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hello and welcome to technically speaking where scientists and Engineers come together to chat about common interests share knowledge and satisfy some curiosity I'm Antonia and in this episode I'm joined by Ellie and Laura to talk about using video to tell science stories and the experience of making documentaries to start off with Ellie how did you get into this originally I did a masters in Wildlife documentary production and in doing so I made three of my own uh not very good but slightly
better by the end student films um documentaries about wildlife and about like various aspects but I did it all myself because it was student films I didn't have a big production team so I did all the filming myself all the editing myself sound design the whole the whole thing as you can imagine I did have help but predominantly it was my film and then from that I went into working in television for a little while but we're going to talk more about that in a bit wonderful so from a student
films to doing everything by yourself to now being a piece of a large production crew for TV cool can't wait to discuss that a little bit more so Laurie you're you're a jack of all trades in the science communication so tell us a little bit more about any experience you've had with documentaries yes so I'm now a freelance science Communicator I've been doing that for just over a year now and when I was interviewing someone for a different podcast and I got talking from
afterwards after the interview they were like can we do a documentary and I said well yeah anything's possible Famous Last Words yeah I mean what I what I didn't have necessarily was the equipment to record a documentary to a high standard so Ellie put me in touch with someone who could put a film crew together and a producer and we flew out to Japan to record the experiments that these scientists were doing and I think one of the things that really interests me
million documentaries is that I really like learning I like sharing knowledge and finding out new things which is kind of why my whole careers I've just sort of bounced around from different science disciplines which is kind of what led me into freelancing which I really enjoy because I get to learn things from other people that's great so how long have you been freelancing for since April 2021 does that sound right yeah just over a year is what I said that must
make sense isn't it yeah more like 18 months now I think it was around the time I started joining in in the podcast yeah so we started the podcast when I was still in my previous role in Academia you guys helped me transition really well because you gave me all this experience of how to interview people and how to start telling that science story you guys helped me in my career which is great I'll take that yeah this podcast has been an interesting experience in translating what
information I've read into a digestible format it's so interesting what Laura said about a story as well like that's what got drilled into us doing the documentary because a lot of us were scientists but what's important when you make a documentary is the story that's what's going to get people to watch so we had a little running joke that our lecturer would say oh don't forget about the story or make sure you're weaving in story elements but it was just story
story Tory the whole time like that's what you were really focusing on to tell the science and stuff to a wider audience it's also one of those things I remember my PhD supervisor talking about as well have what story is your thesis telling which I guess is where I first started to learn it so obviously the thesis is like any science report that you'd write in school but a lot bigger where you start off with the introduction and the motivation like why are you doing it what are your aims
the background behind this what have people done so far and then what did you do how did you do it what extra knowledge does this add to the world what can you conclude from that and I think the story and documentary it can be similar but then there's also like the human aspect of it as well like why do you have scientists doing science and what's their passion for it yeah so you can be a little bit Freer with the storyline that you're trying to put forward in a documentary you don't need
all the nitty-gritty details necessarily of well I put my sample in here and then I did this and then I tweaked this setting and I found that I just had visions of someone stood behind Laura she played with buttons on a very complicated scientific machine in a lab but yeah we used to get that all the times what are you gonna see because obviously documentary is a visual medium you have to be able to tell someone to convince them to give you money to make a documentary of what are we going to
see why is this interesting it's the same with your thesis do you have to convince anything to to go forward and then more than that is to entertain people but hopefully they'll enjoy it and tell their friends about it well that's the aim isn't it to sort of have people engaged and hope they pick up some knowledge along the way absolutely so how do you go about figuring out what is the story because say from from an experiment or your entire thesis for PhD you'd spend three years and then you've
