Welcome back to another episode of Tap Pens Babo Shoes at Scott Pioli Dan Orlovski is so glad that you can be with us to talk football with two of the best. Scott Pioli, of course, longtime general manager, breaks down the xers and os with that personnel bent and Dan Orlovsky. You always see him on ESPN, my college football partner as well, in front of the tellustrator breaking down film. That's what we do. We get behind the exers and osk here on ta peds and talk football
and guys. As far as I know, I think Matt Maggie is still the head coach the Chicago Bears. Dan should he be? There's the jumping off point. If there's a Bears fan out there, they want us to try and solve their problems with Justin Fields at quarterback. Can we are these solvable problems? I mean they're solvable problems
with different people running the operation and stewarding his development. Yes, I said after the game, I don't think that Matt Maggie should be the head coach anymore, and I would be. I would argue with anybody till the day goes dark. Give me reasons why give me reasons why? So to the football game, Justin Fields through twenty passes. Thirteen of those passes were in five man protection with not a single help to anyone on their offensive line. I don't
care who you are. That's not smart against the Browns. Go watch the Houston Texans game the week before. They shipped Miles Garrett almost every play. Let me know what Myles Garrett did in that game. So that's issue number one. They didn't move Justin Fields and athletic quarterback that's got dynamic playmaking ability, big, strong, powerful and fast. They didn't move into the middle of the second quarter outside the pocket. That's that's coaching mal practice. They moved them three times
total in the game outside the pocket. That's coaching malpractice. Um. They went max max protection, uh, with seven men in protection. One time. They had three snaps under center. Justin Fields spent the majority of his college career under center. They didn't use a single play action pass from under center.
They ran one snap with motion one. It's so my thing is, you had a hundred and forty hundred and forty nine days since the moment that you made the decision to take those picks, trade up and go get him a hundred and forty nine days to start building cultivating this game plan that was gonna be different because the player's skills are different, and you did nothing. And so my my opinion on it, my thought on it
is you're one of two things. You Either did it intentionally to try and prove a point, and I know what that is. When I say those words out loud, I hope that's that's not the case, or you are incapable of doing it. And if that's the case, how can you remain in that position? You didn't do it with Mitter Drabinski. You've had a hundred and forty nine days and you didn't do it with Justin. What makes me think you'll do it by next weekend or the
following week gend or the following weekend. I just it was an incredibly terrible game plan. Dan. I wish we all had our the listeners had viewing ability to watch you right now. Um, I M a little bit. The way you're grabbing your head. I thought it was gonna explode, But um, you know, here here's the thing. And I'm not going to get into people getting fired or whether they should be or shouldn't be. But here's I'm not a coach, but here's what I do know from a
little bit of coaching that I did. You know, I was and working in front offices, UM there are way different ways to protect the quarterback. And I was really
spoiled over throughout my career. You know, when I started as a graduate assistant coach, George di Leone was the offensive line coach and UM offensive coordinator at Syracuse, and back then we ran what was called the freeze option, and the freeze option is not too dissimilar from what we see now, which is r P O S and off of the freeze option, there are a couple of play action passes, but it was the detail of the play fakes and the first two steps of the offensive
line that were critical. And then later throughout my career got a chance to work, you know, with Kirk Ferrence, with Pat Hill, who went on to become the head coach Frezo State, fantastic offensive line coach Bill Murra who was a great offensive line coach, and then of course the great Dante Scarneck. You So, I got really spoiled because these coaches, the offensive line coaches and or coordinators were all aware of the strengths and limitations of the players.
