Talkin’ Cowboys: When Will Zeke Watch End?

And this is training Camp two thousand nineteen. We are at the corner of Vineyard Inventura and Oxnard, California, and the Cowboys will be out on this practice field behind us well for a little walkthrough right after Talking Cowboys this morning, and then the first practice of the two nineteen training camp coming up this afternoon. I am Bill Jones with Brian brought us, Mickey Spagnola, Rob Phillips, and

we are set to go for another training camp. It's it's like Christmas is comment, isn't it the return of Talking Cowboys? That's right? This is Talking Cowboys And this is the first of fifteen practices here in Oxnard. The way I look at it over the course of the next three weeks, it's like a sixteen game season. Ah, you're gonna divide this thing up, that quarter, divide it up. This is we're playing the giants today. This is game

number one. Now, how do I get to sixty because there's a preseason game in the middle of that too at San Francisco. Yeah, that's good. That's again Oklahoma math, you know. But I like the way you're thinking about that because I think as players and coaches, you kind of break it up too, you know, the first a few practices and stuff, everybody trying to get acclimated each other.

They've had the OTA practices, the mini camp. But we'll notice, and we'll talk about it quite a bit, the intensity of these practices, you know, And I think that's where you know, players will see the players that will have rises, then they'll fall. Then you know, you got to You gotta avoid the ups and downs of a training camp practice or the grind of a practice. Hopefully our show won't. We'll be on our way up the way we're gonna stay.

We're gonna stay on even kill go up. Mickey and I will try and kill each other one or two shows, but that's maybe Bess are putting them next to each other. I did. This is good right here. You hot to get hit by the backflap and making it out are good with this. But but like I like what you're doing, though, And I think players do the same thing. I think that they really, you know, they figure out, Okay, you know, I can't have any bad days. It's gotta have good days.

It's gotta keep building, gotta keep doing. And that's the great thing he's saying, Okay, how can I get through these It'll be it'll be a test for a lot of these young kids. It's a it was a young roster last year and a lot of these cads coming back now knowing guys like Michael Gallup now know what it's like to have a full training camp practice under his belt. Now he knows what he has to do

to elevate his game as well. You mentioned the intensity, and it's really gonna pick up Monday, yes, Saturday, Sunday. And I think it's the right thing not to have these padded practices these first two days, because we've talked about it. You take a month off. These guys are in shape, they have the conditioning run yesterday and all that, but you know, ease them back in and then yeah, once the pads get on Monday, that's gonna be interesting.

But the pads for talking cowboys are on intensity begins today, you know. But Nicky and I've always talked about this too, though, and I think I'm still on the same page with you about this. Is if they could have, you know, could have had more time off early and then came to camp this offseason later and then getting where you could we could jump into the pads and stuff like that, where they didn't have five six weeks off. That's where I think to worry. I think to worry about everybody

at this table. I think to worry about all the guys and gals over in this building over here are thinking about, Okay, how do we get that mean we've already seen some you know, if you're following news around the league, you've already seen some guys getting banged up and hurt and stuff banged up. Well that's so I'm just I don't want to kind of make that cloud over his first opponent, the Giants. So yeah, that practice,

that's the thing you worry about. Easing in good But man, I think, you know, I'd like to see him hit the ground running. But I totally agree with Rob. I understand what they're trying to do, or what the league's trying to do with the player safety and stuff like, and I think they did a very good job on the conditioning run yeah, I got that again, think that they survived that. And even though the weather here is pretty good, when they were coming off the field, there

was some sweaty. Boy, does it look like well, I won't use that analogy, Go go ahead. What is it that? You know? How? You know they put us off the airs, you know, after the Kentucky Derby and absolutely that all sweaty lathered up. You know what. I knew exactly where you were going with that. I had to think twice about using Yeah, so but yeah, no, I think you know, now this field is is fairly new, and U already inspected the field and all they did was run on it. Okay,

what do you what did you inspect? Exactly? It looked like a golf course, so you know how there is a golf course over here. Maybe this is the they were over here. And the football they weren't like cutting and you know, turning and pivoting and they were just running straight ahead and there were a lot of divots. So the grass is not real thick, so we'll see. This is kind of its gorgeous. I mean, it's good gorgeous. Yeah, but it looks like a soccer field. Yeah. Did you

notice anybody's divots that wasn't there? Did you divots? Somebody that fell in there divot? No? No, did you notice somebody that wasn't out there making divots? Oh? Oh yeah, there was one person. Yeah, and I would imagine he would have trouble cutting on this. So maybe it's good that this guy's got some balance to him though. Yeah, he does have some balance. Yeah. You get to you get to practice field worked in before he shows up. If he shows up at you want to get to

the elephant in the room. Yeah, okay, number twenty one, All right, what do you make of it? He's not here, and you know what, they don't see, they don't seem bothered by it. And I know everybody out there is panicking and the anxiety levels high because Ezekiel Elliott is not here. But you know what, not very long ago, this was standard operating procedure in the National Football League.

Guys holding out to try to improve their contracts or to get contract Back in the day when the contracts expired, they didn't have free agency, and there was always haggling going on, especially with the rookie class, the rookies didn't have this rookie scale pay and there was always first round draft choices holding out every year. God, I could remember,

no question. I mean, it was like half my time in training camps were spent tracing down contract negotiations, talking to agents, getting one side of the story, the other side of the story. And the NFL's kind of eliminated that the way the system is now with this new CBA. But again, if somebody want thinks they're not getting paid enough, then I guess Zeke can do what he wants to do.

