Social Media and You

I'm aging? I might have share too much information just now there there is there's Jonathan's partially joking, but but there's a lot of I really do yell at people. But other than that, Yes, there's a lot of fear out there. I think in a lot of a lot of news stories that are kind of amping up that fear. And there's been several studies that that talk with this doom and gloom about like about like, oh, no, social media is so big that we're not going to talk

to each other in person anymore. Um, total communication breakdown. Captain Donn's looking together that that kind of thing. Um, and uh, it's this is not pop stuff. But I like to just yes anyway, yeah, no, no, no, we quote documentaries all the time here on tech stuff. It's

perfectly fine, and I agree entirely, Lauren. I mean from an armchair psychology perspective, if I were to just look at the whole idea of social media and human interaction in general, uh, part of me would think, hey, social media is replacing that face to face human interaction that we tend to think of as being really important as part of our development as a person, right, or that seems to be really important for a very long time. Yeah,

I mean it's it's part of socialization. And the worry is that without that face to face interaction with something else replacing it, we would be less capable of dealing with those interactions when they come up. And a lot of the the information about this tends to be anecdotal, which anyone who has done any science knows is not reliable when it comes to actually measuring it's not actually science. Um.

There have been a few studies. There's a one one that you will hear quoted all the time was from the Stanford Institute for the Quantitative Study of Society. UM. And uh this one said, this one is was in two thousand five, to be fair, so This was a few years ago, before Twitter and Facebook were really huge.

But um, but it found that um, compared to people who do not use the internet frequently, those who do, um uh, spend seventy minutes less per day interacting with their family, twenty five minutes less per day sleeping, and thirty is less watching television. Although I'm not sure why

that's necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, that could o but but but that but that family thing, that's seventy minutes less a day talking to your family, that sounds that sounds awful until of course you're interacting with your family online exactly. And that's and that's what we're I think it turns out that that is what we are doing right right. Yeah. Again, it's one of those things where I think the stereotype, the thing that we all imagine is the person sequestered in his or her room. Uh

you know, it's dark. Its yeah, it's depressing, and yeah, the only interaction they get is never whomever is online. Is there a keyboard and never a microphone? Right, And that's it. And it could be a synchronous communication, meaning that you know, you leave a message, then later on the person reads it and then they leave a message.

This is essentially the way email works. It's a synchronous as opposed to a face to face conversation, which is generally synchronous unless you're talking to me, in which case it is just a monologue. But uh, that's the way I work. But anyway, that's generally speaking, that tends to be the view is that it's a person who is

withdrawing more and more. And it's this this idea that social media could ultimately be dehumanizing us, at least in the sense of how we define what a human is right now right, And to be fair, isolation is a very scary thing. Um. There's all kinds of studies about about how it can be as bad for you as smoking an obesity, how it increases cancers, tumors in mice. Um,

I mean it's developmentally, it's a very big problem. I mean, there's there are actual cases of tragic cases of children who are deprived the ability to interact with other people and how that has impacted their ability to develop as a human, like like you know, they never really develop beyond a certain what would be equivalent to a certain age,

like a younger age. That there are stories about kids who were in terrible conditions and you know, grow up and never really develop beyond say a seven or eight year old mission level. Lonely subjects have been found to have less brain activity than than people with a a healthy and diverse social network. Yes, whenever I get lonely, I'm not thinking of anything. It's just me and Supernatural, Natural Marathon. You had it, man, before I could even say it. Yes, it's just me and the next episode

of Supernatural. Not that there's anything wrong with that. These brothers are dreaming. I wouldn't know. I don't want to show they are. I'm like, I believe you know. Okay, cool, So anyway, yes, that these are these are all perceptions. Now, when it comes down to science, there are a lot of different stays that look at this, and there's some conflicting results. And part of that is because the nature

of the studies. Part of it is that you know, the studies are not necessarily looking at the exact same criteria, right, So it could be that one seems to contradict another, but it maybe then a broader perspective, they're not really contradictory. It's just that they're looking at they're looking at different aspects because when people are talking about social isolation, um, they're they're talking about the size, the intimacy, the diversity,

and the location of your social network. Right. Yes, there's lots of different terms for this as well, about whether or not you have a certain number of confidence like people that you you really connect with. These are the people with whom you share those deep personal things that are not something you would talk about to just you your neighbor, unless they're your confident or or someone on