They love their guys, right, they love their offensive lineman, but they were acutely aware of the strengths and limitations, and they would make sure that the coordinators would do different things to help with the protection, and that help would come by virtue of play calling, play action, the use of screens and draws. Right, we all know about chips, you know you can do, but the use of screens
and draws. You know, one way to possibly slow down a defensive line charge is to make the defense hesitate for one split second to get them tired, get them chasing up field, and then screen him, get him chasing up field, and then go draw. And if you can get that split second and good play action, that can be the difference between not only a sack, but also that split second for a receiver to create some sort
of separation for a ball to get in. So there's so many different ways, you know, we can't just say it's the offensive line is awful. Um it doesn't look
very good, but you've got to find ways. Also, again, you accentuate the positive and limit the limitations through play calling, through formations, through setting things up and Scott that's like, that's my sticking point of this whole situation is if you, as a coach, are gonna sit there and say or imply, you know, I don't want to put him out there because he's not totally ready just yet. I'm okay with that. I get that. No rookies ready most second quarter your
quarterbacks are. It's hard, it's a hard position. Then you better not to ask him one single time to do the things that you believe he's not ready to do. You know, if Justin Fields had gone out in that game and stunk it up, but they went with eight quarterback runs and they did twelve bootlegs, and they ran five screen passes and a couple of quick games and they stunk. At least I can sit there and say, all right, Justin Fields was he's not ready to go
operate that stuff yet. This offense is still too lacking in talent. And I gotta give credit to Matt Naggie because he tried, he gave, he did is all he could to try to figure out a way to manufacture some good offense. That wasn't the case. And that's why that's why I talked about the thing because this wasn't If Matt Naggie had drafted mac Jones, then that would be the offense that I expected on Sunday. That would be the offense schematically that I would expect it. Shoot.
If he drafted Zack Wilson or Trevor that would be an offense that I expected a little bit. The reality is you drafted a player that has a physical skill set, like a Dak Prescott or a Cam Newton. So those are the things that you should be doing. And the fact that you didn't do that that's why I talk
about the h days. I'm I question why how? Because if I can see it, and you can see it, and my wife can see it, and my kids can see it, and the people across the street can see If everyone, for the most part can see it, how does the person not in control of it not see it? Could the guys from Derby see do you think, Dan? I don't think so. I mean seeing decades of their performance, No,
I don't. I don't think it is a good point though, because obviously I'm watching Zach Wilson, and I am watching him look like he is looking at a defense where there might be seventeen guys on the field. At least that's the way he's playing. But then you compare him to Trevor Lawrence, you compare me even to the game Matt Jones played this past week. It's okay for a rookie to struggle. Playing quarterback in the NFL is really
really hard. Number one and number two, The guys like Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady and Russell Wilson and Matt Stafford, so on and so forth, who are really good at it, make the fans think it's a lot easier to do than it actually is. So when they're watching justin Field struggle. But you're right, the the frustration is is his team doing everything or even anything right now to put him
in the right position. And conversely, now we see Baker Mayfield right like Dan, you've seen Baker Mayfield now and we've got about a minute, minute and a half left in this segment. So, guys, just a quick thought on why Baker has taken the steps forward that he has taken when you compare and contrast him with playing justin fields in that game. I would say, for someone myself who's had Baker's back through all of his NFL career,
the highs and the lows, I've had his back. This is one of the games that I was at least most proud of his performance. There's four or five plays in this game where he holds the ball and tucks in and runs, holds the ball, throws it away, and and that to me is going ha, He's realizing the only way, the only way they lose this football game is if he does something stupid with the football. And that is growth and maturity and development in ownership of
the game. And that's the greatness. That's what the greats have always done. And I just I was proud of the way he game managed this game. Yeah, and I'll say this. You know, you said a keyword, and this was the word I was thinking this entire week after the last couple of days after watching He's always been smart. He hasn't always played with maturity and made mature decisions.
And I'm not saying he's immature. He made some extremely mature decisions that were in the great for the greater good of the team and not trying to do too much. We can both things are critical being smart and mature. You know the other thing, I think it's helping Baker Mayfield. He's got the to the best one to running back combination in the National Football League. You go back and you watch that fourth quarter, and I watched it closely.
They went at a three tight end sets, different formations, but three tight end set and they ran the ball fifteen times, not counting the neel downs, fifteen times for a buck one a hundred and one yards because they just brought it. And when you as a quarterback have that threat and you have you know, last week I talked about the the extended running game, having the flexibility with Kareem Hunt and have it's like having Kevin Falk.