got to condense that into something cohesive and for some of the wildlife documentaries as well they could be filming trying to find that one moment that you know say the lion finds its prey how do you condense it into a story what you said about the lion Finance prey like lots of stories get scrapped because you need that one key money shot that one key element and if you don't have that you can hardly film a lion hunt without having the lion you know hunting you need that sequence to show
what's happening so I mean there is a slog and there'll be a lot of Prior research for any of those big Wildlife documentaries to go into it they'll go knowing that this is what they're likely to see and if they talk to locals or they talk to experts or researchers or whoever they can put them in the right place at the right time to hopefully capture that on film so you need yeah you need a lot of Prior research and a lot of like we call it storyboarding where you'll write out or Draw out
what's going to happen in each scene and then try and film the shots to match which doesn't always happen but is the idea I feel like that's been really difficult in a natural history documentary where you just kind of hoping that the animals will do as you expect based on that research and for the time you're filming they might not right yeah absolutely I had full intentions that I was going to film woodlice uh for my final film as like part of it a small section and I was
like I would like to be absolutely easy I'll just go to this Forest I was gonna go to anyway for something else and I'll turn over a few logs and I'll film some wood likes what I didn't sort of factor in is that woodlice is quite boring from a visual perspective like at the time I found I didn't find that many to be fair so that was already off a back burner and then they just you know they'd crawl around in the wood they're like quite cute in a way but they didn't they
weren't doing anything there was no story so that that got scrapped in the end the woodlice did not make it into my final film because they weren't doing anything interesting enough but I'm sure you spent a lot of time and you planned it better and you talked to woodlice experts they would tell you when and where you could capture the key Behavior I didn't do that I filmed butterflies instead who apparently are more interesting and have story and different behaviors I guess from what you were
just saying yeah much more interesting and much more visibly appealing I mean no offense to the word life but beautiful orangey butterfly versus small gray tiny woodlouse we might even find them in our house butterflies don't tend to just wander into our house yeah I have historically been a big wood loss fan and I was like yeah this is my chance to show off the woodlice and then I fluffed it not to get distracted but why would lice what's so wonderful about them
that you would have conveyed in your documentary had you got some good footage of them so the whole the whole idea was that my documentary was called from the ground up so I started with species on the ground of which the wood lice was supposed to be the first species and I was going to go up through the like levels and habitats of the orchard ales until I got to the peregrine falcons at the top of the sky that was the idea but as with everything the woodlice didn't work out and the the
story evolved from there to not include the lights which I still feel bad about to this day yeah making documentaries is not a straight line telling a story is not necessarily where you think it will go well if you watch any film or any you know good plot do you have twists and turns yeah finding that drama that's something you aim for with Scientists in the lab as well so the documentary that I was doing was following these scientists from the United States is
they went to Japan to use this um this really Niche piece of equipment to find out something about their samples that way they would never know using any other method then is the producer on the documentary John was saying you need a bit of drama or some Jeopardy so the film crew kind of wants something to go wrong during the experiments and the scientist would obviously rather that didn't happen that everything went perfectly but it does make a more interesting story when you get a bit of
we've only got like 60 hours to do these experiments we need every single hour that we've got what if something goes wrong and we don't get any data how can we pull this back you definitely need drama to keep people watching like if it had all gone perfectly 10 scientists going from America to Japan to use a piece of equipment is not necessarily a story it's interesting from a scientific point of view and I'm sure what they found out would be interesting but yeah
you need a hook you need a draw you need something a bit dangerous a bit sexy to keep people watching it yeah it does help I guess the other way you could do it because obviously all those scientists have got a real passion for what they're doing in a real interest so if you can convey that in an exciting sexy way then that could also be quite compelling what if you wanted calm TV you know like ASMR is super popular on on YouTube and it's just people doing normal things but with the sound
Amplified so what if we just went with those like some of the wildlife documentaries are just pretty nature imagery and they're just using a background or what about those kind of documentaries that just tell you the thing as it is you need a mix I think you need the nice calm beautiful sweeping drone shots of the mountains but then you also need the eagle carrying the goat over the cliff and dropping it and you need like a balance of drama and calm of chill because also
