Talkin' Cowboys: What's Missing?

So glad you're all with us, and it is a beautiful day, but it's a better day to talk about your Dallas Cowboys, and we're gonna do just that over the next sixty minutes or so. Kyle Yeoman's Heta Harrison, Isaiah stand Back and the Great Rob Phillips joining us as always. And guys, I just about thirty seconds before this open happened, I continue to put my foot in my mouth, which I feel like I've been doing a lot recently in terms of bets that have been made.

And I just lost ten bucks to Heckma. But guys, I at least lived through the half marathon, which is great. But now I gotta take Heckma. The lunch I guess tenago, do it, Kyle and see you you should have learned. You should learn about putting your foot in your mouth. That's just something you're doing in twenty twenty, doll you got you gotta provide a little bit of entertainment. I guess throughout the course set. But as always, we're having

some fun and excited to talk with Isaiah again. And Isaiah, I know you're at least probably out of the four of us here, you're the most qualified to have run maybe a half marathon or done something of the sort. But have you ever done long distance running before or is that something that I need to hit you up about. So one time I ran about three blocks to a pit bull, got losing the neighborhood. That couch, that couch. Yeah, I don't know we got covered or that, But that's

about an extent of my long business running. He hit the three blocks, he was gone. Rob's a big time runner. Though I don't think i've run period in like twenty years because of my man I've got bad feet. I did run the mile back in high school, though, so I could have helped you in like nineteen ninety seven. Now so much you don't want to know how old I was in nineteen ninety seven. Let's just let's throw that out there. But we're gonna keep on moving along,

not talking about running. We're gonna be talking about the Dallas Cowboys, and we're gonna hit up a Layton vander rash and in his health and the update fair. We're gonna talk about the cornerback position and even some of that offense as well, and some of the new look offense on that side of the football. But guys, I kind of wanted to keep some of uh, this is hey, this is uh, this is the point where I try

to jump in and do my best kl of impersonation. Uh, but where we obviously the topic is because we're all board in the house, and in the house board ESPN has and treated us to the Last Dance. And I don't know about you, guys, but it was wonderful for me to be able to take a stroll back down memory lane and see the greatness of Michael Jordan. Rob I'll start with you, what did you think about the series? I think we're all about the same age, and man, it was just a ass from the past for me.

I mean, I was about twelve years old when Jordan was doing his thing. I had. I was a Knicks fan. I had the Knicks starter jacket. Who all that? How did you actually because Derek Harper the MAVs. Yeah, so so bad and he left for New York and actually was on a winning team and that makes sense. I carried my fanom over there. But yeah, it was incredible. It was a nice break for everybody, I think, to

enjoy some type of sports. And it's got people talking about, you know, the NFL, and could the NFL have a storyline that's worthy of a ten hour documentary series? And I think the Dallas Cowboys would have one personally. We did a mail back question on that. I think absolutely there's an one for the Dallas Cowboys who can talk about controversy that Thank god they didn't have social media back then during those days, but man, that would be

awesome just to hear some of those stories. And if you know ESPN or anyone had any any video clips of that team, because those guys were great to talk about. Uh dynasty, But what about for you? I said, just looking over the last dance? Yeah, man, over the last And first of all, I want to address the fact that Rogers admitted that he's a bad Wagon, he's a Bandwagon fan, and he did he did. You know, it takes a man to admit that. So that no question, no, no,

But you know the same here man. I mean, I don't remember how old I was, but I mean I definitely remember watching that. I was definitely a basketball fan. I was Seattle SuperSonics fan. Yeah, yeah, they touched on that episodes. I was at seven and eight h so yeah, obviously Gary Payton and yeah, rain man, I had to bike jump haircut. Also, I had the little restail came. Yeah, so I remember I was getting our birth kicked in the finals of that year. But you know, the city

being on fire. But Jordan was my dude. Man, you couldn't tell me anything before I was a football player. I was a basketball and baseball guy. So um, basketball is my sport man. And Jordan his his mentality, his voracious and his ferociousness, his intensity, determination, you know, he didn't care. I'm I'm I've been touted as a highly competitive individual. I don't know where they came from, but

