TechStuff Looks at the Digital Divide

chance to try out their service. One audio book to consider is The Singularity Is Near When Humans Transcend Biology by Ray kirtzwil Churtswaile explores a future where man and machine are one and the same. Text Stuff is fascinated by the idea of singularity, and this is a great book to learn more about it. The Singularity Is Near When Humans Transcend Biology by Ray kirtzwild available from Audible. To try Audible free to day and get a free

audiobook of your choice. Get to an Audible podcast dot com slash tech Stuff. That's Audible podcast dot com slash tech Stuff. Hello everyone, and welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and I am an editor at how stuff works dot com. Sitting across from me as always a senior writer, Jonathan Strickland. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It was the age of wisdom. It was the age of foolishness. It was the epic of belief. It was the epoch

of incredulity. It was the season of light. It was the season of darkness. It was the spring of hope. It was the winter of despair. And if you know where the dickens he came up with that one, let us know the way to go. It ain't Shakespeare, it isn't. Today.

We wanted to talk about a subject that was a suggestion from one of our sister podcasts, Yes Indeed Stuff Mom never told you we gotta We got a tweet from Sminty and Sminty said, hey, maybe you guys should do a podcast about this, and it was about a digital divide, a new kind of digital divide, and really to talk about what this is, I think we need to go back a bit and just sort of talk about the concept of the digital divide to begin with, to explain like what the idea that the historical idea

of the digital divide versus what we currently are looking at now. Yeah, yeah, this goes back quite some time. Um, you know, at least to the sixteenth century. No, I'm kidding, UM, and it's really not nothing to get about frankly. Um, Basically we're talking about access to electronic tools, probably most specifically used in my experience reading about it in educational terms, whether people have access to electronic uh devices most again,

most usually computers for educational purposes. UM. I think in the last few years it's grown to include, um, the Internet, Internet access as well, and that that sort of ties into a theme that we've mentioned a couple of times recently because people have been talking about why their access

to the Internet is right or privilege. Um. But yeah, the digital divide, when you hear people talk about it, it's basically saying, uh, there are people who are halves and who are have not in terms of computer access to computers for educational purposes. Right. Craig Warren Smith, who is the founder of the Digital Divide Institute, defines it this way. Says that it refers to the gap between those who can benefit from digital technology and those who cannot.

And that's important because benefiting from technology is different from having access to it. That's true because you can have access to technology and see no benefit from it. And in fact, at the Digital Divide Institute, he goes on further to express some concerns about how throwing technology at people is not a solution to bridging the digital divide, because if it has no application in that person's life,

there's going to be no benefit from that technology. And in fact, depending upon how that technology is used by the person who receives it, it could end up harming that population rather than helping it. And here's an example that he gives. He says, all right, imagine that you go into a very poor community in UH, perhaps in

a developing country, like a developing world country. So you go into this country and you go to this poor community where they have very little infrastructure, very little access to technology, and then you do this whole low price laptop per child UH initiative, and you give all the kids laptops, but they don't really have the infrastructure there, and the laptops themselves, even though the laptops were designed to be low cost items, most of the things that

we access through our our computers tend to be targeted towards a fairly affluent demographic. I mean, it's it's well, there's no way of getting around it. The stuff on the Internet that we tend to go and look at seems to be geared towards people who have money to spend, and it's just that it's the way the business works because it's not just a it's not like it's a public entity. It's this collection of private entities and public

entities altogether. Right, So if you give these kids these laptops, it may turn out that they cannot use the laptops for what we would hope they would use them for, because they just don't have the infrastructure there, they don't have the education there. So instead they start playing violent video games, and that's what they end up getting. It.

They really enjoy playing the games. It's great escapism for them, but it takes away the time that they could have been using towards education and empowerment and instead have them focusing on entertainment, which, if taken to extremes, could end up hurting them. Not that the violent video games themselves are going to cause the kids to be violent, but that their focus has been taken away from from well

in powerment. That's that's the best phrase to use. Really, So what you're saying is, uh, well, games could be useful in balance as far as in terms of entertainment. Um, they could also be taking the place of the intended purpose of providing these kids with technology, which is education.