they switch right so that you think of a David Attenborough he goes from you know um the goats on the mountain and then it moves on over a sweeping mountain and then you're in Africa looking at Elephants or you're in something else so you need balance and you need moments and you need transitions to flow flow between but yeah you've got a you've got to love a bit of drama yeah I mean I guess the calm bits will appeal to someone but the dramatic stuff might appeal to a wider audience yeah
and yeah you're right in that you sort of you find the Beats yeah exactly so you've got yeah there's the slow bits that kind of let people take a breath gives the documentary a chance to Breathe Again is the producer was saying I'm making it sound like I'm the expert and I just learn a lot from the group that I was with but the Beats is absolutely right so when I did secret life of the zoo we had beat sheets General beat sheets where we would write all the information and it
would be four beats of the story or five depending but like the first beat is you know Tommy and Timmy live in a tank that's beat one they're Brothers they've been together forever and then beat two is oh no something's gone wrong beat three is Tommy's gonna die what's gonna happen Timmy's gonna be the straw and then beat boys oh no they're all fine he's had the medicine you know and it it works like that it's the Beats of the story are absolutely right so I want to
hear a bit more about Laura's experience with filming scientists because not gonna lie it doesn't sound like it would be the most Jeopardy filled drama if everything went well but how did you work that storyline in then something did go wrong ah bright at the start of the experiment and I was hanging and I with the scientists so they were in a control room which is next to particle accelerator for Simplicity we'll call it the particle accelerator um because I like talking about those
scientists didn't get the control room and I'm sort of just chilling out seeing what's happening I've never been there before I wanted to see what it was like and that like we can't deliver a sample to where the photons exit from the park accelerator and should scatter through our sample we can't get any data in that case we need to fix this so I'm messaging the film crew it's about midnight by the way so things are going wrong come come film um and then there had to be sort of you
know a calming down overnight because no other staff are around to help out necessarily what's going to happen and then is it fixed how how's it been fixed does that mean we can proceed with the experiment so do we have to change something so the Jeopardy was there from the start and it was also covid times there's a chance that someone could have caught covid on the journey out so that could have been a drama Point as well but you never really know until you get
out there and you're filming it you can storyboard it all you want and you can hope that certain things will happen but then when you get there I guess there's a balance between telling it honestly and then if nothing dramatic has happened maybe creating that drama somehow which I'm not too sure how we would have done it if something hadn't actually gone wrong but there you go maybe in a future documentary that will happen like a report back I look forward to watching that it's
like you said when we did um different episodes I was filming an episode about a chameleon it was going quite well and you know ticking along and then the Zookeeper said to me oh by the way I'm gonna put these lizards in the bottom of the chameleon I mean huge enclosure um but don't worry about it all they're going to do is run around the bottom they won't interfere with anything you know they're quite quite species they'll probably just hide so I was like five yeah whatever
honestly that's what you've got to do and of course these blooming quiet ground dwelling lizards decided that they wanted to crawl up the trees leap off the branches you know get in the way of the chameleon in just about every single sense of the word and my boss is going why didn't you film the lizards going in you could have had the first reaction you could have had a you know face off and I was like because they told me that they weren't going to be in the trees they told me they were going
to do nothing so you can plan all you like but you never know what the blooming lizards are going to do on day three film everything is my decision film everything and then discard the bits that aren't interesting which is easy to say when you've got a film crew and you don't have budget responsibility because we were at the zoo for so long we've had people on site the whole time but with Laura's it's very different you need to figure out how to sift through that
footage afterwards I know the film crew said they recorded 25 hours of footage for I said 60 hours of experiment right but there was also a lot of stuff like uh people eating dinner or doing their laundry or going for a bike ride or something to chill out or shots of people not necessarily doing science but talking about science then again there was Beauty shots the sort of the b-roll that has like sunsets in it and some of the wildlife that was on site and that sort of thing how long was your
