From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Colley.
Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness and low vision. Welcome to the program. We've got a jam packed show for you in store this week as we honor stellar, who's moving on from Vision Australia after 15 years, including, of course, five years as the host
of Talking Vision. Stellar caught up with me to say farewell to our listeners, but also have a look back over the past 15 years of her involvement in radio, as well as other roles such as working with the Vision Australia library. That conversation is coming up right around the corner, so make sure to stick around. And then after my chat with stellar, you'll hear an excerpt from one of the first interviews she did as host of Talking Vision with a researcher and participant in the Bionic
Eye trials back in 2015. I hope you'll enjoy this special episode of Talking Vision. Today is quite emotional for, well, not only me, but a lot of the other Vision Australia radio crew and the Talking Vision crew as Stella is heading off to explore some new adventures. It's my
great pleasure to welcome Stella on to Talking Vision. Not for the final time by any stretch, but to say farewell and thank her for all she has contributed both to talking vision and passing on her years of wisdom and expertise to me to help make talking vision the best it can be. Stella, welcome back to Talking Vision. Thank you very much for your time. Oh, thanks.
For having me on the show.
Sam. Now, it's a bit of a special bit of an emotional conversation we're having today, as this will be your final conversation on Talking Vision.
Oh.
I don't know. Do you think you'll have me back on again? Absolutely.
You're more than welcome in various other capacities, Liz. For sure. No worries. But yeah, it's a big time. You'll be heading off to explore other opportunities after 15 years at Vision Australia. So how do you feel looking back over those 15 years? What are the emotions that are kind of running through your mind at the moment?
Oh well, bittersweet, I would say. Like, I'm really excited. It's time for me to move on and explore other opportunities. But it's interesting when you start leaving an organisation, people start saying really nice things to you and you know, and now I'm like, oh, do I want to go? But so bittersweet, I would say, and emotional, of course, when you've been somewhere for 15 years and Vision Australia
has certainly meant a lot to me. I don't feel because I work, uh, you know, you get to know the library members and Vision Australia clients, not forgetting staff as well. You know, you sort of in radio, you're on, you're sort of connected to the community. You are so so it's yeah, I would say that it's a little bit sad, but at the same time, I'm excited.
You mentioned people there, and quite a few of your roles have been quite heavily involved with talking to people, allowing people to tell their stories, but also helping people out more generally in the community. So what's it been like interacting with so many wonderful people over those 15 years?
Yeah, it has been wonderful to steal your words there. It's been a learning curve. So I was a coordinator of volunteers for six years before I stepped into the communications role and taking over talking vision. I don't think I have ever felt so accepted by a community before, you know, as someone who is fully sighted. But I had a real passion for radio and I really wanted to talk to our community of interest and provide the information that they needed and wanted from the radio program. Yeah,
it was really it was. I won't lie, there were times where I felt a little bit nervous and am I saying the right thing? Am I doing the right thing? But the thing that really helped me is that I actually listened to people, and I had someone like Stephen Jolly really supporting me and talking to me, like really mentoring me in those early months. Probably up to a year. Yeah. And it was great. Really fantastic. Yeah. Illuminating.
I would say that's a wonderful word. And had you done much radio before you came into Vision Australia?
Certainly well before Vision Australia, I had done some and I was still in a local Melbourne community radio station, so I had done some butt ploughing in, so it was a bit of a dream coming into Vision Australia radio. Yeah, and I wanted to do more.
And certainly had the opportunity to do more with Talking Vision, as you mentioned, and allowing so many people to tell their stories. So what does it mean to be a storyteller from your side of things and allowing people to give their insights and their stories?
Well, I don't know. It's just about to say nobody can tell your story the way that you can, like that person can, but sometimes you might need a little bit of help to tell your story and the platform to do that. And I think radio, you know, it's absolutely the perfect place. I'm also a writer, so I you know, I like helping writing people's stories as well. And I think storytelling is so important because it's it's
about that lived experience, isn't it? Yeah. And you want to be able to believe that person saying that.
