Dermatology with Dr Leona Yip

Apoge Production.

Hi. My name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses.

I'm grateful for the person that I had the opportunity to be, so.

I hit it and parked it for Nelly four years. We always have free will, We always get to choose. We are autonomous.

Hi everybody, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness for Nurses Today. I have the fabulous doctor Leoni Yip, who is a dermatologist here in Brisbane. We have literally been pinpals and haven't been able to catch up for probably the last six years. I met her through another very good friend of mine, Katie, who did it a sort of like online introduction as they'd worked together down in Melbourne. So thank you for taking the time to come and have a chat.

Thank you for having that.

Is so lovely to meet you finally after five or six years texting social media messages and you've been virtual until right now, right now.

It's crazy, isn't it.

Yeah, you moved up from Brisbane from Melbourne.

Sorry how long ago?

Actually we moved from with my ex husband and my children. We moved from Melbourne to Canberra for his job that didn't really work out. So we were there for five to six years, and unfortunately went through a really difficult time with how his job turned out, and we ended up in Brisbane surrendipitously because there was an offer here and I had only ever been to Brisbane once before that I knew nothing about Brisbane, and so we took the chance and it's worked out quite well. The kids

Did you find it easier to make connections and networks here in Brisbane or you already knew people up here.

It was an interesting time because COVID happened.

So we moved here in June twenty nineteen, I think, and it was re establishing myself in a new city, and by that stage I was already out for quite a few years. So I was a senior dematologist and coming to a new city where no one knew me, including GPS patients. And there were some quiet, hurtful commands being made when I was establishing myself here, like why are you so easy to get into? My dematologies has

My letters backter.

I've been writing the letters the way I've had for the last few years and had no issues. So just teething issues in a new city, people trying to suss me out. I'm trying to suss the system out. And yeah, it took me a while to find myself. But definitely people the Cambarans are great people, don't get me wrong.

Yeah. Yes. It was also very testing.

Time for us because we had purchased a house and with the move it was lack of work and financially we had a mortgage to pay, having to homeschool the children.

It was all incredibly stressful.

But after that happened, it was good that because in my line of work as a dematologist, I do medical dermatology and surgical dematology, so we could still do the bare minimum to help patients with excimil batsisis or skin cancers. So I had that outlet where I could go to work and see people and patients coming in who felt lonely, they were sad with the situation.

And just having that contact with people really worked.

It was stressful, we got through it, and I think now, few years down the track, I am happy.

I won't say it's problem free. It never is.

There's always challenges. I hate to use the word stress, but there's always stress that we have to navigate. But yeah, I think I'm in a good place at.

The moment after COVID you set up your own practice at West End, which is a bit fabulous, and I refer a lot of my patients to you, Yeah, thanks about acne and a patire and whatever, and they all say what a great face it is and what an awesome area. You must be super proud to have done that on your own.

I am incredibly proud of what we have achieved with Skin Partners, but I did not do that on my own. It always takes a village, and I think the credit really goes to the people around me. My ex husband who really supported me through, and my children the time that I have sacrificed not being with them, not being a mom, by being a doctor and essentially a practice owner, and my incredible staff. I think without them, there will be no Skin Partners. And I think that's me. I

So it is a great space. I'm incredibly proud of that.

I had a great team of architects, interior designer and a project manager as well who found me the space, and I think a lot of it was just part of me liking to be in control, yeah, and being a perfectionist, which is not necessarily a good quality. But I had in my mind an idea of how I want my color scheme to be and the space that I wanted, which you know, my brief to the architect was, I don't want the space to look medical. I don't want it to look sterile. I want patients to open

Leading into COVID, and I mean, I am going to ask some personal questions, so tell me anything ask But what I'm interested in with the podcast is you're now a single mum had a marriage breakdown. Is how you look after yourself, how you manage running a business, having staff, having two boys and they're at that age where they're super busy, lots of sport.

I'm assuming your family are still in Melbourne.

My parents live in Malaysia actually, so my ex husband and I have no family in Queensland. I do have some extended family in Melbourne, thank goodness. My ex husband and I are very amicable, which is unusual I know for divorced couples. But we essentially separate it because we've become very different people and I think that's life, and we decided that it was in our best interests and for the children to remain good friends, amicable.

