The FAA and EMI

So we're talking about electronics and the F A, A and E, M, I and other uh initialisms occasionally acronyms. Uh yeah. So we're talking about why is it that you can use certain electronics on a plane at certain times, other times you're not allowed to use them unless you reach a certain altitude, and some you're not allowed to use at all. And is playing the Jeweled on your phone? Um really going to make the plane crash? Yeah? Uh.

And so we're going to cover all that now. Long time listeners of tech stuff are going to say, hey, didn't didn't you Jonathan and and Chris do something about this long time ago? And the truth is, yes, we did do an episode where we talked a little bit about electronics and planes. But the stories has developed over the years since we recorded that episode. In fact, there

was a report in June two thousand and thirteen. That's the year in which we are recording this podcast, right, just a couple months back where we are recording this at the beginning of September, by the way, yep and uh and so back in June, there was this report that initially had everyone all excited because it sounded like the f a A it was going to lift restrictions on certain electronics during takeoff and landing, meaning that you would not have to switch your kindle or your tablet

off before the plane was leading the gate right right up until you know, right now, they usually have you turned everything off before you reach ten thousand feet, right, and at that point then you can turn the cruising altitude at which you can turn on approved electronic electronics. Right. There's a little airplane mode and there's a list of approved electronic devices that you can find in whatever, in the back of your whatever brand magazine, yeah, whatever whatever

airline you happen to be on. So there was there was talk that they were going to lift those restrictions and not necessarily lift them on all electronics. So in other words, things like cell phones may still not be allowed to be used outside of airplane mode, but other electronic devices would be allowable even when you were below ten thousand feet. However, shortly after that, I think in July, at some point um that A sort of said, hey,

we were we need more time to look at this. Yeah, they were saying like like it is long overdue for us to look at the effects. However, that being said that we want to do extensive testing before we just say yes, it's it's perfectly fine. Right, So the official report is due out sometime this month supposedly. Yeah, so maybe by the time you hear this podcast, it may be that we have an official word from the f a A. But in case that would be really terrific

news gathering on on our party. Well it's just from the incredible past. Yes, yes, and in which case you you might say, like, wow, this this episode is a quaint that they're talking about this thing. Um, but we still need to talk about why is there a concern in the first place. And it all boils down to electromagnetic interference or e M I. What is em I? Jonathan, So, Lauren, you may have heard about this relationship between electricity and magnetism.

We've talked about it once or twice per episode. Yeah, it's one of those things that kind of makes electronics work. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, electric motors and dynamos are all based off this relationship between electricity and magnetism. And of course the basic way of demonstrating this is using an electromagnet, which we have all played with at some point or another. I'm sure even if you don't know it, but if

you've ever built one, you know it's simple. You take like an iron nail and you wrap some copper wire around it in several coils, and then you run a current through that copper wire. It will magnetize the nail so that you can use it like a magnet. You can pick up iron filings, anything that's you know that ferro magnetic uh feature to it. You can manipulate until you disconnect the battery, right, in which case the flow of electrons ends through that that copper wire and eventually

the magnetic properties fade away. Now, also you can end up moving a copper wire through a magnetic field, especially a fluctuating magnetic field, and that will induce electricity to flow through the wire. So any sort of conductor actually, this will happen if a conductor moves through a fluctuating magnetic field, that will induce an electric current to flow through that conductor. So this is just that basic relationship between magnetism and electricity. Again, so many our electronics really

depend upon this. And you need the voltage and current. So current is the actual flow voltage. Voltage is the difference in potential. Right, It's like you know, you get voltage if you plug a lamp into a wall socket, but you don't get current until you switch the lamp on exactly. And then once you switch that lamp on, if you were to have some sort of detector, an e m I detector near that that wire, it would detect the magnetic field. It would actually be or buzz

or whatever. And in fact, I've seen kits where or or instructions online where you can build your own e m I detector out of like an ur Duino controller and something like under an hour. Yeah yeah, yeah. So if you ever want a fun and I know that that's fun and quotation marks for some of you, but a fun programming projects something that's very simple, Uh, there are a lot of guides online to building a em I detector using in our dwino as the brains of it,

a few other pieces. It's a really clear one and um, I believe popular mechanics while I was researching for this episode. So I'll see if I can remember to link that on Twitter, right, right, and so anyway, the key here and the reason why you would want an eam I detected a couple of reasons. One is that maybe you want to see if any of your devices are using what we call vampire power. That's when the device is continuing to consume electricity even when it's turned off. Right,

it's plugged in but still running. Yeah, so there are a lot of TVs, for example, that have vampire power issues. They don't when you turn them off. They're not really all the way off. And the reason for that is so that when you turn your television on, the screen comes on quickly, and it's because there was already a low level amount of power being supplied to the set.

