Episode 273: Research Behind Great Teachers

Megan's in her master's program , working on educational leadership , and she brought this article and this research to our attention and we're like we got to put that on the podcast .

It's absolutely fascinating and I hope that you'll enjoy hearing our practical advice for what you can do to facilitate this growth for yourself and your teacher community right there in your own school . We are diving deep in with this one . All right , let's go ahead and get started . Hi there , caitlin here .

Our mission at EB academics is simple Help middle school ELA teachers take back their time outside of the classroom by providing them with engaging lessons , planning frameworks and genuine support so that you can become the best version of yourself both inside and outside of the classroom .

So if you think you might be ready to try something new , because you know you simply cannot continue the way that you have been that I'd invite you to take a moment to check out the EB Teachers Club , the EB Writing Program or the EB Grammar Program by visiting the links in the description of the podcast .

We hope to continue to support you within one of our programs in the future and in the meantime , we look forward to serving you right here on the podcast each week . Welcome back to the Teaching Middle School ELA podcast . It has been a wonderful February here on the podcast .

If you're new here , we are just 10xing everything in 2024 that we're bringing on the podcast . We even got new mics . That's how legitimately serious we are about this situation of just bringing you and creating incredible content on the podcast . You have not had a chance to go back and listen to some of our episodes . We've talked about the science of reading .

We had an interview with two Stanford professors on a feelings-based approach to literature . We talked about admiring annoying behavior . Last week on the podcast , jessica shared about her experience at the Ron Clark Academy . I mean all kinds of incredible stuff on the podcast this year .

But today we're going to be talking about the research behind great teachers and the episode actually came about because Megan , our co-host who's here ? again today . Megan is in an educational leadership program right now and she was like , oh , I just read this really great article about great teachers by John Hattie and she shared the article with us .

I was like , dude , megan , we got to talk about this on the podcast . So that is how this episode came to be . Megan , I'm going to kind of hand it over to you to speak into your coursework and how you stumbled upon this and really what we're going to get into in today's episode .

So by the end of this course I will be certified to be a principal , which is a wild thought , but it covers everything from supporting teachers with instruction , how to hire and develop and retain teachers , how to interpret data everything a principal would need to know right .

But the first course I was actually enrolled in and I'm thankful for it was called Instructional School Leadership , and kind of at the heart of this course was introducing us and then reviewing the most current research on the best instructional practices , and then also how to kind of observe and give teachers feedback to help them improve their teaching practice , and

so it was really powerful . But within this course , I was introduced to John Hattie , and he is an education professor and a researcher , and I wasn't initially familiar with him , but a lot of my colleagues were , so I think probably some of our listeners will know some of his work , but I'll give us all some feedback or some background on him .

So we're all kind of on the same page . But he's been a professor of education and a director of the Melbourne Education Research Institute at the University of Melbourne in Australia and he's actually written two books . The first was called Visible Learning and the second was Visible Learning for Teachers . And basically all of his research he's done .

He's sought to answer this question what works best in education ? Like what actually impacts student learning and I think for any of us in education that's our goal right is like to get students to learn , yes , to grow these great human beings , but like to help them learn .

And so what he did , what we're particularly going to be talking about today , is this research he did where he ranked hundreds of influences that impact student learning and he ranked them from very positive effects on student learning to very negative effects .

And I think we'll link the article in the show show notes so listeners can kind of see this , because there's a really cool table . But , like with all of these influences , there's a hinge point of 0.4 . And so anything above that hinge point is going to be a positive effect on student learning . Anything below that is a negative effect .

And I mean there's hundreds of influences on this , so they range from vocabulary programs , spelling programs , enrichment , play programs , just simply exposure to reading motivation in schools , reduced class sizes , I mean it's just a huge list so you can go look at it .

But the thing I took away when I was reading this article for my course was the influence that was at the top , because I think it's so novel , and that influence is something called collective teacher efficacy and I'm going to explain that with that means . But I just want to reiterate that this ranked far and above class root management .

