Behind the Scenes at HowStuffWorks - Video

It's it's wonderful to have you on that microphone. We have done a couple of episodes of tech Stuff together where you mostly asked me questions, and that was purposefully done. I think it was a C E S episode or forty three something like that. It was what, yeah, what you did? And I just got to sit there and listen to the stories. Yeah. And this time it's gonna the shoe is on the other flip, my friend. I'm going to be asking you questions. You're going to be

telling stories. So for those who do not know, Mr Frederick has done many things here and how stuff works. Uh. In fact, you have produced episodes of tech Stuff in the past. I have you have sometimes been the one saying they're listening as Chris Polette and I would chat on and on about something. Yes, prior to super producer Noel being here. I was generally the person behind what he does. It was sometimes sometimes Matt, sometimes it was Tyler.

Once in a while it was somebody else. Uh. And you guys were great, but then you've got more and more work to do in your in the other job you had. Yes, the actual reason that we were hired, so Matt, for people who do not know, you were not, Like, I was not hired to be a podcaster or a video guy. I was hired to be a writer. You were not hired to be a podcaster. What were you hired to do? I was hired to be an intern. Okay, that's not really hired. Were paid? Yes, we were paid

interns and our videographer had to leave. So I came on a originally um as an employee of How Stuff Works, officially getting paid through I guess the standard payment from How Stuff Works Inc. Back in the day or whatever it was, as a videographer. So you are a videographer? Uh? And be your role has evolved over time? Yes? So what tell people what it is you do today? Like, what is your your main responsibility here at How Stuff Works?

My main responsibility here is to produce stuff they don't want you to know, and that I think that is my primary goal now when you're when we're talking about stuff they don't want you to know. We're not just talking about the audio podcast, but also the video series, right, Yes, the video series in fact, and I would say probably primarily because originally it was a video series. Uh, just it was just a video series. So this responsibility involves

working very close Slee with your co host Ben Bolan. Oh, very closely. Yeah, to the point where the two of you can be inseparable for the portions where you're getting ready to shoot. Uh. You are very often the guy behind the camera during the actual shooting. Yes, mostly, I would say. Yeah. So sometimes if you ever watched stuff they don't want you to know, and you see that they're in some sort of creepy location, usually it's Matt who's doing a double duty at that time, actually triple duty.

You're shooting, you're monitoring audio, and you're keeping an eye out in case you need to make a run for it because you're gorilla movie making at the time. Yes, usually I'm monitoring audio, making sure the shot is correct, and then kind of keeping watch. Yeah, that's a good assessment. Yeah, No, I've been. I've been the subject of gerrilla filmmaking where the director made it known to me that there was not necessarily clearance to shoot where we were shooting at

that time. Wait what We do our best to keep it above board. Yeah, yeah, I mean occasionally it's just one of those things where you're like, well, let's go ahead and shoot here. I think it'll be fine, and then ultimately we might be told hey, you guys shouldn't be in here, and then we're like, okay, we won't

be in here. Yeah, you're doing you are. I know this looks like just a big empty basement, but technically there's a lot of stuff going on that we can't have you here while we're doing it, like like wiring part of the building. Because keep in mind, the building we are in right now, Pont City Market that's where our office is is UH is still largely unoccupied on

certain floors. So um, that leads the potential for awesome location shoots, but obviously we have to clear everything with the building first to make sure that everyone is safe and we're not going to get in the way of any construction crews. Yes, insurance in a building like this is a big deal. Yeah. Yeah, and uh and obviously the safety of other people also very important. So it's not just our safety but the safety of other folks. So we take it very seriously as much as I'm

being flippant earlier. Uh. Now, when you're talking about produce a show like stuff they don't want you to know, some of our shows here at how Stuff works are fairly straightforward, right, Okay, I'll go with you there, But I would say that the ones that even look pretty straightforward to have a lot of stuff going on in the back end. Sure, you have to do lots of things like you have to. You have to make very careful edits to make sure that the everything flows properly.