We did not fall out. We still know.

We talk to each other, We love and we benter and that's fantastic. So we support each other through the arrangements with the children. It is incredibly hard and I can't say I'm still you know, I'm still struggle with the balance of it all, and I do think I do a lot with trying to be a clinician, trying to be a mother, which is another full time job, trying to be a business woman, trying to be a friend, trying to have me time. But I think being a mom,

Well in the book.

Now, when I have the kids on weekends, on the days that I have them, I'll have no expectations of doing anything for myself. It's all about them. Then I won't be disappointed, I won't be frustrated if I don't achieve anything. And that's okay. But when I don't have them. That's when I can have expectations of trying to complete a talk that I'm doing, or trying to complete a

Is a Pooh show sometimes.

So I think for someone like myself, whom I always strive to be a perfectionist, I think that's not a good thing. And in the last few years, I've embraced

And you know, when I was.

A junior consultant, I used to take things personally. We can't control feedback from people, we can't control what Google reviews are, and you know, it's hard to think about, oh, why does this person not like me when I tried my best for them, but ultimately not everyone's going to like me.

And I've learned to accept that it's okay.

And see their perception of sometimes, you know, when people come into a clinic, their perception of what they want and reality actually two separate things. They've done all this Google research, They've looked at Instagram, they've looked at Facebook, whatever, you know, TikTok, and that's what they think is correct.

When you actually tell them the truth, they don't like hearing it.

So then they come back and they might put a not so nice comment on Google and there's nothing you can do. And like my Robin says, you just got to let them because they're miserable people.

Usually yeah, exactly, yeah, you know, and unfortunately there's just the way life is hard not to take things personally. But I've learned to accept that.

Okay.

I will be hurt and I will question why this has happened, and if it's something wrong I've done or something I can improve on, great, But sometimes.

It's just people being people.

They could be unreasonable, unrealistic expectations, or they're just one of those people who will never be happy no matter how they go, and I just have to accept it. And now I've just learned I'm just going to ignore the noise around me and just let them it's okay. It's easier said than done, though, because that's to tell myself, Oh my god, I just I've read some really hurtful things that's been said about me by excident. I was just googling myself because I was searching for an article

And who would come back. And a lot of my work is the word of mouth.

So a lot of my patients have got family friends, people that they word of mouth refer, and that's great. I do find it hard when I get people saying, oh, I've come to you because I've read a Google review about you, or I've seen your stuff on social media, And I find that a bit harder because sometimes the persona that they see and the expectations they have, as

It's all virtual.

Absolutely, so I think you know, in clinic, I like the fact that a lot of my patients get along with me. I get along with them. If they don't like me, they don't come back, and I'm okay with that. You're better off seeing someone you like, you can get along with and have that rapport, and if you like me, you refer other people like minded who are like you, who like me, and accept the way that this professional

That that's just life and it's okay.

We can't satisfy everyone, and if we want to be happy, we just have to ignore the noise around us.

That is so true.

And you know what's interesting is I mean, I've my business has grown through word of mouth.

That's perfectly smooth.

What's interesting is since the TGA rulings and we've taken off all the different words, we can say, all the before and afters. I had no continue patients since end of July last year, before Christmas. Now that's a lot for one person. At the end, I was pretty cooked. By the end of the year, no one came because of social media. They all came through word of mouth.

Practitioner I am.

So you know, it's I think social media to some degree initially was amazing.

I think it is also hard double edged thought.

Yeah, I use social media for advocacy and education, so I don't advertise any of my way and if you look at my social media, they are very very few before after photos because that's just not me. It's okay if someone else wants to do it, but that's just not me, because for me, it's about educating. It's about having a voice, an educated voice that people can listen to and who can lean on and go all right, Okay, she's a dermatologist.

She probably knows what she's doing.

And I don't necessarily need you to come and see me, but just trust that a dermatologist is someone who can help you better than someone else who's promoting some product because they're getting paid, but has no special, credible expertise or experience. So for me, yeah, social media is a way to just have a presence to educate and connect with people, but I don't use it to get work.