It ranked far and above giving feedback to students and we know those things are so important . But I think what is unique is this was the thing that was far and above anything else and I think if we get this thing right , everything else will start to fall in place in education . And just to give you an idea , collective teacher efficacy ranked at 1.57 .

So the hinge point is 0.4 . This is at 1.57 . So it's hugely positively impacting student learning . So what is collective teacher efficacy ? It is the collective belief of teachers in their ability to positively affect students' learning outcomes .

So it's not just one teacher having confidence in their ability , but literally the entire staff believing that they are the cause of student learning . It's really interesting . So , basically , a school staff that believes together that they can accomplish great things is paramount for the health of the school itself . Is what ?

How do you found and taking it a step further when at E-School has a strong collective teacher efficacy , it seems to actually encourage individual teachers then to be more effective in the use of the skills they have and then also develop skills to become even better teachers , right , which we know is going to affect students .

So how do you note that it's teachers working together and I'm going to quote here to have appropriately high , challenging expectations of what a year's growth for a year's input looks like , fed with the evidence of impact ? I'm going to unpack that because it's a it's a wordy little statement that he makes .

But , right , we've got these students in a classroom for a year , so we're giving them a year's input .

What we have as teachers need to have is high expectations for the growth that can happen within that year , and then we need to have evidence that what we're doing is working right , and that's where the data piece comes in , and I think sometimes that data word comes with a negative connotation .

But I don't think it has to , because I think if we look at data from a perspective of look at what we've done and celebrating it , versus like this is what we need to do , I think it can kind of change our perspective on the data piece .

But how do you also point out the collective teacher efficacy is not like just this growth mindset kind of motivational cheerleading thing . Rather it's the combined belief of teachers that collectively they can cause learning in students .

You know it's it's less about the students and where they came from or what they learned last year , but , like great teachers can actually cause learning for their students . So he says when you absolutely believe that you can make the difference and you support that belief with evidence that you actually are and it's incredibly powerful .

So I get really excited about this stuff . But Jessica is going to kind of break , break arms down for us .

But I didn't have necessarily the words about collective teacher efficacy and I remember telling Caitlin because she and I were just talking about you know , my experience at RCA , at Ron Clark Academy , and I was like Caitlin , there is just something about the teachers there .

If we could harness their energy , their it factor , right , like what is it that they're doing ? And we can replicate that in other schools , like , oh my gosh , like , and that's really the mission of RCA , right , like that's why they bring teachers in there to come observe them .

But it's like you put it into words with this research and I just think that's so cool .

It's like you start with belief and then it changes behavior and then it changes environment and then it changes everything . But this collective belief is the key , that it's a collective thing , it's not just a you thing , it's a collective thing .

And that makes me think about great teams in sports , right , that they have a collective efficacy , they have a collective belief together that they are going to win . And that's where , like , really , I mean great leadership comes in .

You think about teams that were terrible , that were falling apart , that had ego , that have all this negative thought process and all this stuff , right , and a great coach come then , and a great coach can 100% turn that around , and that's Dionne Sanders at the University of Colorado .

If anybody's been following that story , whether you , however , you feel about him , right , it doesn't matter . What he's doing is remarkable . And it's this , this collective belief , that you can actually cause change . And so I invite you guys like share this with , share this podcast episode with your admin .

You know like this might be helpful for them to listen to , to and the value of creating that type of culture and environment at the school where you work . So I just those two things . I'm like dude , like it's , it's everywhere . It's not just teaching . I think it's like in every other asset in life .

Any other profession , any other job is going to be like this . We've all had jobs where you're like dude , the culture here is terrible . There's no belief that we're actually impacting anything , and a lot of it comes from the top down . A lot of it is based on great leadership .

And so , as a teacher , what can you do , especially if you feel like maybe you don't have great leadership at your school or maybe you don't have colleagues who have this belief that you can cause learning and students .

So we're going to give you like , a variety of things to work through questions to ask yourself , maybe questions to pose to your admin or start to get to , to work in this capacity or like , really , at the end of the day , a lot of the times for me it was about finding a great school , like Jessica , where we taught together like we had great leadership .