You want to make sure that the sound is just perfect because sometimes levels are different at different points. And also we often will include things like supplemental video to help illustrate a point. Stuff they want you to know is one of the I think more heavily produced videos compared to some not not all, I mean, we do have some that are are equivalent. So I want you, Matt, to walk me through what it's like to produce a

typical stuff They don't want you to know. So from the point where you've identified what the subject is going to be to the point where it's published online, can you walk me through? Well, first thing I would say is identifying what we're going to uh do use as a subject is a big part of the story. Because we generally get our audience too. They will interact a lot of times and kind of lead us on a

thread that will take us to a bigger story. And once we once we've established what the story that we want to tell, and I would say Ben does of that end because I'm usually over in this cave editing um. So once we've established that, we will go and then I will go to these various places on the internet like archive dot org. We have several places that we go like video blocks or I stock photo and try and gather as many images and assets that I can

that will pertain to that story. Then then there's this other back end after we record the audio, which is a process in itself where we'll sit in this room and have been do his creepy voice right, which still to the stay cracks me up because you know people have listened to Ben on my show where Ben has just been and when Ben has just been or if you've watched you know, brain stuff or what the stuff one of the episodes that has been on it, you

hear Been just being himself. Uh. And then you compare that to the character the persona version. That's some stuff they don't want you to know, and it just seems so not Ben. He is that character for me now, and when he's playing regular Ben, I feel like that's a and for a lot of people who are fans of stuff they don't want you to know. That's a lot of the response or like he's not doing his voice where pitching it down a little bit. I can't even do it. Here's where it gets crazy. I can't

do it either. It's impressive. We only have one person in the office who can really mimic Ben, and that's Annie. She's really well. She dressed up as Halloween that one year she did a smashup of and the visuals here Yeah, yeah, she she mimicked him from an imagery perspective anyway. Alright, So so Ben is writing you are you? You get

to the part where you record the audio. Alright, move on, now we get the audio, and what I have to do, particularly with his audio is chop up every single sentence and or even sometimes word, because what I like to try and do is make it match up with the sound the theme music that I've written for the show, so that it feels you wrote the music for the show. I did. I recorded and wrote the music just with a little MIDI controller. Still, that's incredible. Well it it's okay.

I think I think any discerning creator of music would laugh at it. Come on, I'm well from someone that can plank out a tune on a ukulele, it's really impressive. Okay, I didn't forget thank you, I love you, made a couple of videos you awesome stuff. Um. Okay. So I matched that up so that it has almost a lyrical feel to it um spoken word almost um. And it has a very driving beat in the song. So when it matches up, it just works so well. See that that's incredible to me, Like you have to have a

real ear for that. I I can appreciate it when it's done, I can't imagine actually constructing it. So what what tool? Well, what's the the editing suite that you're actually using when you're doing this? It has evolved over time. Originally it was the old Apple soundtrack application that we used to use, and then using that in tandem with Final Cut Final Cut seven in particular, and now we're using all Adobe products, so Premiere Audition, those are the

two primary ones and after effects. So you're using this software to to get this effect where you're matching up the cadence of the the delivery to the score of the episode. So that lays down sort of your guideline

for audio. Yes, what's what about the visual side? Okay, so I've got there are a couple of assets that remain the same throughout each episode, so you've got kind of the standard intro of the house that says on it and things that we shot gosh eight years ago maybe um, and then the c t A. You don't have to change very much, just plug in a couple of things. But when you're starting to c t A by the way, I apologize, yes, that's the place where

you go, hey, subscribe or click on this video. So if you've ever wondered, uh, you know, you see that it's almost ubiquitous now in YouTube videos. But Call to Action and the reason why you see it everywhere is because it works. It works, and we want to hear

from you. Yes, absolutely, the this may be a little too behind the curtain, but the click through rate generally in those c t a s, even on the biggest YouTubers, ranges between two you to like five, which means someone actually watching the video then clicking on the next video,

so it's actually really low. But the subscribe function there is usually the best thing, and stuff they don't want you to know has a lot of subscribers, so it's it's one of those things again you want to you know, we're we're producing things so that people listen and watch them, but we're doing so out of a genuine desire to

to impart cool information and to create a dialogue. You know, there's there's, there's the there's the business side of it that, yes, you want more views because that's good business, but there's from us as content creators. And by the way, we don't all like the word content, but we use it because what else are we gonna say storytellers? As storytellers, we want an audience to hear the story, and we

want to hear more stories in return. Yes, while we all enjoy talking to ourselves and you know, learning about these wonderful things ourselves it's much more fulfilling to know that someone else now has this information. Yeah, and and I remember, I can't I'll never forget the first time I got a listener email and flipped out because for a while it just felt like Chris and I were

talking into a microphone and then it would just go away. Oh, I know exactly, I know exactly that feeling, right, So all right, so I'm sorry I got you off track. So certain assets like the opening and the closing remain remain the same from episode episode. You don't have to change those, But then everything else has to be in a way. It has to be just filled in, so

