Women in Tech

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Sitting across from me as usual, a senior writer, Jonathan st Hey there, Yeah, today we're today we're gonna talk about women in tech. Yeah, we wanted to really kind of focus on this because it's an it's a topic that I think bears a lot of discussion, and part of that is just due to the fact that there there are fewer by percentage women in technology roles than there are men. And there are a lot of different

reasons for that. I think one of the big ones is there's a there's a social pressure that it is not necessarily even a conscious one that tends to guide women away from those jobs or men towards those jobs. And it's not, you know, it's it has nothing to do with a person's ability to hold that job, certainly

not no matter what their gender is. It's just that that's sort of it's almost like the social roles that we have set out, and it's slowly breaking down where you're seeing a lot of cross pollination across genders in both sorts of what nothing. Cross pollination is what you're

laughing at. I'm talking about jobs here, buddy, jobs. Um, but no, you're saying, Okay, So you're seeing a lot of people working in roles that perhaps were originally thought of as being gender specific or at least dominated by a particular gender. Um Now in the field of technology,

that's still pretty much true for men. There was a several articles about how many women hold jobs in in the field of technology UH compared to men, And most surveys put in that about of all jobs in the US anyway revolving around technology, so just one quarter of jobs UM, and that if you're looking at the executive level,

the numbers are even lower. The there's a British tech recruitment group called Harvey Nash and their US division held a survey and discovered that nine percent of United States chief information officers are female so or male UH, and that that's actually a smaller percentage than previous year surveys had revealed. Back in UH two thousand eleven it was eleven percent, and then two thousand and ten it was

twelve percent. So from twelve to eleven, then from eleven to nine, the number appears to be dropping, or at least the percentage is dropping. Keep in mind that you know, from one year to the next, the number of companies could increase, but the number of of women in executive roles hasn't increased, and so that way the percentage goes down. Right, It's not just necessarily that women are getting out of these positions. It may be that there are more positions,

but same number of women. Um, and that of the four this was this was what was really troubling. Of the fifty American tech executives polled in the survey said they're I T groups have no women at all in management positions. And when they were asking the same groups, do you feel that women are underrepresented in your department? Half of those people said no. So so you've got this this of these executives saying there are no women

in our department. Out of that thirty percent and half of those are saying women are not underrepresented, which is that's a fairly telling philosophical and social outlook. I think, you know, it essentially is saying that these people are saying, These men are saying, uh, no, women don't really belong here. I mean, it's an a nicer way of saying that,

but that's effectively what they are saying. Yeah. Well, and and of course there could be people who are just uh, there could be people in that group who are looking around and going, well, of my department is made up of women, or you know, or something that seems reasonable to them. So you know that that that number might

be part of it, but probably not all of it. Yeah, they're probably quite a few, and yeah, you know what, I really don't care who's here, right, And you know, ultimately the nice thing would be for us to not care who is there as long as they are the right person for the job, male or female. Um. But yeah, that's so those statistics are a little troubling. But despite those statistics, there are plenty of women we can talk about who have really, uh made a name for themselves

in the field of technology and pushed technology forward. Yeah. Actually, one of the reasons I wanted to talk about this on our podcast was we started talking about Yahoo because of a lot of the big changes that have been going on over there, and we we did touch on that, um, and it was it was the person who has taken over the helm over there, Marissa Meyer, who I consider one of the you know, really noticeable women in leadership

positions in technology. And I thought, well, you know, there are so many others and we we really haven't done a podcast on on them as a group. And many of the people, as Jonathan was pointing out to me, just in personnel or before we started the podcast, Uh, you know, many of these people we could talk about uh in their own podcasts do a full episode on

these women. So this is really kind of an overview, but don't don't take away thinking that this is all we have to say on the subject of these ladies as they are. They're interesting people, and they are holding some very important positions in technology, and they are making some decisions that are really reflected through technology technological industry as a whole, not just of their company. So there's definitely the opportunity for us to do future podcasts on