But if he watched the press conference yesterday, if it was me, I would think they're not really upset what am I doing here because they could make me just sit. But the bottom line on all this, and I'll get to the bottom line of it all, guys do not miss paychecks, right, that's fair Now late not and somebody's gonna say, well, Leveon Bell did it okay, fine, and then you never make that money up. But guys do not miss paychecks. Just remember what happened last year at

this time. What Earl Thomas in Seattle and what did he do? He signed on Tuesday before the season opener. That's fair. And there is the thirty day rule thing that's hovering over this whole thing that like it's okay, maybe it's a Zeke hold out, but August six is the day you think he would report because if he wants to get the free agency, he's got to be here by then to get that accrued fourth season. So he's got another year to do that too. He does, he could do that next year he does. That's I

don't think it'll ever get to that point. I don't either. I don't think, which is why the Cowboys, which is why I don't. I don't look at the August sixth deadline is affecting Zeke that much just because he's The Cowboys are going to sign him sometime, whether it's now or proved to a long term deal, whether it's this year or next year, whenever, it's never, that's not He's never going to get to free agency unless he does something off the field that keeps him from, yeah, signing

a long term Do you feel like though that? Yeah, And again I really appreciate what everybody's saying here, but can you focus on the other Would he be a type of guy that would sit the whole entire season. I know, Mickey, You're absolutely right. Players don't miss paychecks, and I think they have a firm, firm understanding of Zeke with Zeke's lifestyle the way he is. I'm not trying to slam Zeke, but he needs money. I'm I'm just gonna say it. You know he needs money. He makes,

He made a lot of it. He needs money the way he lives, and that's because the way he plays, and he deserves that right to live the way he wants. But do we do we just is there a side that we could say that he might take the leveyon Bell. I know you're not going to get the money back, but is that in your mind? Is it a ten percent worry that, you know what, maybe he will Maybe Zeke will be so stubborn that he won't use to

use the Levy on Bell example. Is is there something in him that has done the history lesson on him at Smith where he might do the immittt Smith thing, not with the intent of sitting out a whole season, but just long enough. I don't where the Cowboys really I agree with Mickey. I do agree with Mickey about not missing paychecks. Because we talked about Earl Thomas. He's but I just I think it's fair to say, is

this a different cat. Here's here's somebody. It's holding out two years before it's time, not a year, but two years. Is his approach his or his agent? Yeah? I don't. I don't talk to Rocky Arson. Yeah I don't either. But this is where all this has started. Okay, And now here's the deal. It Are they asking for something that is so unreasonable that the cowboys don't budge, because they will budge, right if you're reasonable and meet him in the middle. If they're asking for unreasonable uh salary

demand hands, then this thing can be protracted. Because I'll tell you what I've seen Jerry Jones operate locations like this, and he could be awfully stubborn. Sure, But to double down on that, I think Stevens even more stubborn. And to your point, the way they were talking at the press conference yesterday, coming out and saying he's late, we

expect our guys your contract to be here. I don't think they want to set a precedent that, oh, if you're gonna hold out, then we're gonna budge, and we're gonna try to accommodate you while you're away. They don't want uh, because look, they got a lot of young, good players on this team. They don't want to repeat of this every time a guy's got a contract up that hell, oh, all I gotta do is not show up and then we'll we'll try to meet you in

the middle and accommodate you. I'm surprised he's not here. I honestly thought they and there's a lot of people in the organization I think that thought he would be here, and I think I thought the Cowboys would be able to tell him, look, we love you, just show up. Well, we'll keep talking. We'll get this done. But it's not there yet. And and to Mickey's point, maybe it's because they're far apart. So so why is the agent advising Zeke to do this? I heard he was. I don't

know how experienced of an agent he is. I'm not familiar with them, but he's been the business for a while for a while. Well, I had heard that he didn't really contracts this new CBA. Some of the things they have to work through. I think, uh. Significant is when Zeke was seen at the Star on Wednesday, he didn't look like a man that was peoed, like he was smiling, shaking hands with people. I'm told, uh so, Yeah,

it doesn't seem like it's contentious. It's kind of a ploy that everybody tries to use to try to get lever. I think it gets right back to Todd Gurley last year. I mean, the agent saw what the Rams did with Todd Gurley. He was in the exact same position that Zeke is right now. He was going he had two years left under trolled by the Rams because he was drafted in twenty fifteen. Zeke was in twenty sixteen and he got a four year for whatever fifty seven million

dollar deal, whatever it was. On July twenty fourth of last year is when Todd Gurley signed. And I think Zeke's agent thinks the Cowboys should treat Zeke the way the Rams did Todd Gurley. I think Bryant nailed it right before camp when we were talking about it. You know, when we talk about these guys up for contracts, who do we name first Dak and then who Cooper? And this is a guy that and again that was on

him to a certain degree. Six games suspension two years ago but had he not been suspended six games, Hey, I'm probably a three time rushing champ. Three years in the league, three time rushing champ. Like you say, Brian, just give me a seat at the table. And maybe it's just kind of trying to remind the Cowboys. Look, I am, I want this. You know I deserve this. I want this. Is it the right way to go about it? Maybe not? Just remember and I don't have

I could call it up and read it. But Jerry Jones, the most forceful and emotional he got is when somebody asks him about comparing Zeke's contract or Das contract to Carson Wentz, and he went on a litany and he think he started with Saltney said twice. It was a litany of the contracts that we have to sign. And our list is different from somebody else's list, and our

salary cap is different from somebody else's salary cap. And I'm not going to be dictated by this quote unquote market value that the media loves to rest on when they make their argument that wealth that guy get paid that, then the next guy's got to get paid more. And I'm sure the agent thinks the exact same way. And to the point what Rob said is and he ended it with saying, if I do this, I'll have a line outside my door everybody coming up and say, hey, Jones,

