Technology is really impacting our daily life sometimes without us knowing. And it's important that we start understanding or relearning wise ABCDEFG in the future of business or future of work. It's very important to know about technology, whether you are Technologies or not. There are many usage or use cases of technology that are non-traditional. Non techie, people needs to learn and know how to use them. Hey everyone. My name is Henry Surya with Robin.
And you're listening to the tekhelet Juno, the show will be bringing you the greatest technical leaders practitioners and thought leaders in the industry to discuss about their Journey ideas and practices that we all can learn and apply to build a highly performing technical team and to make an impact in your personal work. So let's dive into our Journal. Hello, everyone. This is Henry Surah one. I'm back here again with another new episode of the tech lead.
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help me towards producing. Sing great content every week for today's episode. I had a fun conversation with Jim limb. Jim, limb is the founder of the socio-technical network. 59s defense has the healthcare sector lead for NCS and previously, the CEO of good doctor technology. If you're wondering based on the episode title whether we are going to relearn how to spell the alphabets worry, not as the ABCDEFG are only the shorthand
for a set of modern immersive. That are rapidly affecting our daily life and sometimes without us even knowing or realizing it ABCDEFG stands for AI, blockchain cloud data, ecosystem and 5G. So in this episode we are going to hear and learn from Jim on how these set of new technologies have impacted and are going to impact our life in
near future. Jim also shared with me his unique Multicultural career Journey And the reasons why he started 59 St, Avengers as a way to pay it forward and contribute back to the society. I personally learned a lot from Jim about the 5G Technologies and the massive potential that it could offer once it gets more wide adoption and I hope that many of you could also benefit out of this episode.
If you liked it please leave this episode of writing a review or comment on your podcast app or social media channels those reviews and comments are one of the best ways to help me get these podcasts to reach more listeners and hopefully they can also benefit from the contents in this podcast. Let's get this episode started right after our sponsor message. Are you looking for a new cool swag? Taglit Journal. Now offers you some swags that
you can purchase online? These wax are printed on demand based on your preference and will be delivered safely to you all over the world. We're shipping is available. Check out all the cool swags available by visiting technology. No, dot f / shop, and don't forget to break yourself. Once you receive any of those tracks, Hey everyone, welcome to another new show of the technology. You know, today I have with me someone who is very experienced in the industry.
His name is Jim limb so let me read a little bit about Jim. His biography Jim is actually currently the founder of 59 SD Ventures so it's actually a socio-technical network company, focusing in leveraging expertise and experiences and connections of the senior Executives globally to contribute back to the society. I'll let Jim explain further
what it means by this company. He's also currently the Health Care sector lead for NCS, which is task to build digital Health, Care ecosystem, and to expand NCS footprint. Regionally Jim also sits in the board of startup companies. In China, Taiwan Singapore, India prior to this gym was the CEO of good doctor technology. A joint venture between Ping On
and grab. And before that, he was also Noble CTO in Huawei Technologies and all that, there are so many things from Jim. So it's really a pleasure to meet you and also have a chance to talk with you. You hope that we can have a great conversation today. Welcome, Jim to the show. Hey thanks. Henry, thanks. Thanks for giving me a chance to share some of my experiences. I think it's great to be able to be on your show because I heard a lot of good things about this
show. And many Tech leaders. Have you recommend drawing your podcast. Yeah. So that we can actually share some of our few about technology. How we actually get started in my particular case, I'm very interested to see how technology and sociology or You can be linked together and that is one of the reason why we found it 59 St. Ventures where s t stands for social technology is a social technology working of like-minded people since 2017. I'm sure it's very exciting.
Before we start in going into that area, maybe for you to introduce yourself to my audience first because I know I've read the autobiography A lot, but many people might not have heard about you. Maybe you can specifically mention, your highlights or major turning points in your career. Sure. Yeah, thanks Henry. So there are two parts I feel like we've similar coffee for to ite students to my alma mater, which is what wrong institution and also poly students before and University. Yeah.
So there's two part of me. One is the corporate titles where, like you mentioned, I am founder of this 59. See Ventures that. Well, I work for NCS as the healthcare sector lie. I was founding CEO of good doctor technology, which is a joint venture between grab and others and I work for Israeli company. I work for Indian companies, I work for Accenture which was endless. Consulting.
So these are my corporate titles and I play different roles in this corporate world, but when I talk to the students, usually, how I like to introduce myself, is that I'm actually a Globetrotter who likes to try many different things. So, I have two slides that I will send it to you. But these slides, when I present, I actually usually start with. I started working as an intern in Telecom, authority of Singapore. Today is called. I am da that's back in 1997.
So, I start building applications for the company during my internship and I Also found that company during my University day call home run network switch. Today you look at all the web searching for home. Where is it a property? Or some others? We were like the for founder back in 1997 to do something
similar. I think the biggest Foundation that was built was when I was in Anderson Consulting, I joined year, 2000 in Anderson Consulting before he changed his name to Accenture on all 10101, which is the 1st January 2001. So essentially I spent about five and a half years there. If you ask me, that is my strongest Foundation is all about exploration and Foundation Building. There's a lot of hard work resilience.
You probably have heard that working in consulting, firm like Accenture. That's a lot of late hours, long hours, weekends and so forth. And you are supposed to work with people who are much senior than you. We talked to the sea level to drop out strategy to transfer technology to build systems and we have to leave. Even during my time when I was like, only 23, 25 years old, have to lead a team of people who much older than me from the
client side. So these are a lot of learning and you have to really learn how to get the knowledge of many of the people and become yours and improvised, and then because, you know, what is the to be systems or to be processes. So you can actually leverage on and digesting, breaking down information and becoming yours and giving them good advices.
