Talkin' Cowboys: Who Steps Up?

twenty hopefully training camp coming up in late July. Once again, the Talking Cowboys crew, Rob Philip Harrison, Isaiah stand Back, our residence, super Bowl Champion, and myself Kyle Yeoman's all socially distant from our respective SWBC Mortgage studios and guys, I gotta tell you, I feel like we get the short end of the stick every now and again whenever it comes to the timing of our show being on Tuesdays.

I love the Tuesday slot, but it always seems like the top storylines and the fun things with the Cowboys this offseason happened either Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday or Thursday because last week. It was really kind of quiet leading up into Tuesday, and then Tuesday afternoon, all of a sudden, Alden Smith is reinstated, and now the Cowboys have a little bit more depth at that right defensive in spot. Yeah, we can clap for that. Yeah, we've got Alden Smith back.

But then you've got the Jamal Adams fun that happens later in the week. But heck, we're kind of on the short end here in terms of the timing of us talking about this stuff in that jacked up man, I feel the same way. I mean, we have got to get in the news cycle that happens before Tuesday, so we have something to talk about, but everybody else kind of but by the time it gets to us, you know, we're still muddy in the water. We're dragging that same topic. But at the same time, we make

it so fun. It looks so good. Oh. I like that, it sounds so good because we've got guys like Rob Phillips on the line as well. Because Rob, I mean, you were pretty quick on that Aldon Smith news last week, and we even kind of alluded to it going into the deal. Yeah, and you know what, it is a situation where the Cowboys had to wait for the NFL's

timing to get it done. I don't think the Cowboys really knew when it was going to happen, or for sure it was going to happen, because it just comes down to what Roger Goodell wants to do at his discretion. But I heard some applause from somebody on the crew, and that's well founded because this is a guy that has forty seven and a half sacks in fifty nine career games, and I don't think they're asking him to be a nineteen and a half sack guy like he

was in San Francisco. Just just moneyball this thing, you know, the movie with Brad pet just help piece together what Robert Quinn did for them last season. And that's kind of the key, is to have a guy like old and Smith come in and not necessarily be an all pro. You're not gonna get that same type of player like he was in San Francisco, as Rob just alluded to. You're gonna have to have somebody who's gonna be a part of a team and bring some experience, bring some

leadership into that locker room. In Isaiah, you're the one that's been in a locker room like that. What's it like maybe playing with a player knowing that a guy has taken some time off at least gotten a broad view of football and being able to bring that into his game. Yeah, I think he's gonna be coming in. Obviously, he's gonna be free. You know. That's that's number one. He said it. Man has had a lot of time.

He got as we like to say, he has fresh legs, you know, so we gotta fear of fresh legs coming in the locker room. I think with his pass, I think he'll probably come in and be a lot more mute than than you probably typically would from a VET. So he'll come in because he knows he has to reestab himself as a player, and he has to re establish himself as a leader, especially in a new locker room. So I think, you know, he comes in, he come in with all that experience, and I think it's gonna

be a great thing. But you know, and then he'll probably just be quiet and just let his game play, you know, show a short self. Hey, I want to make sure that I piggyback off of what you just said, Isaiah, because I feel the same way about Aldon Smith. I think there's this what if associated with him and also Randy Gregory and the you know, being reinstated. But I know for a lot of people there is the five year layoff and people just wondering how effective it is

Aldon Smith's gonna be. For me, I just feel like that five years, Yeah, he's gonna be a little rusty, but for the position that he plays, it's not gonna be as much of a lag as most people are thinking. I think if he played a skill position like maybe receiver or running back or even dB, that five year a layoff maybe you know, may have affected his game. Again, I'm not expecting him to come back and maybe be

and I wish, I hope he's a that guy. But at the same time, I just think him being effective and also looking at Randy Gregory as well going into the fold, guys, I just have a lot of hope for this position because I feel as though we are going to have a great opportunity with Alvin Smith in this defense and we'll get into that right defensive spot, defensive end spot rather a little bit later on than the show. Now, this is gonna be a fun show. We're talking about a lot of the trouble spots of

the Dallas Cowboys. We're gonna answer a lot of your questions the defensive line, tight end position, and also the cornerbacks. We're going to go through all three of those positions in depth over the course of the next hour. So stick around because we've got plenty of stuff to go

along with. But sticking with this defensive line. Last week, we kind of compared Tank Lawrence as one of those guys, DeMarcus Lawrence as the leader on that defense, somebody that needs to step up after having a little bit of a down here. Now he was coming off of shoulders surgery, kind of got off to a slow start, only had single digit sacks. Can he get back to that double

digit sacks? Sure's I'm sure that's on. That's the docket for Tank Lawrence, But Rob I kind of want to ask about just the factor of him being a leader with a lot of these younger guys and veterans all kind of meshing together. Noville Gallimore, Don Terry Poe, you got Jerry McCoy that's now in the middle of that defensive line, Bradley and I on the other side, what kind of role is tank Lawrence going to have in terms of bringing those two groups together. Well, that's a

great point. I think he's got to be more of that vocal guy on the defensive side of the ball, and I think that was kind of a new role for him last year. I think they they put that on him to be more of that locker room presence. I think talking to him last year, I think from a production standpoint for him, one of the issues he had was the time he missed coming off the surgery and training camp, and I one thing for him was the technical side of things, just working on his moves,

his counters. He just know if his timing was what it normally is, and it took him a few weeks to get going on it. I know he faces double teams and the guy's efforts down after down is so good that I think his production you really have to watch the tape back to see what he does beyond just what the sacks are. But to your point, yes, he's a vocal guy, but needs to be. But another guy that they need to get back for two reasons

on the field off the field is Tyrone Cross. That is that is a guy that that DeMarcus has leaned on for years and he can be so valuable to them in terms of giving them reps at a couple of different spots, but also bringing along those younger guys. Like you said, he did it again, Robin again. Uh, you know, like you said, it's it's true. I mean that that was a big void left in as far as the leadership on the defensive line, and I think to take Lawrence again, to your point, Rob has had

to fill those shoes. But guys, don't fool yourself. I mean, most offensive coordinators have to identify where Tank Lawrence is because he is a game plan wrecker. If you look at last season, you know teams were not just leaving him by himself on an island. They were shipping him, double teaming him. And they're gonna have to do the same thing this year. But the difference is is that you have a guy in Done Terry Poe that is also going to have to be double teamed as well.

