Welcome to Tasting Notes Toronto by Insider Wine, the podcast where we speak with the restaurant owners, sommeliers, and winemakers that make Toronto such an exciting place to dine out. I'm Alex Abbott Boyd, sommelier and founder of Insider Wine, a boutique wine importing agency based in Toronto. In this episode, I sit down with Robert Loueau, head sommelier at restaurant Pearl Morissette, recently named Canada's best restaurant. Rob's story is anything but typical. He's incredibly humble, the kind of person who says he only became a sommelier because, well, there was no one else around to pour the wine.
But behind this modesty is a story of relentless curiosity, global experience, and a deep commitment to hospitality. Rob has worked his way through wineries and restaurants around the world, learned from some great mentors, gaining invaluable experience the hard way by rolling up his sleeves and putting in the work. Here's my conversation with Robert Luo. Thank you so much for being here. To kick things off, I'd love to know when you were growing up, where where was home?
I was born and raised in China. The one of the three major city in China called Guangzhou in the Southeast. A lot of people know as, you know, the spring and autumn fair. It's also a major food city as well as the Hong or Cantonese cuisine.
Oh, that's awesome. And was being in such a food city, was food a big part of your family life growing up? Was it really important to your parents?
Yeah. My grandpa is actually a very good cook, and he definitely demonstrated that. And my family loves food. That's for sure. Yeah. They cook they cook a lot every single meal.
And I'm guessing wine was maybe not a big part of what they would pair with the food? Or
No. Not at all. Like, I I've never touched alcohol until, like, I don't know, about 15, 16, drinking a very low AV beer beer. Like, they had pineapple in it. It was it was okay. It's a it's a crusher. Yeah. Not a thing at all. I would be
so curious then when were you exposed to wine, and when did you first start to fall in love with?
That's probably when I was in Australia. So, well, I guess, probably should trace back why I'm in Australia in the first place Yeah. Because that all makes sense. Back in twenty two thousand sevens, my parents sent me to Australia because back then, they have a program can fast track integrations, provide a new study of working a certain skill shortage track. So the one that I was chosen for was the pastry. So, yes, I
How how did you choose
the pastry? You know, didn't choose you. Well, they choose it for me. I was like, okay. Whatever. I didn't I didn't know much at the time anyway as you were kids. I was just just turned 19. Yeah. So I moved there and then spent a year study and and learn pastry in the trade school.
And where in Australia were you?
Sydney. Yeah. During that time, you're required to do placements. So I was working in a cafe at the time. And the chef definitely very old school, and I did not enjoy it at all. So it's like, I don't think kitchen is for me. So from there, I divert into the hospitality management.
Okay.
And part of the program is wine. So and that's kinda how I started it. So wine evaluation, the world wine, and all those kind of very basic and fundamentals at the time of what had been '21 Okay. '22.
And and what do you think like, pivoting into hospitality, you know, it could have been so many things that draw you in, whether it was the management side, the food side. What was it about wine that really got you excited then?
It it might sound weird for a lot of some out there, but for me, it was a logistic choice. So before I really get into wine, after working couple years in hotel, then move on to a fine dining restaurant called Rockpool, Rockpool and George. One of the most, I would say, very, very important restaurant in Australian cuisine or Australian restaurant industry. There, I, of course, I have my own section as a server, but they basically share a song with others. Wine pairing is quite important for those kind of environments, and I can only do so much.
Like, I can set all the glasses, prep all the cutlery, whatever, but the song have to be there to serve the wine, to pair the food. And a lot of time, the food arrived, then they got caught up. So I was like, I can't do this. But what if I can just do it all. Yeah.
And and, really, that's how it started. More logistic. There is a song team that's there. You know, if they are in the pinch, they'd rather to have somebody done the wine for them as opposed to, you know, just sitting there with their food getting cold and the glass is was was there to lose then if I were to pour it. So that's how it started.
And the very first one I pour was a mensinia. Okay. It's funny enough. So I remember that. And from there, I was like, well, I have to arm myself with knowledge. So that's where I start. That was, like, West has level two, three. So there's I've done it all. Sydney and and also just asked the song to give me all the training materials. At the time, we actually quite fortunate to have a master's sommelier as our British director.