Right if they're if they're the rest of the infrastructure is not there and the and the education is not there, then there may not be any uh any any ability for the kid, Like even if the kid wanted to use their their laptop two research something or learn about something, if the rest of the infrastructure is not there, they may not be able to do that. So that that was the kind of example that Craig Warren Smith was

giving in his on his website. Now. Um, but there is still also a much simpler way of looking at the digital divide, which is just saying people who have access in people who don't. I mean there, that's it's a very clear divide there. So we're talking here things like ideas like broadband penetration, and we've talked about this in the podcast in the past as well. I believe I could. I was actually trying to find the the episode.

I know it's one of our older ones, but I remember we specifically we're talking about some of the countries that have the best broadband penetration versus others, and the United States tends to be in the teens like usually like sixteen or seventeenth place for broadband penetration. Pretty good,

but not the best. And for people who are from the United States and who know that the Internet really got its start here in the United States, it seems a little unusual to think that the U s would be so comparatively low if there if the country was exactly you know, the place, the birthplace of the Internet. But the the simple fact is the US is a really big country and populations are spread very far apart.

So building out an infrastructure where you can have broadband access across the board through the entire population is an incredibly challengeing uh task. We remember we mentioned in Canada the broadband penetration. There the challenge. Even though Canada is a big country, it's not it's not as difficult to reach the majority of the population in Canada because most of them live in the southern half of the country.

Now there are people who live in the northern half of the country and a lot of them don't have broadband, and it would be very challenging to get the broadband to them. But because the majority of the populations in the southern half, you would be able to hit the majority of the population more easily than say, in the United States, where you've got some pretty spread out communities, especially in places out out west, so east of California, but west of pretty much everywhere else. Um, so that

that is a real problem. And you were talking about the just the the lack of access, uh. And then once you get the access there, then you have other issues that pop up. And that's kind of what leads us into the uh the article that was said to us from Sminty Well, Um, yeah, and the arguments that

you see, uh, you know, they're there a number of reasons. Um, you know, it's it's not completely geographical, but that is an important distinction because, um, yes, there are people who simply cannot afford uh the electronic resources that would would make it possible for them to get online. Right, So they're economic barriers geographic barriers. There's also depending on I mean, there's so many surveys out there that examine who has

access to technology and what demographics they belong to. And there are some interesting divides. Age can play a factor, gender, race, your education background, all this sort of stuff can can play into the whole digital divide issue. And also, um, how you access the internet or how you know you even if you have access, how you access it can play a big part. So, uh yeah, it's a very

complicated issue. And if you are ever interested in in testing this sort of stuff, like doing surveys and trying to figure out, you know, where does this digital divide really stem from, it's incredibly challenging because you have to control for so many different variables that to test a specific variable is very very difficult. Now is it is it the person's age that plays more of a role in this particular case, or is it their race or

their gender? I mean all these sort of things. You know, you have to you have to do lots and lots of different studies to kind of whittle this down. And even then you wouldn't necessarily find a cause. You might just be able to identify general trends and that that can give you a useful information, but ultimately it may not give you the solution, right, It just tells you. It gives you more information about what's happening, But doesn't

necessarily give you a way of solving the problem. Right. Um, one thing that has gone there there's many things that

are are factors in reducing the digital divide. Um. I think after it was first identified, and I would argue probably about the mid ninety nineties, actually there was a big deal in some of the political discussions, especially in the mid to late nineties, so much so that there were some I actually have read articles that came out in opposition to the rhetoric saying that the arguments about the digital divide were kind of overblown and that more

people had access than what was commonly believed, and that the divide was, although present, not as as big a deal as was being made in the political arena in the late nineties. Um. Yeah, the probably the price of computers has dropped significantly since. Uh, the the arguments have been were first poised to the to the group actually meant posed, but we'll skip that. Um. Um. So yeah, I mean there are things that have gone that are

they're helping somewhat. Um. You know that that's one of them. Um. You know. Another is that computers are penetrating more places where people can use them. They're more common in schools. Now, Um, they're certainly more common in public libraries here in the

