Where Electronics Go When They Die

electronics consumer electronics. But we thought it was worth revisiting this because things have developed in the time since we recorded. Things have changed. Yes, tech Stuff has been around for five almost six years now. Tech Stuff was invented shortly before the Internet. We used to Chris and I at the back in the day used to just find people and talk to them about technology as they asked us to please let them go. But now we've got a

different arrangement. Um we can reach a much broader audience, although we are not able to hold them until we're done. Other than that, though, I think things have improved. I think I think that is coming in the future. I think that some kind of haptic feedback shock shock system if you pause or you are allowed to listen to us at two times speed, but only if it pitches our voices up, because we like being chipmunks. Speak for yourself at any rate. Okay, let's let's talk about recycling.

So this, this really is a major problem. Green Peace estimates that million tons, million tons. That's that's eight million metric tons f y i um of of e waste is generated every year, right and and and before we get a lot of emails saying, but that screen piece, you know, that bias, etcetera. We totally understand a lot of the sources we're pulling from our various organizations that

have very specific philosophies when it comes to recycling. However, when it comes down to this one, I found lots and lots of different estimates that all came from different sources that essentially gravitated around this fifty million ton mark. So I pretty much subscribe to that now the million one. That one was quoted back in two thousand nine, So

fifty million. It's not a surprise that that number has crept up to the higher end of that scale since then, I mean two thousand nine, we still had just the very dawn of the smartphone era as far as the consumers were concerned, right, I mean, the iPhone had only been out for a couple of years. Now we've got iPads, all these other kinds of tablets, all smartphones of all shapes and sizes, tons of different types of computers and video game consoles and all these other kind of elements.

Not a big shock to see that there's this massive amount of stuff. And on top of that, the world of technology is one that encourages us to consume. Right. Oh sure, well, I mean every everyone wants, or not everyone necessarily, but most of us want, you know, the new, big, shiny thing, and and we want it to perform to

our specifications. You know, we want to do that that stuff that makes it useful, which frequently means getting the new one as soon as it comes out, because we don't we don't want to feel like we're missing out on something, right. I mean, as an Android user, I feel this very keenly. You know. I think in some ways, Apple users have the better end of the deal, in the sense that they can generally expect that their products, specifically things like the iPhone and the iPad, will update

once a year. iPads a little different. We saw two updates come a couple of years ago, in one year, in fact, like six months apart from each other, seven months something like that. But in general, the iPhone tends to get one update per year, and so while you still have that regular are drive to upgrade your devices. It's not like Android, where a new handset comes out

from different manufacturers on a weekly basis. But either way, the message that we get from marketing, from companies, even from our peers is that you are missing out if you don't have the latest thing. But that means you have to do something with the old things you have. They will slowly accumulate in your home or maybe not so slowly, depending upon how how big a tech geek

you are. I've got friends who it's like you walk into the computer history museum when you when you walk into their place, and you might have a junk drawer that's just junk smartphones from the last couple of years. But what's the responsible way of dealing with these things, of of offloading these electronics that aren't really you know, you're not using them, You're using the newest thing, So what do you do with the old ones? I mean apart from hand me downs to our friends and relatives,

what do you do beyond that? I personally keep a few of them around as important curios of my past. I still have a beeper. Wow, yeah you had. Okay, there's a dark part of your past. I want to explore at some point because I I was, I was that person who while I cover technology and I love technology people, I mean I absolutely I am obsessed with it. I am also not the earliest of adopters, with a few exceptions, uh Android, I was an early adopter, but

cell phones. I held off a long time on cell phones, so I was on the end of the like the initial rush had already happened. I was in the long tale. Maybe at the beginning of the long tail. It wasn't It wasn't like it was two thousand five or anything like that. But anyway, we have this encouraging culture built around electronics that encourage us to consume to buy new things, and then we have to worry about the old things. And until fairly recently, it hasn't been that public a

concern about what to do with the old stuff. Now there were there were organizations and people who are thinking