Oh, wow. So, yes, Sebastian Korthwether. So he's based in Melbourne now. Yeah. So I just brought whatever material that they were trained on, read, and that's how it started. Yeah. After working there for over two years, and I moved to a smaller restaurant called Osley of Wally in Newtown. It's like a small 20 odd seat tasting menu. And, excuse me, just two chef, two front of house, and that's it. We does it all.
But one of the my manager and also the song, Joe Ryan. So arguably, quite one of the best song, like, young gan sommelier in the country that that I learned from. So, like, he invited me to do all this hasting with him, and, like, before service, we'll go through quizzes of, like, all the fuel song they provide. And so, yeah, that's how it all started because of him in a way.
Yeah. I mean, that's fascinating. So many people get bitten by the wine bug and then try to figure out how to do a career in it. And for you, it sounds like it was very, very practical. Someone had to serve the wine, so you were going to it. At what point at what point did it go from this is something that I need to do for logistical reasons, for hospitality reasons, to this is something that that I love and that I really wanna pursue?
I think that's the I get a bit more serious when I move back well, move to Toronto in 2016. I was working at La Vernette at the time. Me and my friend Daniel, we're both working there at the time, decide to go for a certified in Montreal. So we're just constantly studying, tasting, and and all that. We passed the exam, and then they when we came back, we got offered to look after the program there. That's when it's gonna get to be more serious.
Okay. But what about what about the passion? Was there was there a certain bottle? Was there a certain experience that really kind of lit you up?
Think it's the art of hospitality rather than a bottle of wine is like, wow. This is crazy. Yeah. I I just I never really have, like, a lot of those epiphany moment that a lot of some have. Yeah.
Like, I I do have a lot of amazing wine moment that I will forever cherish and and adore, but, like, I don't think there is that pivotal point to say, oh, because of this wine, therefore, I need to go down this rabbit hole. No. It's a hospitality. It's a craftsman's career. Army's a wine is a it's a it's a very important element Yeah. That that I want to learn and, like, build myself to be more all all around it.
I love that. Do do you almost think that as psalms and as wine lovers, you know, many people can become almost too focused on the wine and and forget that it's it's a part of the meal and it's a part of hospitality and it's not this this thing that should be on a pedestal all by itself.
It that is all, you know, people sitting at the table having a good time. So wine is important, but I think it's the whole setting and the food and the gathering is even more important. Yeah. So wine can't be part of it for sure, but I just don't wanna get get carried away in a way.
Yeah. No. I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Do you mention a couple of the ways that you started to learn about wine doing w set? It sounds like you were very lucky to work in an establishment that had a master sommelier. Were there any things you know, wine can just be so intimidating. There's just so much to know. Were there any any things that you found especially helpful as you were trying to build up that knowledge?
I mean, a lot of reading, studying, tasting definitely help. I think be in a region, like, do harvest. Right? And I think that is really help connect the dot that you read you read books, theory, taste all you want, but be there, touch it, feel it, talk to the people, be part of it. I think that's more important. And, yeah, I think that is definitely something that I will encourage anyone that love wine or wanna pursue their career, go and try one harvest, see what happens.
Yeah. I mean, there's absolutely nothing like being in a wine region, meeting the people. You can study it forever in a book, but you you don't understand it nearly as well as if you just go there. Would be curious. At what point did you decide that you really wanted to focus all in on being a sommelier?
I mean, it's actually all come to after two and a half years being in Toronto. There's always in the back of my mind that I want to go to Europe because that's pretty much the capital of wine. Yeah. I moved to London in 2019. There's work at a few restaurants and started a few places and you learn about wine.
And place that, like, most intriguing is a restaurant called Tribute, which is owned by Johnny Lake, another Canadian chef, and Isabel Massasomaiere. Both are actually quite important part in the fat duck history. Yep. So the wine that they is or layout is by the chronological time of the travel bind. So, yeah, the first page is Georgian mania, Turkey. Oh, wow. Just follow the journey of Vind. That's how it lays out, and I've never seen anything like that.
That's wild.
That's that's that's something else.
So all the the Napa cabs and the Barossa Shrads, is there at the very back of the book?
Back of the book. It's way back. I've never ever seen a wine list built this way.
And how how did guests respond to that?
They were intrigued. It's basically reading a storybook
Yeah.
At this point. And and also open up the conversation of trying something new. Yeah. Like, away from you want okay. No. Blah blah blah. I'll try this. Or you will never be capable about this. And people are just intrigued by, oh, wow. They make wine for that many times Yeah. Or, like, however long, way before places that we know of today. So Yeah. And they just open up the curiosity of a lot of guests.