If you were to turn that power completely off, the warm up time would be a little longer, and as we know, customers get a little antsy if they have to wait for the t vs right that, or I

think some fluorescent bulbs work on similar principles, right. So, so in other words, if you want to be greener or you want to save money on your electric bill, and e m I detector will tell you which devices are still consuming power and if you like, you could set those up on a power strip that is that will truly turn off, because there are plenty of those on the market to where you can buy a power strip, plug your devices that use vampire power into that, and

then you just use the power strip to turn shut it off, you know, shut off the real z. Yeah, So that way you don't have to worry about any more power consumption. Another reason you might worry about e m I is if you have a medical device that is sensitive to such things like a pacemaker. So people with pacemakers can experience problems that pacemakers can can experience conflicting information when you encounter something like electromagnetic radiation. Right.

The way that pacemakers work is it detects your heartbeat, and so if it runs into some a some e m I, it could misinterpret that as either a faulty heartbeat and and if it's connected to a defilibrator give you an unwanted electric shock or even possibly misinterpreted as a healthy heartbeat, and miss giving you a shock that you need right exactly. So this is why you hear about people with pacemakers having to be very careful about

the kind of electronics they come into contact with. Usually there are very uh simple rules that they follow, things like if you if you've got a cell phone, you don't let the cell phone get within say six inches of where the device is. That kind of thing. For the most part, it's not a very big deal. It's the kind of thing that you know, the guidelines are like, well, keep your arc welders a good twelve inches away from

your chest and don't use a jackhammer. But but but these are things that obviously, you know, you're talking about matters of life and death. So clearly that's why you get these these precautions there. Some of them are perhaps overly cautious, but it's in the sense of the just to make sure a person maintains, uh, you know, a healthy life. This device and you know, anything like a like a cell phone. If you've ever put your cell phone too close to your computer speakers, especially if you

have external computer speakers and they're plugged in. If you've bought a pair of speakers that you plug in through say a headphone jack, and you have ever had your phone near them, and you hear this weird kind of electronic stuttering noise goes like dad date Like that sounds like someone's trying to uh. That actually is due to electromagnetic interference. It's when your phone is either sending out

or receiving data. So for example, if you're getting text messages or that sort of thing, Um, it's those radio waves that and the signals coming from the phone are interfering with the actual uh fields that are being generated by those wires. Now, you can create really well shielded wires that that block a lot of this interference. Fair day cage technology has come a very very very long

way since Mr Faraday. Yeah, so we are able to insulate wires really well so that one we prevent leakage, because that is a thing where where electronics can leak electrons and thus either have errors or they're less efficient as far as power goes. And you can also block interference. So if you've got a really nice pair of speakers or headphones or whatever, it is then that's going to block a lot more of that E m I and you're not going to get those weird little stuttering noises.

Uh So the reason why we're even mentioning this is that on your typical aircraft, there are a few different systems that use wires, all of them. As as it turns out, an aircraft is made of electronics, and you know, the the radio when it's talking to ground control and air traffic, the radar, which you know gets the plane places,

which is kind of import sure. Yeah, there's uh there's a specific kind of radio, a c n S radio also known as communication navigation surveillance radio that's getting navigation information as the aircraft is traveling. That's a very important piece of equipment. And there are other things as well that could in theory be affected by electronics and specifically

electromagnetic interference. So if you have a device that gives off a great deal of E m I and you happen to be in an area where you are near the circuit, yeah, then you could introduce some interference. So that's the biggest fear, right. Well, here's the thing is that most aircraft are shielded pretty well against this sort

of stuff. But it's the the concern is still there because again you're talking about a maybe it's a low risk, but it's a high impact problem obviously, so it may not happen frequently, but if it does happen, that could be catastrophic, which again is why we have these these really tie restrictions on electronics. It's not so much that, uh, they are that the government is unaware. The f a A is unaware that most electronic devices put out a very very tiny footprint when it comes to this sort

of stuff. They're aware of that, but they're also aware that the the potential outcome of a worst case scenario is absolutely catastrophic. So with that in mind, that's when you you know, you have to try and prevent the worst case scenario from happening. Now, all of this dates back to the nineteen sixties really, and that's when it became pretty clear that handheld electronic devices could be an issue.