And so if you relegate or just say hey, I'm just gonna have my center be on Done Terry Poe by myself, it's gonna be a long NiFe for whoever that person is, because Done Terry Poe is a big human person. He's big and so person you have to double you have to double team him. But that also leads me to Gerald McCoy. Gerald McCoy once upon a time was a bad man in this league and people said they put some respect on his name when they

talk about Gerald McCoy. And now, I mean, and like most things that happened with you know, contracts guys, he ended up leaving Tampa because of his contract and went to play in Carolina. And if you look at that tape from last year and Carolina, I mean that team was getting their doors blown off, but still Gerald McCoy was one of the guys that was still giving it,

giving it to that team, whistle to whistle. And so for him, I know that, yeah, he's a serviceable guy at this point, but he comes in with a chip on his shoulder and he's gonna have plenty of opportunity to show everyone what he has left in the tank because he's gonna have a one on one matchup and he's gonna have to beat it. Y'all killed it, man, I mean, d d Law is gonna do what d Law does, you know? And now he just has he has a partner with him, right. Obviously, we want Crawford

to come back. We want him to come back healthy and ready to roll, take care of business as that vet as that voice on that defensive line. But you just got all the Smith back. You just got Smith back off his suspension, and this dude paired up with is going to be a serious problem, you guys. I mean, I don't know how much people out there, Cowboys Nation, y'all need to recognize that this d line is about

to be what I like to call McNasty. Okay, y'all, y'all need to recognize this is about to be serious, because I as heck, just a point to just attest it to. You got two dogs in the middle. You cannot isole these guys in the middle. You have to you have one of those guys gonna have one on one one of them, right, So you pick your poison, McCoy or Poe. Either way, it's gonna be an ill all right, And then you got you have opportunity to put those other dogs to go eat on the outside.

I am really looking forward to seeing these guys get after the ball and quarterback. I think they're gonna have a heck, of a time, and I really, honestly, whole truly believed that they're gonna have a two line rotation and keep these guys fresh. Well, this is over nasty, nasty. I love that I see, but I want to kind of look from a maybe a skeptical perspective here. I want to throw a wrench into things, because on paper

looks great. You've got these these big names. Gerald McCoy, like heckmone was saying earlier, Hey, he's a he's a name that people recognize. He was a household name early in his career. He's still on the backside of his career. The same thing for Don try Poe. You can maybe even say the same thing for Tyrone Crawford at the same point. So all of these names are great, But is this defensive line certainly better than it was last year?

Because I just want to hear what you think, because yes, you've added those guys, but you also lost Robert Quinn, who's a double double sack guy or a double digit sack guy. You have Malee Collins that's now gone and up to Las Vegas almost said Oakland there, but Las Vegas. So why is this defensive so much about it, man, stop it. Tell me why, Isaiah, tell me why? On a d line, man, we're talking about all pro goons.

When you turn to film on and you got dude sitting in the film room, you circle those two dogs in the middle, and then you circle them guys on the outside of said these guys are going to eat. Who are you going to stop? If you want to If you want to try to run the ball, good luck. Try to move all that man in the middle right. If you want to try to pass the ball, them dudes are gonna put their ears back and they're coming.

And matter of fact, and guess what, even if you want to try to play it safe, you still got three dogs sitting right behind those guys and leave vander ash and Smith. So listen, this front seven is sick. I can't wait you talk. I know you're talking about the last year's guys. Respect to them. Thank you guys. We doing what you do. But this we have we have Hey just like just like Beyonce said, let me upgrade you. That's what just happened, and that's what weak

and that's exactly what we got. Isais we got, we got upgraded. But Kyle, let me tell you this man in twenty twenty. Man, nobody likes the devil's advocate. All Right, that's okay, somebody's got to play that role. I got to ask the questions, and that's trying to be wrong. I love it, uh, you know, and I think that you have to look at what we have behind the Neville Gallimore is going to be a killer. I just believe that he is going to be a spark club

for this defensive line. And the fact that coach Thom Seweler has talked heavily and interviews about having guys in rotation and so look last year's team, last year's defensive line, and we talked about this a little bit last week. It's these guys were a lot smaller than the guys that you had, and so they had their skill set was one of having to be quick, get out the way, and get up the field. These guys present a different challenge because look, man, when you have a guy like

done Terry Pole, that's again getting that double team. It's really hard for the guard to release off on those linebackers. And if you reach, we teach right and so decisively. That's the thing that I believe that's gonna be That's the upgrade, right, that's the upgrade and the defense because you have guys that are gonna be there and they're

gonna be solid in the middle of our defense. And it just it just the backdoor, which you just said, Hey, I want everybody out there in Cowboys they to imagine I don't want you guys to imagine that you guys are a starting center for whatever team. I don't care. Let's call it the Giants. Right, you're a starting center. You gotta all pro dudes sitting in the a gap by the name of McCoy right, sitting right there, even if he's head up on you on your guard, he's

right there, right next to you. And then you have this dude named Po who just happens to be maybe three hundred and forty pounds. Okay, no, he's not only is he in the gap, but he has angled his helmet lined up directly at your shoulder, right, so as soon as you snap the ball, as soon as he sees that ball move, he is putting both hands on one of your shoulders. That he's going one direction. That proposes a problem, and that it was you guys. You

can look forward to see him, Isaiah, I do. I'll put I was going to just go back real quickly off of what Isaiah said, But you said all pro, Gerald McCoy, you think he's going to be an All Pro this year? You're saying in twenty thirteen he was an All Pro because I mean, I don't know if he's going to be an All Pro as a Dallas Cowboy,

he's on the back end of his career. I think he's an upgrade based off of what they've had in the past, just based off of the size, the speedy of the athleticism, which is still better than I think maybe an Anton Woods or Amothly Collins. I think he's an upgrade. I think he is. I just don't think he's gonna be an All Pro. I don't know if we can tap him as a twenty twenty All Pro. Twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, he was a household name. I

just don't have sense the case. So in so in the locker room, let me go ahead and give you guys a little a look behind the veil. Okay, in the locker room, what's your All Pro? You're All Pro? That's your naw, yeah, you're you're you're title you got. It's all your resume, and there is no question about it. I don't care if you're All Pro your first year and you're in year twenty, you still all Pro. All right.