So, I will say, Accenture in a Consulting room built, very strong foundations of my analytical thinking because I was involved in multidisciplinary work from Work technology, were organization performers, reorganization design, and strategy. So there's a lot of Foundation Building during that part of my career, of course, at the same time, I maintain some of my weather, is it live core values which also extended to my career for my school days to essential
building. So things like how will and resilience to Perfections pay forward. We actually learn a lot from our seniors weather. Is it during my school days or accentuate days? Some sea levels that so Oh good. You probably cannot repay them enough. So one way that they have touched me do is to pay it forward. If you cannot repay, someone who is more senior than you and much more established because you are not there yet, then one way is
to pay forward. That's why I'm not sharing as an industry Mentor for young, and you see currently and also University. Yeah. And of course, in a sensual, we do large system implementation transformation process work. That one is actually a lot about teamwork and team spirit. So we learn how to work as a team. At the same time we win, we want to win together with the clients as well, so we win is another
core values. Last but not least entrepreneurship, because we are doing a lot of things for the first time. Nobody in the world has done a certain system or process, that's where the entrepreneurship Spirit needs to also happen in the corporate world. So, if you ask me, I highly treasure my days in Accenture, although it was very tough, then I move on to what I call establishment establish myself. In the industry, getting known to companies and get Hunter and
the same time. There's Reflections and achievements as well because every time I achieve something I will ask myself what I can do. Can I do more? Is this what I'm doing right? Or am I doing something wrong? I have more learnings. So that's a lot of Reflections after I left Accenture. And I want to expose myself to Multicultural, multi disciplinary multi locations.
So I spent about 15 years traveling outside Singapore, most of the time from joining companies like Indra it was called Mahindra British Telecom. So he's an Indian and British or Venture totally different from an American, Singaporean culture. Then I join em dolls which is really Jewish car company. Most of my Management's are from Israel or they are Jewish. So, again, it's totally different. Direct culture as compared to indirect culture from the Indian, sell things.
Then I draw a Chinese company, like, what way, which is, what is known as a wolf culture, then I joined pinion good doctor, as the founding CEO for the driver. Ensure with grep in Southeast Asia. And then now I have events. Yes. So if you ask me, I try to experience very different culture working and trying to assimilate myself into the environment so that I can learn. How was it like working for Indian how was it like working
for Jewish and so and so forth. And I think that part of learning at Treasure a lot because I don't want to just work for a single culture, a single way of doing things because I believe the world is made of many different races cultures and everyone have different ways of achieving. Success. So I want to learn that.
Thanks for sharing that. I mean I'm very impressed with your a lot of experience and the key that I pick up here, you seem to chose this path where you want to embrace, multiple culture, multiple countries and multiple backgrounds. Maybe you can share with me, for example, what made you make the decision like you wanted to try out, different cultural background and things like that because in this era are we are integrated in Multicultural systems in most of the world and
also diversity. Inclusion is sort of key message now, right about embracing this Multicultural thing, so maybe you can share a little bit. Why did you make that decision and how that nurture you to become you yourself at this
point in time? Yeah. So actually to be very honest, I didn't think much, but I was also a little bit concerned because people like myself graduating from a Singapore University for our Bachelor Degree, we always try to take the comfortable path, especially I was in Accenture Andersen Consulting, so Can always join like a Singapore company or American culture, that's where many of my peers do and then you will be used to it. But to me my life motto has always been YOLO.
You only live once so. Yes, I can take the traditional path, same as everybody. But I think I have some kind of risk taking my set in me because I was actually a Malaysian. And then since h13 actually come out all the way by myself, live in a hostel and study Secondary School in Singapore. So from there, I like to mix with different types of Of people and I did, although it's mainly salvation. Then I start wanting to see, how does the world really looks
like? Yes, I can be working for an American company of Singapore and Company and be sent overseas. But I may not really always understand how it's like working with the culture itself. That's why I took the plunge and say, let's try at that time Opportunity. Knocks one of my exes Central manager. Say, why don't you join Tech Mahindra? When you drop it, you stay calm
and try it out. You will get to the old Indian world to see how is it like I took the plunge and go for it and then subsequently Opportunity Knocks again, Israeli company or thinking, okay, I can never understand how it really well and they are not many Israeli company hiring in Singapore. Also. So I thought, okay, it was a very nice try. Let's go for it. So I took the plunge and try.
Of course, I can tell you it was very tough for the initial months, trying to know how to work with Indian because they speak a lot of Hindi and other different languages in India. They are many different languages. Even with the India same thing, For is really a culture is very direct culture. We in Singapore. Usually is a little bit of direct and indirect so it was quite a shock to me too exposed to a very direct culture.
Also, although I like it now because it makes things easier and it's really, really very smart people. The Jewish are very smart people. It was very good working experience to learn from them and Spa with them on your ideas. I would think that actually got many good ideas working for Israeli and Jewish, actually, when I was in Indian and Israeli company, I already what we call we we become Partners at some time. We're competitors. So I read a lot because I'm very
familiar with Chinese culture. But getting in the way and work inside is still a different experience. So all in all, I would say, I didn't think too much but maybe because of my background since young that I was able to come out all by myself live in the hospital. Not knowing everybody. Stop making friends learn how to leave in a totally foreign countries and environment.
So I took the plunge it was time for so but I learn and I always reflect back when I was young, if you got 13 years so you can do it, why can't you do it? When you are 20 30 or 40 years old? So I'm sure like all these experiences and seeing it for yourself, it gives you a lot of different perspectives and I think that's what the world currently needs as well because some are trying to come and close the country right from the outside influence and
perspectives. So, I think like having this Multicultural View and perspectives is very important at this modern time today. So thanks for sharing that. Another thing that I picked out from your Introduction. Just now is the concept of pay it forward. So you mentioned that you have received a lot of good guidance, from the seniors, the executives and not necessarily, sometimes you can give them something back just to express your gratitude
or you know to say thank you. And the concept here is to pay it forward to the people, maybe best senior than those people, or maybe sometimes Junior than you. So maybe this is also a good time to explain about the 59 St. Avengers I'm sure is quite related. Maybe you can share a little bit but this pay it forward thing. That you mentioned. Yeah, sure, thanks Henry. So yeah, definitely 59s Adventures. One of the Moto is also paid forward.
It all started in 2017. Me and my Jesse schoolmate. We wanted to take part in and u.s. competition, which is a socio technical challenge to see how technology can be used to improve the well-being of society. So, that's where we actually took part, think of a name of a company and jump in. I have to tell you that we didn't win the competition but Carl decided a is very interesting because we have been working as Technologies and we always say, okay, let's Implement large-scale systems.
Let's transform a company and so on and so forth. And in recent years, digital transformation is such a Hot Topic, but we also realize, yes technologies will be useful, but if you can use technology to benefit the larger society, there will be even more meaningful. That's where we also start realizing because when I form in 2017, I was 41 years old. So stinking already.
Okay, I have seen my uncles. My seniors, I've seen people who are older than me or even people who are my age being either retrench, or probably they retired. Some our retiree in their late 40s because they are rich enough to retire. But then, if you ask me, it's quite a waste of your talent experience and network. Many of these people, I know including many of the sea levels. They retire at 50 years old. Then they start retirement work golf.