documentary in the end we're aiming for 10 minutes so we want something quite short and snappy that will hold people's attention so yeah 25 hours of footage for a 10 minute documentary yeah that's a lot of content to get through how did you sort of manage it did you start with a storyboard of what you wanted to get out of it from what the crew was saying it does make a lot of sense to have the storyboard to begin with so you know kind of what you're aiming for you can
interview the scientists and ask particular questions to try and sort of almost get the response that you're looking for but without putting words into their mouths because obviously they've not seen the storyboard and they don't know what you're aiming for so they're just speaking really naturally and then it is a case of well how does what they said fit into the storyline do we need to tweak it somehow there's also the challenge of representing the science accurately but still making it
understandable to a wider audience because what these guys are doing is incredibly Niche and I could easily spend 10 minutes just trying to explain in detail what they were doing but that's not the purpose of this documentary the brief we were given was to make one of the scientists grandparents understand or have awareness of what they were doing without rolling their eyes because some people just aren't that interested in signing so then how do you get across just the
excitement bit of designs without necessarily sacrificing accuracy in what you're talking about that is a real Challenge and I'm still not quite figure that out yet still the work in progress the documentary's not out yet still being edited whilst it's still in editing where will your documentary be we're initially aiming for YouTube but then after that who knows apparently if enough people request something to be put on Netflix and it's on certain databases no Netflix will actually go
and punch out and put it on their platform that would be cool I didn't know they did that yeah I did some digging in preparation like where else could we put it how many people is a lot of requests do we need like a couple of hundred thousand or probably yes I also don't know if it's Nation specific because what is available in the US isn't necessarily available here so I don't know quite how fine-grained it is which is what I remember reading when I was looking into well where could we put
it but yeah something like some thousands yeah you're gonna enter it into like uh film festivals and stuff because that was a real push when we were doing our masters was that final films can be entered into like short film film contests and film festivals and then you can get fun Awards and bees be a bit extra snazzy but I mean I never did that because mine yes it's definitely something we are thinking about we'll try and nail down the dialogue first and then the guys are
going to put in the beauty shots and the animations of the science and then yeah we'll make a decision on what to do after that I want to watch it yeah how do you go about deciding what platform to put your films on I think would tell you it's a bit different as something like secret life of the zoo or spring watch because they've been going for so long they're very not easy but they're very like well known and it's just a repeat basically once you've done a
series people go again to get the idea of how it works and yeah changes will be made but it's very repeatable like spring watch is essentially the same every year in that they film the animals Michaela Strachan stands in a field and talks about barn owls and it's all very nice and they go you go to different locations but it is it isn't virtually the same whereas uh something like Laura's is much more you know it's a what up necessarily it's a niche product it's four different audience as well
like screen watches on BBC Primetime probably has a few million people watch it every night but also now in the digital age as well like we didn't have Netflix and stuff when spring watch was first brought up 14 15 16 years ago so there was no option to necessarily put it on YouTube or put it on Facebook or do anything like that so yeah it's really really interesting to see and Netflix has changed to how people watch TV so much like I remember running home to watch things because they were only
on at five o'clock and that was it and if you missed it you missed it you convince what secret life it is you know you couldn't do that before so you could have all the animals I strongly encourage everyone to be in charge of the zoo especially which season oh gosh I should know that 16 no the episode I did were filmed in 2019 so you can work backwards from there and work out which ones I was involved in and my name is at the end if anyone really wants to do a
deep dive my name is in the credits so early is obviously on a big product action how big was your team Laura it's pretty small there was only three of us so I was Consulting to make sure the science was portrayed correctly and make sure we stuck to debris okay and we had um a director sort of in a producer sort of but they were both doing camera operation as well the producer was the person that came up with the storyline that we kind of tweaked a little bit to
get the science in there okay so there's only really three of us now back in the UK gone through edit so we've got an editor as well so four in total and there are people working on a soundtrack and that's it how does that compare to to when you're on the secret life of the zoo for example Ellie we definitely have more today we had at least four camera operators and then there were four researchers at one point or three researchers and uh assistant producer then we had the series producer story