about this. For a couple of decades, sure, going all the way back to the nineteen seventies is really when people started becoming more concerned about what to do with with solid wastes in general and um and hazardous wastes in particular, and uh and and through through the years since then, various organizing bodies around the world have been, um, you know, just trying to raise awareness and and create laws for individual countries to to adopt. And we'll get

into that a little bit more later on. But um, but yeah, so I mean, it's it's it's been in people. Was when the Basil Convention first put out a series of agreements that were like, hey, we should be thinking about this because this is a problem, right right, And and you know, the environmental movement, like you said, began in the seventy nineteen seventy was when the first Earth Day happened. And but but that was really looking at

traditional waste problems. Electronic waste in nineteen seventy wasn't really a big thing. You know, you would buy an appliance and you would keep that appliance until it was broken beyond repair and then you would get a new one. But other than that and you know, you weren't necessarily upgrading your television that frequently or any of the other consumer electronics that were popular in the seventies. It wasn't really until we got to like the portable electronics of

the mid seventies and then the personal computer era. Also, I mean, we didn't have circuit boards in every toaster, like, we didn't have smart toasters yet, so it was a little bit less of a specific issue stupid toaster. So let's look at some statistics about electronics and recycling and and just tossing stuff away. Uh. This is all information that I pulled from the Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries Incorporated.

They had a presentation that was all about the staff and the stats here mostly date from twelve, so they're pretty current. Uh. Keeping in mind, there are other stats

that we could talk about. The Environmental Protection Agency that a report back in two thousand nine that said that only about a quarter of all the electronics ready for end of life management, meaning they are you are done with them, you do not want them anymore, only were collected for recycling back in two thousand nine, and the total weight of electronics ready to be discarded or recycled was about two point three seven million tons in two

thousand nine. Now again that was for the United States. We're talking fifty million tons annually worldwide. So uh, for the Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries Incorporated. They have some other interesting statistics. They said that the United States exported forty seven point three million metric tons of scrap material in two thousand twelve. Now that includes more than just electronics. It's not that that's all electronics. Because these numbers start

to conflict with each other. You're thinking, wait, we're producing the world's producing fifty million, but the US is exporting forty seven point three million, So this this is overall all scrap, right, And then they said that the value of the scrap materials was estimated at about twenty six billion dollars, a lot of money. According to the Federal Trade Commission in two thousand eleven, um, the the U s export of used electronic products was one point four

five billion. So so that's of of that share, Yeah, of the twenty six billion, one point four five being electronics, being like like above the table, electronics, like when we're not talking about because there is an issue with people illegally exporting right right there. We'll get into that too. Uh. So that that scrap that we're exporting, that the United States is exporting. When I say we, I'm talking about the United States because that's again, once again we say

this all the time. That's where that's where Lauren and I live. But the you know, obviously e waste is a global issue, it's not. In fact, that's it's a global issue mainly because the United States and countries like it, because developed countries have been exporting waste to developing countries and up. Yeah, it's it's a big mess. Although there are a lot of people working very hard to clean

that mess up. So a hundred sixty different countries received this scrap material that we were exporting, and uh, when you get down to the actual electronic waste they're about. The United States process is about four million tons of electronic waste for recycling each year. That's uh, there're about six million tons in the United States that get sent out for recycling, but only four million of it are

processed within the United States itself. So the rest of it has to go somewhere else because we just don't have the capacity to process more than that UH currently, although that could change as companies begin to explore the potential of recycling in the US. A part of the

issue is also cost effectiveness UM. Until UM possibly today, it's been pretty hard for h companies to in the US to compete with recycling plants outside of the US, partially because a lot of recycling plants in developing countries aren't certified and UM aren't being responsible with their workers

health or their waste management management practices. Essentially, what it comes down to is economics, right, you get you have an economic incentive to ship this stuff overseas because there are processing facilities and collectors who pay their employees very very very little. Because it's a different country and in that country the laws are completely different than they are in the United States and other developed countries, so it's cheaper to send it out rather then process it at home.

