E35 - Bryan Shelton

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Even though you don't feel it. Eventually, if you do that enough, it'll start to change and become more natural. Now I'm coaching a player. Much bigger higher limits than I had. So I have to be careful not Yeah. Yeah. greater abilities maybe and he has more things that he can do. Make sure that you are enjoying the process because you're spending a lot of time there, you know? It's really important.

Hi, I am Caroline Garcia Hi, I am Monja Doran Welcome to Tennis Inside This is a podcast where the top tennis player Open up like never. Transland champions to rising stars, they tell their stories in their own words. Subscribe now on your favorite platform and don't miss an episode. Let's get started. Welcome to Tennis Insider Club. Brian, thank you so much for being with us today. Um first question is how did you start with Stan?

Well, that was a long time ago. Um, I was eight years old when I first picked up a tennis racket and um, you know, for me it was kind of just happened by chance. You know, I was riding on my bike and I saw some tennis courts and I saw some kids out there playing in a clinic and in the summertime and I grew up in Alabama and so I wasn't really exposed to a lot of tennis.

But I sat there and I watched outside the fence and uh the pro who was with the kids it was like a summer camp. I mean very beginner level. uh he saw me, he said, Come on out and he invited me to join the kids in the in the clinic and he gave me a racket to to to use and

and I came back the next day and the next day and the next day and at the end there was a little contest, uh a serving contest and the winner uh received a new racket, you know? And it was like a Jack Kramer Wilson autograph racket and

and I won the contest and then I was like, Oh, I love the sport you know. And uh and then I began began to play, you know and uh, hitting against the wall or anything and just enjoying the game and my mom was like She was like, Oh, I like this. This is a great sport for you and'cause I loved all sports and so I played everything. But tennis became something that I I got pretty good at pretty quickly. So I continued with it. Nice. And how was like that transition from playing just for fun?

to like start transitioning into playing tournaments and maybe trying to make a living out of it. Yeah, well for me it was it was quite a long journey, you know, because I I played junior tennis and I was very fortunate to have a coach that uh moved to our small t city in Alabama.

and he really understood the game very well. Uh the not just the physical part of the developing the skills and the technique, but also the mental part of how to manage all of these things, the emotions and the mentality of the sport and to compete at a higher level and so through the juniors. I continued to progress and uh then I ended up going the university route. Mhm. So I wanted to study engineering and so I went to Georgia Tech, which is a big engineering school in Atlanta.

Um, and I had four years there to continue to develop my game and just develop as a person and really had a good healthy experience there. And when I started on the tour after my years in college, I was able to I think manage myself pretty well just because of, you know, those life experiences that I had. as a kid growing up and learning the sport and also wanting to get a good education, going to university and and not only focusing on tennis but also focusing on other things as well.

so that when I started to play tennis uh professionally I had I had a good education also. You know, which was like almost like a safety net. Like if I didn't do well in tennis I could go back to this if I wanted to. But I knew that I wanted to play tennis at the highest level and

And so then I went for it and and continued to play professionally for almost nine or ten years. Right. And um You were sure you were going to go to university or you asked yourself the question, maybe I start to I try to go pro at eighteen? No, I wasn't at that level. I wasn't at your level, Carol, at that at that age. I was a pretty good player in the United States, but I wasn't one of the very best.

Mm-hmm. And so the decision was very easy for me. You know, I had to develop. I was still very small and hadn't grown physically, I was not able to compete with with professional players at all. And so for me the the choice was was very simple. Yeah, and it it's good after when you start to be broad like twenty two. 22 You're like a different person

Exactly. You think like going to university also like besides of the tennis growth also helps you to be more prepared mentally, like because those years at the end is the years where you're developing also like as a human being, your like personality and stuff.

It makes it easier like to handle after the pressure, the success. You're like you go as an adult more than as a kid, not to the pro tour. I think you learn so much through those years, between eighteen and twenty two, you leave home for the first time really. and you're on your own. Um and you're not totally on your own'cause you have a team and you have coaches there that support you.

Um, and you have friends that are in the university as well that are outside of tennis. So you're developing those relationships. So it's very healthy from a social aspect of really getting to know people and opening up about how things are going with you in your life and and the things that aren't going so well. You're sharing those experiences and you have success at the college level, but you also have I had times when I wasn't doing well.

And so you learn like who your real inner circle of people that you can really trust and rely on in those moments. And I think that's very healthy because on the tour, you know, you're sometimes on your own. Yeah. And it's like you're trying to figure out these things in your own head. And now you can share these things with others and kind of understand that

Who are the most important people in your life too?'Cause when you have bad experiences, it's nice to know who you can go to, who you can trust. Yeah.'Cause a lot of people want to be with you when things are going well.

And then when things aren't going well, like you find yourself alone. Like, whoa, where where's everybody? Yeah. You know, and I found that in school, like at university. I had a patch for a year where I was struggling with my tennis. I wasn't doing very well and I looked around and I didn't see anyone near me. And so it taught me a lot. And I think those type of experiences and understanding and coming through those experiences and getting back to a good th good place again kind of gives you um

I don't know, an ability to do that in the future. Yeah. You know, when things aren't going well, it's not it's not the end. It's it's just part of the journey. It's part of the process. It's part of growing up. It's part of developing. And so once you have that and you understand that a little bit better, it's easier to deal with a tour where you lose a lot of matches and it's sometimes a lonely place. Yeah. And how was uh fur the beginning on the pro level?

Was easy, it was tough uh tough moment. Um, you know, I think the professional level was amazing for me. It was something that I always aspired to get to, you know, and I remember watching as a kid, watching McEnroe and Borg at the at Wimbledon and just watching those matches and thinking, wow and then my very first experience after turning pro was to come to England and play at Roehampton.

and play the qualifying and get through the qualifying. And then I play Boris Becker in the first round. So what an amazing way to start my my professional career and and I had a good summer. I lost badly to Becker, but I had a good summer and I played at the US Open and I also passed through the qualifying and I got to play Jimmy Connors in the second round. So I mean my first two big grand slams, I'm playing Becker in one and I'm playing Connors on another on stadium court. So

you know, it was a great introduction to the sport, you know. And after that, whenever I was on a big court or a big stage, I felt a little bit more confident, you know, to be to be able to handle those things. And it also inspired and motivated me to want to continue to do well and to work hard and to put myself in a position where maybe I had some more of those opportunities. Yeah, it's true like sometimes the beginning in slam it's like

It either give you a lot of confidence or kind of give you a little like traumatic experience. When you have like the first big matches you play and you're like I just hope I I can forget about that one. Yes, and that's how I felt against Becker. You know, I look back in the moment I was so scared.

to go on the court on that day and I was mishitting the serve. Like I wasn't even hitting solid contact with the serve. My best shot. And uh so yeah, the nerves were incredible. And then same thing against Connors. It was similar, um, but I won the first set. You know, and I remember looking up at the scoreboard afterward and I saw Connors and Shelton and I saw seven six and I was like, Oh my god. And then I lost six two, six two, six two.