We had great teachers . It was a great community . I mean , that was magic , and to get to experience that from coming from a place that made me leave the classroom , I think there's a lot to be said about that too . All right , that's my little piece that's before we dive into Jessica , yeah .

So in Hattie's findings he said there is power behind the following three not three , the following several things the belief in impact itself , a culture of collaboration and shared responsibility , the main goal being student learning , having high expectations and an emphasis on continuous improvement .

So I feel like , Caitlin , you already touched on those talking about the school we worked at together and then I so clearly saw this when I was at Ron Clark Academy . Those teachers are 100% a team . They are actively working together to show their belief that their students are going to be successful and already are successful .

They are talking with each other in the hallways , they are meeting up with students outside of school hours , they are going to graduations and basketball games . They are showing their belief in their students and it's a shared responsibility .

Rca has broken into teams or houses , and each house is building each other up and getting together , like I said , outside of school to show that they are a community and there is power when they're all working together . And you better believe those teachers had high expectations for their students .

When I was in there , the level of the work they were doing was mind blowing to me and what those students were capable of , because those teachers had those expectations and it wasn't just learning expectations in terms

of . Can you identify the verbal in the sentence . It was in terms of speaking and listening skills and interacting with people on a daily basis . They want those students to be prepared for the real world . What does it look like to go into an interview ? How do you talk to someone and make conversation ? So many different life skills ?

What table etiquette should you have ? All of those things are at play in this school . To prepare students for once they graduate . They also have what they call the essential 55 . So it's like 55 rules , if you will , to be successful , and one of them is you know , look someone in the eye when they're speaking to you , shake their hand firmly and so on .

Right , those students know those essential 55 . It is posted on like it's not just a poster , you guys . It's like an entire wall in this school . It is massive and it's always being talked about . It's like they're non-negotiables . So , again , those high expectations are so present .

And then , because they're a school where teachers are coming to observe them literally one to two times a month , like their classrooms are set up like stadiums Megan and I actually talked about this on a previous episode but their classrooms are filled with hundreds of teachers every month just watching .

So of course those RCA teachers are continuously improving their craft . They are going out and learning , they are bringing back best practices because they know that these teachers observing them are then going to take that and bring it to their schools . So I just love that they're always improving their craft and bringing out like the best of them .

And that's really what I saw when I told Caitlin they have be it factor . It's because they were doing all of these things and sometimes I feel like we can't define it .

But I bet right now , if you're thinking , and maybe it's yourself or maybe it's someone at your school , but there's that one teacher where you're like , yep , every kid loves being in that person's class . The parents are like , oh , I hope my child gets that teacher . The principal's always happy with that teacher . That teacher just loves what they're doing .

That teacher has that it factor . So when we can kind of unpack what they're doing behind it , it's really cool and I feel like that's what this episode is about .

You know Megan said this already that teachers with high levels of collective efficacy , they truly believe that their efforts as a group can significantly influence student learning , like they believe that Right .

So just think about you know , boom , when you believe that something's actually possible , you operate from a different place , you think from a different place , you ask questions from a different place , like you're just whole experience in who you are and bringing to the table is coming from a different place . I'll give you a silly example .

But I ran a Spartan race recently and I of course not of course this is a self-fulfilling prophecy but I injured my shoulder right . But one part of it was you have to climb a 20-foot rope without any what are they called Like knots in it right Like the knots in it . Yeah , literally physically the most difficult thing I've ever done in my entire life .

But going into it , I truly believed that I was gonna climb that rope , like I was not walking off that course if I did it without having climbed that rope . And I believe that the only reason that I was able to do that was because of the belief that I convinced myself that I actually could , because physically that was incredibly challenging .

If anyone's ever tried to do that in their lives , it's a remarkable show of strength that I actually don't have a ton of upper body strength , but it's this belief , right , that extends beyond anything and , like as a teacher in the classroom with your students , it's beyond the influence of just an individual teacher .

It emphasizes the collaborative power of the entire teaching staff . So to Jessica's point when you are around that environment , right , it just breeds , I believe , greatness .

You know , and you have momentum with the team on something like you are all moving toward that finish line or toward that goal or whatever it is that you're trying to attain , and so I'm gonna give you some questions to think about , about the school that you work out of . Is this at play ?