You've been involved not only in talking vision, but quite a few other programs such as Hear This and. Author author over the years, with quite a heavy involvement from the Vision Australia library, but also a close association with Francis Keeland, one of the people we mentioned earlier in the interview, people coming back into it. So what's that been like to blend that love of radio and love of writing and literature?
Oh well, an amazing place. Vision Australia, is that it has a library and a radio station. The two big love of my life. And now I'm wondering why am I leaving then? So I became when I was a coordinator of volunteers, I actually was in a show called Tropical Island and that was on Saturday nights. And that was all different topics where we read about that. So that was great. And I was also already involved with
Francis Keelan when she was doing here this. So it's just exciting because I get to talk to authors as well. Like I can't speak more highly of it and fun. It's been really great and I hope it's been well received by the listening audience because we're having a good time doing it and we think it matters. And hopefully it does matter.
I'm sure it does. I'm certain there's a lot of people out there that absolutely love to hear these programs. They're very well received. I'm sure we've had a lot of wonderful feedback. And, you know, that comes directly into your work with the library outside of radio, with so many events and so many books and conversations that have gone on over the years. So what's it been like to work with the library team as somebody who does love literature so much?
Oh, well, like I was saying, it's on a par with working with the radio team. And what I love about the library is that they're really open to doing so many great events. So it's been a bit of a privilege. I feel like I've been in my role, so I'm in communications and marketing, but I've been really lucky in that I've been able to be in radio and in library and in marketing and comms. So I feel like I've, you know, worked across the gamut. Yeah.
You've done the whole package for sure. Um, and let's go back to when you came in to Talking Vision after you had been mentored by Stephen Jolly and all you'd learned from that, and then you passed that information on to me 4 or 5 years ago when I came in as a.
Young youngling.
Career start, graduate and, um, you know, jumped into the world of radio. And that's something I'd been involved with in student broadcasting for quite a few years. But yeah, it's just been wonderful to learn everything I know from you. And it wouldn't be the same show without you. So that's one of the things I wanted to do today, is to thank you for all you've contributed to Talking Vision, both as a host and as a mentor.
So I want.
To make you cry, though. That's why I'm sort of don't want to go on about it too much. I don't want to make you cry on.
No, no, I'm not gonna cry. That's really nice. And and I will say that as much as, you know, it was. I loved doing the show and, you know, loved talking to people who are blind or have low vision. And I felt very welcomed by the community, our listening audience. And I knew that you needed a radio person behind the mic. I really thought, I want the next person to do the show to be blind or have low vision. And then I saw you and went, right, okay.
Yeah. And it's been a whirlwind. It's been a roller coaster. It's been a wild ride. It's with the, you know, all the euphemisms. Well, the handover happening during Covid, that was. Yeah, that was a bit of a challenge. But we got through it together so you know. Yeah. Oh yeah.
Well if you're going to learn something, go in the deep end.
Oh absolutely. For sure. Now I'm going to throw a bit of a tricky one at you Stella. Now having done so many interviews over the years, do you have a favorite?
I knew you were going to ask me this. I don't want to say a favorite just in case, but for me, I really like I still remember my first one, one of the if not the first interview I did. They were doing trials of the Bionic Eye and I think it was Doctor Lauren Ayton. In fact, I know it was. And they had a woman who was blind and she was participating in the trials as well. It was just it was just an amazing conversation. I just
loved it. And I thought because it was it was about science and it wasn't something I was familiar with as well. And the person who was blind and talking about it, she was so excited and they both had this amazing connection as well. So that was a favorite one because it was one of the first ones. It was. So completely different from anything I had known. And then other favorite ones is when I have been talking to, um,
younger people as well and hearing their resilience. There was one young woman I spoke to, she lost her vision in a workplace accident, and, uh, she had been living in rural Australia and she had to move to the city, which because, well, she actually wanted to as well, but there were more, uh, opportunities. And she was able to
get around a little bit better. Um, so that was a bit of a favourite one too, like there's been so many and hearing about, of course, the Braille music camp that I love, and it's really the ones where people are just getting on with their lives and kind of, you know, forging ahead and making a difference to their lives and to other people's lives.