So to answer your question in terms of him being able to make it this year, I honestly see this Cowboys defense having five to six All Pro players on his defense this year. Yeah. Wow, ye what I said. That's right. I'm gonna write that down really quickly. Tell

you put it on there, Put it on there. I think we have a real opportunity with this group that they put together, with this defensive coordinator that they have, these guys are gonna be in position to make a lot of plays that they wouldn't have been in before. That's that's the key right there that I think you

just nailed. Because the scheme has to ye set the players up, and that's why they made a change because I think I think with the last regime a lot of it was this is what we do, and we're not gonna do a lot of pre snap disguising and we're just gonna try to beat you at the snap after snap, and I think, yeah, I think they're gonna try to scheme things up a little bit more. But Kyle, I'll play Devil's advocate with you a little bit. I know, I like this, Heck, I like it. First of all.

I'll say they are I think they are upgraded in the middle of the defensive line. I do think if you don't, but I did. I did get curious and I went back and I was trying to figure out why Carolina with Don, Terry Coo and Gerald McCoy were twenty ninth against the run last year. I mean that that. You know, you just look at the stats and you're like, Wow, what what happened there? Happen? And I'll tell you what, man,

it was. It was a lot like it's like, it was a lot like what happened with the Cowboys last year. You had guys kind of playing out of position at times, not technical sound, trying to make tackles, and there they were a gap control defense that didn't always fill the gaps properly. I don't know if you can put that all on Don, Terry Poe and Gerald McCoy, but they were part of a defense that didn't have success last year.

And I think, you know, they lost some guys. They shifted some guys around Kuan Short wasn't there, so I know that's a double's advocate type of thinking. Is well, what happened to that group last year? I don't think you could put it all on them, but man, they do need those two guys to be rock solid against the run, because I said it last week. When this defense does not stop the run, they have problems. They have big problems that kind of leaks out to the

rest of the group. And I'm glad that earlier in this segment, Heckma brought up the Bill Gallimore because I think on the back end of Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe, you've got a young gun that could end up being an All pro as Dallas cowboy, because he is going to be may be a surprise. He was a value pick in the third round. Whenever he fell to you at eighty two, that was when you were high fiving those around you because you knew he was going to have a star on the side of his helmet and

hackmaner you brought him up. But what kind of role does he have to play? And while we're talking about rookies on the defensive line, you've got a couple at the end spots too, Bradley and I who was a draft pick, and also he got Ladarius Hamilton and the James Madison Rondelle Carter who also was an undrafted free agent. You've got a heavy room of rookies on that defensive line. Absolutely,

I believe that. The first question about Naval Gallimore, I think this kid can come in and play freely because he has so much of a presence in the league, and so I think that it's important for him to get into that rotation. But there's a name that we keep forgetting to mention, and that's Tristan Hill. It's a guy in this second year that also will benefit by having these guys in front of him and teaching him

the ropes, and not that they didn't last year. I just feel as though it's gonna be he's gonna have a better room. But also, again the right end, we put a lot of that concentration on what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? Guys, guy, the guy that may start at your right end position may not even be on your roster right now, so that that that may be another thing for you to have to,

you know, putting your pipe and smoke and understand that. Look, there are a lot of changes yet to still be made, but I believe Nevill Gallimore Hill and also Antoine Hoods will may play a large role in your defensive line rotation. But also a name that we have to remember as far as the right edge, and that's a no. The rookie he's gonna make he is going to be thrust into this defense and put in a position to excel. Also, I think that he has a special skill set and

he's a hunter. If you go back, you understand that this kid is all about, you know, aggression and coming after the quarterback. I look for this Cowboys defense to have a lot of fire and also be able to have that rotation where there's not a falloff when they bring in that second that second group. Yeah, when you're when you're a young player and you got some you have some vets in front of you that are that are you know, highly touted guys. Your job is to

simply come in and bring energy. That's that's your draw your roles to come in not mess anything up. First of all, come in be we're supposed to be. Do what you're supposed to do, and do it at one hundred miles per hour. Right and give me, give me one or two plays and get out of there, right and let me come in right and learn the tempo of the game, learn the pace of the game. Watch right,

watch those reps. You know what I'm saying. When you have opportunity to rotate and you're playing against you're playing against the starting five old line there. They don't they don't sub out, right, So you're playing against the best that every team has. When you come in right, you might be the second best of what you're on your team, but you're playing against the best that the other opposing

team has. So it's very important for those guys just learn what they're learning, what they're supposed to do, come out and just give it a because literally, that's all the expectation is of you. Just don't mess up and give me all the energy you have. I thought, heck, you've brought up a good point about Antoine Woods. You know, it's a guy that's dealt with a lot of injuries off and on the last couple of years of maybe playing fewer snaps will allow him to be fresher and

more productive. But I agree with what you guys are saying, and you know, I'm excited to see the Canadian bulldozer man Neville Gallimore. I think that guy, he's for his size, that is an athletic up the field from the middle of the line. I mean, I think that's that's actually a guy they was in consideration at fifty eight, so to get him at eighty two, they are really happy about that. And they also think he might be there's room to grow coming from Canada not playing at a

high level of football early in his career. They think he's got, you know, some more upside to go. He's definitely got some upside. And it's kind of tough talking about a rookie class, like we have been talking about Ceedee Lamb, Treyvon Diggs, Neville Gallimore all making an impact as a rookie. It's it's more likely that not all three of those guys have a phenomenal rookie season. If they do, then all of a sudden, you're having an

incredible year as an organization. It's a little bit too early to tap the brakes, but I think at the same time, you got to keep that in the back of your head. They are rookies. Hopefully they do make the impact that we expect, but it's still tough to kind of tab that pressure on them immediately. Now, the Cowboys have officially moved on from Jason Witton earlier this offseason. They did so by turning the page with a four year,

twenty two million dollars deal to Blake Jarwin. When we come back here I'm Talking Cowboys, We're going to tell you how Blake Jarwin can be one of the best pieces of this twenty twenty offense despite all the storylines being abound around those wide receivers. Will be back in a moment here on Talking Cowboys. I'm Jay Novachek, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys. Back in the day, I was the guy who always got the tough yards

and that's why I run with John Dear today. In fact, I have a job three zero twenty five E tractor that can handle any yard work I need to do, even the tough yards way out back. So if you have one acre or a thousand, John Deer has the equipment that's just right for you. Visit a John Deer Dealer today and run with us. We are the official tractor provider of your Dallas Cowboys. Slura is a proud sponsor of the Dallas Cowboys, helping fans see more and