Okay, that's fine. After a while the also few 8, you cannot keep on relaxing every day. So that's I actually thought of it, why don't I gather these people? I know who has a lot to offer and we offer as a social networking because I was we probably at that time so I can set up a company to do that. And I also did not have the time.
So we form a social techno networking where I get many of the retired sea levels or some strange, people who have good experience and networking or people who just want to look for a change. So we gather them, we discuss a lot. We start coming up with ideas so you slide, social networking, nothing much being done, until Till 2018 where I was a mentor in the treatment of all young and Toc. And I met a serious as proposed. Prostitute catch on. He recognized that a you have a
lot to offer. I'm very interested to know what we can offer and then I start talking to them and did some presentation where, I mean, the seven at that time and then they realized that. Okay, although we are so sure, University, as you assess but it's important.
They also understand that it's important for the people whether is it a currency Market. For and so forth to learn something about technology that's where I started as myself and subsequently bring in some friends to SPSS and subsequently to anywheres to me and Paulie and some others, universities or institutions and even giving talks to ite to share. What are the things that people can use technology for and this job in very well in today's world.
And also today's topic I want to talk about ABCDEFG because we also realized that technology is just one part of things. Many ICT professionals. Look at technology as Technology. Yes, we always come up with use cases, and business value, but at the other day is still about technology and about kpi's, but actually many of the technology we are already using today's world, and many of them actually can make an impact life decide. Today, many of the it companies,
or ICT, companies. The big ones are talking about sustainability, United Nations have what we call the sustainment lead Eco sdg sustainable development goals. So I think people are recognizing that You need to match and Mary technology together with a bigger Society benefit. So this drowsing very well if 59s debentures photo as well, you don't waste no ways or minimize waste. So the knowledge, the network and a brain of these people p Mets.
Also, they actually has a lot to offer and contribute. So we are not wasting any of their talent experience and networking and we use that to benefit a younger generation and that brings back again to pay it forward. Kind of off of vision. So you mention St. Social technology. But what is 59, is there any meaning behind it? Okay. Yeah, so it's very interesting. What we call it 59. There are many reasons, first of all, 59 for those in the
telecommunication industry. You know what we always call 5959 is a carrier, great 99.999% of availability. So it is something that very trustworthy, right? 5:9 in a calculus area grid Network. Very Also with the downtime is very many of mice so that's what we hope, our self to be trustworthy minimal downtime. And also, I realized many of my friends where people turning from 59 to 60, is that age where people start thinking about common or retirement planning or some even retired.
So that's an issue that we see many people is treating as a turning point. Of course, at that time in 2017. Something interesting is that we read somewhere that 5 9 that means nice. Of me, is the day where elections are held and things are change. For example, Malaysian change Government after so many years for the first time on the 9th of May, if I'm not wrong, we also heard Philippines did the same on 9th of me. And also we heard Korea had the same, so it's like a moment or a
day of change. So we hope that people can change from a retiree mindset or people can change from a pure Technologies to look at things that benefit the society at Large. Both of those are people who buy go, five times is also a very high greater goal itself. So it all goes back to being trustworthy transfer D, but yet it's a moment of change and that's a lot to offer from a
five-night. Personally, I never tell anyone, but personal reason I was 41 years old in 2017, when we found it, five times as he Ventures 41 + 5, 9 is 100. So we hope that we can be like those Chinese always say, fine are logged in In a hundred year old shop or business. So, that was the reason. Wow, I didn't know that there's so many things behind that. Number five, nine. So thanks for sharing that, I'm quite fortunate to ask that
question. Because now, we know so many things behind the number 5 and 9. So Jim, you also mentioned the topic of our conversation is supposed to be redefining ABCDEFG. I thought I'm going to kindergarten class or something when you said that. So maybe for the audience here. Can you explain a little bit? What do you mean by redefining a B, c, d, e, f, g. Yeah, sure sure.
I think for those who are in the technology World, ABCD probably can be quite familiar with some of you, I think three or four years ago, and you ask where I was a fellow in the school of computing. We also launched a program which I'm a fellow with a face Advanced Computing for executive where profile Excel is the director as well. So, we actually launched a sand. We actually talked about ABCD
which is a I don't chain cloud. Out and data so many people talk about ABCD, but then I was talking to my knees and then I start realizing that actually, they are watching YouTube videos, which actually keep on singing ABCDEFG and there's some redefinition of that as well. So, to me, is that, okay? Maybe we should really learn, right? Not as redefined by relearn, what is ABCDEFG?
Because we hear about this nursery rhymes since young, everybody knows how to sing with sing for our children and our children also learn. But if we just say a for a Toby for boy, I think that's a bit of passe. We can match the young people, or the young things that we learn together with the more senior people. That's why we want to kind of redefine or relearn our ABCDEFG
done. Couple of seminars, few years ago before covid on this topic, I tried to make it less technical because I always feel that. Why we want to relearn ABCDEFG is that technology is really impacting our daily life sometimes, without us knowing and it's important. Isn't that we start understanding or relearning wise, ABCDEFG, and many people, I know who are not Tech, he's not from ICT industry, some our business, our accountants, I'm like a deal, but they always
feel that. Okay, let's leave the technology to the IP or ICT people, I don't need to know but I also realized that no actually in the future of business or future of work. It's very important to know about technology whether you are Technologies or not. What we are seeing in many companies that I work for or work with the people. Whether you're Counting on someone else. You need to use basic technology.
Some of them, even need to use slightly more advanced technology like AI chat box for customer service like blockchain when you want to do a digital certification so there are many usage or use cases of technology that are non-traditional non techie people needs to learn and know how to use them but that's right. We want to redefine reload so you mentioned the four alphabets ABCD which are for AI blockchain
cloud and data, what are they? The EF and G. Okay, E9 e people will think of it as e-commerce. So that's where many of us start from whether you buy from Amazon, you'll buy from, how about, from China and of course, in Singapore, Sharpie and grab and many others. They are kind of e-commerce platform, but you also know if you are in the techie world even if you're not, you probably also realize great ones to be a super apps. What is super apps, Super X means e many things.
It can be, e-commerce, he delivery be financed So all these are like, 'I if you talk to some of the tech companies that giants, like what we like Amazon at the other day, they look at es and ecosystem building because you need the tech companies to build applications. Build infrastructure you have the people who want to consume these services. So ecosystems of Partners of infrastructure providers or and consumers ecosystem of Corporations become very important.