You know , how does this show up , or what things could you do to maybe kind of invite this way of being into your school , maybe like in a little clandestine way , right , like an under the table way , like people don't actually know what you're doing , but you're doing this to help , right ? So think about these questions .

Number one how often do teachers engage in collaborative discussions about instructional practices , about student learning , about curriculum development ? Is this happening on a constant basis ? Are you in a silo in your classroom , like , do you actually get to work with the other middle school teachers with math science ?

You know all of the subjects , not just your ELA department .

Are there structured opportunities for teachers to share successes , to share challenges , to share strategies with their colleagues ? Probably not very often . I mean the school just can I talk about it ? We did get to do this , you know , and I think about just the way in which we run and operate EB academics as a company . We do this every single Monday .

We share successes from our teachers . We share feedback for improvement is what we call it . What are teachers not happy about ? What are they emailing us in about ? How can we get better ? What strategies can we bring into the team , into the business Every week ? We do that on a weekly basis , we talk about faculty meetings being a waste of time .

We should be doing things like this at our faculty meetings , right . Next one is there a culture of open communication and willingness to learn from one another ? When Jessica and I taught together , all the time we were in each other's classrooms we were observing each other . We're giving feedback , right ?

I think so often what we fall into the trap of is needing to be perfect , needing to be the best , and being afraid of feedback , of being afraid of not being great . And you look at some of the best athletes in the world . They have coaches . They're constantly improving their craft . They're constantly getting feedback .

Translate that into the education profession as well . Do teachers collectively establish and share a vision for student success within the school ? Maybe through some of the SLEs that we have , or whatever it might be ? But is it really a vision or is it like a checklist of things to do , right ? Yeah , for sure .

Are there shared goals related to student achievement ? Do teachers work together to achieve these goals ? You can't grow what you don't measure , right ? I love that we're talking about student test scores , but what are our goals necessarily for our students with student test scores . Is that what we're measuring success against ?

Is that how we're choosing to measure success ? Could we choose to measure success in a different way , with not just test scores ? To the point that Dr Deanna Smith came and spoke at our Batch Planning Live event . Why aren't we using joy as a measurement of success ?

Just thinking about these in different ways and different capacities how aligned are individual teacher goals with the broader goals of the teaching staff ? Do we all have collective goals together ? I don't wanna use this as an example here , but I think it is a poignant example of when you have a common enemy . Right , you have goals together to go after .

That common enemy Is the common enemy , like the state of education , and we are doing things together to push against the system . Right , as a team at this staff like this is what we're here to do . Right , of rallying people behind this thing that's bigger than ourselves .

Right , we have a mission , a movement that really moves and inspires people , our leadership decisions made collaboratively . And is there a sense of shared responsibility for student outcomes , or is it not a collaborative thing ? You really feel like you're on this island by yourself . How does leadership foster a positive and collaborative school culture ?

Is that even happening ? I've had some really bad principles , like let's be honest , and I've had some great principles , and this is one of those things that's at play . I just think of Chris Jessica . He was such an incredible principal . He was positive , he promoted collaboration Like . He built an remarkable culture at that school .

And there was definitely pushback , yes , definitely pushback , oh yeah , from the community at first , yep , and he just did a remarkable job .

We have a channel in our Slack channel called Glow , and this is where we will post teacher from our EB teacher community , their wins , their successes , their feedback , any positive feedback that a teacher has said about the work that we're doing . Because there's a team of 16 of us .

As the leader of this team , I've got to make sure that I'm breeding a positive culture here , and we do that by recognizing these wins and recognizing each other .

We might have someone on the team who created a social media reel right , and to be able to acknowledge them in our Glow channel as well is showing like , hey , this is your contribution to what we're all doing here . Even though it's a social media reel and may not feel like a lot , it's actually a huge part of our overall mission and vision at EB .

Are you guys doing that at your school ? Can you do that in your classroom . Is there a constructive approach to learning from challenges and failures ? As a group , we talk about growth mindset . For us , there's no such thing as failure . There is no such thing as failure . That's a perspective , right .