the street or your coworker. Necessarily it's it's it's who you go to when you're upset or when you're happy. It's the first person that, if you're me, you text message when when something terrific happens to you haven't received text messages. Okay, so awkward, Uh, moving on, I'm dealing with a little heartbreak here. But it's okay, I I

don't I don't have to be everyone's best friend. Well, well, the thing is that people that people really um, the average person has has one point eight ish and then that's that's you know, one point eight close contexts like that, depending upon depending on which survey, Because some of these one of the one of the surveys I really looked at, which is one that you you sent me the information to, So I thank you, Lauren, because without it I would have nothing to talk about. But it was a Pew

Internet Personal Networks and Community survey. Now, before I even get into the data here, I should stress they surveyed two thousand, five twelve adults. Now that's a pretty small sample size, so any results we get you have to keep in mind this is this is a very small sample. But within that sample they drew some pretty big conclusions. One of those was that of American adults said they used the Internet, So wow, didn't but anyway said they

used the Internet. And nearly half of adults, or of those who said they use the Internet, say they use at least one social networking service. So this is stuff like Facebook, Twitter, linked in, that kind of thing, and uh,

this is sort of tangential to our community. Are our our conversation here, But I found it really interesting out of the ones they surveyed, of the those who used social networking services said they used Facebook, so them like Facebook is one of the ones I use, used my Space, LinkedIn and used Twitter, so that means more people are using my Space than Twitter, which to me says the of people who said that are all in the band. I mean, really, when was the last time use my space?

I I deleted my my Space account about a year ago. Now, I granted it's it's coming back because brought sexy and my Spacebook. Those are the two things he brought back. I don't know where he went to find them, but he brought them back. Um. But yeah, I don't use my Space either. It just blows my mind that more people are using my Space that in the survey anyway than LinkedIn and Twitter. But um but but but that's I mean, that is indicative of the of the overall usage.

I mean, Facebook as of October had um one billion monthly active users. Yeah, that's a huge, huge number and four million daily active users. That's a whole bunch of people. That's that's that's more people than there are even user accounts on Twitter. Um as as of December, Twitter had had more than December people when the far future are listening to back in the future, where's my jet pack? Is it on the way the time machine to bring it back to me? Right? There's no way they can

tell me. This is the sad thing like you've been using it for three years. Time travel stinks, um because I only get to go one direction and it's really slow, second by second as it turns out. Anyway, the interesting thing about this this survey, I mean, we've been kind of talking about the things they found, but one of the things they were specifically looking for was this idea of social isolation and does the use of social media

contribute to social isolation? Is it true that we are actually withdrawing from so I D in favor of the interactions that we have on social networking services? And according to the service spoiler alert, no, no it's not. Yeah, they said that, according to the surveying that social isolation has not really changed since which this is just for people who aren't paying really close attention. Not really a

big year for the internet. Um five, If you were using the Internet, you were in a research facility or a university. Uh, you were not the average person. Because, of course, the Worldwide Web the main way we tend to think about interacting with the Internet, apart from apps and stuff. That's starting to really take control but soon wed web wasn't a thing until two so obviously is before social networking services are a thing like three people on Prodigy as of eight and that was just it.

So if you're on a bulletin board system, maybe, but it's before social networking servi This is obviously uh, but these the extent of social isolation hasn't really changed the sense. So that tells us that it's very possible social networking services don't have a big impact. Now we can't say that for sure because there are a lot of different facts. Yeah, it could be that we are reducing social isolation at an exponential rate, but the social networking services are pulling

that back. So it could be that there is an impact on social isolation. It's just that other factors are pushing it forward, so it ends up balancing. Yeah, this is the complex thing about science. This is why drawing conclusions is difficult. You have to do a lot of studies and really look at all the different factors and try and control for as many variables as possible because otherwise whatever you say could turn out to be not

so true in the grand scheme of things. But based upon what this survey found, it looks like social networking services are not turning us all into hermits. This isn't from the same Pew Internet study. I think it's from a different one. I didn't write down which study it's from in my notes, but um, it's been found that mobile phone use has actually made our contact lists smaller

