TechStuff Classic: Social Media and You

Lauren had done a couple of episodes before this one that you're about to hear. I did not include those because they were particularly early ones. You can go back into the archive at tech stuff podcast dot com and find them. But I found that this one I think was a good starting point for the Lauren era of tech Stuff and hope you guys. And really there's a lot of fear out there, I think in a lot of a lot of news stories that are kind of

amping up that fear. And there's been several studies that that talk with this doom and gloom about like about like, oh, no, social media is so big that we're not going to talk to each other in person anymore. Um, total communication breakdown, Captain Dogg's looking together that that kind of thing. Um, and uh, it's this is not pop stuff, but I like to just yes anyway, Yeah, no, no no, no, we quote documentaries all the time here on tech stuff. It's

perfectly fine. And I agree entirely, Lauren. I mean, from an armchair psychology perspective, if I were to just look at the whole idea of social media and human interaction in general, uh, part of me would think, hey, social media is replacing that face to face human interaction that we tend to think of as being really important as part of our development as a person, right, or that seems to be really important for a very long time. Yeah,

I mean it's it's part of socialization. And the worry is that without that face to face interaction with something else replacing it, we would be less capable of dealing with those interactions when they come up. And a lot of the information about this tends to be anecdotal, which anyone who has done any science knows is not reliable when it comes to actually measuring it's not actually science. Um. There have been a few studies. There's a one one that you will here quoted all the time was from

MD Stanford Institute for the Quantitative Study of Society. UM and uh, this one said, this one is was in two thousand five to be fair, so this was a few years ago and before Twitter and Facebook were really huge. But um, but it found that um, compared to people who do not use the internet frequently, those who do, um uh, spend seventy minutes less per day interacting with their family, twenty five minutes less per day sleeping, and thirty is less watching television. Although I'm not sure why

that's necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, they could go the other way, but but that but that family thing, that's seventy minutes less a day talking to your family, that sounds that sounds awful, right until of course you're interacting with your family online exactly, and that's and that's what we're I think it turns out that that is what we are doing, right right. Yeah. Again, it's one of those things where I think the stereotype, the thing that we all imagine is the person sequestered in his or

her room. Uh, you know, it's dark, Yeah, it's depressing and probably yeah, the only interaction they get is whomever is online is through a keyboard and never a microphone, right, and that's it. And it can be a synchronous communication, meaning that you know, you leave a message, then later on the person reads it and then they leave a message.

This is essentially the way email works. It's a synchronous as opposed to a face to face conversation, which is generally synchronous unless you're talking to me, in which case it is just a monologue. But uh, that's the way I work. But anyway, that's generally speaking, that tends to be The view is that it's a person who is

withdrawing more and more. And it's this this idea that social media could ultimately be dehumanizing us, at least in the sense of how we define what a human is right now, right, And to be fair, isolation is a very scary thing. Um. There's all kinds of studies about about how it can be as bad for you as smoking and obesity, how it increases cancerus tumors in mice. Um.

I mean, it's developmentally, it's a very big problem. I mean, there's there are actual cases of tragic cases of children who are deprived the ability to interact with other people and how that has impacted their ability to develop as a human, like, like, you know, they never really develop beyond a certain what would be equivalent to a certain age,

like a younger age. That there are stories about kids who were in terrible conditions and you know, grow up and never really develop beyond say a seven or eight year old mensial level. Lonely subjects have been found to have less brain activity than than people with a a healthy and diverse social network. Yes, whenever I get lonely, I'm not thinking of anything. It's just me and Supernatural, Natural Marathon. You had it, man, before I could even say it. Yes, it's just me and the next episode

of Supernatural. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Brothers are dreaming. I wouldn't know. I don't want to they are dreaming. I'm like, I believe you know. Okay, cool, So anyway, Yes, these are these are all perceptions. Now, when it comes down to science, there are a lot of different stays that look at this, and there's some conflicting results. And part of that is because the nature

of the studies. Part of it is that, you know, the studies are not necessarily looking at the exact same criteria, right, So it could be that one seems to contradict another, but it maybe that in a broader perspective, they're not really contradictory. It's just they're looking at they're looking at different aspects. Because when people are talking about social isolation, um, they're they're talking about the size, the intimacy, the diversity,