So, I will Define e moving from e-commerce. Mercy, hell, he pay money, whatever, all the way to ecosystem. So, that's ef3. I kind of want to make it run. So, there's a lot of talk for the past few years even to now about five G. So, f g goes very well with 5G. And I'm one of the lecturer and course leader who created, many of the courses in anywhere else on 5 June. So let me repeat those again. Is for aib for blockchain. See for cloud.
Default data is for ecosystem and FG is short for 5G. Right? So if you don't mind, let's go through one by one. The ABCDEFG. What do you want to redefine for AI? Because AI is like hot these days. Everyone is talking about AI + ml. Usually together AI in ml. So what do you think that people need to be aware of on this AI? I think in today's world before we even start about what people need to know about it. I I want to share again like what I always say ABCDEFG.
Why I think everybody needs to know is because it It's affecting our daily life. So I don't know whether Henry are you using any of the AI function today in anything that you do in your daily life? Outside your work. I know you work for tech companies but outside of your work do you use AI in any sense? Yeah sure certainly. In fact as of this moment I'm using AI to block out the background noise. Sometimes my home is not so quiet, so I use that software to actually help me block out noise
is from my background. Yeah, interesting. So you have tacky so you definitely user of the technology such as I but a lot of people I talk to like someone family members who are accountants or lawyers they always thought Nola AI is so Advanced I know nothing about a i yes I know AI is robot. People always think a eyes are robots, but I always want to change this method for it's not AI is not robots. You watch Terminator.
Yes. Maybe the brain has some AI component but definitely robots and AI is not equipped robots. Probably is a physical form of some AI algorithms. Inside, yes, but it's not always equate. The other thing is that many of our phones do they? I think people know is that it has a, i capabilities weather, is it from AI to help you to take the picture nicer and focusing on. That's a smiley face or
something like that. These are a, I use cases for Photograph. Taking some of the phones like sound more advanced, Samsung Android phone. You can actually flash your camera on, let's say some food and you can show you calorie. So there's another AI applications and also you can Flash on boots, like a shirt or t-shirt or maybe a bank and a I will pick that up and stop comparing across the internet to find who are the ones offering
and at what price. So these are all AI that unknowingly we are actually already using in our daily life from using a phone perspective. And of course, I think the other case is some of us have smart home. Whether is it the Google? Or is it the xiaomi we are all using voice control of curtain. On turn on, turn off TV and all those things. So, again many of this have the AI built-in capabilities for us to be able to do that.
So these are all AI already in daily life and of course the more advanced one is to go into Enterprises where the most common one is the actual board. So Singapore is doing that. If you are a Telco subscriber, let's say let myself a single subscriber, you use a checkbook to do some of the customer service but what impressed me is about three years ago when I was in China. I think D it is The grep in China while they are AI. Customer service is fantastic.
It basically can solve all your problems, just talking to an AI. So the AI chatbot capably is really there. So these are what we already use and see in our daily life. And let's move into the more Enterprise usage. Which again for those of you who know AI has many applications in many different industry, the more common one again that we may be using as a consumer is AI in financial sector, many of
them. Mr. Fintech related. So you have your robotic process automation, which is something like automation of data entry work. So, that is part of using AI. I myself use a robot advisor in some of my investment. So, that's again, using AI algorithms to look at your past data and that analyze was the best investment based on your risk profile. I think a lot of people confuse a little bit between data analytics and Ai and many other things.
So yes, one of the key thing for AI to work is unique date. The data will help you to really program. It using the algorithms to look at what should be the actions to be. So in the olden days I would say five to maybe seven years ago when AI doesn't really have a lot of use cases. Yet many companies come up with what we call actionable insights. So data is there you do analysis and you always need to be able to use the data to do something and as where the word actionable
insights come about today. So people are more familiar with a I already together with machine learning or deep learning which is the learning capabilities that's built into the algorithm of AI machine. That is where people are working on AI. The other key one that I'm doing a lot, today is Healthcare in the healthcare industry, again from the most basic one, from a consumer standpoint. You look at AI triaging, Singapore, tele-health me.
Not have so much yet, but the one that are globally. Quite well-known, like Babylon health. And the one way I came from here and good doctor are the top two Global AI tele-health The actually do what we call a I triaging. So you answer a list of questions about your profile, your high profile, and then the symptoms and then at the back end, what really happened is that in health care. What we do is we cut out what we
call clinical pathways. So, we will say, okay, if you see symptom ABCDE responsibility de and all this, you can mix and match into a large file and then those data start collecting and then you will have a clinical Pathway to deduce that based on the response. To the questions are being asked, you are having diarrhea or you're having Dengue or you're having a problem. So this is where a, I use a lot of data to mix with the algorithm to come up with an
outcome. So, these are just some examples of using Ai and there are many more that will be coming out from facial recognition actually to tell you the truth in China. Now Primary School students also Learn Python Programming. So I used to learn what we call for the Mets. Integration differentiation love those formulas but we learn Maths for the sake of learning Maps. In China. They put all this F, Max for the Mets into AI. The stab at explaining.
How a? I and Max are linked very closely together, so there was quite impressive and I thought it was a very good idea to learn about AI from there. And of course AI. We all know that visual recognition voice recognition basically is a pattern recognition, is very good to use AI to start studying, and come up with an outcome. So there's the whole thing I want to briefly share about AI. It's all over the place in our
daily life already. There are many, many Enterprises Azure industry already using AI for various reasons and they will be more and more that will be coming up.
It's very interesting. Like you mentioned a couple of cases which I wasn't aware of myself, but now that you said it actually, I realize, oh yeah, yeah, it's behind all of them and we will probably see a lot more cases seamlessly integrated in our daily lives without us knowing because there are so many Technologies these days enable you to use AI easily. In fact like some Cloud providers also provide tools and Technologies for us to just tap into, right?
I'm building ourselves. So a lot of people these days are still think AI is a complicated thing. What are the use cases that I can use for a? I even some of them like afraid their job will be replaced by Ai and robots. Like you mentioned in the beginning. So what's your view on all those? How can we Embrace more use cases, where we can apply a, i and about the concern from people about AI taking over our lives, okay? That's quite a common questions. Even when I teach AI in school,
that question always comes. Ah, but our first today's will, you may hear about this term called ethical AI how to use AI in an ethical way. So, there are many considerations, first of all, if it is a mundane task, that is representative and all those things to be very honest, just like we have gone through, so many Industrial Revolution.