We can see failures as actually , this is a great opportunity to learn . This is actually giving me something that I didn't have before . That's gonna make me better . Is a challenge actually a challenge ? Maybe not . Maybe it's something that's inviting me to my next level of self . To what extent is there trust and mutual respect among teachers within the school ?

Do you feel that ? I don't know , man , some of the schools that I was at , I definitely did not feel that way , and you can . It's this undercurrent that you can just feel right . Is there a sense of collective responsibility for the success and wellbeing of all students ? And then think about the PLC meetings that you may have at your school .

Are they effective ? Do you see positive change in growth from there ? Or they just become one of those ? Oh man , it's just one more thing . This could have been an email . I don't wanna be here right , that whole attitude .

And I think that when we talk about all of this right , this belief of impact , this belief that you can actually do this , when we do this at EB right . This is a huge part the belief that the 16 of us on this team can have an impact on education .

We are constantly aligning to our mission , to our vision , to our why , so that we understand that the work that we do matters and that we can have an impact . We are finding evidence for that . We are showing that to the team right . It's an intentional thing that happens at every level and on a consistent daily basis .

. I feel like I was reflecting back on Chris again , Caitlin , and thinking of the time that instead of formal observations , we got to go observe other teachers in the classroom and that was like so different . I'd never done that in any other school I had worked at and I was like , oh my gosh .

First it took the pressure off of feeling like , oh my gosh , admin's coming to watch me . And then I got to go see all these other cool lessons and get ideas .

And I look back on that and I'm like , gosh , I got my favorite parade activity from going to watch another activity Then that years later became our literature parade resource at an EB and like all those little things , those little nuggets we get from other teachers , who knows you know the ripple effects from it .

And then I also thought of when you said about the faculty room , faculty meetings , right , and how it's a chance to celebrate successes and get ideas . But what happened so often , I feel like , was just teachers complaining in the back , right ? Or you're like , oh my gosh , I'd rather be grading right now . And it's like , what can we do to change that ?

So when you said , maybe share this episode with principals . I just love that because it's like , yeah , why do we have to put up with stuff like that ? Why can't we change the culture of our school and make it more successful ? So good , Megan , did anything come to mind for you that you wanted to share ?

So whether it's us as teachers starting to make these changes and talking to our admin about making these changes , or the leadership doing it like it's going to come from within and we have to again to your point , caitlin start with the belief that it can change . So that's just what came out .

Well , they aren't reviewed by Ed reports , so we can't use them . They must be a small business , they must not be legit . I'm like what kind of an attitude is that Right ? And I just think about that is real . That is true , nobody is denying that right .

But I think that when it comes from a place of this , this why , and this movement and this moving towards something bigger than us , when we , when we operate from a cause driven or a purpose driven or an impact driven , life , things start to just inherently change . Because we , what we talked about , was that , when were we talking about that ?

That I changed , so will change . Was that on this podcast episode At the previous , previous episode . Yeah , oh a student behavior .

But what do I do when I'm around those other teachers at school who put me down and I'm like you , just get to be a lighthouse for them . Because people have it . Really , if you want change to happen , they've got to realize it themselves . That self awareness on their own right Of being a lighthouse for other people , like it can .

It can start with you , and big movements do they start with one person with one idea who has this relentless belief that change is possible .

And I think about this Caitlin , like EB , would not be here , right , the framework , the lessons , the team , all of this community if we didn't collaborate together . Right , if that wasn't encouraged at our school .

Because it all came about with Caitlin and I saying , okay , we want to come up with a writing framework for our students , let's work together , let's make it happen . And of course , that meant check ins with each other throughout the year . It wasn't just , you know , one conversation , it was an ongoing collaborative effort .

So I just love this practice that John Haddy speaks into . So I'm going to ask you some questions again that you can consider for your own school and maybe even take it a step further , like if the first thought comes into , like ooh , no , we don't do that , well , what can you do ? How could you bring this to your school ?

What's one action step you can take ? And there's going to be a lot of questions , but pick the one that really hits you and you're like , yep , that's speaking to me .