It happened to the all of us. Yeah, but yeah, but great experiences to to learn from and to I mean just to have, you know, because as a kid you you look at that on television and you think, Wow, it would be a dream to be there and then to actually be on those quartz. With those great legends is is amazing. It's pretty quick. What was your goal when you were as a pro? You know, that's a good question. You know, I think that As a pro

I was never ever satisfied, you know, with where I was. I mean, originally it was like I want to get into the top hundreds. You know, that was my first goal as a tennis player, was like I wanna reach the top hundred. I wanna be able to play in the Grand Slams. I wanna be able to be main draw and not have to go through the qualifying. So then you reach that and then it was like, Okay, well

I wanna be in the top seventy five, you know? And and then it was the top fifty and I never reached the top fifty so I got stuck. You know, and you know, but It's interesting now, you know, I laugh all the time because Ben surpassed my highest ranking within like a few months of turning pro and I was like, This is not fair

Well it's also thanks to you. So you know where you passed it on. What is your best memory from your like playing career on tour? Uh you know, I have a lot of lot of great memories. Um But I think for me it was the opportunity to have my mom and my dad sometimes travel with me on tour and I remember them coming to Wimbledon um in nineteen I think it was ninety four.

And actually my ranking had dropped, so I went back to Roehampton again and had to play through the qualifying after my ranking had dropped. And I had lost a series of matches in the first round leading into that. So I didn't have a lot of confidence m and m I had my parents coming to Wimbledon and I'm thinking, I'm not even in the main main draw and And I got I w I got my first win in the qualifying and then I started playing better and better and I qualified and then the next thing I knew w

we were in the fourth round. Oh yeah. You know? And so for me that was my best ever at a grand slam. And so that's a that feeling of, you know, going from like struggling

and losing a lot of matches to pushing through that and getting to a point where you know, I got back on my feet again and and felt confident again. That was just an amazing feeling. And as a player, We all know what that feels like when things aren't going well and then you find a way through some help with others, coaches, friends, family. to rise up again and get back to where you wanna be. Yeah, it's crazy in tennis house, sometimes you can just

switch. It's not as easy because sometimes most of the time to to make that good result and that switch you have like some tough mo tough matches where you go through. But sometimes it's like hard to explain on how you lost like five tournament in a row in first round and then suddenly you win like

three, four matches in a row. Like Yeah we had Chris Jubanks on the on the podcast and he said like that now he's going through a rougher patch and he's like always trying to remember it only takes one wood man.

That's it. Like uh one day will come that good match where you know you win a tough one and everything's gonna click after that. So yeah. That's the magic of tennis idea, no that uh Yeah, I love that. I love that about the sport. It gives you hope and optimism for the future, you know, always. Yeah.

Now like and then after like uh how do you come to the decision to r you retired quite young, no, if I'm not thirty two. Thirty two well yeah, back in the day like now it's it's it's called That was normal, man. Yeah, what's wrong with you? That was normal. Fair enough, fair enough. Go do something else with your life. You've been out here long enough. Now thirty eight, thirty nine. Yeah. Was it easy for you the transition from being a pro to like sto stopping

You know, I was a little bit uh concerned that I would have a hard time to make the transition because I wasn't sure what the next step would be. Mm-hmm. Um I knew that I liked working with children. So I thought maybe I'm gonna go back into education, maybe do something there. And then I got a phone call from another coach, Tom Gullickson. And uh he was working for our federation, the US TA, and he asked if I'd be interested in coming to to, you know, possibly be a national coach.

and help others, you know, and I thought, Well, that's a that's interesting. And so I had a couple of interviews with with them and ended up taking the job and got into coaching and uh which was similar to teaching I felt and so I was able to start there and uh and I've been coaching ever since. Nice. You liked coaching uh at the really beginning? I did. I felt like it was something that

Um, I needed to to obviously learn. You know, it's one thing to be a player, it's another thing to be able to help others. and um but I felt like I was always a r pretty good student of the game and really loved the game and loved all parts of it and so I had some opportunities first to work in the Federation for a couple of years and learn a lot with other great coaches that were around me.

And then I got to go and coach collegiately at the university and my first first job collegiately was coaching where I went to school, which was at Georgia Tech. And I was actually coaching the women's team. And so I was there for thirteen years coaching coaching young ladies and from eighteen to twenty two and making lots of mistakes and and doing a lot of things that, you know, that that I learned from uh as I went through, you know, as far as how to help people um develop, you know, and

You know, at first I was pushing so hard and then I realized that there's gotta be a balance. And so you start to find the balance of coaching and sometimes it's more important what you don't say, you know, than what you do say and the timing of when you say things. And it's like you might have the answer but doesn't mean that that's the time to give that answer. And so So you start learning the intricacies of of coaching and it's it's an art and uh

you know, it's not just a science. And so I think from from that point I just learned so much. And then I had the opportunity to also coach the men's collegiate team at the University of Florida, which I did for twelve years. And then along the way

bringing up my own two children and and getting them involved in the sport as well. So so I got to coach from the very youngest stages all the way through the collegiate stage. So it's been fun. Nice. So um you Coached your kids since the very beginning?

Yeah, no, we started them with with uh little ping pong paddles with their hands and their mom would you know, get balloons out and they would hit the hit the balloons with the ping pong paddle and uh And then we eventually started getting them on the tennis court. You know, my daughter at a very young age, my son was not.

He was not Ben was not interested in tennis in the beginning. He said, That will not be my sport yet. I'm gonna play football, I'm gonna play basketball, I'm gonna play baseball, but not tennis. All the American sports. Yes, all the American sports. And the team sports. And uh'cause he's very social and and so for him I thought that was maybe a better path, you know, to go the team route and not the the individual tennis route. So how did he change his mind?

You know, he was very good in American football. Um he was a quarterback on his team for five years and I think he was eleven or around eleven years old when he said one day because he saw his sister going to the tournament on the weekends and the finals in the United States, the finals are a lot of times are on Mondays. Mhm. And so if she did very well at the tournament she didn't miss school on Monday.

And I honestly think he was just jealous that she was able to g miss one day of school each week, you know,'cause she was doing well and his sister was just thought Hey Dad, do you mind if I start playing tennis with you and Emma? What? He's like, Yeah, I'm gonna give one year off from football. And I'd like to to play tennis with you guys.