you make sure you've got coverage. So a lot of the time, the first pass that I'll do is, let's say, and that when I gathered footage earlier, if there's anything that I know matches up directly with the subject matter or will fit perfectly to um either contrast with what Ben is saying, two create a you know, a third idea position. Yes, a lot of times like I'll just lay that in and I won't mess with it. I won't do any of the zooming or any that kind of stuff or effects on it. I'll just leave it

in there. Now I know I've got this um, then I will start filling in the hard stuff, which a lot of times is if I have to go and pull let's say, a quote from an article or something and actually type it in through premier or something. I'll do that kind of stuff. Then the next pass, once I've got the whole thing filled in, I have to color everything, which is a whole separate thing that normally it would be another person's job. Yeah, that's okay, that's fine.

I I love I knew nothing about it when I first started here. So you've you've actually developed brand new skill sets by necessity, which is true for everyone in the video and audio departments. Oh, I think so, and even I mean especially the podcasters and writers and editors. Yeah, it's It's also true for writers and editors who started off as editors and writers and then and then graduated to a type of performer. Yeah. For some of us,

we had had a performance background. Ben Bolan as an improvisational comedy background has a ham taking up the spotlight background. So it was not a big transition for me. But some of us, like Josh and Chuck, well, Chuck had done music. You know, but they had not necessarily sat down to be a performer in the classical sense. And now you know there are That's our flagship show. So anyway, um, you you have developed this new skill as a colorist

as well. Sure so so can you can you explain a little bit about what that entails, Like, you know, I've heard things like color correction or whatever, but what does that actually mean. Really, it's just using plugins from a program like like after Effects or Premiere, where you are manipulating the color values on any given shot or image. And what would be the purpose for that? Really? You

want to match. Either you're either going to match the entire video right to try and make things feel like they fit together, or you're going to try for some kind of emotional or effect. You're trying to affect the viewers perception of this image, so you're trying to emphasize it in something and and it's a weird thing, like trying to influence the way someone looks at this image, maybe sees it a little differently than the way it

was originally there. Yeah, because you only have so much, I mean, you can just alter the thing that is already existing. It's not like you can go out and it's not like you have like, oh, let's turn this this angle seventy degrees so that we can look at it from a different way. We can't do that, yes, not, not unless we're in specifically going out and shooting b rollers or that we have some computer graphics thing that we have developed in house and thus can manipulate it

that way. But most of the time we're talking about gathering assets from other sources. Yes, that is kind of what the show was built upon. Well, and it makes sense for stuff they don't want you to know. It has almost it feels almost like it has elements of

found footage in it. It has this very patchwork kind of approach, not not in quality but the feel of like it's all these different sources of information that are combining to tell this one story, which is important especially with the tone and and uh and the aim of that show. So I think, I think you guys do a really great job. All right, So you do your color pass. Yes, what happens next? Okay, now comes the

overall effects pass. So this would be adding things like noise to footage and or images to give it the stuff they don't want you to know. Feel so sort of that grainy look. Yeah, it makes it like, let's say I got an image that is just pristine from my stock of maybe a person's hands on a keyboard. Okay, so after I've color corrected it so it's not so saturated, the colors aren't so bright, and it still looks like a picture that someone took on purpose to look really nice.

What I'll do is kind of break the image a little bit by adding some noise or again doing some other things with color shifting, which would is a little it's a little complex, but basically will make the thing look like someone screwed up when they were using their old eight millimeter cameras, right, And that's a specific effect that you're going for. It. It helps again kind of

create the tone and the feel of the show. So it is fun to have all of these competing things of what what do I want the overall story to tell? Like what story do I want this video to tell? Then what what story to want this one image combined with this sentence to tell and then trying to do that on a video basis. So that's yeah, I mean that there's a huge amount of artistry and and uh, technical ability that has to go into making this work.