Did you train in Melbourne or did you train in Malaysia? In Melbourne?

So I did medical school in Auckland and I followed my then boyfriend to Wellington for a year and then I got a little bit bored.

Oh I need to be in a bigger city.

I need a little bit more challenged because I'm constantly needing to be stimulated. So I moved to Melbourne, and the first few weeks of being Melbourne, I just thought, this is going to be my home forever.

And I love New Zealand. It's great.

But I also found New Zealand quite insular and the more different you are, the more difficult it was for people to accept you. But when I was in Melbourne is the more different you are, the easier it is, and the more interesting you are people who accept you.

And I loved that concept because I'm a big city girl.

I grew up in kl And, so I love the idea of being different, being with different people, networking. I'm very social, I'm an extrod. So Melbourne was my than spiritual home and I thought that in New Zealand, I had wanted to be a physician, but then I got quite burnt out working at the hospital with on calls and night shifts.

And different things.

And I had a dermatologist mentor who took me on because I said, I actually quite liked the idea of dermatology, but I didn't know very much about it because in medical school you get one or two weeks of lectures and all they teach you is a little bit about exama a libit of psoriasis. That's it, and you're supposed to figure out if you liked it. And then you know, as you get older, you just think, you know, it's just a career. I need work life balance. I need

I was like, oh my god. So I agreed to do it.

And it was a genetic study looking at the genetic basis of fema pattern helos and all of a sudden I was broke and there was uncertainty about my future. Why am I doing this for three years not getting paid and there's no guarantee I'm going to get into dermatology, but I was determined to finish what. Every time I start something, I'm de dermined to finish it.

I'm just that kind of person.

The first year I called the throwaway year, where none of the experiments worked.

I'm a doctor, I'm not a scientist.

But I was then having to pipet things, having to sterilize things, and doing all these experiments like, oh my god, this is completely out of my depth. But I was very organized because I started writing the first chapter of my thesis in my first year, which was basically just literature reviews. Was fine to do, and then things fell together. It was there were a lot of challenges, but luckily that all panned out.

The hard work paid off.

I got into dermatology the last year of my PhD, and then when I started first year of dermatology training in Melbourne, I set for the first I think it was the pharmacology exams in the first year, and I submitted my PhD thesis that in the same year, got married the same year, and then just yeah, went through that.

So do you think you got ADHD? Actually, you know what I think I do.

I'm self diagnosed and I never these days because there's so much more awareness for ADHD.

I reckon I do have ADHD.

I've come to the realization in the last year or two, and I keep saying this to some of my friends. I'm constantly driven. I constantly need to find something to do. I don't like to be bored. But you do finish things. I do finish things. I always do. I always do. If I choose to start something, I will only choose to start it if I can finish something. But these days, I find life. I go to a conference, if that talk does not capture me in the first ten to twenty seconds, I just drift off.

I'll just start looking at my phone.

My concentration span has got shorter and shorter and shorter over the last few years, and I just find it hard to relax. Sometimes it's just what I'm working on. So I do think I've ADHD. But I don't think I'm at the stage where I need to see someone to get help or.

Be medicated, because I think I'm managing okay for now. H No.

I've also listened to a Brene Brown book that I read as well. You know, I mentioned how I hate being bored I can't relax, but you know, when I'm so busy these days, being bored is a privilege.

Absolutely. Well, they say that's when you get your best ideas. It's when you're exactly Yeah, it feels imagination. That's what I'm teaching my children.

I'm trying to do a little bit of meditation, but rather than calling it meditation, because the kids now do meditation at school, so good.

It's great.

So when I have the children and I'll just before you know, read a book or before we go to bed, and so now we're just going to sit for five minutes and do nothing. And I think all of us should be doing that because it's just constant, go, go, go it is and it's okay to be bod give yourself a mission to be bored, because I think really it's a it's a privilege to be able to do that when we're constantly in such a challenging, demanding world.

Coming into Brisbane yesterday, I was sound at a conference and I met this fabulous nurse whose African American heritage.

Her name's Agnes and just fabulous and.

