TD&T121 Does food fit

edition. And it's the chapter that's written by Suzanne Dawson and Sue wood Griffiths now, we've already had a conversation about this chapter in the book club, but we thought we'd come up with come together the three of us and share some of the highlights, I'm expecting that I'm going to do less talking and Georgia and Claire them to the talking because they're the experts in the room today. And the chapter is, does food fit in

design and technology. But before I go any further, I'm going to get Georgia and then Claire to introduce themselves, say where they are, who they are, what they do, and where they're based. So over to Georgia. Hey, I'm Giorgio, and I am a food teacher in the southwest of England. And I also lead design and technology across a trust within the southwest. Quite a lot of schools actually. Yeah, how many schools have you got? 27? Yeah, and spread over quite a long, big geographical

area. So Devon and Cornwall? Yeah. Massive. So you got this nip around the corner now? Yeah. Okay. And I think we're going to talk a little bit later about some of the demographics and how that might affect how you teach food in different areas. So Claire, you've been on the podcast before, people will know you, maybe, but you want to tell us who you are and where you are.

technology in a rural secondary school, again, in the southwest of England. So it's lovely to meet Georgia, because we are kind of close proximity. So it'll be great to speak with you this evening, Georgia.

bit better. So this chapter does food fit in design and technology by Suzanne and Sue. It's an updated version from edition one. And it to me it felt like a really essential debate to have in the book because does food fit? And they start by saying yes, it does. No, it does not. And it's not so much that they're talking in the chapter about the subject itself. It's whether it should be located within design and technology, or whether it should

be in the curriculum. They start with an overview of the historical context, putting home economics and food as part of economics, because don't forget that home economics actually had textiles in it as well, pre 1992, how that was included in the national curriculum. They talk a little bit about that, actually, it's quite kind of political in a way because if it didn't go into technology, where would it have gone. But there'd been some work around in the mid 80s, with some books around

different school subjects. And you could see that there was there was some commonality across what was then CDT and home economics to bring those subjects together. But it's always had this tension, and they discuss this around, whether it's about teaching children how to cook, or whether it's about being part of a career,and whether you can design with food in the same way that you might design with other

materials. So they explore this in this chapter, and how food teachers sometimes felt frustrated about how the differences around food were potentially ignored that yes, you could design but you wouldn't do it in the same way of using the same approaches that you might do. In for example, if you were using with metal or plastic where you might sketch that's not necessarily

appropriate for food. And then what was happening over time was the discussion about what was going last was around science and where science knowledge fitted in with with food technology. And then these further revisions that have gone on which led us to this situation in 2010 2011 when there was a debate about food and nutrition with when Henry Dimbleby and others got involved in sort of lobbying government about that to now in the 2013

national curriculum. It now sits as almost like a subset of sub subjects and design and technology it's quite a strange sort of placement of it but you know, and food is still mentioned a material within the national curriculum it talks about and then they talk go on to talk about food and health and how foods on the curriculum to address young people's health prepare them for looking after themselves discuss childhood obesity, and whether some of the what was

it called? Let's get cooking was a distraction from what design and technology food was about. So that may well have kind of sidetracked taken out of design and technology but it's still with it. So it's always had this tension about me discuss this, is it about health? Is it a part of a curriculum? And if it is, is it the curriculum? Is it

around employment as well. So then go on to discuss different, excuse me employment opportunities that come with that, and recognise the fact that the a level post 16 has now gone for food as a as a subject, which kind of then begs the question, where's the progression within the subject? So they conclude with asking again, and so does food fit, you know, there has been an evolution, and that some people would argue that it should be there. And it's more than a

craft skill. It's more than a function of what home economics used to offer. But actually, it is part of food preparation, preparation, nutrition, part of that addressing health, but also, it is part of a general education for children that's not necessary about health or learn to cook, but as part of a material errand a subject to know about. So I'm hoping I've given a good enough overview. Did I miss anything? Children, Claire?