many of these women. And I do have a secondary reason for wanting to do this, and it's it's a very personal reason. I have two daughters, both of whom uh seem to like technology. They're they're still fairly young, but you know, I'm thinking, well, it would be nice if, um, they saw a lot of these women that we're going

to talk about today as role models. You know, maybe they don't necessarily want to get into programming or or into a technology position, but I want them to see that they can, uh, you know, and they're there are people who are really setting the bar very high as women in technology positions. So you know, personally, I would like to see them see this as an opportunity if

it's something they're interested in later in life. There are many women on this list who achieved more by the time they were in their mid twenties than I have in my final year of my mid thirties. Nice. Well, you know, I got to hold onto that as long as I possibly can. This is it, this is it after you know, next year I'm in my late thirties. Well if if some of those people who said that they don't see um any discrepancy in the numbers for women in technology, I wonder if they know that the

very first programmer computer programmer was a woman. We actually talked about her time ago. Yes, a Lovelace. Yes, we had an entire podcast on her as well as I think stuff you missed in history class did an episode on her. Two fascinating historical figure and an incredibly smart woman and uh, incredibly smart human being. I mean that's really just a woman. Just sounds like I'm adding a qualifier on her, and that's totally not what I mean.

She was wicked smart. Yeah. Well, I mean, when you're writing software for a computer that doesn't actually physically exist, yeah, is pretty impressive. Yeah yeah, and it would have worked. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. So yeah, these are all amazing people that we're gonna be talking about, And now I think we should probably start with Marissa Meyer. Even though we covered her in the Yahoo podcast, I think it's good to remind people who she is and what she's

accomplished already. And she's one of the things she's accomplished that she became the youngest CEO of a fortune company once she took over the reins over at Yahoo YEA, and she she took over at Will not exactly directly, but the Yahoo had had a female CEO UH shortly, only maybe months before that, so Carol Carol Bartz, who built Autodesk into a very very strong company to um and UM. Meyer came from Stanford University where she graduated. She had a degree in symbolic systems and a master's

in computer science, UH, specializing in artificial intelligence. And she really made a name for herself over at Goal. You know, she became the twentieth employee at Google. She was the first female engineer at Google, not the first female employee, but the first female engineer, and she ended up heading up various parts of their search departments. And UH was really well known for doing an excellent job over there. Before she ended up leaving Google to become the CEO

of Yahoo. And it was kind of a remarkable thing, really because people who had been very pessimistic about Yahoo's chances sort of changed their tune or at least switched over to cautious optimism when Meyer came over, because I think that she sort of projects this this aura of uh, you know, she's got determination, she's got technical skill, She's known as a very good public speaker, although there are some reports saying that she can be challenging to work with,

depending upon whom you ask. So there's there's some optimism that was not really there for Yahoo among certain people. There are plenty of others who are still like, you know, Yahoo is is such a mess that it's going to take more than just a change in leadership to really turn things around. And really, time is the only thing that's going to tell us who's right in that case. Yeah, Yahoo has been suffering, at least as far as pundits are concerned with a UM A lack of compelling product recently.

I would say, um, based on on what I've read, uh, you know, they've they've built themselves into a content powerhouse. UM really bring them sort of reinforcing their image as a portal as an Internet destination when you're looking for information. Um And, uh, you know, as far as as technical products have UH been concerned, I would say that that Yahoo is sort of uh dated itself and that way because a while ago, you know, they were known for for their web mail program, for their for their chat.

