The HowStuffWorks Story Part Two

So if you've not heard that, go here that and then come back here and I will I will make you hear other things about how stuff works because in that other episode I focus mostly on the website side of the story. That is the older part of the business, the thousands and thousands of articles about all sorts of subjects, heavily researched and expertly written. So if you're not familiar with how stupworks dot com, I recommend you go check it out. But in this episode I'm going to focus

more on the podcast side of the business. How stupp works podcasts got their start in two thousand eight, so ten years after the founding of the website itself. The original idea is that we would launch our shows to complement that website, so episodes were meant to be very short and to cover an article that you could find over at how stupp works dot com. This was thought of as a brand extension, right. It wasn't a way to make money. It wasn't like an article where we

would serve up web advertising against the article. There was no plan to monetize the podcast when they first began, and there was not really an easy way to do it if we wanted to. So in other words, this was essentially a marketing expense. We were operating the podcasts at a loss. It costs money to host podcasts, so we were spending on the shows, but there was no way to directly make that money back at the time.

The fact that we were allow to launch the shows and choose what to put on there and keep making them for years it's pretty amazing now. Conal Byrne, who was the managing director at how stuff Works at the time, was the guy who said, hey, we should be doing this, and he approached several of us about starting shows in two thousand and eight. I was eager to jump on board.

I had been listening to podcasts for a couple of years and one of my favorites was c nets Buzz Out Loud, which was a show that hasn't existed for several years now. I miss it a lot. Molly Wood and tom Merritt and lots of other hosts have been part of that, and they were phenomenal. They gave tech news really cool context and commentary, and I loved their delivery. So I was eager to give this a try myself, and I jumped at the chance to be in on

the launch of a technology themed podcast. Now, out of all the folks who started podcasting at that time, there are only a few of us who had a background in performance. Most of the people who started podcasts were coming at it from a researcher and writer perspective, but not someone who would typically perform on microphone. They were not I mean, they had personalities, but they were not personalities.

There is a difference. Also, there's a term that is frequently used in the industry to describe people who are podcasters besides jerks. It's the term is talent. And boy does that feel pretentious to be called the talent, as if everybody else who works on this isn't talented, That is patent lee untrue. I have had a sweet, a veritable army of talented people who have made my show and the other shows at How Stuff Works possible and

sound great and go out on time. So I object to being called the talent, but that is another common term for it. At any rate, none of us at that time were the talent. We were talented, just not We weren't meant for for performing in on top of microphones. We would instead do research and write an article and submit it and get edits back, and then work on those edits and submit it again. That's that's how we worked.

So if you listen to some of those old episodes, those first few of any given show, you might notice some hesitancy, some uncertainty of how to talk into a microphone and how to relate to an audience that isn't there. But most of us, in fact, I would say, everybody who's still around, picked up on it pretty well and now does an amazing job of it. Myself excluded, I've always done an amazing job. Now. Four shows launched that summer of two thousand and eight to extend the presence

of How Stuff Works into podcast land. Those four shows where Stuff You Should Know Factor Fiction, which would later become Stuff You Missed in History Class, Brain Stuff, which was hosted by the site founder, Marshall brain and Tech Stuff. All four of those shows still exist, though brain Stuff has changed the most in format since it started. Stuff You Missed In History Class has had several hosts throughout

its own history. Only two people have remained co hosts or hosts of their respective shows since the launch of those first four shows. Those two people are Josh Clark, the co host of Stuff You Should Know, and me, host of Tech Stuff. We are the only two original hosts from that original slate of shows who are still hosting those shows, and I will have Josh Clark on

this episode a little bit later. Now. Over time, the podcast transformed from brand extension marketing to revenue generating shows, so in other words, we started selling ad spots and getting sponsorships. These days, the podcas ask business is a big one, so much so that were now considered a podcast network company. And this change was a gradual one, but it's also a really big one. It's kind of hard to communicate to anyone outside of how stuff works.

How enormous a change this was. When I first started at the company, we didn't even have podcasts, not at How Stuff Works. I mean they existed, but we didn't have any. Later, we were considered a website that also did podcasts these days were a podcast company. So I started off as a staff writer, I became a senior writer,

and now I'm a podcast executive producer and host. It's kind of an interesting journey because there was no career ladder that way when I started, because there was no department, there was no podcasting. And a bit will u we'll touch in with a Josh and talk about his perspective on the podcast business of How Stuff Works. But first I thought would be fun to run down a list of shows we've done over the years, a podcasts, not episodes of tech Stuff. And some of these podcasts are

still in production. Others have been phased out, which is a nice way of saying canceled. Sometimes shows are canceled because we failed to get a good, strong audience. Sometimes we have to cancel them when we realize the amount of work it takes to put into the show is so much that we cannot do other things that we need to do. Sometimes it's because people who are working on the show move on to go work somewhere else.

There are a lot of different reasons, so it's not like we have a cruel taskmaster who is watching a needle and if the needle doesn't get out of the red in a certain amount of time, they just say out the door with you. I want to make sure that you guys realize that. So we're gonna start with the big one, the first of all the podcasts to launch in two thousand and eight, that would be Stuff You should Know. It's still our most popular show by far.