have in common? If anything with other material areas and design and technology? That's question two, and some discussion around about the demographic and social background of the young people in schools? And does that have an impact on their ability to do well in in the subject of cooking, nutrition, or food and nutrition, and whether it should be compulsory? So that's a quick

overview. So Georgia, and Claire, if you could write a food curriculum, what would be the key learning objectives and course content?

and the Southwest. And I think that's mainly because of the City College we have which deliver a really, really good level two level three qualification in catering for students to aspire to move on to that wants to become chefs and work in the hospitality industry. And we've also, we also recruit quite a lot towards the Navy, and they go in there as chefs because of where we are. But through my research, and a lot of its stemmed from Christine counsel, Mary Myatt, reef Ashby, and the importance

of core concepts. So we, I must have changed the core concepts within my food curriculum about six times over the last year. And we finally narrowed it down to three, which I think are really quite good. And we can generally link all the content back to them. And they are, we just check that always in my head, usually, nutrition and health, culinary knowledge, and cultural and

environmental awareness. And we strongly believe as a trust, so we came up with them as a team, that nearly every topic can be led back to them, they are they do form the spine of their curriculum, and everything can link back to it. So that's our starting place. And then with that, we did quite a lot of work around sequencing, and how, how can we structure that massive design and technology curriculum and link it back to these core concepts so that it becomes a

spiral curriculum. And eventually, students will start to chunk information together, and then reduce that cognitive load. We've spent loads of research around that as well. So we've done loads of research about writing curriculum before putting in the actual design technology curriculum. But those three core concepts I think, are, are they're finally there, obviously, they could change. And they probably will evolve. But right now, we're happy with them. And we have been for a

little while, and they're on stickers for books, so they have to stay that way for a little bit. But within those time,

yeah, it does. I know that the stickers are printed, but within those core concepts I've picked out so if we focus on a Key Stage Three curriculum, so your 789 There are, I'd say six big topics that I like to teach and which I think create, I don't know it gives students access to really powerful knowledge, whether they leave food at the end of year nine, or if they choose to take it into a GCSE option. But these are the things that I would have liked to have known when I found if I had

finished food in year nine. And they are obviously hygiene and safety is the first one we do in the end, it's your seven, then we do nutrition. year eight, and we move on to special diets and learning how to modify recipes, we move, we look at food, provenance, seasonality, food waste, and students are so interested in it. And most of the time, my theory lessons around these are just discussion. And it's really enjoyable. And I can see how

engaged they are. And I can see them thinking, and they'll catch me in the corridor. And they'll say we've avoided food waste this weakness, or I froze the bread, so we didn't have to throw it away, or I use those bananas to make banana bread. And just little things like that. It's just changing their way of thinking. And then in year nine, as kind of a feeder into GCSE science, and the GCSE food prep and nutrition, we look at a lot of microbes, bacteria,

how we use bacteria safely. Lots of different things within that and industry. So hasip, and eh, oh, which they will eventually meet in most of their careers, they will always have to do risk assessment and health and safety training. And that leads itself into a qualification in hygiene and safety as well, which is really useful. But

iterative process as well. And sorcery ingredients. But an idea taken from the chapter is for that year nine. So that end point of my key stage three curriculum is to be able to design and make a tasty nutritional meal from a food bank parcel, which I absolutely loved. And I can't believe I didn't think of it.

Is it that we are looking for that career based that kind of vocational subject? Or is it for that wider? Science? Not, you know, what is the purpose? What are our children going to get out of it? And I guess, like you said, your city college offers a great hospitality and catering course. So they have something very clear that they can go on to do with that. And I assume if you've got links with the college as well, and they do, yeah, tasters and does it seem chef?

throwing away ingredients? And we're in a bit of a world we're going to talk about that later, aren't we?

the full spectrum. Yeah. And if we don't give children those access and and there's quite a lot of research about this to the GCSE whichever the GCSE whether it's an English maths or whatever design and technology, cooking and nutrition, food nutrition, then actually we are we are limiting them again. Yeah, we were already say, Well, you can't cope with this GCSE. So we're gonna get this

qualification, which actually then going to cut down options that you've got for future life. So we're kind of almost reproducing the social situation. Yeah. And the economic situation that that they're in, we're perpetuating it by? Yeah. Yeah. Giving them a different qualification. Anyway, so that's my little rant off on a track there. I've got to have one in the podcast. So let's stop on that one. So that's

about the curriculum. Do we I mean, Georgia, you've talked about your things that it has in common, really, with your core concepts. Is there anything else that I would be want to add about that? What does What does food have in common, if anything with with the other parts of design and technology loads?

