Are cyborgs just science fiction?

We're gonna We're gonna talk about cyborgs. And first of all, I would like to apologize to the anonymous listener out there who sent me the request that we do an episode about cyborgs. I did a search because I know I had seen it, but does searching my email could not find that request. So to whomever it was that sent that request, I apologize, but hopefully you'll enjoy what we have to tell you. All right, then, so where should we start. Let's let's start by defining what a

cyborg is. That's good because the first thing I had was the definition from Miriam Webster, which was, uh, a cyborg is a bionic human, which really didn't tell me anything. So I had to look up bionic, because I figured that would give me a clue, And they do say that bionic means quote having normal biological capability or performance enhanced by or as if by electronic or electro mechanical devices end quote, So basically a biological person who is

enhanced in some way by technology. Interesting. When I did a search for a good definition of cyborg, the first thing I got was cybernetic organism, which, like your definition, does not help you out a whole lot um. However, cybernetics is a study of human control functions and a mechanical and electronic systems is designed to replace them, involving the application of statistical mechanics to communication engineering. So really cybernetics is more and just just computers or computing systems.

It's also biology, um, neuroscience, that kind of thing. Also, if you're curious as to where the words cybernetics comes from, it has a Greek origin meaning terminator. No, I'm sorry, it means helmsman or steersman, so someone someone who who pilots a ship. Okay, then you know it's funny because you're all terminator. But when I started thinking of cyborgs, I was thinking more along lines of the six million

dollar man or the bionic woman. Right, well, you know, even even neuromanswer clearly, the six million dollar man is science fiction because there's no way you'd be able to build that sucker for six million dollars. Well this was the nineteen seventies, right, Well, that's true. Six million dollars then was about thirty trillion dollars. So, um, but somebody's gonna write in and go, no, it's not so cybernetics. That was a term that was introduced by Norbert Wiener

or Veener if you prefer. I. Yeah, that appeared in So uh, let's talk a little bit about No, is cyborg really within just the realm of science fiction or is this reality? Well that's a good question. Um. I would say it's it's reality, but the reality is not nearly is exciting and fun as science fiction makes it seem.

I think it all depends upon the particular cybernetics application you're talking about and the purpose for that application, Because for some people, I would say that the cybernetics and cyborg studies in particular are incredibly interesting, mainly because a lot of people are regaining use of certain senses or limbs that they may not otherwise be able to use due to cybernetics. So we can talk a little bit. Well,

how did you want to think talk about this? Um? Well, you know, I did a lot of my research on a recent article written for the site. You know, will we ever be able to communicate with only our minds? Oh? Yeah, I'm familiar with that. Yes, well, I mean, um, ladies and gentlemen of the podcast, this is something that Jonathan wrote about just a few days ago, and as a matter of fact, as we are speaking, it hasn't actually been published on the site, but probably will be by

the time that you're listening to this. But it's it's fascinating because, you know, the idea that we would be able to communicate with our minds, you know, the idea was tell, you know, telepathic communication, Because it turns out it's more like, can you find some kind of technology that will help you do that? In the answer is yes, yeah, you know, if you're going by the strictest definition, Uh,

can we communicate with only our minds? The answer is really no, because we we do need something in addition to our own minds in order to transmit the thought to someone else. Um, But we're actually making progress and doing that, and it's all because of what we call brain computer interfaces, and it's pretty much what sounds like. It's an interface that allows you to control or input

data into a computer using your brain. Most of these use e G. S Um that These those are the Yeah, the sensors you see that are hooked up to strategic points upon your noggin. Uh, They detect the electric impulses in your brain and can interpret those impulses. You know, we've studied the brain enough to know, hey, when you think lift my left arm, this area of your brain lights up. When you think lift my right arm, this

area of the brain lights up. So by doing that, even though we don't technically understand all of the mechanics behind it, we know enough where we can build a computer interface system to kind of take advantage of that. Now, this is in its most primitive form. Right now, there's really not Uh. We haven't reached a point where you can put on you know, your thinking cap to for lack of a better word, and have someone else put a similar cap on and then you think, hey, I'm hungry,

would you like to go get some pizza? And then the other person receives that thought and can understand it. We're not there yet. Uh. The experiment that I wrote about within that article was fascinating, but it involved actually thinking I want to lift my left arm or I want to lift my right arm. The computer would receive the electric electric signals that were zapping around in the