She's going to come on the podcast to talk about, you know, women of color in nursing. Do you feel having your Asian heritage in Melbourne probably didn't make any difference because everyone is just so, you know, and just fabulous. Did it make a difference here in Brisbane?

Do you think? I'm gonna say very suchly, but not that much.

I felt that such a Asian racism a lot more when I was in medical school in New Zealand. We don't do these things here in New Zealand, but I know there could still be some racism in areas outside of Melbourne, but in Queensland where we may still be a little bit lagging behind, so to speak. But I haven't felt that myself because to be honest, I'm quite westernice I'm a banana.

No, hang on, am I a banana? I don't know.

Chat with her my friend was actually a Caucasian and he talks about him being the other.

Yes, I'm an attic because I am yellow on the outside and I'm wide on the inside because I'm not super Asian and a lot of my friends are not typical. I don't even want the right word to say is without offending anyone. But a lot of my friends are very westernized yeah as well, and I do have some Asian friends who are strong on the Asian heritage, and that's okay.

But I think because.

I am where I am in my career, and I'm fortunate to be where i am in my career, where I think I've done a lot to be at this stage in life where people sort of know me, they know what I do, they respect what I do. So I think I don't feel it as much.

Done the hard yards.

It's been tough, but you know, I've worked. You know, some people get lucky. I never get lucky. I always have to work very hard to get where I am, and I think I will always appreciate the hard yards that I've done because I know I've worked incredibly hard to get where I am.

But again, it's not a solo effort. It's a village to do that. And do you think when you were brought up?

Because Altally Vertek has been on numerous times on the potty here like she's our resident plastic surgent, and you know she has spoken about the pressure she felt.

Being Asian from her family. Did you feel that.

My parents, who are still in Malaysia, they come from very traditional families. They are still of a very traditional mindset now in their seventies and I can never change them. And that's okay, that's fine, But yeah, interesting because my parents have never pressured me to do medicine. Nothing. My parents never pressured me to do anything, and they were just proud of what I did. And even my paternal grandparents, who were the traditional ones who really push for son

Have a secretary. They went so and so this office.

Just that idea of the corporate world intrigued me because it was all I knew. And my mum was in the corporate world too, So doing medicine was almost like a default because I didn't know what to do. There was no pressure to do it, but I just did it and I enjoyed it. And I'm very fortunate to still be in the career because a lot of doctors get burnt out, yeah, and they leave the profession they

You know, I've been too different, you know, damn conferences, and I have to say, I think dermatology is up there with some of the hardest specialties. And this is what people don't realize, all the obscure skin conditions that the skin impacts, or everything impacts the skin, or vice versa. It is so complex, and yet people think it is just this really basic special and it is not.

It is.

Yeah, it is is a really good point because there are you know, at least a few thousand different skin conditions that we see and treat. And often I find that offensive. I suppose I shouldn't blame anyone, but you know, people come to see us and they go, oh, that dermatology has only looked at us for two seconds and didn't even touch my skin or didn't do this, and they make judgments on our clinical recommendations or diagnoses. But

Be where I am.

Six years of medical school, I did three years of PhD, four years of dermatology training, another extra year of alopecia subspecialty training to get to my level. Other dorms do the same thing or different pathways. We do all of that in our specialty training. So I can look at someone even when I call them up from the waiting room they're walking towards yeah exactly, I know exactly what they have, or that talking in the consult is really

But it's not just this year. It's been for the past few years.

And I think that's going to change a little bit more, but hopefully with AI, that's going to change the way we treat things. It's going to be a companion to our specialty. It already is a companion. It should not be replacing dermatologists because you need that human factor. You need a human to have that final decision, that ultimate decision on clinical judgment and treatment. But we do need to accept that medicine has changed and we need to

They're all skin influences. And because it's so.

Accessible and it's just such an industry, there's a huge market in skin care and hair care. So yeah, that's what we're it's you know, it's an interesting conversation that we could talk about, and I'm sure it's going to keep changing in the next few years. Post Covid, I was doing tele health for particularly acne roseatua. But what

Right back to the basics. Go get geloch, per se qv whatever.

If you want to do, do nothing other than sunscreen for your skin.

Nothing. Let it settle down.

And I was blown away by some of the active and greed separated some of these products.