Quite late at the end, I guess. Yeah, I was eleven years old. And then Till then he was pr not playing m other. He wasn't playing. He was playing in the summer camp with us a little bit, but during the year not at all. No tournaments. Um so yeah. And then he started training with us and we train very early in the mornings because I had to work all day and so I was like, Okay, but if these are the stipulations, we have to go six in the morning and we're gonna go for two hours each day.

If you want to do that, you you're welcome to join us'cause Emma, his sister was very motivated and like very serious and very disciplined and Ben's a little different. And I said, But you have to set your own alarm clock. And I'm not gonna wake you up, but if you wanna come you show up and we'll have breakfast in the morning and we'll go. And uh So he started coming down with us and we started the whole journey of his tennis as well. Well, that's six t six to eight is a

In US maybe it's more normal but it's quite early. In Europe it's like a way of torture, no? Exactly. Yeah. I think it was torture for the way to make him tough and responsible at the same time, right? Because he needs to start to be accountable for uh waking up and he's exactly right. And then it's a privilege. It's a privilege to be able to go and play and do sport and do these things. And so they kind of recognize that and

I didn't have the time. Yeah.'Cause I was with the team and I started with the team at eight o'clock in the morning and w I went until s maybe six PM and so It was difficult. I I knew I couldn't work with them at the end of the day'cause I was tired and I would be like not very patient. Yeah, you're more morning was the perfect time for me. That's uh we made it happen. Nice. And how was that uh

relation and connection with your kid being also kinda on the quote your student at the end? Yeah, I think it was You know, I was so I came from a very disciplined family. Like my dad was like very disciplined and so I think I have a lot of that in me as well, like to be disciplined and to work hard for things and to push to to always excel and and and be very good. But

um and always thinking about development. And so with the kids, I think, you know, I was able to push, but It was just an interesting dynamic having your son and daughter on the court at the same time because the two of them Fighting. I was trying to keep them both alive from killing one another. So it was super competitive because she started before Ben, so she was better than he was. And he was so ultra competitive?

and he only wanted to play like games. Like he didn't want to work on technique. He didn't want to drill. He just wanted to compete against her until he could finally beat her, you know? And She wanted to work on her game and to feel good about her tennis and everything else. So it was always just battle, you know, like I wanna play games. No, I wanna work on my forehead. No, I wanna So it was it was pretty interesting at the especially in the beginning, you know, with the two of them. But

Great memories. You know, we laugh now all the time about you know, just all the craziness of being on the court together day after day after day, you know, and the fun moments, the tough moments, I mean, they're all like moments that we cherish now. Yeah. And when Ben finally uh was better than his sister, what happened? Well it took it to it took a long time. It took a long time. I mean, even when he was fifteen they would play certain games and she was still winning, you know? Interesting. So

from the ground, she was more solid and, you know, obviously with the serve and things like that, then he had a little bit more of the advantage. But uh But yeah, they competed pretty hard against each other. And I always found that her level against him just yeah really went up. Like she I always felt like she could play any lefty well after playing with her brother all the time, you know?

But uh no, he he eventually got too big and too strong, you know, and um physically he started to really you know sixteen, seventeen, eighteen things started already on the serve, like most of and like covering the court for the boys it's very different. Yeah. On the girl side you cannot make a winner, you feel so right. Yeah. And uh f for you as a father but also like former player and coach, you wanted your kid to like

Yeah, they can still play tennis, but they have to go through university, or...? Yeah, that's what I thought. I thought that... I wasn't really thinking about professional tennis with my children. I was thinking like college tennis. Okay. My my daughter, like early on, she knew I want to be a professional tennis player. And I thought

Let's take it one step at a time, you know? Yeah. And let's develop your game in a healthy way and let's not worry about the results too much. Let's not think about points and these things that a lot of families talk about or try to strive for. But let's just really take it one step at a time to try to develop your all court game and develop you as a person as well, you know? Um

let's do it as much as we can in a very healthy way. You know? And the results when they would come home from the tournament you know, I'd always ask the same questions, you know,'cause I wasn't able to travel to the tournaments with them. Their mom took them to most of the tournaments and So I would ask, you know, what did you do well? You know, and they would go through and tell me the things that they did well. And I said, Well, what could you have done better?

You know, and my daughter would always have a long list of the things she could do better. Like she's a perfectionist, you know, and always hard on herself. And then Ben, he would tell me all these things he did well and very little about what he didn't do well. And like, come on, you lost in the quarterfinals. Like what could you have done better?

I just need to grow. Once I get bigger and stronger, I'll beat that guy every time That's a main boy. He would not take any negativity. None. He would just Throw it away. And I was always like thinking, that's not a good mentality. And now I realize that. It was actually a good mentality. Yeah. He just had this ability to communicate confidence like all the time. Yeah. And I think by doing that over and over and over and just reducing

rejecting any negativity, he wouldn't take it on. You know, even if I told him like you need to do this better and better, he goes, Oh yeah, I will. Soon as I get bigger, you know? Well you had to g you had to be confident or something will get b bigger. Yeah, that's true. This looks more like American mindset sometimes than in your European, no? Like in in Europe if you say something like this people will tell you you're you're arrogant kind of.

Well in the States is more like kind of celebrated sometimes, no? Like confident people who are like able to say, Yeah, I believe in myself and I know it will happen for some reason. Yeah. It's a powerful skill, no, to be like self confident. I unless you're stupid, which then maybe it's like a huge mistake or not talented in tennis, no? But uh Yeah, I think belief is something

that if you look around even at the players that are at the very top of the game, the top one hundred players in the world, it's something that comes and goes throughout the season. You know, they're at some points they're just naturally it's going well.

and they have this belief and inner confidence that it'll continue to go well and they start to feel the formula for success. They feel like, you know, they don't even have to talk about it. It's just a feeling that they have inside when they're going well and and they just don't even think about it too much, but it's just they're in a nice flow state. And then there's other times when it's just like they start to doubt themselves.

You know, and start to think, Well, maybe I'm a phony, maybe I'm a fake, maybe I'm not as good, even though I'm ranked high, maybe I got lucky or you know, they start to have these thoughts and these feelings inside and we've all had'em as players. And it's like, how do you deal with those things internally and turn them around so that you can be more confident and you can start to believe? Because some people think you need to have good results to build your confidence.

Well, if you don't have it, how do you get the results? So what what what else brings that confidence and that belief and what else can you focus in on to help you to continue to move in the right direction? I think

These are the things that for me were fascinating because that's where my playing experiences and having all those thoughts and then being able to share those thoughts with my players that I've worked with. So they understand you're not alone in this. Yeah. We all have this. I mean, I talked to Martina Navratilova and she had all these doubts, even when she was number one in the world and setting all these records, she still doubted herself

All the time. Yeah. You know, and Tom Brady in football said, you know, I feel like every year I have to earn my job, you know? And it's like this is the greatest of all time. You know? So Do you think in a way like younger players like um maybe they get like a lot of focus no on the skills on how to do a good forehand or good servant stuff but like there's not enough focus no on how to develop like mentally and how to handle like this kind of like confidence pressure and stuff.