subject's brain and could interpret that. And so if you you know, I didn't don't have the article in front of me, but I think left arm was a zero and right arm was a one. So if the subject thought I'm going to lift my left arm, the computer interpreted it as a zero. If the subject thought I'm going to lift my right arm, the computer interpreted as

a one. The computer then sent this series of zeros and ones to a second machine that was in a remote location, and that would interpret it as you know, it would get a zero or one. It would then send a series of signals to a a lamp, an led lamp, which would flash in a very very fast series of flashes depending on whether it was a zero or a one. It was two different series, but it was such almost random looking and quick series of flashes that humans wouldn't be able to say, oh that was

zero or that was a one. They would just see, oh, there's a lot of flashes. That was a different, slightly different set of flashes. Um, well, the brain is enough, can can actually record you know what the different series of flashes are. You're not conscious of it, but your your brain is picking it up. And by wearing by the subject be wearing an e G setup uh, the e G would detect the signals in the brain that said, hey,

this is the series of flashes that lit up. That means that it was a zero, or that means it was a one. And so without using any kind of keyboard or anything, subject one could send a series of zeros and ones to subject to or subject and b I think is what I said originally, Um and uh, and you and the subject you would receive them. Now you're not again you You would need a separate, a third computer really to interpret those brain signals so that

subject being knows what kind of message they got. It would almost be like if I wrote to you using a language that you weren't familiar with. You could read it, but you have no idea what the meaning is. You should have to have something translated. So we're not quite to the point yet where we can send an actual thought and have someone consciously understand it. But the progress

has been remarkable. Yeah. Yeah, Actually in another um, not exactly similar, vein, but I read an article in in Wired magazine by Clive Thompson, uh, and it's it was about what he was calling the cyborg advantage. And this makes it. This is kind of you know, the title's waiste here than the content, but it's about chess actually, and um, you remember Gary Kasparov, who who you know,

beat and then lost to uh the IBM computer deep Blue. Yes, yes, he he won I think in ninety six and then in a rematch in nineties seven lost in a series of six games. Well, according to Thompson's article, he's been working on a situation in which he pairs computers and humans because basically the humans know how to make sense of the computer decision. So it's like playing chess with the laptop and you you, um, you make the laptop your partner and you say, okay, well you know the

other the other player just made this move. What do you think computer? The computer says, the logical move is to do this, and the human can either accept that decision and play that piece or say, you know what, I have the feeling he's up to something and I'm gonna I'm not gonna make move. I'm gonna make this move. And so he uh, you know, the the other player is able to you know, make a decision based on

the computer intelligence. It's sort of like it actually kind of reminded me of meteorologists going, well, you know the computer models say, um, but basically there was a there was a two thousand five tournament in which basically anything went.

So it was possible to participate in this tournament as a computer human pairing and uh, there were a couple of twenties somethings with and off the shelf PC essentially who did better than the really you know, like the grand masters of chess or you know, the heavy duty computer models. So basically that the two of them were

stronger than a computer or a really talented chess player. UM. So you know, I don't know how scientific that is, but it's it's an interesting thought to think, you know, maybe the augmentation of a human with computer technology, uh, you know, as a nice balance in between the too. That's actually, uh, that reminds me a lot of what Professor Kevin Warwick talks about in his in his various

papers and and experiments that he's performed. Um. He's a professor at the Cybernetics Institute at the University of Reading in the UK, and you mentioned him in your article, right and Warwick, Um, he's actually he was known for doing some things that some people have kind of called stunts, but he was sort of using them as a way

of a proof of concept form for a cybernetics cyborg future. UH. Back in he did this experiment where he had a doctor implant a essentially in UH an r f i D chip in him and UH the chip would allow him to walk through the laboratory and do things like open doors and turn on lights and whatever without without actually having to move a muscle because it just detected the chip and then the system reacted. Now, this really

has limited use when you think about it. I mean, the risks you're taking by having something implanted in your body just to turn on lights, that seems like that's not really a good use of your time. I mean, most of us can achieve this by carrying around a little card has a chip in it that doesn't require surgery. True but he was doing this as a proof of concept, and um, I don't think it's still in him. I think he's I think in every single case he's had

the various things removed after the experiment was over. Also, just aside benefit of that, if he runs away from home, they'll be able to track him down. Yeah. So in two thousand two, he had a one electrode array surgically implanted into his um left arm, and this allowed him to plug it into a kind of look like this, this plastic collar almost that would that would close around

