Welcome to Tea Party media episode Eleven My name is Martin Lindeskoge. Hi Martin. Or numbness you say in Swedish.
Hi Martin.
Nice to be same name. The the warrior as you say. That's the original name of Martin nice.
I didn't know that.
And it's how do you pronounce your last name? Morrison.
In Danish I would say Mowitzen. And in English I'd say Morrison.
Morrison. I had a friend in New York called Maurice Markowitz and that's similar name. So we are here today talking about your new version. We could say pod friend. And I also often start out with some in a way to icebreak but also to get the party going. I have my tea here from China, like black tea that have aroma with mineral tones and a bit not smokiness but it's a character. But still it's very good daily tea that you could use but I bought at a tea shop in Gottenburg.
So I will ask you about what's your favorite beverage. Is it tea or is it some other beverage?
So it's not tea. I don't really like tea. No, unfortunately not yet. Not yet. My wife drinks a lot of tea sometimes. Good period. Yeah, it comes in periods I actually drink. In Danish it's called soft event. So it's like where you mix like.
One part juice and then concentrated juice or soft.
Yeah, exactly. And then you add water like five times water or something and then I drink that a lot. I have filled up my water bottle for this session and then I also always drink coffee so that's like you.
Could have like lingon berry or tran berries or whatever and then fill it up so that's good and coffee. And I would say that directly if you want to say your location. But I been to a very nice tea place in Copenhagen now, I don't remember the name but it was an old style tea shop but also a lounge, a tea lounge and it was central in Copenhagen and I really enjoyed that.
It made my day when I was sitting there and I got a teapot and good quality I think I had from India Tea and enjoyed it tremendously. So that's a nice that you have and you have talking about drinks. We will talk about that also party 1 bar called Hotel Central Bar or Hotel Central or something like that in Copenhagen that I got the tip from because they had a corporation in Gottenburg, they had this called in Latin the name is like spoon not coffee, but it's like a hotel boutique chain.
And they had one connection there in Copenhagen and very close there. So I went through the bus, this flex box bus and very central, so I knew how to find my way. But I have seen a list there and they were one of the top list in the world, I think even the best bar. And it was like designed and interior like British style, English style with mahogany this furniture, the leather furniture and this bar that looked very cozy and nice and classy and there I had a very nice drink.
Today is like I was talking about this because soon I will launch my so called lost site called Tea Party media and Tea is my favorite beverage. And Party is to having fun. But it could also be the historical thing what's happening Boston Tea Party in 73 and on December 16. And then also media is the domain where talking about new media.
So that's why I want to have this repetit and having repetition so you will remember it and it's also to think, focus what you are doing good life with tea, for example and to have fun, have party and also drink tea. And today it's what to say. It's the song that I will include in the show notes called Bitcoin Pizza Day because it's May 22 and on that day around ten years ago,
right? Yeah, it was a guy who wanted to buy some pizza slices or big pizzas, a couple of them I think for was it 10,000 Satosh bitcoins?
Yeah, 10,000 bitcoins worth I think $41 or something.
Yeah, but nowadays it will be a.
Bit more, a little bit more.
So they celebrate that. And an artist called Sean Smith Solo, I have interviewed him and he created this song called this Bitcoin Pizza Day. So I will include that in show notes. It's very upbeat song and we talk about blockchain and bitcoin and how we should in a light way and I really like that. So that's nice to celebrate that a few days before my birthday on May 25. So what's your party drink then, if you have a party?
My party drink? Well, it used to be Mojito, but I think these days it's just a nice good beer, like a lager or something. Yeah, I enjoy craft beers.
Yeah, me too. When when you come to Gottenburg, I will tell you about a place called Free. Small rooms that have very good microbros and you are not allowed to we have that expression in Swedish, I don't know how you say it in English but you're not allowed to buy a so called big strong beer. That's an expression for the general beer. That's a strong alcohol halt often it's back in the day it was Prips and Prips is now belonging to Vidani. Isn't that Danish colespario I think they own.
Yeah, that sounds true.
And then you have this other Big heineken probably the best beer in the world is Vermonto and I'm all for it, but it's like 90% of all beers out there is this regular beer and all kind of other microbrewers with some special taste are very small, but it's increasing. So it's good to hear that you like that kind of thing. I like my favorite is Margherita. It's a bit sour and sweet it's like tequila and then quantro with liqueur, citrus liquor and then lime juice.
So you need Tequila media as well.
What is it?
You need? Tequila Party media as well.
Yeah, that too. That could be harsh. And then the third thing in this domain name, tea Party media. What's your favorite social media? Or where do you hang out?
Oh, that's a great question. So that's actually mastodon. I hang out on podcast, index, social. I mean, I also have a Twitter account, but sometimes I forget to check it. I also have Facebook that I use just for private stuff, but I can just see like ten years ago I would check Facebook every hour. Now I will check Facebook. Like if I get a notification that my wife wrote me, I hardly check it anymore. Continue. And then I use instagram for reels.
I have a coworker and my wife, we send reels to each other and yeah, I think that's it. But where I get most of my daily entertainment is actually podcast index or social. And then actually I also use Reddit, but that's more for like if I need something specific, like some information, then I'll go into a subreddit on that topic and then that was good that.
You mentioned Facebook because now I will try to change the settings. It's in private, but where's the meter? So I will see if I could manage to do that. Otherwise it has to be where do I do that then? I don't know why it's doing?
Good question. I'm not sure I can help you. I think this is my first live show ever. No, actually I was once on the Podcasting 2.0 show, but that was when it was not live. So that was an hour or so delayed.
So it should be somewhere that you could put the settings. And that's typical now when you try to do multitasking at the same time, thera where is it? Are the ceilings? This is very good. Podcasting.
Running very much with scissors.
Yes. So private sets, secretes private. How do I change that? I can't change it. That's fun. Okay, you're missing out in Facebook. I managed to do it last time, but this is funny. So we are running live on Facebook, but nobody else by myself will see it but on YouTube and on what more YouTube and LinkedIn. But it's more like a test and we'll come more about live also in the near future.
So it's interesting that you said mastodon because I'm now getting it, but I must say, at the first time I saw it, I was thinking and that's leading into how you create an app. For example, for me it was like Master on. It looks very 1990s or something like that. I didn't get it. It was this dark background. The good thing is it's no algorithm, it's no stressing things. But on the other hand, it was like, what's this? I don't get it.
So it took me a long time, but it was good that I did it because I didn't rush into it.
But did you know that you can download? There's a lot of different clients from Amazon, some good, some not so good.