Just three years ago, we say we're Industrial Revolution, 4.0 so definitely, they will be some work that's going to be placed especially those that are mundane repetitive because you want to spend the human brain power to do. More creative and meaningful to improve the way that we are going to live. So definitely those work with your page. It's just like in the food Revolution one or two division of labor where you actually put people to do packaging in a supply chain or production line.
That is slowly being replaced by automation as well. So a are replacing work really is nothing to be afraid of it. Will come just like how we survived through in the past more than a hundred years to so many Industrial Revolution. The second thing is that I think how a i Can work together is that you don't need to be an AI expert to work with AI. As I mentioned, just now you can be a customer service person but you know how to use a chatbot to get your work done.
It's a chair but going to fully replace a customer service officer, the answer is no. So again it goes back to mundane and repetitive work for now and ethical use of AI. So it's a balance of many thing today. I may be talking to an AI to get my basic queries about my bills from a Telco for example. But if there is Dispute. Yes. A I may be able to handle some of it but they may be a need for human intervention.
For example. Okay, this is a highly loyal customers or this customer is raising your voice or maybe this customer. I really want to give something special because I'm running a promotion now so that's where human intervention will come in. Although you can also program it with AI but if there are too many permutation combination and a balance of keeping the work for the human that's where you will access the cost versus benefits.
So this is an example. And as I mentioned, the other key thing about AI is people are worried about data because AI needs a lot of data. Are you constantly 24 by 7 and watch offer a time machine? I think it's called Skynet in The Terminator movie. Basically, Skynet is AI watching over you. So, is it good? Is it right way to do? I don't think that a good answers yet, so there's a lot of considerations on that capabilities is there. But why do they were not all
under the watch yet? Because there's a particular use. There's a human part of thing too. Because The same thing. If you watch Iron Man Iron Man Has Jarvis Jarvis. Is actually his AI partner. I don't know whether you may watch some of the episode where Tony Stark, she scolded Jarvis for doing something more than what he supposed to do. So again, capability is there is how you want to balance that with ethical use of a I sell. Yeah, I'm sure going forward.
We as a human would come up with more and more solution with AI and also the important part, which is the ethical part of using those technology for good. So let's move on to the next character. Actor which is be blockchain. Many people associate blockchain with crypto a lot of hype these days because of the Bitcoin prices increasing and also decreasing a lot so maybe you can share a little bit of light here. What are some of the technology
from blockchain? The people should be aware of so I think yes Bitcoin actually maybe for good or for bad people is link function with Bitcoin but it's actually more than that we all know that so even Bitcoin is a form of cryptocurrency. So the coin does Be quick to cryptocurrency bicycles. For those of you who knows a bit of cryptocurrency. There is also a new coin, there is also many other different tell coins which some of that industry specific.
So I have n you call myself which are in the education sector people come up that so to some extent to make it in a layman term, we coin, you can consider them as like vouchers or Point systems that you actually can use it. But of course, this one has a trading kind of things. So that's actually the cryptocurrency and bit. Coin Block Chain itself as a very obviously large use cases and applications of that technology.
Today we are not seeing a lot of it because a lot of it is subsume on the Bitcoin, people are overwhelmed with Bitcoin that they forgot what blockchain is really useful. When I was in Korea, six years ago, they are some use case that was presented by Korea. Telecom about blockchain for food safety. We actually call that things like from Farm to mouth or farm-to-table. So in the whole supply chain of the food chain He actually
started from the farm. That's a fruit trees or your vegetable farm, it has to go through packing houses. Then he has to go to Transportation. He has to go through maybe even cross border where many of the agriculture may not be in lights in Singapore. You need to go to Korea, China Malaysia and then you knew process some of this and go to Distribution Center, then go to supermarket and reaches the customer on the table.
So, these chain itself has got at least seven to eight Middle Point. So the capability of blockchain is Really to ensure that every of this chain or every of this note or point, no matter what we use, it has the safety concentration inside. So how do you know the food, the fish or the vegetable or the fruits that you are going to eat? Next is safe.
They did get contaminated along the way or not so that is where blockchain can track the entire safety chain itself of the food distribution from Farm to Table. And how does blockchain do it? What is the technology using locking this? Actually what we call Tacky, we'll distributed ledger. So that's a lot of information sharing, and you cannot actually change the record in that whole chain itself.
So, if today I say, okay from Farm to a packing house, who is sending in the date, the time and the quantity, the volume, and even maybe the shape of the fruit, all this information will be stored in a chain from the farm, which will be passed to the next note, which is the packing house. So people cannot just change the record, like, you would do. It in a normal system where you do data entry and so on so
forth. So blockchain actually is secured from that angle and then it's open enough, it's like very similar to the new digital world that we always talk about P2P. So like GPS is giving you information, but there is this thing called ways which was an Israeli company that actually has a lot of P2P information. So I have so many people giving or telling me that okay. There is gem on ECP. You cannot get suddenly say that there is no jam on is EP, so
it's very similar. Sep 2 that technology as well in a blockchain world. So these are some of the things that blockchain can offer. I believe I think nus or some of the institutions are using what we call digital certificate as well. They were a time when people can forge their decree certificate and yes you can bring back to do what we call Certified true copy, go to the registrar and do that but how certified true copy is that the signature can also
be fake. So I think universities are trying to do digital certificate from the time. That you complete your studies, you'll go straight and you will lock anywhere and dose that this is the correct one and people can download and get a copy of that. So this will help to prevent all this for drinking issues. So by the same token not just your academic certification, it can be a product certification and many other things. Can be your trademark, registration can be your pattern
which is use a lot. So these are all the potential use cases of blockchain. Where you need even in insurance industry. People are looking Can I use blockchain to make sure that the insurance that I assign all the way to subsequently the claims and other things are correct?
Of course. It also can go into the media industry where in the olden days, we look at things like digital Rights Management. This can also be done in a blockchain manner and the most recent one that I'm doing is similar to health care insurance. So same thing. You want to buy an insurance, you want to submit their claims to the hospitals.
So you're trying to block chain entire patient journey of interaction from getting what we We call letter of guarantee from the insurance company, how can Hospital think that a this is the true L OG from an insurance company. And then after that the person do the operation, you want to blame. So you go and get Bill and you can go and get a hospital letter. So the insurance company will pay you the claim. But how do they can ensure that this is not for CH this is the
correct Insurance claim. So a lot of all these things, depending a lot of manual human handling and they may be possibility of forging documents. Change. And that's where the whole thing is. Being proposed as a blockchain now and nobody can really go and Forge anything along the way. So this is a very good use case of blockchain if you ask me or outside of Bitcoin. So yeah, now I know a little bit more use cases apart from the crypto and the Bitcoin.
