Dirk Dujesiefken

Talking Trees with Lillian Jad . Welcome to Talking Trees . In today's episode we bring you an inspiring conversation with Dirk Duyesefken , a highly respected German arborist . We'll explore his lifelong dedication to tree care , his journey to founding the Institute of Arboriculture in Hamburg and his vision for the future of the field .

Welcome back everybody for another deep dive .

Yeah , this time we're really branching out , aren't we ?

We are it's all about urban forestry this time're really branching out , aren't we ? We are it's all about urban forestry this time , and we've got an amazing interview to dig into from the 2023 Arbor Chat and this interview with Duk DeJosefekian . It's packed with insights .

He really is a legend in the field .

Okay , so for those just tuning in who might not be familiar with DeJosefekian's work , set the stage for us .

Well , you could say he's been a champion for trees his whole life . I mean , we're talking decades of experience , research and advocacy . What I find most fascinating about him is how his own path kind of mirrors this growing awareness of trees in urban settings .

Right , it's like his career blossomed right alongside the field itself .

Exactly .

So take us back to his early days . He starts out studying forestry right Back in the 1970s .

Yeah , which think about it back then arborist as a term , as a profession , it wasn't really a thing yet .

It's crazy , isn't it , how much things have changed .

It really is . But even back then , during his forestry studies , you can see this fascination with the urban environment starting to take root for Dujasifkin .

And a lot of that stemmed from a pretty unique experience he had right , the 1973 International Garden Exhibition

And suddenly , boom , he's immersed in this world of urban green spaces , seeing firsthand how they could transform a city . You know .

It must have been eye-opening .

Completely . And what's really interesting is this was all happening right when the book the Limits to Growth was making waves .

Yeah , that was a big one 1972 . Right Long before like mainstream environmentalism Right ahead of its time Right , but it really got people thinking about our impact on the planet and I imagine , for Dujas , ifikan , those two things the garden exhibition and limits to growth it all just clicked , didn't it .

Yeah , it did . Yeah . He saw the vital role trees play in a city's well-being and , at the same time , this growing need to protect them , especially with cities becoming more and more concrete jungles .

Right , because it's not just about planting trees . It's about understanding them , advocating for them , making sure they're actually thriving .

And that's really the heart of Dujasufan's work . He doesn't just love trees , he fights for them .

And a big part of that fight was recognizing a need for , like formal structures around tree care , which leads us to the late 1980s right .

Exactly DuJasifin . At this point he's deep into his research but he starts to see this glaring gap in the field of arboriculture .

Like what was missing .

Well , for one , there wasn't really a unified approach to research , like arborists were doing great work , but it was kind of scattered , you know , and there wasn't a central place for sharing knowledge , for learning .

So there was this need to bring it all together Exactly , and that's where Drew Jasekin steps in and founds the Institute for Bound Flage .

Huge moment . He saw a need and he took action .

He really did , and this wasn't just some vanity project . This institute became the foundation for so much of the progress in urban forestry we see today .

Totally agree , and it's all rooted in those three pillars . He established education , research and consulting .

Okay , so unpack those a little for us . How did they work together ? What was the vision there ?

Well , the education part was huge . It was about taking all this complex tree science and making it accessible , not just for scientists but for practitioners , for enthusiasts , for anyone who wanted to learn .

So almost like democratizing tree knowledge in a way .

right , yes , and then , of course , you have the research pillar , which , for Dijasifkin , it wasn't just about doing a few studies here and there , it was about this ongoing dedicated exploration into how trees function , especially under stress in urban environments . I mean his dedication to research over 40 plus years . It's incredible really .

And it's that research that really forms the backbone of everything else right , the education , the consulting , it all stems from this solid foundation of knowledge .

A hundred percent . But then you need that third piece , the consulting , because knowledge is only as good as its application .

Exactly so how did that play out ? The consulting ?

Well , it's about bridging that gap between the science and the real world , taking all those research findings and working directly with communities , with cities , to actually address tree-related problems .

So it's like this beautiful cycle the research fuels the education , which then informs the consulting , which then sparks new research questions .

A perfect ecosystem for urban tree care .

I love it , and it's through this multifaceted approach that Dujasufcan makes some of his most significant contributions , wouldn't you say ?

Absolutely .

And his research on pruning . It revolutionized the way we think about tree care .

It really did , you

Right , just making the trees look nice and tidy .