producer yeah The Tech Guy someone in charge of copying all the footage so the camera people would go out film The Chimps film the elephants from the giraffe and whatever come back and then give their camera cards to the data Wrangler who would then copy all the data from the cards onto the Mainframe and then that will get sent physically in a hard drive to London to the edit so the edit was ongoing while we were still shooting so we started February and I
think maybe the edit started April so we were shipping footage like and they were editing it as we could get it in and we'd get a message from the edit being like Oh do you mind just going back and filming that tortoise again because we really like it to do this can you just ask about a zookeeper if they'll say this and yeah we had I had a lot of conversations where I was like so you know that thing we did three weeks ago can we do it again because it's not
quite right for the edit so yeah we had a team I mean a real team and you could watch the credits and add them all up but I mean easily 25 maybe 30 people and yeah people I never met as well because I was on location in the zoo and the editors were all down in London the execs would come up not very often maybe every two or three months to see make sure everything was going okay but yeah I mean lots of people to make that show is data Wrangler an actual job title in
the credits is that what they call it wow I like that that was my question too that is a really really important stressful job I would hate to be a data Wrangler because if it goes wrong you've lost all of that work and not necessarily through your fault I mean technical problems happen a lot but and the problem is what I would find the most stressful is that lovely Jess was our data Wrangler she had a box of like in cards and out cards so you put the card into the inbox Jess puts it in the
computer copies the data puts it in the outbox and then that card goes back to the camera operators and then they wipe the footage so that you can keep reusing the cards otherwise you need less and less nodes and that would just scare me so much like imagine if it hadn't copied and then they put it in back in the camera and they format the card and that footage is wiped like oh all gives me hives thinking about it yeah I think that would make me a bit paranoid
because I won't be constantly checking is that the right card do I definitely send it out to someone to reuse yeah exactly so you have to be super organized like it's a really good job and it's a good way in if you want to be a camera or that's quite a lot of where people start is data angling and like technical assistant camera assistant roles is all kind of sort of similar and you can go go on from there and would you say it was kind of a similar setup with spring watch because that's quite
established as well spring watch was a little bit different because it was still covered so we had much less people than would normally have been there and I was story developing so I was in charge of like watching cameras for we did 12-hour shifts or 10 hour shifts I remember now but I sat basically in a hut all day and watched cameras of Wildlife for extended periods and recorded Clips to then send back to the edit so in we didn't have a data Wrangler in the same way because we were
clipping the clips it was like an inbuilt system sort of thing um so yeah but that that would have been more and there were teams because we were in again on location in Norfolk there were then teams in Bristol editing there was a team that was doing like wider research because spring watch is also live so then we had the live team so we had like a sound person camera people all of that but it's also made up of VTS videotapes they're still called where people would have gone out months prior
and filmed a little three or four minute clip about I don't know bats or something nice otters but that would have been done by a completely separate team sometimes so you can have like little elements that would have been filmed by like a Laura sized team of three or four people that then feed into our show so it gets bigger and bigger because the show is so big but yeah I would say spring watch was surprisingly few given how established it was but that was mainly a
covered a covered thing there were still a lot of people working on it they just weren't all in one place at one time yeah those live elements was make it I guess more interesting and also more stressful to film because you need timings to happen things line up at the right time right say right go to this thing now or oh there's some sort of Crisis going on in that location let's not go there let's have a backup plan yeah so we would have someone I can't remember what they're technically called
what their job title is but there's someone Counting so they have sheets and sheets so you do rehearsal and then you have sheets and sheets of the order the running order of the show and you'll say there'll be someone in the ear of the presenter being like five seconds till Live four seconds till Live three seconds online and it literally counts like that gosh and then Chris Packham is like good evening and welcome to Spring watch and then it's like we've got 30 seconds on