So hopefully more and more use cases can be used for good for blockchain. Let's move on to the Sea, which is cloud. So many people in Enterprise as well, using the cloud technology and also, our phones enable a lot of cloud Technologies as well. Well, for example, saving your files, your photos and things like that. What else to redefine here in Cloud? That's like AI. A lot of people think loud is very complex. Why do I want to put on to Cloud?
But this club is ICT thing. But, again, I always like to remind people, you are using cloud in your daily life. When we have a Gmail account, when you want to go to Google drive to store your videos, and your photos. That is using Cloud. Already is a cold storage capability. And then you do collaboration, Using Google docs. There is cloud capabilities.
So those are already happening to us, which we may not know, some of you may be using Microsoft 365, that is what we call software as a service is true Club as well. The most common business model of many of this application is what we call starting as a freemium. So you use as a freemium and if you want to get better quality services or software or capabilities, you pay. And that's where the subscription model when the monthly yearly for Access software service come about.
So again these are some of the very good example of cloud that we are using and some of the non-techies may not know that we are already using. Of course, if we look at Cloud itself in the Enterprise perspective you mean by many computers and some of that serve as your server so that is the way that on-premise actually work.
The same goes to the data center, Big Data Center where you have a lot of servers and storage and site but in the cloud way for the Enterprises you probably no longer need to buy a server. Some of you. HD want to do it for various reason biologically. You do not need to use it. So we always think that cloud technology should promote SME business producing capex and controlling Opex preview. All, unfortunately, a lot of SME
may not be tech savvy enough. So all the SME not really exploiting or exploring the benefits of what cloud
technology can bring to them. There's something that I'm trying to promote quite a lot, which I'm of The Institute of Higher Learning and even some the government agency, because we really think that there, A lot as, I mean, can benefit from going to Club, but the same old concerns people have about Cloud security every day we hear about hacking of this car and that car apart again, hacking can also happen for your server and your
on-premises is always there just that because a lot of time, all these will handle by the it departments. But in Cloud, a lot of the it functionality are in the hand of the actual business users. So people start becoming worried, I'm not. It trained a I got pack, what should I do? But that Where you have many of these called company. They are also very focusing on text flirty to make sure that's okay.
Another very common question. I'm always asked, oh, I put all my customer database on the cloud. My competitor. Also use a cloud. They will see all my customer, I'll lose all my customers. So again, that's not true, right? The cloud providers, whether is in the western cloud or the Chinese cloud provider, they all treat data security and it won't see very well because that is their bread and butter. So I don't think that needs to be worried.
And instead, if we look at Cloud, I'm sure those tacky knows we have public private and hybrid Cloud. I'm also in the called security Alliance, Singapore, chapter apart from looking at Cloud security.
We also do a lot of research area and one of the research area, we are going to do this financial year by our research director with the CTO of one of the local conglomerate is to look at hybrid Cloud, because we realize that many people have a private club in Singapore, many Enterprises and slowly and
steadily. The public cloud is getting some traction, but And we also realize that okay, you have these two clubs now, especially fall as a government agency, I want to maintain a privacy and for all my internet or internal Enterprise applications but I need to start exposing my services to the public, the eServices that people can do in the digital government World. Whether is it to one more touring for land transport or is it true telemedicine?
Health app, like Health Hub, that is linked to clusters of hospital. So you need to have the eServices Extended to the public, you cannot keep everything in a private Cloud, so that's where a lot of mixture in a hybrid Cloud manner is going to happen, not just in Singapore, but all around the world as well. So that's from a cloud perspective, for those who don't know what screw about, we already share it.
Sound a living example of clouds, mainly in the storage and application area, for those who are very familiar, Cloud one or key Trend. We are seeing apart from security is definitely in a hybrid, Cloud manner. So that some of the key things I will say that we should be aware about County. He's and I'll say months or years even. So having worked in the cloud business model as well. In one word, cloud provider, I'm sure like the target market for these cloud is still very large.
In fact, many people from Enterprise point of view may not be putting a lot of things on the cloud so I'm sure we will be getting more and more Enterprise going into the cloud just to tap into the capabilities and yes, you're right probably the hybrid cloud model and also the security will get into play when that happens more frequently. So, The d stands for data. If I'm wrong data has been around for many years if not decades. So what do you mean by
redefining data here? So like I say, Rita is very common. We all have some kind of data or our profiles. Are some paper. Of course, when it comes to data unit, a crow people usually get to Big Data. So what is more data, Big Data, make a detour or whatever. So, just very quickly that's
what we call unstructured. And structured data Big Data really is trying to analyze Too many of these different types of data and what we call Co beta, to be able to get the gala, I mentioned just now actionable insights.
So this is some part of a big data analytics and of course the other key word is people will say data is like the future oil where you need to do like oil refinery, we need to get the data, which is the raw material, and then you do refinery, which is your weather, is it analysis or so? And so forth to be able to use the data for some purposes.
So, data, I think it's a very People concept with all these information, like, a different form of the data, we can extract, we can analyze, we can refine it so that we can use it for all the things that we've just talked about AI. You need data for a, I do really make something meaningful out of all the applications blockchain, not many people link blockchain with data but yes, blockchain is also trying to change or ensure that you have a secure distributed data flow of things
as well. So you also need data inside. For cloud again. What's the purpose of having clock? It's basically because your data becoming enormous, and then you have to do a lot of analysis itself. So, the cloud provider, is it a storage or the computing power for the AI algorithms, to Grant on different Big Data itself. So, this is actually where data actually adds lots of value to the whole technology world.
And of course, we haven't talked about e, f g. And I can even extend all the way to H. I J K L, whatever. I can be iot. Okay, so things like this is that there's a lot of data involvement in different forms of the technology they throw. We can briefly also talk about data. How is it going to be like in the ecosystem or the eServices as well as in the 5/3? So let's go with the ecosystem.