So do teachers at your school regularly collaborate with colleagues to plan lessons , units or projects , or you kind of just do in your own thing and there's no like continuity between the grade levels ? How are collaborative teaching practices encouraged and supported within the school ?

I remember another teacher I worked with at that same school Caitlin and I were at . We wanted to do a project together and it took a lot of planning . So our principal made sure we had an hour of prep time just once . Even that's all we actually needed in the end to work together and he had someone cover our classes .

That was huge and then we could do this fifth grade first grade activity that the whole school attended . But it was just asking our principal hey , can someone cover our class ? I know that's a luxury , but hey , it doesn't hurt to ask , right .

And then my high school is still doing that . I was just talking to a junior there the other day and they still do it and it's like that's my core memory from junior year . I just love that . Is there a platform or system in place for teachers to share resources , strategies and successes by reinvent the wheel ? What can we share with one another ?

That goes back to observing each other to get ideas . How are effective teaching practices shared among teachers in middle school ? What if five minutes of your faculty meeting was dedicated to share the best thing you did this week ? I know we always go back to Chris , but that's what he had us do . We got smart boards in our classroom .

I'm totally dating myself because that was many , many years ago . He said , okay , at the next faculty meeting , I want everyone to share what's the cool hack you learned or what's the cool activity you did with your students . We all took notes on each other's ideas and now we had this playbook of things we could do with our smart board .

Our teachers encouraged to observe and learn from each other's classrooms . Again , ask your principal if you can go in and watch someone . Our teachers empowered to take initiative in addressing instructional challenges . What do you do when something's not working in your classroom ? Who can you go to for support ?

Maybe it means hey , I saw that you had a really great writing lesson and my students are just struggling with justification . Do you mind coming in and teaching my students for 10 minutes and I could just watch you and get ideas . How could that change things ? How does school leadership actively support and promote a culture of collaboration ?

That might need a nudge from you to go ask your principal . If you're not seeing that , ask them . How can we get more collaboration here ? Here are my ideas . Or listen to this podcast . Is leadership responsive to teacher input and suggestions regarding collaboration ? Let's hope they are , but maybe , again , some need some nudges .

Our teachers encouraged to adapt and customize resources based on their students' needs . I mean so often , right ? We go to a school and it's like here's the textbook , and we all know there's those teachers who , just I'm , read the literature unit , next read the next one , next answer some questions .

What if we had time built in to customize those to create more memorable experiences ? What would happen with our students ? How is reflective practice encouraged among teachers ? Again , do you ever spend part of your faculty meeting talking about a lesson that didn't work and getting ideas from others ?

And then is there a culture of continuous professional growth through reflection ? I remember being in the classroom and it was like , okay , everybody has to go to one PD this year and it was kind of again a checklist .

But what if you really got to seek out amazing PDs , like going to the Ron Clark Academy , like coming to Batch Planning Live , whatever it might be ?

What if your school had a whole book of ideas for you to look through and it became an exciting thing and then you brought that knowledge back in because you were fired up about what you learned , not just because , oh , I had to get subplans ready and go to a PD .

And I just I wonder yeah , we talk about time and all of these things and a lot of this is to a reality , maybe outside of our control as teachers per se , but I do think that when we start to ask questions as teachers , to incentivize or possibly put a little what is it like ? A little thing in someone's ear ? What's it called ?

A bug , A bug , A bug .

That's like you taking a small initiative toward promoting collaboration without me , even your admin , knowing that that's what you're trying to do , that that's what you're out to cultivate , you know .

I taught religion , I was at a Catholic school and I did a saint draft with my kids .

doing and engaging with their schoolwork ?

So again , some questions to kind of ask yourself , or ask leadership and the people around you . We're going to talk about PLCs here . So are there established PLCs where teachers can come together to discuss student learning assessments , data and instructional strategies ?

And again , I'm going to kind of encourage our listeners to reframe data , because data can look like a lot of things . Right To your point , Caitlin , like the success criteria could be joy in the classroom , Could be students actually wanting to come to class .