Yeah, yeah, I think Covid had a lot to answer for because it was when you know, the industry just went crazy. It was good in that it provided a platform for educating people about skin minimalism, you need to use less, you need to not have all these things. You know, people were looking more into active ingredients and they understood more about what active ingredients did rather than

Couldn't get proper advice.

It was all And that was a rise of social media influences throughout COVID. We saw that just when exponential and e commerce platforms selling chemical peeps to use at home skin care products, everything. So I think COVID had a lot to answer for. It was basically the boom of the social media industry, and social media influencing became a career.

And a very well paying career. I'm ad.

Yes, my prediction is in the next few years, social media influencing will be obsolete. That's my prediction because AI can generate same content a lot cheaper. Yeah, yeah, that's my prediction. I may be wrong, but yeah, watch this space. Let's see.

I couldn't agree with you more, I hope so because some of them I just listen to them and just go, oh my girl.

I know there's some who are fantastic, who are there to educate and who would say I'm not an expert, but this is my experience. If you need help, see your dematories. But there are some who will not say that. And you know, in the last one two years, we've seen twin skincare influencing. I think it's irresponsible on the marketing side of brands and e commerce platforms who do that, where they're exploiting these young ones because they're also probably

You're not going to use a sunscreen?

Yeah, yeah, the basics are not even there. It's just and the recent ten lines trend where they want to look like they've had a tan at the beach.

I know, that's nuts. That one. What is happening. I can't believe in twenty twenty five.

As a dermatologist, we have to bring back what happened in the nineteen eighties, nineteen sixties, seventies where people were getting sunburns and seeing all these skin cancers. But you know, skin cancers may be on the rise again in the next five to ten years because of this.

I was at like I was what nineteen seventy born out in the sun, but I wasn't a huge some of it because I would burn so badly with my skin toping.

I have so many skin cancers now, yeah, so many.

I've had a massive big one cut off, constantly doing e fidex on my face, like it is a a problem for me coming growing up at a farm in Queensland.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, But I think, you know, unfortunately the young ones don't realize because to them, I don't have to think about skin cancers until I'm how old. I think the messaging is so important sometimes I just say to them, now, you're gonna get wrinkles when you're thirty. Oh, so you have to twist the messaging so it makes it more appealing for them. But still it is a

There's no regulation.

Anyone can see anything, and all of a sudden, it's just explodes because it looks cool, because it's a trend. But remember that trends come and go. It's not here to stay.

But I do worry about the tanning industry, as in fake ten, with the chemicals that have been used full body people going every week. I mean, I got on the bandwagon. That's not my whole dematology business stuff. You know, twenty years ago I set up a spray tan business. Nevere poop pooed me. That's how I made money and then sold the business. But that has been inhaled and it's full body tanning. You've got to wonder about the

Yeah, I think the education about you know, love the skin you're in. There's nothing wrong with being really fair. You're still beautiful. There's nothing wrong with the skin that you're in. Really like, why do you need to look ten to make you feel like you're beautiful? What is it so you feel like you're in the French with vieria what. I don't know what the attraction is.

I think people feel, especially Aussie's, it's always been that, you know, healthy, son loving, you know, beechy sort of thing, whereas isn't funny. I look at that, you know, the red hair, the pale skin, I think, oh my god, it's divine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's like the Koreans and the China, they're all I know. My mom was an umbrella woman and I was very embarrassed about it growing up because.

My mom just put that umbrella away.

Should be like the only women Asian woman with the umbrella and the visor.

And now I'm becoming like her.

Okay, I'm getting my pigmented flat separate keratosis, my pigmentation.

I don't want pigmentation.

I think Asians are so much better at sun protection than some fairer skin Caucasians are because everyone's so paranoid about pigmentation. Absolutely, everyone wants white skin because you know, it's glorified. But yeah, in Australia maybe because it's such a lifestyle thing. It's seen as healthy when you've got bronze skin. Healthy healthier skin is when you're attend but

I was going to get my kids out of the.

School, but then I thought I'll work with the principal and the school to get them into the sun Smart policy. I guess I do a lot of media. We got Channel nine years coverage and I got our dermatology college involved in media releases, the Cancer Council and different things.