You touch on it briefly like few minutes back so because people used to think about e-commerce or e, electronic something, for example, electronic payment, all the services that are available but you're talking about the importance of putting them together. Into like ecosystem. Does it mean that everyone needs to create ecosystem on their own? Or how do you judge between being part of an ecosystem or being the creator of the ecosystem? So like you mentioned is always
starting with e something right? Ecommerce e-learning, pay money transaction, he whatever he helped write. So that was where all the electronics, something and take place. And what I want to redefine me from all this, we shall still valid. If you ask me, depending on the countries or the industry we talked about about. So some countries are not there yet so they can still talk about East and for e-commerce some countries are more established like China today.
Nobody will go and talk about es e-commerce in China because that's like a given thing. But in whole China, people are looking at ecosystem building. So I was just talking to how we Cloud people this afternoon. Ecosystem building is very important because it's linking to even things like Cloud. So, I mean, of course, the Western powers are very established AWS will go and so, and so forth. And Chinese culture Alibaba is also quite established.
But we Cloud doesn't really have a big market share Global yet and they just form a cloud and AI business unit. Like few years ago, I think two years ago and now picking up hot Steam on that. So it's very important that they want to show. Let's say I want to sell and how we Cloud very important to have ecosystem building because in a cloud world, we actually call them sellable Services. Why do Enterprise want to go to a hallway Cloud versus let's say
Alibaba cow. They must be enough, targeted, sellable services for me to use. So, for example, Let's say I'm a healthcare provider. I'm a private hospital. I want to choose a cloud to onboard myself onto. I will look at which of this me have salable services for me to use plus things that are in a six ecosystem. Let's say, for example, or we cloud has five tallied and nonstick startups who can provide either integrate, the three-in-one spo2, blood pressure and ECG monitoring.
And today I'm Telehealth platform or I'm a private hospital. I want to get that services. So of course, I can buy from the company, but today's many of these applications or services are already on some form of cloud. For example, if this company only is available in how we cloud and, like you so much, then I will unblock myself to Paris Club so they can use it. So this is what we call the ecosystem.
Building today is an ecosystem selling even for cloud, that's why you can see all the cloud providers, the more established one always have, my use cases and also by by the industry Solutions. That's where the Enterprises Really looking at things, no longer just on the simple compute and storage covers, the whole system building is very important for cloud and for many other Advanced Technologies.
It's interesting, like, you see it from the point of view, like cloud provider, but how about the smes or the people who are not into the cloud? Is there any significance about ecosystem for them? So again, SME is not so Cloud native about ready yet, unfortunately, although I think they should but how I was Sell or how advice assembly is, for example, I was talking to someone and we quote, the example of mr. Bean mr. Bean is in Singapore selling soyabean, kind of food.
And in many MRT station, they have that is to some extent an SME so they can benefit from cloud and they can benefit from ecosystem building because I was listening to a webinar by the founder. The chairman just two months ago he was saying that. Okay, do-do covid, they will never doing e-commerce. They need to build an e-commerce. A bit. So they were trying to choose a card provider for that because it takes a long time for them to buy their servers and built
entirely Collins from there. So they can use all the isps capabilities in the e-commerce in the Cup itself to build a Commerce. But they also talked of a I need my ecosystem because I need the solution. I need delivery, I need payment. Yeah I can go and do all these things myself but it's going to take time and money.
So if I can go onto a cloud which has an ecosystem of Partners who offer, Payment Solutions who offers Delivery Solutions someone who offer supply chain tracking all these things, which mr. Bean when they are in the traditional retail selling in the MRT Station, do not have but until they move into e-commerce kind of way or this ecosystem or partner Solutions, really benefit them a lot save time,
save money. So this is a very simple example of a SME, going cloud and leveraging on ecosystem play to really help them to grow their business, definitely makes sense. So, Now, we move to the last one, which is the 5 G, the FG. So it's a pretty promising technology. Many people are talking about it. There are so many use cases. Probably will be Unearthed because of this existence of 5G.
There are some countries who have adopted five G's, but I'm sure I haven't seen the whole potential how I can use 5 Jeep for myself and also for many people. So maybe you can help us here to redefine. What would be the future with 5G enabled? More widely? Okay, this is a Hot Topic. But maybe before that Henry, if I can ask you what is the generation you are in, when you first start using a, you a 2G person or 3G or 4G actually the technology to jeer was widely
available during the time. But I only started having handphone since 3G 3G, so you don't use the Nokia 3210, I use it, but it was not mine. So it's my parents nice night. Yeah. So we always talk about all this 2G phone, you have Representation right? Nokia, 3210 is a very famous one, but now you probably see that Nokia doesn't do phones anymore.
So that's how fast the technology will is moving the Telco. I think, people always link or this 1G, 2G 3G all the way to 5 degree with just phone capabilities. And I think many people today, may think that 5G is all about faster, speed faster, download speeds, and I can watch my video, much faster. I can all look like you do, much faster. I think that's what people We are expecting or 5G.
But if we look at it that way for 1G phone where people may remember what we call the darker that phone like a big water bottle where you can even hit someone. So that is enabling the mobile technology so you can do mobile communication instead of your home fixed-line phone. So that's 1. G 2. G is like the Nokia 3210 when the killer application is SMS. So, everybody remember when 3G 4G come everybody? Say one cycle application, nobody knows so SMS.
Of the hottest collaboration in the 2G will actually. I started using it was to gyro I actually implemented when I was in essential 3G, in Singapore, implemented 4G in Taiwan. So there was a lot of learning their 3G was very interesting because then we start to realize a can do data mobile data. So I can serve internet although not fast enough but I can surf internet. So just now we talked about data again, right? So data is a time where 2G actually does a lot of good for data.
Where really you Make full use of data and making it meaningful and mobile. So 3G is a world of data or Internet and 4G is a world of video. So that's where we start saying stop putting static websites or putting apps that are just photos by you need to do video. Yes, we have YouTube for longest time. YouTube was surviving on internet on website, but later on with 4G, with better data, you actually can go into video streaming and a lot of all these apps and social media.
That's where I was at, in the 3G world. Killed idd called, post your user ID, call nowadays. So things like this. And this probably precisely the reason people think, oh, it's all about faster speed because that's what happened from 2G to 3G 3G to 4G. So, five years, it will give you better speak. But as I teach my students in 5G, if you say you attended my family calls before you only need to remember, treating, you forget everything. Remember trading, there's this
thing. I call it 5G, capabilities, triangle. So, there are three capabilities that 5G will offer to us in this world. N is for we call EMB enhance mobile broadband. So enhance mobile broadband. This is the one that gives you your faster speed better to put sand everything. If you take five minutes to download something on your 4G phone. Today tomorrow takes you less
than one minute. So yes, this is the one that we will get and this one we will even extend it further into a rvr because you will be able to do 3D looking doing virtual reality games and shows doing sport tourism. So that is where EMB be capability. Offer you apply that to other capabilities, that 5G can offer. That 4G cannot one is what we call, Em MTC, massive machine type Communications MPC is something that is very similar to iot today. Internet of things.