I think it's a bit like kind of not like the other three things are like super overlooked, but then they arrive to the tour and they don't have the tools not to manage like all the like struggle mental struggles kind of. Yeah, I think so. I think I think winning is a great thing when you're young.

But it's not everything. You know, I think having to struggle a little bit at different places is really important. You know, and my coach that I had growing up used to say you need to play three types of tournaments. You need to play a tournament that's very easy where you gain your confidence. And you actually work on during the tournament on things that you're trying to improve and you have confidence to try them. Yeah. And it's tough to do that against tougher competition.

Because you want to win. Yeah. But so you have this tournament where you can win easily, but you can also try different things and develop your skills. and confidence in those skills. And then you need to play tournaments where the competition is too crazy high, yeah. But there you kinda start to understand

what you're missing in your game. And you start to see the other good things that the other person does and think, Oh, maybe I can take some of that into my game. And you start to recognize the things you need to work on and what you need to develop. And then you need to play that tournament where you're gonna be having these matches where you really have to learn how to compete. Yeah. You know, it's it's very close, very even level. What's gonna determine you winning or losing that match?

And I think if you play at all three of those levels You develop. And you don't go down to maybe play a challenger or a smaller tournament where maybe you could do some of those things. And so it becomes a little bit tricky to develop that confidence that you need to be able to compete and mentally be there. And I think you're right. I think focusing in on that part is something that we should do more of as coaches and as players to really work on that mentality of what it takes to really

Uh yeah, from the outside don't you hear all the times tennis is a very mental game. But then it's like okay, but like the seventeen, eighteen years old kids are not like being taught how to handle pressure, how to handle stress, how to like no like see the three sixty five of the tennis. you play juniors and you're good in juniors that mean you're gonna be good in the pros and you will if you're good in Meaning that you will win slams and everything, so it's always like

So much like so high is like the ghost and everything is so high so far. Yes. And it's It's very unclear sometime what it means to win Islam. It's like something there but you don't really know what you have to do to achieve it. Yeah. Did you figure that out?'Cause you got so close. Yeah, well no, I didn't. But I mean it's like if you look back at it now, do you see like maybe one thing or two things that were would make a difference? Um

I should have had in my game more an option B. Okay. Uh because most of the time with my game it was very risky and there were I think a lot of matches that I lost, that I could have been able to win If I have been ta teached taught to have like okay, today it's like I have to put it in. Today I have to put it in. But I never

Like my dad wanted me to be aggressive, do winners, like take position on everything. Yes. But there were some days where like either I was not feeling it, I was too stressed, and I was not able to do it. And I didn't know how to like put it in. That maybe today put it in is good enough. Right. And tomorrow I can step on court again and go to my way. That's interesting. So I think it's like

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me to other way. It was like you don't know how to do the rest. It's like Well, maybe if I spend time doing it, maybe I can learn, you know. And maybe I will use it only for five matches a year but Maybe those five matches a year will allow me to do one step more in the slams and then get the rhythm again and everything. So I think that's what. I missed. Okay.

It was learning on option B but also having someone to tell me like how to do option B and give me the confidence I could do it. Right. Because sometimes, you know, on court like when you see that everything goes wrong, it's like, Okay, I want to put the ball in and I just wanna run. But I always heard I was not able to do it.

So obviously when I had to do it on top of being over stressed. Right. So like, I know I cannot do it, I cannot do that. It's like I'm not good at that. Yeah. So I was not even taking that role. So I think that's what I mean. That's interesting. It's good. Because in Islam at the end it's so long that there is days where you're like Yeah. Yeah. But I guess the the other side of it, Caro, is that

You know, when you have conviction with what you're doing and you have an idea of what you do and who you are as a player. Yep. Um, I think it's best to have both, like you say. You can go the furthest. Yep. But if you get caught in the middle of two and you're not sure which one to go to more often

In the United States we have this animal, the squirrel. Do you know the squirrel? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The squirrel when he sees the road, he goes there and he goes back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and then he gets squashed. You know, and I always told the players

Before you start the point, have conviction with what you want to do. Yeah. You know, understand like what this is how I'm gonna play this point. This is what I'm gonna do on my terms, you know? And I think that when I think of you as a player, it's what I admired the most.

is that when I saw you you were playing on your terms. Yeah. And the other person had to respond to you and to your game. Yep. And so you got to strike first. You with your pressure, with your position, with how you played, with the way you came forward. Just a beautiful thing that you brought to our sport. Hundred percent. Yeah. But yeah, I think it's like but you know some days like Of course like probably this game style brought me a lot of things. Yeah.

But for example there's like a couple of matches in Roland Garros. One day it was like super windy, super cold. Mm. I was playing Zvitolina and I tried to play that away but she was just like getting the ball back. And it's like I didn't give my self the chance to let her win, you know? I just gave it to her. Yeah. Because like Oh I I didn't add the confidence that even if he was gonna be used like five matches a year that I could do something else. Right. No, I totally agree.

I think ev even if you don't wanna use it, no, you wanna be aggressive, like having that option, no, and having like the skill to say like oh today I'm not feeling it, I need to go like one meter behind and maybe today just pushing it, you know, like the other person is gonna be like me and it's gonna be like missing.

It's a good skill to have. The more com complete you are. I agree. And maybe also it's only during half an hour. Maybe it's gonna be like for a couple of games where you're for some reason you get your rhythm back. That's right. But you you get yourself some time. And sometimes with my game style it just went like too quickly. Too fast. Too quick. I didn't even know what happened.

And um I think that's probably what I missed to like be a bit more consistent slum. That's interesting. But yeah, I didn't have I think the mentality and the support from my team around and at that time my father to like give me more options. Right. And like Yeah, I mean I was trying my best sometime but like playing flat and early is not always easy, you know? No it's not when you're like over stressed. You also have a lot of pressure, which doesn't help with your game, no? If

Right. If you have someone like putting a lot of pressure on top of that you have to play very aggressive. When you're tied to play aggressive is not the easiest. That's true. Like me when I hear like you said talking about not putting pressure on your kids, no and focusing more like on the long term, on developing your game.

