What's the deal with BitTorrent?

is Chris Pollette. I'm an editor here at how stuff works dot com and sitting next to me as usual as senior writer Jonathan Strijour though, Hey, and uh so today we're gonna be talking about bit torrent, yes, which has been in the news recently at the time of the recording of this podcast because of a tracker site called the Pirate Bay, which underwent a trial and got a guilty verdict. And uh we'll get into that a

little bit later. I guess really what we should do first, it's kind of just give you guys an explanation of what bit torrent is and how it works. Um so, really it's it's a file distribution method right, yep. As a matter of fact, it's it's in some ways very similar to a lot of other file sharing protocols that have been used in the past, like nat Ella and the old style napsture. But in other ways, Yeah, but in other ways it's not right. So let's uh, let's

let's take baby steps here. Let's go with the way downloading something off the internet usually works in the traditional sense. So and the Internet, you know, think of you've got your your servers, and you've got your clients. You're using a computer that's a client, and you're trying to access a file that lives on a server. And so you send out a message from your clients saying I want this file, and the server responds with oki doki, I'll send it all over and starts shooting that file over

to you in little bity packets. And uh, depending on how busy that server is, how busy the the the lines are really between your house and that server, uh, and several other factors, it may take a really long time to download that file. Um. If you don't have broadband internet access, it's gonna take a lot longer. If you have DSL, that'll take you know, a shorter amount of time, and cable generally even shorter um all depends

on again, your your individual service. At any rate, you're downloading that from that one single source, and if anything happens to that source while you're downloading, that's gonna put a hold on the download. So that's your your traditional method. You've got the one source, and you've got a lot of different clients all uh contacting that source to get

hold of that information. That's right, sort of like uh, a little while ago, earlier this year, when Microsoft made it's a Windows seven beta available for down load, they said, well, you have until this time to get your hands on the download, and then everybody did and you couldn't get through, and it was it was sort of like trying to call for a contest line in a radio station busy signals saying sorry, we don't have any more of those

right at the moment. Please wait. That's actually a really really apt comparison, which amazes me just as much as it amazes all of you. Hey, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm not feeling well, that's all. I'm just sniping, is what I'm doing. Alright, So anyway. The but no, that is that is the case. If you could um uh, if you had any sort of service where it was one server or a bank of servers that all had this information on it and that was it, then yeah,

you can get overloaded very quickly. But file sharing, the way this model works is that you have files existing on other computers and instead of grabbing the file from one single server, you're grabbing bits of the file from various other computers, uh and then putting it together on your computer. Actually you're not doing this, a client is

doing this for you. Um and uh. And then ultimately you get the file all in one piece and um, because you're grabbing bits and pieces from different computers all at the same time, you're actually downloading different parts of the file uh simultaneously, and you can get that file

very very quickly ult speaking. Well, yeah, that's true, that's true. Um. Of course, with all the file sharing going on right now, um, with things like music and movies and TV programs, uh, that would make it pretty easy to track you if you went by the normal method. I mean, if somebody like the r I A A or m P A A were wanting to find the source of the downloads

and and uh come after you with a lawsuit. Um, that would make it very easy, which is why some of the newer file sharing protocols have sort of helped money the waters a little bit by spreading out the downloads. Yes, um, you know in a distributed network. Right, so let's say you're looking at well, let's let's look at bit torrents specifically. Unlike other file sharing services, you're using a a an

application that is specifically designed to UM download torrents. You've you tell it where to find these files, or you might have a search engine connected to it, or you may go to a torrent tracking site to kind of get pointed in the right direction. You select the file you want, and then the you know, you're a little client does all the rest of the work. Um, you're

bypassing the whole web browser model. You're not you're not downloading that way, and you're You've got two different kinds of of sort of a computers I guess you could call them, um, that are involved in this system. You've got your seeds, which are computers that have the full file from start to finish and are making it available for download for anyone using this particular service, this a

bit torrent service. Uh. And then you have peers, which are the computers that are attempting to download this file and are somewhere along the spectrum of of completion. So they may have just started, they may be almost finished, but if they don't have the full file, they're just appear they're not a seed yet. Now, as you complete your download, you can switch from being a peer to a seat if you choose, you can. You can say,

you know what, I got my file. I'm glad I've got it, but I'm gonna let other people try and get this file for a while too, So I'm just gonna let it stay active. And Uh. That way people can go ahead and grab it and and you know, I'll help out people the way people helped me out. And and the more people do that, the faster these files can can distribute across a network, and it almost spreads viral e And Uh, there's nothing illegal about this