It's like having It's like having any good We used to call them third down backs, but down they're change of pace backs or they're receiving backs. Those things are definitely helping mature. Hey, this is a sport about difference makers, and they've got difference makers on that side of the ball. There was no doubt about it. Now some teams that right now are stumbling, the Colts the Seahawks. Is their hope for both of those teams to rebound and maybe
make a playoff run. Those are two teams. We look at what we come back on tapeds. Welcome back to Tay Pets, Bobo Shoots and Scott Pioli Dan Orlovsky. Alright, two teams that at the start of the season we thought could have Super Bowl aspirations, sputtering to say the least to start off the year. The Seahawks will get to them. At a second. Let's start Dan with the Colts because one of your all time favorites. Obviously Carson Wentz getting a fresh start in Indianapolis, but they are
oh and three. What is going on and how do they fix it? Here's where I am with the Colts. Obviously, we know that the schedule was daunting and they've dealt with some stuff with injuries. Carson Wentz hasn't had practice time, you know, and really the whole year outside of the springtime, and that's showing itself a little bit. Now. Carson Wentz is playing good. He's not playing great, and he's not playing bad. He's playing good. The offensive line is not a shell of what it was, nor what it was
expected to be. Their right tackles not playing. Nelson goes out, their center is not playing nearly as good as I expect. I thought this again, would be a one of the offensive lines in the NFL that we would go, hey, look at all the protection in the run game that's being afforded, and this offense can do a lot of different stuff. And so a lot of the things that we saw start to play itself out in Philadelphia for Carson Wentz are playing themselves out in Indianapolis, and that's
shocking to me. So it's really difficult to gauge what the offenses right now by the player, their offensive line. Their red zone performance has just been poor. They get down in the red zone because they move the ball relatively well, they get down there and they just stall out the run game. It's it's sometimes I feel like the backs are just trained so much just go ahead, you know, when they're not necessarily running with great vision. And then in the past game there's the other day
they have Michael Pittman on a crosser. I think he gets tugged on a small little post. I think he gets tugged and that becomes just an inches out extension miss and then on third down Zack Pasco drops the ball. They're not equipped enough to overcome some of that stuff they missed. He why Hilt and speed. Beyond words, they just don't have any kind of vertical threat in their past game. It's all catch dingk dunk catching and throws are difficult right now for this offense when it comes
to guys at least stretching the field. I would like to see them put Carson Wentz under center more used more hardball play Ashton to try to generate some of those three level, big chunk throws. I think that's what this offense now. They got to hang in there. It's a long season and this schedule has been daunting, but I think that's a little wrinkle that they can put into their offense to try to generate some more success.
And it Scott to Dan's point. I mean, right now, you got Jonathan Taylor, who wasn't really a pass catching threat. He's averaging about fifties seven yards a game rushing. They're probably pretty predictable when he's on the field personnel wise, But how how from a personnel standpoint would you try and mix up an offense right now that, as as Dan said, underachieving, especially with an offensive line that's not nearly what we thought it would be. Yeah, and Dan
brought up a great point. You know, but I the one player that I want to put a little bit of emphasis on is the absence of Quentin Nelson. You know, we talked earlier this week and we're talking about the Cowboys and the importance of Zack Martin. That's who Quentin Nelson is. He brings not only his physical you know ability, but he brings his style of play and it is infectious.
So to me, the absence of that, compounded by the inconsistency at the quarterback position and people that they're just an offense that can't get into rhythm there without t Y Hilton. You're talking about three players that are probably the best at certainly the best offensive lineman, certainly the most important wide receiver, and their best quarterback. So when you have, you know, circumstances like that and your offense isn't doing enough to sustain drives, that puts additional stress
on the defense. So as a team, the other two facets of the meaning defense and special teams are going to feel the impact of the offense not playing well. So to me, some of the injuries and the absence of the players they have and who they are and how important they are in terms of again just their identity and their style of play is a real problem. Bob. Can they fix it? I guess that's the big question. I'm not a doctor. If they get healthy, I think
they can fix it. But to your point and and question, yes they can if they're healthy. And that's always the magic, you know, the magic question. You know, we're again not to digress here, but we're talking about the Buccaneers. One of the things that are that's different about the Buccaneers this year, they were one of the healthiest teams in all of football. They had the fourth healthiest offensive line.