But those those things were, you know, long ago. They're very very commonplace. Now they haven't done a lot of innovation in that sphere. And um and Meyer has led Google to launch several products, some of which are admittedly no longer with us. But um, you know, she's known as someone who can who has the technical background, as you said, and can lead in that regard. And I think that's that has a lot to do with what

they feel about Yahoo's rejuvenation. Um And let's let's face it, not all of Yahoo's recent uh C e O s have been media friendly over the past while. So I think she adds she adds that multidimensional up Um, as you were saying, sticking with early employees of Google, Yes, there's also Susan Wajiski. Yes, and Wajiski is the senior vice president of Advertising at Google. Now, folks, that's how Google makes the majority of its money, and we're talking

billions of dollars. It's all in ads. And so Susan heads up this, this entire department that is all about, you know, generating revenue through advertising. Being a senior vice president and that's that's a huge job. And she she was the sixteenth employee or sixteenth person hired by Google now. Wiki also holds another interesting um title or I guess you can't really call it. I guess garage owner isn't

such a title, huh, but no, wiski is. She's the person who owned the garage that Larry Page and Serge Brend rented when they first had Google as just a couple of computers running their algorithms. So she gave them the physical space they needed to house the earliest version of Google. So um, without her, Google would have been homeless or at least garage less. Yeah. Her, her mom esther is an educator, and uh, I actually have been sort of following. She's a She's very active in social

media circles and and posts a lot. And I actually sort of came across her through Uh. Susan's sister Anne who was one of the founders of twenty three and Me, the genetics organization that has popularized uh spitting a cup and send it to us and will tell you about your genome. Yeah, we'll tell you know, where you descend from and whether you have certain genetic markers or not. Yeah, it's which I which I think is absolutely fascinating stuff. So it's obvious that, uh, the women in that family

are very interested in science and technology. Um. Also interesting is that that and uh it's also married to Sara gay Brand. Yeah. So there there's a tight Google connection there is, which actually explains why when I was reading first reading about twenty three and Me, it was because they were interested in you know, he was going, I want to know more about my geno. So it's a very very tight just that connection to that family and uh, you know, just the whole curiosity idea there. So who

who did you want to talk about next? Well, um, let's see, there's a there's a CEO of a president CEO of a certain company called HP. Oh, yes, Meg Whitman. Uh. Now she has led more than one mega mega size tech organization. Yeah. Now she's got a really tough job ahead. Of her too, just like Marissa Meyer in that HP has had a rough couple of of quarters, really rough couple of years through some tough acquisitions that didn't work out.

I mean Palm being a great example where HP acquired Palm and the web Os operating system and then it just sort of languished for a while, although there has been some recent news about web Os kind of coming alive again in a limited capacity. HP is spinning off another company that's going to be sent me Independent that the web Os will live under. But yes, um, uh, she's leading that company. I mean that's a and I mean that's one of the big historic companies in technology

in the United States. M of course we've done an episode about it. So yeah, now now she uh, she is more of a business person, uh and didn't really start in tech. She she has a degree from from Princeton You Adversity and an NBA from Harvard Business School. Um. And she actually had been working at Procter and Gamble, which, if you're not familiar, is a a company that makes

all kinds of products for the home. That's probably what they're best known for, detergent, soaps, um and other kinds of and they make tons and tons of different kinds of products and they're sold all over the world. She did, however, work with that. That that was where she had an

opportunity to work with someone very famous in tech. And do you know about this, the uh somebody else who worked at Procter and Gamble before he ran off in eight three different detergent brands future Microsoft CEO Steve Balmer, which may explain why he was foaming at the mouth.

But we pick on Steve, but we like Steve anyhow. Yeah, uh, Meg Whitman was working at at Procter and Gamble and then spent ten years at at eBay, which is how I came to know who she was, um and and she led it for a long time and uh you know, then she got she sort of nurtured a political ambition. She uh um decided to uh um run for governor of California, which is a small state on the West coast of the United States. Yeah, it's um uh. It's separated by a northern part that uh is very different

from the southern part. And boy will they tell you about it. Um. But then yeah, after you know, she did not get elected, but that did make her available to run Hewlett Packard when that job became available. So she certainly knows technology and she knows business, so she came in to replace Leo uh Appetaker. Yeah. I I never can pronounce his name. I've heard his name pronounced about a hundred times, and I don't think it was pronounced the same way twice Leo A yeah, yes, apothecar.