You see, there are different sources of em my interference or about the same thing, is the same thing as a t M machine or interfere my interference. Okay, there's several sources of em I, not just your you know, cell phone or your e reader or tablet or whatever. There's stuff like lightning. Yeah, and and records about that go back to about the nineteen thirties, I think is when we started having in the United States anyway f A regulations about how to protect planes from lightning strikes.

Right now, you know, lightning is a very powerful, powerful thing. Obviously you're talking about incredible amounts of energy when with the typical lightning strike, but even today, like if you were to talk about a direct lightning strike, because planes

do get hit by lightning. If you were if you were in a plane and you got hit by lightning, that lightning is going to have a minimal impact on the aircraft because aircraft have been designed since the thirties to resist lightning strikes, to to be able to continue operation with minimal if any interruption in any kind of service, to make sure that you know, we can get there safely from point A to point B. And so I've actually been in a plane that's been struck by lightning.

I sitting at a window seat right there by the wing. It was spectacular. Spectacular sounds like one word for it. But and I was a kid at the time. I just thought it was cool, but the kid that would be great, and nothing nothing happened, Like there's not a flicker of lights, nothing, nothing scary happened other than the fact that I saw lightning hit the plane, um, which certain some of our listeners would argue is terrifying, but I thought it was kind of cool at the time.

But other things too, Right, well, as we started developing more portable electronics and I'm not talking about your your iPhone, I'm talking about radio and electronic devices that helped to um autonomize flight. Oh yes, which which is what started happening in the sixties, which is why these regulations started

popping up. Sure, yeah, that was the rise of two different things, just like you were pointing out the fact that we were getting things like like the automatic pilot type of technology, as well as the fact that the transistor had suddenly made electronics portable. Right, that whole thing, that that thing where computers no longer had to be the size of say, an airplane, they could be a little bit smaller. Or a radio radio is the size of your television console, which is also the size of

your Cadillac. Yeah. Right. Also, did I just say autonomate because that's amazing. Well, hey, all I can tell you is that I come from a suburban area. Longtime listeners

of tech stuff will appreciate that reference. I still haven't lived that one down, but yeah, we're talking about the fact that that you suddenly had people capable of bringing electronic devices aboard a plane on their person because now they were small enough to do that, and we had these more sensitive devices that were part of plane systems, and it became clear that a something as simple as a compact radio receiver could interfere with VHF omni ranging

navigation systems aboard and aircraft. These were studies being done by NASA at the time. Yeah, NASA did this, and so did the Radio Technical Commission for Aeronautics did one, which at the time was still a actual part of the government. I think at this point in time it's a independent, not for profit company that is tasked with

all of their research that the FAA wants done. So the the big paper that came out in the sixties that kind of set the rules for what we think of today, as you know, follow these instructions and you can use electronic devices. The paper is called Interference to Aircraft Electronic equipment from devices carried aboard. So that's where we got this idea that personal electronic devices or peds p e d s are a potential source of malfunction

or dysfunction aboard and aircraft. So it's a complicated issue in the nineteen seventies and got more complicated because that's when the aircraft industry really began to look at other sources of e m I, not just lightning strikes, but things like broadcast hours. We have all these different radio towers, television towers, communication towers that are sending out vast amounts

of information via radio. Right. The nineteen seventies was also, if you remember from our recent Cutting the Cord Cable podcast, that was when many cable companies started um started transmitting to larger areas. Yeah, so we've got all these different potential sources of e m I, and again the aircraft needed to be shielded against that sort of stuff. Yeah.

Then then again around two thousand three and two thousand four, when we started seeing more, uh more cellular phones being carried onto planes, that was when we started getting a few studies about these um they call them a transmitting pads or tea pads. Right, which which are transmitting signals on purpose. Right, So you've got two different kinds of pads. Then, right,

you've personal electron devices. You've got your kind that will transmit information or or at least rather transmit electromagnetic and interference simply through the operation. But they're not it's that's not their main purpose. It's just a byproduct by the fact that they are electronics. And then you have the the transmitting ones that are specifically things like radios or cell phones, that kind of stuff that are emitting and

receiving radio waves or other signals. So, uh, if you look at your list of approved electronic devices, you're gonna see a lot of the pads on there, and uh, for the ones that don't make the list, you're gonna see some teap heads on there. Although there's some changes obviously because now we have things like WiFi aboard planes, and WiFi allows us to use things like you can use a cell phone in airplane mode that can connect via WiFi, or you can use a laptop that has WiFi.