I want some of your money. And that's why you gotta put your foot down, because that exactly is what will happen. And that was always the argument, uh for guys that were under contract before free agency began, that if one guy held out and you cave, then the next guy goes, hey, what about me? Could could part of this be and I'm just gonna throw this out. Could part of this be that they have so much confidence now in Dak Prescott and being able to carry

this team? You know, I'm saying that that you know you think you think without Zeke can Dak Prescott carry this team. I don't think they're making any decision on without Zeke. I think they want to get it done, but they want to get it done in a fairer way and not somebody asking for outlandish money. Yeah. I feel that they wanted about Dad. If they thought they were going into this season without Zeke any chance not having Zeke on the field, their backup running back situation

would look different. I realized they drafted a fourth round running back, the seventh round running back. Absolutely, they got Darius Jackson and Jordan Chun, but they would have a veteran guy ready to go if if they didn't think Zeke was gonna be playing this year. I think it's could be both things. Brian, like, they feel good about Dak taking a step forward. Yeah, but if you're trying to hoist the Lombardi Trophy at the end of this thing,

they know you need twenty one. They know it. But it comes down to, yeah, what Mickey said, what I said earlier, the president, you don't want to set this question question, can't have it. They've got too many good players that have contracts up, and if they're lining up at the door, and if you talk to them, this whole thing is not about the salary cap this year. It's about the salary cap next year and the salary

cap in twenty twenty one. When you get into the unknown needs to be knocked out and what kind of rules are are you coming up with? And you don't want to hamstring yourself because all you were thinking about you were shortsighted and all you were thinking about is twenty nineteen. Oh, I got twenty four million dollars of space available. Okay, that's fine. What happens that at space next year? When immediately, immediately DeMarcus lawrence base salary goes

from one point five million to sixteen million. And then if I got another guy that has sixteen million, and another guy that has twelve million, and another guy that's going to have thirty million, what happens to my cap next year? Because the CAP's gonna go up, yeah, but it ain't gonna go up that much. You know. It's interesting and bringing up the Todd Gurley thing, and you compare the I know Jerry does not want as you said. As Jerry said yesterday, he's not comparing his situation with

the Ram situation. But here's the difference between the Rams and the Cowboys. Well, there's several similarities. Number One, last year they had to sign their top defensive player, who's the best defensive player in the league, Aaron Donald. Whatever. Cowboys did that with DeMarcus Lawrence in the offseason. They also traded for and then and got and had to

sign a long term Brandon Cooks their wide receiver. So there's your Amari Cooper, and then their quarterback is that came into the league at the same time as Dak Prescott did. But the difference there is that quarterback was at the top of the draft and had two years left on his contract and at three years at that time, and Dak has one year left. And so that's why the Cowboys have to put Dak at the top of

the priority list right now. Dak and I think mark back to where I think Brian said, you know, those guys have expiring contracts. Ze doesn't. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you know, And that's what And Jerry and talking with reporters, I think as he was leaving yesterday, was talking about

comparing that Zeke with emm at Smith. Yeah, he said there's a difference there, that there's a difference, and he said Emmett was not under contract or what well, Emmett was under contract, but what he meant was he had an expiring contract. He was going into the last year of his deal. So we had nothing six months from

now at that time in nineteen ninety three. Yeah, I think if you listen to Emmett and that was foggy, you know, I always meant to go back and look, I think he was restricted, like he could entertain offers from somewhere, because he said he had offers from Miami to go back home to Florida, but he wanted to stay with the Cowboys, and so uh yeah, that whole

it was different, right, It wasn't the same. And this is different from Marco Murray, letting Murray walk, all those people that I see, Oh you just get going to get another one. Okay, fine, you get another one, but you won't get the one. But if you're trying to think about it from Zeke's perspective, it may be a little different for him compared to other guys in the league at different positions than a dak or Amari, because

what he plays. He plays running back, and there's a finite prime for those guys, and it people think it ends sometimes twenty seven, twenty eight years old. He's twenty three right now, I believe. So if you're twenty four, just so if you wait two years to resign him, he's twenty six, and now all of a sudden, he's creeping closer to what people say, study say, you know, the end of somebody's prime. Not that he's gonna be that, but he wants to get his money now. Because of

the position. He's a really good point rob because what happens I talk to guys. I'm not an analytics guy myself. I mean, I've I'm sitting here doing radio with you guys. I don't always look at the numbers and stuff. But I did reach out while we had a break and talk to analytics guys about running backs. And they all put Zeke in a different category. Yeah, they put Todd Gurley in a different category. They put Levon Bell in a different category. The first thing they'll tell you is

you should never sign a running back long term. But then they'll say, but, but there's some players, some backs that you have to eat. It makes you think a different way because they'll also say, don't draft a running back number four overall? Right, right right? And I think that to me, that's where you know you're kind of situates the eve the even the analytics guys who it seems like our game is gravitating towards that way. Even the analytics guys in their minds say yeah, I wouldn't

do it. But and then you talk to scouts and they're like, you know, what do you think about when you if you play Ezekiel Ellen You're like, he never comes off the field. That's I make up the number. I didn't make it up. It's two thousand and one yards. It's what he accounted for last year. That's I'm saying, you don't. You just don't sit there and say, okay, well the offensive line and you could if I personally and this is I'm hoping for a Dak elevation this year.

