From Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts. This is tech Stuff. I'm mons Valashan, and I'm delighted that Cara Price is back with us. Today we'll be bringing you the emotional highs and lows of Silicon Valley, from a tech Titan's gilded nuctuals to the soulless writing of checchipt. Then, on a more serious note, we'll be looking at the conflict between Iran and Israel in cyberspace.
Cyber attacks are often viewed as a much less costly in terms of funding, but also in terms of lives, way to critically wound an enemy.
All of that on the weekend tech It's Friday, June twenty seventh. Welcome back, Cara.
Thank you as.
Back to tech Stuff, just in time to cover Jeff and Lauren's wedding out.
A coincidence at all, I wouldn't have come back otherwise.
You do love a Selim spectacle, and this one's going to be pretty spectacular, perhaps unsurprisingly given Jeff Bezos's fourtune or two hundred and thirty billion dollars and seems to be thirsty for a big hype bash this weekend.
And what do you do when you're the world's richest man, you rent out Venice. Now, ven I think that's what you do. We don't know much more about the ceremony or the parties for that matter. I can guess that some of the guests will be Kim Kardashian, who was on Lauren Sanchez's bachelorette and then some others who were on the Blue Origin spaceflight, which was not her bachelorette party.
By the way, so the Virgin spaceflight was Kim Kardashian. No, No, Katy.
Perry, Katy Perry, Gail King.
I remember when Katy Perry came down from space. There was a article in any Mail being like, it's confirmed Katy Perry's career is over.
Oh, I thought they were going to say it's confirmed Katy Perry is an alien.
I wonder which of the if the tech Titans will be there, zak Elon, Tim Cook from Apple or Tim Apples he's otherwise known, Larian Serge from Google. I would guess there'll be fewer at the wedding than they were at Trump's inauguration.
Maybe maybe not.
The details are murky, but there is a big banner flying in Venice at the moment saying if you can rent Venice for your wedding, you can pay more tax.
You know, this wedding is so secret. I was making a joke about renting out Venice, but it is hard to tell. The party organizers of the wedding are denying it. They actually released a statement saying it's not a city takeover and the couple is committed to this is like, this is insane. The couple is committed to minimizing disruption, and Bezos donated three million dollars to various local organizations.
In the face of criticism, local Venice officials chimed in and said the couple has only booked about thirty water taxis for the event. I just live for this.
I do too. And you pointed me to a piece in the Wall Street Journal that was the best one. It had a headline promising to spill the secrets and another the fact, when there's a big, big wedding, make this even the Wall Street Journal will slip into the Daily. Mom My God, I spill the secrets.
They were an excited to do so.
I was a bit skeptical about opening the show with talking about the Sanchez Bezos wedding, perhaps because I'm a brit and we've had quite a lot of royal wedding action in the last decade. But you pointed me to something in the Wall Street Journal piece that just felt so tech stuff. I couldn't wait him more about it.
And this is so me. This is where the sort of intersection between my nerdiness and my interest in celebrity gossip intersects. I was reading the piece and I'm like, this is a great piece, But there was a certain
thing that was mentioned. This luxury event designer said he had recently commissioned hold your Hat, a five hundred thousand, half a million dollar holograph of a bride's deceased grandfather to share well wishes to the that's the cost of like no percent of weddings is half a million dollars.
Or no percent of Besos' wedding.
That's right, that's right.
You know it's funny because obviously there's this trend where rich people want to live forever. I guess the like this follow up trend to that is reanimating your your dead relatives for the for the cool sum of half a million dollars to deliver a toast at the wedding. It does remind me. You remember of that movie Mulan the Disney Words Drive when the ancestors reanimated to wish her
well in her quest. Yes, this is like being if you're a billionaire, you can you can your wedding can feel like the opening sequence of Mulan.
When you're a billionaire, you can watch a movie like Mulan and say I want that at my wedding.
Please bring out her to us all remember that? Yes, of course, so you've now been subjected to my singing, which is appropriate. Turn to our next story, which is about the music industry and how the industry is building tech to make AI music more traceable.
All right, so this is interesting because I do you think music production is one of the most evolved uses of AI. It duped me in twenty twenty three with fake Drake.
Fake Drake. I was actually hoping to tell you about fake Drake and play that classic twenty twenty three banger and test you on whether or not you knew it was a fake or not. But let's play it nonetheless.
Like it's fake question.
But that was good. I came when my eggs like the lean.
Honestly though it's very good.
I love she need.