Data could be formative data in your classroom and you could look and say it First look what we did , Look what we achieved , Share that with your students . Even right , that's good feedback for you as a teacher , to know what you're doing is working . So don't let data and the idea of PLCs be negative , is my encouragement there .

Next , how do PLCs contribute to a culture of continuous improvement and shared responsibility ? Have your PLCs just become sessions of venting or one more thing on your schedule , Because I don't think they have to be that and I've been part of ones that are .

But how can we start to think about this improvement piece and the shared responsibility of all the teachers , believing that we can cause change and that our PLCs become that driver for us ? Right , Is there dedicated time for teachers to engage in meaningful professional conversations ?

Right , we need to be able to bounce ideas and ask questions of veteran teachers or even novice teachers who are fresh in the classroom , because they bring a fresh perspective . Right , we need to create somehow and I know time is an issue but time for those conversations .

How does the school encourage teachers to collaboratively address challenges and problems relating to related to student learning ? Again , all of our minds think differently , so I might have a different idea than Caitlin or Jessica does , and we need a space to share those ideas . Is there a process in place for teachers to collectively problem solve and share solutions ?

Kind of that same point , like we need to be able to create intentionality around problem solving and solution .

How frequently do teachers use data to inform instructional decisions ? I know it's a buzzword again , but it does help when you , when you see the effects of what you're doing , whether it's helping students or not , it should be driving what you're doing in a classroom .

Is there a culture of data analysis and a collective commitment to using data for continuous improvement ?

And again on this data piece , like I don't think it should just be the state tests , right , Like I think we can begin to think of data differently and using different types of data and different success criteria to really measure , like are we impacting students ?

Do teachers have the necessary tools and training to analyze student data effectively , which is really important ? Sometimes I felt like we would get our like NWA scores or state testing scores and it was just like here you go . I was like what am I looking at ?

So you know , also in the , it doesn't have to be a boring professional development , but just like giving teachers like here's what you could look at to see specific things that your data is , that you shouldn't see they're achieved or that they didn't right . So some specifics around data analysis .

Like constantly getting a feedback which can be viewed as data from our students that we can use and analyze to inform our practices that we're going to take in the club . Every student is like dude , this sucked . I'm probably not going to do that again , right , every student loves this one thing . Oh , I'm going to keep doing stuff like that , right ?

So using that qualitative data too . It's not just like star reading scores or whatever that's asking students silly questions that I'm like come on , are we serious right now ? Right , there are a variety of different ways to elicit and source data that can inform our practices of the classroom . It's a great point , cool .

I think I'm next with the last we have a couple more points .

We just pulled back the curtain from like what's the wizard ? Of Oz we have notes that we follow as we do a podcast episode .

They have reflective practices time , they do the data analysis like Megan was talking about , but they use this to enhance their collective impact , right ? So I want you to think about questions in terms of your school culture , your school environment . So do you have your PDs structured to promote this collaboration and the sharing of effective practices , right ?

So are we actually doing this on a continuous basis , right ? I think about EB and what we do every single week . We're looking at what we're doing . Is this working ? We're getting feedback right , it's a constant loop of feedback , of a feedback culture , of improvement , of being growth oriented . Right ? It's just how we .

It's a basic operating system at our company . Imagine if it was like that at your school . What that's going to do for you , what that's going to do for your colleagues , what that's going to do for your students , right ? And are there established learning communities and professional learning teams where teachers can collaborate on improving instructional strategies ?

So are we actually sitting down and looking at , you know , socratic seminar . Is this actually working in our classrooms ? Or some of the , let's say , jessica , for example , from the science of reading , those comprehension ideas that we were sharing right , like , say , you go implement one of them and are you getting feedback on that ?

Are you getting feedback from your students ? Are you getting feedback as someone coming and observing you ? This is something that I would do often as I'd be like , hey , can you come in my classroom ? I'm going to try this new thing .

We let me know how it goes , let me know what you think about my students , and I love that , actually , from a you standpoint of , like you going out and seeking this because actually , for your brain , what I think it does is for your brain , it allows your brain to actually receive the feedback because you're asking for it , as opposed to your admin coming in

and doing an observation . You're like stress and anxiety , oh my gosh , like blah , blah , blah , this stuff . So I think you preempting that is is is hugely helpful . And then , how are teachers encouraged to say , updated on current educational research and best practices ?