So that's why I'm waiting for the good reviews and so on, because I don't want to rush into it. I have so many apps otherwise, especially Podcasting 2.0 apps that I want to test, but I hear that it will come. Apps that are more similar to my Twitter or whatever that you're used to. But in a way I like to log in. And at one time I had to log in almost every day. And then if you have like hundred or whatnot,
it could be a bit to scroll, right? Yeah, but if it's really so called, not important, but if somebody tagging you whatever, you will see it. Yeah, you don't have to be stressed, but it will take some time to search for things and so on, but it will come to you. And I have a very, in a way, interesting mix of uses that I'm following. It's all over the place and all the spectra, political wise and whatnot sometimes I'm always like, okay, I don't like this.
Should I block it or should I remove it or should unfollow or should I let it be? I had somebody that comment on me that I was sharing something and then were coming on this Tea Party media and thought it was with modern Tea Party movement, like the political. And I didn't respond because it was so out of blue. And I said, okay, you could have that opinion, but if you don't really care to investigate a bit more, I don't have to respond to it either. So that's a good thing.
And you can't do even if I like it. But you can't retweet so called you can't repost quotation, like out of context thing. You can't do that.
No, I mean, you can boost things and covers the favorite. But I think Mastermind will also continue to evolve now that we also see Nostar, they're probably going to steal a few ideas from each other.
And I don't get noster. So do you want to say something.
About no, so I don't use Nostar. I've tried and I think I get how it works on a shallow level. And I did find like Adam Curry and stuff, and I tried to follow, but it didn't really work for me. No, I can't say much about Nostar. I saw some of the work that Dave from Podcasting 2.0 have been doing with the chat where he's using and I like that. I like that and I like the concept.
And I think as soon as we get for us developers, like some sort of class that we can just use like a framework so that we can implement it without knowing much about the technology, then I think maybe we can actually use it for live chats and things like that.
Yeah, and that's a good thing that you mention that because maybe that will come in. We jump into that directly because you were one of the early I've written that as a note here. Early adopter nowadays is it about 70 different application and services and not web hosts, but podcast hosts. And whatnot on these new podcast apps or new podcastapps.com also that directs to podcast index and the tab on apps or applications.
And then if you then click, for example, if your operating system or whatnot, you could also click on apps or applications, then it may be plus 30 or something like that. But you were one with Pod Friend, you were one of the first, right?
Yeah, I don't know if it was their first, but it was definitely one of the very first. I mean, I remember writing to Adam even before the Podcasting 2.0 podcast was live, because at that point I was creating Pod Friend and I was scraping the itunes API, which is very gray zone, legal or not legal. And certainly they had the option of turning that off anytime they wanted.
And then I can't remember if I found it through like a search or someone told me, but someone basically said, reach out to Adam Curry, he's building something you'll find interesting. So I wrote him an email and he then CC Dave and say, hey, can we give this guy access? And I was like, yeah. So I got access to the API pretty fast.
And then I think after the first episode, between the first and the second episode, I made an open source implementation that I put on GitHub that used the Podcast Index API that people could take and learn from and build their own applications. Yeah, so I made that and I think that it was a really good thing because it meant that other people could see, like, oh, this is how we used API, and you can actually build something real on top of the index.
And that was even before any new tax or the value for value and streaming bitcoins. The way I learned about it was basically through the index. And for me, it was a game changer because I could get much more reliable podcast information for the podcast app.
Is it like when I talked to Mitch of podverse, he said that he started creating his app because he wanted to do clips. Then it evolved. Why did you start programming this app? Was it for your own sake or was it that you saw that with all apps out there? I see that, especially like web browser, web browsed, but I see an opportunity here or why did you do it?
Yeah, historically my background is in programming and in my day to day work, I work as a product manager where I spend a lot of my time looking at product opportunities and stuff like that. And this time I would say I didn't really look at the product opportunity that much except just knowing that it was there. So it was for my own sake. It was actually because I listened to a lot of true crime podcasts and I had this idea.
First of all, hey, whenever they mention a photo or something and then they say you can go to our website and you can see the photo, I was thinking, why doesn't it pop up in my podcast player? That was even before the name chapter space. Yeah, exactly. Back then I just thought, oh, the only option to do it is proprietary, like doing it in my own app. But now the option of Chapters is there. And then it was also because I used Spotify for podcasting mostly, and I also use Spotify for music.
And for me it's two very different things. I use music, for example, while coding and I listen to podcasts while walking the dog or sitting in a bus, or even also sometimes at the computer, but not when coding because I can't listen to someone talk and code at the same time. But Spotify, I treated this as like one thing. So I kept being annoyed that I'm sitting coding and I press the play button and a podcast comes like, oh, now I have to find my music again.
And then I thought, let me make something that works better.
Yeah, and there you have this elephant in the room. So Spotify, I am a so called Apple fanboy, but I'm very critical to Apple in a way, in a constructive way. And as Adam said, itunes, that is now Podcast Index or Podcaster app, that's standard app on your iPhone, have been treating it in a pretty good way, but they haven't developed it at all. But Apple podcast or Apple Music, I know at least that the art is getting more paid than other places.
But when it comes to podcast, when Spotify was doing that one thing and this now have become a debate, how should you listen to a podcast? But I'm talking pretty slow. I think I could be exciting and talk quicker. And if people want to speed up and if it's a long interview, I think it's totally okay to have a different speed. If it doesn't sound strange and like Uber cost you could do that with and other applications. But then now on mustard on that been a discussion about that.
If you speed up too much, you get stressed. And they have a point there also. But on Spotify, because music, you should only play it in one way, right? If it was not vinyl, then you could play it around and have secret messages or whatever with the Beatles or whatnot. They were saying that they're doing special things anyway, so they didn't have that feature to play on another speed because it was based on a music application, not a podcast application.
And now we're trying to even have in the future maybe like audiobooks or ebooks and whatnot. And they really try as I have this expression and I'm for the free market, but they really try to corner the market to get everything. And the listener, as Todd Cochrane of Blueberry saying, the listener doesn't really care and especially the younger generation. Right. So here's a challenge.
So that's what I like now and I've seen lots of new podcast apps, but you could pick and choose and then of course, you could go back to if you favor some of the old ones. I mean, Apple podcaster app at the beginning that was not the best app, but they have improved, right?
Yeah.
But now I want really to focus on the new podcast app. So it's again interesting how you come up with this idea. And I could say that to maybe find my niche because as a new media advisor, I have to learn with different categories. And one of my things saying it's so called 4 million podcasts out there, maybe 500,000 are active. Is it 30 different categories? You have categories on your site?
Yeah, there's a lot of categories. I'm only showing a few of them.
So if you start dividing, it's not so much to compete with even if it's thousands of them compared to YouTube, whatever. So it's interesting. It's still open and still maybe in Denmark and Sweden often it's on the top list of consumption for one reason is like the Internet and the speed of phones and so on.