When you have a team that stays healthy and players work together and you can evolve and grow and there aren't those hiccups, you know, that was part of the Buccaneers magic. Right now, you're looking at the Buccaneers. Their defense is having a lot of issues because they're without two really important secondary players and it manifests itself into inconsistency. So if they get healthy or healthier, they will have a chance because they're really well coached and they know
what to do. Yeah, there are certain teams in the NFL where you know, they have the ability to be kind of chameleon like, but there are other teams in the NFL where you look at their roster and you say, all right, we know how this team wants to play. They want to mash you with their offensive line. They want to run the football. They want to have you know, as you guys said, speed on the outside and a t Y Hilton where you can go hard play action
after we run it at you. And right now, they can't do either of those things because they're they're just not healthy enough to execute the way you know they want to play, and that has to be really frustrating. Dam Let's switch gears and talk about the Seahawks. How can they fix it? For the second week in a row. The realities that Seahawks defense cannot get off the field. If you go watch their Week one performance against the coach, you go, okay, you know, you know that we were
able to create some pressure on the quarterback. We can get off the field. The last two weeks, they haven't been able to get off the field. Their third down coverage, the leverage that they play with is the complete opposite of a team like the Los Angeles Rams. Defensively, the Rams play with great leverage. If it's covered three, you've got to be in the right position flat defender, hook defender.
If it's covered one and we're playing outside leverage because we're playing a cover one robber or thief for whole you gotta play on their proper leverage, funnel people to the right guys. They're not doing that, and it's making it so easy for offenses, especially in crucial situations, third down situations when game plan specific stuff come into play, and that's hurt them. Of the last two weeks, defensively,
their offense has been okay. They've sputtered at moments. They've had some things easy early on for they can't get off the field on third down. They've got to change, not do I want to say changed, They've got to really get precise and refine the rules of their coverage. Well, it's got the defense obviously a problem, But are their offensive issues for the Seahawks as well? And what buttons does Pete Carroll push to make it right? Pete is gonna push the buttons. He's all is gonna push the
buttons on defense. He and Ken Norton Jr. I I really believe that they will get the defense right. How many times and how many different seasons do we you know, the Seattle Seahawks go through a struggle either at the beginning the middle, you know, three quarters of the way, and what happens is Pete puts on the gloves, goes to work and starts knocking people out. So I'm not too worried about the Seattle Seahawks and their defense. Pete
will get them right and they will start doing things right. Way. On the offensive side of the ball, You've still got a guy who's one of the best quarterbacks in the National Football League. So again, Russell Wilson, the explosion this year or the continual growth of Tyler Lockett, what they need to do is continue again get off the field on third down and let their offense go to work,
eat up clock and score points. One of the things I do want to see them do on offense a little bit more, though, is get the ball in the hands of Chris Carson a little bit more. Run the ball. That's part of Pete's identity, right Pete is he is not only tough minded, he's just a tough guy, and and that's the identity of his football teams. I think we haven't seen the best of the Seahawks yet. But again, I'm not too worried. I think we're going to get that as time goes on this season. Have they put
too much over the years on Russell Wilson? Man? It might, but just be the natural inclination with all of his ability to maybe look at him and say, look, you need to be the absolute focal point of everything we do. Whereas when Russell Wilson was at his best, he had that pounded at you running game to supplement what he does. You know, that's a great question, Bob. And here's what I'll say. Was it the offense and the offensive coordinators and the play calling that puts used to put too
much on Russ? Or did Russ put it on himself? It's different, but similar as I watched Kyler Murray right now, and the fact is there's place called, there are things that are supposed to be done, but Kyler Murray makes the decision he's going to put the offense on his back and he's going to do some of these things. So I don't know, it's kind of a chicken or egg thing with me. I don't know if if Russ did that to himself or if it was part of the design, But I think his Russ starts to get
a little bit older. Um, let's face it, some of the dynamics stuff that he does outside the pocket is still outstanding. I don't know if he can do it as to a great level consistently over the course of a season. So I think that they do need to think about that. And and going back to the running game, Bob, that you mentioned and I had mentioned previously, that's always been a big part of any Pete Carroll football team.
It'll be fascinating to watch these two teams, all the storylines with the Colts and Seahawks, but there is no more fascinating matchup for us to talk about than the one we're gonna get to next, the Mark he matchup of Week four, Bill against Tom. Can Belichick stop Brady?