United States. Um, that doesn't solve the digital divide, but it helps somewhat and another another venue for the Internet, and that actually plays into the article that that Sminty sent us was, uh, the the availability of uh the Internet via smartphones and other portable devices, which of course we've talked about many times here on tech stuff because uh mobile computing of all kinds uh tablets, UM, smartphones and all sorts of other devices, you know, mobile cards

for your laptop. Uh. That's it's become very very popular in the last few years. And that's where um, people who are who may not be able to afford computers, they might be able to afford a smartphone here in

the United States through deep discounts on on fountains. When a carrier will offer make an offer special offer, right you you sign up for a two year deal and then you get your phone for you know, fifty bucks or maybe even free, depending on the I mean the phone I have right in front of me, I got on a special day where I renewed my contract and I got the phone for free. So yeah, I mean it's it's at least the initial cost of purchasing it

is lower. Ultimately, if you go through the life of a computer, um, and it's and and you know you've got a decent carrier. There's there's a lot of I s p s out there, right, I mean there's there's big they're big i sp s, and there are a lot of smaller ones where in some markets you've got at least a little bit of choice, not not as much as I would like. And there I have lived

in markets where really there was no choice. You know, you either had UM either well neither y Max, or you had you had a specific cable company depending on where you were in the in the area. Right. But but if you can shop around, you might be able to find a data plan for through a cable company or through Ymax or what or LTE or whatever that ends up being UM less than a full cell plan on a smartphone. Uh So, it all depends on if you're looking at the lifetime of the device or the

initial purchase price. But it's it's impossible to deny I mean initial purchase price. The smartphone is the way to go if you're on the budget, because they are less expensive and they're often subsidized, so it makes it even you know, might even be free once you sign a way the two years that you'll be stuck with that phone. Um, and that's yeah. So let's let's talk about this article that was sent to us. So it's called how Big Telecom used smartphones to create a new Digital Divide, and

it was published on color lines dot com. And uh, it's an interesting article. Um, I think I think first of all, Uh, Chris and I both feel a little uneasy about the the headline because the way the headline, to me, perhaps I shouldn't speak for you, Chris, I'm a little uneasy about the headline. The headline says, you know, how big telecom used smartphones to create a new digital divide.

To me, that implies there was a motivation behind that, like like that was the purpose of the They purposefully tried to create a new digital divide. I'm not I'm not willing to go so far as to suggest that. I would say that what the telecom companies have done has created a new digital divide, But that wasn't necessarily the intent. It's just that there's there's no reason for them not to do it. Yeah, it's it's from their perspective,

I should say, right, right, Um, the author Jamala King. Um, basically, you know, through the through the article. I think the article was was fairly well written, very well written, very well researched. Yes, I agree with that completely. Um, I think basically, uh yeah, I mean the thing to note is, I think it's not that the companies are acting personally.

I think that they're acting completely impersonally. Yeah, it's a it's an amoral approach, not an immoral approach, although some of I'm sure if you were looking at this from a different perspective, you could say that some of the actions that have been carried out have been immoral. Uh, the intent behind it was amoral because it was really, you know, this is the move this company needs to

make in order to make more profit. So it's not like it's you know, it's it's not the wealthy tycoon sitting behind the desk twirling his mustache and laughing, you know, doing his maniacal laugh over and over. Let's talk about what the article actually says and so so the listeners

who haven't read it yet might might understand. Um. One of the points that King makes in the article is that UH, in the United States, smartphone usage is up among groups that are traditionally on UH for for some reasons, mostly economic reasons. I would I would say, um are maybe on the other side of the digital divide in this case, uh, the black and Hispanic populations. Yeah, so

among among blacks and Latinos, we're seeing smartphone rise. Smartphone use rise much more rapidly to access the Internet via smartphone, yeah, compared to the white population. So uh, it's not that that that white folks aren't, you know, accessing the Internet via smartphone. It's just that they still are accessing there. They tend to access it through broadband connects more frequently

than Blacks and Latinos do. Blacks and Latinos tend to use mobile devices on mobile carriers more frequently than the whites do. And the reason why this is a digital divide issue is because the if you are on a broadband I s P, that I s P is governed by certain regulations set up by the f c C about net neutrality. And if you've heard us talk about net neutrality before, you kind of have an idea about this.