And also that this streaming thing that you could do, it pretty cheaply compared to others when they have their seller plans and so on and it could really be expensive and we don't really think about that. And then of course, maybe Spotify and others have been because it's one of the most used. So that could be one reason also. But I know, for example, that True Crimes and this kind of category is very big and one of one is it Podme.
I think you're thinking about a company yeah, in Sweden.
It's now owned by Boniers with big Publication, but they started with True Crimes and also that you pay for it like almost like an audiobook service, like Audible. Podimo you're talking yeah, that's another one, but that's one in Denmark. But Podme is in Swedish one. And I often have it as a case that you could really do this profitable and also charge money for it.
If you find your niche of listeners and they think like a podcast and it is a value, but they think it's almost like an audiobook and say, oh, maybe it's 100 Swedish crowns or 100 Danish crowns per month, it's okay if I like all this true crown. And when they got popular, they have lots of of course they have investors and so on also. But lots of paying members and then they could buy new shows and hire in order to have this content creation, like really slick production and so on.
So I see that market. But for me, as a so called sensitive soft guy, I don't like to listen to murder and things and all these terrible things. Of course I like Sherlock Holmes, I like Hitchcock, he was a master. But personally but I have to learn about it because it's a really big category.
Yeah, I would say maybe when I say I like True crime, maybe what I really like is actually investigative podcast, like documentaries.
So they want to solve a problem.
Yeah, exactly. And I think a lot of the.
Like this that I thought was so called, we call it Cornflex or Fling or in Swedish cereal. First I thought it was cereal, but not serious. And that was we could joke about that now again. Then it was when podcasting was booming because the mainstream media was writing about this successful podcast series that was very well produced and lots of new listeners because still maybe 50% don't know about podcasting yet. Even if it's hard to think about, it's still a market out there.
Yeah, definitely. I mean, sometimes we know about it and we are a bit in a bubble, right? Yeah. It's interesting when I talk to my mom and her husband, they really love audio dramas and audio books, but they don't know podcasting. They've never tried it. And I keep telling them, just listen to this one thing and then they're like, maybe, and then they never there.
You have one that I want to interview on our podcast, probably the secular Foxhole, because I know he's outspoken about faith and that he's an atheist. Evotera, that is one of an old time podcasters. And now he's very focused into the audio drama and so on. So he created his own website, is now focused on that segment. But he has been very prolific talking about Podcasting 2.0 and other things. So it's fascinating.
Speaking of Master, actually, I followed that guy. I don't really know who he is, but he kept sharing like irrelevant things and then it's just unfollow because it pollutes the timeline.
We will wave to Everterra. We could have a debate about that.
Maybe I'll follow him again at some point.
I think you should. And that's what I said, that I have this broad spectrum. I have people who thinks that I'm not interested in a way, but it moves on. And then he could write about like microbrewery and I like it. And as a fun thing, he said something about beef jerky and I liked that and said, have you tested this? And he said, could you send it to me? So I did it and then he posted it and it was very happy. So I liked that. But I understand what you're saying.
I have some that are as I call it on the edge because sometimes I'm almost there clicking because now it's getting out of hand, but then I take a breather and then it's gone.
Well, I certainly accept that people share whatever irrelevant things. When I say irrelevant, it's because I mostly use mastodon for podcasting subjects. But then when I follow someone that they may have posted something interesting about podcasting, but then when they ten days in a row post something about cooking recipes or something, then I'm like, okay, unfollow.
And then later they will get another chance if they share something interesting and someone else in my timeline likes it or something.
And I think that's a good thing that you could do it like that. And I joined his podcast index social because I wanted to focus on the podcasting thing and for me it was which should I pick and how could you join? I mean, still, it's it's an in a way challenge, but it's still early.
Days in the user experience that's yeah.
But it will, it will come around and talking about that then the podcast more your podcast app. So pod friend, how friendly is your podcast app? I see it's a funny logo type and a bit quirky with the tongue and so on. Could you tell a little bit about that mascot or what you call it?
Yeah, I mean, the mascot was actually a friend of mine and she made it for me because I asked her, could you try creating something fun and quirky? And then she made that and we're like, okay, that's now pot friend. So yeah, that's how that came about. And yeah, how friendly is it? Well, right now I would say there's definitely work to do and it's an ongoing project.
Right now I wanted the version two out there, but I definitely want to revisit every single page in the app and think about, okay, how could this be more user friendly? Of course, I have the challenge that I'm both on the web and on the desktop and on the mobile. So every time I make something, it has to work on all platforms. And it's both fun. But sometimes it's also a challenge because I will have this idea.
Oh, you know what? While the episode is live, I can just show the chat over here on the side on the desktop, and it's like, oh, but how would that work on mobile? Then we need an icon you can press or something.
And I was comment on that. Now we're going back and forth. But I was thinking about the interrelate chat thing that you could use and then I clicked and I asked about you on the mastodon there and the chat, if you could move that chat because it's popping up and I could listen. But if I move around or something like that, maybe I would close it down by mistake. So I've used this other that Dave had done for fun because it was very old school.
But what I'm clicking on here and they said something long, string and are you really sure that you want will you publish this on Nostril? I don't know, something like that. And I was what I'm doing here, I'm doing it right or not. So I like because interrelate chat I know from back in the day.
Yeah, so that's one area where there's definitely a lot of work to do, both in the concept that Davis made, I think I was to implement it in Podfriend, I would hide all of those advanced settings from you. Like maybe you would have an advanced tab somewhere where you could do some of those things so you could take your identity from somewhere else and move in. But if you don't know about it, it would just be a normal chat where you don't have to think about that.
And then with the IRC Internet Relay Chat you're talking about where right now I pop it up in a window as you said. If you're on desktop, for example, it makes perfect sense if it opened up in like an external window so you could move it around. That's definitely one idea that I will steal from you now. You're welcome.
And I must say that because I'm not a programmer. Back in the day I could so called program HTML, very basic websites back when you had to do it. Now I don't have to, so I have forgotten about that. But as Adam is saying, give the developers time and of course you could push them in a friendly way and so on. And now I'm joke that's why I wanted to have you on the show because you were one of our adopters and then others have coming around and it's really a friendly competition.
Yeah, it's easy, actually, because the new podcasting apps like podverse Pod Friend Curiocast or Pot Station, Fountain, all those apps, we are what, 0.1% of the market? And then you have the big players like Apple, Podcasts and Spotify that are, I don't know, 90% of the market. And then there are a few indie apps that do have some percentages, but it's like we're not competing with each other down here. Like the indie apps.
Well, maybe like in in the podcast in 2.0 space but that's that's friendly competition. But if we want to make it big at one one day, then it's really the Apple Podcast and Spotify users that we are after. And I think some people are happy being a very niche podcast like for Podfriend. I do work on the 2.0 abilities even though I know oh my God, only ten people will actually benefit from this or in the start.