How do they game plan against each other? We're gonna talk about the big one coming up on Sunday night when we come back on tapeds well here on tape its obviously there's a Thursday night game tonight, but the marquee matchup that everybody's gonna be talking about through the rest of the weekend towards Sunday, We've got Bill versus Tom. The Patriots and the Bucks is Tom Brady makes his return to Foxborough and guys, we will leave you know, all of the drama and all of the talk show
topics to someone else. What what this podcast is about is the XS and os. This podcast is about the strategy between these two teams. And I'm just I'm fascinated by all of the years that Bill Belichick and Tom Brady spent together and how they are going to now take that experience and try to attack each other. I'll
give you a quick story. So when Eric Mangini came from that whole world in New England to coach the Jets, and I remember before a Patriot matchup asking him, so, what's the plan, and he said, look, here's what we're gonna do. We've got This is when they had Ty Law. They brought Ty Law in because the Patriots had Randy Moss and they had to l Revus, they had Carrie Rhodes or really athletic safety, and they said, here's our plan. And this is what Derek Mangini told me. I'm gonna
take Ty Law. I'm gonna put him straight up in Randy Moss's face. And every time Randy Moss comes off the line of scrimmage. Thy Laws basically gonna punch him in the chest because he doesn't like to get punched in the chest. And then I'm gonna take carry roads and put him over the top. That's gonna x out as best we can Randy Moss and I'm gonna put Revus on Wes Welker. It'll take Tom Brady one possession maybe two to see what we're doing. I can't double
everybody else. He's gonna pick out the mismatch. He's gonna burn us. We're just gonna have to do the best we can. And at the end of the game, like Daniel Graham had a bunch of catches, Jabbar Gaffney had a bunch of catches at a touchdown, and exactly what Eric Mangini was worried about came true. He picked out the guys he wanted to ex out, and he knew Tom Brady would see that and he would take advantage of the other matchups. And I'm wondering, does Bill Belichick
sit there and say the same thing. I mean, I know the guy for twenty years. We'll take away what we know we can take away. We can't take away all of it. And how fast into the game is tom Brady gonna see what we're taking away and he's just gonna respond. See And that's gonna be the beauty of this game, Bob, is the fact that Bill Belichick spent twenty years with Tommy and he knows what his
strengths are and he knows what his limitations are. What Bill does every game is finds the top one player or the top two players, and he finds and devises a way to eliminate those players and to force them to go and do something else. So they're going to find a way to try. They're gonna try to find a way to get to Brady. Then they're also gonna be working very hard on whoever they deemed to be
the top skilled ball carrier. And what's gonna happen is, as you say, Brady is smart enough, he's going to figure out pretty quickly he understands part of the Patriot the way that things were done there were was half time adjustments. A lot of teams talk about half time adjustments. The paid it's generally made their adjustments near the end of the first quarter and the second quarter, and then
when even more exponentially at halftime. So it's gonna be a really interesting process to see what Bill goes after and what he's going to do. You know, I I go back to the time when being with coach Parcels Belichick, Romeo Cornell and Al grow when we were with the New York Jets. They had spent time on Belichick was only there one year with the Patriots in ninety six, but they knew and we knew Drew Bledsoe inside now we knew what his kryptonite was and we attacked it
and we went after all those things. And so to me, this is this is gonna be a very intriguing matchup to watch. It's not gonna come down to all of this stuff that we're hearing about. It's going to be about football. And I think, as someone said as we were leading into this, it's gonna be spy versus spy, and things are going to change on the fly because you've got people that are so nimble and smart and have the ability to change. Yeah. I mean, I can
talk about this game every day leading up to it. Um, you know, I think this is a game that the loss are not having Stefan Gilmore for the Patriot defense will show itself. A big question mark is does Antonio Brown play if Antonio Brown is available. The Patriots just don't have the horses to line up and play man coverage. They just don't have the humans and and having the ability to play coverage. I think Bill is gonna play
a ton of zone, just a ton of zone. And because I don't think Bill is gonna give them the opportunity to at least have the likelihood of these chunk plays. Um, I think that he's gonna try to attack the play action pass protections of New England. May I could see him on play action when they win New England or excuse me, Tampa Bay. When Tampa Bay brings that sixth offensive lineman in the game, they either run the football or go heavy play action and try to get to
seven man protection. I could honestly see Bill Belichick in those situations to reaching his defensive lineman to drop back to just you know, almost have eight or nine guys in coverage, given what the personnel and the situation is for Tampa because and when I know it's like well, Dan, it's either run or plaction debt. But that's all they do. You could teach those guys almost what he did to
Sean mcveigh's the Super Bowl. Six guys at the line of scrimmage, one guy in the middle, bang against the run, and if it's past, we're all dropping back. And that's how they took the play action away from the rant. And I could see something similar to that and where they're just making Tom play checked down and check down and check down and almost going you watched me do this for twenty years. Two guys, are you gonna be the person who I get as well? Type of thing
are you gonna make? Because Tom's aggressive with the football right now down the field because he can be, you know, so I think that's gonna be the philosophy, or I could see it at least. And then for the other side, for New England's office against Tampa's defense, I mean, incredibly disappointed in the New England offensive line right now. I thought they would be an absolute strength of this football team and they're not playing that way and it's hurting
the quarterback. He's not playing great, but it's hurting the quarterback, especially since he's young. And the second thing in Scott you could really talk about this a little bit more. Is one of the things that I thought separated in New England for a long time was they never had guys really that were man coverage dudes. They had guys that won and man covers. But Josh and coach Charlie Weiss.