If you want to be just terrible about it, Um, that's way it looks. Yeah, that's the way. That's the way it's spelled. But I believe epic taker is the one I've heard the most frequently, so he uh. He was the person who was in charge through many of the somewhat rocky decisions HP acted upon UH in its recent past. But when Whitman took over, she said, this is not an indication or an implication that we are going to change strategy mid stride. It's a change in leadership,

but not necessarily of approach. So and that takes a lot of guts to do too. I mean it's because you know, you've got shareholders to answer for. They say, what are you going to do about these decisions? And you know, sometimes the answer isn't to just reverse everything you're doing, because I can cause even more damage, even though that might not make shareholders happy. So, like we said, you know, UH Whitman has a really really tough job.

You know, when you're when you're running a business that has as many complexities as HP. How many episodes do we do on HP? It was at least two, might have been three. Um, you have to I think when you're you're being charged with turning the company around, I think you have to take your time just simply because uh,

there's a lot of momentum you've built up behind you. Yeah, so you know, she's she's taking her time and going piece by piece, and I think that's why people seem to feel somewhat confident that that she has a good chance of helping out now. Of course, she wasn't the only UH woman to lead HP in the past, UH Carl Fierina. Actually she she dropped out of law school and then joined A T and T um and and

and she led uh HP for for quite some time too. Um. But it's funny because she she started as a sales representative at a T and T when she was twenty five years old, and UH basically moved on up I mean she she was noticed because she knew she seemed to know what she was doing. Um, and got generally promoted up through the ranks at A T and T and at Lucent, which um you know is the technology arm, got spun off um over there, and then join HP

in UM. She was the first woman to start at a for fortune company as as the CEO as a matter of fact, um and was also a board member of Kellogg and Merken company. UM. So she you know, had her had a diverse background, not just in technology, um, but you know, they she's she's definitely somebody of note in tech. Well, speaking of someone else who's of note intech, there's Virginia Romady. Oh yes, the first female president and CEO of Big Blue IBM how itself. Um, that's just

a joke. How how even though even though the name how is in fact one letter off each from IBM, supposedly there's no connection. Uh. So she worked for General Motors before she came over to IBM, but is now leading that company, and she's credited with, you know, you know, at her time at IBM, she's credited with pushing IBM

into the cloud computing business. And you know that was that was a pretty risky maneuver for a company that was very much entrenched in just enterprise solutions for companies, UM and designing stuff that other manufacturers can by, you know, going into the cloud computing business back before it became essentially a household term, at least if you're living in a geeky household, it was. You know, it was a

pretty big move. And she was also instrumental in maneuvering IBMS Watson, which is the Jeopardy playing computer, into other uses like she helped push to have Watson developed for things like the medical field, which that was the intention from the beginning for Watson, but she helped create those those relationships and leverage that so that what it was designed for and what it does is the same thing

that doesn't always happen. And technology, you'll often see companies develop something with the with a with a very specific purpose, and yet because it's a technology company and that purpose may actually lie outside the realm of just whatever it is that company generally does, it never goes anywhere. And you have to be able to create these relationships and leverage them so that you can get this product where

it needs to go. So it can do what it was signed to do and UH and from what I've read, she was very much instrumental in making that happen. UM. Also also of notice Ursula Burns, the chairman and CEO of Xerox. Yes, yes, another big big name and technology absolutely UM. Yeah. In in in addition to UH being notable for being a female CEO of a tech company, she is also the first African American woman to run a

major public corporation in the United States. UM. And she had had a big job in front of her too, because of course, with computer technology changing the way we

we all work. UM. Xerox, which that heavily on its duplication systems, UM had to compete with not only other people, but they had to compete with UH organizations that they didn't necessarily have to compete with in prior decades, So they had to do a lot of shifting and UM basically she's absolutely you know, she's got a lot of credit for leading Xerox UH to gradually shifting over to