this and we're rolling and we're still going and then three seconds to the VT and now we're going to a VT of autism thing play the VTE BT runs for three minutes and then 30 seconds out and then and it goes on and on all for an hour and then right at the end they're like and we're clear and everyone's real is a huge salary because you're not live on the BBC at eight o'clock Prime Time with the nation watching oh my God but no it isn't um to go to a live TV set on
location or in a studio is such a rush it's so fun and when I did um stephs which is a student Studio live studio show which is still on stuff about lunch uh channel 4. the amount of things that you can do in a three minute ad break is incredible like the team are so good and you can clear whole sets and you can bring in you know Farmer John and his 10 alpacas or you know an entire team of dancers or anything because people are so on it and they're so all about the timings and you only have
three minutes to get everyone on before you're back live on there so yeah it's really fun if you like being in a transparent environment live TV is is the place for you they're so stressful as well amount of running I did on that show was ridiculous you'd be super fit though oh yeah 10 000 steps a day easy oh I can sense career change coming on for me now I'm going to transition into doing live TV behind the scenes it's so good I mean that that show is is a lot
of people as well because you have all the crew doing the cameras and then you have what's called a gallery so you'll see there'll be like maybe four or five six people in the gallery watching the show as it goes out and the director will be in the gallery being like okay cut to camera three cut to this and close up on this guy and this says all this sort of back chatter that you would never hear when you're watching the show but people are are doing it all the time and then of course
there's like a props team and a set team and a art department and all of that to to make a studio shows quite different to a wildlife show but it's the same principle in that there's a lot of people a lot of moving parts to make it to make it off the ground it's good fun yeah I feel like we need to combine this with some way of doing science documentaries so you've got I don't know like sort of scientists in different parts of the world trying to do the same experiment at the same time
and racing each other to get to the result first while someone in the studio commentating on it almost like the Olympics of a science experiment which everyone finishes first or gets the best result you know is that your vision for it oh I have no idea I mean how do you define the best result it depends on what you're looking for right it could be like the most accurate structure of this Crystal ever or it could be I don't know finding the least harmful way to cure a particular cancer fought
in the back on one of our previous episodes I don't know I don't know what it could be it's a work in progress but it also has to be something you could do live live is stressful I recommend no one does anything live if I had my all pre-record everything it'd be more interesting though you'd get some genuine reactions of scientists just getting really fed up with something and throwing tools across the room or getting really excited when something does work and jumping up and
down which you couldn't really see in our documentary because we're all wearing face masks because of covered so the producers like guys next time you get some um some results on the screen can you all just like wave your arms around or something you're telling people that aren't um actors or aren't Telly presenters to be animated on camera is difficult to like get people to genuinely react like when we had it a little bit at the zoo because they are zookeepers like that is
their job they're not actors they're not television professionals so yeah to get genuine reactions is difficult and to get someone to repeat something in the same animated manner is sometimes and extremely hard they were all lovely and very very good to work with what would you say is that is the way in to if that is something that people are interested in in storytelling with a visual or video medium I think if you want to work in Telly then there's lots of ways in
but most people would start as a runner and that involves basically emailing running yeah sometimes it's actually physically running but mainly um emailing production companies and saying this is who I am this is what I'm interested in this is what I can do I really love that show you made about Japanese scientists I'd love to work on something like that have you got any availability Forerunner in London and that's how lots of people get jobs is emailing Talent managers and producers
at those companies and being like please hire me and here's my CV and I can drive and I'm you know I've got a masters in this or I've got a degree in that or I just really am passionate about cars or engineering or anything most people would start as a runner you can also do a degree in any subject really and then go into Telly that way and say I love art or I love history and I want to be involved in that sort of a show but Laura's once is much more Niche I
wouldn't necessarily know how you got to that point sometimes I'm not entirely sure I think it was more just having a Passion of science communication and talking to other people about their work because when I was asked like could we do a documentary about this research they said it was because I was interested and I was Keen that they asked me about that I mean that came about because I interviewed them for someone else's podcast and then I wrote a Blog about their work and then I just