And because you look at business decisions with that dollar sign in mind more often than not. Not to say that all companies do this, but but it's a general trend, especially if you're answering to shareholders, and shareholders are interesting getting a return on their investment. You're looking for the cheapest way to do the work possible, and that might involve sending stuff off to a company that doesn't pay its employees very well and doesn't really care about their

health or safety. UM. And that's like Lauren alluded to, that might be changing big time in the United States. But we'll get to that. So s of all e waste collective for recycling comes from commercial businesses in the United States, only twenty five percent came from residential sources. And so the Institute actually identified that as an area of opportunity to increase collection and recycling programs within the United States to cater specifically for regular citizens, so that

we would have an outlet that would be easy to access. UH. And there are multiple ways of going about that, whether it's some sort of government funded program or a completely privatized service. UH. That that was left up in the air that the program wasn't or the presentation wasn't about that.

It was just saying, here's some opportunity. Also, eighty two point eight percent of all collected e waste in the United States was recycled, reused, or refurbished within the US, and then seventeen point two percent of the collected e waste. Keep in mind this is just the stuff that was collected for recycling. There is a lot of it that's just going to land. Yeah, but seventeen point two percent of that collected E waste by weight was exported to

other countries. Now, if you look at all the e waste collected, twelve point one percent of it was exported as testing or working products, meaning that these are things that were still in working order that could be donated to other countries so that they yeah, so they could either be sold in that country or used in some sort of school program or whatever. Some of it was ready for repair or refurbishment, some of it was just

in working order. But that remaining five point one percent of all of the electronic waste we collected ended up being exported without us really knowing what the final destination or purpose was, which is troublesome because, like we said, there are some of these companies out there that are behaving in ways that we would call unethical, you know, questionable things that where they're not treating uh, the workers very well, they aren't looking after people's health and safety.

Um and when you're taught, I mean, you know, five percent sounds like like a small number until you're thinking about five of a few million tons, and it's like, oh, yeah, that's that's a problem. And these are real people and real lives, you know. I mean human beings who have families and they have their own problems, and but one of those problems might be that they are dealing with material that could be very toxic in a dangerous way.

We'll get into that later on as well. So with that five point one percent, they call it the sliver in in the presentation because when you're looking at it, if you look at it just from a percentage point of view, like you said, Lauren, you have this tendency to say, oh, it's just five percent. But they point out that sliver is incredibly important and you cannot ignore it because to do so is irresponsible. So and again, this is just the United States. There are other countries

that also export electronic waste to developing nations. So it's it's a problem that goes beyond just the US. It's just that those are again the figures that are easiest for us to get because we happen to live here right right as as it turns out that the European Union is a little bit ahead of the the US

and the entire game they have. They have passed the UM European Waste Shipment Regulation, which UM has adopted some of the statutes put out by multinational organizations for for better, better, more responsible, responsible treatments of these products. And uh what

what actually happens to this recycling? The stuff that's being sent out to be turned into other stuff not just refurbished or repurposed of it is recycled into specification grade commodity scrap, which includes things like aluminum or a copper or scrap steel. Ten of it's resold as functioning equipment and components for direct resale. So only ten percent of all the stuff we send out is actually being used

again in that respect. Uh an eighteen percent of it's resold as equipment and components for further repair and refurbishment. So that may mean that you're not just like like the computer you donate might have some stuff that they they salvage from the computer to use either to sell directly or to put into something else, and then other parts might just join that scrap. So the majority of it is going as just scrap. It's not not being reused or refurbished or anything like that, So why would

you want to recycle in the first place. Well, part of it is that the idea of donating your electronics, anything that's in working order, then extends the lifespan of that device, which makes the device more valuable to people in general and also can can specifically help people in need. There's a bunch of different programs, um you know, cellphones for soldiers, or a lot of domestic abuse hotline kind of places will accept cell phones. Forum for for for

victims to use to get help. The World Computer Exchange accepts computers for donation. It's one of the more reputable organizations there are. There are quite a few actually that have incredible reputations. They are known for being responsible and

for accepting donations. It's important that you do research when you need to recycle or electronics, and we'll talk more about that in the second half too, but just a general note, if you are going to recycle anything, make sure that what whatever outlets you're looking at our responsible ones. So one sort of materials are getting recycled when we're recycling electronics. It's pretty much the same sort of stuff you would think of when you're sorting through your recycling.