I really am. I'm hoping that if they if they do have to play without him, and they probably won't, but if they do had to play without him, I hope to see Dak play really, really well and be able to carry this team. If Tony Romo was the quarterback, I might even feel different. I might feel a veteran quarter even though Dak's a veteran quarterback. But I've seen I've seen like Tony take a team with nothing and

make it work. Yeah, And that's where that's what I'm trying to help Dak is what I want to Let's get into that when we come back here on Talking Cowboys. What will it take for Dak to reach that higher elevation? In just a moment, has been helping Cowboys fans see better since night seventy two said they don't miss a moment on the field. Get classes with l's best vision, clarity and protection with the Ultimate Lens Package, three innovative

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first day oh practice out here at Oxnard, Brian brought us. Yeah, I just want to say hello to all the people to hang out with us on periscope. Would be doing this every day. Make sure you check us out that way, checkout Dallas Cowboys dot com so almost Cowboys all that stuff. And also hello to all our folks that follow us overseas. I know we got a lot of folks that tune in every single day and we appreciate every single water. And there are a lot of Cowboys fans out here

in southern California as well. Some have made the trip from Texas out here for training camp and the schedu You're four today opening ceremonies. This is specific time at two thirty this afternoon and the first practice at three thirty and there's a new look to the practice field

out here. If you look off to my right looking at the field, the condos are under construction and boy, those are going to be some that's some prime real estate to watch cowboys practice next year when they are finalized. I'm just glad the guy sandblasting yesterday at this time has that was not? You handled it very well. I was in fast with you. Yeah, you know, cut it.

I'll tell you what though. The Jerry even reference it during the press credit to the residents in Yeah, they have a new general manager and uh, I think it's the Hotel Association in Oxnard because they kicked in some big bucks to kind of renovate the operation out here. And if anybody out, it's very noticeable. They've got the stay ends up. There's signage that's on the other side of the field over our shoulder back. Yeah, you can't

see it the other direction. They they've got more public parking over on that side, on the Ventura Boulevard side of the of the practice field where the people come in. So before there was just a little spot and it was for VIPs only. Now they got a huge I can't judge acreage, but it's it's like six seven acres of parking there and they've got mulched down for people. Uh, it really was Chicago. I know what one acre is, but I can't multiply it by whatever that is. But

there's a lot of room and everything. Come see us if you're here. Everything's upgraded, is what I'm telling. It's nice come see us. And then what it will be noticeable during practice if you look at the stands, which in traditionally have stretched freight basically from goal line to go line traditional stands. In the middle of it, right at the fifty yard line is probably what would you say, a twenty five yards stress That is a what is

now a beer garden. Yeah, that's where Rob and I will be up in the stands, meeting with fans and talking football and very practice. Seriously, No, I'm thinking about it though. I always go up go up there and do social setting. This is no lie though, Bill, and you'll notice this, Mickey. I think if you walk the field, as you said, there's like a yard between us and

the fans. Look at that. Yeah, there's like literally so we will be we will be, We'll be up in to stand so if you see us, let's say hello that one day there a couple of times last year and sat up real high the whole field with your fans. Yes you did. I'll take pictures for so. Anyway, it's a different look for the fan experience out here. It should be very interesting. I don't know how much beer is selling for, but the city of ox Nards doing all that, so we will know five good beer they

have that we will see. And you know what, and the best part about all this, the upgrade, is they're trying to make sure they're entice and the Cowboys to continue coming back. And I'm all for that. Yes, sixty seven degrees. It's warming up, all right. It's been pretty cool back in Dallas. It started off this morning when I went out to work out at sixty one. Okay, all right, thank you David Finfron and Rob. As you can see the one third day in a row, there's

not a cloud in the sky, absolutely right. All right, what's gonna What does it take to get Dack to the higher elevation. That's what Brian brought up in the last segment. So what do you think, you know what? I think he's on the right path. I do like the fact that I like the addition of John Kittna, just from observations of just watching the OTAs and the

mini camps and stuff. Attention to detail, you know. You know, Dak even talked about it in some of his camps and stuff that he was doing that even with John, that you know, how to point the knee point, the elbow point, you know, keep yourself in throwing position. You know, those are all things. If Yeah, we've always for years, always talked about Tony Romo. He always worked on one thing before camp, always tried to get better on one thing. I think Dak is to that point in his career

where he's trying to think about ways too. Okay, how do I improve my game? I could throw to my left, I could move, I'm mobile, I'm tough. But how can I stand there and make a good accurate throw on that dig route? How can I have a little touch pass out to the flat, or how can I get the ball to the tight end on the drag underneath him? These are all things as Dac as he grown older. It's not about playing with guts and guile and just instinct and God given ability. It's about Hey, let's work

on my craft a little bit more. Let's get a little bit more proficient with how I play. And that's where I think if you look for the elevation of the game, I think Dak was always one of those guys that understood what he had to do and what he saw. I think, but he's taken it to a whole another level with that ability to the vision and then also the athletic ability along with the mechanics to make his game better. What you got, I'll go ahead. I think it's as simple as this. Maybe I'm being

too simple with it. I think it's just time in the pilot's chair, just time on task. I mean, I think people forget that it took Tony Romo a few years. I think by the time he was towards the end of his career here, he had mastered the offense. He had seen everything a defense could could throw at him, sure free snap during the play, and was able to adjust off of it and have that calm in the pocket. And I think Dak, I don't know if the offseason

workouts or enough of a gauge. I think once we get to out here and the games will really see it. But he just seemed like such a more comfortable guy back there. In the OTA's physical he looks different too, um, but I just think he needs more time back there. Do you guys think about this? Go ahead? He is basically six games away from being where Tony was when he started playing in the NFL. I mean it was in his fourth year. Yeah, And it was six games

into the year before Parcels pulled the trigger on him. Yeah. Did everybody watch the last eight games? Yes, he was pretty good. Now you want to get better? I challenge you to look at his three year stats and Troy Aikman's three year stats. It pales. Troy's stats pale in comparison to what Dak has already done. And when did