And then as it grows it'll be more and more and then I try to balance it with more user friendly things like I have a long list of features that I want to implement and. Then I hope to one day make it more user friendly than Apple podcast and then still have all those features in. But there's a long way to go and I have a day job so I work on it like evenings and in the weekend.
And yeah, I think I have the advantage of just being one person with both product and developer and designer experience so I can move very fast. And yeah, I hope to keep that advantage and then I look very much forward to see where things will be one year or two years from now.
That's good. And I will now show for live T shirt here and it's saying Pod Runner. And it's not in a way it is a podcast. He is listed on a podcast I think he is hosting on Libson and that's Pod Runner and Groove Electric and he's doing DDA and he's also an author writing science fiction novels. And he has this that you could support him on a monthly basis like Patreon and PayPal and others I think maybe not patron, I don't know, but PayPal and then also you could buy merchandise.
But I want to introduce him to this value for value and what will happen in the future because he has to buy the rights for different songs or tunes in order to mix them right and doing different beats per minute and put it together. He has to have the rights in order to put this finished song or how do you call it, like a mix album on digital. So if he, for example, has one.
And I know that when I asked Robin Greenley when he was on Libs and if he had been talking to this guy pod runner now, I forgot his name, but he has. His newsletters I really recommend to check it out Pod Runner because there's lots of work to do that mix and buy the rights and putting it together with the beats per minute and the style. But then you also have this exercise or like mixes on different beats per minute if you're running or if you're walking or whatnot.
But if you could do like what Adam Now have done with this wavelake and also what is called now beats. Beats, yeah, now running up on the charge and so on because they are boosting it. This could be very interesting and what could come out of it.
Yeah, I actually spent some of the time today before meeting refining. So the new technology behind it is the value split tag where you define like, hey, this part of my show, the value is streamed to this other podcast and then they have their own value block. And I made it work in Podfriend right now, I think with like gaffer tape and a bit of glue. So I hope to release that before the Friday show so that you can also use Podfriend to do that because I think Steven from Curacast.
He's definitely been running with scissors there and I think having one more implementation will just lend more credibility to the sack.
Yeah, that's good. I'm very happy now I interrupt you, but I'm very happy to have used Curacaster also like a web. And he was so nice with Secular. Foxholes sent a small boostogram to him and then he put our show on the features or highlights. But again, with the design, I could say it's like black background and white text and I haven't got into it so much, but I like it, so I want to test different ones and then you could of course give positive feedback but also be patient.
And now he's working on this music thing. So it's very interesting how this plays around. So now on one of my screen, on my smartphone, I have I don't know how many of his new podcast apps there are and I test for different wings. Like for example, one I like very much when I wanted to have a clean interface and loading it because I have an old phone, I have an iPhone six S Plus because still you have a micro you could put the microphone in but not convert.
The battery is getting there, but that run very smoothly with podcast Guru. But now he is also starting with Value for Value. So it's interesting. And then of course, you could support different with do you have a premium feature also?
I do, not right now, but as soon as my app gets approved to like Apple podcasts.
Yeah, because that's a challenge to yeah.
And I found out with the version one of Podfriend that it was really hard to get it on the App Store because and they gave the reason oh, this could have been a website. I'm like well, today anything could be a website. Like I can recreate any app on.
A website and that's how iPhone and Apple have done it themselves. They have open it up to that.
It's a crazy reason, but I'm guessing that they are just it's almost like per default that they're denying new apps. Let them try a few times just to see if they really mean it.
Okay, yeah, it's interesting. And I will then try to get you to the split on this show also. But that also had been a challenge that I first did this Satushi stream and had done this checkmark and then I think it was James and then it was Dave and some others that helped me in order to get it. But then I saw Fountain coming along and I really could see, wow, this is so then I moved.
Yeah.
And now I like Fountain. But also I've seen how they have had some, you could say growing pain, especially on my old phone. I could see how it was very but I had lots of podcasts on it and so on. It's interesting again how it plays around and they have picked their way this friendly competition again. And then you have others that adding this LB and wallet. So I think everyone will be able to compete in a friend with each other. And then like this gamification the lists.
Now you could continue because I interrupt you, but with Pod friend being as earlier adopter. And then now you do this new big version. And as you said, it is web based, but it should be synchronized so you could use it also on a smartphone or others. But are you planning to have a dedicated application also that you will download or what's your thinking.
With the version one, I already had iOS and Android app. The iOS app was on test flight because they kept not approving it. And then I also had a desktop native application both for Mac and Windows. And I'm definitely going to do the very same thing. I already have the desktop app working and I think it will be one week, maybe two weeks until I have the iOS test flight apps out.
For now, it's just making sure that everything works on Web because then I only have one platform to think of right now. Because for example, one of the new things is that you can connect with Albie and for most people it seems to work and then there's a few that says like, oh, I couldn't get it to connect. And even the guys from Albie said like, I tried three accounts and one it worked and two, it didn't.
And as I said, again, it's these technical things. But I could say that I have been there also and I have to remember the password or forget the password. So now I try to get it into because I've had that also. But that's probably settings that I could change on podverse when I send a boostogram. Albie is asking me like ten times for the different splits.
Yeah.
Do you agree? Do you agree, do you agree? Do you agree? And A bling bling Bling, it's a safety thing and I could probably check mark something, but also to log in. Sometimes it's getting in this strange loop and you're out and in. But I agree because in a way it's a safety thing because an LB wallet is real money. Of course I don't have on it, but it's very lots of security things and so on. And it should work.
Right when I was topping up with fiat currency, the first time I used Blue wallet and the second time I tried to do it, it didn't work. And I sent an email, I sent a Twitter, no response. And then it was something about how to say sundown or they were closing down something, but I don't know exactly. Okay, so now with Moon, pay is working. Yeah, it's lots of things in place in order to get it.
And as Adam is saying, the regular person or Average Joe or Mr. Smith or whatever don't know how to do this, but they want to feel secure and safe and no strange.
Yeah. And it's interesting. Like the first version of Pod Friend, I used something called lnpay for the streaming. And what was really good about that was that I could abstract the whole idea of wallets and stuff away. Like you just had a Pot Friend wallet, a bit like Fountain, you have your own wallet there, so you didn't need to connect anything. And with LB, then you have to go off into this third party space and create a wallet and fill it up and then you come back and connect it.
And I think I'm going to explore going back to the roots where newbies they just have a wallet. And then if you're a power user, well, then you can connect your LB wallet. Okay, let's do that.