But in general, the idea behind net neutrality is that person who accesses the Internet should have an expectation that they are able to access everything that's on the Internet, just as if they were on any other I s p They shouldn't have a different experience if they're on I s P A than they would if they were on I s p B, apart from you know, the regular differences of how fast that that particular infrastructure is.

But I s p A would not be able to block certain sites that belong to some other company or throttle traffic to certain sites just to discourage people from going to one set instead of another set. You know, none of that is supposed to happen. So let's say that I'm on I s P A and I want to access how stuff Works dot com. But how stuff Works dot Com for some reason, has been targeted by I s p A as saying, you know what, I would much rather if they went to this other website.

So what I'm gonna do is I'm going to put an artificial barrier in the way so that anytime you try to go to how stuff works dot Com, you just it just loads, takes forever to load. I mean, it's even on the fastest connection. For some reason, but if you go to this other website which is helpfully linked to on your I S P S homepage, it's blazing fast. That would be a problem, and that's something the FCC says, no, no, no, you cannot do that.

So if you are accessing the Internet through a broadband connection, then you are at least in theory, having an unfilled

for the most part experience. It's not that case with mobile devices because when those regulations were finally decided upon in this took years and years to put together and put into action, But when they were finally put into place, mobile was conspicuously absent from that, in fact, to the point where there were there were even some mentions about that whenever when the regulations went up about how the mobile companies had argued that this sort of approach would

hamper hamper them, it would hinder their ability to do business, and therefore they should not be put to the same standards as broadband and part of these uh as talking about the the broadband ones and information based approach, and mobile is supposedly a communications based approach, one that means own at the very you know, into the line, if you want to just cut to the chase is that the mobile companies can can mess with you. I mean

if they there's nothing, there's no regulation that says they cannot. Uh, inspired you encourage you to go to one set of sights versus another, or even block content. Uh. There was a mention within the article that we read that there was a case where a carrier did block text messages from one company out to customers across it's it's a customer base. It blocked those messages, saying that that was the company had a stance against this controversial topic, meaning

that the customers themselves had no say in it. They just didn't get the messages. And so there are no regulations that prevent that. You know, it's a private company censorship. Private company doesn't matter, it's not a government body, So they can they can do that, and since the regulations don't cover the mobile companies, there's nothing standing in the way. And this this is the basis or one of the the I guess foundations for the argument about the new

digital divide. If you have populations that are primarily accessing the Internet through mobile devices, and these carriers that that service these mobile devices are unregulated in any way, the experience they have by definition, is going to be different from people who use broadband. Yeah, yeah, well that's yeah,

I think that's that's really the point there. There are populations that are relying on smartphones to get access and because the companies are are un you know, are are free to do as they please as far as filtering content and censoring content, then that u means that people who might be reliant on uh there these providers to get to the internet means that they are um unable to get access freely to that information and therefore, um they are hampered by by the way they are able

to get online. So again, that's the the argument that we said at the beginning about how the digital digital divide. Man, I just can't say digital today the digital divide. Thank goodness, we pick this is our topic that that it's the benefit of technology that creates the divide, not just the access to it. Because again you could say, well, look, I mean that smartphones are everywhere, look how popular they are. So yeah, but if you if you cannot access all

the information, then there is a divide there. That's kind of the definition. It's It's funny because in talking this through, um, I would argue that maybe our initial criticism of the headline might be softened a bit because the carriers are in fact doing that part of it on purpose. They're not creating the digital divide on purpose, but they are actively choosing what is and what is not accessible on their networks by their subscribers, no matter what their ethnic,

or financial or religious backgrounds are. It's just that they're they're not targeting specific populations though. No, well, that's that's part of the problem, is that when and again maybe maybe it's because maybe I shouldn't say the headline implied that, I'll say I inferred it from the headline. I'll put

it on me. However, another point made in the article was that, um, the advertising used by the providers, they've they've caught on to the fact that, um, there is a wealth of diversity in the in the customer base that they are reaching out to, and they are saying that, UM, you know, it doesn't matter who you are, you can use our services, and it makes it more welcoming to people who may uh realize that, um, this may be