his arm. Um. It looked very much like a sort of Star Trek kind of device, and uh, some wires would attach to the the color plastic color around his arm, and he would be able to do things like control robotic hands remotely. And what was happening was that, you know, your nervous system works through electrical impulses, like we're talking about in the brain, Well, the same is true all throughout your nervous system. So you you are a walking electrical being, um, at least as far as your nervous

system is concerned. So by pairing these electrodes with the nerve endings in his arm, he was able to send electric signals through his nervous system, which the the computer could interpret as, oh, this means open the robotic hand, this means closed the robotic hand. And to keep it simple, they pretty much kept it the same as opening and closing his own hand. Um, but that meant that it showed that you could control various mechanical devices through your

own nervous system. Now, granted, this is not a brain computer interface. This is this is her computer interface, right, So yeah, it seems like that would be much simpler to organize compared to a brain computer interface. It as much simpler. However, it's still incredibly complicated, and of course you have lots of things to worry about. I mean two, whenever you're surgically implanting foreign materials into a human body, there are a lot of different things you have to

worry about, like infection, rejection, that kind of thing. I have to worry about rejection every day in my life. Uh at any rate, So that's a sidebar. The He then went on to have another interesting experiment where his wife had a similar, slightly more primitive implant and put into her arm and then the two were connected. Yeah, I wonder how he talked her into that. Um, I don't know. I can never talk my wife into doing

something like that. She'd be like, yeah, whatever, um. But but at any rate, the way the the connection worked was that whenever his wife opened or closed her hand, he would get an impulse through his nervous system and would he said, feel a pulse. He did not really define how it felt, so I'm really curious to as to what kind of sensation is he talking about, Like,

how did he perceive? I know that he did perceive, or at least he claims to have perceived his wife opening and closing her hand, And that seems like it's an easy enough thing to test. You know, you could keep them both separate and as long as the connection was good, um, you know, just have him indicate whenever she opened or closed her hand, and if it matched up, then you know, all right, there's something there. But he did not go into how what it felt like, So

I don't know what his actual perception was. But this was another way of saying, hey, you know, maybe we'll get to a point where again we'll be able to communicate. Actually they could theoretically, at least she could communicate to him remotely just through morse code opening and closing her hand.

But yeah, maybe that's is good robust enough. Yeah, yeah, And I don't know how good that connection was, like how far away they could be from each other, or if it was through the Internet connection or anything like that. That I got the least amount of information about that particular experiment. But Warwick's point is that cybernetics can give us a lot of enhanced abilities that we otherwise would

never have access to. So not just the ability to communicate remotely, which is phenomenal, but imagine being able to tap into the network of information on the Internet through

your brain. Yeah. That that again sort of reminds me of like the matrix and neuromancer, where you know, you plug something in and suddenly you have access to all this information neither stored well in those cases, more like like an e book where you can you know, just have access to that without being connected to the Internet. Now what's interesting here is you would you would remember things.

It's like memory, right, Like you would be able to say, huh, when was you know, uh, when was the Magna Carta signed? And then you access the Internet through your brain and like, oh it's twelve fifteen. But no, that's not it's a three oh oh the year got it? King John Magna Carta work with me here. So um. But but yes, you could. You could recall facts, but you wouldn't necessarily

be smarter. You would just remember a lot more stuff. Right. Well, that would sort of be like the chess versus uh, you know, the chess situation where the computer is acting on logic and it was you know, this is a logical move it. You know, in the past many people have used this and in the the end result was a win. But two percent of the time that people use this move, they went on to win the match. Yeah, exactly.

And and you know the human is using intuition and is able to use human intelligence to make sense of that information. So you know, having the opportunity to use that information from you know, downloaded online. But you're right, you wouldn't be able to do anything other than just simply know the act. You might win a lot of Jeopardy games, right, but you wouldn't be able to Let's say you needed to to look up a particular formula

for some sort of mathematical equation. You might be able to find the formula, but that doesn't mean you would understand it, right, So there's there's that barrier there. Now, that's not to say that there wouldn't be other developments, cybernetic developments that would allow you to have much more say, processing power in your brain as well, where maybe you