That's something you kind of never had, no, it was like a lot of pressure. Yeah. And that's tough also for a young kid. I think, you know, that's where my experience, you know, having played the game and understand the pressure that I felt at different times. But also coaching so many different types of people. You know, girls and guys and learning like how everyone's different and how they handle the different situations and how they deal deal with stress and things like that.

people like will see Ben do something like, Well, why don't you just tell him to do that? I'm like It's like Yeah, of course. It's easy to see from the outside. Just do this, you know, but it's not so easy and

Because there's stress involved. Yeah. You know, there's there's still stress involved and they think that Ben doesn't he's immune to stress and no, he feels it too. You know, and it's learning how to manage those things and with his game also a very aggressive style game and and uh it's it's not easy.

It's quite one of the unique sports or industries, no where you see like these kind of parents with no prior experience, like becoming coaches. I'm curious, you've been a great player, great coach. Um what do you think about it?

Because it's a pattern you c you see repeating and it's like hm Yeah, I think the expectations that that a lot of parents have for their children, you know, is that they're gonna just go out there and win all the time or that uh, you know, they should be doing these things perfectly, you know, at certain stages and you know, you take away like f some of the feelings of not really understanding what it feels like to walk on that court with all those eyes

centered on you and they paid the money to come see you and sometimes we go to the tournaments and the tournament director's saying, I really want Ben in the finals. I want him in the finals this week and they say to Ben, Ben, we really need you in the finals this week, you know? And then's going okay and he feels that. He's a human, you know, he's not a robot. And so

then all of a sudden he goes to the court and you can tell when he's just happy and ready to play and when he feels a little bit of that stress and pressure. And uh, you know, I don't think we're any of us are immune to that. You know, we all feel it. And so Yeah, it's interesting. I think parents, you know, obviously they want the best for their child, you know, and it's just hard sometimes for them to

without having the experience of playing themselves, it's hard to them for really put them s themselves in their s their kids' shoes. Yeah. And really feel what they're gonna feel out there on the court. And I think when you felt it you have a uh more just uh empathy. Mm-hmm. I think is the word. Yeah. Empathy for for your child and and how difficult it is to go out on the stage and always perform. Mhm. And then

You s also see all the things that they have to do off the court. Yeah. And you see social media now, which is a big part of this whole thing and the abuse that happens through social media and your kid who's very social is looking at those things as well and

They feel it all. Yeah, yeah. You know, the people that are betting on the matches and you can hear'em on the side of the court and they're just coming at you and like upset if you're winning or upset if you're losing and th you can feel the attack. You know, and it's like

There's so many different things that these players are dealing with, you know? And I think parents have to really be able to take all of that into consideration when talking to their child and And talk to them about things other than to know.

Yeah. Surround them with with experts on the on the area, no? Like if you want your kid to be a lawyer, you will send him with with lawyers, no? That's true. So if you want your kid to be a tennis champion, maybe it's a good idea to to send him with a tennis champion, no? Like oh

Or with someone who has lived then is like thirty years. Yeah. I mean you see it a lot. You see it a lot with players that you know, that are have their own coach and then they bring in someone who's also played at a high level, you know, and won championships and won Grand Slams and they join the team, maybe not as their primary coach, but as someone who can

Share the other experience of They know what it takes. Yeah, they know what it takes. They know what they dealt with. They know what it takes to get across the line to the finish. And uh you know, so it's nice to hear from someone who's actually experienced those things. Yeah. And how was the transition for you, like your so your kid, especially like Ben went to university and then make the move to go pro? Like for you was a lot of fears, was like excitement.

How how did you leave that moment? Well, it was interesting because for me, he was playing on my university team. Oh. You know? So I was coaching at the University of Florida and Ben was He had completed two years in the university on the team with me.

And so t for me at that stage it was the greatest part of my coaching career. Hm having him on the team with the other guys that I was coaching and for him to be a big part of that and to to experience that each day with him was like a dream come true. So when he left I was gonna stay on at the university and he was gonna turn pro and I was a little bit sad, you know, that

that, you know, in my mind I was like, he's gonna do four years here with me, you know? And then after two I felt like I was robbed a little bit, you know. And uh But he's like, Dad, I need to I I want to go, I need to go, I'm ready to go and So I had to kind of like give him my blessing, you know? And like, okay, go son. Good luck. You know. And he was gonna be travelling with US TA coach, uh Dean Goldfein, who's a friend of mine.

And I was jealous a little bit, like he was going off with another coach and you know. But But I was also excited for him, you know, that he was going to be able to live out his dream now, which is his current dream, to be able to play on professional tour.

and uh he was moving quickly like this. And so that's always exciting to see your child and see them progressing, developing, growing in confidence. Um being able to experience things for the first time. He had never been out of the country, you know, and I always thought that I'd be the one to take him out of the country, his mom and I, and and he went on his own, you know, to Australia, you know, the very first time he left the United States and

And then to see him like his first grand slam as a pro, really. He played the US Open before, but as a pro he He goes to Australia and makes the quarterfinals. Yeah. And it's like, whoa, what happened? You know? Yeah. How is this happening so quickly? So very proud moments, but also um, you know, knowing that there's gonna be a lot of changes in his life in a quick amount of time and I'm not there, you know, to to help him through some of those things was

was good but also tough, you know? And uh And about six months after afterward, he's like, Dad, you have to come out here with me. You know? And that made me feel like, okay, it's time. It's time. So then I ended up leaving the university and and started to travel with him full time. So that's pretty quick. Um pretty amazing. Like last uh two years ago coming to Wimbledon for the first time with him.

And uh kind of starting the coaching there here at Wimbledon and then I've been with'em, you know, now for two years on the road. So uh pretty amazing. You find it hard sometimes to like balance those two roles, like being a dad, no, for like someone who's still very young, growing, discovering life, and at the same time being the the coach? Yeah, it's it's it's tough at times, but you know, I think that for me it's just about being patient.

and to be aware. And so I'm constantly aware of where Ben is at mentally, emotionally. When he wants to talk about tennis, when he wants to talk about his game, when he wants to talk about things that are related to the sport. I'm aware of that. Mm-hmm. And when he doesn't, I'm very aware of that too. And so I just respect both. And I think that's where our relationship is healthy. Mm-hmm. Is that

When he was a young kid, I was the boss and I was telling him this, this, and this and he just had to sit and listen. Yeah. But as he's grown, as he's grown into a young adult. That's changed. Yeah, he's independent guy. Yeah, he's independent. Uh we sometimes have dinners together, but not often.

So outside of the tennis you try to do like separate lives? Yeah, let him let him live his life. You know, it's not normal for a twenty two year old to be with his mom and dad or with his dad all the time. You know, it's normal for them to go out and to experience life and to yeah to grow up on their own.

Well, we make it sustainable also, no, in the long term to have a good time outside of the tennis court. Yeah, that's important. The balance is very, very important. And so I don't ever want to impose too much of myself there. Mm-hmm. Um, we have a very good relationship and uh there's mutual respect that I have for him.