It is the the flagship, the rock star of the house stuff Works Network, and it's helmed by Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant. At least it is today. Back in the day, Josh Clark hosted with a couple of other folks on early episodes. He'll talk about that a little bit later. And typically they choose an article and how stuff works, and they each do some supplemental research looking into other sources on their own, and then they meet up to have a conversation about the subject matter. They

don't share their notes, they don't share their research. They just sit down at the table and what you hear on the podcast is their conversation it's a really effective and engaging approach. Their chemistry is undeniable. They've posted more than a thousand episodes of their show since it launched in two thousand and eight, and they covered pretty much any topic imaginable, though they tend to leave the technological

ones to me. We published several episodes of stuff you Should Know at once so that people would have multiple episodes to listen to right out of the gate. So on April two thousand eight, the first three episodes to come out were how grass Aline Works, How lame Ducks Work,

and how Altruism Works. Stuff You Missed in History Class Today is hosted by Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry, though numerous other hosts have helmed the show in the past, and they take a deep dive on interesting, obscure, or otherwise overlooked historical events and give them real context and explanation. We guess, out of all of our shows that we produce here at the company, that's the one that requires

the most in depth research. And my hat is off to them, because I do about eight hours of research per hour of tech stuff that you hear. I think they do even more than that because it requires it to to find out as many sources about these historical events as possible and corroborate with other sources to make sure that they are communicating the most accurate information. The first episode of Stuff You Missed in his Street Class was did Genghis Khan really kill one million, seven forty

eight thousand people in one hour? And that it published on June nine, two eight. Now you know all about tech Stuff. It's the show you're listening to right now. But originally tech Stuff was a two person show and my editor, Chris Pallette was my co host and the purveyor of puns. If you think my puns are bad, you need to listen to some old shows. Our first episode was and I'm embarrassed to say this, how the Google Apple Cloud computer will work? Yeah. I published on

June tenth, two thousand eight. So our show is one day younger than Stuff You Missed Industry Class. There show came out the day before ours. Brain Stuff was originally hosted by Marshall Brain that is his real name, and the episodes were really really short, like a couple of minutes each When it first came out. Each one would answer a question and a quick overviews such as how Nano Solar Works. That shows still around, and I hear that there are some interesting ideas that might be happening

with brain Stuff in the near future. So if you haven't listened for a while, you may want to go and subscribe. I have a feeling there's going to be some changes made in all sorts of interesting ways, a lot of experimentation. Um, but that's all I can say about it because it's still in flux at the moment. But the first episode of the show was How Stealth Technology Works, and it published on July four, two thousand

and eight. Best Deal Day. Car Stuff is a show with Ben Bolan and Scott Benjamin used to be called High Speed Stuff and then they changed it eventually as a show about vehicles, and it's really incredibly entertaining. Scott is a treasure trove of car information. If you've heard any of the episodes where he's been a host here on tech Stuff, he has phenomenally informed about vehicles and it's also fun to break his heart by talking about

autonomous vehicles. And then Ben, well, he's he's pretty smart. Ben's a very funny, smart guy. He's also my arch nemesis here at How Stuff Works. I declared that pretty much my first month of working here, because I wanted to have an arch nemesis who was actually very courteous and friendly and would sometimes bring me lunch. One of the hardest working folks here at the company would be

Mr Ben Bolan. Their first episode was How kar Theft Works, which honestly does not surprise me at all because Ben is also a bit shifty. It published November eight. They had a second episode go live that same day titled what will Luxury Car Mean? And twenty thirty so we still have a few years to find out if they were right about it. Chuck Bryant and John Fuller. They launched a show for a while. It was called Stuff from the B Side, which was all about music. I

miss that show a lot. You'll hear me and Josh talk about that a little bit later. The podcast was an interesting look at music and music product action and related topics. The first episode was called How Debut Albums Work, which is pretty clever when your first episodes about debut albums. It published on December thirteenth, two thousand and eight. The final episode was titled Before They Were Robots, early craft Work and it published on December tenth, two thousand nine.

So this show lasted about a year, and it's when I really wish we could bring back, and maybe someday we will in some format. Then we have Stuff Mom Never Told You, which was originally hosted by Kristen Conger and Molly Edmonds. And I remember when Kristen and Molly first pitched this show because I got to sit in on some of those early recordings and I could tell

right away that they had an incredible idea. Molly would leave the company in two eleven, with Caroline Irvin joining the show, and then Kristen and Caroline did an amazing job evolving the show into a strong feminist voice. Caroline and Kristen left How Stuff Works in late The show itself has returned and now has new hosts Emily Airies and Bridge Todd. The first episode of the show ever was Doo, Men and Women have different Brains. It published

February four, two thousand nine. I suspect the answer is yes, because we can't all share the same one. On January we launched a new show called Stuff from the Science Lab, but we would rebrand this. This is sort of like Factor Fiction. We changed the name of it. Now it is known as Stuff to Blow Your Mind. This is a science based podcast. It's currently hosted by Robert Lamb, Joe McCormick, and Chris stout Sayer. Although our editor Alison

louder Milk was an original co host with Robert. Julie Douglas would also host some of these episodes of the show, and the first episode ever was called Amazing Investations. In twenty eleven, we launched a short lived podcast called Stuff to Make You Smarter. This was hosted by Rob and Chris, who were not actually part of the editorial department, and this show explored all sorts of various topics but didn't

quite last half a year. The first episode launched a May second, two thousand eleven and was called of Cinema and Sound The Story of Music and Film. The final episode was called Can We Teach Our Children to Be Bully Proof? And it published on September. So this was the time when we were actually opening up the ability

to podcast beyond the editorial department. And it turns out that podcasting is it requires a lot of work, and sometimes it requires more work than you can put in and still do your regular job at the same time, So that I suspect was the reason why this podcast ended up being canceled about six months in from its launch. Um just imagining it was along those lines. It certainly wasn't anything about the quality of the show, which is quite good. You can still go back and listen to them.