Troy make his big leap his fourth year? Because when he left off this team, when he when he hurt his knee in ninety one, this was a six and five team, and his stats when you looked at him at that point were not all that great, and his quarterback rating was not all that great. This guy has has a career quarterback rating near ninety. He finished last year completing seventy one percent of his passes the last eight games. If you compared that to everybody else in

the last eight games. He led the league past percentage the second half of the season, and he had a one oh three quarterback rating the last eight games, and that includes getting shut out in Indianapolis, So he was pretty efficient. Now, what happened, oh, Amari Cooper, right, Marie Cooper showed up. I don't know that they changed any of his mechanics or anything significantly, sure, but he started

playing better. And if he can do what Brian said and now keep elevating the way Aikman did, the way Romo did, then you might have yourself a pretty darn good quarterback here, especially since I don't think teams this year will be able to say we'll take away Amari Cooper the way they did in twenty seventeen with Dez Bryant and we'll stop this passing game, because I think Michael Gallup and Randall Cobb are going to make a significant input to what's going on here. Now. It helps

of Zeke's there right right. I don't wish that on anybody, not to have a running game. And I don't care what the analytics say or Brad was telling me he was reading something some analytic talking about how you can't count on the running game. It doesn't help your offense. You have to be able to throw the ball. Well,

I don't agree with that. If you've got a running back that can take it to the house anytime he can touch the ball, and that helps everything everything, And add Travis Frederick into the equation, add tight ends who actually come into this season, and not talking about Witton, the other two guys that have actually caught a ball in the NFL, because neither one of them had caught a ball last year, and you were playing those guys along with Jeff Swain who had all of nine catches.

So it makes a difference. And your left guard is no longer an undersized rookie at twenty years old who should have been playing his last year at Texas. Yeah. Yeah, I mean we talked about it the first half of last year, cycling in all those different receivers without a Marie Cooper five or six. Dak even admitted like we needed to kind of trim it down, so I knew what to expect from this guy lining up in this spot, and it Cooper solved that and Michael Gallup solved that.

To your point, by really getting better game to game. Last year, I think his best game was against the Rams in the playoffs. So you're so you're expecting a jump from him to n I hate to circle back to about Zeke because but Mickey eloquently just said it, But who who benefits more from Zeke being here or not being or who struggles the most of it not being again? Was it be Dak or is it Kellen Moore? You know what I'm saying, I mean, a first year play caller, But you know Kellen Moore is that he's

been in the league. He you know, he's been around. It's not like he's just a guy that was, you know, at W. T. White High School in North Dallas and gets thrown into being an offensive coordinator. He's been in the league, he's been a team. Yeah, But but who who really benefits the most? And I'm not trying to put y on the spot, but I'm thinking, if I'm killing Moore, give me every every time everything I can

to call plays. I don't need. Okay, as much as I love Dak and as much as I want to try, and you know, if I'm killing more, I going love Dak. Want to get him involved love and Morey Cooper love, Michael Gallup love, Jason Witt love my offensive line. But does does does Dak need Zeke Moore or does Kellen Moore need him more? No? I think both. I mean, just look at the six games he missed in twenty seventeen. What did defenses do for a first year play caller.

They backed off. Yeah, I don't care who's calling plays. If the defense is backing off and they're saying, I'll absorb anything Alfred Morris does, I'll absorb it because he's not gonna beat me. I don't have to worry about him. I have to worry about Dak to death, and I'm gonna make sure, by God, those two guys aren't gonna beat me. And defenses backed off. Y, you gotta make sure that they're up at the line of scribbage and going we cannot let this cat get past the line

of square. All the things that you said about Dak makes me feel good. So I'm thinking, well, maybe it's killing Moore that needs you know, the play caller. I mean, Dak. We've all kind of seen when you said eight games, good, good trajectory going up. You know everybody Rob is feeling up good about everyone's kind of feeling good about DAK this year. But it's I think that really the bigger unknown is Kellen Moore. Well that's that. That's the thing.

It's like, how will Kellen Moore react with Next Man Up? You know? Is that fair to Kellen Moore as a play caller to play next man up with Darius Jackson and Pollard and those guys. We've talked to Kellen Moore about this and then offseason. What did he say, like, Yeah, well, we're gonna look at some new things and we'll putting some wrinkles basically and stuff like that, but we're not going to get away from what we do. That's four principles of the Sea. That's what people the core of

this offense see Ezekiel Elliott see. That's where people. I think we've had mail bad questions, and I encourage you guys to always read the mail back stuff because those are good, good questions you guys ask. But the thing about it is we've asked with Zeke. With all new terminology, I don't think it's all new terminology. I don't think this is a brand new offense. It's it's it's a core offense of what we've seen, the thirty seven going off the left end, the thirty eight going off the

right end, with the run plays. There's core principles about this offense. You're right, we're gonna see wrinkles and bunch formations and different things. He's gonna do things different than Scott Linehan, but at the core, it's not a different offense. They're not going to get away from using Ezekiel Elliott, not assuming he's on the you know, no, you know, and really the offense, I don't think you're gonna see radical changes. So the biggest challenge for I think Kellen

