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This is Talking Cowboys, springing live from the Dallas Cowboys World headquarters at.
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And now your hosts, Isaiah Standback, Patrick Wilker, Nick Harris, and Kyle Yeomans. It's another Talking Tuesday this offseason from the Star in Frisco and the SWBC Studios. Welcome in, everybody is We are back and ready to go. Time to talk some OTAs. We're also gonna take some calls. Eight eight eight eight five five two to nine seven. We want to talk to Cowboys Nation, Talking Cowboys presented.
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Back here with Isaiah Stanback, Nick Harris, Patrick No c Walker. I'm Kyle Yeoman's fresh off of two weeks vacate, I'm.
Energized, I'm ready to roll. Hailey Sutton face.
Haley Sutton popped in. She did a great job. She killed it as she always does. She could catch her on Girls Talk Boys Talking a ton of different programming on Dallas Cowboys dot Com and throughout and she continues to kill.
It as always, but I'm I'm glad to be back with you. Yeah, let's go snow.
Brought back a little bit of snow. Brought back some dubs for the Stars over the Kraken. But I couldn't carry that into Las Vegas. So yeah, that one, that one didn't work out. We're still gonna make you wear a Stars jersey. I hope you know you're not getting out of that. Yeah, the bit, we're gonna let it settle for like a week. We can put that on too if you want. But that's a separate that's a separate deal. The day, Yeah, that's another day. We'll give you a green one.
Give you a nice hat. We'll make it work. I'll take that. I'll take my medicine. Yeah right, we lost you guys won then and then lost them. Well you know, it happens. It does it all on our recliners. Yeah.
Now we're all watching the finals together and guess what, we're also watching ot as too as we are close. Now it's officially football season, right, I mean the Rangers are doing their thing. No, Rangers continue to kill.
It, but it's football. Come on now, like we're getting into one hundred days till football set to day yea until Thursday night to your points, shake it before you there you go.
That's awesome, he it is. It gets me like butterflies, Like it gets me ready. It gives me butterflies. It's the fact they're about to hit June. And you know, when there's June and then there's July, and then there's training camp.
Bump bump. We're gonna have plenty to talk about a training camp. You better believe it. It's gonna be great. Wait daily, Uh, it is a busy week at the Star. There's a lot going on.
I'm suited up today because I'm helping with a high school diversity coaching so I'm at They brought in a bunch of high school coaches, really really cool event that they're going on upstairs.
We've got the Rookie Premiere later in the week. You and I'll be a part of that.
Uh.
And then OTAs m H going into mini camp next week and we're really getting the first real look at this Cowboys team. And we got a chance to look at practice last week as well. But let's start with some news and notes because it is a busy week ahead. There's a lot going on media days this week too. I forgot about that even today and tomorrow, oh man. And then more lock and room access on Thursday. OTA Part two practice. Yeah, another practice.
Busy weekend, A busy week, I should say, going into the this week for the Cowboys. So first and foremost news and notes, let's talk about some injury rehabilitation. Tony Pollard and Terrence Steele. As Mike McCarthy said last week, there are both tracking well as far as no setbacks. What does that mean as far as training camp start a training camp in July? Will either of them start on the PUP list, the physically unable to perform list? That is to be determined. Same thing for Jordan Lewis.
Jordan Lewis did not participate in OTA one last week, which was not unexpected. He is still tracking well, but there being extra cautious with him. He's still doing his his rehab work with Britt Brown and the training staff. Terrence Steele, he was off to the side before departing later in OTA's last week to meet with the training staff get his rehab in. Tony Pollard was actually taking some reps with the first team, and I can't you talk about butterflies.
Oh?
Yes, he was moving.
Quite well, quite well.
That juice.
Yeah, there was a whole whole box of Caprice Son in that leg, A lot of juice, A lot of juice.
Do we have a juice sponsor? I don't know. I didn't have.
Caprice Son call us. So yeah, Tony Pollard, he's looking he's looking uh spry.
Uh.
He's not there yet air quotes on there, but he is making progress enough where he can take those reps. So that's a good thing. Michael Gallup, Uh, obviously he ret from his torn acl last year, but everybody wants to know how does he look going into this offseason. He's looking quite springy. We keep using that word spring. He has a bounce in his step. It looks like the Michael got the prime Michael Gallup, It looks like he might be back. He was running routes quite well.
He was elevating with ease, he was effortless. So he got targeted a lot by Dak Prescott. So Dak is pushing him early to get him back to prime for him. So all signs point to a goal for Michael Gallup. And I love what Micha McCarthy said last week as far as expanding Gallup's role going into twenty twenty three, So the expectation now and we'll keep an eye on this to see if it starts to pan out that way over the course of OTA's Mini camp and then
ultimately training camp. But Mike McCarthy did say Gallup is going to be utilized more underneath. They're going to start expanding his route tree. So not only is he going to be that go route out physical a guy high point the ball, but they're looking for him to refine his.
Routes as will So did you see that same thing Nick out of practice, because I know whenever I was watching.
Yeah, it looked like there was a little bit of burst there.
From Gallup, which is exciting to see because you didn't see a ton of that on film last year.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And we keep using the word springy because he keeps using the word spring Yes, it's very fun just because what he's been able to overcome over these last two seasons. There's a little new sense of confidence with him and with the expanded rowtree that Mike McCarthy will be able to do for him. I think it's going to open up this offense top to bottom. You take Brandon Cooks out of the equation. I think being able to just expand Gallup's game helps helps open up all
the other weapons as well. So if you have a fully healthy Michael Gallup going into the season and being able to utilize him to a way he hasn't been utilized through his first four or five seasons here, then you know that's that automatically adds another layer.
Zay, have you ever had a room wide receiver room or even when you were a quarterback, that had an influx of a veteran wide receiver or even just more talented wide receiver, and then it helps elevate the game from underneath him on the depth chart. Let's say Brandon Cooks, he's now the divine defined wide receiver.
Two? Does that elevate Michael Gallup as a wide receiver?
Three?
Have you seen an instance of that in the past? Yeah, it has to challenge you.