All of these, by the way, are still online, so you can go back and find them if you like. Now I've got more to talk about with the podcasts that were and still are with the House Stuff Works Network. But before I do that, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor. All Right, we're back. We got a few more shows to talk about before we get to the interview with Josh Clark of Stuff You Should Know.

On August nine, we published a new show called Stuff for a Stylish Home, which was a d I Y and home decor show hosted by Christie and Sarah, and their first episode was the importance of having things unique to you in. The final episode, which published on February nine, two thousand twelve, was Move Away from the Carpet Flooring Alternatives.

This was another one of those shows we launched and canceled in just a few months, and I never really got a chance to talk with Sarah or Christie, so I really wasn't in the realm where that show was launched and then canceled. I don't really know what the story is behind it, but this was during our days as part of Discovery Communications, and that may have had something to do with it. I honestly don't know what. It may have had something to do with our our

relationship with TLC. Now. Before they became the hosts of of Stuff You Missed in History Class, Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry also hosted a show called Pop Stuff, which was all about pop culture. The first episode published on October It was about time traveling through Fall TV. It was actually all about the shows that the hosts

were excited about. So if you want to hear which shows in two thousand eleven Holly and Tracy were really waiting to see, you can go and download that episode and find out it's like time traveling all over again. The final episode of Pop Stuff would air on June third, two thirteen. It was called Greatest Hits Perfume The Culture of Scent. I used to host a show called Forward Thinking. It was a video series, and it had a companion audio podcast. The focus of both shows was to take

a speculative look at the future. Often this would center on technology, but we'd also take science, art, culture, and other topics into consideration. Joe McCormick and Lauren voege Obaum hosted this show with me, and our first episode was called The Internet of Things More Efficient than You and it published on February fi fun fact, that was my sixth year work anniversary the day that show went live.

Later that same year, Ben Bolan and Matt Frederick launched a new series called Stuff They Don't Want You to Know, which focuses on strange stories and French theories. I actually gave the show that name. That name was my idea. It's one of like three good ones I've had since I started How Stuff Works. Noel Brown has since joined that show, and their first episode ever was called Edward Burnet's the Most Famous Man Man You've Never Heard of?

That published on octobirteen. Julie Douglas, one of our editors actually she used to edit my articles, hosts a show called The Stuff of Life. Her show tends to publish in seasons and it requires a lot more work, both on the research side and the post production side, but it's a really cool show. You should check it out

a few episodes if you're not familiar with it. The Stuff of Life had both a trailer and an episode zero, as did many of the other shows that I will talk about soon, but the first real episode was called The Power of Fear and published January two thousand sixteen. Lauren Vogelbaum hosted a show called How Stuff Works Now for a while that was based off the blog posts that folks like myself we're writing for the Now brand.

We've since discontinued that brand and the series, but the first episode of that podcast published on April two thousand sixteen and was titled Microbots, Babies, trust, and lead contamination. Three things you don't want to go together. Lauren and Annie launched a show this year in March called Food Stuff, in which they explore the amazing world of food. So if you like food, you should check it out. It's

pretty awesome show. The first episode is titled Champagne and Sparkling Wine and it published on March first, two thousand seventeen. In twenty seventeen, our company also hired Will and Mangesh, who had co founded the magazine Mental Flass back in two thousand one. They joined our company and they launched

a new podcast called Part Time Genius. Their first real episode, getting Past the Trailer in episode zero, published on June seven, seventeen, and it's called What Are the Sunniest Places to Hide My Taxes? Jack O'Brien, who was once an editor of Cracked, joined How Stuff Works in twenty seventeen as well, and in October of seventeen launched a news oriented comedy show

called The Daily Zeitgeist. Now that show is particularly timely, so listing titles and launch dates doesn't really apply because it's dependent upon the news. But trust me, it's there. You should check it out if you haven't heard it already. On October nine, we launched the show Tech Stuff Daily. If you haven't heard of it, it's a short form show and yeah, it proves I can show it up if I have to covers tech stories that are part of the current conversation, and then I explained the context

behind them all within seven ish minutes or less. The first episode was about augmented reality, and then we launched Ridiculous History with Noel Brown and Ben Bullen, which looks into really odd historical events. Their first episode is The Wild Hippos of Pablo Escobar and it went live on octob You should definitely tune into that show. I hear a rumor that a certain text stuff podcast host might be showing up regularly un ridiculous history to quiz people unfairly.

I won't tell you where I heard that. One of the most recent shows that we launched is called Movie Crush. That's a show hosted by Chuck Bryant and which he interviews notable people about their favorite films. And the first episode featured Janet Varney and it's all about Tron. So you guys who heard my interview with Mr Listburger should definitely check that one out. The Movie Crush first episode published on November three. And we've had all sorts of

interesting celebrities come in and out of our office. There are times when I'm recording and I'll look through the window and I'll see someone I recognize, and I just have to keep everything together and keep recording as if I didn't just see someone super cool walk by the window. It is a challenge. We've got a lot of other

shows coming up soon. There's one called Atlanta Monster that is going to be all about the Atlanta child murders that happened in the early eighties here in Atlanta, and that that promises to be a very hard hitting, serious investigative piece. So if you are a fan of that style, that genre of podcast, you owe it to yourself to check it out. I've seen some of the early work and it is phenomenal, and we've got a lot more