So there's some confusion here, at least among the consumer level, about well, why can I use these devices that do have wireless communication standards attached to them, but not these

other devices that use different anders. And further complicating it, there's some international flights that will allow you to use a cellular phone for cellular purposes on on a flight, but it's a in that specific case, they're connecting to a ground station that is capable of dealing with the fact that that you're in a five mile per hour what's that like, eight hundred kilometer per hour moving airplane,

otherwise you're gonna start mucking up the cellular system. Well, the fact that you'd be doing those handshakes every five seconds as you move from one cellular tower to another. In fact, that's that's also the way that if you've ever been on a plane that had a phone in the back of one of the seats in front of you, where you could swipe your credit card and use the phone, same sort of thing, where it was using specific ground uh.

I don't think any of them were satellite phones that would have been pretty incredible, but I think all of them used the ground central control thing where you would, depending upon your position among your flight, you would call into a very specific station. They were also really expensive. Um so NASA when it was looking at em I threats. It classifies threats in three ways. It looks at the source,

the path, and the victim. So the source is whatever device is actually generating the e m I. The path is how that e m I travels through space, whether it's radiating out from the device itself or whether it is connected to a to a power line, to a ground line. Right, yeah, whether it's transmitting ground line doesn't count in there. Well, if it's if it's connected to the power source of the plane, or if it's connected

directly into some other system of the plane. Because we're not just talking about the electronics that we carry on board. There are electronic devices that are that the crew are using that that can connect directly to flight systems, uh, that sort of thing. But how does that e m I travel from the device? And in the case of all p e D s, really we're talking radiating here, it's it's not directly connected to the flight systems. And then the victim is whatever system would be affected by that.

And again, when we were talking about the different systems that could be affected on a plane, one of the most um vulnerable really traditionally at any rate, is that communication, navigation, surveillance radio, the CNS radio. So this is one that of course the name kind of gives it away. It gets it's part of the navigation system for the plane.

And errors from e m I could mean that the pilot has erroneous information or that some of his instruments or her instruments are not properly displaying the right kinds of data, which could lead to uh to human error, or it could actually lead to another Yeah, and the computer might might suddenly and see that there are changing parameters and try to adjust for that, when in fact that parameters aren't changing. So that's where the concern is,

but doesn't really happen. Well, we'll get into the actual results sort of things. Talk about some actual reported assumed incidents. In some case some some studies, there's little quote marks in the air that have been Yeah, but with some some studies that have been done. We'll talk about those in just a minute. But first let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor, and now let's get back

to some e m I information. Some let's really talk about what the documented incidents like, actual documented cases of personal electronic devices causing problems with aircraft. Technically, there are none. I've got a whole bunch of documented ones that maybe Okay, it depends on it depends on what we mean by documented, because in all of these cases, we're we're gonna be talking about studies from several different organizations, and um, as far as I have read, none of them were reproducible

in a lab setting. Right. See, here's the problem is that a lot of these are What happens is some error happens, right, something goes wrong on the plane, and then they start to look for the cause. So this is where we get the effect, and then we're looking

for the cause. And in those cases, someone aboard the plane was identified as being as using a device near wiring that would have mattered, and so the while there's no direct evidence supporting the fact that the device caused the error, that was the conclusion drawn in these incident reports. So it may very well be that the reports and what happened have nothing to do with each other. It may be that the cause of these errors was completely

independent of any sort of personal electronic device use. And in fact, like you said, Lauren, when it comes to trying to reproduce season in the lab settings, we're having some trouble getting stuff to go wrong on purpose. In fact, I think MythBusters did a full episode on this too, where they showed that the devices just don't generate signals powerful enough to really interfere with the typical systems you

find aboard a plane today. Now, granted, keep in mind, if we go back five decades, it's a different story. But today we've got planes that are shielded against broadcast transmissions and lightning strikes. Most of them can handle it. If you turn the page so you can find out if Tyrian lives another day spoiler alert. No, I'm not gonna do it, you guys, You guys just have to wait. Because George R. Arman and I were buddies, you know. I'm just just don't get too attached, That's all I'm saying.