two new industries. From what I've read, UM, she she actually also is a part of the White House's program on STEM Education, which is a science, Technology, engineering, and mathematics um and as part of as the vice share of the President's Export Council as well. Um but yeah, she's a she's also has a hand in tech. She's not just a business person, she um um is into the technology side as well, and then she worked her way up to the top. Yeah, and you know, Xerox

has a long history of innovation as well. Yes, so we for those of us who have only been alive for the last couple of decades, you may not realize that Xerox goes far beyond the copy machine, right because zero that that's what we think of. I'd i'd argue that's what most people think of when they hear Xerox. In fact, it's it's one of those terms that's become so universal that's become a generic term for a copy machine, a Xerox machine, to the company's chagrin. Right, just like

you know, clean ex, band aids, Jello, etcetera. These are all companies that have had products that become so well known that they became the generic term for that whatever it was. There's a whole list out there, Google it. Yeah, there you go, there's a good one. Um So anyway, Yeah, Xerox was has has always been a company that's really been known for innovation. I mean, thanks to Xerox, we have things like graphical user interfaces and the computer mouse.

These came out of the research and development departments within Xerox. So it's a company that already has a history with innovation. It's good to see a new focus on that as well. And that innovation may come in the form of technology, or it may come in the form of they're innovative in that they're getting into fields that they haven't done before. The important thing is to really embrace that. And she can't.

Like I said, she came up through the ranks too, so she's not somebody that they brought in to handle this job. She earned it. Yeah, inside well, not that that isn't earning it, but she earned it working her way up through the company, which I yeah, I I. You know, there's not to take away from anyone who makes their way in in whatever business and then comes

over to become a leader of something else. I mean, obviously that in itself is a really tough thing to do and it takes a very special person to do that. But yeah, fearinga over at a T and T and Lusen and then coming over to HP. That don't mean to disparage that at all, but to rise up from

the ranks. Yeah. No, that's a great story because it not only means that they have the ability to lead, but that they actually have that history with the company and that you get a feeling that that's someone who the philosophy of the company, of the mission statement of the company is more than just words on paper. It's

someone who has really believed in that. Because trust me, I mean, when you're looking at people who are leading a company, you have to realize these are people who have had opportunities to leave and go somewhere else and do something big, but they chose to stay with that company. That's a huge statement too. Yeah, she's she's definitely a fascinating uh person, And I'm somebody I don't think you don't hear her name like you do some of the other leaders of corporations out there, so I wanted to

make sure we talked about her. There's the co founder of HTC ah Yeah, share Wong and Uh there's somebody else who you don't hear. Yeah, you don't hear her name very very frequently. And she's an extremely wealthy woman, but she was one of the co founders for HTC and HTC recently, HTC has been having a pretty rough time in the United States in particular, But for a while HTC was really an up and coming, like they

seemed to come out nowhere, right. I had never even heard of HTC before the first Android phone in the United States, the g one. When when there was the HTCG one. When that launched, I I thought, h t S, I don't know who this is. And I looked into it and said, well, you know they've got you know this, they designed mobile hardware. It's I'll give it a try. And then I was really taken with the form factor and I very much enjoyed that phone, and in fact,

I currently use an HTC phone as my phone. UM so, yeah, they went from a name that in the United States had next to no recognition to becoming a dominant player in the smartphone space, uh, very very quickly. Now recently that that landscape has changed somewhat, I would argue that the dominant players in the smartphone space right now are well Apple, because Apple has been since the instruction of the iPhone. In fact, one could argue that Apple is

the company. In fact, I don't even think you have to argue with Apple is the company that made smartphones a popular choice for consumers in the United States. You know, professionals had been using them for a while, but they hadn't really made a a break in the consumer market until the iPhone. But HTC was then a pretty heavy competitor. Recently, I'd say that Apple and Samsung are probably the two

dominant players in that space in the United States. But HTC is still producing lots of different handsets and for many different UM carriers, so you can find it across different carriers. It's not like it's a specific one. And I know you You also wanted to mention Saffra Cats. Yes, who is the president of Oracle Um She uh she has a uh A law degree from the University of Pennsylvania UM and uh A b A and BS from