planned in the future. So if you are a fan of how Stuff works, you should be on the lookout for new podcast that will be coming out mostly through and beyond, so you never know what might pop up next. Now, let's go ahead and take a listen to an interview I did with a certain Mr Josh Clark of Stuff you should know Fame. Joining me in the studio today is my good buddy, my co worker, who I don't see nearly as frequently as I used to. Josh Clark, Welcome back. I think the last time you joined us

for Tech Stuff, we talked about toilets we did. That was a good episode. Did you know that after that episode I actually got to visit one of the toilets we talked about in that episode. We talked about the toilets in Scara Bray, the little community in Ireland where or Scotland rather, I'm sorry, in Scotland, where they had dug out trenches underneath the seaside village of Scara Bray that would carry waste away into the ocean. And I actually visited the village of scare A Bray on my

on my trip to Scotland and I it was fine. No, that was I was told specifically not to use those facilities, largely because there are no walls anymore, and apparently it's considered. Yeah, but that's not what we're here to talk about today. We're not here to talk about my proclivities for dropping trout at the drop of a hat. The hats and trousers they just drop everywhere. We were talking about now, I'm sorry, this is a surprise because this is your life. No,

I'm just kidding. So we're talking about the how Stuff Works story, Josh, and a big part of that. Now. In our previous episode, I covered the sort of the evolution of the website site side of How Stuff Works because that was what we were known for for the majority of the time. That you and I have been here. It was mostly known as a website that also did some podcasts later on, and now we really think of ourselves as a podcast network, so we're kind of transitioning

into that. And I want to talk to you a little bit. Let's let's you know, Stuff you Should Know are our most popular show, of which you are a co host half for third A third a third? Yeah, is another another thirty three point three repeated. Yeah, that's kind of sort of like the episodes, right. You guys just recently celebrated your one thousand episode. Yes, congratulations and congratulations to you at number nine hund thank you so much. Yeah.

Who would have thought back in two thousand and eight when we were first talking about they so going into that mindset, Josh, can you and I know you've talked about this recently, but can you talk a little bit about how Stuff you Should Know even came about? So? Uh, the Stuff you should Know was the brainchiwl though this guy named Conald Burn, Yes, who used to run the site, as you know, and uh left and then actually came

back and now runs the site again. Yeah, and he had this idea that they were on how stuff works that there were a lot of really really well researched, well written articles, but that not everybody sits around and reads articles on the web all day, right, So he wanted to get those articles out to people who don't read on the web, and he thought podcasts, we'll try that. So he he came to me and Jerry and said, you guys, just just try this, just give it a shot.

There is no stakes to this whatsoever. Um. I overheard a conversation where the phrase low hanging fruit was used to explain why they were using writers as hosts, and um, it just kind of took off from there right like we were. There was nobody paying attention. We were totally figuring out as we went along, and I think because there was so little risk involved, we felt really free to just try whatever, and we were able to kind

of find our footing without being under screw, which really helped. Right. We could stumble around a lot and no one was going to pull the rug out under us and make us fall flat. That's if I if I can continue my stumbling metaphor, right right, But I mean it was that that that's that's a lot of pressure, and that pressure wasn't there because we were all just having fun at the time. Yeah, we weren't. We weren't monetizing podcast.

There were no ads, there were no sponsorships, no, and as a matter of fact, that the podcast program was you know, um under real scrutiny more than a few times of course of its lifetime. We'll get into that, Okay, alright, well I'm going to stop myself there. Yeah, when we we get into the realm after how Stuff Works left the umbrella of the Convex Group, right, So when we both started, it was part of of convex So, which is this company that also owned web md. That was

the really big property under the Convex Group. Yeah, originally a guy named Jeff Arnold founded group. When we came in the house, Supports was kind of sort of operating a little bit like an internet startup, had a little bit of that feel to it. It wasn't super crazy. But again, like two thousand and eight, that was when we started doing this podcast stuff, and it was considered kind of a brand extension. It wasn't really considered a

revenue generator. In fact, it wasn't for many years. Um. I remember when tech Stuff began, which was a few months after stuff. You should know. It started that we were following certain rules that you guys had already kind of set, not really rules, but you know, just the following the sort of yeah, where we were taking articles that existed on the site and using those as the launch point and the guy the the real the real goal for us was to guide people to go to

the website. That's hard to do. It's hard to do from a where you're you're trying to get people to transition formats, right, like they're listening to something and you're trying to convince them two. Then next time they are at a computer terminal or a smartphones were barely a thing two thousand and eight, But if they were using a smartphone to then navigate to a website, that's hard to do. But it was kind of our mandate for

a while. I also remember that we had very strict time limits early early on in our podcast, like keep it ten minutes or a shorter five yeah, initially, and I think that came from iTunes. They were like, people are just kind of into really short podcasts, and I guess we heard five minutes and we just could not be contained in five minutes. No, I mean just the introduction alone would take about five minutes. Uh. And you you even had like Chris Palette was one of your

co hosts early on and stuff. You should know. He became my co host for tech stuff, And I believe Candice did a couple of episodes with you early early on, and then you did some episodes with Chuck, and the chemistry was undeniable. You and Chuck just worked so well together from the get go, And of course that's only gotten better as the show has gone on. It was

already great. So yeah, we can't people ask us, like, what you know, what's the secret in obviously the secret first stuff you should know is the chemistry between me and Chuck. But we have like no idea, like I'm not like here, I'll push this button on Chuck and he'll push this button back, and like the chemistry just emerges.