similarities. But that might have been a biassed, because I was very much a designer technology teacher, and not a food teacher as I saw it. So that might be my own bias. I see. However, now, the I think sustainability is very big in both of them. I think that is something that that topic carries through very nicely. And I think that's very important for the children to see. And it is about that selection of materials, so or ingredients as

it would be in food. So I do now that I've worked more closely across the subject area, I can see some relations. But I found sometimes I would get frustrated almost and find food almost a bit more limited. And maybe not as allowing the pupils to think outside the box almost. Because how the lessons are often structured, it would be quite a short duration of time often, for instance, I've worked in schools for 50 minutes an hour, they might be single lessons.

And all the children might be told that they are making flapjacks or they're making spaghetti bolognese, or whatever it is. Actually, it's very much this is the instructions, this is following those instructions. Which obviously, we need to do because they need to know the basics. They need to get to use the equipment and the techniques and the skills. But then I almost felt limited by that creativity, because I felt there wasn't much options to allow the children to express their

creativity. So it's great in terms of the challenge, like making the food bank project, where you're getting them to design a make something out of that. Okay, so yeah, so I can kind of see both sides of the fence, I can impart me screaming out that actually, I don't know whether food should be placed in design and technology. I'm not 100% Sure. Because part of me thinks actually, is it more of a PSHE thing in terms of what are

we trying to teach them? Are we trying to teach them to be healthy and to be healthy human beings and to fend for themselves? Or are we trying to teach them some of the more Have you know and I could be completely wrong. But more kind of the creative kind of thinking outside of the box, that iterative design, I don't know if that can be sometimes more limited sometimes in the way, the lessons I've observed can be structured, etc.

there is a process. But I guess if it was strictly focused throughout the year, every year in key stage three, and there was no chance to develop that creative problem solving, that creativity that expressive art, like Gary Littlewood said, was it think like a scientist and demonstrate like an artist. I love that. And that links directly to design and technology. It needs to stay in

there. It needs a bigger chunk, I think because it's very much at the end of the national curriculum is a bigger chunk. Yeah.

here. But I think that does sort of lead us on to a little bit when we're starting to talk about the opportunities of weather, and weather where the children are, and you know, their demographic and social background as well as some question for does that impact on their ability to do well, in subjects? And we talked about this quite a bit in the book club, around providing materials who should provide them? What does that does that limit things? Does it open things up?

And how do people handle that? So again, over to you too?

forth. I thought to myself, gosh, how much money have I spent on ingredients for my son to be able to undertake this subject. And obviously, we are fortunate because I teach full time. So I am bringing in that constant wage, etc. However, some families, this occurred to me, they may struggle to pay out such an amount, and therefore, you know, are we disadvantaged children in the way that he was lucky I could buy those

ingredients. But what if I really couldn't What if I was really on that breadline maybe not recognised as a PP parent, or free school meal parent because I was just above that border, but yet things were so tight that I really couldn't afford to pay out, you know, I think the chicken or something alone was five pounds. You know, that might be all I have to feed my family for the next couple of nights. So, yeah, so I was quite

fired up after this. And this really got me thinking about, about how we deliver the subject

in schools. Is it common in other areas for people to be asking for donations for the subject or for parents to provide the ingredients etc. And it did attract quite a bit of attention on the tweet where people came back with different ideas, what schools were doing, what they weren't doing, etc. But yeah, I think that is something that definitely needs to be looked into because I think it was drew Wiccan hi to Drew if you're listening, who said he absolutely agrees but

you know, a geography teacher wouldn't ask for the parents to be buying books for their children to the writing and in his eyes, mouth. is almost the same as the parents buy me ingredients. So yeah, so I don't know the solution. But as a parent, it really did get me thinking. And I think that we do need to consider that are we I know that we can go.