And that's palpable when they have that excitement about what they're doing and they're so engaged. And that also makes our jobs easier as interviewers, when you get people come in and they absolutely they're so passionate about what they're doing, what they're involved with, and that really rubs off on the interview. But also that goes out to the listener, of course. And that just makes for such wonderful radio. And, you know, being able to enable people to tell those
stories as we've mentioned. So, you know, that's an absolute highlight for sure.
Yeah, that's that's a great word palpable, isn't it? I think my least favorite ones are probably, you know, sighted politicians. I remember one federal election talking to one particular politician who's no longer in politics. And even at that time I thought, yeah, I really don't like you, but you have to, you know, you can't you cannot go in with the audience knowing what's going on in your head as well. Yeah. And I can say, I don't think
I've ever had an argument with anybody on talking vision. No, no. Maybe behind the scenes.
Yeah, maybe. Maybe off air. It depends. But you know, there's been other interviewers and other radio veterans that both of us have worked quite closely with. You talk about politics there. And that's where Peter Greco comes in as a name who's really rubbed shoulders with quite a few politicians and grilled them to, you know, yeah, as, as much as you can do in a friendly way. But he really sort of gets to the bottom of things and makes sure he gets the answer well.
After he's in a bit of a fortunate position too, because he's, well, one that's the nature of his show, but also as a volunteer, whereas I'm a staff member and I have to, you know, I can't be putting people offside as such. Not that Peter does, but Peter talks to everyone and pretty much the same way in a very grounded kind of he doesn't stand on ceremony as such. No. Yeah. No. He's someone good to aspire to be like. Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. And that's where one of the influences has come hopefully through my stint in Talking Vision, getting influences from, of course, you and Stephen, but also having listened to Peter and the way that he carries out his interviews as a radio veteran of over three decades, which I just think, oh my God, he doesn't like to talk about it because he's just, as you said, so grounded. Yeah. And he doesn't want to talk about himself, and that's fine.
But he's just such a wonderful person, as you said, to aspire to. But finally, Stella, is there a message that you want to end our conversation with? Do you want to sort of give our listeners a bit of a, um, well, not so much a I wouldn't say final because, you know, it's not final. Well, not my eulogy. No, certainly not. But just to wrap up with, do you have something that you'd like to sort of let our listeners know on just a message for them?
Yeah, I'd just like people to know how much I have loved working at Vision Australia and being a part of Vision Australia Radio, how much I have loved being on air and how much I have such respect for. Look, I'm just going to say it for blind people and for people with low vision. I think you're all fantastic. I always have a soft spot, and that may sound very patronising because you're not. People aren't all the same,
but forever in my heart as such. Yeah. And thank you very much for listening to me over the years and for putting up with me as well, and for all the fantastic feedback I've received.
Oh well, it's been a pleasure, Stella, to listen to your programs, but also for me to be so heavily involved as the host now and having, as I said, learned so much.
Oh, Sam, you're a champion. You're a champion.
I won't go on too much about it because I think we'll start bawling. So I think we'll have. So wrap it up for this stellar. It's been an absolute pleasure to catch up with you today as always, and all the best for the future.
Thank you so much, Sam.
I'm Sam Kelly and you're listening to Talking Vision on Vision Australia Radio. Associated stations of the Reading Radio Network and the Community Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed my conversation there with Stella as she heads off from Vision Australia after 15 years. We wish her all the best in her future endeavours and can't wait to see her back on talking vision down the track. So fingers crossed. Let's see what happens. And now we switch roles and
take a bit of a trip back in time. As Stella interviews Lauren and Dianne, who were both involved in the bionic ear trials back in 2015.