Because again, you shouldn't put everything eggs in the basket and whatnot. And if it's really a big amount, you probably should have it on your secure keys or cold keys or whatever they call it. And I'm not there yet. But with ALB it's nice that you could use several apps and it's connected to the same because that's the thing, if you have one wallet here and one there and another, it's starting adding up also. But it's interesting how this should synchronize and play around.
So it's nice to see what you're working at that and especially the synchronization. So could I then put you on the spot a little bit then? When I did a search on Pod News Weekly review. I search on the podcast. I want to be open to get the guest and don't do in a way I doing research and so on and we have each other a little bit, but I wanted to listen because you have been on Pod News, right? With long episode it was Mark esquitz and it was somebody else and you right?
Yeah, it was SAS Camaria from Fountain. Exactly.
So that was one of the latest episodes and I tried to find it on Pod Friend. I didn't find May 12.
Yeah, so, interestingly enough, it was actually because Sam Sethi I think made an error because he added it to the season one instead of season two.
Okay, that explains that's easy to do.
I have done, yeah. So it's not a fault of Pot Friend at the moment here you out.
There, Sam SETI and yeah, it's funny.
I think he did fix it now, actually, I don't know if maybe I'm cashing a little bit too hard there. So for you it still shows up on season one. I'll take a look at least. Of course.
And that was rearranged in a way it's good because then you could start as my co host of our podcast on Tea. That's a playwood word, so I say it in Swedish productivity, how to be productive and drink tea. So it's a made up word in Swedish. But Michael is that you should start from the beginning and then you learn the development of the podcast and the discussion and how you develop the podcast.
And you could also because when you start podcasting, when you look back, you always say oh, the sound or how did I talk, whatnot? But you have to start somewhere, right?
Yeah.
At your default is the oldest first. Right.
That actually changes. Okay, so if the podcast has several seasons, then it will start with the oldest first. But if it's a podcast that has no seasons but just a long list of episodes, it will show newest first. Because I'm making the assumption that if there's seasons, you want to start with the oldest first. Yeah, and if there's no seasons, then it's probably like a news style, like pot news or something and then you want to probably listen to the newest first.
So that's the logic I have built in. But if you change it once, then it will remember forever.
That's a good thing because again, I don't listen to so many even if I have codes. But we have season but that have been seasoned for different ways. Maybe you have a theme. So one called Victor in Swedish, important for real with current coach, that's a master certified coach ICF. So now we are season seven.
So every season has a theme beginning, it was the senses, it was the elements and now it's about very much about her coaching and also podcasting and how it's interwean and how it could work together and the networking. So the guests have been often in different business networks and how they have meet each other and how you could for example, use LinkedIn or whatnot, but also how podcasting could help you in different ways. So it's very interesting way and that have developed over time.
So after every season you could take a little break and a breeder and plan ahead. Because again, and I have challenged that also myself having a podcast and not.
Yeah, but it's like you mentioned that there are 4 million podcasts out there and some of them are active. But as I said, I listen to a lot of true crime, I listen to a lot of investigative yeah, investigative podcasts and stuff and and also, you know, some podcasts that are about, you know, as you say, coaching or something.
So they are evergreen like, like, you know, it doesn't matter if they're active, you know, if I find them and I start them, you know, from the first episode it still gives me value and as we talked about the value for value, why shouldn't I stream value to them?
That's good, I see the opportunity there. So do you want to talk about because in a way there is no such problem as this discovered problem. I know Rob Walsh at Libson saying that it's word of mouth but for small players it's hard to reach out. Often in mainstream media we only talk about, I don't know how it is in Denmark but in Sweden it's often these celebrities they are talking about or the big names.
It's hard with the independent podcasters but you could do it in guerrilla marketing in different ways you could reach out but you have one that recent plays and also popular or something like that. Could you explain is it so called an algorithm or what's playing there when you log in?
Yeah, I mean the trending I actually get from the podcast index it's basically based on how many people downloaded across the new podcasting 2.0 apps that's some generic popularity and then I have the latest listened in Pod Friend and that's only from people that are logged in. Then you can kind of see it's. Because the next step for me is to create lists and friends a bit like Facebook, so I can follow you and then I can have like let's say I make a list that's called True Crime or something.
Then I can have latest listens by your friends in True Crime. So it becomes much more social, I think, in some areas. Fountain also does it really well. You can see who boosts what. I definitely want to introduce some of the same things in Pot friend yeah. Because I really believe there is the power in community but I do also believe sometimes it makes sense narrowing down like, hey, I want to see what my friends like but within this category.
So I'm definitely going to be doing a lot more work around how to discover podcasts and using the other people listening on Podfriend to create smarter things. But I'm never going to make algorithms.
That will keep privacy thing.
No. So I will definitely make either opt in or opt out. So that if you don't want people to know what you listen to you shouldn't be forced to contribute to that. But if you're like hey, I don't care if people know because then it also becomes one of those things where I can see that you listen to Podcasting 2.0 and if I don't know the show then I'll be like let.
Me see, that's a good thing. Will you get like similar to the Fountain and also podverse you get like a profile, a public profile also Fountain is even with the clips and things like that. podverse is more also the clips and what you are subscribing to. I'm not sure about that but will that be also that I will have Podfriend.com username or profile name or something like that or an ID number or something like that?
Yeah, 100% so I actually already coded that well some of it like an early version so it will come like I have a lot of things that are like 50% done and it just needs the last bit. It's one of those things. That because it is a hobby project I can work on. If I just get an idea, I can be like, hey, what would this look like? Of course, to actually release it, it would need more time, like more polish.
And there we have something that I interviewed on my first podcast or Egonet Cost that I started in 2006. I interviewed a guy where he was one of the first employees at Libson and he has created an app for iOS and that is called Backpack Studio. And now the name again, but Philovat is his name. Then he had this live thing, but it's more like a radio thing. What was it? White? I don't remember. But you had to hook up something. It was a bit technical for me, but you could do that.
So that's interesting to see where we come into this. And he had this roadmap, he had some ideas and thoughts, what people wanted to have, but then he asked of course it could be that people who are eager, they could push their own agenda, what they want, and then you have to decide yourself also. But how did you come up with this live item tag then? Lit?
So the lit, it's actually very straightforward. It's because every time I listen to Podcasting 2.0 Live, I had to use a different podcasting app than my own and that just felt like it hurt my professional pride. So it's like I have to implement this. So yeah, I did. And then for a while I could just listen on the Podfront beta, which was I was the only user and then now it's released and everyone can.
Use and you did a good guerrilla market there. Also, you boost. You did a huge boost there a boostogram when you went live.
Yeah, so I actually felt like I took like a year break. So I was extremely active in the first part of Podcasting 2.0 to the point where I probably burned out a little bit. My wife and I, we bought a house. There was a lot of work to do there and I got a promotion at my job, which seems like a good thing, but it eats a lot of your free time in the start and I just had to prioritize. So it wasn't even like conscious, it was just I didn't have the time.