but more intense. That makes sense. So, for instance, you know, it's not that it's not that the relationships are less meaningful. It just means that the ones that we contact, we're really depending upon them, and that we might be using a phone in order to make that connection as opposed to necessary you know, walking across the street or or driving to a friend's house or meeting up at a

coffee shop or whatever. To me, you know, that just means that we're transferring that same need for interaction to a different medium. It doesn't mean that we're losing that interaction. It just means that it's a you know, we're taking advantage of technology in ways that we couldn't before, which is awesome because I mean, I'm sure you've known people who have moved away. You you yourself have moved a

few times. Absolutely. I I play Halo every Wednesday nights that I get to hang out with my friends who don't live here anymore. Right, So this is technology giving us those social interactions that otherwise we might lose if if we were to relocate or our friends relocate. And in my view, that's a huge positive. It means that those those those relationships that have been formed over years sometimes decades of uh knowing one another don't fade away.

They still remain relevant because technology allows us to continue to build those relationships. Now, those interactions, the nature of them might change event but it's still a very important

part of who we are and how we interact. And for some people, um, you know, there there are mentally and physically disabled people, the elderly, um, new new mothers who can't get out of the house, um, all kinds of people who they've been doing medical studies with to see if use of the internet can actually give them better social interaction. Sure, it's it's it's been found to reduce depression and to those groups, um and and has

really helped people out. So yeah, I've even seen that there have been studies done with people who have various mental health conditions who otherwise would find it very difficult to socialize. They they either not just awkward like me and Jonathan, right, No, no, no, people who really find it difficult to form any kind of social contact. It's just one of those things that it's a block for them, and uh, it can be very frustrating, especially if they

observe that other people are capable of doing this. And there are so many factors involved here. There's a there's an entire taboo about mental health in our culture that is that's problematic and so awful. Yeah, and it feeds on itself, right, it betimes this thing where it just

mounts on the person who's experiencing this. And some of the studies had people using social networks and and they were finding it much easier to interact with people and making suggestions on how to create a social network with two rules that would allow them to have greater interaction. Which, yeah, you think about that, like this is this is what

technology should do. Technology should help people so that they can interact any way they want in though, you know, in a way that brings them the satisfaction that people can have, you know, people who don't have these conditions tend to find naturally. Um, I like this to me, it's to me, it's a great thing. And anything that decreases that sense of isolation and that sense that taboo is a good thing to and it's it's an added dimension. It doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be replacement.

It can be. And things change. I mean, I mean, Socrates was terrified that writing was going to ruin people's brains. Oh, I want to talk about this, but we're gonna get into that all right. Now, hang on one second. Now, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor, and now back to the show. So you were talking about Socrates, and right right, the idea that writing things down means that you're taking stuff out of your brain and putting

it on paper or stone or clay or whatever. Right a tree, your buddy Bill who stands still for really long periods of time, whatever, you're taking it out of your brain, you're putting it on something else. And therefore you are no longer relying on your brain to process that information because you've offloaded it. Socrates thought this was

a terrible idea. The interesting thing is that attitude has continued up to present day, which is, you know, I assume why you brought it up, because today we have computers and and uh smartphones and calculators. Calculators. Yeah, I could not do complex equations anymore without the use of a calculator, because frankly, I just don't use those skills as frequently as I as I used to. Well, you're

a writer, you're not a mathematician. I'm not a good one either, um, and then mathematician that is, I'm an excellent writer. You should read some of my articles at houstufforce dot com. You know what I'm talking about. So anyway, yeah, yeah, I know, that's the exactly I mean. Nicholas Carr wrote the famous article for The Atlantic. Is Google making a stupid this whole idea that because we've got so much information on the Internet, that we have access to information

and therefore we're less intelligent? Right right? We don't. We don't have to remember stuff, we don't have to know stuff. We just because I'm DD knows it, right, Yeah, yeah, why do we? Why do I need to even process this information? All I have to do is type in search query and Google pull up the first answer and then and then repeat it back. It doesn't even mean that I even process it on a level where I

understand it. Social media or social networking services, some people were worried a similar thing is going on with the social aspect. As we're talking with the memory and processing of information on the internet. This idea that social networking services are creating a less meaningful way of connecting with people, But things like this Pew research survey suggest otherwise. It's suggests that we're getting just as much meaningful interaction online

and through technology as we would face to face. The actual nature of that interaction may change somewhat somewhat, but it's still important and it's still helpful. Yeah, and and that's I mean, you know that that kind of fear of technology. To be fair, we hear tech stuff are probably biased towards technology and just maybe maybe a little bit please listen to all our episodes on your computer

ours contact at Discovery dot com. But um, but but no, I mean, I mean fear of fear of technology isn't going to change the fact that technology is out there, and it's not going to change the fact that things are changing. Change happen, society changes, everything changes, you know.