It's just it just so happens that if you take me, you take Chuck, and you put us in the room together and we start talking about an article that we both read and did supplemental research on, it just has a little certain verve to it. I guess. Yeah, I've experienced similar things in the acting world where you go up. You'll you'll be in a scene against one actor and

everything's fine, like there's nothing bad about it. But then you go into a scene with a totally different actor with whom you have real chemistry, and suddenly something that was just going to be fine is elevated. And the same thing is true a podcasts. So we could have two very intelligent, well spoken people having a conversation about an interesting topic, and that would be a decent podcast.

But then when you get that chemistry, when you get those two people who just their personalities mesh so well and complement one another. So it's not like a it's it's it is a Venn diagram, right, You've got overlap, but you also have stuff on on the edges for both of you. Yeah. I think of it more not like a Venn diagram, but more like a Yin Yang symbol, where there's like they compliment and fulfill one another and create a larger hole. Yeah, where it really it's just

two weird looking commas. But if you put together, oh, it's a circle. Yeah, And I think that that has served the show very well. So you have the benefit of two hosts with great chemistry, and of course You've had no shortage of really interesting topics, many of which have come from articles from How Stuff Works. Yeah, we still basically follow that original model where when we record the we start off with an article from How Stuff Works almost I would say probably nineties something percent of

the time. And then we you know, we we agree like this is the one we're going to use to basically structure the episode on and then that's it. We don't talk about it anymore. We both go off do our own research and we come back together and we sit down and we have a conversation about that topic based on what we found out, and um, Jerry records it, and you know, probably about five or six things have to be edited out, which we indicate with a peep, and Jerry's got to go find the beeps and make

sure that they're all taken care of. Um, and then that's it. One take, and that's the that's the show. That's that's how Chris and I would record as well. It's nice way to do it's a cool way to do it. It's Chris was the only co host I've had where besides guest co host, where I've been able to do that where we did our our research completely independently,

didn't even share notes. If anything, we might sit down just before we start recording and saying this is kind of the sequence I was thinking about, but it'd be like a very general kind of outline, just like like, let's start this. To me, makes the most logged logical sense to start from here and progress. Obviously of the shows have evolved quite a bit since they first launched. I mean, we've seen them grow much longer. Uh, there's

definitely a limit I think to it. Like we found that once you start pushing the sixty minute mark, it's starting to get a little long. But that led to a new innovation for us, which was the two part episode. Yes, and tech Stuff has certainly no in fact tech Stuff. We've done some two and three partners because some some especially some of the big companies, if we want to do a full history on them, it really requires done

three partners. Xerox Story was three parts, Nintendo was three parts. Yeah, there's certain certain companies that have had enough really important historical moments that have impacted technology to require Yeah, and Zerox surprisingly Xerox Park never mind, all my listeners just heard about that a month ago, So I'm not gonna go into it again, but yeah, I feel the same way. It's actually one of the things that we should mention, and I've talked about before on the show, is that

the prep time for a podcast is deceptively long. Right. A listener may listen to you talk for an hour, and because that conversation seems very natural and effortless, they may come away thinking like, oh, these guys, you know, maybe they did like an hour or two a research and then they got together and had a conversation. Typically it's way more work than that, for sure, at least a full day of research um per hour of podcasts. Yeah,

I would say that's a pretty good rule. Um. Um. The uh, the thing about it though is you never go into the podcast. But I should say I never go into the podcast with feeling prepared. No, like I can keep researching up until you know, the last moment, and um, that's not always a luxury I have. But even if it is, when I when I get in and sit down, I'm like, what else am I missing? You know what, what obvious fact am I gonna walk

right past? Or what group am I going to not include in in in advert only offend you know, um, there are all considerations that that kind of make going in and recording. There's a certain amount of anxiety to the whole thing, even after uh ten years of it. Almost yeah, there the first few times staying down at a microphone, it's such an unnatural thing, you know, to try and have a natural conversation with somebody, but you've

got this construct in between you. It also, to me was the weirdest thing finding out people were listening, because the way we work typically is that we're recording at least a little ahead of time, so that we have a bit of a buffer for times when you're traveling, you're on vacation, you maybe have a sick day, something

along those lines. And that means that by the time something has gone out, you've already been working on two or three or more podcasts further down the line, and so you're constantly thinking not just of the next thing, you're thinking of the thing that's two or three episodes ahead, and it very quick you can lose track of the fact that people are listening to the stuff you talked about two weeks ago or three weeks ago. I remember

the first time we started getting fan mail. That was incredible because it was a reminder that hey, you're not just talking into a microphone and then you leave the room and then it's all done. It's still living out there. Uh. And that to me still to this day is something that I take. I don't take it for granted. It surprises me to this day. Yeah. You know, Um, after as many emails as we've all gotten over the years from listeners, it would be kind of easy to just

get kind of jaded. UM, but I'll still read a lot of the emails that come in, and when I do, I'm finding like, like, no, these are this is really like important stuff that these people are saying, like like we helped them with anxiety. Um. Some people have said that they have not committed suicide or tried to um die by suicide because we were there for him. Like

there's just there there are things that that we're doing that. Yes, it does not come through when you just are sitting in the studio like we are right now, because the world is physically cut off from us right now. So the idea that we're putting it out there and it's having these impacts on all these multiple different people. Um, and even even nothing quite so dramatic. Knowing that there's somebody out there sitting on a subway laughing at a

joke that I made. That's extraordinarily satisfying. That the key is to remind yourself to stop and think about that once in a while. Absolutely, because it is definitely work. We're all working like crazy around here, and um, it's easy to not do that, but when you do, it's it's it makes it quite satisfying. It is. It is kind of fun for me now because a lot of

my shows I'm live streaming. Uh, not the ones whenever I do interviews, I don't live stream because I don't want to put added pressure on the person I'm talking to, But but I'll live stream all the solo shows and it's great because it reminds me even even though the chat room tends to be fairly modest, it's a small group, but it's they're very responsive that if I if I let loose with I don't know if you know this, Josh, but occasionally I like to let loose with a pun.