I mean, I'm sure it was one of those things that has been a learning process, and I'm sure you're still learning. Oh yeah. There isn't a day that goes by where I don't go, oh, I can do this now, way easier I could have. I could have taken ten minutes. When Okay, So so we said that I started here as a videographer, and uh, well, not too long into that journey of learning how to be a videographer because

I was fresh out of college. I got a degree at Georgia State in film and video production, and I really only knew what I had learned in a couple of classes where I actually got to hold a camera. I would say, my strengths are not there, that is not where they lie. They lie in this storytelling. I don't know we'd call it, I guess as an editor. And very quickly after that, we began hiring people and expanding, and we decided we wanted to make these things called podcasts,

and we weren't really sure what they were. We had some ideas for what they would be, and I found that if I was behind a computer and taking things that Tyler actually Tyler Klang, who became our videographer at the time, shot if I took those things, I felt like I had a lot more. I don't know, there's

more finesse for me back there. Um, I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, Jonathan, But all I'm all I'm saying is that the shooting shooting video and doing it really well, especially with the new cameras that around these uh these SLR camera cameras that have just some complex lenses that we were able to shoot at resolutions that a few years ago would have been unheard of. Yes, and and knowing how to make the best image from that device is just something that you have to really

focus a lot of your time on. No pun intended, No one intended with focus. But but that is not my I don't think it is. I mean, hence, hence, Wow, am I really going to say that? That's why I continue to shoot on this Sony e X one, which is an older camera. Um, but it it does one thing that's really awesome for our show, in particular, it can it has built in x l R, which is just the way you connect up like this, Mike that I'm talking to you on a John this talking to

you on UM. You can connect that directly to the camera. So when you're recording audio with Ben for our show, I don't have to have a separate piece of equipment hooked up, you know, with a mike that's hooked up to Ben and then also man the camera, so you don't You also don't have to then worry about marrying the audio track with the video track, which is a whole separate thing. And if you have something like pluralize, that's a really great program that you can match up

audio video. You can way easier than it used to be. Yes, like it used to be. You know the slates that you've ever seen in any behind the scenes video of any television or movie production. They have a slate that's the clapboard where they have the name of the scene, the number of the take, all that kind of stuff.

They clap it. The reason they clap it is that snapping sound is the que to match the video or the the image if you're shooting on film I don't know who is these days, assuming you are with the audio track so that the two match up, and if you get that off even a little bit, that's where you get that that Kung Fu movie effect of it looks like it's everything's been dubbed. Yes, And there can be problems with sinking where it will go out of phase or out of sinking. There is a list of

problems that can come with that. So I don't appind it being the old dinosaur. Yeah, I still use that old camera, but it's great. It's still shoots to an ADP and it looks fantastic, and I would say it kind of lends itself to our show even. So let me ask you this. From from the moment when uh you are actually recording the audio and you or even from the moment when you start gathering the assets to

the moment that it gets published, how much time has passed? Well, it varies quite widely depending on the subject matter and what footage is available. Um. Sometimes it will take two full days, so sixteen twenty hours. Um. Sometimes it will take a week, a full week of sitting there and trying to make it work. And how frequently do you publish?

We currently only published twice a week. But if it takes a week to do one episode and you published twice a week, that's why I am currently just now editing the audio and starting to sync up some video for the one that comes out this Friday. Well, it won't be this Friday when this publishes, right, but but in other words, we are recording this on a Thursday afternoon, yes, almost into Thursday evening at this point, and you have

a show that publishes tomorrow that you are currently working on. Wow. That's amazing. And that's where we've been, Jonathan since uh since the first batch of five. So how long have you been doing this show? Oh? Gosh, I think two thousand late two thousand eight is when I began production on Wow. Okay, so that's the same year the tech stuff started, so you you guys were not far behind us. And um, I think I was the one who actually came up with the title of your show. You did.

We were in the kitchen of our previous office and you and I were talking and you said stuff they don't want you to know, and I think you said it jokingly. Yeah. It just shows that even my jokes

are amazing ideas and people need to pay me more. Uh, well, that this has been fascinating, So so tell me, like, what are some of the you know, you've learned a lot honestly and clearly, not all of the lessons that you've learned for today are applicable to when you first started out because of different software suites all that kind

of stuff. But what are some tips that you would have given, uh Matt from two thousand eight, things that like, here's some general things I have found that are really effective in my job that would have saved you some some heartache back in the earlier days. Well, the first thing that Jerry and I have had many a meeting about. Jerry is the head of production here. Yeah, she's also the mysterious producer of stuff. You should know. She really

does exist. Yes, she's a real human she is. She's awesome, she is. Well. One of the big things is you have to learn when enough is enough and it's good enough to publish. Right. I sometimes have a problem of over complicating things, and especially when I was early making the show, so I would I would be here here being just the office wherever the office of house that works is. I would be here way too long working on things like well after hours, yeah, way beyond anytime

someone should be working. And that was a problem because I just couldn't live with not feeling like it was perfect. I can understand that. Like the idea that I mean, it's hard to let go when you when you are when you're crafting something and it matters to you and you know other people are going to see it, then you know it's it's very hard to let go. Sometimes I've gotten a lot more blase about it because I've