You know, if you have like a recycled bin or several bins that you have to sort through the same sort of stuff. In general, it's just they happen to be combined into products. And it's changing slightly, um as

the phase of electronics change. I mean, if you're recycling your old CRT monitor, then that's going to be a different set of stuff, right, different components and say a flat screen digital display or plasma TV even because you know, when I think of recycling electronics, I'm always thinking of smartphones, tablets,

and computers. But really we're talking televisions, we're talking microwaves, We're talking about anything that's a consumer electronic, right, you know, not just the the stuff that Jonathan thinks of his consumer electronics because he has a very narrow view of the world. Um So, really we're looking at glass, plastic, and metals being the chief components that go into this whole recycling uh. And I thought it might be fun to talk a little bit about the outcome of that,

like why why do we recycle these things? How efficient is? It doesn't make sense because there are people who say that at least some things that we recycle, it doesn't make a whole sense to recycle them, and that is that is partially true. We actually just did a two part series on recycling for Forward Thinking. Yeah, so if you guys are aren't listening to Forward Thinking, you should

check that out and watch the video series two. It's I'm having a blast doing it and Lauren joins me and also the series writer Joe he's on that audio podcast too, and the three of us. Yeah, it's yes, there is an X. That is true. Uh, it's only for forward thinking. We do not have the AX for tech stuff. You don't get to see the AX, but you get to hear refer to it once in a rare while. But yeah, so so so so so glass.

Yeah so glass. This is one of the trickiest ones, right because glass, If you were to recycle glass, you end up saving about thirty of the energy you would need to manufacture glass out of raw materials. So that means that you're expending seventy of the energy that you would require if you were just starting from scratch, right,

So is not a huge amount of savings. And depending upon how the sorting facility does the sorting for glass, it can actually require more energy and time to sort through it starts to make the whole recycling process a bit questionable for certain communities. Not not the case everywhere. Some facilities have very sophisticated sorting equipment that make this go very easily. Others do not. So glass is one of those things that I recommend. If you can reuse

the stuff, reuse it. Uh. If you cannot reuse it, recycle it. The other part about glass that makes it kind of uh, you know, it makes it the least wasteful in a way is that the raw material that we use to make glass is plentiful since it's mainly sand. So it's not like we're running on a shortage of sand. We haven't hit peak sand yet, right. No, No, I think that of all of all the elements that we are concerned about, um and not that sand is an element.

That's right, that's all the elements in the sense of factors. Uh. And also glass is non toxic, so if it ends up in a landfill, at least you know it's not going to be I mean, assuming it's not lead glass, it's not going to be leaching toxins into the environment. We don't want glass to end up in landfill, so don't get me wrong there. I would much prefer that you reuse it if you can, or recycle it if you cannot. But keep in mind some recycling facilities end

up sending a lot of glass landfills anyway. I mean it just I I keep on hoping for the improvement there so that we don't have to worry about that, uh, Because mainly what I'm looking at here is an energy saving model, because if you're saving energy, that means that you are also emitting fewer greenhouse gases. This is a huge,

big picture thing. And also I mean also saving money, because what it really comes down to for you know, unfortunately, but this is the way the world works is is an economic factor of whether it is worth someone's time. Right right, then we have plastic, and plastic is actually a little more complicated, in fact, a lot more complicated, because there are a lot of different types of plastic and some are easier to recycle than others, like pet

plastic or polyethylene tariff thallt plastic. Good job, Yeah, it only took two tries, you guys. I hope missed the first try, unless Noel is feeling vindictive, in which case he kept it in there Noel is noncommittal anyway. So pet plastic this is the stuff that you see in like clear bottles, like plastic bottles, soda bottles, water bottles, that kind of thing that tends to be pet plastic.