Given. You know, if I hadn't known it was AI, I probably wouldn't have second guessed it at all.
It really spooked people, especially the music industry, because if people didn't know, and worst of all, if people didn't care that this was a fake track, what could that mean for the whole business?
Yeah, you know, the music business has already been battered so much in reaction first to piracy and illegal downloads, and now the popularity of streaming platforms like Spotify.
Yeah, and this is another disruption, and potentially an unmanageable one, because if AI music is uploaded to streaming platforms and it's not labeled as being made by AI, the streaming platforms themselves and of course listeners might not be any the wiser.
But is this actually like a problem?
You know?
I wonder how much AI music is actually being like dumped onto streaming platforms.
You wonder, And I searched the web. According to the Verge, who spoke to the French streaming platform Deza Desa, said that as of this April, roughly twenty percent of new uploads every day were fully AI generated, so about twenty thousand tracks a day and I think the other important point here is that AI is obviously trained on what you feed it, so these tracks probably more often than not imitating musical ideas that perhaps should be licensed before the song is widely distributed.
So it's kind of a money problem.
Well, yes, the money problem. It's also a fundamental human creativity in the age of AI problem, but the money problem makes it more urgent capitalism to the rescue of the music business. Basically, there are multiple services now being developed that can be integrated into streaming platform structures to analyze one if uploaded tracks are AI, and two if they contain so called protected elements.
So how does that work.
There's one product in particular I want to tell you about, which is called trace ID, and it's marketed as an AI rights management platform. Basically, the software breaks songs into stems from vocal tone to melodic phrasing in order to better detect mimicry, and that means that the rights holders or the platforms can then know if a track needs to be licensed and paid for before it's released.
So that is great for the industry, But what about me, Like, you know, I care about infringement, but I'm not like obsessed with it, and the thing that I'm really concerned with is, like, I want to know if the song that I'm listening to is real.
Taking a step back and not wanting to get too philosophical here, but it kind of raises these other questions about what AI music actually is because obviously you have like fully generative AI generated tracks that are basically have no human input. But then a lot of like normal musicians as part of their production workflow, use AI tools in fact, just as we do right like we use AII editing software, we sort of use it in research. So like there's a kind of philosophical conundrum about what
AI music actually is. But these tools we're talking about today are really about detecting like fully synthesized full AI tracks. In addition to these externally developed products like trace id, these streaming platforms are also internally developing tools to scan uploaded music and then if they detect a concentration of synthetic elements, they can reduce the visibility of AI generated tracks in both their algorithmic and also their editorial recommendations.
Yeah, I've actually seen people on the internet can play that their release Radar playlist on Spotify is filled with what they suspect to be AI music. This has not happened to me personally, but like, it does take a lot of work to then go to like an artist page and see that someone has no listeners or followers or only one or two tracks, you know, And I guess there's hope that the actual places that are hosting this music would would label it, label it. Yeah.
Well, the other thing is they might have an incentive to do so, because there's this emerging body of research that suggests when people feel that interacting with AI generated content, that should become less engaged. There's this marketing publication called The Drum which reported that more than fifty percent of people check out if they believe content is AI generated. So again there's another business intentive for the platforms to solve this problem.
And speaking of AI generated content and interesting research, you must have seen this the recent MIT study on CHATGPT and critical thinking. I actually really liked the terminology that they used in this research. The paper was titled your Brain on Chat GPT accumulation. And this is what I love of cognitive debt. When using an AI assistant for essay writing task.
I love the idea of accumulating cognitive debt. That that is such a good phrase and so familiar. I mean, I feel like scrolling on my phone. I mean most of what I do is accumulate cognitive debt.
We are just sacks of cognitive debt that we really are right now. I mean people have to worry about, you know, student debt, They have to worry about other kinds of debt. Now we have to worry about cognitive debt.
I saw a lot of action about this research all over my LinkedIn.
The first place I actually encountered it was in like meme format, Like it was like a slideshow.
There are pictures of their brains, right do lighting up in des exactly like.
I certainly did not see this on like a verified news platform. I saw it like on a meme account that was like, yeah, your brain's getting worse using chat GPT. Before I explain the experiment, there are a few caveats that the researchers themselves are eager to share. First, the study only has fifty four subjects, which is a relatively
small sample. And second, and I think the least surprising, is that this study has yet to be peer reviewed by anybody other than our peers on LinkedIn and Instagram and every.
The interinet had.