done it for so long now. I mean, I still have high standards that I want to meet, but I also can walk away a lot, a lot more readily than I could back in the day when we first started doing this kind of stuff. And I mean it's no joke. Guys, the video crew in general here at how stuff works. Some of the hardest working people in our office. No seriously, you guys have got I mean, considering the amount of video that we are producing here at the office, um, and we always are trying to

do more. You guys are working really hard to make sure that that stuff stays. Uh. You know that's publishing on time. Noel's the same way. He produces a lot of audio podcasts is right now and I guarantee you this is true. He is working on something else, like the next audio podcast or the one that you just recorded and Ben he is editing that right now while he's monitoring. Yeah, he's he's nodding at us right now, implacably. He's also making beats. Okay, well that's fair. So Knowle's

master multitasker. I am not. I'm a unitasker if there ever was one, But I mean we could tell other Let's tell a couple of interesting stories about the video department, just so folks can know some stuff. Like we joke about you guys occasionally, like we'll make a little reference whatever. And I'm sure people who have listened to the show for a long time have ped up little things here and there about the video crew. So some of the

interesting things that you may or may not know. UH for a while in our office that was in Buckhead, which is uh a neighborhood in Atlanta, affluent neighbor in the neighborhood in Atlanta. I personally was not a big fan of that office space, even when we were on the fifteenth floor. You know, it's just you know, I mean the break areas had a lot of character, but no one ever went to them, Like if you ever went into the big we had this enormous break room

had had previously been an executive office. Yeah, we and and then we converted that into a giant break room, which was cool to look at and cool to shoot video in, but almost no one went into except for some of the sales or developer people. They would go in there and play foosball, but the rest of us

never bothered to touch it. Um so uh. I was never a huge fan of our space there, But there was a while are our old podcast studio was a little alcove in an oddly shaped room, and that oddly shaped room served as both the audio podcast studio and our video studio. So we could not shoot video in the studio and do a podcast at the same time because it was all the same space. Uh. The podcast part was curtained off because it was it was almost

it's just this little alcove. Ye. The reason why I bring this up and how I I'm bringing it back to video is that for a while there was so much work going into video and there we was so like you guys, your resources were stretched so thin. That ad meant that some of you guys were working crazy hours, like so far into the night that once in a blue moon, someone would stay over and that was why When I walked into the audio podcast room, I was like, why the hell is there this huge pile of green

fabric laying on the ground. It was one of our extra green screens that Tyler had folded up into a sleeping cot. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. To be fair, Matt, I mean I also slept in the office more than once because I had to shoot television spots at five in the morning occasionally, and uh, I'd be done by I would get to the office and I would go into there was a room called the cool room, which was not cool. It was very warm, but it had a couch and I would sleep on that. I slept on

that couch more than once. So, I mean, it's happened to all of us. We've all worked like crazy hours to get the stuff we love done. And you know, you don't hear people complain about it. They really want to get the stuff done. So, uh, tell me give me an example of of, like one of your favorite memories so far of working in the video department of how stuff works. Okay, I'll tell you one, very very early one. I got to travel with Jerry and Tyler and Rock Sand with Marshall Brain to New York I

think in two thousand seven. I believe it was in two thousand seven. It was around the time that How Stuff Works went public, okay, and we got to go in behind the NASDACK sign. I don't know if you're familiar with the giant NASDAC sign in New York. And we got to go behind it and basically we were told how it worked. We got to take video of

all the moving pieces and all the LEDs. It was incredible, and you know, I was just trying to imagine when something like when an opportunity like that would come along in my life if I didn't work here. Yeah, I've had similar they've been they've been kind of a little punctuation marks in my long career at How Stuff Works because Matt and I were we've been here a long time.