method of file distribution. It's just a way of getting information from one computer or really several computers to other computers. There's nothing wrong about that. There are problems when people use this to distribute material that's under copyright. Oh, we're back to that. Well, eventually, we're gonna have to get back to it. We don't have to go right to it right at this moment. But but a lot of people assume that bit torrent equals illegal, and that is

not the case. There are plenty of legitimate uses for bit torrent that are completely legal. Has nothing to do with the way bit torrent works. It has to do with the way people use bit torrent. So if you're using it to distribute, say I don't know, like an operating system that you've designed that if you you want to get out there in the world, that's perfectly fine, there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to use

it to distribute I don't know, spore that that's wrong. Yeah, I don't think e A would be very thrilled with you, So you should not do that. And the thing is, um, you know, people have come down on people who create file sharing protocols because they say, well, you are causing software piracy or you know, other kinds of piracy, and uh, that's in this case, it's just a more efficient distribution method.

I mean, it's you know, just because the file is available somewhere doesn't mean that the torrent sites are necessarily uh, they're they're providing access to it, but they're not providing the files themselves, which is sort of a gray area as some people feel. Yeah, we'll get into that with the Pirate Bay in a minute, um, which I'll have a few things to say. Really, I find it hard to believe that you have a strong opinion. Yeah, it's kind of difficult to imagine, right, Um, but we'll get

to that. So, so getting back to this distribution thing. Um. One of the reasons why this is such a good idea when you're trying to distribute large files across the network is that you may notice when you use the Internet that there's a different You have a differ and rate of data transfer speeds between uploading and downloading. Usually your upload speed is a fraction of what your download speed is, So you may be able to download things lightning fast, but you know when you're trying to upload

something it takes a while longer. Well, if you're trying to upload a really large vial, obviously that's going to take even longer than that. If you have a lot of different computers all providing uploads of this information at the same time, it cuts down on that because I mean otherwise, what you would have is if someone were trying to download the file, they'd only be able to go as fast as you could upload. Right. That's right,

that's you. They would be no matter how fast their download speed was, they'd be limited by how fast you could upload the information. That's right. That's that's called an asymmetrical connection. And that's where the A and A D s L comes from. Right, if you've ever been curious, um, And that's pretty much the standard model for most consumer

uh internet access right now. I mean, if you are a large company, you'd have a T three or something even faster probably um, and you know, your speeds would be more symmetrical. That's that's sort of a typical home

connection right there. Right. And and so when you know, since we're talking about lots of people just using regular computers to distribute these files as opposed to you know, servers that you would find in like a data center or something, uh, chances are you'd run into that asymmetric model.

And so with you, when you have more computers operating using you know, making these files available, you get around those low upload speeds because you're taking bits and pieces from lots of different computers, so it kind of balances out that that, you know that upload speed um without it, transferring big files would take forever. So it is a

good idea. It's just that people have been using it for nefarious purposes, which is of course cast a kind of shadow over the entire format um, which is really unfortunate because there's nothing like, you know, a few bad apples, or in the case of bit Torrent, I'm sure there's lots and lots of them ruining something that's really innovative and useful. You know, this definitely has a place on the Internet, and unfortunately most people associate with something that's legal.

So now you have to get over that hump in order to be able to say this is really a legitimate way of getting information from from these computers to other computers. Well, I mean, if you think about it in a completely different way, um, you know, something like using net which has been around forever and ever and ever. Um, you know, it's a great way to have, uh, you know,

constructive conversations, to share different hobbies and things. They're they're great for message boards, but then now they've become storehouses for wares, you know, cracked computer software, and um, you know as a result. I remember the day that I heard that my Internet service provider was going to start metering the amount of time you could spend on using net and the amount of information you could share. And I thought, why using net? I mean, people don't really

use using net anymore for for message boards. Well, as it turns out they do, and they're using it for all kinds of other things. So it's it's another technology that's you know, really neat for you know, one thing, but can be misused for other purposes. And you know, as soon as they do, you know, they find out

and start cracking down on it. And bit to warrent is just probably the one of the latest and more famous examples of those kinds of technology, you know, that can be misused, and you know, people come down on the in this case the bit torrent folks for enabling other people to share files and and not just yeah,

and and not just from a copyright standpoint either. Um. We've also seen I s p s come down on people using bit torrent clients or to uh you know, the the big famous cases Comcast throttling customers download speeds when trying to use bit torrent um. You could argue, I assume that some of the the like m P A A and r I double A would price say, uh, this is not you know, thrawlings necessary, so we can we can discourage piracy. But again, as we pointed out,