And then coming back every week I still listen to the Podcasting 2.0 shows, but then when I came back I was like, hey, I got a lot of value for those shows and I didn't actually boost very much. I did boost a little bit. So I felt like, hey, now let me make a few big boosts to make up for it.
And that's good. And I did that also in order to get really to show support, but also to get this Vatam new so called to joke but serious at the same time. Podcasting 2.0 certified because I have a t shirt now.
Oh, I actually have that as well. I should have worn that for this interview. Yeah, I love it.
I like that. And now I put that as the tagline on LinkedIn that I'm in support of a podcast in 2.0 initiative because I'm an international project coordinator. I had that as an education. Also, in a way, a project is something that you start and then you finish and then you have a goals and so on. But initiative is that it's never in a way ending and it's already in the beginning, but it has a great history and tradition or whatever experience to build on.
So now it's interesting to see is it open, is it closed? What's RSS and whatnot? And again, the listeners don't really care. But if we explain how important it is for the future and the opportunity so that's why I want to listen now, when I know where it is on season one or two. On. Sam said when you talked because I had a short introduction, a solar show about Pod fans.
And I also had a demonstration with Sam, and he was very nice and going through the whole thing, and I was asking all my dumb questions.
Yeah, sam is great.
And now I updated it. So there I really when I saw that, I thought, wow, this onboarding, both regular listeners could earn satoshis, then could so called cash out whatnot but especially if they could support and get into it and you could then discover new podcast and is this gamification in a positive way? So you have really fought about that. But of course, again, I said that another place I fought that about Pod Chaser. I really liked that idea and I interviewed one of the co founders there.
But now when I think about myself, how often do I log in on Pod Chaser? But I still like it very much because everything that I have listed as a co host or producer or whatever I'm listed. So then I could show I have a profile here, I have both a content creator profile and I have a user profile. And now they are bought by this big Swedish ACOs that have a player back in the day. Now they don't have it anymore.
Oh, they don't?
No, I haven't that's a story for itself. But we could talk about that, maybe offline my ideas about why they did that because it's again more power to you, Martin, because it's not easy to do an app.
That is certainly true, but we will.
See how it will turn out with podcast because I think it's a really neat idea, but again, it is will you do it on a daily basis and what could you use it for? And with Pod fans that you could earn something from it by being active. I really see that. And again, friendly competition. I mean, Pod Chasers say now owned by ACOs that they are for so called this open thing. So now we'll see and they are even I think in this standard podcast project, whatever it's called. So we'll see.
And I like again what outspoken Adam and Dave, they say what they think.
Yeah, I love that. A lot of the bigger hosting companies, they're great. But it's the same with Apple podcast and Spotify. I think there are probably engineers there or product managers or designers that would like to make some of these things that we are doing. But I know that as soon as a company reaches a certain size, it becomes almost impossible to make something new and fun quickly. It becomes almost like designed by a committee in a way.
I wonder why Google Podcast didn't do anything more. Because they have that philosophy so called like Gmail was come up with an employee that worked on his own project and why shouldn't they? But it's something that is I don't know, they have some issues there, but potentially they should have been able to do it. But what I like is lately this wordpress.org and this Matt Woolenweg, this foundation has bought Pocketcast, right?
I didn't know that actually.
Yeah, and this is pretty popular app both by Apple users but also Android users. And they had their premium feature and they say that they are into this and want to go there. And that could be really because they have maybe a few percentage. And again, as I said, one of our podcasts, the secular Foxhole, this Op free thing that we added, John spurl thing at the recent period fountain was on the top list together with podverse. So I want to see Pod friend value too, and everyone I do too.
And it doesn't have to take much. And then you decide yourself and you could see that the different podcast apps could be used for different things. So, if you have time, we will do some quick and hard questions here about the journalistic thing, the w's, who, what, when, where and why. And we have talked about you as a person, but who are you as a developer? Would you say what kind of type or again, why do you do this kind of thing?
Yeah, so I started programming when I was like, what? Twelve or something on my dad's computer and started early making like I think my first project was a web chat, actually with a frame that refreshed every now and again. And I honestly did use Commodore and Amiga. No. So that was actually when the internet launched. I think my first programming was on Dos. It was like bad files in Basic.
And then as soon as the internet came, I started to learn a bit of Pearl and that's what I made the first web chat in. And then I think I probably made one of Denmark's first social media platforms. It was called Trendy DK and it was even like, promoted in the TV.
Did you do a good exit? And laughed all the way to the bank.
So I wish I made the worst kind of exit possible. And that was I had a really popular website and I was, what, 15 years old or something, and I had this idea for an amazing version 2.0. And what I did was that I made a new front page on Trend DK that said, stay tuned, version two is coming soon. And I actually turned off the old website because I wanted it to make like, okay, a really big splash. And then version two took forever to build.
And then once I was ready, of course, the users had forgotten all about it. There were quite a few loyal people and some that even said, like, hey, we found each other and started dating because of you. That was cool. But it never gotten around to be as popular in the start. No. Then I transitioned into building some software for actual businesses and enterprise, and I was lucky to get some of the biggest companies in Denmark as a client. It was mostly for businesses. Well, exclusively.
But it was a content management system, so it also had a lot of consumer facing parts to it. And I learned a lot about usability and design and stuff. It went from just me until I think we were 1415 people. I like to say it went really well until it didn't because the market just got absolutely saturated.
But I would say during those years, it was over 15 years, I learned a lot about how you can spend a lot of time developing something that then no one ends up using, or how some things you develop that might only take a few hours, everyone uses. And that's what I use now in my career as a product manager. So in my day to day work, I don't program anymore, but then I program every single evening at home with Pot Friend. So what kind of developer am I?
I'm the running fast with scissors, but still wanting to make something really solid and user friendly. It's actually a little bit against how I normally do it to release something that I feel is unfinished, which I did here with the Podfin 2.0. But I just felt like I need something out there instead of saying next.
Week, next week, in a way, whatever we think about, like Facebook nowadays, that's how they do it. Also, this spaghetti method, they throw it on the wall and see if it still this poke thing is there, but.
Who, it's just hidden.
So that's great. So what you're doing, we have talked about that programming and what Pod Friend is, if you would tell a new podcast listener, what is Pod Friend?
Yeah, I mean, Pod Friend is a podcasting app where you can go in and you can start listening to audio dramas and documentaries and. Coaching podcasts you can find everything audio related there just with a quick search and then you can start listening and then what I usually say is great about Podfriend, or will be now once I have the desktop and the mobile app is exactly that.