I mean I think back to the time where I was with New England and we had myself, Randy Moss, Julian Edelman, we brought in Tory Holt right, we had David Patman, like we had like some veterans that were coming back into the fold that had to elevate everybody else's game. You either stepped up or you stepped out, one of the two type of type of situation. So having that competition in the room, obviously understanding that you're in a solid number three role is still going to
challenge you. And the fact that you have Cooks now in the fold is going to obviously expand his game. That is Michael Gallup's game, because now he has another veteran that he can learn from, somebody who's proven, somebody who's not trying to figure themselves out, somebody who's not trying to get there, you know, get the respect in the league like CD and you know some of these other guys in a room.
This is Cooks.
He's been been around for a solid minute, right, it doesn't matter who steps on the field against him.
They know that he's a weapon.
So this is somebody that he can lean on and get their expertise without having to get those physical reps. So now you add his confidence factor back into it along with his health, and now all of a sudden, you have somebody that you have to be be worried about on the Field.
I like the way you said step up or step out because that's kind of the theme around the wide receiver room this offseason, because there are a lot of wide receivers.
I mean, let's just go down the depth chart.
You know, the top three Ceedee Lamb, Brandon Cook's, Michael Gallup Boom boom boom. Those guys are the top three guys, and it's pretty defined. There After that, it's a jumbled mess. It is a jumbled mess. You got third round pick Jaylen Tolbert, who of course needs to see a step up. If you've got fifth round pick from twenty twenty.
One, semi Fojoko, he needs to see a step up.
Cavante Turpin, signed as a free agent, made an impact on special teams, but where was his impact from a wide receiver standpoint?
Not there. Then after that you have a mixture of guys that were either practice squad guys or going to be rookies.
Dennis Houston, Ontario, Drummond Aalen Brooks, John Stevens Junior, who was undrafted free agent cropper from Fresno State. Jalen Marino, cropper from Fresno. He was also a free agent Antonio Callaway was signed as.
A free agent. You've got a number of these guys that want that last spot. They want that fourth wide receiver spot. Maybe they carry five, but let's say there's four.
Just for the conversational purposes. Who has a step up in that regard? Pat based on where they are right now and a long way from training camp. Who do you feel like has a step up?
Baby bounces.
Yes, that's the best way to put it. Every one of those guys has to step up. Jalen Tobert. This is a former third round pick. You look at him and you say, well, you know what are the Cowboys going to get from him in year two? Semi Fojoko. He's been in the system several years now. He has chemistry with both the backup quarterbacks and with Dak Prescott. He absolutely took over training ca amp last year. Suffered a little bit of an injury that kind of set
him back. He spent the remainder of the season trying to get back.
To that point.
I sat there and watched Ota one last week, and guess who took the lead again in the wide receiver for a battle Simmi for Hoko. Now the question is no longer can Simmi for Hooko be dominant in the offseason program. It's now time for him to show he can be that guy in the regular season, but for Hoko versus Tobart. But then you talk about Turpin. I spoke specifically with Terpin's special teams rules aside because he said he's not fair catching a damn literally, that's what he said. Special teams.
Uh, there you go.
Special teams rule changes the side as far as the receiver goes, as far as the receiver role goes. I asked him, did he have a conversation with the Cowboys coaching staff at the end of last season about potentially getting more reps or getting some good quality reps that aren't just you know, reverse sweeps, sweeps and jet sweeps, And he said in his exit interview with Mike McCarthy that specifically was a point. McCarthy asked, you know, when your body is rested and it feels better, we're gonna
look to try to do that. Cavante let him know I'm looking to try to do that. So looks like they're in lockstep. He was getting some reps on offense, a good bit of reps on offense, some with the first team, a good bit with the second team, so they're trying to work him in and then you go backward from there. So we just talked about Tobert. I feel like it's gotta happen, Simmi Fojoko, It's gotta happen,
Cavante Turpin. We'll see how Special Teams goes. But if special teams, if that new rule kind of changes how he returns. He said it won't, but if it does, then he needs to add more value to his roster spot by becoming that wide receiver threat. And then you have these younger guys who are coming up who are gonna try to have to win their role. It's on a special team's capacity, knowing they probably won't have a real shot at wide receiver.
Four.
You talked about Antonio Callaway, speedy veteran former Cleveland Brown. He was signed to the practice squad. Hadn't seen him since he was signed to the practice squad. What does his speed bring to the table this offseason and going into the season. I say all of that to say yes, the answer is yes. Each one of these guys in for their respective reasons, has to step up and make their name for them sales right now.
I think Turpin has the advantage just because he doesn't have the pressure that the other guys in that room have. And when you can go out there, hey, I got nothing to lose. I'm still gonna be a Pro Bowl kick returner over here. You know, maybe you play with a little bit more confidence in that way.
But is that the case though, because Deuce Vaughan needs a spot on the roster too, or at least he's fighting for a spot on the roster, And if he's going to do so, wouldn't it be a return possibility there too, wouldn't he have returnability and he would probably fill the same role that Turpin would. I'm a special team stamp.
I like that point, But I really think duce Von is just insurance in the return game at this point. Turpin, he's got his name on the wall. I know he mentioned it a couple of times. He's going to be that return guy. As far as the other guys in the room, though, they have a lot more to prove, you know, they're fighting for that roster spot. Turpin's already got one. He's chilling, he's sitting back looking good. I've
mentioned it a couple of times too. Go back and look at Turpin's TCU tape because his offense game what he was able to do do there, how he was able to spread that offense out, line up out, why come in for jet sweeps, line up in the backfield, be able to take handoffs right up the middle. I mean, he's got that versatility to where he can add an extra layer to the offense if the Cowboys want him to do that.
Is that out on the coaching staff from last year and not getting him involved the right way or is that just another element that needs to be opened up by this year's coaching staff, because I mean, I wrote an article last week about the new language, but it's not new language.
It's Dax language. It's what they keep.
Talking about with Mike McCarthy, Brian Schottenheimer and Dak Prescott. Throwing the Cavante Turpin wrench into things. Can open up your offense, can open up the screen game, which has been dormant. He could open up the behind the line of scrimmage. That opens up the vertical game.