And people were also worried, um in the Industrial Revolution that because um, because these these machines we were starting to automate human processes, that that the the equality of workspace interaction was going to go down right, and and all kinds of other ripple effects out from that. And for sure that's where we get the whole sabotage thing, because people, you know, the whole idea, the sabo throwing the wooden shoe into the automated loom to destroy it.

So any are old old listeners to not not old listeners, but people have listened to old episodes of tech stuff. Know that. We've talked about that many many times. And and it's not it's you know, the answer is, yes, things are changing, but no, that's not necessarily bad thing. Yeah. In fact that that Again, going back to that Pew survey, one of the other things I thought was really interesting

was that they found that people who used web a lot. Again, another one of those those uh perceptions is that these are people who don't get out as much. They don't you know, they don't interact in other ways other than online. But that doesn't seem to be the case according to the people that they surveyed. According to the survey, the folks who used the web were actually more likely to

interact with people in their immediate physical environment. They were more like need to do things like speak to a neighbor on a on a regular basis or uh yes, it's respondent said that they talked to a neighbor at least once per month, and they found that bloggers are seventy two percent more likely to belong to a local

voluntary association than those who do not blog. So there you've got people who are very much invested in the online world, but not at the expense of the physical one, so directly contradicting that armchair psychology approach, which is why we always say, like, yeah, there's that whole idea of common sense dictates, which often means I am wrong, but it seems like I'm right. I do this all the time. I'm like, well, common sense talking up of my butt because I don't have any data in front of me.

But yeah, they also found out they said web users are more likely to visit a cafe. I did not say if it was an Internet cafe, which obviously would increase the odds, but fifty two that more likely to visit a library. Didn't say if that was because of how they access the Internet, but hey, thirty four percent more likely to visit a fast food restaurant that I don't necessarily think it's a good thing. You know what, I haven't visit a fast food restaurant in a very

long time, for I'm not a fast food fan. More likely to visit other restaurants now I'm in that category we might like food and oh gosh, I love food, and then more likely to visit a public park, which is awesome. That is awesome. So we're talking about people who have a real investment in their community and an interest in the world outside the realm of the computer. So that does contradict They aren't going outside, They're just

taking pictures to upload when they get home. Right. Oh, that reminds me of something I wanted to talk about that wasn't on our on the notes, but it was.

It's this idea. It's something that's interesting. So one of the one of the conflicts that people have with whole social networking services and everything is that it it is constantly interrupting our daily lives if we are connected in various ways, so that, uh, there are times where it's inappropriate for you to stop what you're doing and respond to someone on Facebook or Twitter, like like you're at work, or you are in a conversation with someone, or you're

up on stage developing a keynote address to a bunch of people. But I was gonna say, like driving, but so, uh anyway, have you ever been to uh dinner with someone or a meal with someone when the very first thing that happens is smartphone hits the table? Yes, that drives me so crazy. Are you ever that person? Or do you leave your smartphone away? Okay, to be fair, I'm very occasionally that person, but usually it's revenge smartphone use.

Usually it's it's after someone else has brought out their smartphone. I I I have on occasion gotten a little bit huffy and well, fine, I'm gonna I'm gonna check Facebook too. Well, Lauren, I hate to break this to you, but you're gonna get way worse because now you're a tech stuff co host. And uh, let me put it this way. When I hang out with other technology podcasts hosts and we all go out to eat, the table creaks under the weight of the electronics that hit it first thing, I am

not kidding. I remember meals with people like and I'm gonna be dropping some names here, folks, because my back hurts. Get ready, so I gotta drop some weight. Get ready. But people like Sarah Lane I as actor, and tom Merritt uh This Weekend tech or or Molly Wood of c NET or um oh, Justin Robert Young and Brian