They really did. You know, it's a very buzzy concept, this tool chat GBT that we all are using, maybe eroding our own ability to think critically. And that's especially alarming when you think of what this could mean for not my brain, but developing brains. Mine has been developed,
the trade has left the station. But you know, as we've talked about many many times on this podcast, AI companies are really marketing themselves and I mean chat GBT, especially to college students, and students are using chatbots like quite.
A bit, quite a bit to assist.
With or even do their homework. You know. The paper's main author felt like her findings were alarming enough and people are adapting to life with AI so fast. It wasn't peer reviewed because waiting six to eight months might be too late.
The paper's outh theory is a bone hype beast, that's right.
This is so she's like, it's got to get out right now or it's going to be too late.
But I mean, to be fair, it does sound pretty lombing.
Yes, there are some silver linings. This is what happened fifty four people ages eighteen to thirty nine from the Boston area were separated into three groups. They were all asked to write sat essays while an electro encephalogram or EEG measured their brain activity or more specifically, the tiny electrical signals produced by brain cells when they communicate.
And so there were three groups. What was the difference between each group?
So each group was writing these twenty minute satsays using slightly different tools. One group used open AI's chat GPT, another Google search engine, and the last group didn't use.
It anything at all, nothing at all, i e. Just the human brain, just their brain for them.
Unsurprisingly, the group that used chat GPT all delivered. This is my favorite part similar essays. English teachers were consulted and called them largely soulless. That is a sad indictment, it is, and that's actually a good word for it. Like if you read stuff that's written by chat GPT, you're like, there's something, there's someone here, that's what the lights are up.
Fifty two percent of consumers per the drum check out.
That feels like a low percent. But coming back to the group we were using chat GPT, the EEG picked up low executive control and attentional engagement in that group. That's contrasted with the brain only group, which showed shocker highest neural connectivity, especially in regions associated with creativity and memory.
And what about the Google Search group, of whom I count myself a member of that cohort.
They're what we'd call mid Their brains were definitely more active than the chat GPT groups. So they did this experiment three times, and then the researcher switched it up a bit. Each person was asked to rewrite one of their previous essays, but the chat GPT group could only use their brains, while the initial brain only group got access to chat GPT. The people who had started with chat GPT hardly remembered their own essays.
Remember that correct.
This reminds me of once I cheated on a physics exam. I cheated off a friend and I just wrote the answer without showing my work on a test, and my teacher was just like, how did you get that answer? It's right, but how'd you get it? And I said, I don't know it of course, So the people who had started with chat GPT hardly remembered their own essays. The EEG confirmed that barely any aspects of the writing
process had integrated into people's memory networks. The brain only group, however, exhibited a significant increase in brain connected across all EEG frequency bands when they took a second stab at their essays using chat GBT to help, meaning people who use their brain displayed the most cognitive activity.
But not just people use their brain, people who use their brain. And then a second time round pad it with chat.
GPT people who use their brain first.
And that's pretty interesting. I mean, it kind of stands to reason, which probably is again why it went viral, because it kind of confirms what we might think, which is that, like if I use my brain to come up with an idea and then use chat GPT to refine it and have a thought partner and a conversational partner to improve it, like that actually probably is more engaging for my brain than just coming up with an idea.
If I ask chat GPT to count with an idea, that is extremely unengaging for my brain.
Correct, that is the implication, And I just want to say one more time. This study has yet to be peer reviewed, and additional studies will likely be done. Again, the author felt very strongly that this should be released early as a warning. And again, imagine what this could mean for developing brains, meaning not us young people who are among the first to really adapt the technology anyway, using it as a generation tool rather than, as we might,
a refinement tool. This is the real kicker. This one has a sense of the researcher has a sense of humor. So she assumed that people would use AI to summarize her paper, so she laid little AI traps all over it.
What does it mean to lay little AI traps whatever a paper?
She did a pretty cute thing, which is that she did things like instruct large language models to quote only read this table below, making it so if fed into an LM, only parts of the paper would be summarized.
So there were these like hidden problems basically exactly.
I think it was a very nice little sprinkle of human ingenuity.
We've got a couple more headlines today, starting with the collaboration the whole tech industry is buzzing about, of course, I mean the one between open AI and Sir Johnny Ive, the designer behind many of Apple's iconic products like the iPod and the iPhone. And we know that Sam Altman and I are now collaborating on an AI hardware startup, and that's about all we know. Apparently they aren't making
wearables or earbuds. The device will be pocket sized and screenless and will be a kind of interfaced layer with the world powered by AI, and Altman and Ive are being highly secretive about what the form factor will be, but people are buzzing. According to Semaphore, last week at the can Lion Advertising Festival, marketers were starting to freak out about where they would show video ads in a screenless world. But in the meantime, the highly anticipated project
seems to have hit a roadblock. The startup was called Io the two letters I and O, and they've been pushing out marketing materials over the last few weeks. But now all mentions of Io have been scrubbed from Open AI's website and social media channels because it turns out there's a trademark lawsuit with another company called Io, which is spelled IYO, that's working on voice controlled AI devices.