and the location of your social network. Right. Yes, there's lots of different terms for this as well, about whether or not you have a certain number of confidence like people that you really connect with. These are the people with whom you share those deep personal things that are not something you would talk about to just your your neighbor, unless they're your confidence or or someone on the street or your coworker. Necessarily it's it's it's who you go

to when you're upset or when you're happy. It's the first person that, if you're me, you text message when when something terrific happens to you, any text messages. Okay, so awkward, Uh, moving on, I'm dealing with a little heartbreak here, but it's okay. I I don't don't have

to be everyone's best friend. Well, the thing is that people that people really um the average person has has one point eight ish and and that's that's you know, one one point eight close contexts like that, depending upon depending on which survey looking at, because some of these one of the one of the surveys I really looked at, which is one that you you sent me the information to, So I thank you, Lauren, because without it I would have nothing to talk about. But it was a Pew Internet,

Personal Networks and Community survey. Now, before I even get into the data here, I should stress they surveyed two thousand, five twelve adults. Now that's a pretty small sample, and that's not so any results we get you have to keep in mind this is this is a very small sample. But within that sample they drew some pretty big conclusions. One of those was that of American adults said they used the Internet. So wow, didn't but anyway said they

used the Internet. And nearly half of adults, or of those who said they use the Internet, say they use at least on social networking service. So this is stuff like Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, that kind of thing, and this is sort of tangential to our community. Are our our conversation here. But I found it really interesting out of the ones they surveyed of those who used social networking services said they used Facebook. Them on Facebook is one of the ones I use, used my Space, LinkedIn, and

used Twitter. So that means more people are using my Space than Twitter, which to me says the twenty of people who said that are all in the band. I mean, really, when was the last time you use my Space? I deleted my my Space account about a year ago. It's it's coming back because timber Lakes brought sexy and my Spacebook. Those are the two things he brought back. I don't know where he went to find them, but he brought them back. Um. But yeah, I don't use my Space either.

It just blows my mom that more people are using my Space that in the survey anyway, than LinkedIn and Twitter. But um but but but that's I mean, that is indicative of the of the overall usage. I mean, Facebook as of October had um one billion monthly active users. Yeah, that's a huge, huge number. And h and five four million daily active users. That's a whole bunch of people. That's that's that's more people than there are even user

accounts on Twitter. Um. As as of December, Twitter had had more than two million December twelve people with the Far Future are listening to Back in Future? Where's my jet pack? Is it on the way the time machine? Just bring it back to me right? There's no way they can tell me. This is the sad thing, Like you've been using it for three years. Time travel stinks because I only get to go one direction and it's really slow, second by second. As it turns out, hey

there it's job from twenty nineteen here to say. We're going to a quick break to thank our sponsor. The interesting thing about this this survey, I mean we've been kind of talking about the things they found, but one of the things they were specifically looking for was this idea of social isolation and does the use of social media contribute to social isolation? Is it true that we are actually withdrawing from society in favor of the interactions

that we have on social networking services? And according to the service spoiler alert, no, no it's not having Yeah, they said that according to the surveying that social isolation has not really changed since which this is just for people who aren't paying really close attention. Not really a big year for the internet. Um, if you were using the Internet, you were in a research facility or a university. Uh,

you are not the average person. Because, of course, the Worldwide Web the main way we tend to think about interacting with the Internet, apart from apps and stuff. That's starting to really take control. But wed Web it wasn't a thing until ninety two, so obviously is before social networking services are a thing. Like three people on Prodigy as of eight and that's not it. So if you're on a bulletin board system, maybe, but it's before social

networking services obviously. Uh. But these the extent of social isolation hasn't really changed the sense. So that tells us that it's very possible social networking services don't have a big impact. Now we can't say that for sure because there are a lot of different facts. Yeah, it could be that we are reducing social isolation at an exponential rate, but the social networking services are pulling that back. So it could be that there is an impact on social isolation.