Which is for the most part, been dormant, At least toward the back half of last year. It was very dormant. They didn't have a vertical game. Can they unlock that? Though?
Like that's my thing. It goes back to what you were talking about with Simmy Fojoko and in practice. But I mean, I feel like I'm Alan Iverson. We're talking about practice. Like we're talking about practice here. You gotta show out in pads, Simmi Fojoko looks great in training camp, but then you put the pads on and things don't work out preseason even he's got to show out in the preseason if he has any chance.
Of going into the regular season and having an impact.
Yeah, when it comes to these guys and you guys specifically about Cavante Turpin, obviously he's locked.
Urp is locked, right.
He earned that respect last year in terms of his ability to play receiver again, go back and watch his film. I don't think as a matter of can he. I think it's just a matter of last year they asked him to do what he does best, and that's return the ball.
They didn't ask.
Anything more of him and didn't want to risk and didn't want to risk it, right, So why ask somebody to do something outside of themselves that might distract them from the one thing that he does amazingly great.
It was the kiss technique, right, keep it right.
So that was last year. There's a whole different year now. So now you look at it from the receiver standpoint, take the return element out of it. Positions one through.
Four are locked.
They're locked, right, I mean all four for the top four spots are locked when you put turping into the mix.
Okay, so now you talk about one, maybe two, maybe two because it depends on how they use turping, Well, it depends on how they will.
It depends on the tight end position. From my perspectively, I see them carrying. I see them carrying four tight ends with this new offense that that that coach is bringing in. So I see them carrying four tight ends. If you got four tight ends, there's no way you're keeping six receivers. So now it's starts becoming a numbers game, especially when you throw a quarterback element into it that
we talked about last week. There's three quarterbacks on a roster, so now we start looking at start counting all these dog on numbers, and then you gotta look at defense. Well, you know they're not gonna short Dan Quinn on the number of guys that he wants. So it really becomes a numbers game.
And this is when everybody has to start counting their reps and start counting their positions in terms of how many what the depth chart is looking like turpens a lock.
So it comes down to the Jayln Tober and see me for Hoko, Seemi Foro. Hoko is more proven than Jaylen Tobert.
Facts. What's gonna happen this year in camp? Well, we're gather wait and see for Hooko.
Had barring any injuries last year, he would have been the last spot right there. Okay, that's the reality going into it this year. Who do I have more confidence in? I have more confidence in? Wow, that is my competence meter right now.
So it's not because Tolbert hasn't done anything exactly but has to prove it wrong. But he has to prove more this Simmy, does I agree?
All for Hoko has to do is provide consistency that transfers from the offseason program, in training camp, through the preseason and into the regular season. He has shown that he can make plays. The question is can you do it in the regular season. Jalen Tobert, we have seen him struggle even in practice at time, So it's not unfair to say you are far more confident as far as a head to head matchup that it's semi for Hoko right now now? Can Jalen Tobert flip that script
as the next couple of months roll by? Absolutely he could. Will he will see because again we talk about chemistry. Simmy already has chemistry with all three quarterbacks.
The one thing that I would throw a wrench into here is the fact that it is a second round pick we're talking about here, and there's a pride factor there because you've seen it before the twenty nineteen they took Tristan Hill in the second round.
They gave him a long time.
They gave him a lengthy amount of time to get it right and to figure it out, and then what do they do?
They moved on. But they did it in twenty twenty two. They didn't do it in twenty nineteen. Twenty twenty. Let's talk about that.
Tolbert might have a longer excellent except for this Tobart, I think that would apply more to Kelvin Joseph Okay, but that's a conversation.
Tobert is a third round pick. You're right, so that, but a top one hundred pick top one hundred, So that's what I'm saying.
So you're right, But also he doesn't have as much leeway as a second round pick like Kelvin Joseph would have. And Joseph's still one year further along as well, and he is, and so let's let's put a pin because.
We got to go back to that.
We'll go back to that absolutely. But I love Isaiah's point. But I will about four wide receivers, but I will say it this way. I don't see it as the top four are locked, the top three are locked, and four.
Spots are locked.
But I don't because if you word it that, okay, then it's like Turping is guaranteed wide receiver four. I don't think that he knows. I think that it comes down to, say roster spots.
In terms of spots allocated to a wide receiver. That's it. It's not one, two, three, four.
Then it's Simmi versus Jalen and then the rest. They're going to have to get in where they fit in on the special team in the special team's capacity and try to get bones to stand on the table and pound it and say Okay, I know we don't want to take anything from Dan Quinn, and I know we're going to carry three quarterbacks and were going to carry at least four tight ends, but you got to give
me this one extra guy. Bones is going to kind of be up against it, and he's already in a situation where he's trying to replace Luke Gifford and Noah Brown facts.
But does he really have to bang on the table or do these guys just have to come up and show up?
Because neither of neither one of those guys that we're talking about, Semi Fooco nor Jayalen Tober has shown up on special teams. So I don't even think that you have to bang on the table. I think you just sit up there and lay the dog on script out and say who wants to fill this?
Right?
You know what?
That that puts the the that much more pressure on Simme and Jalen because knowing that you don't have the leg up on special teams, you have to come in and really deliver from a wide receiver standpoint and from Kavante Turpin. And I know it's so easy for everyone to say Turpin versus Deuce. I get it.
Too fast quick. Small guys have return ability.
The script kind of writes itself, but they do two different things. If you really break down and it's a running back versus a wide receiver. So then the conversation is how many running backs are we carrying versus how many wide receivers are we carrying?
Question for you guys take Turpin, Tolbert and Fojoko out of the equation. Do you have a sleeper to make the roster as a wide receiver?
I know I do. I don't actually I say it. I have two with your chest.
I have.
One is based off of what he did in year one.
That was mine. It's Dennis Houston. It didn't translate.
We keep talking about how these guys have to make it translate over into.
The d He looked really good the other he did and no pads on. It's very early, but I remember you've also seen him again. You've seen him. He's made play in.
Last July, in last August.
He's he was a front runner to kind of make the roster, but then things tapered off. And why did they tape off? Who was not throwing?