Brushwood and and and Veronica Belmont. We've all I've been to dinner with these folks in various settings, and invariably, the first thing that happens is everyone's smartphone hits the table and anytime you're not looking at a menu or talking, you're and I include myself, I am not immune to this. This is something I've done too, and some people are better about than others. But it is one of those

things that can be kind of distracting. And I will admit this is one of those behaviors that is socially It's becoming more and more socially acceptable in the sense that everyone's doing it, but but I still I am a little bit eked out by it. Yeah, it can be. It can be insulting if you're talking to someone and you just see them looking because you know. But the reason why I brought it up, there's a restaurant in Los Angeles called Eva Restaurant E v A. And I'm

sure it's not the only restaurant that does this. But Eva restaurant has a policy which is if you come inside the restaurant and you surrender your cell phone to the waiter when you come in, you get a five percent discount on your bill. That's a delightful. So you come in. The waiter explains the policy, especially in l A. Yeah, you have the choice of yeah, especially yeah, no kidding all those actors waiting for the breakout call or those

agents waiting for their actors to call them. But yeah, it means that you you just you hand it over and then you concentrate on the food and the experience. And you know, the restaurant's policy is that this way, you're really focusing on the meal and you're enjoying it for what it is, as opposed to distracting yourself and the meal is just something you're doing in between tweets. Right.

It also means Instagram hates it because there's so few, so many fewer pictures of food flooding the Internet, which which we are in in dire lacking of food and cats. People, We need more food and cats on the Internet. Staff I'm i'm, I'm starting my my me and my Tumbler followers are starting a drive for more acute hedgehogs on the internet. I think that this is a thing that needs to happen. Had a good run, it did well. That bucket, that bucket, it was a bucket list. Oh no, oh,

dear that one. That one that was such a stretch. That wasn't that joke? Wasn't that that was not sure? It was just words, That's what that was. But but but but no, but I mean, it is, it is. It can divide our attention, and I do um. I've seen a couple of news reports lately that that had this announcer being shocked shocked. Did you know that when young people wake up, they check their cell phone before getting out of bed, And I'm like, I'm like, people

don't do that. First of all, my cell phone is my alarm. Of course my mind too, Yeah, because that means by turning off my alarm, I am checking my cell phone, right, And I don't get out of bed to throw off my alarm because that's just ridiculous. That would be that would help me wake up. Probably I should do that, but no, I do not. I'm a morning person anyway, So as soon as as soon as those eyes pop up and I'm ready to go. I'm not happy about it. I'm not a sureful morning person.

I'll still be grouchy at you. I just I'm just alert, that's all. But but yeah, but but but that that in the kind of behavior where you see more people at a concert, for example, um, taking photos of the concert than you do watching the concert. Yeah. Yeah, And that's the thing, And that's you know, yeah, I get grouchy at concerts too. That It's that's why I reconcert needs to be a private show of just me and the and the musician when one of those get off

my lawn kind of moments. Yeah, there's only a couple of musicians I know who would be willing to do that, oh, to to actually do like, okay, it's just me and you, I'll play my songs for you. Someone that we know together. But that's because she's nice and it would be you know she she'd essentially be doing a favor for me, So I like hear anything. But yeah, no, I think

it's a good discussion. I mean it's I think ultimately the takeaway we have to have is that we do not have a full spectrum of data to really support this one way or the other. But it looks like it's not as damaging as we would first think perhaps, and it may in fact be helpful. Uh, since it's kind of a social science thing, it's what we call one of the soft sciences, and whenever you get people involved, it really messes with the variables. So because we're not

all the same as it turns out crazy. Yeah, funky about that, right, So ultimately it may we may not be able to come down and say definitively whether it's good or bad. It just it looks like it's not. Yeah, yeah, And and that's a good thing for me. I actually really depend on my social network networks to stay in touch with my friends because my schedule is so busy I don't get to spend as much time with them

in meat space as I would like. So yeah, it's I think of it as a good thing, and I'm glad that it looks like it's not going to bring the world to its knees. So yeah, do you have anything else to say before we sign off? And that's about all I got. All right, Well, guys, if you have any suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff, well here's what I would like you to do. Go and write us a little email. Our address is tech stuff

at Discovery dot com. Or contact us on Facebook or Twitter unless you are completely freaked out about social networking sides at this point. But if you're not our handle, there is tech Stuff hs W and Lauren and I will talk to you again really soon for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com