Conservation Arboriculture (Neville Fay)

Talking Trees with Lillian Jadd . Welcome to Talking Trees . It's Saturday and that means we're dedicating today's episode to exploring trees as central hubs of biodiversity . Every week , we'll dive into the fascinating world of the organisms that live on with and under trees , live on with and under trees .

Have you ever just looked up at one of those massive old trees , those ancient oaks , and wondered what if it could talk ? What would it tell us ?

I know exactly what you mean . There's a presence to them , isn't there ?

Totally Well . Today we're diving into the world of those ancient trees , learning how to really care for them . We've got a ton of research on conservation arboriculture to go through . Oh perfect yeah .

And a lot of it focuses on the work of this UK expert , Neville Fay . Okay , so I'm familiar with some of his stuff . He's got that YouTube interview right and then some really interesting academic papers .

Exactly those are the ones . And what's so cool is he goes beyond just , you know , appreciating how old these trees are .

Right .

He wants us to really grasp that these trees , especially the ancient and veteran trees , they're like entire ecosystems .

Yeah , absolutely , I mean you think about it . They're supporting this whole hidden world of life that most people just completely miss .

Like walking through a forest and not even realizing you're in the middle of this . Like bustling city , but for you know insects , fungi , all that .

It's amazing .

And one of the things that really struck me was his term veteran trees . It's not just about age , it's about those marks of time . You know the hollows , the decaying wood .

Yeah , the stuff that maybe we don't always think of as beautiful , but is actually really important .

Exactly , and phase is like no , no , those aren't signs of a tree in decline . Those are signs of a thriving ecosystem .

It's such an important shift in thinking .

Total .

Because you know we've gotten so used to this idea in arboriculture of keeping things safe and tidy .

Right , like it's someone's perfectly manicured yard .

Exactly , and Fay's point is that often misses the mark , especially when it comes to ancient trees , like he even talks about how back in the day they used to fill cavities with concrete . Oh wow , Can you imagine ? He calls it arboricultural archaeology . It's like trying to preserve a crumbling castle by filling it with concrete .

Yeah it might look stable , but you're completely disrupting the natural processes . So instead of seeing dead wood , you know , like a dead branch , as a problem , as something to remove . He wants us to see it as like this essential thing Totally essential . For all this biodiversity .

Absolutely , and that's where his research on endophytic fungi is so fascinating .

Oh yeah , those are those tiny fungi that live inside the tree itself .

Exactly . They're like these microscopic tenants that are usually just dormant .

Okay .

Kept in check by the tree's natural water flow . But what Fay's work shows is that when we mess with that balance , you know , through things like improper pruning , we risk waking up those fungi and that can actually harm the tree .

So even with good intentions , we could really mess things up .

Absolutely . It's like introducing a new species to control a pest , only to find out it throws the whole ecosystem out of whack , and that's why Fay keeps stressing this idea of tree time versus human time .

Oh , I like that Because we think in decades and they think in what Centuries , millennia .

Exactly , and he has this great example . It's the Arthur Clothoak . There are get this over a century's worth of photographs of this tree .

Wow , that's incredible .

Right and they show how unpredictable its growth was , how it responded to everything around it , and it just proves how much we still don't get about a tree's behavior over time .

It's wild to think . 100 years of observation and we're still surprised . It makes you realize that even our smallest interventions can have huge ripple effects .

Absolutely .

And those effects play out over decades , even centuries , in the life of a tree . So wait , are we saying that keeping things tidy is actually bad for these trees , like all that raking and sweeping ? We think we're being good , but Well , it's not that simple .

But , Faye does make a really interesting point about our modern desire for a controlled landscape . He says it can actually be a problem for these ancient giants .

Hmm , interesting .

Yeah , and he uses this really cool historical perspective . He talks about pollarding . Remember hearing about that ?

Vaguely .

Remind me . So it was this practice super common in Europe , where they'd heavily prune trees like almost every brand .

Oh yeah , I think I've seen pictures . They end up looking kind of I don't know severe .

Exactly , and Faye says that over time people started to see that as unsightly or even damaging to the trees .

Because it didn't fit our idea of this perfect like symmetrical tree , of this perfect like symmetrical tree .

Exactly , we started valuing , like our aesthetic preferences , what WE thought looked good over the actual ecological roles that those imperfections played .

Huh , that's fascinating .

Right and Fay , he points out that these practices like pollarding , yeah , they were often about human needs , you know , for wood or to shape the landscape , but they also created all these little openings , these wounds and hollows that actually helped foster biodiversity .

So something we thought was harmful was actually good , yeah , in a way .