I know, shocking, right, but to see a reaction to that. Um. Also occasionally we're recording in the other studio where Ramsey sits in the same room. And if I can get Ramsey to chuckle or snort or or make any kind of noise that might possibly get picked up on the microphone, I consider it a personal victory. Yes, I feel the same way with Jerry, Like making Jerry laugh is that's it's nice? Yeah. And I did the same thing to

Dylan all the time. If I could get Dylan to laugh, it was the best thing, because yeah, absolutely, and only that, but it did reminded me that hey, they're actually listening and just saying there with their headphones on. Um, so let's also talk a little bit so stuff. You should know. Obviously it became a big success. It is the most successful of our shows here at How Stuff Works. So, h thank you for pointing that up. I mean, how

could I not? At what point did? Did you? Was there like a day or a moment where you heard about a statistic or okay, so tell me about the moment where you're like, this is this is way bigger than I expect that. Yeah. So, um, there was a specific day. I think it was in November of two thousand eight. Um. We started in April two eight and by November it was strictly me and Chuck and have been for a while. And um, somebody pointed out the iTunes charts, the podcast charts on iTunes, and our podcast

was number one. The number one podcast in the United States was our podcast and U that drove it home. That was astounding. It was like, you know, I used to get a lot of participant ribbons and stuff and sports and things like that. I imagine this is what it felt like winning the Big Game or something. Finally, it was amazing. Took first place the egg Toss and we we number two was this American Life. Yeah, so

that just made the whole thing that much more astounding. Well, NBR had been doing podcast since two thousand five, right, so like right after podcast became a thing, NBR was doing. Although NBR was doing segments of shows, like not even full episodes at that point, but they had they had had a deep level of experience in that space, whereas we were the newcomers. In fact, Connal, the person we mentioned before, had said a few times that we were

late to the game on podcasts. Yeah, which is kind of funny now that you know you look at the podcast industry and how established it. We're pioneers were considered pioneers now right, but at the time we were thinking we were pretty late to it. And it is interesting to note that podcasting itself has gone through these cycles where it gets rediscovered and thus people are like, hey, podcasts are back. I'm like, I don't mean to quote L L cool J, but you know I've been here

for years. That's all I'm saying. But a direct quote phrase, I'm I'm I like to paraphrase. I like to put this into my own voice. Yeah, paraphrasing and puns. That's really the alternate title to tech stuff. So tell me also, because stuff you should know has been in a great position where you guys have been able to go to amazing places and do your show live. Tell me what

that experience is like for you. It's nuts and neat and fun to do um because again, when you're when you're in the room recording, it's just you know, you and the guest and Ramsey. When it's me and Chuck and Jerry, it's just us. When we do it live, it's us. But then there's a bunch of people there who are laughing and what we're saying, which is amazing to to get a laugh out of people or a

gasp is another really satisfying one to UM. So to get that immediate feedback from people, uh, for us is really really um just just really gratifying in thrilling too because a good word to use, but um. It also is a really unique experience for the listeners who are coming to the show because normally listening to a podcast is a almost always a solitary pursuit. People just listen to them with their headphones on and they're the only

ones listening to them, so it's us and them. Now at a live show, it's us and them and then all the other people who it's normally us and them with and everyone's combined, so they're hearing gasps and laughs from people who are laughing with them at the same thing at the same time, and it has a really kind of surreal, I think, um warm, communal feeling for the people who come to the shows. And we found that, you know, usually when people come, they come to the

next one and the next one too. Yeah, and podcasting, I'm glad you pointed that out because podcasting really is a very intimate kind of it is production, right, Like if you go to our shows, it's us sitting at a table with a tablecloth on the stage talking into mix to to the people in the audience, Like it's it's extremely intimate. But if you're listening just regularly, I mean you're listening to voices talking right into your ears about whatever the topic may be. Uh, it's that level

of intimacy. I think that has elevated podcasts over certain other types of media because it feels like the people you're listening to our speaking to you directly. And then when you go to one of these live events you realize that there's this communal aspect. I'm glad you use that word, because I think that also can create bigger responses.

Something that might have made you chuckle softly suddenly your laugh thing at because you're sharing that with other people and you're being your your your response is reinforced by the responses of other people. Yeah, and and reinforced and in biggend yes, in bigened and then uh, we we see that and it's a very perfectly cromulent word. We as again as a stage performer, like I've had that experience of performing in front of an audience and their

reaction energizes my performance. So you yeah, if you have a crowd that's not really playing off of what you're doing. Not only does it not energize you d energy because you pour more and more of yourself like you will, you will try to fill that like it. It feels feels like you're you've got a picture and you're pouring water into the picture, but for some reason the picture is not filling up. So you're just like, I just

gotta pour more water. And it's that's how it is, except you're talking about your your energy or performance energy as you're trying to do this. You know, No, I've performed in front of those crowds too, but but you get a good out and it's just amazing. Oh yeah, like they just booy you like a draft on a red balloon. Yes, yes, it's uh, it is, it is. I was having a Nina moment there with ninety nine

of those red balloons. I was thinking more French movie. Yeah, no, I I think that's a better visual honestly than the than than a than a song that that warns you against nuclear war. It was needed at the time it was and maybe again, but that's getting off on a different tangent. So do you have any particular favorite memories as far as the stuff you should know, podcast goes like anything, uh, from whether it's a fan interaction or