And how how did you like those wines from the kind of the birthplace countries of wine?
They are amazingly well priced and high quality. Yeah. And the mania, it's like I love so much indigenous grape, but the the wine are incredibly food friendly.
Yeah. Yeah. I tried some Georgian wines at Wine Paris, and I was absolutely loving them. And then I'm like, well, what's the export price? And they're like, €2.50. And I was like, what?
The the amount of work that go into it and and the product is so solid, but sometimes the price is like you'll be surprised.
Sitting to where we are now, sitting in restaurant Pearl Morissette in Niagara, how did you end up going from from London to to working here?
Well, there's certainly a gap in between. So after about eight months in London, then we have a little thing called COVID. So, basically, everything shut down. But during all those time, I was managed to make a bit of connections, and I managed to secure a harvest gig in Champaign. August, I moved to Champaign. Spent two weeks doing to my first ever harvest in Champagne.
But what part of Champagne were
you in? I'm the Colobard and producer Marie Corton Okay. And poly and Polo. So they're actually husband and wives just had their own project. That was the very, very first time. And champagne, why is it so expensive? Because it hurt your back really bad. It's so low divine. Yeah. It's no fun. There's no machine harvest possible. It's it's crazy.
And now 2020 was a really hot year too. Right?
It was quite warm. Like, it was, like, stretching the sweat to harvest those fruit. And that's a great experience. So now I, like, connect the dot.
Now you appreciate the price.
And, like, why they need to train so low Yeah. Like, for all those reasons. And, yeah, so you kind of can get the first hands of, okay. This is Champagne. Even though it's in the colder bars, quite far away from the rest of the Champagne region, but you still get a sense Yeah.
What's happening. From there, I went to Germany to the Mausole to winery called Weingold Heimann Luvenshtein. I'm still one of the VDP producer in Winingen. That's really the place I learned just about everything I know when it comes to viticulture and support. There, I basically do anything and everything they ask me to do. Mhmm. But vineyard to sell the to labeling. Yeah. And I learned a lot from it. Spent on and off ten months, two seasons, including pruning and harvest. Oh. I hope they give
you some nice wine to take home at the end.
Yeah. Well, I mean, I can't really take anything home because I can't carry them, but I was very fortunate to have a friend as I work within. Heimel Lewinschein is also a young winemaker and also now the salemaster for Jaime Lewenstein, and he kindly provide me a little space in his cellar to store all the wines. So
Oh, so you've got a little cellar waiting for you in Yeah. The
Yeah. So that's that's very fortunate. Okay. I don't it
also works out so well, the two regions that you visited in and collected wine champagne and and most of the regions where the longer it stays in Europe aging probably is just gonna get better and better. Right?
I will hope so. That's how it worked. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. It definitely works out. So the the Soda Master in Heimann Wonshine, the time is a very close friend with Charlie producer called Emily and Edouard Vocouille. And so then they did somebody for the spring seasons, and they just sent me there for the spring. And that was another very eye opening experience.
Like, literally, I arrived on the I can't remember what day, but a day ago, the entire Grand Cru sites were lit up with candles because of the frost. And when I go into the town, it was just smoke. Wow. Yeah. And you can you walk through the bronco trails. You can just see candles everywhere, every single row. And, yeah, and I've never seen anything like that in my in my entire career.
Was it like I said, I think we a lot of us have seen pictures of that from Burgundy Yeah. Recently. Was it beautiful like that, or it sounds like it was just kinda making making smog?
Well, when I was there, it was daytime. Okay. So, obviously, I won't, like, the all the candle are burnt. But at nighttime, I'm sure it's very beautiful in pictures. In reality, it's definitely painful. And how do you choking when you try to breathe? And and it's very expensive. It's Yeah. Very scary. Yeah.
And that vintage as well. I believe it's 2021. It was just nonstop raining at all. So and all the tractor will just have to keep going out and spray. And for some reason, all the tractors have rolled down.
Oh my goodness.
And they all need to get repair and all those kind of things.
Wow. And it was gonna be impossible now to drink those twenty twenty ones without thinking about all of that and that Oh, no. Difficulty and and misery that they went through to make them.