you can use bit torrent legally to distribute files. If Comcast throttles, you know, the torrent files, uh wants to say, like it could be a completely legitimate use for that. And then suddenly the whole purpose of this this model, which is to make the the process much more smooth and fast, it's invalidated because you've just put the brakes on the system. So um, yeah, there's there's a lot of there are a lot of people who don't really care for the distribution method. But it's not the users,

it's everybody else. Well, okay, so take yourself out of the consumer shoes and put yourself on the shoes at the I s P. Let me, let me twirl my mustache and uh and and tie someone to the railroad tracks. Okay, I'm in the mindset right, So you're kind asked and you're throttling bandwidth or or like, uh, you know those two blog posts that I wrote not too long ago about Time Warner thinking about capping bandwidth uh per month.

You know they their claim when they do things like that is that they're trying to manage their network better. And um, you know, say you're using bit torrent for something completely legit. You know, every file you upload or download is completely on the level, there's nothing illegal about it. But from your I s P s perspective, dude, you're

really using a lot of bandwidth. Um, that's the amount of information you're sending, by the way, not to be jargon e. So you know they have a depending on how you look at it, legitimate and you know, legitimate reason for wanting or you know, for being concerned about the amount of traffic going over their network because um, for example, if you're a cable user, everybody in your neighborhood who is also a cable user, you're using part of their bandwidth. So if you are using way more

than everybody else, you're slowing their connection down. Um. So if you're on that kind of a can action, your I s P may actually have a vested interest in keeping, you know, keeping you from using a whole lot of bandwidth, whether it's by throttling it, or by setting a cap and saying, hey, look, fella, you're using a whole lot of information here, can you tone it down. If you don't, we're going to charge you for it. So, I mean they, you know, I could see why they might say that.

Of course, you might also say that they're being very greedy. You know, they're they you know, it's their network. I have no way of knowing how much traffic is going over it for real or not. But um, that that's their reason for that's their stated reason for wanting to slow people down. Yeah. I know quite a few people who would call shenanigans. You know, like I said, I don't have I don't have a a window. You can defend them all you like, Pallette, I mean, we know

that you're a corporate puppet. Of course. Um, no, seriously, the no, you have a good point. Um, there could very well be that there there are bandwidth issues, especially when you get to the last mile problem. Yeah, um, you get into the like the neighborhood level of of of bandwidth. Um, it could be that, like, you know, two people using bit torrent to download huge files could really impact the experience of an entire neighborhood I mean,

it's it is possible for that to happen. Well, we're not in one of those countries where we pay five dollars a month and get a hundred megabit per second DSL. Not yet. We're kind of hoping for the new CTO and the c I O to kind of help change that. No,

it's not gonna matter actually that. But yeah, some people would also argue that this is really just a case of saying, you know, a clear illustration that the I s p s need to UM to solve the last mile problem and to find a way to get those uh, those faster connections to you know it, maybe running fiber to the home UM instead of just to whatever, you know,

the trunk or whatever. UM, then maybe we would not have to worry so much about this band with issue, and then we could see if it really is a bandwidth problem or if it's just a hey, how can we monetize this issue? UM, I know which side I'm betting on. I won't go into it. So I guess

this eventually brings us around to the tracker sites. UM. These are the sites that that are like search engines for torrents, and UM they discover torrents, and they track them and they allow users to uh to tap into them, and but they don't host anything themselves. They're just it's just kind of like a very specialized Google, but it's meant for torrents. Right. So you have a whole bunch of these out on the Internet. There's like is a hunt and all tons and tons. But the one that

got into the news most recently was the Pirate Bay. Now, the Pirate Bay by its very name suggests some nefarious behavior that that is, uh, that is some maybe negative marketing. I would definitely argue that the Pirate Bay founders brought an awful lot of the the problems they faced on themselves by their attitude, by the way they marketed themselves, by the very name of the site they created. Um, you can't really get around the fact that, you know,

they were they were promoting a certain kind of behavior. Uh. They still didn't host anything that was under a copyright on their own site, they just linked to it. Uh. However, there were charges brought against the four founders of the Pirate Bay. Um. And by the way, the Pirate Base uh servers are in Sweden, and so as the Swedish courts that prosecuted the founders, and uh, the two main charges that were brought against them were copyright infringement and

assisting copyright infringement. Now, after the opening statement of the Pirate Base lawyer, the the prosecution dropped the copyright infringement charge because it was clear that there was no way to really get them on that they didn't host the material, um, so they couldn't be directly responsible. However, the assisting copyright infringement charge stuck. It went all the way to trial, went all the way through, and they got a guilty verdict.