University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, which is a prestigious business school. Um. Yeah she she actually um had been CFO of the company from two thousand five to two thousand eight UM and then had you know, chief financial office. Yes, that's good,

thank you. I'm usually the one who does that, but you know, this is This is another name that may not be familiar to our listeners, but she had been at the company for quite some time and uh it was you know, definitely actually since and had been very instrumental in the company's success. Now. Oracle is another is one of those tech companies too that it powers a lot of stuff, but the average person on the street may not necessarily know who. We're gonna have to do

an episode on Oracle at some point. Well, then there's Larry Ellison. Yeah, I need to do an episode on an Oracle, need to do an episode on Cisco. I mean, there's some big companies that are really important in technology that you know, anyone who works in tech, they know the name yea. But for the rest of us who might be interested in technology, but we don't live in

that world necessarily. These names are the ones we've heard, but we don't really have a Like they do something with computers, like that's that's what it Our knowledge tends to boil down to. So we'll have to do episodes that focus on these companies. Um. Yeah, So actually that's a good point because I I didn't collect a lot of notation on Sandy Lerner from Cisco but she was

one of the founders of Cisco. Um. That's funny. There's always somebody else that I want to do these that I go, oh, yeah, I will say I will say something about someone who works at Cisco, a woman who holds a leadership position there. Oh, Kathy O'Connell. Yes, us the communications director at Cisco. So it's her job to be able to communicate with the public about what Cisco does. You know, why it's important, the developments that the company is making, and be able to explain the technology in

a way that the lay person can understand. And I had the pleasure of being on a panel with Kathy O'Connell at an event called the Engage Dig Day this year. It was earlier this year that this year being two thousand and twelve. For those of you who are listening in the future, Hi, do we have jet packs yet? Anyway, Cathy o'con and I appeared on a panel about the

Internet of Things, which we've done an episode on. But yeah, that concept of Internet connections that go beyond a mobile device or a laptop when you're at a hot spot or whatever. It's it's where the Internet has incorporated lots of different data gathered from sensors could be in anything from a security camera to your refrigerator, to your television

to whatever. And uh So we had this discussion and it was absolutely fascinating and it was a real pleasure meeting her and hearing her perspectives on what the future holds as far as the Internet of Things is concerned. Um So, I wanted to mention her since you had since we both talked about Cisco there briefly, it was just a personal connection. The other women that are on this list I have never uh personally met. I admire them, but I've never met them. Um Oh, there's someone I

wanted to mention, Elizabeth Barron. I don't know. Did you run across this name? Yeah. So she's a technical specialist who works for the Ford Motor Company and her specialty is virtual reality. So, um I was reading about her and the thing that was interesting was, well, a couple of different things were interesting. First of all, she gave her background about how she got interested in the whole virtual reality field in the first place. Uh And I can actually quote here she says, basically, I am a

geek by nature. When I was young, I love gizmos, photography and science. I was fascinated by the physics of light, color and optical properties. I learned the art and science of developing and printing photographs. I followed that calling and it led to an education and career in computer graphics. So here's someone who's looks at light and says, that's

really cool. I want to know everything there is to know, which is I mean, curiosity is one of those traits that I find personally one of the that's one of my favorite traits in human Yeah, just the human experience is the desire to know and to discover, and she certainly embodies that. And she talked about how it was a real challenge to get a virtual reality department within the Ford Motor Company. When she got there, it was hard to convince people that this was a valuable asset

to the company. And she managed to get a small amount of funding and it was, you know, just barely enough to get moving, but she kept pushing and she got it together, and she showed that this immersive virtual reality environment could be a very valuable tool when you're developing vehicles that you know, with a very sophisticated simulator model, you can really test stuff out before you ever get to the actual physical prototype stage where you're really committing

lots of money to a project. So if you can test it in a virtual environment, then you say, you know, this design is great, except that according to this virtual model, there's a killer blind spot that I just can't fix here, I mean the physical If we if we represent, you know, create a physical model based upon this, uh, that's gonna be a serious problem. So maybe we should rethink that now before we ever build anything, before it really becomes