And and and I do want to say that the best correlations that I've read about happened around the midnighteteen nineties um as a more powerful transmitting personal electronic devices were coming out, but perhaps before planes had started taking into account the fact that a lot of passengers would have had those right right, so so so there in the past there could have been some truly legitimate incidents

that we're going to be talking about. In fact, one of the things I'm going to talk about specifically looked at UH incidents between n six and nine. Now that's before the smartphone explosion in the in the consumer marketplace, right, We've got to go to about two thousand seven when the iPhone started coming out to really get to that. It's before tablets, not technically, before tablets were more, tablets

were really a thing. Even your laptop in that area era was not the easiest thing to carry onto a plane. But between eighty six and nine, according to NASA, there were one eighteen e m I incidents on planes due to pe D interference. UM eighteen is not a lot, but for than for more than a decade, for all flights. I mean there are thousands of flights a day. Then you multiply that by how many days they are in a year, multiply that by how many years in this study,

and it's a tiny, tiny amount of incidents. And you think about this, I'm guessing that electronics use is not that rare aboard a plane. But anyway, at eighteen, about twenty five of those actually twenty five of those exactly where cell phone related twenty five were laptop related, fourteen were related to electronic games, thirteen were tape recorder related, thirteen were radio related, twelve were not identified at all, seven were CD players and other devices included a dictaphone.

How it really was the eighties, I can't can you imagine saying next to someone on a plane who's using a dictaphone? I can imagine that calculator, portable TV, and one Baldwin who refused to turn his electronic device off despite being told multiple times to do so. Um, that actually is not true. I'm just making that part up because that happened later. So by comparison, Uh, there's another report that the f A a put out that looked at flights between ninety one and two thousand thirteen that

identified one thirty five incidents. And again, now here here we have more than two decades of flights and a hundred thirty five incidents. Um, and it's just like you said, Lauren, none of these were necessarily connected by evidence. It was all anecdotal. Really, it was the idea that something has gone wrong with the instrumentation. Uh. The flight attendants and the crew in general started looking to see if anyone was using an electried device, asked them to turn it off,

and then said things were fine afterwards. But this does not necessarily mean that there's a causation issue. There, there's a correlation issue. We see these two things co related because they're happening at the same time in the same place, but that does not necessarily mean that one caused the other, right right, Um. There was an independent study done by

Boeing on um. They received were that that a customers um quote unquote palm top computer palm top I love that term um anyway had had had caused the airplane to initiate a shallow bank turn, and turning the device off made it stop, turning it back on made it start up again. And and so they were like, no, this looks like a thing. But again, in in a in a laboratory situation, they tried they bought versions of whatever palm top computer device were in use, and and

tried to make it happen again and could not. So yeah, and other studies seemed to follow that same anecdotal approach. The International Air Transport Association released a paper talking about seventy five cases of aircraft dysfunction between two thousand three and two thousand nine. Uh, now that's a six year span right there, in seventy five cases, and six years, while still very very tiny, is more. That's more frequently

than the other two studies had indicated. But even this report was just based on airline cruise beliefs that specific malfunctions were due to the use of electrying devices on board. Right. Um, the last time that an official study was done by the f A A by specifically that Radio Technical Commission for Aeronautics or I think it's just called r t c A these days these days since it's a private corporation. Now, Um, they did a study also from two thousand three to

two thousand nine and concluded that there was insufficient information. Yeah, which is always my favorite, my favorite kind of conclusion. That's my favorite kind whenever I'm searching for something specific online and it's just that I have either mispelled something or put things that make sense to Jonathan but not

to the rest of the world. Uh. Yeah, it's uh, it's interesting that one of the cases that they talked about in that I a t A report was that when a laptop was being used, a plane's clock started to spend backwards. But I think there might also have been a doctor on board that plane, perhaps with the song Screwdriver um, or maybe they were they were really close to this, to this weird island that a whole bunch of people got lost on this one time. I

don't know. I don't know. I only watched the first six episodes of that series, so I only kind of get that reference. Yeah, these are again the the fact that there were things that happened in the field or in the air if you prefer, um that that leads us to have some concern obviously, but when it comes down to trying to actually track down the cause, it

seems like we're going down a rabbit hole now. Uh. Passenger behavior suggests that maybe we really need to just concentrate on shielding the heck out of all the airplane systems and just go ahead and assume that people are going to use their electronics whenever they want, no matter what the rules happened to say, because spoiler alert, that's

kind of what's happening already. Um. The f f a A again did a survey of passengers and found that only six past years report following the instructions to turn off all electronic devices before take off and before landing. UM. So that means just under half are not doing that. Shame on you. I'm granted. If the rules are silly, let's let's change the rules. The follow the rules. I'm lawful,