Yeah. It was. It was tough. But, again, you're working with mother nature. Yeah. This is just nature of things. Yeah. It will happen in any region and any given vintages. That's also a testament to winemakers. Even in a difficult vintage, a good winemaker will always find his way Yeah. To find the best wine possible with what they have. So yeah. And that's kind of the vintage I excited about.
Yeah. It shows it shows both the skill and accentuates the way that a wine can tell you about the place it's it's from from an extreme vintage like that.
Right? Absolutely. Yeah.
You're in Germany, and then we're tracing how you got from Germany to here.
Then Chablis actually went to Beaujolais going to Lapeer. Okay. Oh, wow. For month for the entire month. And then from there, I went back to the Mausole for another season, so two season altogether.
And then from there, I went to Australia. So that's six months that I spent in the Borussia. Then from there, I moved back to Canada. So I reached out to a few winery for harvest cake. At the time, thought maybe, you know, the in the viticulture or the cellar is where where I will probably end up landing.
So I connected with Jacob Lipinski in Big Hat. Yeah. Yeah, they gladly took me on. Then then I came back in 2022 in September, and as did my and moved straight to Saint Catherine where I live now and to do a vintage in Big Hat. Okay.
And, yeah, probably one of the, you know, one of the worst vintage that we have because after '21, we don't really have much fruit and just just nothing going on. Yeah. That was quite devastating. It was a big frost in in November in '21. But towards the end of the season, I was connected to promos at the restaurants, and they needed help for the weekend.
So as I come on and help them, I'm familiar with the wine. I can still do the restaurant work. Those skill never leave you. And, yeah, then here we are.
So it it sounds like you had almost started thinking that you would just be in in viticulture and winemaking.
Yeah. I've well, I thought about it, and I even reached out to Niagara College for the viticulture program. But they were like, oh, you didn't study high school in here. You need to go and study chemistry, biology, and things like that.
Okay. There was no just test you could take to prove you knew those things?
No. No. You have to go do that. I was like, no. Thank you. I don't I don't have time for that. That's that's a lot. Okay. So
So for someone who is hasn't been here and maybe only knows a little bit about the restaurant, how would you describe restaurant Pearl Morissette? What's the vibe? What's the food like? What's the wine like? What is it all about?
Restaurant Pearl Morissette is a very farm to table restaurant, a place that is of a tasting menu that really reflecting on what is going on seasoned from using primarily with ingredient from our very own farm, literally just outside the restaurant here, from producers that's around us, from either coast of the country. So something that really worth knowing that is as a restaurant, we don't use anything that cannot be grown in Canada. Okay. So you will never see any citrus. There's really no cinnamon, no vanilla, no black pepper, none of that.
But the chef will have to find way to mimic different flavors. So for example, if we need a citrus flavor, we could use a leaf called perboxalis or sorrel leaf and sandwich it with lemon balm or lemon verbena. And together, that become our lemon. If we need cinnamon and cinnamon like flavor, we'll go and forage that little plant called spicebush. So the branches in the leaf, when you steep them, give you a flavor of that cinnamon profile. Yeah. It's quite fascinating. So
Yeah. It's incredible. I'll just say having having dined here
Mhmm.
The thought that was in my mind the entire time was this is the most delicious food I've had in Canada, not, oh, I really it needs a little pepper or it needs a little cinnamon. Mhmm. I feel like they flawlessly execute on that vision.
Mhmm. Yeah. I think that's something they wanna showcase what they have. I guess it's also probably coming from where they have worked in Europe. Like, they dealt directly with the farmers Yeah.
With the producers that's around them. So they wanna bring the idea to here to showcase Canadian cuisines or ingredients. So I guess globally, people look at Canada as almost like a culinary desert. There's not a lot of places people from around the world think of Canada as like, oh, we need to go there. All they have in my point, maple syrup.
Man, there's about Maple syrup and ice wine.
Yeah. So I think, yeah, they kind showcase what we have in our back garden here.
So Yeah. I love that. Canada pride. Yeah. And so how how did you go from a weekend server to to nowadays you're curating the wine pairings?
After seasons finished, there isn't really much to do in the winery, so I decided to move back in the restaurant just full time, just work on the floor.
So that was, like, as as more of a server?