With me today is doctor Lauren Ayton, Bionic Eye clinical research team leader and research fellow at the Department of Ophthalmology, University of Melbourne, and also Doctor Dianne Ashworth, Deakin University Social Work Department, Faculty of Health in Geelong. And Lauren Ayton is giving her research update of the bionic eye and Dianne is the trial participant. Hello Lauren and Dianne and thanks for coming on today.
Hi, Stella. Hi, Stella. It's a pleasure to be with you.
Just very quickly, just to set the scene. Lauren, what does bionic mean?
It's an excellent question. It's. It's sort of a word that really evokes the idea of the $6 Million Man, doesn't it? Um, but Biomedical bionics really is the field of research where we're trying to develop different devices that can restore parts of our body that don't work properly. So things like the cochlear implant for hearing impairment or prosthetic limbs, if you've lost a leg or an arm, for example, an injury. And so the bionic eye is
a similar sort of thing. So we're trying to use our electronic device to give back some sight to people who have lost their vision.
There are two types of bionic eye. Or this bionic eye is a very specific one related to the retina.
Yeah. That's right. There's actually a whole lot of different groups working on bionic eyes. There's about 35 different groups around the world now, and everyone uses slightly different technology. So there are devices which the electrodes that we use to give back vision go into the eye. And then there are some groups where the electrodes go into the brain. So there's a group at Monash University that are doing
that type of device. So the one that we have tested recently where Di was one of our wonderful participants, is a device that goes into the eye, but it actually goes in behind the retina. So it's a very safe location and very easy to get to surgically.
Diane, what vision do you have?
I have retinitis pigmentosa or RP. Uh, so I have lightened up perception. Um, so and I have only had light and dark perception for about, oh, just over 20 years, 21, 22 years. So, um. Yeah.
And what could you see with the bionic eye?
Um, spots of light, um, which the scientists called phosphenes. Um, they were supposed to be, you know, like all these lovely little circle spots, but they weren't. And I'm one of three participants, so, um, I was the first one to, um, uh, I suppose be switched on is what they call it. So. Yeah, just to even find out whether it was going to work or not. But yeah, these spots of light would come off, um, the implants in my left eye. So
where I would see the phosphenes is in my right eye. So, um. Yeah, vision Lauren can fill that in, but vision seems to be always upside down and back to front. It was an amazing experience. Um, I don't know how much you want me to go into here, but, um, I yes, it's going to be something that's going to be, I think, useful in the future.
Uh, what was the commitment involved in.
18 months at first. And then they asked, would I extend for another six months? So all in up it was two years. So, uh, for the first 18 months was one day a week. And and then after that, it was two days a week. I came in and got tested. So it was, you know, quite a, I suppose, a commitment in my time. And. Yeah, it's funny, I'll give you a little bit of a human side of it. It's I was testing a lot in the, the booth in the Bionic Institute in Melbourne, and it's actually where
all the cochlear implant stuff was done as well. And so we'd be testing thresholds and things like that and quite laborious stuff that we had to do. So I thought, okay, we need to, you know, bring a little bit of this in. So in come the chocolates. So, so there'd be chocolates, you know I. Oh, we did well in that one. Okay, get the chocolates out. But, yeah. No, look, there was a lot of stuff that had to go through and a lot of, you know, a lot of
hard work. And the three of us, the three participants, put a lot of hard work into it.
So I'm sorry to interrupt. I was going to say, like, I just yeah, just to confirm that it was amazing. So all three of these people came in, gave up their time for at least 1 or 2 days a week. And, and it was really sort of. Yeah, like I said, quite laborious testing. So we didn't know anything about how this device worked. So the testing was very basic, very repeated. And they did brilliantly.
So what what were some of the laborious tests that you had to do?