evil it's it's it's difficult sometimes. I mean, for for example, I have a kindle and um, it is this specific kind of kindle does not have an off button. It is physically impossible to turn it off. I can turn off the Wi Fi function um, which I usually keep off to save the battery life. But U but it drives me crazy that if I'm sitting there and reading a book and minding my own business, you know, and and a well meaning flight attendants will say, hey, turn

that off, and I say, I'll shut it right now. Now. You have stopped me from reading the thing I was reading. But I was not using any power. I wasn't using any power. And it's not going to make a difference in the power or usage whether whether I close the cover and put it down or not. It's you're you're

only preventing me from doing something that I enjoy. Well, the only time that you consume any power with an e reader that doesn't have its wife I turned on is when you turn a page, because that has to regenerate that inc but once the ink is in place, then it's set. It doesn't need to continually, you know, exert power to do that. That's why E reader battery life is so incredible compared to other electronics. As long as they're using E paper, right, as long as they're

using the ink or E paper, then that's why. Um So, the fact that passenger behavior has shown that people are unwilling to turn things off, whether it's on purpose or just through lack of attention or whatever, that suggests to me that we have to really look at you know, you just have to assume that people are using electronics on board that plane, no matter what the rules are, because otherwise, if you don't assume that, you're not going to take the precautions necessary to make sure that the

flight is as safe as possible. To be fair, these devices are useful to the staffs of airplanes as well, and in fact, many people do use them right right on American airlines. I think they use iPads in the cockpit in order to not have to tote around those giant paper manuals all the time. And uh, and that he does have like a six month clearance process for

forgetting that approved UM through rigorous testing. But I feel like once you've approved cockpit use for a tablet, it should be you would think that most of the gauges at least are I certainly have fewer of them on my seat when I fly. It's so irritating when the pilot comes back into Row thirty eight and leans over and says, I just need to look at something really quickly to make sure that we're going the right way and it goes up. I hate that, you know, especially

for those short flights. It's just it's ridiculous. UM. Yeah, no, clearly, I agree, and we do think that we're going to see some looser restrictions on what what devices you can use and when you can use them. I think that cell phones are going to probably be the longest hold

out UM, at least in the the United States. Like you said, Lauren, there are some other airlines international airlines that allow cell phone use, but the U S it's has resisted at quite I think I think it would be a matter of putting down the infrastructure, and that at the current moment there's not enough UM perceived benefit to actually put forth the money to do so. I think most I

think most, Um, I don't know that most people. I think there are plenty of people who share my mindset, which is that please don't let people talk on the phone on the plane. Please. Certainly, unless I had significantly more space around me on an airplane, I would not want my neighbors to be able to be on the phone for the entire flight. WiFi fine, fine, as are not using Skype, which they probably can't because usually the

WiFi or the plane is pretty awful. Yeah, anyway, that's where we are now, and who knows, maybe by the time this podcast go is live, the f a A will have lifted some of those restrictions, and Lauren, you might even be allowed to read your book while the plane is taxiing to take off. That's ridiculous. I look forward to this ridiculous feature. I also look forward to it because I just recently put in my registration information for ce S T fourteen, so I've got definitely got

a flight coming up in my future. Yeah all right, So guys, that wraps up this discussion about the electronics in the f a A, and we'll see again how this plays out. Why don't you guys right in tell us what you think. Let's know, if you know, are you one of those people who you just quietly keep all your electronics running on full blast. Maybe you're like me and one day discovered in midflight that you had forgotten to turn off your cell phone when it suddenly

started vibrating in your pants. That happened to me once. I was very embarrassed. Or maybe maybe you're a person who you always follow the rule and you find anyone who doesn't follow the rules to be the most irritating person on the planet ever at that particular moment, I also can be that guy. I'm the one who gives the stink eye to the person next to me who that job. Yeah, you know, we all have our we'll have our flaws, So right in and let us know

what you think. Our email address is tech stuff at Discovery dot com, or drop us a line on Facebook or Twitter handle there's tech stuff hs W. And hey, hey, hey, what if I wanted to tumble someplace? You can. You can tumble on the fine floor of our podcast studio, Jonathan Um, or you can in a gymnastics way, or you can you can find You can find us on tumbler are our handle. There is also tech stuff hs W I hit my head All right, guys, Well that wraps this up. We'll talk to you again really soon.

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