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AT and T Stadium. Single game to are on sale now. Get your tickets today at Dallas Cowboys dot com. You can go online and get all your tickets for what is a jam packed schedule at AT and T Stadium this upcoming season. Back here for segment number two on Talking Cowboys. Rob Phillips, Isaiah Standback, the Great, heck My Harrison,

I'm Kyle Yeoman's and guys. This past segment, we talked about one of the trouble spots for the Dallas Cowboys, at least going into the offseason, which was the defensive line. Seemingly they made an improvement there. Now we take a look at the tight end spot, and last season was the return of Jason Witton after a one year hiatus in the Monday Night Football booth. He makes his way back, catches a touchdown pass in each of the first two games, and then from there it kind of just kind of

pittered pattern throughout the rest of the season. He has now moved on. He has gone to Las Vegas to be a part of the John Gruden's Raiders. Now it's Blake Jarwin's turn to be tight end number one, four years, twenty two million dollar deal, and guys, my question is what kind of jump can we expect from Blake Jarwin rob because last year he kind of was back into that tight end too slot. Now he's got a chance

to really improve and really take off. Well. I would hope, I would think they would hope he could, you know, maybe double his production or a guy that's played, you know, maybe thirty percent of the snaps. I think he might have been under that a little bit last year to being the guy as you said, And there's parts of his game that he needs to work on, or you know,

the blocking part of it. He's not necessarily known for as much that something Witten was good even late in his career as a blocker, but I think we know what he's good at. What he's really good at is stretching the field, being a down the field vertical threat from the tight end spot. And I kind of like in this a little bit too. And I'm not comparing the two players, but I kind of like in it too.

When Miles Austin took over as the starting wide receiver here after you know, a couple of years of being a deserve and there's a difference between playing a few snaps a game and having a few targets a game to being the guy that everybody's game planning for. And to me, that's what I'm looking for the most is how he handles defense is gunning for him this year because he's been kind of a spot player and now

he's going to be the featured guy. And Miles was able to make that transition because he played behind guys like t O and Roy Williams that taught him how to prepare and I think he learned that from Jason Witten. I think he's gonna be fine, but but it is going to be an adjustment for him. Heck, okay, you know, look, I feel like this when it comes down to Blake Jarwin. It's it's the gift and the curse of curse of

having Jason Witten playing behind Jason Witten. And the gift is is that you get the compliment pros showed you how to prepare, like Rob just alluded to. But at the same time, you know, what is the mind state of Blake Jarwin. I mean last year, well two years ago, uh, Witton retired and he was basically given the keys to

the tight end room. And then okay, Jason's back, right, and so now now you're playing the role of number two behind look all pro one of the better receivers to ever play the game, one of the better tight ends to ever played the game of football. And so checking the mind state also of Blake jarwinns important. I think that he's had an ample opportunity, uh to be

the guy at tight end. But also with Blake Bell, I think, and I've said this before, I think it's the combination of them both together that's gonna be that one tight end. And also guys then the undrafted free agent we got from Michigan McKinnon, the guy that you know from Michigan who played in Jim Harball and Harball's offense. I like this kid. I think he's a you know, pretty sturdy blocker but also a great receiver. So look, we had as far as Blake Jarwin, I know the

question was about him. I think obviously that he's gonna make that jump, but there are just some things. If I'll playing the Devil's advocate, guys, I think that he has some things in this game as far as blocking is concerned that makes you worried. Well, last year he was sixty fifth of sixty nine tight ends on Pro Football Focus in his run blocking grade sixty fifth of sixty nine. Isaiah, that's not necessarily the rating you would want.

It's not the rating you want. But like you guys attested to, you know, he had that dude in front of him named Jason Witten, and he didn't have them to be the great blocker, right, So he played his position last year. This year he got cashed out all right, So he is going to be expected. There's a level of excellence is now comes with his name. So he's gonna have to figure that out. And yes, run blocking will be a part of it because they can't just sub Blake in every time they want to block. No,

that's going to Sona. He's gonna learn. He's got to learn how to be that guy that can move the dog and move some men off the ball. And it might be rough for him, especially not having OTAs that sucks, right, So he's gonna have to figure that out. He's had to figure it out quick because they are going to

come out with him in the game. They're gonna have a dude by the name Ezekiel Elliott behind him and freaky Zeki is going to expect that dude to move some men off the ball because they just paid him a lot of money. So he's got he'll he'll figure that out. In terms of expectation in the passing game, I think he has to improve upon his route running. You know, we know that he has the juice and he can get down field. But listen, we got three dudes on the out there a receiver now that have juice.