Moore is the rhythm of calling plays. He's never had to do it right, never, probably not since I said it the other day high school when his dad let him call his own place senior year, sure, you know, And so that's the key thing. What kind of rhythm? How many times does Jason Garrett have to step in and go, I don't know about that, let's do this right. Yeah, and you know, and he's and he's got help. You know, John Kitten has been in these situations before, a place

called nush Meyer. And you know, when Kitten he you know, he's played quarterback on teams that didn't have Ezekiel Elliott as the running back, so he knows what it's like. So there, and I think Kellen is is open to advice. I don't think he's the type of guy that's like, hey, it's just mic job, get out of here. He's not an independent contractor. This is and they keep saying any he keeps saying, well, it's a collaborative effort, and I

think he will listen. And the head coach promoted him, right, But the head coach has been in the exact same position before. He's been a first time play caller with the Dallas Cowboys at twelve years ago, so he knows the challenges and he's going to be available to help him out. I mean, it's not it's to your point, it's not going to be killing on an island by himself. So we shouldn't worry about then, we shouldn't worry about Kellen Moore the play caller. I want to see it. Well, no, no,

you said it. He needs every everything at the table for him. Yeah, you know, as many pieces as you can. That's a pretty big piece that's not here right now for the starting. I mean, think about it. Walter Payton made whoever's a calling place for the Bears in eighty five a lot easier. Yeah, you know, better than having a hand the ball a time to Matt Suey. Yeah, you know you see in this league, Uh, stay fullback, good player. And the only reason I did that is

Brad shab saw the Chicago Tribune. Uh, they're going through a series of the top one hundred Chicago Bears all time in history. And now when we're talking their history, we're not talking going back to nineteen sixty. We're going back to the thirties. We're going back to the depression. And and Brad was naming some names and I'm going, k that guy's in the thirties or forties because I didn't recognize those names. Yeah, and and and they were only at forty two. They're going down. So who's the

number one? Uh my, guess it's Dick Buckers. And if it's not Dick Buckas, it's Walter Petty unless they go with said Luckman, you used to toss it around pretty good. Yeah, And there was a gip. Billy Wade was like he was he was in the eighties. He was in the eighties, so he was the best quarterbacking Bears history, it's probably said, said Luckman. Yeah, okay, Jack, modern era, in the modern era, Jim McMahon Grossman No, oh okay, Well Mickey ponders or

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you want to use what the pros use? Jack Black is the official men Scarred scare rand of the Dallas Cowboys. Jack Black playmaker for JB faves plus a full size lip bob for just ten bucks with free shimming at getting Jack Black dot com. Used code Cowboys. And by the way, the lady that's in charge of this told me she really appreciates my reads, and you guys should back off. I just know that I get scared whenever

I approach a day having not used Jack Black. And I'll tell you I also get scared every time that Mickey starts reading We're holdings. We're here for a while, we can use the box pack. We're all I got a hook up. She was so good. She got into me the day before we left. Give that address, Mickey, we'll put it on the table here. I like a round table, by the way, I do too. Like this a lot, this a lot. Yeah, it's very conversational. Now do you feel like you should have a little little

cup of coffee here? And oh, I've got We've gotten. This is like breakfast at Wimbledon. I got my breakfast, my fruit plate here. I was not able, by the way, I was not able to eat this prior to the show because I had a little problem. And this is teamwork, Okay, this is teamwork. When you have any team, whether it's a football team or a broadcast team, one player will

pick up another player. And Mickey literally picked me up at the Goodyear Tire Service place down here because my rental car showed that my left rear tire was low on air, and I didn't want to take the chance tonight at nine o'clock when that Goodyear place is closed and I might have a farm that's a response. Then I'd have to have Mickey come out and change the tire form. Come on, I was there ten minutes. It was I was better than uber you are and cheaper too.

And I also I also forgot my my credential, so coming back I thought was going to be problematic. And but he's been around here so long that Mickey didn't even need a credential old he get into the doors, all right. My question, when we were talking about the Cowboys offense, the pass offense, what is the ceiling for this Cowboys pass offense when you look around the league any when you when you see what Patrick Mahomes did last year with fifty touchdown passes his first year as

a starter, five thousand yards passing. He had some of the same elements that the Cowboys have Kareem Hunt for much of the season, Berner and Tyreek Hill. Now he did have the playmaking tight end and Kelsey as well. But uh, and then you look at other teams around the league and what's happening pass offenses in the league, And I think everyone here will say that, Okay, the pass offense, even though the last eight games were much better last year, it can it still needs to elevate. Uh,

what's the ceiling? Did you? Is it the twenty fourteen Cowboys when Tony Romo, I think I through thirty four touchdown passes, it still had you know, a DeMarco Murray who is running for eighteen hundred yards or whatever. Because that element is still gonna be here with this Cowboys offense. So what is the pass offense ceiling for this team? Where has Dak been touchdown wise for three years? About that twenty five range? Last year he was at twenty

two with eight picks. The year before twenty two touchdowns, thirteen picks. In his first year twenty three touchdowns, four picks. So he's been pretty good with that differential, by the way, you Aikman earlier. Yeah, comparing to Aikman's first three years and this, of course, it was a totally different deal as far as pass the passing game back then compared to now, Shock you all, right, touchdowns to interceptions, It's gonna shock everybody. Thirty one touchdown passes his first three

years and forty six interceptions. Yeah, per Aikman and Dak right now is at sixty seven touchdowns and twenty five picks. Can I get that Miami head coach back here? And then maybe that coordinator from Carolina. Those guys did some good things with Yeah, but the coordinator from Carolina didn't showine was not good. Right, But I mean it's a little different story. I know the offensive line wasn't. I just have a lot of respect for Jimmy Johnson. That's why I said that, uh to me, you know, I