And it's very easy for us to recycle that and if we if we do, we save eighty four percent of the energy we use in plastic production from raw materials and sevent of the greenhouse gas emissions, So eighty four percent less energy, fewer greenhouse gas emissions. Obviously, recycling this type of plastic makes sense from multiple perspectives. However, however, your electronics are not always made out of the same plastics that your soda bottles are. Yeah, so that that

is an issue. That does mean that, you know, not all of the types of plastic are going to save that same amount of energy and greenhouse gases. And part of that is just that the amount of plastic we produce, a lot of it is that pet plastic. So that's where a lot of the work has been done in recycling. So it's one of those things that as we continue to use these other types of plastic, I expect we'll have more improved processes for dealing with it in a

recycling uh perspective. But something else to keep in mind now when it comes to metals, Metals are one of those things that just makes perfect sense to recycle. Depending upon the metal, it can be a huge savings. So, for example, aluminium, you can save way more energy by recycling aluminum than you would if you were to try and produce aluminium by mining stuff and refining it and then and then using it in products. So it makes you save a lot of energy and fewer greenhouse gas

emissions if you just recycle. Yeah, I don't have the number in front of me that I remember being like over yeah, it's it's I think you end up spending like six percent of the energy you would need to produce it from raw materials if you're looking at the big picture, everything from the mining operation to all the way down to finally getting whatever the product is. So aluminium makes tons of sense. Steel is also a very good candidate. It's not nearly as uh big savings on

energy as aluminum is, but still good. And then there are a lot of precious metals that we tend to use in electronics, gold being one of the more popular ones. One of the more frequently found ones, but you can even find depending upon the device, you can even find stuff like platinum, which is pretty darn rare and extremely valuable. So you want to be able to reclaim as much of that as possible and not just toss it away. Plan them, by the way, not used in most common

consumer electronics. It's it's actually that would be hit the price point of you know, not really for consumers. This would be for the rich people who want to have ridiculously luxurious items. Uh that's a little editorializing, but it's also true anyway. But you can also find other other metals like copper. Copper is one of those that is

obviously really important in electronics. It's one of those conductors that we use over and over again, and so we want to reclaim as much of that as possible because there are reports that were hitting peak copper and that before long our copper that we're bringing in from mining operations is just going to start to drop, and that will affect the way the electronics market moves from that

point forward. So these are the items that were really interested in when we're recycling, assuming that you're not just reusing that device refurbishing it so that you extend the life. These are the sort of things that we can pull out of these devices and then use again, either in future electronics or you know whatever. Like most glass ends up becoming containers. Plastic, same thing. Most plastic ends up becoming a container. Aluminum, same thing. Most aluminum tends to

turn out to end up being aluminum cans. But it does mean that we don't have to spend the energy and time to get those raw materials, and also the environmental impact of getting those and those raw materials gets decreased. So it's a good idea. Um. Beyond that, there's some financial benefits or potential financial benefits, right, aren't there a bunch of tax programs in In effect, there are a lot of tax programs. It all depends on where you live.

Obviously within the United States. If you are donating a device to a nonprofit organization and official recognized nonprofit organization, not like your aunt, right, you can get a right off on your taxes, but you have to come to an agreement with the nonprofit organization as to how much

that particular device is valued. You know, you have to you have to figure out what the amount is for it, because if you're if you're donating a computer that's eight years old, it may be that there's negligible value there. A lot of these programs will make it pretty easy for you. Um most of them will will send you a free shipping label and and you know they want

you to do this. They you know, for for both environment environmental reasons and for you know, maybe not profit if they're a nonprofit, but but it's it's worth money, right And in fact, if you if you'd rather not go the nonprofit route, I mean, I don't know if you would rather sell your devices. Obviously, there are multiple ways of doing that. You could do that yourself. You

could sell it on something like Craigslist or eBay. Uh, there are certain programs where if you didn't want to sell it, you just wanted to give it away, but you know, you just want to get away to someone within your community. There are a lot of different organizations that do that here in Atlanta. I know that there's a community called free Cycle, which I assume is operating

in other communities as well. But on free Cycle, you would just go on and create a post very much like eBay or Craigslist and say here's what I have. I'm giving it away. The first person who wants it gets it. And uh, my wife loves that program. I have some interesting furniture because of it. And then there are things like Gazelle. Gazelle is just one of several different programs that will buy old electronics for you know,