Just as and and to help whatever I could. But the people that were looking after the beverage program, one after the other, left for very different reasons that left with me. That's why I had the background as a somm and in wine. So I was like, okay. I guess it's now me now. So I told him initially I only just stayed here for one year and see how it go. Almost three years in. What
was it a little bit scary or intimidating? Promoirs that is such a well known restaurant taking over your first your first SOM job in years stepping into that role, how did you feel about that?
Oh, I mean, definitely somewhat skin intimidating, but at the same time, it's also very exciting. So it is probably the first time ever that I actually take on the list on my own. Yeah. But, of course, with Selana here to help me and guide me and franchise for whatever advice I needed. So there's a lot of support around me to make that happen. And they also just let me do whatever I see fit. So, yeah, that helps a lot. So it's a trial and error.
Yeah. I just I think more highly of the restaurant now knowing that, you know, they can see that the talent in in their staff. And even if they haven't worked in a role like that before, seeing you with that potential and empowering you and just helping you succeed sounds it sounds like it was a really, really special experience.
Yeah. For sure. And definitely forever grateful for the opportunity and experience to build something. The seller was almost somewhat empty by the time I took over it because of just literally how COVID
Okay.
They have to sell the seller. Yeah. Oh, that's So, like, basically, start from almost, like, almost scratch.
Oh, in a way, that's gonna be great. I I I've heard so many times people take on a new role, and they're like, oh, I'm stuck with all this wine. The last song, I don't know what they were thinking.
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So all all those blank canvas, but at the same time, seeing what is left in there also give me a sense that what will work. Yeah. And that's why they are still here.
So yeah. Yeah. And and and, you know, very much in keeping with the theme of the restaurant being everything that that grows in Canada. You know, so much of the wine is wine that the Pearl Morissette Winery produces.
Mhmm.
You know, how do you go about thinking about when you're building a pairing, how do you like to balance out the wines produced here on-site, wines produced in in other parts of the country or other parts of the world?
So I guess then we need to start a little bit about our ethos when it comes to wine selections. Yeah. So the what we're looking for here is to showcase some small artisan that have a very similar ethos, winemaking and wheat culture to us. So that kind of like our guideline. So with our pairing offering, that's what we refer to as a beverage pairing.
So it's a combination of seven beverages. Six of them is wine or alcoholic, and one of which is garden pairing. There's nonalbolic, something that's extremely unique to us. And there's some things that we've grown in here. We turn them into beverages here with dishes.
So and we make them fresh every single Thursday for that. No. So with the herring, so there will be three of them, four more is that. The other three that's alcoholic will be anywhere from around the world, whether it be a wine from local producer in Niagara or all the way to Japan. They have a sake. So it really depends on the dish itself and what it require. Mhmm.
And and how often does the menu change?
It's quite rapidly. So within a season, you could see easily two version of a menu, but it doesn't change just in one go. It's gradual kind of switch from dish to dish kind of the way. Sometimes even the same dish this component could change just because the gallon has it. It's, oh, it works well. Then we'll just put it on.
So are you always thinking about kind of this season's menu and where it might evolve to over the season when you're when you're buying the wines? Or or do sometimes you you try a wine and you love it, so you're like, I'll find a spot for it. Or is it very much menu first and then and then let's find the right wine?
I think it's a bit of bowel. A lot of time, there's a certain style of wine that I know will find its way home, and so I would just buy them regardless. Yeah. So the wine have to speak to us first. It have to be a great quality wine, and and then I would just figure out how I can use it.
There's a story to tell. Yeah. But a lot of time, like, let's say now it's asparagus seasoned, and I will, like, just stock up all the oxidative wines or or skin contact wines because I know they are the kind of the only two thing that I know of can go with asparagus.
Okay. So I love that pairing. What's an example of one of the wines you're pairing with asparagus now?
At the moment, we do have a white asparagus, so it is being poached in whey. It's a byproduct of cheese making. Yeah. And with that, we do have a succulents, veloute, and they have a razor clam in there. And on top, it is a emerald sturgeon caviar from the East Coast, pop wild rice, and a little leaf called sweet sizzle that we're growing here, give you that kind of licorice vibe to it.
But unlike green asparagus, it doesn't have any chlorophyll, so I was very fortunate and lucky. So at the moment, actually using a local producer called Premio. It's a blend of Maison and Mion. Okay. Wow. It's quite fascinating fascinating wine.
In in barrel aged?