I think the additions. You know, we talk about what's back with you know, Travis Frederick being back. I think that helps the offense so much. I think Jason Witten being back helps the offense. You talk about uh, you know, people think, oh, well he's slow, he can't do this case he's yeah, he's not Kelsey, but but still down in the red zone, he's a good player eighteen yards in. I talk about that a bunch. I think that that's

where you'll see some good things from him. But the biggest thing I really I think the health of Randall Cobb could be a huge difference maker here because to me, Randall Cobb plays down the field where Cole Beasley played underneath. It was really good at Yeah, it's it's throwing the ball, he gets it and he gets down. Randall Cobb is a catch it, run, get up the field. If Randall Cobb can stay healthy, and this is the big if about Randall Cobb, if he could stay healthy, then you're

gonna see somebody different in this offer. You're gonna see the ball going down the field. You're gonna see the ball going to Gallup. You're gonna see Amari Cooper catching the slant and taking it like we did last year. But Randall Cobb is the one to me that's going to be the difference maker of some third down players who it's third and seven and all of a sudden, it's if they throw it to him and it's it's

like a twenty one yard game. You know. Those are the things I think you're gonna see different about this this pass offense that in that that we didn't see last year or in previous years with Cole Beasley playing the slot, And I think you will see better production from the tight end position. You're gonna they're not Kelsey, right. You saw what Jarwin's capable of doing. And now he's got some experience. And if you've been watching and Witten, and I know it's skeleton drills, he is running much

better right now than where he left off. Yeah. I was watching him run some routes the other day. He's catching the ball over his head. He's running sharp, crisp routes and and and it's like the year off helped his body. Yeah, and he's kind of you know, I mean, because I thought at the end he was something I don't want. He was uber lumbering. I was gonna say struggling. It wasn't lumbering. He was lumbering. Yeah, and and and you know, and the biggest drop off I thought was

his ability to block. Right. He was getting called for holding well, you know, with he Shoultz out there, and you spot Witten and you put Jarwin out there in a two tight end set, and now who's gonna cover a six five tight end down the field the way that kid can run, right, you know, And then you gotta worry about Whitten underneath. And then you gotta worry about and I'm gonna assume handing the ball to Zeke. So they're gonna have more options and they were the

start of last year. Michael Gallup, Tony Pollard. They're gonna put him out there and have some kind of role for him. I think san Ji Lau told us in the offseason. I mean, there's speed all over the place. They have speed at pretty much every position and that's how that's how you get those The thing they were missing the most, and Amari Cooper helped down the stretch, was those chunk plays. Yeah, chunk players down the field. They didn't have him in the first eight games, just

just didn't have it. Dallup will be the best second receiver that Cowboys have had for Dak Prescott, hands down, easy, like, maybe better than they've had in a number two receiver in quite some time. I was surprised they cut Alan Hearns, though I know, I'm it's kind of going away from what he's talking about, But I was thinking, who is going to be that guy if something happened. I'm with you,

who is going to be? You know? And there's people within the organization that I talked to about Alan Hearns. Everybody loves Alan Hearns, Alan Hearns and and Tavon Austin and Bent Brown the associate athletic trainer. They I know, they didn't take a day off. I mean, we we all, we all, we all even though we weren't a had shows and stuff build, we could still walk into our office look out the window, and every day you saw those three guys out there busting there, you know what

out there. And that's the disappointment because I think that Alan Hearns is actually in better physical shape now than when he like the Dolphins. The Dolphins got a great deal and three million dollars they did, Yeah, okay, but I think they did a great favor to him, and they couldn't cut him when he's injured, right, okay. But the ability for him to stay in the in the Cowboys organization throughout the offseason to rehab and so forth put him in position where now he held go to

the Dolphins and make the team. But I thought all along that they were going to address his contract situation. Yeah, that's what That's what Mickey and Robert talking about earlier. Stephen Jones might be a little bit tougher than you know. I was surprised they picked up his option. Frankly, yeah right, but you're not going to cut an injury, so that would not cut him. But I was surprised because they

had the club option on him. It was a club option, and I thought, okay, because it's a club option, they could do that five million. It's that's a lot. And that's where they did him a favor by keeping him around so that he could he could write and think about is how many how many teams have a A I don't think I'm out of place saying he was the fourth receiver. That's what I was thinking. How many teams have a fourth receiver? Four six million dollars against

the captains. That's That's a point Steven spoke to this day. We spent the first segment talking about how they gonna pay all these guys you have. He said, we have to watch where we allocate our money when we've got this many young players coming up for contracts. It's a curse drafting, well, it is, it really is. It's a good problem to happen when you have a fourth receiver making that much money. I think they would have liked it,

maybe brought him back at a different salary. But see that's he got a nice deal from the Dolphins one year. My focus was if something were to happen to one of the top three, who is going to be the fourth guy that's going to replace? If say, who's going to play the X or who's gonna play the Z. That's why we're here. Yeah, you can move Cobb around,