a killer problem. I I feel like our discussion would be remiss if we didn't mention Cheryl Sandberg, the CEO of Facebook chief operating officer. Uh. She that's again not her only tech uh job. She wasn't had a minor role as vice president of Global Online Sales and Operations

at Google. She may have heard of that company. She's also she was also the chief of staff to the United States Secretary of the Treasury back in uh from ninety six to two thousand one, where she was just trying to solve tiny little problems like um forgiving debt in the developing world. Well you know, she's tiny, tiny issue.

Well then there you know her credentials, you know, or it's just a master's degree in Business Administration and MBA with highest distinction from Harvard Business School and suma koum laude. That's Latin for you can't get any higher than this degree in economics from Harvard. So she seems reasonably qualified.

I think reasonably qualified is an appropriate explanation of her abilities. Yeah. Actually, though she's a she's another one of those people that, even though she's not the CEO of the company, she has She's also been sort of a standout in the media. Um, she has spoken for for Facebook on several occasions. She's somebody where they know whose whose face I have seen in the news and um, you know, they do employ her as a spokesperson from time to time. Uh that

would follow as her role as chief operating officer. But they obviously feel qualified that she's qualified to be a leader and uh as a spokesperson for the company. And someone else who is uh fascinating person involved with technology. She didn't make her name and engineering but Melinda Gates to who met some guy at the company she worked for and decided to marry him Billy. Yeah, but she

has has been involved with product development at Microsoft. UM and uh she uh she married Bill Gates and in ninety four and uh basically after that, um really known for philanthropic work, yes, and has really built the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation into one of the world's leading philanthropic organizations. It's absolutely phenomenal, absolutely um. So uh you know, and she's just that she's an interesting lady too. Just doing a little reading about her, she's a really cool

person to to get to know. Not that I know her personally, but from what from what I freaking what we can glean. Um. And I'd also like to mention another programmer for the Navy Rear, Admiral Grace Murray Hopper. Wow, I didn't come across this, oh you Uh. Born in nine six, she graduated from Vasser in got her PhD in math from Yale in ninety four. Um. She actually was a professor at Vasser for a while and joined

the Naval Reserve, so she was a backup belly button. Uh. She was a lieutenant junior grade in in ninety four and and became uh part of the Bureau of Ordnance and uh started working on the electronic computer. I'm surprised you don't know Dr Hopper's name actually because she is the person who discovered the first computer bug. Literally they

still have it. It was a moth caught in between relay number seventy panel F of the Mark two ake and relay calculator when they were testing it at Harvard on set number nine, and they actually found a bug, a moth in the machine removed it. As I recall, we actually talked about this. We did, we did, and uh they still they have a record of it being debugged with the moth taped to the paper and we

still use that term today. Yes, it was at the Naval Surface Surface Warfare Center Computer Museum in Dahlgren, Virginia. You can actually see the first computer bug, which I imagine is a bit crunchy by this time. But um, absolutely one of the world's first practical programmers. I don't mean to take that away from Ada Lovelace, but uh, definitely involved in early early actual electronic computing. UM and

a fascinating person on her on her own. UM. So yeah, she retired in UH in nineteen sixty six, but then went back into active duty. So she she finally retired UM from the Navy as a rear admiral and in five and was still active in industry and education according to her biography as of when she when she passed away. So really really cool person that most people, again have no idea who she is. But if you want to know who invented the computer bug, what was the bug itself,

but she helped discover it. There's some women that I think we should mention because they specifically make it a priority to try and promote the tech technology industry to other women, and to to promote science education, you know that STEM education you were talking about earlier, really pushing that so that so that women who are interested in this don't feel like they're that like one, that they

stand out, or that they're unusual. There's nothing unusual about it, or that there's, you know, anything weird about pursuing that they shouldn't feel weird about it, and that they should have every opportunity to pursue that because frankly, the world needs gifted people in these fields. That's what we need. So if there's someone who's interested in it, they should