I was going to say, yeah, Dak number four his his his we talked about this ad nauseum instant chemistry with that.
Absolutely.
Once Dak was not available, Dennis Houston, a different guy became vapor Vapor. But answer your question, I think that Dallas will add a receiver by the time camp hits.
Yeah.
I wouldn't be surprised either, just to add him.
Can I can I get to you?
I haven't I have?
Can I can I get a little to what?
I would love that you're saying? T why I'm hearing d hot money first, this money versus that I just know it's out there. Everybody about was.
Far less expensive, already has chemistry with Dak, already has chemistry with the locker room.
I love that. Yeah, yeah, I was in.
And I love and I love Nook. I've always been high on Nook. DeAndre Hopkins absolutely, but I feel like his leverage using the Cowboys is leveraging for those that are saying, oh well, another instance of a player using the Cowboys as leverage and then they get released and all the Cowboys fans are like, oh well, this just means he's gonna take it.
He's coming. No, No, he's not. What are your what's your probability that Dallas brings a free agent in. By the time camp.
Hits, I would say sixty five percent.
Wow, okay, pretty good.
I'd go high. I go seventy five.
I'd probably say like sixty seventy Right in there, I'm at seventy five point three.
I like we go with getting close to a radio.
You asked the question, I'm going to turn around back on you before we go to break. By the way, give us a call eight eight eight eight five five two two ninety seven. We're taking your calls in the second break. Uh, who is your sleeper?
I would say Jalen Moreno cropper.
That was my second.
That was my second.
One thing always stands out to me about him, and I I know it was in the Mountain West, which you know, take that for what you will. But production eighty plus receptions in each of his last two seasons.
He's got the speed, he's got the route tree.
He was someone I loved during the draft process, and the fact they were able to pick him up as an undrafted free agent.
I think it is just awesome.
I had a fit round grade on him.
It makes a waves for sure.
I like wa and hey, we've already seen a late round Day three pickup from Fresno State make a bit of an.
Impact on DA. I mean, it's happened now.
He was a draft pick, he wasn't an undrafted free agent. We're talking of course about Dron Blans too, and he was on defense. But I do I like Jalen Moreno cropper. I wasn't as impressed and OTA one, but again it's OTA one. Everybody we were in May will be okay, Like everybody's gonna have a chance to show out a training camp. I remember last year we were talking about TJ.
Vasher and Dennis Houston. It felt like every day because Vasher was making highlight reel plays and then Dennis Houston was making the regular plays and looking better and growing and getting better with Dak Prescott and the chemistry there and real.
Quick talk about I'm blaming really quickly. He was taking some rips on the outside. Yeah, in OTA one, so Cowboys are kind of moving him around seeing what he can do with you know, Jordan Lewis's return looming, so things are going to get real fun, real fun.
Final thing on on OTA one before we go to break Stefan Gilmour, Oh my god.
Oh yeah, that you glides oh to the football. He was running around. He's a natural running around.
Look for the one who says Gilmore is watched is crazy.
He looks Strika, he looks looks pretty darn good. Early on. It's early. I keep saying it Arch Chris Extra star Press.
That guy is god Press coverage is there?
Bars, I see you very nice. All right, let's take our first break. When we come back. We are talking to Cowboys Nation eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven.
Give us a call right now. Get on the phone line with Chris Beam. We'll talk to you next.
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Use the code Camps twenty three to get twenty five dollars off registration. Visit Dallascowboys dot com slash camps. That's Camps twenty three. All right, back here, we're talking cowboys. It's time now to talk to Cowboys Nation. We'll get things started. You can give us a call yourself. If you're sitting at home, you're listening, just pick up the phone.
It's really easy. Toll free number. No, you won't hear you always hear that on them the radio.
It's a toll free number now eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven. Jim in Pasadena is our first caller this Tuesday. Jim, how's it going. You're on talking Cowboys?
Fine? How are you guys doing well?
Zo?
What's on your mind?
Great man?
Hey, you've mentioned Steven Gilmore and I did some tape Steady and he seems to be the exact same player as Diggs reads routs well, wants to jump, needs pressure in front of him to force a single break route and not give an extended route. But neither of them will come up and make a tackle.
So how is that going to play out?
How are we going to cover that up? I'll leave it to you to answer that.
No, that's a really guy, that's a great question, Thank you very much, Jim. And he's he's correct in the fact that, yes.
Their strength is coverage.
Their strength is making a play on the football, and their strength is not coming up and making a tackle and we saw that. I mean, we talked about it at nauseum. You talked about it at nauseum last year, Trayvon Diggs, what was the one thing we wanted him to do? Improve TAKEO come up and make a play, come up and make a tackle, specifically, be physical. Stefan Gilmour is more physical than Trayvon Digs just based off of the film that we've seen.
But is he a completely different player or the he said he was the same player.
I don't.
I don't know if I agree. I don't think he takes as many risks as Trayvon does.
Patrick, what do you say, Well, if you compare him to twenty twenty one Trevon Diggs, then you could say, well, I don't see that he takes as many risks. But last year at Trevon Diggs scaled back the amount of times that he chose to take that risk because he was more so understanding that the team needs him more to be that coverage guy versus simply being the ballhawk.
He was still a ballhawk, and he had two or three dropped interceptions that would have had him right there with Deron Bland as far as leading the team so his ballhawk ability, ballhawk and ability is still there. Stefan Gilmore, his ballhawk and ability is still there. I will say now comparing the twenty twenty two version of Trevon Diggs to twenty twenty three Gilmore not entirely different. You're not going to get the best tacklers from either one of
those guys. But to your point, Jim, they both thrive when they have an elite pass rush in front of them. Good news, they have an elite pass rush in front of them here in Dallas, so that's going to work in their favor. How do you mask some of those situations where Higgs or Gilmore may not come up and tackle? How you want your safety unit, your safe unit and your linebackers. That's how you mask it. Your linebackers. Du Mont Clark playing sideline, the sideline lve We'll see what
demarve On Overshown can bring to the table. Those kind of sideline the sideline linebackers help protect you. Be it screen screen passes from the opposing offense, and you got to crash down and cover that. It allows your cornerbacks to be able to play more freely as far as in coverage. So that's answer your question. From my standpoint, that's how you cover athletic linebackers.