Like there there are a lot of people we think of us whipper snappers because they've been here, like, oh I joined in two thousand eleven, right whatever, um, But yeah, there have been moments that are kind of like punctuation points where we've done some incredible stuff. Not not to say like my day to day job I think of as incredible, but there's certain things that go well beyond that where I'm like, Wow, I can't believe I had the opportunity to do this amazing thing. Have you talked

on the show about your ww E recent thing? I did not. I have not talked about it. Yeah. I I got the opportunity to go shoot some behind the scenes material at w w E SmackDown taping here in Atlanta, and uh w w E gave me incredible amounts of access. I got to talk to people of the crew. I got to talk to referees who are the leaders of the ring crew. We got to shoot shoot video of the light rig being put together, the stage being put together,

they Titan tron lifted into place, the ring constructed. We got to go under the ring. We were the first video crew ever allowed to go under the w w E ring. That was my favorite part now where I'm there with referee Charles Robinson, who's the He was overseeing the ring crew the ring construction, and he was telling me all about like how the ring, how the ring construction is different from the way it was back in the old days. I got to put the ropes on the ring so and they held up so I didn't

do anything. That's very important very tight. They are extremely tight. Yeah. They said that if it if it doesn't leave a well it's not tight enough. Um. Yeah. And then I got to talk to some of the superstars like right Back and uh and seth Rawlins, and I got to talk to Natalia who was amazing, Like everyone was phenomenal.

So that's the kind of opportunity that that I never would have had if it wasn't for How Stuff Works and the thing that I got hired to be a writer, you know, and now I'm doing this kind of stuff. So uh, it's really cool that you were able to join me talk about your show. I'm glad we got to do this behind the scenes. I hope I get to do more of these with some of the other shows here at How Stuff Works. I think this is

a great forum for it. And it's also nice to hear about, you know, what it as you do and and the steps that are involved in just making a single episode of stuff they don't want you to know come to life. I am very glad that we got to do this. Thank you, Jonathan. I didn't even go into the encoding process and uploading and publishing it all

that past. Maybe I'll have you on again, and we'll talk about that because because we are doing so much more video here at Hell Stuff works, that it might be fun to sort of talk about, uh, the second half of that process, the actual Okay, you've got the video to where you want it to be, Now how do you get it to the point where it is going to go up so that people can watch it?

So stay tuned because I'll probably do an episode about that in the future, and and Matt, maybe I'll have you on or uh, Yeah, it'd be great to have this kind of conversation and really go into the details about it. This has been an incredible episode of tech stuff for me. I didn't have my computer open, you didn't. I just closed it because I was like, we're just

gonna have a conversation and see how it happens. So if you enjoyed this episode, guy, let me know if you want to hear more stuff like this, like learn more about the behind the scenes technical aspects of how stuff works. I can talk to lots of people. I can talk to the people who published the stuff on the websites. We can talk to editors about how the articles are shaped so that they're ready to go up live.

On the sites. We can talk to other folks on the video crew, everything from how we set up video shots, to the equipment that we use, to the ways we work around limitations. Because sometimes limitations are the best things. Yeah, they make you be resourceful and creative. Yeah, which is why I argue the original trilogy of Star Wars is superior to the prequels because it didn't have the money. Lucas had limitations and he had to figure out ways

around them. And then by the time the prequels came around, he had no limitations. And now we see what happens. Oh man, when does this published? This will probably publish towards the end of April. End of April. Well, by the time that you've heard this, I will be just returning from the convention. Star Wars Convention in Anaheim. Oh you're gonna go to that, Yes, Tyler and I and Holly are going out. Well, to be fair, Holly did used to work for the fourth dot net, right, some

Star Wars dot com. It might have been the one I was actually thinking of. So I am jealous, but I can't. She's got the credentials and I don't. I'm just a fan. She's actually worked for stuff that's related to it, So I will I will definitely hit you up to ask what the heck happened at that you have holly On soon? Yeah, maybe I'll have holly On to talk about, um, the Star Wars fandom and the technical side of that, as long as I make it semi technical fits right, Yeah, pops pop stuff. So I

can't talk about stuff necessarily. Yeah, she's going to experience it all Tyler, and I will just be standing in front of her, behind her somewhere with a camera. It's kind of like your experience of Dragon Con. Yeah, Like, yeah, I wish I could really like enjoy this, but instead I got to point this camera this bald guy talking about things. We'll probably do it again this year too. All right, well, Matt, thank you again. Remember stuff they don't want you to know. Amazing show. If you've not

checked it out, go look up some episodes. There are tons of different topics. Uh, there are some that will really open up your eyes as to the crazy clandestine stuff that has happened over the past also as well as just an examination of how, you know, how intrusive certain ideas can become even when there's not a shred of evidence to support them. Yeah. So it's really fascinating. Check it out, and if you have any suggestions for me,

right to me. You know. If you want to hear more episodes like this, send me an email that addresses tech stuff at how stuffworks dot com, or drop me a line on Facebook or Twitter or tumbler at all three. I am text stuff hs W. We'll talk to you again. Really so. For more on that and thousands of other topics, how stuff work dot com