It's just that other factors are pushing it forward, so it ends up balanced. Yeah. This is the complex thing about science. This is why drawing conclusions is difficult. You have to do a lot of studies and really look at all the different factors and try and control for as many variables as possible, because otherwise whatever you say could turn out to be not so true in the grand scheme of things. But based upon what this survey found, it looks like social networking services are not turning us

all into hermits. This isn't from the same Pew Internet study. I think it's from a different one. I didn't write down which study it's from in my notes, but um, it's been found that mobile phone use has actually made our contact lists smaller but more intense. That makes sense. So for instance, you know, it's not that it's not

that the relationships are less meaningful. It just means that the ones that we contact were really depending upon them, and that we might be using a phone in order to make that connection as opposed to necessary you know, walking across the street or or driving to a friend's hell, are meeting up at a coffee shop or whatever. To me, you know, that just means that we're transferring that same need for interaction to a different medium. It doesn't mean

that we're losing that interaction. It just means that it's a you know, we're taking advantage of technology in ways that we couldn't before, which is awesome because I mean, I'm sure you've known people who have moved away. You you yourself have moved a few times. Absolutely. I I play Halo every Wednesday night so that I get to

hang out with my friends who don't live here anymore. Right, So this is technology giving us those social interactions that otherwise we might lose if if we were to relocate or our friends relocate. And in my view, that's a huge positive. It means that those those those relationships that have been formed over years sometimes decades of uh knowing one another don't fade away. They still remain relevant because

technology allows us to continue to build those relationships. Now, those interactions, the nature of them might change it, but it's still a very important part of who we are and how we interact. And for some people, UM, you know there there are mentally and physically disabled people, the elderly, um, new new mothers who can't get out of the house, um, all kinds of people who they've been doing medical studies with to see if use of the internet can actually

give them better social interaction. Sure it's it's it's been found to reduce depression in lots of those groups, UM and and has really helped people out. So yeah, I've even seen that there have been studies done with people who have various mental health conditions who otherwise would find it very difficult to socialize. They they either not just awkward like me and Jonathan. Right, No, no, no, the people who really find it difficult to form any kind

of social contact. It's just one of those things that it's a block for them and it can be very frustrating, especially if they observe that other people are capable of doing this. And there are so many factors involved here. There's a there's an entire taboo about mental health in our culture that is that's problematic and so awful. Yeah, and it feeds on itself, right, it defends this thing where it just mounts on the person who's experiencing this.

And some of the studies had people using social networks and and they were finding it much easier to interact with people and making suggestions on how to create a social network with tools that would allow them to have a greater interaction. Which, yeah, you think about that, like, this is this is what technology should do. Technology should help people so that they can interact any way they want.

In the you know in a way that brings them the satisfaction that people can have, you know, people who don't have these conditions tend to find naturally. Um, I like this to me, it's to me, it's a great thing. And anything that decreases that sense of isolation and that since that taboo is a good thing to and it's it's an added dimension. It doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be replacement. It can be and things change, I mean, I mean Socrates was terrified that writing was

going to ruin people's brains. Oh, I want to talk about this, but we're gonna get into that all right. Now, hang on one second. Now, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor, and now back to the show. So you were talking about Socrates and writing, right, the idea that writing things down means that you're taking stuff out of your brain and putting it on paper or

stone or clay or whatever. Right a tree, your buddy Bill, who stands still for really long periods of time, whatever, you're taking it out of your brain, you're putting it on something else, and therefore you are no longer relying on your brain to process that information because you've offloaded it soccers. You thought this was a terrible idea. The interesting thing is that attitude has continued up to present day, which is, you know, I assume why you brought it up,

because today we have computers and and uh smartphones and calculators. Calculators. Yeah, I could not do complex equations anymore without the use of a calculator because frankly, I just don't use those skills as frequently as I as I used to. Well, you're a writer, you're not a mathematician. I'm not a good one either, um, and then mathematician that is, I'm an excellent writer. You should read some of my articles that how stufforce dot com. You know what I'm talking about.

So anyway, yeah, yeah, I know. That's the exactly I mean the Nicholas Carr wrote the famous article for The Atlantic is Google making us stupid? This whole idea that because we've got so much information on the internet and we have access to information, and therefore we're less intelligent, right right, we don't. We don't have to remember stuff, we don't have to know stuff. We just because I'm d knows it, right, Yeah, yeah, why do we Why

do I need to even process this information. All I have to do is type in search query and Google pull up the first answer, and then and then repeat it back. It doesn't even mean that I even process it on a level where I understand it social media or social networking services. Some people were worried a similar thing is going on with the social aspect. As we're talking with the memory and processing of information on the Internet. This idea that social networking services are creating a less