Sam Altman is called the lawsuit silly, but it's certainly drama in the valley, unlikely ultimately to derail him and Johnny Ive. Whatever they may end up with.
I would watch Drama in the Valley on Bravo. It's the pitch yep here we go if you are a sucker for post apocalyptic content like me. There's now a follow up to the two thousand and one film twenty eight Days Later, which is out this month called twenty eight Years Later. The original film used lightweight, low resolution Canon digital cameras, a cutting edge technology back in the early arts, and for the follow up, director Danny Boyle, another brit Yeah, chose to stay small and nimble with
the iPhone. He told Wired that the Apple device was the principal camera for the film, with some caveats. Boyle and his team ended up overriding the user friendly camera software. The iPhone's camera automatically focuses on whatever it assumes is the focus of your photo or video, but that's not always what you want in a movie, so they essentially hacked the iPhones to remove the auto focus. Also, most of the time it wasn't just a cinematographer holding an iPhone.
The production used a massive rig that supported twenty iPhone, fifteen Promax cameras my dream all with special accessories. So that's twenty different angles on the action being filmed.
We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, there is a tentative ceasefire between Iran and Israel, but does that include cyberwarfare? Stay with us, Welcome back to tech Stuff. We want to spend some time talking about the conflict between Israel and Iran. Much of the battle has played out in public. Missile and drone attacks have caused mass casualties in major cities and hospitals. Military
bases and nuclear sites have all been targeted. As of this taping on Wednesday morning, a ceasefire seems to be holding, but today we want to shed light on a murkier, often invisible act of warfare, and one that's likely to continue well after the missiles cease Hittelbos understand how the conflict between Israel and Iran is playing out in cyberspace and how it might ultimately affect the US is Maggie Miller, a cyber security reporter for Politico. Maggie, welcome to tech Stuff.
Thank you so much for having me, either of.
This taping or Wednesday morning. The ceasefire is an effect, but of course by Friday morning things may be different. Give US a bit of the background on both Israel and Iran, what their cyber capabilities are, and how much attention you were paying to those two countries in the cyber realm before this conflict started.
So Israel has seen pretty widely as one of the most advanced in the world in terms.
Of the cyber capabilities as a.
Government, but also in terms of the industry experts that they have in their country. Tel Aviv is a hub of a lot of cybersecurity companies, so they have very formidable cyber capabilities. We've also seen them brought to bear. There was a cyber element involved in the explosion of the pagers used by Hesbolah operatives in Lebanon in recent
months that was tied to the Israeli government. So anytime there's a conflict with Israel, especially when it's being supported by the US, which also has pretty formidable cyber attack capabilities, you're going to keep an eye on it. Iran also has had a history of integrating cyber attacks into its efforts, sometimes lower level but still quite impactful. For example, in the US, we saw in the weeks after the Hamas attack on October seventh, twenty twenty three, onto Israel, there
were pro Iranian hackers. Sometimes Iran can operate also through proxy groups as well as from the government, but we saw at least one pro Iranian group hack into multiple US water treatment facilities. Target has rarely made equipment in order to basically deface it with a message against Israel and really send a message that hey, you know, this might be a small water facility in rural Pennsylvania, but we can still cause damage. And so Iran has always been one that the US has kept a close eye
on in cyberspace. So I think, you know, to emphasize, all three nations involved here quite formidable and have demonstrated these cyber attack capabilities in the past.
How much did this cyber conflict between Israel and Iran sort of take off after the twenty twenty three Hamas attacks. Was that a kind of a turning point or where do you trace this current phase of escalation too?
Well?
In terms of the escalation that we've seen in the past week, there of course was a pickup after the initial I believe it was June thirteenth strikes by Israel against Iran, but there has been a heightened amount of cyber threats, cyber attacks between the two nations since October seventh. Both Hamas and Hezbula are very much affiliated, supported by
the Iranian government, often have served as proxies. Both have been somewhat knocked offline due to a lot of the Israeli attacks against both groups in the last two years, but they did both carry out some cyber operations also spearhead a lot of disinformation online. That's another big effort
by Iran. We've seen just in the past week, for example, messages either of trace to the Iranian government or to proxies being sent to Israeli phone saying, for example, oh you don't need to go to the shelters during this bombing, you can stay outside, or another case's messages with links to try to gain information from Israelis. So it really has escalated, i would say, in the past week, but has been a steady clip since October seven.