Exactly , but his research showed how crucial proper pruning is for a tree's health . Like if you don't prune correctly , you can actually weaken the tree's natural defenses .

So it's not just about making them pretty , it's about understanding their immune system essentially .

Precisely and how to work with those systems , not against them . Dujazivkin's research showed that with the right techniques , pruning can help trees thrive . They live longer , healthier lives , and the impact of this I mean his work on pruning has been translated into like 10 languages , with more on the way .

Wow , that's incredible Talk about a global movement for better tree care .

It really is and this deep understanding of tree biology . It's also at the heart of his work on the Kodite model .

Okay , kodite , compartmentalization of decay in trees Right Sounds kind of intense .

It is , but it's also fascinating . Basically , Duterte-Zivton cracked the code on how trees heal themselves .

OK , I'm listening .

Yeah .

Tell me more , because I thought trees didn't heal the same way our bodies do .

They don't . So when a tree gets wounded , it doesn't just like regenerate new tissue . Instead , it compartmentalizes the injury . It basically walls it off to stop the decay from spreading .

It's like it builds an internal barrier or something .

Yeah , and the CODIT principle as Dujazifkin expanded it . It helps us understand how those barriers form , how effective they are , even how different pruning practices can impact the process . It's like having this like x-ray vision into the inner workings of a tree . Having this like X-ray vision into the inner workings of a tree .

That's a great way to put it , like we can now read a tree's history , its health , by understanding how it's compartmentalized . These past injuries .

Exactly and that knowledge . Then we can use that to make more informed decisions about how to care for them . Moving forward and this is where his work in Hamburg comes in , because in the 80s his team they pioneered the first tree risk assessment system in the city .

This was at a time when , wasn't it like , if a tree looked even a little bit iffy , they just like chop it down .

Pretty much Decisions about removing trees . Yeah , they were often driven by fear back then , right .

Big tree , scary Old tree , get rid of it .

Yeah , and due to Sifkin's system , it really challenged that . It brought in this new era of like informed decision making , using science-based assessments to figure out , ok , which trees actually pose a risk and which ones can be , you know , safely preserved .

It's like moving away from this , like knee-jerk reaction to a more nuanced data-driven approach .

And that was huge , especially for mature trees , which Duzisifkin always emphasizes how important they are . They're like the crown jewels of our urban forests .

Oh , I bet , because those older trees they just provide so much more , don't they ?

So much Shade carbon absorption they clean the air . Losing a mature tree , it's like losing a vital organ , almost .

Right . And speaking of knowledge , do you see , if you can ? He's not one to keep all his discoveries locked away in a lab somewhere . He's written like tons of books and articles , hasn't he ?

He's incredibly prolific . He really wants to make this knowledge accessible to everyone , not just scientists . He's written about tree biology care protection . His writing has been so influential even beyond academia .

And it's not easy to take complex scientific concepts and make them understandable and , dare I say , interesting for a wider audience .

He's really good at it and on top of all that , he's an honorary professor .

Talk about dedication . He could just be relaxing on a beach somewhere .

He's got this passion for nurturing the next generation of arborists Absolutely . And it's not just formal education either . He's also like a driving force behind these massive conferences the Deutsche Bonfleischetage , for example .

Okay , for those of us who don't speak German , what is that ?

Oh sorry . It's one of the biggest arboriculture conferences in Germany . It brings together scientists , practitioners , policymakers everyone who's passionate about trees .

What a cool idea .

It is , and Dujeskin has been a lead in voice at those for years advocating for better communication and collaboration in the field .

So it's like he's building bridges between research and the real world , making sure that all this knowledge is actually being used to make a difference .

And that's what's so inspiring about his work . He's not content with just studying trees

But he's also realistic about the challenges . Oh , I bet , because even with all the progress we've made , there are still some pretty big threats facing urban trees , aren't there ?

Absolutely , and Dujasifkin himself identifies three main ones climate change , emerging diseases and , of course , good old fashioned urbanization .

Okay , yeah , those are pretty big ones . Let's dive into those . Climate change first , I guess , because that feels like the 800 pound gorilla in the room these days , doesn't it ?

It really does . As temperatures rise and rainfall patterns change , even established trees are showing signs of stress .

We're seeing it everywhere , aren't we ? Drought , heat , stress , trees are struggling .

And it's easy to forget how much we rely on those trees , especially in urban environments . They do so much for us , you know cooling our cities , cleaning the air .