They have it.
Elite pass rush to shorten and shrink those windows. You have it, and then you have a safety unit. Three headed monster jay Ron kurtzt Donovan Wilson, elite hooker. They kind of know how to play football too.
Yeah, and at least into my answer, if you have two aggressive boundary guys, then you have to have nice weapons around them that are balanced, and Jim, we have that. So it was a great question, Jim. But let's say at the worst case that they don't have those weapons around them. It's two Treyvon Diggs a bad thing. No,
I don't think it's a terrible thing. It's not ideal maybe in some instances, but looking at Stefan Gilmore's career, you know, as as his career has gone on, he's slowly started to take a little bit of aggression out every season, which is it's a good thing and a bad thing in some ways. And maybe that's a different conversation, but what he's been able to take away is those jumping those routes and you know, letting someone take take it to the crib. Seventy five yards. And we saw
it last year with Trayvon against Cooper Cup. When he took that, it was like right over the middle route. He just took it seventy five yards to the crib and I was like, man, that was that was a second year Trayvon Diggs right there. So I don't think we'll be seeing a lot of that next season from either of the boundary guys. But even if that's a lot of turnovers and dan Quinn wants to turn the ball.
Over, yeah, and here's the thing, and I'll pass this to Isaiah, but from twenty twenty one, Trayvon Diggs the eleven interceptions. Yes, an incredible season out there, but on film, what was Trayvon Diggs his better year twenty one or.
Twenty two, twenty two? Yeah?
Right, yeah, agree, So he could still take a step up in that regard and continue to force Turnoversah, but now you have the second guy to play off of, like Nick is talking about, and I think it does it opens Trayvon Digs up to be able to take that guy because all of a sudden, yes, the number one guy is probably still going to be covered by Trayvon Diggs.
But he's not going to travel either way. So either your one or your.
Two wide receiver is going to be covered by either Trayvon Diggs or Stefan Gilmore.
Clem, Yeah, I mean, first of all, coverage wise, you know, Trayvon istefinding Gilmore. Both of those guys are now patient. Gilmore is more patient than Trayvon because he's seen more and he's more confident in his ability to actual.
Passer rating allowed last year, Gilmore eighty three, just under eighty three and Trayvon Diggs.
Was just under ninety nine.
So it is there's a little bit of a difference. Gilmore has been better coverage wise.
But you look at their position, coach, and then you look at the fact that Gilmore is bringing that wisdom. You know Trayvon's going to continue to improve in that regard. When it comes down to the tackling aspect, you are not wrong about last year and his unwillingness, thank you, to tackle. It's not a stainability. It was an unwillingness all the ability a couple of times.
Absolutely, So it's not it's not a matter of can he tackle or is he a good tackler, It's just he just didn't want to tackle.
So when you talk about that aspect of things, you address that by saying, we need you to make a certain effort to try to get some guys down to the ground, and at the very minimum, we need you to come up and force them into your help.
So I need you as a defensive back. Once you see a.
Run thread, once you see a screen thread or whatever it may be that's underneath your coverage, Okay, you make the decision to come downhill, and I need you to shoot the outside hip. What a shooting the outside hip does what It takes away their ability to get to the sideline. And by taking away their ability to go to the sideline, they have to then go where inside. And when you're going inside, you're going to your flowing second level, your flowing defensive line.
All those guys that are coming out to that coverage.
So at the very least, I just need you to come down here and go dog on roman reigns at their outside laid right and send them back inside to your help. Even just just throwing your body out there like that will sure up a lot of the tackling issues that we have last year.
It just protect us acknowledge helm.
Now get to the outside, put a bot in the way and force him back to your help side.
That has the ability. We've seen him on a couple of occasions last year, key situations, crashed down on the running back and keep that running back from getting that key first down that the Cowboys might have lost the game if that was a conversion, so we've seen it. Does he have some Dion in his game? Yeah, he does. Dion made a lot of business decisions when.
It came to tackle.
He ended up with a pretty okay resume as far as NFL. So Trevon Diggs, he'll figure it out. But again, it's just making sure that when it comes time to crash down, just do it.
Just do it. Yeah.
But one thing that Trayvon Diggs has that Dion didn't have is that length. And when you have like that, you have to be able to tackle.
I don't care who you are.
My favorite quote, Okay today is the next set, Jim, Jim. We have that, Jim. We've got that all right. Mike and Houston, you're on talking Cowboys. What's going on? Mike?
Yeah, I don't mean to be like, you know, the league, but I just want to bring up this, Uh, this observation seems like with Zeke. Uh, you know, with the Cowboys moving on from Zeke, and you know, it brings up a gap, you know, with short yarded situation and of course past blocking. And my question is, how do you guys think that that'll you know, where the Cowboys go into training camp trying to figure out what to do to fill that void or is it crazy to think that they go back to the.
Table with Zeke. Okay, great question, Mike, I really appreciated.
And yes, Ezekiel Elliott is still available for those that may not be keeping up with it.
He's still a free agent.
Uh.
Patrick, you wrote an article on Dallas Cowboys dot com now, a really good article.
I read it this morning that uh, thank you.
Yeah, it was about McCarthy talking about the running back situation.
Is not about quote unquote replacing Zeke. But that's what Mike is talking about.
Here, replacing Zeke, possibly with Zeke, but with somebody else where do you go from him?
So, in McCarthy's right, not about replacing Zeke as much as it is unleashing these young guys Tony Pollard and now Duce Vaughn. And but then you circle back, and you say, well, production still has to be replaced if at all possible, particularly like he's saying, in the short yardage and in the red zone. That's what they brought Ronald Jones in for. They brought Ronald Jones in to be that short yardage back, that physical guy who can compliment Tony Pollard in that capacity. Now, as far as
the roster numbers go, how does that work out? When you talk about I'm confident duce Von is going to make the roster. Uh and then Hunter looky lip lip key, he has a great shot at making the roster. Full back, slash, running back, slash, slot, receiver, h slash, wherever you want.