whatever the value is at that time. Keeping in mind, electronics depreciate just like any other product, and the electronics something yeah. Yeah, So so you're gonna get You're gonna get a fraction of what you paid for it. But it does mean that you get some money back which you can then use to, you know, finance your habit of buying new electronics. I mean is addictive. I I've gone through a smart watch, crazy, Lauren. I don't own one yet, but I've got like five of them on

order now. I am not kidding. I ordered another one just the other day. So it's the Agent, the Pebble, the world's thinnest watch, which technically isn't a smart watch but is pretty cool. And then there was one more that I ordered just on indiego go or supported on indigog the other day. I've got a problem, Lauren, you I think I think that we need to take a moment and talk about this problem. And in the meanwhile, let us let us pause for a break, for a break, yeah,

from our sponsor. We'll take a quick break to thank our sponsor. Alright, we're back. I'm out of risk because of all the smart watches, but we're also uh, we're actually running on a tight schedule today. There's a couple of guys who need to come into the podcast studio in a minute, right, I've never heard of some guys, but they're recording their episode next. So we want to talk quickly about some of the responsibilities and dangers associated

with recycling. We we've alluded to them earlier, but we need to actually address them now. Uh yeah, um, so so interesting breaking news as of this morning, this morning being July, representatives of the U. S. Congress have have announced that they have a act that they're trying to pass called the Responsible Electronics Recycling Act a k arira um. This this would be an update of the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act, which was originally passed in the nineteen seventies,

nineteen seventy six to be precise. Um, and uh, it's it's updating it to to the basically just um prohibit the export of restricted electronic waste from the US two countries that are not members of responsible organizations that right that that that that regulate the way that these things are handled. And the reason for that is because electronics can have some pretty nasty stuff in them, like the plastics themselves can release lots of toxic materials as you

process them. Processing in this case may involve doing things like not just shredding it up and incinerating it, which can release some terrible toxins. But even when done responsibly, exactly, yeah, you have to have you have to have capture systems to capture those gases that are given off, and ideally you're not incinerating stuff in the first place, but some

of the stuff does get incinerated. Uh. But there's also a practice of dipping some of these things in acid baths to burn away everything other than the precious metals that you want to get at, and that can produce some terrible byproducts. The acids themselves are hazardous, then you get some byproducts that are dangerous. Some of the fumes that of off our toxic it can have health and

environmental impact of the community. All around. Even if you aren't directly exposed to it on a day to day basis as part of your job, it can impact your community. And in fact, there are areas in China that are known for being these toxic communities that are just filled with lots of of well, lots of toxic chemicals and as a result, people have suffered some pretty serious health

hazards health issues because of this. So that's why this act was proposed in the United States was to try and make sure that we create a responsible conduit for recycling so that we minimize the environmental and health impact that can happen as a result of coming into contact with the stuff. And you might think, well, what kind of stuff besides plastic are in electronics? All about mercury? That's pretty toxic stuff, fairly toxic, especially if you're if

you're just playing with it. Um lead, Yeah, yeah, these are things that can cause neurological issues. Both mercury and lead can cause neurologic cold problems, including things like blindness, cognitive issues, and prolonged exposure can lead to to deadly poisoning.

It can be fatal. You have stuff like cadmium, which can damage lungs and kidneys and cause environmental damage if that leaches into the ground if you were just to put in a landfill and sulfur sulf Sulfuric acid is one of the two elements along with lead that um again components not elements, apologies UM that that makes up every all of the batteries that you use, all the double A batteries, batteries that you're using there there are lots of batteries that have sulfur in them and that

can lead to sulfuric acid that can cause damage to kidneys, eyes, liver, and heart so uh and and you know the methods of recycling, like if you're actually recycling this stuff, you tend to be grinding it up into tiny little bits, especially for the plastic uh. So that can if you're incinerating any of that, that can cause problems. Obviously you can be dipping them in the acids like I said before,