The four founders were sentenced to a year in prison and three point five nine million dollars US in damages two companies like Warner Brothers, which you know obviously are hurting for money. Um. That was just a snide comment. So anyway, the here's the issue as I see it. Yes, the Pirate Bay promoted uh this kind of behavior, um, which maybe that that was all it took to really push them over to the assisting copyright infringement section. Well,

they didn't tell you where to go. Yeah, but that's the problem is that any search engine will tell you where to go. So let's say you go to a quote unquote legitimate torrent trackings. Let's say we go to one that is not meant specifically to allow people to to UH distribute copyright right material across the network. Um, some people still do that, right, So you've got people who are doing you who are using the system specifically to get access to material they do not legally have

the right to own. Um. But that's not the purpose of the site. Now, if the courts would still pronounce those companies guilty, I have a major problem. And the reason is because essentially you are saying that by linking to material that's under copyright, you are assisting copyright infringement.

But everybody links at some point or another to something that could be infringing on a copyright and it's because you have really no control over you know, once you link to someone, you have no real control over what's on that site. They could change it. They could change

it as soon as you linked. Would they could change it, you know, a year down the road and it or it could be that, you know, you see this great article and like you know, we often linked to UH to outside sources, to to other articles things like that. If someone were to use an image, for example, and they did not have the express permission or the legal right to use that image. Would that mean that we

would be liable because we assisted in copyright infringement? After all, if we linked to that site, theoretically we were helping drive traffic to that site, you know. And then you think, okay, well that would mean that search engines like Google, Could they be liable because if you type in any sort of real search term, I guarantee use one of those search results somewhere down the line is going to link to something that's going to infringe on copyright in some

way or another. Would Google be liable because they're again allowing traffic to get to this material. You can basically prosecute just about everybody on the Internet. Yeah. And the ultimate result of this, I mean, I don't think it will ever go this far. This is kind of dragging it to the ultimate conclusion is that everyone would be afraid to link to everyone else, so everything would remain internal and instead of a web you would have a

series of columns. Every website would be a column and you could find pages within that column, but there was no way for you to get from that website to another website because that other website might have copyright material on it, sure, and that that would be the slippery slope in this case. Yeah, so that that's my rant. Okay, you did a great job. Now, granted again, Pirate Bay guys didn't do themselves any favors. They made it really really easy for a court to go after them. Yeah,

they kind of flaunted their their intentions, I think. Yeah. Yeah, So, I mean it remains to be seen if this goes any further than that. Um, well, we'll just have to wait and see. But the technology itself is is really very a very elegant way to handle the problem of how to download large files, especially over slower networks or or networks with slower pieces in them, since we're all running at different speeds on this on this network. So yeah, yeah, I think it's a great I think it is a

great method. It just you just gotta look out for the people who are using it for the wrong reasons. Yep, yep, pretty much like every other piece of technology ever invented. I'm done. Do you have anything else? No, I don't really have anything else that well, I guess that that brings us around to uh, listener Maid I wasn't expecting that. So here we go, Hi guys, you know from Hawaii. Here.

I was listening to one of your podcasts, and at the end of the listener mail section you invited us the listeners to send you hi kus because Josh and Chuck won't read them anymore or something like that. So here it is intelligent duo, the tech Wizards John and Chris will guide the Tech News. Smiley face. Now, it wasn't that awesome. I love the show and I listened to all the house Stuff Works podcasts. Juno in sunny Hawaii where it happened to be eighty six degrees today. Aloha, Juno,

thank you very much for the high k that was great. Um, it's actually we're in Atlanta, so eighty six degrees is you know that It's not too far off from where we usually are at this time of year. But I'm sure some of our listeners in the cold reaches of the world are ridding their teeth right now. Yeah. Yeah, except no one else has the joint percent humidity that

we go on. Well, I don't know, no offense. If you go, let me tell you a few Here's a little bit of tribute for it to lett Kona, Hawaii gets the most rainfall out of any city in the United States. All right, then there you go. You can take that to the bank. And it has an extensive coffee too. Also, they have some really cool sea turtles. Okay, okay, so there you go. If any of you have any high cups or suggestions or corrections anything like that, you want to write to us, you can do so text

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