But Josh did such an awesome job of scheming things up to beat man coverage, meshes, picks, rubs, two man and three man stuff. They're not doing it right now. They're not doing those man beaters. They're just asking Jacobe and Nelson, Kendrick and John just line up and win. And that for me to watch is so oddly, I guess frustrating because I'm sitting there and going, man, how come you guys aren't doing more of the stuff that
you've done for a long time. So, you know, I think the screen game for Newing this offense is going to be a big deal. Max is gonna be able to get completions against this defense. They're not gonna play a ton of man. They're gonna play their soft zone. Um. But if they do decide to play man Tampa Bay, New England's got to start going back to their roots. My thought on that is, first of all, the screen game is gonna be different. It's gonna be different without
James White. He's not gonna be there. That that's gonna be be an issue for them in terms of, you know, having strong personnel is a really interesting thing because sometimes we all get seduced by how talented people are and we kind of let our guard down. And I'm not saying that's what the Patriots are doing right now, but you bring up a really interesting point because they're not doing some of those things. I don't think that they
won't be doing that for long, right. I think once they figure out that they don't have dudes who can separate all the time, they'll do certain things. They'll get back to the rubs, they'll get back to doing things with formations and routes that that allow them to create separation.
But here's the other thing about separation. Number twelve was special because the amount of time that he spent and I'll never forget this, it was There are a lot of times when people say, oh, Brady's not that accurate. You know, how did you see how that receiver had to make that catch down by his gun strings, how he had to do and the play by play guy, how accurate Tom Brady is good. Lord watched it for
twenty years. Shut up. But people say that early in his career, Bob, early in his career, people thought that it was a lack of accuracy. Early, I would say the first three just like he couldn't throw the deep ball because he didn't have to. By my point is he put the ball. His throws created separation and his work together. You know, we talked a little bit earlier about Cooper cup and Matthew Stafford. There worked together. You know.
Part of what went on in the Patriots too, was there were receivers if they weren't willing to do all the extra work, get their early day late, do all the little things, be as smart as know with that one look, the look of the eyes, or the quarterball. If they didn't learn Tom's body language, he ran the dudes off. It didn't matter how talented you were. We had a number of high, you know, second round picks that had all the tools and the skills in the world.
They weren't willing to put in that work and be able to do the things to handle the separation that Brady would would create by his throws. So I think, you know, Dan, You're right, there not doing some of the things from a scheme standpoint, but there were also some things being done from a preparation standpoint and a skill standpoint by Brady. And you know what, I'm really glad you also, guys got to the other side of the football, because I can't wait to see how this
game plays out. It's gonna be all Bill versus Tom. That's all anyone's gonna talk about all the way through the weekend. Todd Bowles, who loves the blitz against a rookie quarterback is an equally fascinating XS and ose element of this game. And I'm really excited to see how it plays out on some day. When we come back next week on Tuesday, we're gonna be talking about this game, obviously, and we'll see how this all breaks down. Because Week four has arrived in the NFL. We are back on Tuesday,
and we will have a ton to say. I'm sure about Bill versus Tom and the books. Take it on the Patriots. Thanks for being a tape pen. Tape Heeds is a production of I Heart Media and the NFL. You can download the tape Heeds podcast on the i Heart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts