeah, for me it's been a very like h healing journey to be able to listen to listen to learn and also to be able to share my story and what I learned. The toughest moment is a great moment as well. But for me it's been like really healing to be like open about it but also feeling like in a safe place, not being judged about it because sometimes it's not always easy and I always I've been struggling a bit with the judgment of other. It was not something I was dealing very well with.
Um but for me it's been in it's really being like Opening and healing and also like helping me building my identity outside of tennis player. Yeah. So we would like to continue that.
But you have to. Yeah, it's really great.
Fun project also.
And after more personal, we would like to have a little family. So, and like... Like we say it's like We both don't feel like we want to do it on tour. Mhm. We want to have time. I mean he's been travelling two years now with me but it's very intense. I mean it's very intense for me but also it's very intense. Yeah. For both of us so we're like, okay, you know what? Let's settle on settle in um
I mean so many things to do. I mean so young.
It's been a big part of my life but now I want to move on and do something else. Try to pass what I learned. Yes. But with less travelling, with less stress, was a good stress. With stress of life. It's a normal layer.
and then you will see in a few years it moves on it's very dynamic so I wish you very all the best because you deserve it
What advice would you give to your younger self? Yeah, you two are 15 years old.
To the to the kids at the academy, I mean they have. Example uh what advice I would um to believe in their dream of in their dreams, that's for sure. Um but uh No matter what it is, usually. Uh it's not not everyone becomes a champion in tennis. Uh we can use tennis as a uh it's not of course you have goals and you have uh and but not everyone can
But you need you have something to learn in into this and that's fantastic. I mean, we all can take with us all our experiences, different experiences and uh But still at the end you need to I mean, I I I believe the dreams can, you know, help you to to move forward and and and also what I yeah, just to be themselves actually. I think authenticity is something very important there. And it's not always easy because the influence is... and the influence also...
um build us uh as a human being and uh it has an impact. But uh yeah I think it's important to remain uh ourself. In my experience from what I live is uh and what I can yeah really say today is that uh I I stayed myself all the time when I was in press conference, you know, a bit not happy about the match I played. Okay. I could show I wasn't really happy and when I was really happy I could show it. Even if it was my way to show because I was pretty pretty shy also at at that time.
But I was myself and today with you I am myself actually. And this is something at fifteen that's not always uh uh easy.
Yeah, sometimes you're told you have to be like this or like that, no, and you get a bit lost on the way.
Yeah.
And uh yeah, life is n what we can say also that life is not gonna be Always easy. We need to accept what is going to be on our way and to deal with that. We have a lot of resources as human beings. So we have to count on ourselves also a little bit. That's very important.
Bye.
Sounds good.
That's a good advice.
Awesome.
Would you like to listen in the podcast?
Who did you have already in the podcast? Yeah.
Yeah. Um
So you have coaches, you have players, you have people from the environment
I don't know, yeah. Mostly? Yeah, mostly we did I would say we have done recorded thirty out of them, maybe twenty six is current players. Okay. And then on the code side we've done uh Brad Gilbert, Darren Cahill, Patrick Moratoglu, Wim Fisset. And uh evaluated. So five coaches, right?
Yeah.
And then the rest are active players.
So did you have Justin Paulini already?
In a live event with two other players. So we are the agents say yes, but let's see what timing shows.
I would like um
We are big fans of her. Yes. And actually like when she came to the we did a live episode and it was a like a very positive surprise like when she started
but it's because of the energy and I mean what she brought also
And the story is very good.
Well it's very good.
I mean
I would like to hear her. Yeah. In uh maybe in coaches, maybe Juan Carlos Terrero.
Yeah, that's quite a good one of those.
also a story that is quite uh powerful and uh with a certain vision but it's interesting to share the yeah uh the the the visions and also managing with uh with a lot of uh of things and uh Uh especially after what we with with the Netflix uh documentary. Uh but and also I w I won the French Open the the Year uh in two thousand and three when others won the French Open that year.
At the end he was like a successful player already and then he became a success.
That became a successful coach. Exactly. So these two...
Yeah, I wouldn't have to do that.
Quite good choices.
You you agree.
you've been chosen also a few times so I'm glad
Allez-y, c'est ton ami !
One year more than one year.
One year.
It took us some time to get used to the same thing. So how do you
Yeah.
Yeah, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and good luck with your future project.
Yeah, you too.
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