So do we really need somebody that can stretch the field from the inside position. No, we really need somebody who can get open underneath. So he's gonna have to work on that aspect of his game because I think that his role and what he's what he considers you know himself confident in and in an area that he excels in, He's gonna have to then timple that down and focus his attention on being a typical tight end

and works in anywhere from five to twelve yards. And that's one thing that Jason Witton always provided Dak Prescott, but even up to at the end of his career, was a reliable target underneath that. F Dak Prescott got in trouble and he had to get flushed out of the pocket or he was under pressure, he could dump it off and he knew that eighty two was within reach. That's something that maybe doesn't fit necessarily into the bread basket of what Blake Jarwin brings to the table as

a tight end. But Isaiah, you made a point a little bit ago of him being behind Jason Witton not having to be that run blocker, even though his braid was very low. It was interesting the disbursement of snaps that Blake Jarwin had last year. I went back and

looked at it. Right at the beginning of a year, they were pretty even between pass blocking snaps and run blocking, But as you went along and the season continued, his run blocking snaps started to shrink considerably to the point where he still had more run blocking snaps by the end of the season, just not as much as he did really at the beginning of the year. Whenever they

were pretty much even all the way throughout. Now, Rob whenever it comes to this contract that Blake Jarwin ended up getting from the Dallas Cowboys and a little bit of a statement made to Jason Witton about Hey, we're gonna move on from you. We're gonna make Blake Jarwin are tight end number one. This is money that's not necessarily big time gar and team money. However, it is something that just still puts that statement out there saying, hey,

we're making you the top guy here. Yeah, I think so, And like heck, I'm alluded to it. I think he might have been in position to be the number one guy a year ago. And when Witten came back, the way the Fun office kind of looked at it was well, we can just kind of kick the can down the road a little bit and I evaluate him for another year and see how he does, and then if we need to go look for a tight end of the draft. If Witten moves on the next year, then we can

do that, and obviously they liked what they saw. Isaiah made a good point, you know, I think the reliability part. We know what he can do after the catch. I mean, the guy's average almost twelve yards a catch for his career, and he can stretch a field and he's a good run after catch guy. But that reliability aspect is so key from the tight end position. And I go back,

I just go back to it. The sample size. He's been in a certain role, you know, the first couple of years, and there's a big difference when you were asking to take on another role and be more involved. I don't think he's had more than fIF I don't think he's had fid he targets in a season for his career. So now there's more ask of him, and Dak Prescott needs kind of that safety valve and can he be that guy that's going to be the question. Yeah,

that's a that's a great point. Also, h Rob, that safety net for Dak Prescott is very important and the load that you're putting on him. Look, here's the other part about it is this, and I think Isaiah, you were you're you're kind of alluding to this also, and also Uh, Kyle that look, you you have certain schemes and if you're tempting your hand to say that you know Jarwin can't block and he's only in on pass plays, then man defense is just gonna pin their ears back

every time they see him come into the game. And so he has to be able to correct that. And this COVID nineteen world that we're in man where people are where these guys are not able to get those reps and get that experience right now leading into a very important season or jarwinum. But also I think that it's you're gonna the explosion in the tight at the

tight end position. It's going to be oh to the receiving corps that we have, because man, these guys are gonna be able to find those little soft spots in the defense. He and just camp out and if Dak needs to the play breaks down, Jawin or Bail will be available. Well. Travis Kelsey proved last season that you can be a tight end in a high powered offense.

Maybe you're not the featured piece of that offense every single game, because from time to time it was Patrick Mahomes, Dirie Hill, it was guys other than Travis Kelsey that led that Chief's team to a Super Bowl win. Now, I'm not comparing Blake jin let's comp the brakes there. But I do want to ask Isaiah, what is the what is the ceiling for Blake Jarwin? What kind of ceiling does this guy have? Because he was undrafted, He's still got the frame, he's got the hands, he's got

the vertical vertical threat ability. I want to know what a ceiling is. I mean, I think you just alluded to it, right, I mean, he has all the intangibles that you want. Um. I think what everybody's waiting to see is if he has that that tenacious attitude, that that that that get that dog in him that just

wants to bury somebody in the in the ground. Because he's gonna have to find that as we just talked about, right, I mean, you know he went from coming in and relieving with too now he's working with the offensive alignment like that's what you do, right, So when those guys make an adjustment on the line because of a certain front of the defense presents, he needs to know everything

that they need to know. He needs to be able to block the same people that they have to block right, and then oh, by the way, next play, I need you to run down the field, you know, twelve yards and find and find a hole so that you can get you know, that can get you the ball. So I think the ceiling, you know, the ceilings whatever whatever he wants it to be, because I mean, because he

has all the intangibles. I think most of the time, you know, somebody doesn't have the physical aspect of something and you're like, you know, maybe they can develop that, right. I think for this it's a skill set in terms of he needs remps, right, he needs run blocking raps in these pass blocking reps because he is going to be pass blocking as well. But when you're paying somebody, you know, five to six million year, they gonna have to figure it out. Yeah. No, I mean that's that's

absolutely correct thing. And I believe that that Jarwin has that he has the ability, or else the Cowboys wouldn't have have paid him. But at the same time, I just feel as though, look as far as schemes defenses that's coming against this offense, he's gonna have to have all of those, uh intangibles. But I think we're putting a lot more on Jarwin than we need to because they signed Blake Bell as well, and so I just I just feel like it's not just gonna be the

Jarwin show. I think that Blake Bell gives that the Cowboys offense that comfort zone with the big body guy that's also just as capable as Jarwin if he doesn't feel that role in run blocking. You said, right, isaih with with with Ezekiel Elio? Now, but say freak Ezekiel with Ezekiel Elliott. You know what the Cowboys want to do. They want to run the ball and they want to be dominating uh at running the ball, and that has

a lot to do with the tight end. So Jowin is going to have a big responsibility to get that done. But if he can't, guys, Blake Bell, that's what he does. He's all about that. And so look, it's all about how you disguise it. It's all about the way that you roll it out so that the defense doesn't you know, you don't tip your hand on what you're doing. But I think the Cowboys have the guys in that tight end room that can get it done. But but heck, just following up on that and Rob, you might have

a pin on this too? How much two tight ends? How mean too tight end sets? You guys really expect to see because you're not You're not gonna just totally remove you know, if you want to go, I want to go eleven Versonnel as much as I absolutely yeah with number eight, number eighty eight, the new eighty eight. You know that's a good point yep. So I mean he's gonna say no regardless of the skill set of Blake, you know, I mean he's ye, that's what he does.

He blocks, But like when he comes in, he's coming in and a two tight end set. You're not taking your newly two or twenty plus million dollars man off the field, right and putting in a guy that you just signed to be the blocker. So when he comes in, it's gonna be it's gonna be a two tight end set. It's gonna be two receivers. So to your point, route, that's why I want to get your apinky. I know, I know you want to see eighty eight out there.