But I was shocked that it was nothing.

And the uptake of the sun Smart policy in Queensland schools is apparently really low. And because it's not compulsory, so I thought it capulsary, it's it's very much dependent on who runs the school and what motivation they have to adopt the policy is not compulsory. Yeah, so that was shocking to me. And having lived in Melbourne and Canberra and no people in Sydney, Melbourne and canber.

People are great. You don't have to remind them.

The parents are slip slopping sunscreens, hats kids have, you know, you see them doing that on the on the weekends. But here, I can walk in Paddington in central Brisbane on a weekend at midday and see parents having babies on the harness. Babies have no hats to kIPS up squinting. The grandparents have no hats and it breaks my heart.

In a pram and they've got a little pants or something over there.

Exactly, there's only so much you can do. And I know you are drives with the city. It see redheads people going up for lunch squinting, no sunglasses, no hats, nothing, and I bet they've got no sunscreen.

So it's a huge problem.

And I don't know what we can do about it because there's only so much. We're all adults, we're all grown ups. There needs to be some sense of responsibility that everyone needs to take for themselves because there's only so much public health messaging and so much we can do. I get patients to come to me and there's sunburned.

It doesn't work that way.

Is the awareness is just not quite there because we say to people when we're treating for pigmentation or laces or whatever, there's no point in treating.

And if they're not saying exactly what is the because it's waste of money.

Yeah, it's almost like there's this sense of denial and a lot of people then because a lot of skincnsers don't kill you, therefore I'll be okay. And now this whole thing about you know, great, they're melanoma treatments that prolonged survival. You can cure melanomas. We don't have to worry anymore. But actually no, because these melanoma treatments can make you feel very very sick, very unwell, very unwell, and there's no quality of life for some of my patients.

Really good friend of ours just by chance found out he had a spot on his lung post melanoma being removed from his arm. It was an X ray having something else done and they just happened to catch the bottom of the lung and they saw the tiny little mark on it. He's done immunotherapy. He describes himself as feeling like the tin man without the needing the oil, because that's the impact. It saved his life and it's fabulous and he' he would be dead by now if

Yeah.

Absolutely, that's how a lot of my melanoma patients who have gone through immiotherapy, melanoma's gone for a long time. That's exactly what they describe.

Yeah, terrible, and that neuropathy and terrible.

Yeah, exactly. Wells you know it's all great stuff, but you pay your price for it too. I couldn't agree with you more.

And I just think probably if there's any takeaway from today, where your sunscreen.

Yes, where your sunscreen, because you're gonna look ten years older than you are.

Don't listen to all the influences because really don't know shit about all the skin care products. Get good advice, don't get sunburned. Be kind to yourself. Eighty five percent is okay.

Yeah, yeah, you don't have to be one hundred percent. You don't have to be a perfectionist. And it's okay to be bored. Give yourself permission to be bored.

And the people you're writing awful things about online is a real person at the end of that, and maybe show a bit of kindness. If you're writing awful things on Facebook and being an online cowboy, it's doesn't help anyone, and I'm probably better. It doesn't make you feel great either. Absolutely and I, for one, don't. I don't write bad review anyone.

I just communicate with the business directly and say I think this is what you could improve on because I know how it impacts people, and obvious you've got to be kind.

I actually got to be kind.

Yeah, you know, it's in this society where there's so much challenges stress. Nobody needs anything else to push them to the edge, and we know it does. Yes, So if we don't look after ourselves, if we let others know that we're not putting ourselves first, no one else is going to put you first. And that's the fact that absolutely, yeah, I need to come first.

Yes, you do. And you've done so much work and help so many people. Now sometimes you look after yourself.

Yep.

So watch me.

Hopefully in the next year or two, I can find that balance a little bit more. Is not perfect yet. I don't think I have a you know, find that perfect balance. But I think little wins. I'll take little wins.

And I think if we acknowledge it and work towards it, we're getting somewhere.

Yeah. Yeah, we'll all help each other. It's a village on our own.

No, absolutely not, Thank you so much. For coming in.

Thank you for having me impression unscripted, very candid, Love it.

Thanks Leona, Thanks Bag