For those of you who know what's Internet of Things is actually in a mental or sensors connected with each other, even in your smart lamp, post that kind of thing. They will turn on turn off according to the people working pal walking by, or the spot metering that You have in your hdb flat so those are iot. So, in future will, we are seeing that they will be more, especially thing about recording the smart nation and in some of the companies called connected
world. So, you are going to have a lot of these sensors. Like from home is a smart home, talking to each other to a larger City that's talking to each other. So, there are so many things, so, many Communications, only data that needs to be communicated here and there, and that is where the 5G capabilities and a bow is. You can. Imagine 5G is like Pipe. This is a big enough pipe where
you can have many data. A lot of data that's going to float around inside and be able to contribute to this massive machine type communication. Because if you have a small pipe, the tribal get choked not just human talking to each other. Now, machine also talking to each other. So that is MTC. The last capability is you are LLC Ultra, reliable low latency
connection. This is again something special for 5G because from a simple case of the, our gaming, you may get GD. Because your latency is high, the latency not low enough, you will have some delay for example, and people in feel giddy. So by the same token. They are a lot of remote work. That can be done in a healthcare. It would be like, remote surgery in other industry. It can be remote. Education. How to ensure that it's very smooth.
Like when you play a video on Zoom there is latency it's not as smooth overall, normal Network, so 5G enabled, ultra-low, reliable low latency that you can A lot of this remote work without delay and it's very important because you imagine autonomous driving your delay. In communication has to be submitted a second. It is too long. You may hit the person and kill the person already. Remote surgery, something even going to do Singapore with let's say a small rural area in one of
the rural country. If I have not enough good low latency my one second here we translate into one minute over the other side and the patient may die already. So these are the things that at ultra-low latency is very important. So 5 is a big topic that's a lot. We can talk about that but I'll just say that as a beginner and even as a key takeaway for 5G, know this thing called 5G capabilities, triangle.
It was from int to zero and three key capabilities, EMB be and has mobile broadband and MTC, massive machine. Type Communications. You are LLC Ultra, reliable low latency connections. Wow, in my mind I Already think that so many things that may be the future. What we saw in movies will be enabled by the introduction of these 5G more widely in our daily lives. Thanks so much for sharing all this. I know our time is reaching to the end.
So maybe before we end that, just one last question that normally I ask all my guests so Jim. Do you have technical leadership wisdom that you want to give to the audience for them to think about and maybe adopt in their lives? Normally I would ask three. So do you have three technical leadership wisdom. Yeah, sure. Maybe the first First one, I will say not many people think about is communication. A lot of people think that we are tacky techies.
You just need to go the techies way, which is accuracy and build systems and Implement things. But for us who have done digital transformation, business transformation, run large complex system integration project. It's actually all about human communication, of course, in future, you need to any machine type communication. Communication is very important to ensure that Everything that was trying to do from a technology world is communicated, communication is to way.
It's not just, I tell you something. So, it's communicated is toe and understand by the receiving party. So I'll say, communication is very important as at a bleeder. Don't just go the tacky way, you need a communication. Then, the second thing I was thinking about is just like, any leaders. You need to be bold enough and daring enough to try new things.
Today's world, there are many many new technologies like what we go. Oh through ABCDEFG and there are many others, even things like Quantum, Computing, and many things that's coming out and then the EV and all those cars. So you need to be there enough to try new things and some of
these may turn out to be not. Well when I first started the good doctor it's very difficult to convince Singapore to do AI tragic because we still want to do video calls but I can tell you I launch grab Health in Indonesia within six months. Yeah so I think the willingness And daring to try something new. Of course considering all the risk factor is very important to keep Innovations, going for technology players. So, in this case, that's where we also see apart from China.
We can even see people like me though is and to some extent Africa, leapfrogging the technology because they don't have so much baggage has and Legacy as compared to some of the more developed countries. So they are more daring and willing to try. Actually when I was in my way there's a company in Connecticut Company. So the digital payment in Kenya is very well established much more established than of us outside of that country.
So say we link and daring to try new things so that you can LeapFrog. Technology is very important as a tech leader as well. And the last but not least is when we talk about a I just now as well. And the data is the ethical side of things and I will want to mention ethical and social side of things jobs back with what I want to do, as 15 is debentures. So don't judge. So technology because it looks cool. Don't just Implement technology because it looks cool.
It's fun. And all those things, those are important. But at the end of the day, we should always think back how this technology can help people. So for example, our say this whole year or last whole year, I've was focusing a lot on eldercare. Not many people are focusing on that. People are asking a, these people are out this. Yes, we have an aging population, we have a silver tsunami, but why do you want to do technology for elders? First of all, they may not know how to use it.
Secondly, is that your Roi may not be very high because a life span is not as long yes to some extent? Yes. But at the other day, if you want to have a better Society, you should look at how technology can help to bring a better well-being to the society and Elders is one part of it and we are all going to be Elders one day, right? So the were more selfish note. I'm also trying to see how can build technology for Elder Care, so that I may be the one who can benefit from it when I grow
much. The in couple of years time. So I think, look at how technology can bring good social benefits to the society and the well-being of human claw. These are my tree or say key takeaways as a technique that. So, thanks for sharing that story. I think the story of the social goods for the elders. It means a lot. Especially, yeah, I'm thinking that I'll be going through that age myself. So having those Technologies available by then we'll be great
as well. So, thanks Jim for all the time that you spend. So if people want to connect with you or know more about you, Is there any place online my Lincoln? So you can search for Jim limb, you will be able to see that. You can Google me, whether Gimli man CS or Gimli more way, you'll get a lot of my contacts and, of course, our past you, my personal email, as well. You can email me. Shan Mian Shi, enmi, n @ gmail.com. Thank you again. Kim, it's a pleasure to have you on the show.
Thank you, very much, Henry for your invitation and very nice talking to you very Interactive. Thank you for listening to this episode and for staying right till the end. If you highly enjoyed, please share it with your friends and colleagues who you think would also benefit from listening to this episode. And if you're new to the podcast, make sure to subscribe and leave me your valuable review and feedback. It really, really helps me a lot in order to grow these podcasts better.
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