certainly pursue it. So there are a few women who have really gone out of their way to make organizations that are supportive of other women who are either seeking a job in the tech industry or who already have a job in the tech industry. UM. Carolyn Layton is one of those. She's a founder of the Women in Technology International organization and that coordinates events for women who

are interested or employed within technology fields. UH. There's Alison Capin who is the founder of Women Who Tech, which is another organization. They hold events that have panels discussing various uh topics within the field of technology that specifically pertained to women, but also go beyond the whole gender question as well. So these are and there are plenty

of other examples. Those are two that I specifically just pulled out from my list who have worked hard to try and promote technology as a viable pursuit for women who are interested in it. Yeah, I've I've seen uh more tech camps promoted and opportunities for kids actually of both genders. UM, but you know, specifically for girls to to to get involved in learning how to program uh, for people to um um get into making. As a matter of fact, I recommend checking out on YouTube super

Awesome Sylvia's show. UM. She's a young lady who is into making her own electronics. Her dad is a I believe, a podcaster on his own tech podcaster. Um. And she has a show where she teaches, you know, she shows how to make to build different kits. Um. She will warn you that soldering can be dangerous, which is good um. And just I just love seeing kids who are interested in it, but especially, like I said, young women, probably

because of my own uh, my own kids. UM. But I'm glad to see that, well you think about it, technology, electronic technology and computers is still even in its uh formed as we know it now, still a very young industry. So I'm I'm glad to see that there are more people encouraging kids to get involved, especially girls and young women. And uh, I'm sure that the disparity between the genders, you know, as years go on, is going to uh

to even out more. I certainly hope so, uh you know, I I frankly sometimes I get a little worried about STEM education across the board here in the United States, not know, not just directed toward towards women, but you know, just just the state, just the state of STEM education in the United States at all. So I hope to see more kids interested in science and I think I

actually do. And and part of it is because we have we live in a in an era of incredible scientific discovery, and I think that's helping encourage kids to look into it more, which means that we have to create the programs that support this because one, we're gonna need it in the future. And too, that's what the kids need, that's what they want. So and I say that as a liberal arts graduate, I'm a I'm an English major. What do you do with a BA in English?

The digital humanities? Yes? So, uh, Like we said, this was just sort of an overview of some of the the amazing women who have really led the technological industry over the last several years. And there are so many more. We could do easily a two hour long podcast just talking about a handful of them. And as we said before, many of these women deserve an entire episode in their of their own just to really cover everything that they've

done and the contributions they've made. Two women and to technology. Yeah, and this is keep in mind that this is not to to um to disparage anyone who uh is in programming or somebody you know, in in a different role in the tech industry. We we picked out people who have become notable, uh you know, noticeable really, I guess through their their roles as leaders in their or organizations. But there are women at many levels in all kinds of tech companies who should be lauded for, uh for

what they do because they play an important role. So one of them, Yeah, exactly. My wife works in the technology field. She holds a very technical position at a very large company. And moreover than that, I think my wife needs to be lauded for the fact that she hasn't yet to strangle me. Yeah. I was going to mention that, but I'm glad you brought it up. Yeah. Yeah, my coworkers feel like strangling me, and they spend a fraction of the amount of time that my wife has

to spend with me, So that's saying something. So yeah, I'm I'm glad we we touched on on some of these, and I think, uh, several of these people, as you said earlier, to might might be good subjects for future podcasts on some of the tech biographies that you're doing. Yeah, so we will probably revisit some of these in the future, certainly. So I would like to recommend to any of our

listeners out there. If there's someone in particular you would like us to talk about in the future episode, let's know. Or if there's just some other specific topic that you are dying to hear about, let us know a send as an email or I just as tech stuff at discovery dot com, or drop us a line on Twitter or Facebook. Are handled. There is text stuff hs W and Chris and I will talk to you again really soon for more on this and thousands of other topics.

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