cheap. Macaroni Cheese making your own pasture as a high school, you can make a white cheese sauce, that's a high school, a lasagna, a vegetable lasagna, and you can get a really high grade for that. So there are ways that I feel teachers could help. And they could teach like I do. My key stage free curriculum only has very cheap, nutritious, but still high skilled dishes in them for them to prepare, just in order to help this socio economic crisis we were in because it's pretty big in the

southwest of England. And the disadvantage gap where we are in achievement is huge. So my that's one of our West Country trust, sort of moral imperatives as well. So that, yeah, I've put a lot of thought into that as well. So everything's got that in mind as well.

for free. But you've obviously put some put some serious thought, and I'm sure there's other teachers in the country now know, the few teachers centre, you know, Facebook and the work that Louise Davis and her colleagues do, they do quite a lot around supporting, supporting this, but it is a it is a real issue. I mean, you know, this idea, you know, where we see children who didn't bring their food ingredients in, therefore, taking part in the lesson I know,

pretty secure. salaried regular. And so, but some of the children, their parents aren't in that position. And so we don't always understand from where we sit, what it's like, for the children that we're teaching, and what the difficulties and the challenges are. And again, it's back to that thing that you're saying. I think they're Georgia about the recipes, and the the things that we want the children to cook, they've got to be real to where they are. Yeah, definitely.

Because otherwise, yes, we always want to be challenging children and moving them out of their place of comfort, you know, what I mean? You know, we want to talk Vygotsky there, you know, we're getting them out of that, you know, zone of proximal development where it is a little bit uncomfortable, and they are going to use some ingredients or do a process or, or whatever that they're not familiar with. But we're not talking about going to Waitrose and Marks and Spencers and buying truffle oil,

for goodness sake, you know. But it's it's about just that that shift. But it's but it's got to be within the within their context. But still having that ambition. So I really like the way you've thought about that. With that, that skill development and search, in terms of their knowledge development. And but again, it's been been affordable. Yeah, I think I remember hearing that. So I wasn't gonna talk very much, but I'm going off on one again, I

remember hearing that. Bake Off. The cooks on Baker have had to provide their own ingredients. Do they? Don't I really remember hearing that? I don't know if it's still true. I think it is. I don't whether it is on them. Master Chef, but But yeah, you know, so then then that already makes it a middle class activity. Yeah. Yeah, as you're saying, Georgia, that whole thing about the YouTube approach. It's an iterative process in such a way that it's

wasteful. Yeah, well, we're teaching children Not to be wasteful our way and then we're building it into an assessment system. Yeah. Anyway, there we

go. That's my, that's my Pennyworth for a moment. And we also want to chip in anything else about this. Demographics and social background are taken over. Now.

They will come in, they will get given the same ingredients, kind of and they can pick and choose which ones they do and don't want just to. Yeah, and it just, yeah, I love that. But I'm really lucky. If it works. Yeah, it does.

again? Or is it? Or is it the you know, we're pushing their creativity? Yeah, I think lower I think,

subject for. And if you took it through to the age of 18, you're now moving on beyond careers, you're actually moving more into preparing them to be self sufficient and to look at other people look after other people. You know, I kind of come back to Michael Rice's and John White's Aims of Education, which is everyone to have a flourishing life and help other people to do so to have a flourishing life. And I kind of think, if you can cook and do that for yourself into that furthers and then that

is one aspect of flourishing. So yeah, I'm kind of I'm kind of there with the eight team, but I'd want to be creative about what it looks. Yeah, thing. Would it be every week? Probably no, no, you know, yeah, it'd be it'd be a module. Yeah. Within within the course. Anyway, but thank you very much. Both of you covered a lot of ground there. I think we've got Claire out of the hole that you dug yourself into.

We've got some other podcasts lined up to look at the chapter by all recur around gender, gender in the curriculum, and also with Nicki Bluhm, about cognition in design and technology. So those are upcoming with other people in the book club. But thank you very much to both of you for the conversation. It's been good fun. Thank you.