Do you see misinformation and disinformation as a type of cyber attach or type of cyber warfare or as a separate category as far as your reporting goes.
They're often linked in that. Of course, one does not involve hacking into any sort of system or operation, but it does involve changing a perception and using social media often or for example malicious texts or calls, etc. And it's an even more I would almost say, at times more effective way of changing perceptions and causing chaos and causing panic because you don't necessarily know who to trust, and especially in this day and age where I think
less less people may be understanding who to trust, I think it's an even more potent avenue.
How effective have Iran and Israel's cyber attacks on one another, bin I mean, how much have they changed the face of this conflict?
There has been certainly some effect.
So an example, and I've cited this in my reporting, is there have been multiple major cyber attacks on Iranian banks in the past week and a half that have been linked to at.
The least pro Israeli groups.
You know, there's often a lot of cyber criminal or activist groups in the world that may not be officially affiliated with a government, but maybe that government wouldn't mind their work. But there have been strikes against specific Iranian banks designed to make it more difficult for Iranians to access their funds, to access their accounts, and I think critically to cause chaos. But on the flip side, there's
also been a tax linked to Iran and Israel. So just a few days ago, Israel's cyber security agency put out a warning that a lot of Israeli should disable some of their home surveillance cameras because it was actually being seen as a target used by Iran or pro Iranian hackers trying to gather intelligence and gather real time
data on what was happening in the country. As I said, there's also been a lot a huge ramp up of phone messaging, emails, etc. From Iran targeting Israeli's designed to either spread disinformation or in some cases trying to collect information and data on Israelis or Israelis abroad.
So it certainly has.
Been an active campaign in cyberspace. And I think one of the main questions I have is given this tenuous ceasefire as of Wednesday while we're recording this. Often ceasefires, of course mean physical strikes, and a lot of times in the world, there isn't really a definition for what that means in cyberspace, and we'll see if there really is much of a ceasefire in the digital realm.
And as I like two types of cyber attacks, but one is designed to kind of sow chaos but not be so destructive as to be an act of war. And another is like to knock out some specific radars so that like military planes can most successfully bomb without any risk of being hit back. Like how much of this is in direct coordination with military and like so called kinetic strikes, and how much of it is like more low grade social erosion chaos causing.
No I think there's obviously different levels.
It's not necessarily going to be different vectors of how the attack is carried out, but there is. I would think, just as with physical strikes, conversations often about Okay, how far do.
We want to take this?
You know, disabling a major bank is going to cause confusion, and I'm sure you're not going to make any friends by doing that, but ultimately you're not necessarily going to cause death, You're not necessarily going to cause widespread military impact, but you know, something like for example, in the beginning of twenty twenty two, when we saw the full invasion of Ukraine, one of the first things that happened was a Russian government linked cyber attack on a major satellite company.
Called Viasat, which was very a key to.
Ukrainian military communications, and that was very largely disabled and taken out just before Russian troops pored over the border into Ukraine, and that was I would think very much coordinated with the government, definitely caused a lot of problems with Ukrainians being able to communicate briefly in cyber space. There isn't really an internationally regarded red line in the
sand of this to go to war. However, I always point out, of course Israel and Iran are not in NATO, but within the NATO Block, Article five is an effect and that ensures that if there is a specific act of war against a member, that I'll go to war. And actually it has been revamped to include cyber attacks. Now there isn't really a definition though of what that means, and what's been explained to me is kind of of anything.
That causes widespread deaths.
So for example, if you saw power offline and the dead of winter for a couple of weeks and you saw people dying because they didn't have heat.
We've talked a lot about cyber offense, what about defense? I mean I read that Iran actually took most of the Internet offline partly in response to cyber attacks, But you tell us a bit about that, and what are some of the other, maybe less dramatic defense tactics that Israel and Iran a both employing.