He might be a podcast host by the end of the year.
If not for Cordell Stewart, we'd be calling him slash. But flashback. That showed my age there, But I like that. Yeah, you gotta you have to replace the production, and I think Ronald Jones has the best shot at doing that. But that doesn't necessarily mean his spot is guaranteed, because if for whatever reason, the Cowboys don't like what they see over the next couple of months from Ronald Jones, I don't think you then get that from duce Vaughan.
Then you have to turn and you look at a guy like Malik Davis and you say, you know what, you aren't necessarily built like Zeke, but you're built closer to him than Tony Pollard was, or definitely than duce Vaughan is. So that brings back the question mark what they circle back to Ezekiel Elliott. Jerry Jones has been pounding the table about this. The door isn't closed until
Zeke signs somewhere else. But putting myself in Ezekiel Elliott shoes and this is just me speaking, channeling my Ezekiel Elliott. I'm not speaking for him, but if I'm Zeke, the answer is no.
Number. The answer is no. Not only is the number going, and that could be easily reversed.
Okay, give me my number back. But from an Ezekiel Elliot standpoint and the competitor in him, he should be wanting to prove people wrong, and that's not going to happen by returning to this team. He's going to have to go to another team. Show he still has the punch, still has the juice, still has the speed, and that he can probably parlay into maybe even if not one more big contract, at least a mid level contract to potentially end his NFL career if he comes back to
the Cowboys. If I'm him, I feel like that's tail tucked between your legs, which is like, oh, well, I couldn't find another. Even if that's not true, it's the optics of the situation. So the Cowboys are not out on potentially bringing back Ezekiel Elliot if it comes to that. But I'm more so of the mindset of I think Ezekiel Elliott is kind of playing it out for training camp and injury is going to happen, and he's going to land with the team and there you go. He's
now a mercenary. He's now a mercenary.
Yeah.
If we're talking percentages, I give it like fifteen to twenty percent that he would be back in the Dallas Cowboys uniform by training camp.
Wow, That's how I see it.
But talking about short yarded situations, I'm confident in Tony Pollard to be able to be in those situations.
He compliments to the offense.
It's similar to what Zeke brought with his physicality and aggression, just being able to plow the line. Tony Tony Pollard has that finesse, he can get in, he can find the hole and he can get that yard. I'm fully confident in that pass blocking. That's the question I have.
Can Ronald Jones do that? And if he does it to an elite level, that's far superior to the other running backs on the roster, and that immediately gives away what you're doing pre snaps, So you know, I'm I'm curious to see how they they juggle the past pass blocking situation. I think that's going to be more interesting, But I'm not worried about.
You probably get that one or two yards. Get your left guard situation.
Figure We got that for the third segment. That for the third segment. It's coming, Gaal, It's coming. What do you think, Isaiah?
Now I'm along the lines with Nick. Everybody can talk about short yardage all day long. I'm unconcerned and unbothered with short yardage. I don't know the last time I saw running back outside of Henry just power plowing over anybody that comes in their way. So short yardage comes down to the willingness from the running back position to come downhill at one hundred percent speed, and then your office in line to be able to move some people
off the ball. So that's why I was on board with getting a high draft pick fourth, the left guard that we'll talk about, because no matter who you face on that front line, it doesn't matter who's behind you, they're just gonna come downhill speed and they'll get that yard.
I am more concerned with the pass blocking.
Nobody's talking about the past blocking void that is now in the backfield that Ezekiel Elliott has has left.
That's the thing you're missing the most. That's the thing you're going to miss that.
Yeah, So Cowboy's Nation, if you guys need to go back and watch film, go back and watch film. There is nobody on last year's roster or on this roster that I currently see that has the capabilities and understanding of the offense and the weaknesses of this offense all right, in terms of being able to pick up and protect Dak Prescott from falling on the ground, knowing Dak's tendencies without even seeing him. You came into the league with Dak Prescott, you were his bestie this whole time. You
know his tendencies. You know if you go to block here, He'll probably be leaning this way or that way. It's just telepathy at that point.
So yeah, and I think it makes it that more imperative that Ronald Jones becomes a threat and a rushing threat. And he's still young, he's twenty five. He's got two rings that must be nice. He's got a big career in front of him. So I mean, if he can show some sort of rushing ability, that immediately takes away the problem you.
Have that you guys just gave me a homework assignment this week, and I'm going to push it back to you guys. But Ronald Jones pass blocking film, I haven't watched it yet. I just watched him as a runner, but I'm going to go back and watch him as a pass blocker. I don't think anybody could be. It might be one of the top, if not the top, pass blocking running back.
To get Murrays, Jones drew out of retirement.
Out of retirement, you got to pull him off the studio set exactly, all right, Bob in Nashville, you are on Talking Cowboys. Welcome back to the show. How's it going.
Great? What's on your mind? Hey?
Long time no talk? I Aiah mentioned that you know, he thinks Dallas is going to keep four tight ends. I understand their arrestion now, but I'd rather keep three because I think if you keep that fullback, he can kind of do some of the similar stuff that maybe the fourth tight end would do. But I really want to see Turpin on an offense. I really think he can have that spark, that explosiveness that we were lacking,
especially running a lot of crossing routes. I just think he provides that element that none of the other two receivers Tolbert and Bojoko does So if he asked for my advice, which I'm sure they wouldn't, I'd say three tight ends, and I think we need to get Turpin more involved. Just thought i'd throw that out there.
Hey, I would listen to your advice.
That that great question, by the way, Bob, and great advice.
But you look at now that the battle shifts from Sean McEwan versus Hunter Lipkey.
All right, I mean that's kind of your fourth battle right there.
He's absolutely correct. That's what it's going to come down to. It's really going to the determining factor for whether or not this offense keeps four offensive tight ends is going to be whether a hunter and liftky can figure it out and can actually have an impact, And then you have to go to the conversation, how many times are going to line up in an eye or a weak or strong set?
What percentage of our offense is going to be based upon that. You're gonna use.
Two tight ends, quiet u two tight ends a lot, so you might want to four of those guys, I'm saying.