or that's a problem. So it's you know, you want to make sure that this stuff is going to a responsible entity that is going to take care of this material and make sure one that it's doing its best to maintain the health and safety uh. Concerns of all of the employees and to just making sure that that material is actually getting recycled and not just dumped somewhere,

not just taking your money. Uh, because some of these centers are operating on contracts that are working with big companies or whatever, not just taking the money and then just dumping the stuff, but actually doing what they're supposed to be doing. So part of that process meant that there needed to be some sort of certification. There's some sort of third party certification that would guarantee that people

were being responsible and accountable. And there are a couple of different programs in the United States that have come up because of that. E Stewards is one of them. That's one I see all the time is the if it as the Eastwards certification on it, That means it's been inspected and certified by a third party entity and that it is behaving in a responsible manner when it

comes to recycling your products. So if you are thinking about recycling stuff, do your research, look into what is available in your area and see if it is in fact certified. Right d e p A actually has a like an interactive map up on their website that that breaks down a lot of local places that have been independently certified right. Another one is the responsible Recycling practices that's called r TOO. No notice there about what happened

to d too. But are two is there? Um? And also a lot of manufacturers have their own recycling programs, so you can look into the manufacturer that produced whatever the product is and see if they have a recommendation. Yeah, because there may be a program where you just send it right back to the company and then they will deal with it, or or even one of the places that you have purchased your electronics from might have a similar program like I I know that Staples and Best

Buy do write stuff like that. One thing that we need to bring up to your attention is what do you do with all that data that's on those devices? Because you don't want to just toss your stuff that has all your personal information on it or other information.

Britain researchers in Britain rent a program where they bought up three hundred used computers from various sources from various countries and then they wanted to see what kind of data they could find on them, and then about a hundred of them, so a third of the computers they bought. They found sensitive information, not just personal info like social security numbers, although they did find that they on one of them, they found a test launch information on ground

to air defense missiles. Yeah, not something you necessarily want to get out. There also medical records, so very sensitive stuff. This was from hospitals that had not properly disposed of the data. So if you want to donate some device that has your data on it, you have a couple of different options. I mean, of course, you could encrypt all that data. That will at least make it very difficult to access, and probably whoever gets hold of it doesn't necessarily want to act us it anyway. They want

to use the device. Right. But but but just reformatting your drive is not good enough because you have to reformat and overwrite that data to make it less accessible. Even then it's still potentially accessible. But there are a lot of programs out there that will overwrite your data with just nonsense, just junk zeros and ones essentially to uh obvious skate what was there and to to try

and destroy it. Really, the only way to destroy it is to physically destroy the drive, take it out and just smash it up into tiny little pieces, but one that's dangerous to that's probably excessive. So following these other methods is most likely to work. So but but you know, yeah, it's it's to be to be absolutely safe, you might hang on to the hard drive. Um, definitely take a

SIM card out of any mobile device, right. Um. But but basically, yes, wiping and encrypting definitely an important thing to do. I mean, I've told this story before I bought my Xbox three sixty used and the gamer information was still on there. The gamer who had owned the box before me had not wiped his or her data from the console. Now, I did do that, that was the first thing I did when I got it, But it was one of those things that's just a reminder,

you know, even for someone had been less honest than Jonathan. Yeah, which you know, hard to do. I'm a pretty big liar. Yeah. Anyway, So guys, that's kind of our episode. I know that it was a quick second half, but I can see Josh and Chuck just outside the podcast room, and Josh has got a bat and he's looking at me and slowly shaking his head. So I'm taking that as a cue that we should wrap up here. Keep in mind.

Recycling is good. We're totally in favor of it. Just do it responsibly, both for the environment, for people's health, and for your own personal data safety. All of these things are important. And uh, hey, I'm not gonna tell you not to buy another smart watch because I just saw one online that I want. Anyway, guys, you enjoyed this episode, you have any comments, you have something you want to share about it, or you have suggestions for future topics, Get in touch with us. Let us know.

Our address is tech stuff at Discovery dot com, or find us on Facebook or Twitter or handle of both of those is tech Stuff hs W and Lauren and I will talk to you again really soon for more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it has stuff works dot com