Yeah , it's all about perspective , right ? It's a good reminder not to assume we always know best . And this is where Fay brings in the soil .

Oh the soil . What's he saying ? Don't rate the leaves .

Well , kind of . Yeah , he actually calls the soil and I love this the basis for practice .

Oh , I like that . It likes the base . Yeah , we often forget about what's going on underground , don't we ?

Right Out of sight , out of mind , but Fay really stresses how soil health is absolutely key to a tree's well-being . He talks about soil porosity , how much air and water can get through .

Makes sense .

And then the problems with compaction . You know from foot traffic , machinery , all that , and of course the microorganisms , the bacteria , the fungi , all that stuff that's invisible to us but is doing so much work down there .

Yeah , it really is a whole hidden world under our feet . It's kind of humbling when you think about it this massive tree reaching up to the sky , and it's all supported by I don't know a teaspoon of healthy soil .

Right and Faye's point is that this underground world is under threat . He talks about the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization . They put out this report . It's actually pretty alarming about how much of the world's soil is degraded and obviously that directly affects the long-term health of our trees .

That's a bummer . So what are we supposed to do ?

Well , Faye's not all doom and gloom . He reminds us that we can learn a lot from the past . He talks about this idea of vernacular arbore culture .

Vernacular .

Ugh .

Okay , gonna need a definition on that one .

Basically , it's about looking at those traditional practices . You know things people have done for generations to care for trees , not looking at those traditional practices . You know things people have done for generations to care for trees ?

not because it's trendy or anything , but because it works Right those time tested methods . Yeah , so we should be looking back to go forward .

That's the idea . It's less about constantly trying to invent some new technique and more about like rediscovering the wisdom that's already out there .

And I'm guessing that means a shift in how we think too .

Totally . Instead of trying to control everything , it's more about collaborating with nature .

So less pruning shears , more dot listening .

Exactly . It's about learning to read the trees , understand their individual needs . You know , work with those natural processes of decay and regeneration instead of always fighting against them .

That's powerful . Instead of always fighting against them Hmm , that's powerful . Like , instead of seeing those gnarled branches as something that needs to be fixed , we embrace them as part of the tree's story .

Exactly , and that's really the core of what Faye is getting at seeing these ancient trees not , as you know , just individuals , but as vital parts of this much bigger interconnected web of life , a web that deserves our respect .

It's definitely a different way of thinking . We're so used to this like problem solution mentality , see a problem , fix a problem , but with these trees it sounds like it's more about I don't know observation , understanding , patience 100% , and it's not just about how we view trees either .

It's about how we understand our place in nature . Faye talks about this a lot , how our actions have these ripple effects .

Okay , ripple effects , how so ?

Like choices we make here in our own backyards . Even they can impact ecosystems on the other side of the world .

Wow , okay , that's kind of a lot to take in . Impact ecosystems on the other side of the world . Wow , okay , that's kind of a lot to take in . It can feel kind of overwhelming , to be honest , like how much power we actually have . It really makes you realize that caring for these ancient trees is a huge responsibility .

It's true , you know , what Faye really drives home is appreciating them isn't enough . We have to actively protect them , and that means really understanding what they need , like not just the basics , but all the stuff we've been talking about the soil , the fungi , the timescales .

Right , it's a whole different way of thinking about trees . So what does that mean like practically ? Are we going to have to send all the arborists back to school ?

Well , maybe not back to school , but Fay definitely thinks we need a new generation of arborists , people who are trained in these principles of conservation .

So not just someone who knows how to use a chainsaw .

Exactly . It's about understanding the bigger picture they have to know about biodiversity , ecology , history , even .

Wow , ok , so we're talking like arborists who are also historians , ecologists , almost like tree whispers .

Something like that . But Fay really believes that if we can bridge that gap between you know , the traditional knowledge and modern science , we can make sure these trees survive .

It's amazing to think these ancient trees have survived for centuries , some of a millennia no-transcript .

It's a big responsibility , but it's also , I think , a huge privilege to be part of that effort .

Totally . It makes you realize that just stepping outside and seeing a tree is not just about the beauty of it . It's about recognizing its history , its role in the ecosystem .

It's like each one of those trees has these stories to tell . We just have to be willing to listen .

Well , on that note , I think we'll leave our listeners with that thought . Next time you see one of those ancient trees , take a moment to really see it , appreciate its story and think about what we can do to ensure those stories continue for generations to come .

Thanks for joining us on Talking Trees . We hope you enjoyed today's exploration of conservation arboriculture and the incredible contributions of Neville Fay . If you found this episode insightful , don't forget to subscribe and share it with others who are passionate about tree care . We'll be back tomorrow with more engaging content , so stay tuned , as always .