And that he has for me, and the love is there both ways as father and son, and that's most important. Yeah. And then I'd probably give him about five or ten percent of the tennis, you know, of what I have. You know, right now he's only taking five or ten percent. But it's okay. I have a lot more to give, but he's I wait. I wait. Whenever he's ready to take it. Even when he's on the court playing, I wait. Yeah. And I know when he comes to my corner

I c I know when he wants something or when he needs to hear something from me and what type of things he wants or needs to hear and I respect that. Yeah. Yeah, you need to accept his own like timings in life to to be ready to grow, to learn new stuff. No, like if you push too much, it's gonna be like a rebel and like live live it. Yeah. Yeah. And he knows me so well that

You know, everyone says, Oh, you're smiling all the time when Ben's playing and part of it is like it's an amazing experience to see your son out there on the court and playing and you think about like I pinch myself, like, is this really happening? You know, and so there's that. But then there's also just the thought of what do I want him to see from me when he's playing the game? Yeah.

I want him to understand it it's a game. Yeah. And that you're playing a game and you should be having the time of your life out there, you know, and having fun. And so when he sees me and he sees m that I'm enjoying the experience, whether he's winning or losing Then it kinda reminds him that it's not just about the result. Yeah. Yeah, I want the result. We're competitive, you know. But

There's more things to life than just the result. Absolutely. Yeah, when you're a player and you're in the middle of the court and you watch at your team and you see like

desesperate faces or like tension or like unhappiness or like frustration, it's like it's very tough because you're obviously trying your best. It's not like you're doing mistake on purpose. And it's like But I think one of the things that strikes me the most when I enter, like it's at the end that I'm not I'm not part of the team, but like the team is there to help the player, no. Like you're there to to serve the player, no, in any way they w like first to achieve their goals.

And like a lot of people make it about themselves, right? It's about I I need to win, I need to, you know, like oh, like why did you miss? Why did you play? It looks like you don't wanna win. It's like well Try to understand why, right? Because like at the end we are here to s to serve the person, not to rejudge them or right or even make it worse. I think part of my my thought for myself and for the team is that We also want to model the behavior and the feeling that the player

could look at and say, Okay, that's what I wanna do. That's how I should behave you know, I should be enjoying this. I should be excited. I should be having fun out here on the court and So I want everyone else to f have that look and have that feeling as well so that we're all together in this, you know? And I think parents sometimes are like, Ah, his attitude's not right, you know, and they're upset about it and like Well, why? Yeah. What are you projecting to your son or to your daughter

that they're feeling the stress from you because of that. And it's like I tell the player sometimes you have to fake it until you make it. Act like you feel confident. Just put a smile on your face, even though you don't feel it. Eventually if you do that enough, it'll start to change and become more natural. And the same for the team. It's like We have to bring this even if we feel nervous or we feel this or that. You know, that's normal. Yeah. But don't show it.

Yeah, when you start putting bad faces you'll you go like down the ra it it ends up in a pretty bad spot. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because I feel like when when Ben makes a mistake on the court and if I look around, I see a lot of eyes looking to me. You know, if I look in the the spectators, they're looking at me like how is he gonna respond to that?

And you realize like, wow, they're looking. And maybe Ben's looking as well. Like how are you gonna respond to that mistake I just made? Mm-hmm. It's okay, man. We all make mistakes. Yeah. Next next one. Yeah. What are your thoughts on on co on on coaching? During matches. Well, you know, I come from university tennis. True. So it was something I'm very accustomed to on the court. But I do have a conflict with it because I think that

One of the things that I've always loved about the sport is that you you do have to learn how to problem solve and you do have to learn how to make adjustments yourself out on the court. And I think that's a beautiful part of the game. It's the history of the game is that you go out on the court and you've got to figure out how to compete against the other player and you may have your plan A, but you know, if things aren't working, what adjustments can you make during the match?

So I think that's a big part of the game. And uh so And I think that people can overcoach. Mm-hmm. You know, and And they can actually get in the way of their players progress. Yeah. And so it's like I think the coaching part is like I said, it's a little bit of an art. Mm-hmm. You know, it's not I mean we very rarely say much that's technical during a match. Mm-hmm. You know, it's really just trying to get them in the right mindset.

the right frame of mind to be able to be able to express his talents the best way out there on the court. Mm-hmm. And to give himself the best opportunity to compete at a high level and get lost in that feeling of competition, which I think is So much fun. You know? And so if you can get lost in that and just enjoy that process and that battle with you and the other person out on the court and

You know, just understand that person's worked very hard and they're a very good player over there, but so are you. And let's see what happens, you know, through this next two hours, two and a half hours, three hours, whatever it is. It's like That's fun. Things can change a lot in three hours. And uh if you have especially if you have the right mindset and the right mentality out there on the court.

And even if it doesn't start the way you want to, there's a lot of different ways to win. You know? And I think that's the fun part of the sport as well. Nice. Yeah. I mean I completely agree on the f like to come back a bit on earlier, like when you say like when you're a player and you look at your box Like for me, the experience I had with my father and then when I had my last coach Bertrand also like when Borja joined the the box

It was very like two different experiences and most of the time as I was already very stressed on court and sometimes like I was seeing my dad like very close, like very like straight it was like even like tightening me yeah up more. And sometimes also when you do a mistake at the it's good to laugh about it. But I never felt like I could do it or I was allowed to do it. And then when I was with Bertrand and after even more with with Borg I was like

You know, even like, okay, that was ridiculous, you know, you have just to laugh about it and you know like nothing is that way. You know, it's like sometimes it's just like what was that, you know? And um and sometime it was like at the beginning it was like I cannot do it, you know? Like practice is not supposed to be something fun and matches neither. It's like laughing is not allowed. For for you tennis it's always been much more than tennis in a way. Like

you have like the world in your shoulders, no? It's like if I win I'm a decent person who deserves love. If I lose I'm a piece of shit. you know, and like I'm not getting love, I'm just getting bad faces. So I think that makes it very complicated also to enjoy. Like it it was too complicated tennis for you.

But as the first person like who tried to like bring smile and laughing already on practice, you know, because it was like all about seriousness. Yes. And it was like it was tough, you know, to like let it go. Yeah. And after it's true, like sometimes it's just it's better to laugh at your t at your senior. And sometimes I I was I I was like Like look, I'm not gonna give you any tennis stiff because I have known to give, you know. I tried ten years and I'm I suck at it.

as you saw. I'm bad. Come on. I'm terrible. But you know, I come from business I and doing things with a light mood, with with with happiness, with joy helps, right? And she was like, No, this has to be you know like like serious, you cannot laugh. It has to be like every mistake you have to break your racket, you know?