an episode you did. I mean, I know of one episode that has to be in your top five, which was the Necronomicon because that was Yeah, so I wrote an article about how the Necronomicon works. And Josh, you're a fan of Lovecraft as well, like you like Lovecraft's works. So Josh and Chuck, we're going to record an episode about the Necronomicon. And this was back when your city we were in. Our office was in Buckhead, Atlanta. I

just remember sitting at my desk. I think this was still when we were on the fifteenth floor and yeah, the original Yeah, the original space. And I remember you would come by and you tap me on the shoulder and you're like, hey, hey, Strick, how do you say the name of the guy who wrote the Necronomic And I'm like, oh, the mad arab abduell L has reads like thanks, thanks, and I'd say like three times and they go away, and then like maybe three minutes later,

you can hey, Strick, what's the place where Cathula lies dreaming? Like, oh, that's real? Yeah, yeah, real, yea as our apostrophe a L Yeah, And I said, well, you know, there's differing opinions upon it, but the Lovecraft himself says that the human tongue is incapable of actually pronouncing it. So really, you're you've got a lot of leeway. And eventually he Josh comes back and tells me on the showers, Hey, just come into the studio. And that's how I ended

up being on an episode of stuff you should know. Yeah, I still do stay And I'm impressed by that because I think God knows what you're working on, probably an update about how the iPod works or something, because you

know they just released the second one that month or something. Yeah, and um, you just stopped, stood up, came into the studio and spent thirty minutes talking totally without zero, with zero preparation, totally off the top of your head, but with full authority about Lovecraft and and his mythos, and um,

it was quite impressive. I would direct anybody to go listen to that episode, whether you're interested in that kind of thing or not, just with the knowledge that you had no forewarning that you were going to be coming in recording right then, and that was it, Like that was the first take that we did. There there maybe a dozen topics out there that I could pull that off with. Lovecraft just happened to be one of them. So it was. It was a good It was a

good uh alignment of the planets for that particular situation. Uh, let me ask you about Let you know, we alluded to some some changes over time in the scrutiny area of podcasts, and uh, I think it's good to talk about that too. And I mentioned it. I'm sure I say this because I'm recording this before I record the actual website section, which will publish before this, But I'm sure I mentioned about the evolution of ownership of how stuff works. How Stuff works after it was part of

Comics Group got sold to Discovery Communications. Discovery Communications had a slightly different approach of some cases, a dramatically different approach to uh, keeping an eye on and sometimes guiding the content of certain podcasts. I assume stuff you should know had to do a Shark week episode at some point. We did. We did a few Shark episodes and and uh, yeah,

first you kind of bristled at that thing. But one thing that we learned was Um, when you, uh, when you get a shark week assignment, you turn it into some great shark episodes. Yeah, now they're I agree that there were definitely that initial reaction of like, oh, I'm not so sure I'm cool with having to you know now that I'm because I've been so used to being

able to dictate what goes on my show. That's something I don't think a lot of people realize is that, like we all basically had total creative control over our own shows. Like we choose the topics, we decide what goes in, we decide what comes out, we decide um, the tone, the the you know, the language that's used, like like we yeah, it's it's the Like. That's one thing that this company has always been great about is

giving the creators creative control. And so so, yeah, when when we were kind of given a suggestion that you know, shark weeds coming up, don't you think the podcast should all do some something that has to do with sharks. Um, Yeah, it could cause a little bit of bristling, but that was that was it. And and uh, you know, I think most people we listen to stuff you should know. No, I'm not much of a corporate apologist. But that really was the extent of of the mandate, or it could

have been much much more. So what's cool about it is that every single show that did something on sharks, um did something really cool about sharks. And I would direct you to stuff you should knows. Shark Diaries episode, Yeah, Chuck put together and wrote and directed and yeah, a lot of the other hosts did voice acting. Um and uh it's it's one of this. It was like a radio play basically, but it was all based on historical fact about these shark attacks in like, um, New Jersey,

I think maybe nineteen sixteen or something like that. It was some of the stuff that inspired Jaws, right, yeah, um, so it turned out to just be this really neat interesting episode that we otherwise never would have done. Yeah. I I was one of the voices in that. I remember doing that, yeah, the tech stuff episode for that first one, because we Chris and I really struggled because there's not so many, so many pieces of tech that we could do what you guys do. We ended up

doing Bruce the shark in Jaws. So we talked about that. Well. Apart from those little moments that I mean, there were some restrictions on tech stuff, but that was largely because we were working for a company that had a big interest in cable, so a lot of those topics were we were gently guided away from covering because of conflict

of interest and that which makes some sense. It made it a little complicated to talk about certain topics, but we did our best um And obviously we've gone through a couple of changes since then, but I would say that the Discovery era was probably the only one where I felt like there was even a small amount of of corporate oversight in that sense, like and even then again, it wasn't that restrictive guy a TV show out of it, That's true. I remember we were doing a lot of

ads for like national brands at the time, too, is it. Yeah? I remember thinking as I watched the pilot episode of that, and I watched your your Nemesis character on there, I thought, who did they model this after? Or is this just totally fictional? Because I have a feeling that every single other podcaster in this room is thinking, is that supposed to be me? Yeah? I'll never tell all right, that's fair. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna grow you on that I mean that to me is something that needs to

be revealed on your show, not mine. I also I had I got to be one of the extras in one of the episodes. Did Yeah. I got to walk down the hallway and talk to actors I know personally who were pretending to be my co workers in a fictional office setting. It was bizarre. Yeah, but that walk was one of the best. I really thought it was great. I was so sad that it. I don't think it made it into the show, but I thought it did.