So I'm saying, if you're not lining up thirty percent at a time in an eye, a stronger a week set with a two back set, then what's the point of carrying a fullback unless this dude is an absolute mad man on special teams as well. So it is going to come down to how effective liftkey is and if how what percentage of your offense is going to be dictated on two back sets. There's an argument to be made either way, and I love the argument Bob
made and it just makes sense. But it also makes sense to carry four for the reasons that we just talked about, the reasons Isaiah just laid out. Not to mention the injury front. Injuries happen, and you hope none of these guys schoonmaker Ferguson Hindershot miss a single game this season, but seventeen games plus the playoffs, what are the odds that will happen. The odds are somebody's going to miss a game or two with this schedule. Yeah,
with this schedule, know lesses. So you want Seth McEwan and there, because then you also the Cowboys likely hope they can keep a guy like Seth Green on the practice squad because then that's your plus one, so your four plus one. I think that's the better way to go about it. But again, Bob makes a great point.
It's just a matter of at the end of the day, when Schottenheimer is sitting there with Mike McCarthy and the rest of the offensive staff and they say, hey, are we how often are we going to put Hunter on the field, Not just as a flex guy because you can move him out to slot every once in a while to kind of throw teams off base, but as far as strictly lining him up and saying we want you to be the full back in this particular play how many of those players are in the playbook. If
it's minimal, you got to go with the four. If he's a if he's a madman on special teams, great percentage that he's on his roster sign sure.
Yeah, because we just talked about it. Great kind up against it.
Numbers wise, and as far as talent wise, trying to figure out who's going to step Hill before Getford and Brown, he's not.
He's not wrong in his thinking right now. No, it's a great idea, and again argument can be made in both capacity. Yeah, he wants to see Turping on offense too. I think we all do. I think we all want to see that impact start to blast a little bit.
Only difference is because and we talked about this, and we talked about Semi versus Jalen, but he mentioned Simmy versus Turping. So let's quickly have that conversation. You lose and gain something with either. Turpin is faster, but Simmy's not slow. Semi is bigger and more physical, but Turpin is not lacking any toughness. So you have to kind of determine. You got to pick your spots with either one of those. And I think that it would be more practical to keep a big bodied, speedy guy like
Simmy over a guy like Turpin. If you're talking about that debate. If that's the debate, I'm going semi over time. Does that mean I don't want to see Turping get plays? No, I'm on record. I want to see him make plays, utilize them, utilize them, utilize him as a wide receiver. That said, as far as Bob's argument is concerned, Turpin versus Simmy, you're going to get more production out of Semi thing you would out of Turpin.
Turpin has that proven confidence and I just I when it comes to a position battle, I'm always looking at the production and the confidence, and that's that's what I'm looking at for Turpin.
Got it?
Yeah, I think that's something that everybody is looking for and trying to trying to see out of Turpin heading into this twenty twenty three season.
All right, let's take a break. When we come back.
The offensive line rotation was what on the first day off of OTA's the offensive line was what.
We'll talk about that.
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To Talking Cowboys. Back here on Talking.
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From new era. They always do really good job with the with their hats. I like it all right. We've got a special guests who just popped in here.
The man, the Man, the myth, the legends, mister Nate Newton, Nate, Uh, you just all I feel like you just hear offensive line.
And he just appears Peter Tingles boom. Because we we don't text you.
I mean we talked to you all the time, but like we don't text you and say, hey, we're talking offensive line.
We need your insight.
But we just we just mentioned it and Nick wrote an article online about the offensive line rotation.
But what did you see in the first first O t A you got you got a chance to watch a little bit of it.
Not much.
Uh.
What I was more interested is in the new coaches and their techniques and what they're doing.
Uh.
It's one guy.
I gotta learn his name. He said left. He's starting left guard doing the first OT as this phoney. I gotta learn his name and uh and I'm hoping that he, uh he fills in. I hope that he is the guy. I don't want to play musical chairs with offensive line. We got still that right tackle when he gets healthy. We got Martin at right guard, all everything. We got uh Fotis at the center, and I'm hoping that this new kid takes.
That place and they will have that.
Our left tackle will have Tyler Smith, and then the other guy will be our rotation guy.
They're great, all pro Tyron Tyron, And that is how we have to look at that.
Because eventually it's gonna get to that because when Tyron have that little two or three game absence, that is our guy. So that's how I'm gonna look at this starting five. Now, I know Tyron is as long as he's healthy, he's gonna be the left tackle.
But and you no, no, no right tack Okay, no Tyler.
If everything goes right, Tyrone would be the left tackle. Tyler would be the left guard. And that's how I would do it. And that's the only way I'm gonna look at it, because that's only if you want your best five. That would be your best five when everything is healthy. Now your second five is the new kid. Yes, and that's that's your second five. Now he's a semi now, yeah, what I mean is new kid up front. I'm talking about seven eight games in you know, will he be
that guy. I think he will be that guy if give him a chance to play and to develop. Now, I don't know about Ball or the guy they had last year with the hurt shoulder with Alaskaska. I don't know about all of them.
But what you have to do.
With them putting in the new language with this offense with Mike McCarthy is you can't have a lot of new guys up front. You got to get five or six guys, maybe seven guys to work together in unison because you got to understand every time I say this word, whatever this word may be, and I got a new left tackle and he don't understand what men, you just worked over the whole summer.
So when when you had this mistake, that pays for it.
Remember with a bad thumb he got the first game he's got contingentsally hit hit that's become because of the lack of working together. Because when you have a lot of leakage to the way they did that, freaking now we lose.
That Nick, give it.
Give the people a little bit of insight from obviously you being an amazing, amazing office alignment and.
They need to put some respect on it.
Let people know how difficult it is when you're used to playing next to somebody. How much nonverbal communication takes place, how much verbal communication?
How much does a tap on the shoulder, tap on the hip? How much does all that stuff play apart? And then you obviously you swap somebody else out, and then somebody else is in that role. How much of an effect does it have on your communication with the individual?