How how often you think that's really gonna happen? Right? I mean, yeah, it's gonna happen probably five to six times a game. Offenses are probably averaging about forty snaps a game. Yeah, I mean, you're probably right. There probably will be less twelve personnel than we've seen from in the past, and it probably will come down to him being more just a well rounded player, right. Heck makes a good point. I mean, Blake Bell was signed to be more of that probably Witten role, more of that

utility guy in the line of scrimmage. But it's gonna be interesting to see how they use both guys. I still think you've got to use Blake Jarwin's strengths at the end of the day, find a way to get him in mismatch situations on a line backer things of that nature, where he can make plays where you down the field, because I think I think he can still do that. But to Isaiah's point, he's still got to be able to do some of the underneath stuffy work and some of the dirty work, because that's a lot.

That's a lot of what the Titan has to do because you have, especially when you have so many other weapons outside that you can go to. You've got plenty more weapons than you have had in the past, and it's because of all of the improvements that you've ended up having this offseason on that offensive side of the ball. There's been that same kind of improvement on the defensive side.

And we'll go back to the defense here in this final segment, and we're talking specifically about the cornerback position. We're gonna rank each of the eleven Dallas Cowboys corners. We're gonna tell you why the name at the top of the list might not be the one that you expect when we come back here on talking Cowboys. Saint eighteen sixty five. Stetson hats are American maid with pride right here in Texas, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Want to show your

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as far as the eye can see. The phrase two going to be true comes to mind. Get there. It is a rich, delicious doctor Pepper paradise. Wait did did that can of doctor Pepper just open itself for you? They all are as if to say, so nice to treat you, and even though it feels weird to talk to we, can you pick one up and say, it's so nice to be treated Doctor Pepper, so nice to

treat you. To talk in Cowboys, get the ultimate fan experience from the Ultimate cow for the Ultimate cow Boy Fan joined Dallas Cowboys United and get an exclusive DCU fan pack and member of benefits. Membership started only twenty dollars. Visit Dallas Cowboys dot com slash unite it to join today. So first ever read for heck Ma Harrison on Talking Dallas. How about that knocking it out of the park. And we've always had a fun analyst read going into the

third segment of this show. It's kind of a tradition on talking Cowboys, so we're glad to bring that back. Final segment through here on this Tuesday morning, heck Ma Harrison, Isaiah stand back, our resident super Bowl Champion and the great Rob Phillips. Hey, guys, how about a little bit of breaking news for you? How's that sound? Just a

little bit of talking cowboys breaking news? According to sources, and this is from Charles Robinson from Yahoo's Sports says, NFL head coaches may return to facilities next week, with

many camps to potentially follow in June. And if you go further down into that article that is on Yahoo dot com, says scheduled as early as June fifteenth or as late as June twenty seventh mini camps depending on COVID nineteen data whether the handful of franchises get a quote unquote go ahead signal from state governments to resume full operations. So another hurdle, another big time step moving forward toward the twenty twenty season, and something that is

encouraging to potentially having football back, which is huge. Now this is from Yahoo Sports. Sources say it's all just a report. We have heard nothing from the Dallas Cowboys on our end of things in terms of when those dates would be or what that looks like for what's going on at the Star in Frisco. But just wanted to give you guys a little bit of encouraging news heading in I love that man. That is good as long as your source wasn't Chris Simms were good man,

of course. Chris Simms this past week thrown out of some numbers about Prescott contract negotiation, and numbers that weren't necessarily what we thought were true, so they ended up not naing true, but still interesting when it comes to that contract negotiation as well. But luckily this was not from Chris Simms. It was from Yahoo's Sports. Now, going into this final segment, I want to pull our attention to another website. Last segment, we talked about Blake Jarwin.

There's a full interview up on Dallas Cowboys dot com. Nick Eatman sat down with Blake jar When he can go check that out in its entirety. He talks about Jason Witten, his new role, He talks about all things Dallas Cowboys with Nick Eatman, and that's a great interview. I highly encouraging also on Dallas Cowboys dot com because we're just cranking out all sorts of content over the offseason.

A rank them an early ranking of the Cowboys eleven corners, and that's where we're going to go into right now, the eleven corners for the Dallas Cowboys. I'm not gonna go through all eleven. We're gonna start at number eight and we're gonna work our way through and we're gonna agree or disagree. Now, rob out of the four of us was the only one that actually contributed to this article. So we're gonna really get after Rob if we disagree at the point, Okay, head man Isaiah, we're going to

agree to disagree with Rob Phillips. Now, starting at number eight, C J. Goodwin is number eight, number seven, Maurice Kennedy, number six, the newly drafted Reggie Robinson, the second fourth round pick out of Tulsa, number five, Darryl Worley, an acquired free agent, and then at number four, Treyvon Diggs, the second round draft pick out of Alabama, number three,

Anthony Brown, number two, Cheeto Ewoosier, and number one. This one surprised me, Rob, And I'm about to give you a chance to give you some give you some of this positivity around this number one pick. But Jordan Lewis, it's a little bit unusual. But Jordan Lewis is the number one selection. And this is by the Cowboys staff. So the guys who have been around and know the team the most. Rob, tell me why Jordan Lewis was number one. Wait, you didn't like it? Why because he's

not six five? Right? Done have super long arms and all that. It might be something Full disclosure on this list. Okay, this is all subject to change. We have no idea how this thing is gonna shake out. Hopefully gets started

in the season. This is as wide open a position I can remember, and we actually got the idea for doing this because I was talking to Nick about we had a debate on this show a couple of weeks ago about trying to figure out who's starting at corner, and I mean, you could go a bunch of different directions, because they've got a nice mix of young guys and

established veterans. And that's that's why we went Kyle with Jordan Lewis at number one, just because of the fact that despite his size and I know this is kind of the same trend as under the Christopher Shark regime. He's not six feet tall, he's not a long rangy corner. But in terms of guys that have been around and have been productive, he took advantage of his opportunities last year, and I think his experience at least at this point point with no in person workouts and everything, puts him