Maybe it did. You know what, I'm gonna have to go back and watch him now like every week, you know, I blush. Uh. So these days, of course, we've got, you know, more things in production than ever before. We have a lot more shows that have come out. I mean, there's been some podcasts that have come and gone since we started. There's some that I wish could come back in some form. I still miss stuff from the b Sides.

That was one of my favorites. Yeah, that's how everybody's going to for one that just got canceled because of not enough ears. But it was a great show between Chuck and John Fuller. Yeah, they were it was like a just music talk. Basically, it was fantastic and we've got some other new ones coming out soon. We've got stuff that's in development that we can't really talk about yet because it's it's still in various stages and hasn't

yet gone live. But I do highly recommend everybody listen and pay attention because we've got to have some new shows coming out that some of them have been coming out over the over the course of Part Time Genius, but where you're going to have a lot more of those. Well,

you know, Chuck's got a new show out. Yeah, it's just launching, Well it will have launched by the time this comes out about It's called Movie Crush, and um, it's him interviewing famous people about what their favorite movie is and through that he kind of like he uses that as a pretext to find out about them, the people, the person. Yeah, and um, he's had I think he

started out with Janet Varney Tagnitaro. I don't know if he's announcing who else, but from what I understand, there's some like it's going to be a pretty cool interview show. We've seen a few famous faces passed through the Hell Stuff Works office over the last few weeks, including ties where I was recording in here, seeing famous faces pass in front of the podcast studio and having to keep my cool, maintain maintain radio professionalism. Yeah, so we obviously,

oh An and I have a show coming out. Oh I didn't know if it was ready to be talked about, but I just wanted to say I have a show coming out. To look for it in January February, and hopefully I'll knock everybody stucks off. I have a show that's in the pitch process, but who knows if he'll go any further than that. We have anything coming from you. Strick is dynamite. Man, there's so much. Can I just take a second here, Yeah, I just want to tell you,

quite sincerely, congratulations on nine episodes you've gone through. You've had several hosts, and then when you were fresh out of hosts, you just kept going by yourself, on your own, you know, with the help of producers of course the great Ramsey who's helping you now. But you have carried this brand and built it and grown it and kept this this loyal audience for all these years. And my hat is off to you with with a tremendous amount of respect I say, congratulations, thank you so much, Josh.

That means a lot. That means a h I really appreciate it. Uh. And obviously the producers and my listeners. UH, they're the reason why this show really keeps going, and I'm just very thankful to be able to do it every week. There might be some weeks where I'm going to be recording on a Wednesday and it's Tuesday afternoon and I'm still not really sure what I'm going to talk about, and I'm beating myself up because i know I'm gonna have to do a lot of research in

a short amount of time. But there are other weeks where you know, I I've just I feel great, I've got like tons of research. Sometimes the best feeling in the world is when I get messages from people who say, I want you to talk more about this thing that you mentioned, Because to me, that's saying that thing you're doing that you love to do, could you please do that more. That's the best request you can never get.

Right If if anyone says I love your show but it's too short, it's the best complaint in the world because it says I love what you do and I want you to do more of it. Um, there's just so many hours in a week, so we're giving a lot and we want to keep living. But eventually we get to a point where, if you know spoon theory, we run out of spoons. So just keep that in mind, guys. But we're gonna keep We're gonna keep going to the spoon store for you guys, as much as we can. Josh,

thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk about your experiences at stuff you should know as well as everything helps. We have both done here at How Stuff Works, and I wish you tons of success and a thousand more amazing episodes. I can't wait to hear what episode two thousand is about. Thanks buddy. All Right, Well that's it for episode nine one, Part two of the How Stuff Works story. Clearly I could have got into a lot more detail, but I

didn't want it to become too self serving. But it is really a phenomenal place to work both as a writer and a podcaster. Everyone here does amazing work. They are all experts in their various fields, and they know so much about so many things. It is a joy to come here and work, whether it's too podcast or two you know, sabotage someone else's work, as I have

been known to do upon occasion. If you are not familiar with some of the podcasts that I've mentioned in this episode, I highly recommend you go check out some of them. If there are any that I mentioned that you thought I didn't even know they had ever done that, go check it out. If you go and listen to Stuff from the B Side and you think that was an amazing show, bring it back. You should tell people

because then it might happen. But that's true for all the different shows that we've done, and you never know, you might find out that the next podcast you download becomes your brand new second favorite. Because you've got a reserve first place for me. I do not give it

up willingly. All right, Well, if you guys have any suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff, whether it is a famous person in tech, a company, a technology anything along those lines, or maybe you have a specific guest host or interview subject that you think I should have on the show, let me know. Send me an email.

The address is tech Stuff at how stuff works dot com, or draw me a line on Twitter or Facebook the handle there's tech Stuff hs W. You can also find us over on Instagram at tech stuff hs W. If you have not checked that out, you need to. Crystal is doing amazing work with that. And you can also watch me record this show live, stumbling my way through the world of technology, one paragraph at a time at twitch dot tv slash tech Stuff. We've got a chat room over there. You can join in there have a

grand old time. I also love to chat with everybody who's there, and I hope to see there. We record on Wednesdays and Friday's typically. You can find the recording schedule at the website Twitch dot tv slash tech Stuff and I will talk to you again really soon for more on this and thousands of other topics because at our stuff works dot com