It is ferment. Barrel ferment. Barrel aged. Yeah. So and they do a bit of button arch as well. So it is rich, but it also had the beautiful acidity balance, very textural, white.
Sounds like a match made in heaven. What are some of your favorite pairings that you've done over over your time here?
Okay. Something that I very adore and something that that's something I brought on to the restaurant. There's a dish that we did before. It is a celery egg, all the roots of celery. Then we cut them into a very, very fine strip, like pavodelli.
Then we roll them up into a cake. Then they cook very, very slowly on a cast iron pan with butter. And underneath it is caramelized whey. So, again, it is the the whey they can they get heavily reduced to kinda caramel. With that, I actually served with a slightly more savory of sake. So it was it was very delicious, I have to say. And then change people perception of sake that can only, you know, serve with sushi and only drink an izakaya and only serve hot.
Yeah. No. Oh, that's beautiful. Are there any are there any wines that you find are just impossible to pair with the cuisine that that is served here?
They're relatively delicate. So some, like, heavy duty red a lot of time might be challenging. So say, a a napa cap or something like that, it just overpowering the food, and that's something I typically don't use or seek out for. Yeah.
Or I do I do remember when I dined here last year, though, there was quite a big Perle Morissette Cobb Frang, but then it it was almost, like, ten years old. Right? I think it was, like, 2014 or something like that that you were saying.
2011.
2011. Okay. So even even older than that.
Yeah. So but with our winemakings, always have a bit more gentle touch. Yeah. So Yeah. For us, but for other people, it's it's, like, lightish. I don't know.
Yeah. That's so funny. I mean, I compared to some of the other wines and the wines I typically drink, was like, oh, this powerful. This is big. But you're right. Probably compared to everything else
in the world, it It's probably not that powerful in comparison, but it's still packed with flavor and have a lot of nuance and elegance
No.
And and just as long leaf.
That was a beautiful one. You know, since since you've since you've been here, I think the profile of the restaurant has really grown. The restaurant just won best restaurant in Canada. You've had a star now for two years. Right? Two years or one year?
One year.
One year. Yeah. Okay. What has that been like? And and how is that or has that changed what it's like to be here and the kind of people that come?
Something I see significantly change is that we don't have a downtime anymore and get booked out a lot faster. That's definitely a change, but you do see people from all corner of the country come and see us, and people from the state will come here and say, oh, yeah. Where about this MissionStar restaurant? We'd love to come and check it out. And, yeah, we definitely draw a lot of guests that's interested in food and have curious curiosity to see what we do. Dine with us with this.
Great. Yeah. That's amazing. So people are coming to Canada just, like, from The US just just to eat here. They're Yeah.
Yeah. Wow. There are there are those guests, and there's some international guests as well. So we think there's a couple that's come from Germany just come visit us, like like, build us as the itinerary and then wrap around it.
So That's incredible. Speaking to what you said earlier about Canada is known as a culinary desert, it sounds like the restaurant really is helping to put the country on the map.
I think they they worked very, very hard in the last two years to really wanna showcase what we can do and what we are about in the global platform.
Yeah. Oh, that's great. What what keeps you excited about why?
Well, the more I don't know and the more I want to know. So and I think that's very, very exciting thing. So many regions, so many different grapes that we only they're like 3,000 or 5,000 wine grape there's out there, but we really just corner to that barely maybe 100 something. Yeah. We forget about the other, I don't know, couple thousands, and on top of that, they're hybrid.
So I think there's a lot. They're quite frankly, one glass of wine, they pretty much encapsulate a lot of different thing that you can learn in university, the entire universities in your class. Yeah. But always the the science and philosophy, history, science, and you name it. So I think there's there's a lot in there just one class. Yeah. So I think that's always fascinating.
Yeah. It's like a it's like a time capsule that can take you back to a certain place and a certain season. Exactly. And then again, it contains, well, why do they make this variety here, and why do they make it in this way? And to understand that, you get to learn almost everything from history to food to chemistry.
And then it bring back your memories. You look at that bottle. Oh, I bought it there. Yeah. That what's happened there at the time, and then now I'm drinking that wine. Yeah. So it's quite interesting, actually. Funny enough, couple weeks ago, me and my colleague, Matt, we, for some reason, bought the exact same wine, but from two different places. One bought the white body in Toronto. The other one, he bought it in The US.