And I'm gonna say it again, it's it's your quarterback. He's gonna pay for it out of all all the positions. When you have lack of communication, like you said that, when when you'll see Dak walk up to the line, and I'll use the quarterback because it's simple favor. Dak will walk up to the line. He'll do something like this, now we were around here saying what in the world. Or he'll do something like this, what No, but to receivers, no them tight ends, no, the slop backs.
No that nonverbal Yes, yes, he'll come up and say, bighead twins, bighead twins, that mean too quick slants because they can't get down the field.
But but what But what's happening at the office of line. Let's give everybody a little bit of insight. What's some of the cues that that you guys are giving to each other rights.
If I walk up to the line and they say it's an over that means the center cover and were the strong side we walk up to the tight end is on my left side, and they say over the center cover, I'm covered in the tackle cover. So if I walk up and we and we run a zone play to that side, I'm gonna say, trio, Well, that trio belongs to who that belongs to my center, me and my tackle, we're going we roll it and and
it's and that's how we roll it. If I walk up and say and they give us an even look, and I say, trio and we rolling in the same part, that means.
The backside guard, the backside tackle and me is rolling and that and that dance next that man that's next to you. That dance has to be on point.
Yes, it has nothing to do with the tackle. Now, just depending on what their look is, that word trio can mean multiple things.
And then when they.
Once they figured out dummy, dummy, we called to the lion, it's a pass place. We lean a little full trio trio, they honk her down we sitting back past man.
See what I'm saying. We we love you. We you're on the podcast next, right, Yeah, yeah, we we.
You know, we ain't as big as y'all, smart as y'all.
But I.
Also want to argue twins.
I know, I know, we gotta get out of here, bir Yeah we did, lie rich Richards, okay, and what do you guys is do we have any and so yeah, let's let's let's get Nate out of here first because he's gotta get ready for so you're just gonna hang out.
Okay, that's yeah, awesome Richards and Chemdoga. And then here's the five that you saw with the starters.
It was Tyler Smith at left tackle, it was Matt Farniac at left guard, Tyler Biottish at center, Josh Ball at right guard, and then Tyrone Smith at right tackle. That was the offensive O T put it back on. I mean, hey, listen about and you don't have Terrence Steele either. There's no Terrence Steele and no Zach Martin available in practice.
Ball bumped down the guard.
Ball was in he was taking guard snaps. Yes, So that was the rotation. We saw a little bit of awesome Richards and that was about it. A little bit of awesome Richards and and honestly, you you talked about the guard position and you put an article online about the left guard candidates with ch Madoga, Matt Farniac and Josh Ball. I want to answer that question first, because I mean, you wrote the article, but what do you think about the way that it's shaking out.
I like where Matt Farniock is and I'm glad that's kind of the consensus here. I think whenever it comes to rotating in and you mentioned something Nate, the last seven seasons, Tyron Smith has missed games at least three games the last seven seasons, and there hasn't been a really clear plan to replace him. I think last year they got really lucky because Tyler Smith was really good at his job. Going into this year, if they can have a plan to replace him at age thirty three,
he's only getting older. If he goes down, I don't want to say when. If he goes down, then there has to be a reliable plan. I think Matt Farnioc can be that reliable plan. I think Matt Farnioc is the better offensive lineman in that group that is in the mix for that for that role, I think Chuma Yidoga is the better guard though, so I'm curious to see how they go about doing that well.
And I'm owned record as constantly saying over these past few weeks, keep an eye on Matt Foarnioc. I understand that he has experience as a center, but I'm looking for the Cowboys to get him reps at left guard so that they can pit him against Chu Moneydogas so they can pit him against the fifth round pick Austin Richards.
But the lead goes to Farnioc.
So if Farniac can remain healthy, that's kind of been his problem, is that the injuries have slowed his development. If he can become healthy, then yes he can be or at least challenge for the left guard position. And but for me, though, it goes back to best five, which I have the same best front five is as Nate does. It's Tyrone, Tyler, the Yaddish, Zach Terrence. So for me, that means you're fighting for LG two, which is still you still need that because somebody's gonna go
down with injury, likely seven to seven. You don't want to see it happen, but his past few seasons have shown it's probably gonna happen. So then when that happens, Tyler goes out, and then you put Farnioc in at left guard and you try to keep everything right of left guard exactly how it needs to be.
That's the risk you take with playing best five with that rotation, because I agree that is your best five.
But the risk that you take is that then it opens the door. That's true for a revolving door.
There's an argument that because may to say, you know, it'll be easy seventy seven, that's your swing. But then that immediately means that a Fontioca, whomever moves to LG, they have to from minute one. They have to be ready to be that guy. And we'll see how these next two three months play out. But as we have this conversation, I don't know that any of those three are ready to be that guy right now.
Yes they are. Yeah.
You don't draft players and send them on the bench for five years unless they quarterback and then say.
Hey man, are you ready. No, you're not gonna be ready.
The only way to get ready today's NFL is to play today's NFL does not allow you, unless you are a quarterback, to say, hey man, we're gonna take it easy on you. Now it's five years done, passed you ready, ain't took a snap. You got to play these guys. It's called development. Training camp has to mean something. If you don't have a seven or more year thing on your back, training camp has to be the way you make this team.
Do know, No, but we're not.
I'm not saying take it easy because they're going to play these guys. They're gonna get these reps, push them. They're gonna push these guys. But going back to what I said about Farnioc and the injury history having slowed his development, when I say I don't know if these guys are the guy right now, Farniyoc has to show me he can take these reps first team and second table and make it out of training camping preseason with
no injury. Then we can have this conversation at the beginning of September and I can say, Okay, he's now made it physically.
There's four guys for Hoko. Is that it to send me for Holtber? Now we can add this. We got like twenty guys. You gotta translate. Come on, these guys know they gotta make it happen. They gotta make it. We've got an opportunity is there. We've got to go. We've got to make it.
Halfway getting out of here, I think, honestly, yeah, we gotta we gotta make something.
I sit around table, babe, it is. It's fun, all right. You're always welcome. We got like twenty guys. We gotta get ready.
Nate, Nate Newton, Isaiah Standback, Nick Harris, Patrick, No se Walk.
I'm Kyle Yeomans.
Will see you next week next Tuesday to Central Time with more Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallascowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.