kept talking to them not pestering them just kind of having this conversation like what is what I've written is that right could we phrase that any better or can I do another one about a different aspect of your work so if you're interested in just science communication you can easily start your own blog you can easily start your own podcast and then it's just about making connections and talking to people and just finding someone that's interested or has some
funding or has some signs that they want to talk about and you can make that collaboration happen David Attenborough used to say there's no excuse like everyone's got a smartphone now you don't need millions of pounds worth of fancy equipment or the best camera or audio setup you can record your friend on your phone talking about wombats or engineering or nuclear fusion and you know post that on YouTube or post it on Instagram or Tick Tock or anything you know it can be very quick and
straightforward it doesn't have to be a big BBC production or even a 10 minute documentary it can be a 30 second Tick Tock it still is still valid science communication yeah and there are what thousands and thousands of videos out there on YouTube and Tick Tock and whatever else of people doing something similar so you can pick like which one of those do I like and which bits of it would I want to do something similar as in my own style of communication yeah so
if you look at what they do how do they introduce it how do they talk about their results or whatever it is how do they conclude it do they have introductory music do they have outtakes at the end something that's become quite a trend is life hacks or science hacks or they seem to be based on science and then they're wrong what do you think is the sort of role as well of like being truthful versus entertainment or monetization I think you have to think about what you're trying to do are you
trying to tell someone three facts about wombats let's say in which case you need to make sure that those facts are right but also if it's just you on Tick Tock messing around no one's gonna hold you accountable necessarily you might get some comments saying oh one bats don't have six legs what do you want about but there's nothing necessarily bad is going to happen apart from some comments about what you're saying but if you're doing it on a huge scale like the BBC or Nora's
um documentary you want to make that right because it's your credibility it's your reputation or the reputation of the company that's on the line so yeah obviously companies have a desire to protect themselves but if you're showing something to millions of people chances are at least one of those people is going to be like that's not right and then that's where you get sort of complaints and all of that sort of thing but yeah there is a lot of misinformation out there there's a lot
of fake science is not really the right word but you know what I mean in that you can say anything online and it's up to you what you believe yeah and I would say anything you see here or read on the internet you should question does that seem correct how can I fact check that so if you watch one Tick Tock video talking about wombat then you look up what do wombats do and a lot of those facts that were mentioned on Tick Tock are in there then you know chances are
that person was just doing some sort of entertaining video that wasn't necessarily factually correct and they'll just kind of lose credibility so just I just personally I wouldn't pay attention to them because they're peddling untruths and you can fact check the stuff pretty easily I mean the internet is a pretty incredible resource in that you can Google you know typical behaviors of a wombat and get loads of response and if three or more are saying a similar thing then you've got a pretty
good idea of what's actually likely to be happening and what's not yeah or if you know about to expert I can find a wombat expert at the University or a zoo or elsewhere that always helps I really hope they're all back but it's out there just waiting to be asked just hoping to to stop the spread of wombat disinformation yeah because anyone if they love their research and they love their home but they'll want to talk about their wombats absolutely so I think that's a good place to leave it
we've covered a lot of what it takes to make a documentary but have you got into it and also how else you might suggest others to follow a similar path if you like this conversation or any of the other ones come find us on social media it'd be great to hear your experience or views on what we've discussed and also have a listen to our other episodes so this is the last episode for 2022 really happy to end the year on the note that we've reached 5 000 downloads thank you
all for sharing it with your friends family students teachers and we'll hope to have a great 2023 we've got lots planned and I hope you have a good rest of your year thank you bye [Applause] the views expressed in this podcast belong entirely to the person that said them they did not represent any industry or organization if you enjoyed listening to these views it would really help us out if you could rate US leave a review and tell a friend this podcast was sponsored by no one but if you're
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