So I was like, okay, we have to start a podcast and we have to start bringing like people who actually like know that's so good. Yeah, like we started to bring Darren Cahill, uh Ivan Lubic's, you know, and everyone's like they talk about balance, about like playing for the right reasons, no and It it's good it's good to know. At the end I think if you think you're curing cancer when you're on court, you know, it's the pressure is like huge. Like some lightness ha then you have to work hard.

We've always said, you know, want Ben to be able to express himself on the court in a positive way. You know, and people respond to that. People like that. You know, he's he's authentic, you know, it's just who he is. He's not even putting on a show, it's just really He's a showman. You know, every time he's upset or he's happy or he's whatever, it's just his emotion that comes out and he just he's always shown that emotion. And so it's a good thing.

But as we try to help him to progress and develop and and go further with his game, you know, it's like finding a balance, you know, of like, okay, we gotta put in the hard work. That's gotta be there. Yeah, and that's non negotiable, yeah. Okay, now you can relax and you know and so it's Even through a practice it's finding those balances so that he's

He's where he wants to be. I want him to love to be on the practice court. I want him to love to be on the match court. That's important. And if we lose that Yeah. We're gonna lose a lot. Yeah, long term the like the train is gonna crash. Yes. So I think that's important because this job. Right now the way the tour is set up with so many weeks on the road and so many tournaments that you're mandatory that you have to play and some of these weeks go in longer to two weeks and

you know, it's it's a lot of time of your life that you're spending, you know, in this arena and it's not always easy, you know. So to make sure that you are enjoying the process, mm-hmm. Nu är tips SMH. Du kan alltså bli Sveriges nästa tipsmästare, hel själv eller tillsammans med ett lag. Allt kan hända. Nu kör. Stryktipset är ett spel från svenska spel, Sport och Casino för dig över 18 år. www.linjen.seon Saturday. Vings Hotell för familjer har allt som gör det svårt att åka hem.

Stor rum, prisvärda matpaket, fina poler. Och mycket. Med oss reser barn från 995 kronor. Du inte vill hän från på. That's a good advice for young young players coming up, you know, to try to to find that joy, to c find that balance and and to enjoy what they're doing. To not l not lose the perspective, no, like how cool it is what they're doing. Yeah. And try to find ways to keep enjoying it. Yeah, and I think for coaches it's also balancing the practices and the training to and

put some fun things into the thing. You know where they're working on some fun shots, you know? And

and and doing something that maybe they're not gonna do so much in matches, but it's just something that's fun. Even at the university we always had some games that we played the guys loved or girls loved and You put that into the practice and then you put some serious things as well and you kinda balance it all together and you become a little bit more well rounded, but you're enjoying the process and it's not just a grind every single day, just grinding.

I mean there's some players that like to grind, you know, and other players that that don't like to grind so much. And you gotta find out who who am I working with here and how do I get the best out of them. Yeah, you need a ton of empathy, you know, at the end to understand like What kind of human you have in front of you, you know, and what's the best way for them to understand what you're trying to communicate? Yeah. Yeah, sometimes it feels like on practice code.

like as most of the time your time is maybe limited on practical, like you cannot spend maybe five hours. Like you have to do things only that you're gonna be doing or it's useful and everything is like Some tr well like you say, like doing some fun exercises or shot like you're never gonna do is like a lost of time. Even if it's fun and you're true, you felt like time went like this when it was half an hour on crawl.

It's like sometimes it feels like everything has to be like useful, like have a purpose. And it's like it's true that sometimes having fun and like playing a game that is use is useless but it's fun, it's like maybe it's good. I think I think it is. I think that

the development and the growth. I think some players they start to work on one thing and they want to perfect it in that day. Like so they just keep doing it and repeating it again and again and again. Oh one more, one more, one more, one more, one more. And maybe in that day they they improve that one thing, but when they go play

their game doesn't flow. Yeah. It doesn't all come together because they were so worried about hitting the ball or doing one technical thing and they got stuck in their mind with that one thing instead of having this well rounded array of different things and you start to over time you improve all those areas a lot quicker and you can implement them in your game when you're playing the game.'Cause There's hitting the ball and there's playing the game. It's two different things. Yeah.

And there's some people that are great hitters and there's other people that are great players. Yeah. I always prefer the player. I always prefer the player. What Bud Gilbert also says, you know, winning ugly and uh being a good competitor, yeah. Yeah. There's so much to it, you know, and I think that a healthy, happy person is gonna produce the best results. Yeah. Well Dominique Dominique team, we had him a few weeks before retiring.

Yeah, and he was s he was blaming like even his injuries but especially the last years like to the fact that he was not ever ever ever able to find that balance and that j joy, no, while he was playing. He was like, This is why I'm retiring and why the you know, like since I won the US Open it it's not been that great, you know. And he was saying like I think Roger, Rafa, uh, Novak they're able to play like for so long.

Because they have that balance, they have that that joy that, you know, like not everything is about tennis and that makes them uh able to have fun like for such a long time. Yeah. That's a good point. It's a good point. How can you coach a very aggressive player? How can you... What do you have to accept and how do you have to make it better? Yeah, I think that, you know, mistakes are gonna be part of the game. You know, I think when you're searching to find your upper limit

I think that's the fun part, you know, for the player that is aggressive mindset is finding their upper limits. And Ben, for instance, he loves to explore that, you know, like what can I do? What is my upper limit? Yeah. Um

And I think that, you know, we have to sometimes endure some mistakes that he's gonna make out on the court. You know, one of the things that I've found as a coach that played is that I had certain limitations mentally and physically with my with my game, you know, and that's probably part of the reason I never reached the top fifty.

And then I'm coaching a player that has much bigger, higher limits than I had. So I have to be careful not to put him into my head. And I have to realize that he's different. And he has greater abilities maybe and he has more things that he can do and so So I have to be careful not to put him in a box. Yeah. And I gotta allow him to do some of these things. Sorry. Because maybe

Maybe his way is the right way. You know, and and so so I'm careful not to try to squash you know, his talent or his expression or his ability to play the game. and not not limit him in any way. But at the same time, you know, we're trying to grow the bottom as well as as push the top. And so right now the bottom is still a little bit low for the for as far, you know, as high as the top is. And so I think that's the challenge. Interesting. It's like how can we eliminate the bad days?

the days where he's losing matches that possibly he could win and still be able to play the the great matches. Because right now he comes to the Grand Slams and whatever switch he turns, he starts to play his very best tennis. Anytime he gets to a grand slam and then he has the opportunity to play the top players, he's playing very well. Um

So it's just how do we increase the bottom level? You know, for me as a coach I think that's that's the the challenge, you know, in working with a guy like Ben who's very, very aggressive. But I also was an aggressive player, so it's kind of my mentality too that I want to be able to control play on the court, you know, and I I want then to be the one dictating, you know. We played Alcaraz at the French open this year.