but what if something happens at Cole? Okay, who's We had a male bad question again about who's going to play the slot, you know, and we went through and it wasn't like just one name. It was like, Okay, they might try you know, Lance Lenore, they might try Austin move in there. Exactly. Yeah. I think this puts a lot of pressure on Tavon Austin to make this team. Yeah, absolutely team. Yeah, and because they can use him in a lot of different ways, but he's got to stay

healthy and they need a punt return or two. And I know Cobb was kind of back there in the offseason, but do you want to use him in that role at this point? It's Cobb, you think, so? I think so. I mean, he's done it. Who else you're gonna put back there? Yeah, Tavon. Yeah, but he's got to make the team. I'm saying, if he makes one make this roster, is the sixth guy? Is that the sixth guy? If they keeps six, I could qualify that because he can

do other things for me. Sure, yeah, he can placeial teams. And if it's not Tavon, it's it's Randall Cobb. Uh and Keith Keith Keith, I heard no. Keith Keith told me that Randall Cobb the second day he was here, came to him and said, coach, I would like to return punts and he said, you don't get that from a nine year veteran ever. Ever, he might be so valuable that Brian Ross getting scared the Brian Broadest chicken theory.

I can't replace the situation. And then you have to have a guy that if I had hearns, Yeah, I go return punts. Yeah I get a catch, I gotta can catch it too. I gotta have a guy that can catch. How many times we watched this team just struggle with fuel position because it's a catch. But that's the that's that's the significance of the punt return because what you don't want to do on punt returns is make a mistake and yeah, right, you know kickoff returns,

all right, kick it over my head. We'll go out to the twenty five, right, and and you know you gotta find somebody to return the kickoffs. But I think Pollard's probably that guy. Right, We need to keep an eye on that. We do when for the punt, As it was explained to me, you you usually don't lose games on kickoffs, but you can lose a game right away on punts. Yeah, that munt coverage or punt returns. You know you don't want one blocked. Uh, and usually

dropped a punt against the Giants? Was it early on in his career? Oh? And then that's what is that the game that Dwayne Harris brought back when it was that the game of Giants stadium stadium? Yeah, and then Dwayne Harris brought one back that won the game. And then the and then the Switzer fumbled punting Rams against the Rams in twenty seventeen, that turned that whole thing around. All right, So what are you look at? What are you looking for today out here in our final minutes

here of talking Cowboys? What are you looking at? Ota practice? Basically with the helmets and the T shirt. You know what I think Brian said it earlier. We're gonna we're gonna get to see how they line up, Yeah, line up like for sure, who's the first? Now they'll probably go by seniority, right, he's running back, so it's Darius

Jackson Jackson the way they were doing it. And he does look bad though, by the way, his two years from being knee surgery, looks a little fresher moving around out there in the other and he's gonna have to really show him because he got those opportunities late and he didn't look like so it'd be sitting good to see that and see how they're stiff. How they're lining up six scary sixteen yards lining up now behind the wide receivers, behind the top three. Yeah, like, wh who's

out there next? Who's in the slot next? And you're missing a couple of defensive linemens still with with DeMarcus Tyrone Crawford and Byron Jones. Just figuring out that defensive line rotation is going to be interesting over this month. A lot of young corners out there too, Yeah, a lot of young corners going to try and battle for spots and stuff. That's what's really cool about see how they use the rookies the draft choices. But I've always

found this my big experience working in this league. Guys cut themselves. You could hot, you know, we could all talk about who we're high to see how and we're all gonna be anxious to look and buy about that week, two week, ten days into practice, about that tenth practice, we're gonna look. Okay, these are the fifty three guys a week day. You said, you said at the very beginning. What a coaches love the most consistency, consistent these young

guys practice. That's what antoine Wood showed for three weeks. Absolutely he didn't really have a bad day. Yeah, and he's proved to him I can handle his job. Yeah. How many times what we're seeing guys cut themselves the fourth preseason game even yeah, well that that who that quarter that one year we were playing they're playing the Ravens. Who's at the quarter that had the team made? It was a the ended I got a wide receiver example, Okay,

go ahead, Andy Jones a few years ago. Yeah, looking great out here and the game started and he took lance or could do that to you too. Unfortunately, he's gonna have to work really hard to shed that label. Yeah, because I think they've seen the same thing we've Oh yeah, and I think two guys once the pads come on that I think I'd be very interested watching is where Travis Frederick is? Is he Travis Fredericks And can Robert

Quinn hold down that right defensive end spot. I like it because if he can, if he and I want to see it in pads right, because we did the jahad Warden dance last year. Right. Hey, Rod warned us back then you gotta see it in pass right and he got out here and he disappeared. I love Robert quick. I know what you're saying. I don't want to go any further. I'm with you, but I think they love Robert Quinn. Yeah, now you gotta see it. How about

Dorn's armstrong too? He I mean, because no Crawford, who's played left end all Ota, every OTA snap at starting at left end, was armstrong. So so the end positions, That's what I'm saying, Taco, Let's see it. Let's see Jalen Jelks, I know you got a nice bend and burst. Okay, now when your pads like, can you do that? You know Carrie Hyder who they say and carry hiders and Christians having today we haven't seen yet time, but we won't see Chris Covington today and they're really disappointed about

that because they thought he was coming on. What happened to him? By the way, I bet he hit one of those divots there, you got all right? We'll be back together tomorrow morning with more divot talk as Mickey will be watching the divots at practice today. And we appreciate you joining us also on periscope. Absolutely, thank you. Talk at you again tomorrow on Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.