don't have to understand it. You've got the computer working there, which Warwick's point was that frees up your brain to do other things like create poetry or you know, watch the Simpsons at any rate. Uh, other ways you could enhance it, and not just not just through being able to access information, but to sense things that human beings are unable otherwise to sense, like ultrasonic frequencies or light

that's outside of the visible spectrum. Right. You know, you would be able to maybe create a cybernetic implant that would allow you too, uh see X rays, provided of course, your eyes are capable of seeing them. Well, again, why would it have to be an eye. You could build a sensor like let's say that you don't do it

through your eyes. Let's say that you have a sensor placed somewhere else on your body that you know, we think of it as seen, but it doesn't necessarily have to be seeing that's that's that's Warwicks point is that we we already think in such a narrow set of parameters that cybernetics really goes blows all that out of the water, and suddenly you become this machine or slash human that's capable of sensing uh, you know, a significant more information about your environment and even be able to

interpret it more because you could tap into, say the Internet remotely. Now, this this raises a lot of ethical problems. I sent us treading closer to the singularity with this conversation. Yeah, it does kind of get it definitely goes to that same sort of area. But one of the ethical issues is who is able to to do this? Should they? Should they do it? And if they can do it and they want to do it, what does that mean for the people who either cannot do it or don't

want to. Are they left behind? Do we become two different species of creatures because you would have the cyborgs who would suddenly have access to all this information and sensory uh, information that otherwise they wouldn't have, and the rest of us would just be bags of meat sees sneeches without Yeah, so there you go, like, you know, these are questions we don't have answers to right. For

one thing, the technology is nowhere near there yet. And uh, some might argue that, hey, since we can't do it yet, why are we Why are we wasting time worrying about it? But my point is it's better to think about these things ahead of time before they become a real issue,

you know. And and and it may turn out that this is one of those things where science leaps far ahead of ethics or the law and it only becomes a problem, you know, or it becomes a problem and then we address it as opposed to let's think about this now and trying to address it ahead of time. Um. But I'm sorry you were about to say, well, no, I was gonna say that, you know, it hasn't stopped it

from becoming a reality in other circumstances. Very good. Yeah, but there's just not again as as flashy, um, and as those experiments that we were we were just discussing, I mean things like you know, Barney Clark's first artificial heart, you know, that was a technological advancement. Or a pacemaker, for example, is an electronic device that is implanted in somebody to uh, to help people monitor their heart rhythms

and make them more regular. Um. Yeah, there's some really phenomenal technology that's already in fairly common use out there that um that really kind of falls right into this cyborg uh category. I mentioned cochlear implants earlier. That's definitely something that would fit. So a cochlear implant. That's an electronic device, and it's designed to help people who have severe hearing loss or who are even deaf um be

able to perceive sound. Now they're perceiving it differently than the way people who have normal hearing would perceive it. It's not exactly the same thing. A cochlear implant. It has a microphone, so that's what's picking up the sound from the environment. UM. It usually has a speech processor which kind of helps arrange that sound to to help the listener makes sense of it. Um. And then the transmitter sends signals to an electrode array, which sends the

impulses to various regions on the auditory nerves. So you're getting the signals sent directly to the auditory nerve. It's not passing through the regular organs of the ear, you know. And uh so people who have cochlear implants can actually perceive sound. Again, it's not exactly the same kind of sound that we perceive, but with training, they can completely hear and be able to hold conversations and uh, differentiate

different sounds. It's just it's it's almost impossible to really, like, I can't I can't compare the two because clearly, I mean, I just have normal hearing. I don't have a cochlear implant, so I couldn't tell you what the differences are, like, I couldn't give you any kind of meaningful description between the two. But it is it is a common well not common might not be the right word, but it is in use. It is not uncommon. Yeah, it's not.

It's not like there's only three people walking around experimentally. I mean, there are thousands of these um and it's really revolutionized that, you know, the way we treat people who have severe hearing loss. But it's not like people are walking around like Victor Stone from the Teen Titans, otherwise known as Cyborg, who has you know, detachable hands that you can refit with lasers to fight bad guys

with no cucklear implants don't do that. Well, no, I'm just saying it's not flashy or showy or something like that where you have a lot of that going on. Well, and then there's um, did you read up on bionic eyes? Bionic eyes? Yea, cybernetic eyes. Actually, well, I mean six million million dollar man in one right, Uh, this is