meaningful way of connecting with people. But things like this Pew research survey suggest otherwise. It's suggests that we're getting just as much meaningful interaction online and through technology as we would face to face. Now, the the actual nature of that interaction may change somewhat somewhat, but it's still important and it's still helpful. Yeah, and and that's I mean, you know that kind of fear of technology. To be fair, we hear tech stuff are probably biased towards technology and

just maybe maybe a little bit. Please listen to all our episodes on your computers contacts at Discovery dot com. But um, but but no, I mean, I mean, fear of fear of technology isn't going to change the fact that technology is out there, and it's not going to

change the fact that things are changing. Change happens, society changes, everything changes, you know, and and fe people were also worried, um, in the Industrial Revolution that because um, because these these machines were starting to automate human processes, that that the the equality of workspace interaction was going to go down, and and all kinds of other ripple effects out from that.

And sure, that's where we get the whole sabotage thing, because people, you know, the whole idea throwing the wooden shoe into the automated loom to destroy it. So are old old listeners to not not old listeners, but people listen to old episodes of tech stuff. I know that We've talked about that many many times, and and it's not it's you know, the answer is, yes, things are changing,

but no, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, in fact that that Again, going back to that Pew survey, one of the other things I thought was really interesting was that they found that people who use the web a lot. Again, another one of those those uh perceptions is that these are people who don't get out as much. They don't you know, they don't interact in other ways other than online, but that doesn't seem to be the

case according to the people that they surveyed. According to the survey, the folks who used the web were actually more likely to interact with people in their immediate physical environment. They were more likely to do things like speak to a neighbor on a on a regular basis or uh yes, it's six of respondent said that they talked to a

neighbor at least once per month. And they found that bloggers are seventy two percent more likely to belong to a local voluntary association than those who do not blog. So there you've got people who are very much invested in the online world, but not at the expense of a physical one, so directly contradicting that armchair psychology approach, which is why we always say, like, yeah, there's that whole idea of common sense dictates, which often means I

am wrong, but it seems like I'm right. I do this all the time. I'm like, well, common sense talking out of my butt because I don't have any data in front of me. But yeah, they also found out they said web users are more likely to visit a cafe. I did not say if it was an internet cafe, which obviously would increase the odds, but fifty two percent

more likely to visit a library. Didn't say if that was because that's how they access the internet, But hey, thirty four percent more likely to visit a fast food restaurant that I don't necessarily think it's a good thing. You know what, I haven't visit a fast food restaurant in a very long time. I'm not a fast food fan. More likely to visit other restaurants now I'm in that category. We might like food and oh gosh, I love food, And then more likely to visit a public park, which

is awesome. That is awesome. So we're talking about people who have a real investment in their community and an interest in the world outside the realm of the computer. So that does contradict are they aren't going outside, they're just taking pictures to upload when they get home. Right, Oh, that reminds me of something I wanted to talk about that wasn't on our on the notes, but it was.

It's this idea. It's something that's interesting. So one of the one of the conflicts that people have with whole social networking services and everything is that it It is constantly interrupting our daily lives if we are connected in various ways, so that uh verver ties where it's inappropriate for you to stop what you're doing and respond to someone on Facebook or Twitter, like like you're at work, or you are in a conversation with someone, or you're

up on stage developing a keynote address to a bunch of people. I'm sorry, but but I was gonna say like driving, but those are so uh anyway, have you ever been to uh dinner with someone or a meal with someone when the very first thing that happens is smartphone hits the table? Yes, that drives me so crazy. Are you ever that person? Or do you leave your smartphone away? Okay, to be fair, I'm very occasionally that person, but usually it's revenge smartphone use. Usually it's it's after

someone else has brought out their smartphone. I I I have on occasion gotten a little b huffy and I'll fine, I'm gonna I'm gonna check Facebook too. Well, Lauren, I hate to break this to you, but you're gonna get way worse because now you're a tech stuff co host and uh, let me put it this way, when I hang out with other technology podcasts hosts and we all go out to eat, the table creaks under the weight of the electronics that hit it. First thing, I am

not kidding. I remember meals with people like and I'm gonna be dropping some names here, folks, because my back hurt, get ready, so I gotta drop some weight. Get Ready. But people like Sarah Lane, i Azactar and tom Merritt uh this Week in Tech or or Molly Wood of c net or um oh, justin Robert Young and Brian

Brushwood and and and Veronica Belmont. We've all I've been to dinner with these folks in various settings, and invariably, the first thing that happens is everyone's smartphone hits the table, and anytime you're not looking at a menu or talking, you're way And I include myself, I am not immune to this. This is something I've done too, and some people are better about it than others. But it is one of those things that can be kind of distracting.