They're not just pretty decorations right , they're essential for our well-being and , like you said , it's not just climate change they're dealing with no .

There are all these new diseases and pests popping up too which do you just ?

seeievkin talks about a lot , right , like he mentions those diseases myceria on plain trees and pseudomonas on horse chestnuts . They're becoming more and more common .

Yeah , and those are nasty worms . They can wipe out entire populations of trees and because they're often introduced from other parts of the world , our trees they haven't had time to build up any resistance .

Their immune systems just aren't ready . So it's like they're being hit with this double whammy climate change is stressing them out , and then these new diseases come along and it's like game over , exactly .

And then , on top of all of that , you've got urbanization , which is almost like a silent killer .

How so .

Well , think about it this way as more and more people are crammed into cities , our urban forests , they're losing their habitat .

It's like we're loving them to death almost . We want more trees for all the good they do , but we're also squeezing them into these tiny little spaces .

Exactly . And to Jacev Ken he says this is why we need a fundamental shift . We need to move away from this tree care mindset to a tree site protection mindset .

Tree site protection . Okay , I like the sound of that . What does he mean by that ?

So tree care that's often focused on the individual right . How's the tree doing ? What can we do if it gets sick ? But tree site protection , it's much bigger .

It's about the whole environment the tree lives in right .

Yeah , the soil , the roots , making sure the trees have enough space . We have to remember a tree isn't an island , it's part of this interconnected web .

Which we forget sometimes when we're sticking them in these little concrete squares .

All the time , and Josephkin is a big believer in teamwork . It's not just on arborists , it's architects , city planners , all of us working together to make our cities places where trees can actually thrive .

So it's not just about planting more trees . It's about designing our cities in a way that supports them long term .

Yes , and this is where Joseph Milliken gets really fired up about preserving mature trees . He's not a fan of that term climate trees .

I've heard him talk about that . It's like a pet peeve of his or something .

Well , because he's like , all trees are climate trees , they all contribute .

What worries him is this rush to just plant new trees sometimes overshadows the incredible value of the mature trees we already have , because a brand new tree , even if it's some super species or whatever , it's not going to give us the same benefits as a hundred-year-old oak .

No way , those mature trees . They're the heavy lifters . They're absorbing

It's like losing a library or something . All that history , all those benefits just gone .

It's tough because you need both right . Planting new trees is important for the future , but we can't forget about the ones who are already here working so hard for us .

It's about respecting our elders , at least in the tree world right .

Exactly , and it goes back to that tree site protection idea creating an environment where trees can thrive for generations .

So , even though Dujasifkin is this like world-renowned scientist , there's also this real activist spirit to his work , isn't there ?

Oh , huge . This isn't just academic for him . He wants to get his hands dirty and save trees , Like right now he's doing this really little project with the University of Hamburg they're trying to save horse chestnut trees .

From that bacteria .

Yeah .

The one that's been wiping them out everywhere .

That's the one Pseudomonas . It's nasty , but what I think is so great is they have this goal to have a solution within three years . They're not messing around . This is real world problem solving .

That's so inspiring , though , because it shows how much power there is in applied knowledge , right ? They're taking what they know and actually using it to make a difference .

Absolutely , and Dujasifkin is always pushing for that .

Because it's one thing to say protect trees , it's another thing to actually give people the tools to do that right . Absolutely . It's another thing to actually give people the tools to do that right , especially with all the development happening 100% .

He wants to make sure everyone , from developers to everyday citizens , feels empowered to advocate for trees .

It's like he's this amazing mix of scientist and advocate , and so humble .

The best combination and , honestly , that's what makes him such an effective voice for trees , because it's clear he really truly cares .

You can hear it in his voice when he talks about trees .

You can . This has been a really great conversation .

I agree . I feel like I learned so much preparing for this deep dive into Dirk Dujasuken's work . And you know , it's easy to take trees for granted , especially in a city . But he reminds us they're not just these passive things , they're alive and they're doing so much for us , even when we don't realize it .

It's true , there are silent partners in this whole urban living experiment , aren't they ?

They are and they deserve our protection . So next time you walk by a tree , maybe give it a little nod or something .

I love that A little . Thank you for all the hard work .

Exactly A little . Thank you for all the hard work . Exactly Until next time everyone keep looking up . Thanks for tuning in to this special edition of Talking Trees . We hope you enjoyed this insightful conversation . We truly appreciate the support of our subscribers , as your contributions make it possible for us to bring you exclusive content like this .