Well, one of the I think the three of us, um, you know, loved this is sarcasm. Um, it's called, uh, testing the threshold now and what it is like, you know, safety, safety, safety was, you know, the main key of all this, this testing as well, you know, what's going to be safe for use and that. So I had no qualms about,
you know, me being put into danger and that. But to test it, the lowest level that phosphenes could be detected so that, you know, understanding, you know, at that lowest level of, um, I'm going to say electricity or stimulation that, you know, it needed to be for sight. So and that was quite had to concentrate a lot
because I've got all swirls in my eyes. And if people have got PP, they'll probably go, yes, I've, I um and and when the stimulation would come, sometimes it was hard to tell whether it was the stimulation or whether it was, you know, the swirls in my eyes that were, that were, you know, reacting in some sort of way. So I actually said to them, you know, at one point, because I didn't want to give any false information, it all had to be, you know, what was,
you know, correct in that. So I'd say, oh, maybe. And they go, yep. Okay. Yeah. So they used to interpret that, you know, is it like we went through a lot of a lot of repeating and that is, you know, to get, you know, the results at the end of it. So I'm actually very proud to have been a part of it from when I first saw the Phosphenes you do think, oh, you know, what are these all about? You know, um, as the testing goes on, you know, you're working through, you know, you first off, um,
it's called psychophysics. Um, so they sent the, the stimulus through directly through the, the wires into the implant, then that, um, graduated onto using a camera. So the information from the camera camera would then, um, you know, go through all the mechanisms and stimulate the electrodes in the eyes. And it was this day I can remember, um, you know, using the camera, moving my head around, and, um, and I just said, oh, I forgot the camera was there.
And I felt like the information that I was seeing was coming through my eye. And I'll never forget that feeling. It just it was like, um, yeah. It was like it was becoming normal. Um, and my brain was just getting so used to the information. So a part of it is learning what you're seeing, I think, and really, you know, connecting to that, that thing as a normal part of, of what you're seeing.
We see emotion involved with that.
Look. There's been I wouldn't say emotion as such, but there's there's been I feel warm even thinking about it. It's sort of like gives this warm feeling in your heart. It's it's just maybe information that your brain just, you know, loves to get. I don't know, I have no, you know, I don't know the answers, but I know when I see the phosphene the first day when I saw them, it's like, oh, you know, there was one that, um, well, they sent in this, um, stimulation that, you know, because
they thought, yeah, you beauty this is working. So it went through and it sort of lit up the whole array of that's what it seemed to me of, of the phosphenes. And I just went, wow, you know, and Nikki was in the booth, said, he said, is that wow good or wow bad? And I said, that's wow good. It just like I said, the feeling is, um, it's hard to describe, but it's a it's a really wonderful feeling.
Diane the Bionic eye is now turned off. Yeah. Would you turn it back on? Would you do all this again?
Yes, yes I would for the part. Look, look in two ways I would, because when I started with this research I never thought, you know. Oh yes, yes, I'm doing this because I really want a bionic eye. I did it to help the researchers and, you know, and and be a part of something that's exciting as well. Um, being a part of it has shown me that there is going to be use for the bionic eye, particularly in the software and the different elements that Australia is,
is developing, I think. Yeah, like I say, there's going to be real use in in what is there. So I would put my hand up to help with the research again. But I'd also put my hand up, um, you know, later on for the full device.
I've been speaking with Doctor Lauren Ayton, who's Bionic Eye Clinical research and research fellow, the Department of Ophthalmology, and doctor Dianne. And Ashworth, who was the trial participant in the research. Thank you both so much for your very important work in this area and for your commitment to the research as well. And thank you for your time today.
Thanks, della.
Thank you. Stella.
And that's all the time we have for today. You've been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you. So please get in touch any time on our email at Talking Vision. At Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all one word at Vision Australia. Org but until next week it's Sam Colly saying bye for now.
You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us any time during business hours on one 308 4746. That's one (300) 847-4106 or by visiting Vision Australia. Org that's Vision australia.org.