If you want to listen on a mobile phone like while you commute or walk the dog or mowing the lawn, then you use the mobile app and then if you want to listen to podcasts while at work, then you can download the desktop app and then you can continue exactly where you left off. And that's also the version one had some of it but not great synchronization and I could just see that I found like a niche there.
The most users of Podfriend were actually using the desktop version which was quite surprising because almost none of the popular apps have well, okay, I say that but of course Apple Podcast have it and Spotify, but a lot of the indie apps, they don't have a desktop version. So I felt like I hit some kind of niche there and I hope to use that a bit more.
And I like the app also, but I also like to listen and log in on a web browser in order to do other things at the same time. And also that have been pretty popular because some of the apps, like Apple Podcast, they take some time to start and also Spotify, even if you have a new computer, it's like starting to scrolling in the background. It takes so long time and it's very clean and neat.
But where you also have this do you want to say and we probably do a follow up with that, this chat thing but also how we could you said about mastodon in the long run to continue a Fred with a chat that you could be searched and you could be found. For me, it's a bit mind blowing. If it will work. It's the old good old days about blog comments in a positive way and if that will work and I know it's lots of technical thing but not if but when it works it will be amazing. Because then what?
You are putting in like a curator or like a lurker or a commenter. That could be something worth also for the conversation, as I like the expression adding your two cent to the conversation.
Yeah, I think it's just another way.
You have done a neat way with the bubbles and so it almost like it looks like this, right? iPhone chat with the bubbles.
Yeah, exactly. And of course that's on purpose that I want it to look like a chat. So that's the transcript you're talking about.
There once we yeah, that's even better in a way. Yeah. So how do you set that up, the transcript? Is it when you log in on the web also or is it that you have to download the app.
No, you can actually use the web but right now we're reading it from the RSS feed. So it's only from the podcast that has the transcript. And in the future I actually talked to Sam about this in the Pod News Weekly that I would love the idea of people being able to, let's say, boost Pod friend and then we would automatically generate the transcript. And then I heard the next day that Fountain already did that or in the new version.
It's really interesting and I didn't know that Fountain had that planned. So I think we're getting a lot of the same ideas and it also just shows that it's such a field where innovation is just happening so fast.
Because I see the transcript even if it's not 100% right and it could have a hard time to if I say Linda Scoogum your name, last name, for example.
Exactly.
And then of course, is it worth to go in and change this if you can? Or as I'm using all the two when I'm doing editing and post production, they have a really neat transcript service but you can't do so much you upload these what is calling SRT file because that's what I think it's working. But you could have text also, and others but it is lots of work into this and it will evolve over time and then you will see if the market will in one way or another pay for it.
Because it could be accessibility, you could be searchable, but also you have to do it like similar with this chapter thing. We do it for one podcast called Presentation Skills Q and A because we have a short podcast format where like five to maximum ten minutes and choose maybe four, five, six images and that's doable. But I am so impressed. Of course they have help with no agenda and others but to do all these transcript and chapters but lots of work to do.
Yeah, and you can see that's really the power of building a community around your podcast. I know that it's DREB. Scott that typically does it for both.
Noah and Jen and he gets a bit of a splitters but he's very good at sending Boostograms also and competing. He put me off on this big top list on Fountain. I think one time I was almost winning something. They had these giveaways.
That'S funny. Yeah, I have a theory that he's sending more than he's receiving.
Yeah, I'm here too, but it's all good because it will come back to you and it's very nice in a friendly way, marketing that you do it and you get the connection. So I really like that you have done that. So I definitely have to check out the transcript because if it's in a neat way both accessibility, but also in a neat way, if you want to search for something like when I'm now doing clips, because that's what I like with podverse and a fountain, then you could search for the transcript.
When did I say when did I send this boost Togram? And then you could do this ego boosting by yourself but also you're adding something to the conversation.
Yeah.
And then you could turn out on Twitter. Whatnot? And I think that's pretty so I did that recently on the latest episode of this victim important for real. Then my cos corin she said this should be a clip of it because it's like a teaser or trailer of episode. I think you should listen to the whole thing. Of course. But if you do it in a nice way it could be like I think of you maybe you should listen to this episode. Here is a short 1 minute clip, right?
Yeah.
And this technology to do that again, somebody has to do it, right?
Yeah, exactly. So I definitely also want to add for example clips to Podfriend. We also have in the podcasting 2.0 there is a tag for like a clip that's a trailer or something. That's definitely also something. It's like there are so many ideas and stuff. You're talking about a roadmap earlier. Like I have a thing called a trello board where you have a little almost virtual cart for each task and I think there is over 1000 items on that board with just ideas.
So I definitely will not run out anytime soon. No, that's good.
So when we come to the when also, I mean when you are doing this and you had said that it's like a side thing and then you hustle but also a passion project and you get like a kick off it. So that's great. And where we know it's like in Denmark and Copenhagen, do you get lots of feedback around the world? Like input and you got context and connections by doing this?
Yeah, I do. I mean, I typically get a lot of feedback when I do a new release and people try it out and then like day to day I will get a lot well, no, actually that's wrong. When I do a new release I'll get a lot of feedback from people that just try it and then it balances out. So in the normal time then I'll get a lot more feedback about the everyday experience from those people that use it more as like an everyday thing.
Because I'm doing it for my own reasons also because I seen it. But then I understood your situation in a way and then I heard the good news and we will end on that note. Also how we got to know each other a bit more so that I thought was neat that you oh, now I want to test again when you are doing this new version. But then you could work not in the disguise or hide, but you could work behind the scenes. I know like a ringer.
That was one of the first apps that you could have several guests on a podcast, on audio, and that's lots of technology in order to work, right? Yeah, but on their app they haven't updated for a long time, but they do with small things in order to make it more stable the whole time. And again, it could be enough to have like one bad review and then others are coming, catching up, so to speak.
But then you could also be happy with we have found our market, now we have found our audience and our client base. And that's good also because it's yeah.
What I could see was that before I took the break from podcasting, I could listen to a lot of podcasts and then they would say like, oh, this boost is from this person through pot friend. And then when I hold that year break during that year it would still come and then at the end of the year it would start to drop off like then it was all potverse and fountain. I was like, if I had just been able to develop that whole year, it would have been such an amazing app.
But sometimes you don't have that luxury. But I definitely hope to it's what you said, like the friendly competition. I think all the smaller apps, we steal ideas from each other. We see what's working or borrow ideas or getting. Yeah. What is the quote that great artists copy, no good artists copy but amazing artists steal or something like that.
Yeah, as long as you give credit, that credit is due. And I think that's important. And that's the why thing here also when you have this journalistic thing. So again, I think probably guess the answer, but why are you doing this?
Well, so first of all, there's the American Express and dog fooding. Like using your own product.
I say that also eating your own dog food.
Yeah, and I definitely to do that. I use podfriend myself. And then when I'm suddenly like, oh, I wish it could do that, it's like, well I can make it do that because I'm the developer and that's awesome to have that freedom. But I guess there is still this small pipe dream that at some point it could make it big, at some point I could make it good enough that I could get that one percentage of listeners or something.
That's good that you are now saying it on these small podcasts. You never know, you could exactly come back five years later and say that because it's not an impossible thing. It is point, whatever. And then it's good. As I said.
Yeah, we can see that. Of course Apple podcasts have a big.
But it's like a default on default because it's already on your phone. Right?
Exactly. But you can't for example, say that about Spotify. They started from nothing, but they had.
A huge advantage with the music app.
Yeah, but I mean back in the days with music they started from nothing, right? True, of course, yes. Then transition into podcasting and they had that step but.
Also they got support from the record industry. I mean they saved the record industry from a pirate base and others.
That is true.
Yeah, that's the backstory and it's fascinating.
Story but there were probably ten other companies that were trying to do something like it and someone has to win. And I think with the podcasting apps there's so much potential but you also have to be really good if you want users that just listen to some audio drama to actually change from let's say Apple podcast to something else. You have to provide something unique.
And I think right now we do have the 2.0 features and that's enough for some like that they can support users, that they can read chapters and transcripts but I think for the majority of users then we have to do something really unique and probably in the discovery realm like how people find podcasts. So that's at least my gut feeling and that's why I'm moving Pod friend a bit. And also I think Fountain actually has it right about also going the social route.
That's definitely also something that I'll be looking into because I think discoverability and social. Then your friends will say hey, have you tried this podcasting app? Then you can see what I listen to and stuff. Yeah, because that's actually one thing that I do get a lot of questions from my friends like oh, I want to listen to a new podcast, can't you recommend something good? It's like it would be great if I just through Podfriend just could say and send it to them as recommendations.
So that's definitely something that I want in a way. And in a way they maybe don't need it because that's not their business. But they tried a social called Pling or Plig or whatever and that didn't turn.
Oh yeah, I remember that. That was mostly for music, right?
Yeah, but still if you use the app you could see your friends what they are listening to but it's not before you could follow artists directly and so on but they have thought that also but with Spotify it is about the whole thing about creating list and sharing list and party, whatever. So they have been good at that. Again is this battle of ideas you could say do they have an agenda, what do they really do?
Let's talk about that and let's have conversation, even debate discourse and also get out there talking about that because I think that's interesting what's playing out here. So that's interesting and talking about that why also but also where you are, do you know podcastconsult? DK Corinhurg, an old one of earliest podcasters out there.
I don't know her actually or she still probably have a studio in Copenhagen and I met her when I visited there and she's very nice person and great podcaster and she has like a podcast shop selling equipment and so on.
I did go and meet the people.
Behind the Hindenburg and it's fascinating the name Hindenburg crashed, but that's a very good program. But for me it was in a way overkill. So I had this $1 version. But then of course you have to upgrade if you do all the bells and whistles. And then I was so happy about when Ollie Two was coming around with Colin Gray, that is a professional podcaster and have podcast service and all this around and also content creator for a long time.
He written long blog post and article and guides and so on. And when he saw this that not everyone is studio technician or sound engineer or know how to use GarageBand or Audacity. That is not so called in my view. Use a friend. Of course he's only learning how to learn about it, but hinburg.
It actually reminds me but before this show, this is the first time I used this microphone for a podcast. And before the show, to set some of the settings, I called up one of my coworkers and I was like okay, how does it sound now? Okay, let me just like and what about now? And then we found a good setting, knock on wood.
And I have this roder that I like and like the style. But again, I don't know if it's exactly the right settings and so on, but you have to test and you have and of course we shiny gadgets. It's probably one microphone out there. Martin, that's your name on it but you haven't found it yet. But then again it's just do it also, as Nike is saying, to start and that's what I like also.
Exactly.
So that's great too. And we have this with Copenhagen is CPH the airport but in Gotenberg it's got so got milk. Have you heard about that expression?
Yeah.
So that's something to think about. And talking about that. We have talked about drinks and beverages and whatnot. It was a funny and that of course was this really live thing. So I think that was kosher to do. But we were playing lots of music at one episode with Adam the DJ.
Yeah.
And we were trying to get into the boosting and this too unlimited no Limit song. That was fun. And I have had several. Again what I want to tell artists that I have had as guests, like Rosala, for example, and others, I have had, like ten different artists now on my ego net cost. And it's interesting to hear about their story and career, but also how to make a living, the concert merchandise, and also how to get paid by when they are streaming and the challenges there.
Probably it has to be, as Adam is saying, its own app, in a way. Again, as you say, it's hard to mix and match, but it could be built with the same technology.
Yeah, I do plan to make have music in Podfriend as well, but I plan to have it where you switch it. Now I go into music mode or now I go into podcast mode. But I do believe you're right, if I wanted to make sure it was the most successful thing possible, I would make it its own app. So that's definitely the right way to go. And I think Steven is going the right way with making the Ellen Beats. I think he just needs a little bit of help from a designer that could really put a nice skin on it.
Yeah. And you said it because I'm not the designer, but I could see what I see. Right. And again, it's what you have in your mind. So that could be good, like a focus group and bounce things back and forth and get this positive constructive feedback. And I think that's interesting with the split what you could do. So again, it's to reach out and I like what Adam is often saying that and also Dave, also
how could you help? So that could be now we have been chatting for a long time and I've been babbling. So is it how could I help you and how could listener help you with Pod Friend and others and anything else that you want to end on as an end note?
Yeah, I mean anyone can definitely help just by using it and giving feedback. I have people that ask me, hey, is it okay if I send you an email with an idea I have? And I'm like, yes, I love ideas because that also shows what people are thinking about, how they're using the app, what they're thinking it should be able to do. I mean, I can't promise that I will implement each and every idea, but I will definitely take it into account.
And then how else can you help? You can help spread the word, like let other people know that something like podcasting 2.0 apps actually exist. And it's not just Pod Friend, it's also all the other apps out there.
Yeah, that's great. Thanks again Martin, to coming on the show and nice talking to you. And we'll see how the live was going. And again, it's with editing and post production and show notes and transcripts. So we'll see when we will be up on the air. But yeah, so if you have any input later on or something how we could work together here, you're more than welcome to also send me an email and we will continue our conversation. Thanks again for your time. It was great.
Thanks a lot for having me. Yeah, it was great. I had a lot of fun.
And to talk to your partner about Tea also as an end note there.
Yes.
So thanks again, Martin. So now you have to wait for a second and I will click on the stop recording.