the best way for them to get internet access. UM. So you know, but I still don't think that they are intentionally trying to drive a wedge between segments of the population in terms of Internet access. Now they're trying to maximize profits, which if if maximizing profits meant bringing populations together, that's exactly what they would be doing. So again, it's that amoral approach. It's that it when they identify a pathway that's going to end up making them lots

of money, that's the pathway they're going to take. So but another point that was made, and I think it's a it's a legitimate one, is that there's certain tasks that you can do on the Internet that are harder to do if you're doing it through a mobile device. Yes, I agree with that. So for example, if you are job hunting and you want to fill out a job application online, it is much easier to do that on

a computer that is on a smartphone. And as miss I'm sorry, as King points out in the article is uh, many companies are requiring online access to fill out an application. Um. And uh. You know, of course in some cases, UM, I have seen terminals in stores used specifically for that purpose. So if you want to work at a retail store and some of the companies mentioned and there are retail institutions, you can walk into a location and actually fill out

the online application online now here. Again, if you don't have access to technology, you may be less familiar with the skills needed to fill out an application on the computer. Um. That's another digital divide issue. If you don't know how to use a computer very well and you're asked, you know, they say, yeah, sure you can, you can fill out an application. Feel free walk over here and use the computer. I'll be over here. You know. Well, I don't want to look like I don't know what I'm doing, so

I'm gonna go, you know, take a stab at this. Um. You know, when you go in for a job at interviewer application of course. Uh you know. I was always told during the application process you want to create a positive impression. So somebody might be who who is less familiar with computers might be reluctant to go, hey, you know what, I really don't know how to use a computer very well. I've only done it a handful of times. I'm not sure I know what I'm doing. UM. You

know you I personally would be uh concerned about that. Um, you know, a little reticent to go hey, you know I don't I don't know what I'm doing and have and worry about the person who is helping me judging me, you know. Um, So you know that's a that's a serious issue. If you're trying to find work and the only way you can fill out an application is online. Um, you might go to the library or it's it's really

hard to do on a smartphone. So you know, if that's the only way you have access where you can do that in the privacy, where you feel like I'm going to need extra time to do this, that's a serious issue. It's reminded me a lot about the arguments I had about why I thought the iPad wouldn't take off even though it did. And it's because it's the way I use the Internet. That's why. That's probably why I had problems, because I was coming from it from my own experience. Uh. And the reason is is that

mobile devices are great at consuming content. They're they're great for doing things like watching a video or listening to music. Uh. And and then they're they're great for communication, so instant messages, emails, text messaging, that kind of stuff. Um, they're great for that. They're not so great for anything that's heavier than that. Anything where you're you're filling out forms or your uh writing something longer than just a short email message, that's

just not what there for. And if you have a population that primarily accesses the Internet through a device that is mainly used for consumption, there's no surprise that there's going to be a bigger gap here, right, and and so and the and the other part of this equation. The other thing that makes us so tricky is that every year that goes by, we are more and more dependent upon the upon technology in general and the Internet

in particular. It is playing a larger role and how we make all sorts of decisions based everything from career decisions, educational decisions, uh, just how we interact with our friends, how we get to the entertainment that we like. All of these things are playing larger roles within the Internet, and so as we depend on that more and more each year, it's going to become even more important that we have the right right way is probably the wrong

way of saying this. The most open and accessible way to get to that that Internet, you know, if you're doing it through a mobile device, as great as that mobile device is the limitations of the mobile form factor maybe enough to push you off to the side, and so that could very well create another sort of weird class system where we've got the class of people who all had access to the internet, um in an unfettered way, and who thus have an advantage over those who did not.