in the top spot. But there's opportunity for other guys clearly to step up. They drafted two corners, so guys are gonna have opportunity to win jobs. But we just felt like Lewis what he did last year and being familiar with with this this franchise and being productive here I think carried the day. Rob Let me ask you this man, Why didn't Jordan Lewis get the opportunity as

many opportunities last season? I mean, everybody always speaks so highly about him and what he does, And I mean, is it just that he's an All Valley ranch guy, well Frisco guy, that he's practice as well, he's always aggressive and match us. What is it about Jordan Lewis where everyone has such a great opinion about him, but it doesn't correlate to on field performance. I mean, I think it was the size thing really with christ Rah Shard. Honestly, I think, um, you know he didn't fit that that

that moldy um. But I do you think he earned Chris Richard's respect as the year went on, especially last year when Anthony Brown got hurt, and he just kept making place to the point where they just decided, we can't keep this guy off the field now. Yeah, And and you know, for the most part, he really did capitalize. He always just kind of seems to be around the football.

So what It'll be interesting though, because Isaiah, I know you've been talking about the coaching staff and what they can bring, and Al Harris seems to like those taller corners. So from a prototype, you know, I don't know if he fits ideally what they want to do. Nope, I agree, And I don't want to jump the gun here because I have my list in terms of who I think

is the top top dog or the top five. Well, dag nap and let's go all right, So I'm gonna should was tarrying for a bottom up for sure, was stry for the top down, top down? Why not? Okay, let's go top down. So I'm gonna go ahead and tell you guys my number one, and I'm going with Daryl Worthy. Why that's right? Yeah, the new guy. And the reason being is because number one coming into this defense, they are surrounding this defense with veterans. Right this this

defense is made up of vets. They brought in two vets on the interior. They're gonna have two vents on it on the outside. At end, you have three vets. At linebacker, you're gonna what's your name, Cheeta I'm gonna go ahead and take y'all. I don't know y'all talk about cho Cheeto is going to safety, all right, They're gonna pay take Cheeto and Haha, put those guys at safety. Those guys gonna be roaming free like crazy, all right.

And they're gonna start off with two dogs at quarterbacks, so one is gonna be dirt worthy, the other one is gonna be digs. Okay. They want those long guys that are gonna put hands on people and not allow them to get a release and let the front seven do what they do. And if they do happen to get past those two dogs at corner, they will have to deal with haha and freaking Cheeto by the girl out here to take hands off, okay. And then in terms of the slot guy I like, I like Jordan

Lewis or Brown. I'm not sure which one might might might jump to the inside, but I think those guys will be the first, the first nickelback inserted into the game. Well, that was a little bit of a curveball. That's why that's why this is great, man, because you literally go in like ten different directions with this thing. I love it. I love it. Yeah. I've always and me and Robert had spirited debates about rookies and their impact on defenses. You know, I just feel as though, as far as

you know Diggs is concerned, he's your top guy. And the reason I say that is he has the skill set immediately to come in and make an impact. If you look at the season and who the Dallas Cowboys dvs are gonna go against, my god, do they have their work cut out for him? I mean from Julio Jones, the Odell Beckham, I mean, guys, the list just goes on and on. So they're going to see some top rated guys. Wory I'm very impressed with as well. But again, I just take Diggs, put him up on the pedalstool

and make the list for everybody else. Uh. Jordan Lewis is my is my other guy. I love Jordan Lewis. I've all has had a great opinion about him coming out of Michigan. She's a very aggressive guy, and I think he's a guy that Al Harris loves as well, just because if you turn on the table you say that the eye and the sky don't lie. You see the effort there, and he is a guy that you know it's gonna give it one. I mean the size of the fighting, the dog and all those things that

people say. I just feel like Jordan Lewis is one tough customer, worldly three brown four Cheeto, and then the rest of the list that you have. All Right, hold on, Hey, I'm about to cut you off. Hey, hold on coming out telling me with the guys. You know, we tend to agree on a lot of things. Hey, but I'm about to discreet you on this one. Right here. You're telling me. You're telling me that you want to put the new Shoes digs on Odell Beckham, on Julio Jones.

You're gonna put him. That's how you're gonna introduce him to the end to the league's put Here's the thing. I'm not saying that he's Daryl Green, and I'm not saying that he's Dion Samming's right, But I will say this that that kid right now has been taken pro reps for a long time, with his brother being a rated receiver in the league. So I trust him and his mental right now to play in close proximity. Nobody plays man to man with Julio Jones. I dare you.

Nobody does, so he's gonna have help. I mean, let's just keep it all the way real. But Treyvon Diggs has the skill set right now. Now, I don't know much about I don't know Worly. I mean, I've done my homework on him, but as far as against the top rated guys, I can look at Diggs right now and say, I know you're ready, you can give me what I need. And also with Jordan Lewis on the other side, and so yeah, let's get it on. Man.

There are no red shirt gears in this thing, right, so we just got to take the top off and see what we got. Now. I do want to ask really quickly, these this list that you've brought up with Daryl Worley and Trayvon Diggs up at the top, and you're you're saying, hey, these two were the top two guys. Have you talked to Al Harris? I know you guys are pretty close and you hash conversations with him about what he wants. Because I'm starting to think you know

something that we don't know. You know what. It's the power of the dress. You know what I'm saying right, It's the power power of the dress, Kyle, You know when you got the dress, there's this dog. It's like it's like it's like Avatar. You just connected, you know

what I mean? Uh no, no, man, I just mean you just think about when you're in a position to be when you're a quarterback coach, right, when you're a secondary coach, you're going most of the time you're gonna try to resemble what worked for you, especially when you happen to be playing, when you're now coaching for somebody

who would coached you. Right, So now you have you guys have an understanding of what worked for you in the past, back when you guys were winning, and now you're in a position to make decisions, you're gonna pick something that resembles most like what's what you did before. Right. It's just just like just like Richard, he didn't like he didn't like some of these guys, right because he wasn't a Sherman, he wasn't a browner, right, he wasn't those those type of bodies. So I see myself going