And I will admit this is one of those behaviors that is socially It's becoming more and more socially acceptable in the sense that everyone's doing it but it's I still am a little bit eaked out by it. Yeah, it can be. It can be insulting if you're talking to someone and you just see them looking because you know.

But the reason why I brought it up, Oh, there's a restaurant in Los Angeles called EVA Restaurant E v A. And I'm sure it's not the only restaurant that does this, but EVA Restaurant has a policy which is if you come inside the restaurant and you surrender your cell phone to the waiter when you come in, you get a five percent discount on your bill. That's a delightful. So

you come in. The waiter explains the policy, especially in l A. Yeah, you have the choice of yeah, especially yeah, no kidding all those actors waiting for the breakout call or those agents waiting for their actors to call them. But yeah, it means that you you just you hand it over and then you concentrate on the food and

the experience. And you know, the restaurant's policy is that this way, you're really focusing on the meal and you're enjoying it for what it is, as opposed to distracting yourself and the meal is just something you're doing in between tweets. It also means Instagram hates it because there's so few, so many fewer pick there's a food flooding the Internet, which which we are in dire lacking of so food and cats. People need more food and cats

on the internet. Staff. I'm I'm I'm starting my my me and my tumbler followers are starting a drive for more acute hedgehogs on the Internet. I think that this is a thing that needs to happen. Had a good run, it did well. That bucket, that bucket, it was a bucket list. Oh no, oh dear, that one. That one that was such a stretch. That wasn't that joke? Cut wasn't that that was just not sure? It was just words, That's what that was. But but but but no, but

I mean it is, it is. It can divide our attention, and I do. I've seen a couple of news reports lately that that had this announcer being shocked shocked. Did you know that when young people wake up they check their cell phone before getting out of bed. Then I'm like, I'm like, people don't do that. First of all, my

cell phone is my alarm. Of course, my mind too. Yeah, because of that by turning off my alarm, I am checking my cell phone right, And I don't get out of bed to throw off my alarm because that's just ridiculous. That would be that would help me wake up. Probably I should do that, but no, I do not. I'm a morning person anyway, So as soon as as soon as those eyes pop up and I'm ready to go, I'm not happy about it. I'm not sure full morning person.

I'll still be grouchy at you. I just I'm just alert, that's all. But but yeah, but but but that that in the kind of behavior where you see more people at a concert, for example, um, taking photos at the concert than you do watching the concert. Yeah. Yeah, And that's the thing, And that's you know, Yeah, I get grouchy at concerts too. That's why every concert needs to be a private show of just me and the and the musician. When one of those get off my lawn

kind of moments. Yeah, there's only a couple of musicians I know who would be willing to do that, oh, to to actually do like, okay, it's just me and you, I'll play my songs for you, someone that we know together. Because she's nice. Yes, and it would be you know, she she'd essentially be doing a favor for me. Yes, So I like hear anything. But yeah, no, I think

it's a good discussion. I mean it's I think ultimately the takeaway we have to have is that we do not have a full spectrum of data to really support this one way or the other. But it looks like it's not as damaging as we would first think perhaps, and it may in fact be helpful. Uh, since it's kind of a social science thing, it's what we call one of the soft sciences, and whenever you get people involved, it really messes with the variables. So because we're not

all the same as it turns out crazy. Yeah, funky about that, right. So ultimately it may we may not be able to come down and say definitively whether it's good or bad. It just it looks like it's not. Yeah, And that wraps up another classic episode of tech Stuff.

Thank you so much for listening. Hope you enjoyed this and the debut and the classics of Lauren Vogelbaum, who was my co host for for a little while, quite some time actually, And so we're gonna be hearing a lot more from her over the next few classic episodes. If you guys have suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff, feel free to get in touch with me. You can email tech Stuff at how stuff works dot com or drop a line on Facebook or Twitter. The handle of

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