This is interesting , right , like I think about at our team , at team EB , we have people on the team whose job this is , to stay current on educational research and best practices . Right , I just think about when I was in the classroom I didn't have a ton of time . Right , when we can use time as an excuse , always like whatever .

We can have a whole conversation about time separately , but is there a way in which we can access current educational research and best practices ? That's not me necessarily going through a course at USC , that's not me necessarily having to go back and get my another master's degree or whatever it might be Like . Does that environment exist ?

What does that look like ? Is it just listening to this podcast episode , you know , and relying on other people to be able to do that legwork for you ?

So there's a belief that all students can succeed , and I told you I witnessed this at RCA when I visited like it was so apparent . And then teachers are committed to finding ways to make that success a reality . So some questions to think about .

There's just two To what extent do teachers at your school feel a sense of shared responsibility for the academic success and well being of all students ? Do you talk about your students in a positive way and say hey , I noticed that Harper did not do so well on her English test this week . Are you seeing anything in your class ? Is there something going on ?

Is there anything we can do , communicate with each other , so that we can celebrate the successes of our students when they are doing well and then build them up and support them when they need that from us ?

Next one are their shared goals related to student achievement and how are they communicated and I think this goes back to what you were saying earlier , megan of like . So often we talk about our goals being data driven . In terms of like , did we increase our test scores ? How much did students improve from last semester ? What if we shifted those questions ?

What if we asked different and better questions ? What would result ? What could happen to the shared goals of our students and their success ? And I think just shifting even that , asking different questions , will make a huge difference in your school .

What would this look like in terms of creating a school environment where collective teacher efficacy is actually present and thriving ? And , again , like we acknowledge that typically school culture is driven by admin , but I think teachers can also really take part in this collective teacher efficacy by interacting with other teachers inside their own school communities .

But also , like you know , things that EB provides , like this podcast , listening to this podcast , we have our EB teacher community , where we have teachers collaborating and sharing ideas every day . You know , pd workshops , just all of these things where you can start again to be part of this change that I don't know , I feel is happening in education .

It's starting , I really feel it .

On March 19 at 9 am , california time , where we're going to focus really on this . We're going to talk a lot about this research .

I'm going to share from my perspective , like a focus on leadership , what I think great qualities of great leaders exhibit , because really , at the end of the day , I believe that great leadership transcends businesses , transcends schools . A great leader is a great leader is a great leader , and what are those qualities ?

So , if you are interested in sharing that with your admin , like you know , you have a great relationship with them and you feel called to do that or if there's a way to like kind of slide a paper .

I know it's at 9 am , in the middle of the day , but we did that because admin are typically , you know , not necessarily teaching in the classroom , but I just , megan , thanks for you know , bringing this to the docket . I love that . He , megan's like I'm going to go back to school . I was like OK , sounds great .

And then she just started sharing what she's learning . I'm like this is beautiful . You know , we get 100% such a gift to be able to share this with our teachers .

So that was a lot , right , that's a lot of information , but I think at the end of the day , all boils down to and I love it , because everything in life is this is the belief that it's possible , right . And so you really sit back and you believe , like , do I really believe this ? And if you don't , you can at least tell yourself that it is possible .

And to Megan's point that she shared a couple of times of finding evidence and recognizing that evidence to show yourself that , hey , it actually is possible . And I'm seeing it here with actual evidence in real life , and your brain goes , oh yeah , ok , I guess it is possible . All right , we can do this . So just such a great episode .

Thank you guys so much for joining us this month on the podcast . March is going to be even better . We're going to be talking about a variety of cool things here at EB . Megan's going to be back with us and if you feel called to please share this with another middle school ELA teacher , share it with your colleagues .

I think it'll allow you to have these interesting conversations that maybe wouldn't otherwise happen if they didn't have the opportunity to kind of talk through and listen to some of the questions that we shared on the episode . So thank you guys , so much for joining us this week and we will see you next week on the podcast . Bye everyone .