not as flashy as that. I exactly. So the current the current state of the cybernetic eye, it's it's still really fascinating, but it's one of those things where when you hear the term, you immediately kind of imagine what it must be like, and chances are your imagination is already jumping leaps into bounds of of beyond technology. Yes,

exactly so, currently the state of cybernetic eyes. It's usually a system that involves a pair of glasses that the side impaired person wears, and there are cameras mounted onto the glasses. The cameras are the one things that are picking up the images, uh, sending signals to UM a transmitter, which then transmits it to a an implant. UM. There's actually an implant that is surgically attached to the rear of the retina and that sends the signals to the

the visual cortex of the brain. So you're basically bypassing your biological eyes. Yeah, you're using the eye as a lens, but that's about it. No, well, no you're not. You're using the cameras a lens, but the eye. Yes, you're the you're essentially saying, okay, well the eyes are not working the way they should. You've got the the kind of a bionic retina attached to the back of the eye. So yes, you are bypassing the normal um, the normal eyes, and you don't really get an image the way we

think of images. You get a difference of light or dark, and it's made up of just a few dozen pixels. So really it's good for detecting light environments, dark environments, and motion. Um, you don't really have a lot there to to really be able to recognize actual shapes, or at least not not really distinctly. I mean, with training, people who have these have been able to recognize certain shapes, but it takes a while because it is it's not

a very high resolution picture. In fact, it's abouts low resolutions you can imagine. But the the hope is that maybe in the future you would be able to develop this. Not you, Chris, because you've got other things to do, but that scientists would be able to develop this to the point where people who were using them would be able to recognize faces or perhaps even read large print books. Um,

we're well away from that right now. But but there's a lot of work going into it, and it also sounds a little bit like some of the work that Dean Cayman has been doing, right, Like we talked about it. Of course, we talked about that in the previous podcast, right that was last year. Yeah, we talked about that was a focus on Cayman. We haven't done a focus on a very long time. Yeah, I love to do

that at some point. But he's been working with UH with cybernetics and and uh ways to create artificial limbs that are basically respond to uh, you know, nerve impulses and and get people to move. And he's been very successful as far as designing the limbs and and having them be uh, you know, a good weight and have a lot of articulation, less successful with the nerve interface.

He's been using other interfaces in the meantime while while there the scientists have been trying to perfect the nerve device interface. So things like you know, foot pedals that are in that you wear in your shoes, and you use your toes to actually, you know, control the arm. Interesting, so you can make the wrist turn or or the fist open or close just by moving your toes a

certain way. Um. But yeah, the goal, of course is that eventually you would be able to implant uh wires within the nervous system and be able to control the arm without having to use some other like extra control system. Now, there are a lot of other issues that I think of when it comes to cybernetics and cyborgs. It's not just you know, should we do it. I think of things like my electronics tends to right down. I would hate for my eye to stop working. Well, I mean,

but for a lot of people it does. I mean biologically it can. And you might even argue that, hey, Jonathan, if your eyes were mechanical, you could have them fixed, whereas when they're biological that may not be an option. And yeah, you got you got a good argument there. I'm just saying I don't want to be like, you know, piloting my flying car while I get the blue screen of death over both eyes. Now, I'm not saying that my eyes would necessarily be running Windows twelve, but who knows.

It's an interesting thought though, well, and I mean I do there are other things you gotta worry about. Like I said, though, with the just the whole introducing any kind of foreign object into the body, there are all these concerns you have to have the go beyond just the ethical implications. I mean they're actual, like you know, biological health implications as well, but un and all the

lead that would be in the soldering for that, right. Yeah, anyway, Well, moving on then, I think I think this was a good discussion about cyborgs. So yeah, I think we're on our way to seeing at least a variation of the cyborg and science fiction become a reality. It may not be quite as sexy as the Terminator, No, probably not, at least not in the short run. No, but you know Skynet's coming, so don't worry guys. Well, I guess

that's pretty much wraps up this discussion. If any of you have any comments, questions, suggestions, things like that, you can write us. Our email address is tech stuff at how stuff works dot com, and we have articles on the website right now that cover things from bionic eyes to cochlear implants, and being able to communicate telepathically with the use of computers. Hopefully that'll be up by the time this this episode goes live, so you should check

that out. Remember that's how stuff Works dot com and Chris and I will talk to you again really soon. For moralness and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot com and be sure to check out the new tech stuff blog now on the house Stuff Works homepage, brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you