It's not to say that the people who did not cannot overcome that disadvantage. There's gonna be plenty of stories about people who will overcome disadvantages and will be incredible success stories. But it's just not a level playing ground. So it's not so much that you can't succeed if you only consume the Internet through mobile devices. I don't mean to say that. I just mean to say you're not on the same You're not starting from the same

position as someone who has been accessing it through a broadband. Yeah. Well, um, we've said it a few times on the podcast. You Know. Technology by itself, UM, isn't necessarily the answer. Just just buying a whole bunch of computers and giving them to people that that alone will not solve this problem. Um. You know you they have to be able to the people who have the technology need to be able to to use it to its fullest potential, and they need

to they need to understand what they're doing. UM. If they don't have UH, if they don't have access to the education needed to help them use the technology, UM, then it's it's going to be difficult for them to take advantage of and UM. That's why I think articles like Kings are so useful because they help us identify, um, these problems so that we can take a look at them and tackle them. I think there's probably, I'm inclined to say, there's probably always going to be a digital

divide of some kind. UM. I think with some education on the part of of writers like King and many others, UM, who can bring these um, these issues to our attention. I actually I found a lot quite a lot on George Lucas's Educational Foundation and Utopia there. There are quite a few articles about the digital divide on there if you're interested in reading more about it. UM. And Pew Research Group actually has quite a bit on the digital divide.

You d's gonna call it d d um. Yeah. But the thing is that having people like this bring these issues to our attention will help us learn what is necessary to overcome the digital divide or the DD. My

tongue is not stuck in neutral. Did I don't know what the deal is with you, but but yeah, I mean this is it's necessary to to do this because, um, you're right, Jonathan, I mean as much as as important as uh, this technology is to our to our everyday lives at this point, Um, we can't afford to be held back by part of the population not having access to the technology and not understanding how to use it.

And uh, I think as as the world moves forward in uh in technological terms, Um, it is to everyone's advantage for us to overcome these issues. Yeah. And the way of of solving this problem is yet to be discovered really because there's so many different factors at play. So I want to make that clear. Is that we're not coming out and saying that, you know, regulation is the only answer. Um, there's there's all these different factors. I mean, there are cultural factors here that it doesn't

matter if you regulate in this industry or not. The cultural factors are going to play a large role. So uh yeah, I mean it's not an easy problem to fix and there's no one solution to fix it. It's just but being aware that there is an issue is at least a good first step for a company that

that only allows online applications. Understanding that there is a segment of the population that only uses uh smartphones or are primarily let's say that primarily uses smartphones to use the Internet, they might say, okay, well, let's make our the website with our application on it more smartphone friendly. UM, let's help it detect what what type of technology is able to is accessing this form and make it and

optimize it for that UM for that format. So so if you you know, it says, okay, this person is using a smartphone, use the smartphone version of the application and it will become more simple for them to use and more understandable for the person using it, right while still being a valid you know, a valid the jobless thing. Otherwise,

you know, you just kind of created another problem. But but that would that that's one way of overcoming it that that someone else can take UM that requires absolutely no legislation or regulation on the part of a country's government.

Now that being said, if you feel you the listener, feel that your particular government representatives aren't doing enough in one way or another, whether you feel that regulation is not the right answer and you want to make that clear, or that you think that regulation is something that's important and that you would like to see net neutrality rules applied across the mobile spectrum as it has been the broadband. UM, then definitely get active, you know, write your representatives right

your who whomever represents you in government. You should contact and let your thoughts be known and in a polite and in concise manner, and that that's that can go a very long way too. I mean activism, Like on that level, it sounds like it's you know, like it sounds like, well, what good is a letter going to do?

But if representatives know that this is an actual issue with people and that they feel that this could become a very important issue within a constituency, then they're there prone to act on that or else they get voted out. So anyway, I think that wraps up this discussion. It was a good one. Uh. Interesting and difficult topic really Uh. I hope you guys enjoyed it. If you have any suggestions for us to tackle, UM, well let sminty no and then they will tweet us and then we can

know No. You can get in touch with us on Facebook for Twitter are handled. There is tech stuff hs W and Chris and I will talk to you again really soon. This podcast is brought to you by audible dot Com, the Internet's leading provider of audiobooks, with more than one thousand downloadable titles across all types of literature and featuring audio versions of many New York Times bestsellers.

To try Audible free today and get a pre audiobook of your choice, Get an audible podcast dot com slash text Stuff brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you