Yes, So with Iran this is several days ago. I think it may be around a week as of this recording. Most of the country was taken offline into a semi blackout by the government and one of the reasons given was the need to defend against Israeli linked cyber attacks. Now I have spoken to experts who are a little bit skeptical of that claim. It's also a moment of a lot of fear by the administration in Iran about their future, So it also may have to do with
simply controlling the messaging. But it is true that they certainly are worried about cyber attacks. As I mentioned earlier, the pager incident in Lebanon, I think has really changed the game in terms of concerns. Of course, it involved explosives, but it was triggered remotely, very kind of sophisticated attack, and as a result, another effort that Aroan is put
in places. They've told basically all government cybersecurity officials any of their staff to pretty much stop using Internet connected devices as much as possible. Obviously, if you're working in hacking capabilities, there's going to be certain devices you have to use.
But as I said, what.
Happened in Lebanon really changed the game in terms of concerns. Of course, Israel, as I mentioned, they're very vocal. They're cyber agency warning civilians about a lot of these waves of messages about not clicking on certain links sent to them, about disabling home surveillance cameras.
I do think though that Israelis.
Are, in terms of digital threats, always on a bit of a higher putting hire alert. It is a very digitally interconnected society, as I mentioned, one of the most advanced in cyberspace, and there are certainly no strangers to threats like this.
Let's talk about the US for remote, because you wrote this story recently with the headline US critical networks are prime targets.
For cyber attacks.
They're preparing for Iran to strike. So as of Wednesday, again, did that happen in terms of.
A major attack, No, But at moments of any sort of geopolitical tension like this, especially when the US in this case has directly.
Weighted in by hitting Iranian.
Nuclear sites, a lot of US critical infrastructure owners operators, and when I say that, I mean everything from those that operate the electric grid across the country, that operate water treatment facilities, hospitals, educational facilities, a lot of different sectors. Of course, they're going to be on a bit of higher alert because, as I said, you know, cyber attacks are not really clearly defined as an active war, or
if they are, how far you have to go. And it's a very cheap but very effective way of getting a message across. Say, all of a sudden, the water supply is compromised in a city in America. I mean that's pretty effective in terms of messaging. Same with oh the lights went out in this major city for who knows how long. So you know, I think a lot of these organizations are simply on a higher setting in
terms of what they're watching for. And a lot of times I like to emphasize whenever I talk about these types of threats, probably more than about ninety five percent of all successful cyber attacks, it's not something very sophisticated. It's not, you know, something that a government was planning for years. It can be something as small as oh, this email came through.
It looked legitimate.
I clicked this link all of a sudden, you know, for example, you click that on your work email, your email is compromised. Through that, they're able to compromise other accounts and kind of move through the IT network.
But I guess my final question to you, Migi is, as you look to the days ahead, what are you expecting to see, What are you watching out for. What are your sources telling you might be most interesting in the Iran Israel conflict in the realm of cyber.
I think again to emphasize that while there may be a ceasefire in terms of physical missile strikes, it really doesn't say anything in the ceasefire about what.
The digital space will look like.
So it will be very interesting to see if we continue to see more low level I would say threats in terms of disinformation, in terms of you know, maybe targeting of Israeli or Iranian organizations that are critical to day to day life but aren't necessarily going to cause deaths, such as, you know, disabling a bank for another day, or if we see that go up as a result of kind of having their hands tied on either side being able to drop missiles, you know, kinetic attacks, and
the fact that the international community seems to be a bit frozen when it comes to cyber attacks.
So, you know, if we.
See major threats to hospital for example in either nation, threats to the grid, threats to any of the really really critical groups.
So that would certainly be extremely interesting.
If I saw that, I would hope as a citizen of the world, that we would see more restraint.
But we will see.
And also, I think, you know it's been emphasized to me, is that when it comes to retaliation, Iran especially likes to play the longer game. So even if we don't necessarily see major cyber strikes on the US this week, that doesn't mean we might not see one a year from now that has been extensively planned out. It really is something that you can never really take your eye off the ball, especially with Iran. So we will have to see what happens in the years and weeks to come.
But I would be very surprised if in the coming days it was completely dead and nothing happening in the digital realm.
Mate, thank you so much for joining us today, Thank you for having me.
That's it for this week for tech stuff. I'm Kara Price and I'm mos Valoshin.
This episode was produced by Eliza Dennis and Adriana Topia. It was executive produced by me Kara Price and Kate Osborne for Kaleidoscope and Katrina Novel for iHeart Podcasts. The engineer is Elvira Gutierrez at CDM Studios. Jack Insley makes this episode and Kyle Murdoch wrote our theme song.
Join us next Wednesday for tex Stuff The Story when we will share an in depth conversation with author Jahini Vara about how the Internet has shaped us as individuals.
Please rate, review, and reach out to us at tech Stuff podcast at gmail dot com. We love hearing from you