for the first couple of sets, Ben was the one dictating play. And I think, you know, playing a guy like that and he's having to respond to you I was a pretty nice position to be in. Yeah. You know? And that's Ben at his top level right now, you know? Um, and like I said, when he's there You know, it's great. Um but there's times when he goes past that limit and then goes and shoots himself in the foot, you know. And so he doesn't get to the second or third round or in a tournament, you know?

you have to allow this to happen or to not like limit the growth, no? Like maybe you have to give up a bit the short term, no, and accept that maybe someday it's gonna be bad. But overall will pay off because he will learn from there and like his li high will keep raising, no? Yes. I mean I still want him to do things and if he

makes mistakes and then he stops to serving volley or he stops to mm to want to come forward or stops wanting to use his his slice or his drop shot or doing some of these things that I want him to continue to develop. And we say, Oh you're missing that, don't do that anymore. Like no no no no no keep doing it, but make the correction. No, you did this with the volley and you played to the open court and you should have kept it behind the guy and next time just.

Make a different choice. But the the effort of coming forward that was not your mistake, you know? Yeah. It was a good intention. It was good intention and I want you to continue to work that way and continue to play that way. And it's like continue to learn, you know, because You know, I think for Ben it's it's also learning how to anticipate on the court.'Cause I feel like the best players in the world

They understand where to position themselves at all times. You know, they they see what's gonna come before it happens. And so they're already moving to the next position. They know when they make a certain type of approach shot, the most likely place the ball will be after that and they're in position to make that play. Especially in my day when Edberg and Rafter and these guys came forward a lot, you know, they understood

what the opponent was gonna do. Yeah, they read the games. And they read it and they see it. I think Alcaraz and Center and these guys as well at the top, they see the game. They're very fast and they move very well, but they also anticipate extremely well. They know what you're gonna do, yeah. And on that mo on those moment where you like have those slows and bad days and you lost early in tournaments. Like sometimes as a player you may get affected by it. Um

And sometimes like media start to judge you and start to sometimes judge a coach. How can you like how do you leave those moment? How do you f try to not get your player affected by it? Yeah, I think for us it's it just depends on the mat Um, there's certain matches when Ben plays very poorly. And we come to the the gym afterward and he's doing his cooldown or he's just sitting there not doing anything um just thinking about it. I tell him like we're gonna throw that map.

In that garbage right there. And we're gonna light a match and we're gonna burn it. And we're not gonna think about it again. Okay? Let's go. Put that one away because there's nothing there for you. Okay. There was nothing there for you. Nothing there for you to take. There's some matches where it's close maybe or there's something to learn, something to gain from the loss. And it's like

maybe not in the next hour or two after the match, but at some point he's gonna wanna talk about that. And we're gonna talk about it. And he wants to resolve it in his own mind. Mm-hmm. and find like what could I have done, what should I have done, what will I do the next time I'm in that situation so I don't feel this again. Mm-hmm. And so then we'll go through it and make the corrections.

of what are the some of the things that he could have done differently in his preparation and our preparation before the match,'cause I always take responsibility too, you know? Um, so what could we have done different in our preparation and what could we have done different during the match to to get a different type of outcome? Um And then once we see the corrections and visualize like what could have happened and what should happen.

Then we go back to resetting and we go again. Yeah. And it's like fresh again, you know? But you've gotta kind of resolve that in your mind and have peace with it and then you can move forward. So then there's those matches. So some we throw away and some we we take and we we we really digest a little bit and and we learn from it.

And I think that's part of the process. And I told Ben, like, as a pro, I mean, I've lost so many matches when I was playing, you know, and that's part of the process. But I had some of my greatest moments after losses. So and Ben has too. Some of his best results have come after a week where he didn't play well. So I always remind him of that, you know, like he lost in Mallorca. But you did the same last year.

And then you were in the fourth round of Wimbledon and you were playing very, very well. Australia you lost early in Auckland. You went to Australia, you're in the semifinals again this year. You know, US Open you lost in Cincinnati early. So just bring back all these things. This is what you do. You respond. You are Like we have like uh a donkey. And we have a racehorse. The donkey, if you kick'em, they just don't do anything. They just stop. The racehorse, you do this.

They take off. Yeah. Until Ben, you're a racehorse. When you feel something, you're ready to take off again. You know? And I think that that's how he kind of sees himself as well. Nice. That's cool. I think we're getting close to the end. Close to the end, yeah. Okay. What advice would you give to I don't wanna change it. Okay. To we always ask what advice would you give to your younger self or young players? But I'm curious what advice would you give to young to parents of young players?

that other kids are trying to make it, what advice would you give to them? You know, I think that the way that I've always parented and the way that I've always coached is I always try to ask the question. And it's a different way of approaching and teaching your kids. How to think, how to solve problems, how to get to solutions and resolutions, how to grow and develop. Because if we're constantly telling our kids what to do, how to do it, how to do it better.

it's very becomes us. It becomes our thing, not their thing. And for the for for your kid, what what one thing that I really want and my wife really wants for our children is that they feel strong within themselves. Nice. Internally they understand who they are. and why they do the things that they do and and how what their goals are and the things that they want to accomplish for themselves, not for me, not for their mom, not for someone else, but for them. And so by asking the questions

it it allows them to start to think for themselves and start to become confident in who they are as people. Yeah. And then obviously as tennis players as well. And so You know, that's the advice I give everyone. It's like it's just my approach, but I feel like it's worked well with the players that I've worked with in the past and it certainly works well with my kids.

It's just ask the questions. What could you have done better? What what what is something you want to accomplish? How did you feel out there on the court? What could change that and get you to a better place?

Like what are some of the things you felt like you were missing? Um, what are some of the things that you're feeling really good about? Like w where do you gain your confidence when you're out in the court? Like how do you when you played your best in those matches, what did we what were you doing beforehand? What did you eat? What did you think? What did you s how did you sleep? What did you do?

'Cause I want them starting to put like an association with certain behaviors that lead to certain performances and just a way of feeling good about yourself. And so I think that you know, less talking down to your kids, more trying to get them to engage and to take responsibility. I think that that's that's a healthy approach and that's the advice I'd give. Love it. It's pretty good. I think it's my favorite advice so far in the podcast.

Thank you so much, Brian. It's been an honor. We are big fans of the Sheltons here. We're big fans of you guys as well. So rooting for you, yeah. I'm excited for you guys and just the future for you. Yep. It's gonna be bright and be healthy. That's great. so you don't miss our Nu är tips SM här. Du kan alltså bli Sveriges nästa tipsmästare. Helt själv eller tillsammans. Allt kan hända. Nu kör vi! Ett spel från svenska spel, Sport och Casino för dig över Attornå.

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