towards Hey, number one, what do we need? We need a veteran out there that's gonna be controlled, calm, not panic, right, and understand the game. And then a matter of fact, you know, then let's put our top dog that we invested in out there on the on the defensive side of the bar as far as corner. Let's put him out there so he can get his reps and we have some help behind him. Right, but let's put those two long arm jokers out there to put hands on

people and it everybody else can rotate through. And I think Robinson's gonna be rotating there as well. Right. I think he's our fourth, our fourth guy that's gonna come in by I mean, how often are you seeing four wives in his league? Except for probably Week one when we played against some dog on rams. Yeah, that's funny, mister Robinson. I talked to him, I talked to not to him. I talked to his position coach at Tulsa, Aaron Fletcher, and he talked about how much press covers

they played at Tulsa. They called a cat coverage and they said, he just really excelled at it. And that's a really underrated draft pick that might be able to do. And that's the thing with the list that we did. It was kind of based on now, but I think those guys have every opportunity to rise up as as it goes on. I did one question for Issaiah though, if you if you move Cheeto to corner, I mean the safe you Yeah, what do you do with Xavier Woods?

Is he just a rocational guy? Could he be a nickel guy for you like he was early in his career? What do you think like if they you know that scenario, what could they do? Now that's a great question. That's a great question. I think that you want to have as competitive as a nickel corner as possible. You want that position to be competitive. You know your outside guys

are gonna be competitive. You have to, especially in this league. Now, you need that third guy to be dang there that on that part of the field just as much as the outside corners are. So I think you throw him in a mix with with with Brown and them and let them fight it out. But I mean, I mean, this is a good problem to have. You have. You have probably three three guys that are a locked to be there, right, probably four guys that are allowed to

be there. Are you gonna are you gonna carry five? Six? How many guys you gonna carry? Right? And you gotta figure out, Hey, let him go out there and compete. So this this is an awesome problem that the Cowboys have. This They haven't had this problem in a while. So I'm looking forward to seeing to see in this battle once camp starts. The guys at the bottom, Goodwin and Maurice Kennedy there there. But but yeah, I think heck, they're probably going to be valued for John Fossil and

helping in the in the coverage game too. Yeah. Absolutely, and you see that and the depth that we had we have Isaiah Again, that's a good problem to have, but also we have to keep it real when it comes down to you know, our DVS linebackers. These are guys that typically put on another hat and play special

teams for you as well. So that's going to be a lot of the deciding factor as far as you rank these guys in and again with the depths, that depth, depth that we have and guys that may potentially be moving too safety, there are a lot of guys that's going to be on the bubble and so even these guys that you're ranking, they may not even make the team. Very true, Very true. It's a big, big question mark

moving into the season. Now, I kind of want to tie together a couple points, one that Hecla made earlier in the segment, one that Isaiah made as well. When you're talking about the nickel that corner or really slot corner that needs to be an impact player pretty quickly on that defense, and I think Jordan Lewis is right up there. I think Cheeto's in that conversation. I would put cheeto up at the top of the list, but I think Jordan Lewis is probably better covering in the slot.

And you look at even some of the added talent in the NFC East over this offseason. Jalen Reagor for the Philadelphia Eagles, that's gonna be a tough cover from anybody. The TCU wide receiver that was drafted by Philadelphia. You've got Golden Tate now in New York. You've got Terry

McLaurin and what he did last year in Washington. There's plenty of those slot receivers that are gonna put a big time question mark on who is covering those guys throughout the course of divisional play in the NFC East. I think Jordan Lewis, Cheeto Lusier could both fill that role. And that's kind of it at least puts a thumbs up for the list that was given by Rob Phillips in the Cowboys overall, but I still think it's something that you have to look at whenever you move forward

with this defense. Rob, Yeah, I agree, And I think when it comes to the slot position, I would if they moved Cheeto to safety. As Isaiah said that, that's interesting because if then who's who's starting opposite him, If it's Xavier Woods, it can do that. I mean, he's moved in and covered nickel on the nickel before um any anthy Brown has done it. I kind of like George Lewis in that role just because I like him being around the football. He finds a way to be

around the football. But the conclusion I just draw to this thing is if this thing is so wide, wide open, wide open, and you've got a lot of guys that can play a lot of different spots too, and that's exactly what they want. They wanted in front seven and they wanted in their secondary guys you can move around and play in different packages. Versatility is key. No, Rod, Yeah,

totally agreement. That's and that's the awesome part about having all these athletes, because I think, I know we're trying to say, Hey, this guy's gonna play in this position, this GY's gonna play this position. I think sometimes you're gonna have Cheeto playing in a slot. Sometimes you're gonna have Woods in the back, you know, back there at safety,

I think there's gonna be a revolving door. And you're navy, especially with our defensive coordinator, right, I mean, you don't know what the heck you're gonna get with him, So you know, I think this is, like I said, like we had attested to, this is a great problem to have, and it's always awesome when you can put guys wherever, right when you could just come out learn the entire defense, and your defensive coordinator is able to put you in

positions and situations that make you the most successful and overall make the whole team successful. And we'll see what they do with Cheeto. But but I remember when he was his first camp with the Cowboys. They hadn't playing everywhere, they didn't playing the nickel, they hadn't playing safety. That they just moved him around. Yeah, they end up playing

him a corner. But you can play pretty much anywhere you need him too, and you did that at Colorado too, And to tie a bow on this whole thing in terms of the corners and really our episode here of Talking Cowboys, I do want to make just notice that it's twenty twenty and we had an avatar reference from Isaiah. I'm waiting on it. I'm waiting on throws it back here. We had an avatar sayment. Apparently all Harris actually chopped off the dreads, so maybe the things kind of over.

Let you know that one, but that is that is going to do it here for Talking Cowboys. So glad you've been with us. Hope everybody had a safe and socially distant Memorial Day weekend. Hopefully the weather gets better if you're in the Dallas Fort Worth theory, because there's been nothing but rain here for the last couple of days. But that is gonna do it for Heck Harrison, for Rob Phillips, for the Super Bowl champion, Isaiah stand back. I'm Kyle Yeoman's saying so long until next week here

on Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.