It's identical. So we decided to open the same type of line of a bunch of people, and the wine is different. They are the same year. Everything is the same, but for some reason, they are different. Wow. Yeah. Again, the wine was made in 02/2010. They got opened in 2025. Yeah. And they were opened at the basement and were shared with a bunch of wine people.
And I think that's all about Yeah. You know. And that will be a memory that forever stay in our mind. So we share the experience together. And to me, that's important. You know? A bottle of wine, you don't open. It's just a label and a bottle capping liquids in it Yeah. Until it's the cold popped. It doesn't really mean much, at least for me.
That's beautiful. I I always think of wine as a connection. Yeah. It connects us to whoever we're sharing it with, to the place it was made, to the person who made it. But you just said it far more eloquently than that.
Yeah. I mean, it's they're they're designed to be, you know, sharing these social lip lubricants. So it's something that people enjoy at the dinner table or over conversations.
So yeah. That makes that makes total sense. I guess you touched on this a little bit with all of your like, all the travel and all the places that you worked, but one of my favorite aspects of wine is the way it can open up just in incredible experiences in other countries.
Mhmm.
Is there is there any place that you've either visited or worked at that stands out the most as somewhere you'd recommend to someone that they'd have to go and see and and experience for themself?
For me, it has to be in Mosul. There there's no other place that I've been that's, like, had that much impact Yeah. On me. Yeah. You you
worked multiple seasons there. What what was it about Mosul that that drew you in?
Yeah. I was there for entire almost a whole year. I still that you write down the textbooks. I show the slaves will absorb heat and then retain their reflex in the night. I want to finish work finish work and went for a job, put my hand on the terrace, walk
Oh, really hot. Yeah.
Yeah. That's what they're talking about. Yeah. And they talk about how steep that is those veneers are. They are very steep.
I fell multiple time, and it's scary. It's just lockdown. They're, like, in in the January, the the all the slates and gravel are, like, kind of still wet, and you see people doing pruning with electric scissors going up and down just like nobody's business. That's the kind of place that that had probably the most profound impact for me. And the the skill that I learned still carry with me into now in Canada that I apply them into vineyards during winter when I help with pruning and then even winery.
So I'm one of the weirdos that actually like pruning Yeah. In negative 20 covered in snow.
And Yeah.
But it's very fun.
We you know, so few songs
Mhmm.
Have actually done that kind of work and done that kind of work to the same extent and all over the world. Do you think being so familiar with how wine is grown, do you think that's really helped you be the somm you are today in terms of coming up with great pairings and understanding the beverage, or do you think that's just it was just a nice to nice experience to have but didn't make you a better song.
I think we'll make you more rounded song, like, not just about your palate Yeah. And and you understand the whole picture better, and you have a better connection to the vines. So when they talk about, like, your feelings and how they impact your view or the canopy management, you actually understand the input versus output. Yeah. The cause and effect, you understand why. Yeah. I think that helps a lot. And at the end of the day, the wine is made from a vineyard. It's from a vine.
Mhmm.
And you have to understand the vine before you can understand everything else. That's where that come from. Yeah. So wine doesn't come from a bottle and a bottle of wine. I love that. So, yeah, I think that's important.
What would be your desert island wine? You're gonna spend the rest of your life on a desert island. You can bring one one type of wine.
I would say, like, at least a lot of sweeteners that give you enough calorie to run around. Refreshing. What's this to life? That's why I've been probably surrounded by water, I guess. Yeah. Seafood. Yeah. Logical approach.
I love that. Yeah. And it goes back to what an impactful time you spent in Germany.
Yeah. Absolutely.
What's what's next for you? Are there any big goals you have in the industry? Do you wanna open up your own restaurant one day, create your own winery?
I loved wine. Right? But I also, like, found a passion in pottery. So I've been doing that for over a year now. Hopefully, one day, I will be able to put the two together, not to make terracotta or Amphora, but maybe, you know, have a space that can connect the two together, wine, pottery, or coffee, all those things under the one roof. I think that would be a beautiful things to do. So that would be beautiful. Well, cool.
Alright. Let's call it
a wrap. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you for
having me. Thanks so much for listening. I've got some incredible interviews coming up that I can't wait to share with you. So make sure to hit that subscribe button so you don't miss a thing. If you enjoyed this episode, a quick rating or review goes a long way in helping others discover the show. And it means a lot to me personally. Until next time. Cheers.