I may or may not be kind of competitive. So you know, I resonated with him, right, I identified myself with Jordan and just how he carried himself to the game. And it's amazing that they were able to follow him and put that together. Right. I don't know how long I've been sitting on all this, but they did a heck of a job putting it together, and they touched on a lot of points. I think there are some

something that all of us could have taken from that individually. Questions, Oh, yeah, for you know, when I when I looked at the the I was looking at the last dance with my son. As we were talking earlier. I have a thirteen year old son that thinks he's pretty good at sports. And he's one of those these kids that believe that you take an iPhone and you know, run a few routes and add some rap lyrics to the back of and

that makes you great. Right, And so looking at you know, looking at looking at the last dance and just showing him what it takes to be great. Seeing Jordan in those first couple of episodes talk about getting cut in the legendary story about him having to play JV as a sophomore, you know, and just I mean, just the whole story about Michael Jordan what he's had to do the overcoming be as great as he is. I think

it's something of note. And that's why Fortune five hundred companies pay guys like that thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars to come in and talk to that sales team, because everybody wants to tap in to that championship pedigree and what he was able to do in that competitive nature to get to the goat status. And it's a term that is used too often nowadays, greatest of all time. But we all got ten hours to see and bear witness to what Michael Jordan's greatness was

all about. I mean, man, he got up to play anybody. I mean with the one where he's talking about George Carl walked pass him, ignored him, you know, a ball boy, he didn't pass him the ball doing shoot arounds, and so he just took it out on anybody for whatever it was. But it's that it's that killer instinct that I think we all were able to notice and see.

And the refreshing thing about Michael Jordan is that, look, man, he may have been friends with guys off the court and all of that, and I'm not one of those guys as all that, you know, you gotta be mean and all that stuff, But I just felt as though, man, it was that killer instinct that Michael Jordan had that mixed him an international icon. Everybody recognizes that when the game's on the line, there's only one person that you want with the ball in her hand, and that's Michael Jordan.

And so look, how how did we take that, bottle it up and play in our guys? Right? Just hack mother, That's that's kind of the that's the way I want to tie this in with the Dallas Cowboys. You mentioned the killer instinct, Isaiah talked about the competitiveness. You talk about what made Michael Jordan great, and what ended up making those nineties Bulls great. It's a lot of what you want in a team moving forward, even here in

twenty twenty. I mean, you can look thirty years down the road almost and it's still something that you want in your franchise, you want in your team, And it seemed like maybe the twenty nineteen Dallas Cowboys didn't necessarily have that. They didn't have that go to guy, they didn't have that mentality, And you could chalk it up to the championship mentality or the Mamba mentality, it doesn't

matter what you call it. It's the same sort of competitiveness and break back type of work ethic, and it just seemed like maybe the locker room wasn't on the same page. Last year. You had Michael Bennett come in and then immediately had to stand up on a table in a locker room after a loss, and then that just kind of threw things out of lack as well. But Rob, I want to ask you the question of

last year's Dallas Cowboys. Why wasn't it something like that whenever you had the talent, you had something positive in your direction, but you just weren't able to put it together. Well, I think from a leadership standpoint, I mean, you can't. You can't equate what Michael and presented in sports to anything now. It's just it's just not possible. I think. I think from the Cowboys perspective, they had a young leadership group last year, and guys like Jason Winton weren't

his vocal in the past. I think they let some of the younger guys take over there, and I think they're still trying to settle in their roles there. I just think on the field they didn't play. It wasn't so much locker room leadership as they didn't do enough winning things week to week. On the field, they just defensively. I think some of the issues they hadn't were due to trying to make big plays instead of maybe the spectacular over the solid type thing, and they weren't able

to handle certain situations. I mean, Jason Garrett, I know he's not here anymore, but he was right in terms of handling adversity throughout the courses of games, and I don't think they handled that as well as they did a couple of years ago. And that's when you don't do that, that's why you lose a bunch of close games.

And that's to me, that's what happened, more so than than leadership, because I do think a guy like Dak Prescott, if you want to make a comparison to what we watch in that documentary, you're one of your best players is also one of your hardest workers. And I think that was that was Jordan's greatest gift is that he even said in the dock he won't do he won't ask anybody to do anything that he won't do himself, and yeah, I think that's that's very important to do.

And I do think they have leadership on this team. I'll go to big it back off your point where

you made some great points. Man. I think one of the things that I think that nobody was really expecting to gain from this particular series was the management that it required to manage a canon right and Phil Jackson, how he managed grown men and with grown man problems and with different personalities, and how he would do with to still facilitate all that and make it work right and we solve his his his management skills, you know, especially with Rob men right and the issues that the

quote unquote issues that Rob mean for in it right. But he understood Roban, he understood that, you know, what he needed right with each individual. He understood how he needed to let Jordan be Jordan right, but he also knew how to bring everything together. So I think that element was kind of was what could possibly have been overlooked among us all the greatness that Jordan was providing in this series, but you know, managing of men. And I think McCarthy coming in and right, it's gonna be

a big part of that. I think he's he's probably a better manager of men, uh they than Garrett was in the past, right, And I think that we're gonna see that carry out throughout this upcoming season. But playing off of somebody, I know, somebody that I consider and most people get to consider to be the goat of all time football, all time quarterbacks, is Tom Brady. Right.

And the experience that I had been through a TV twelve out in New England, and so as I was watching the last Dance, I was seeing that resemblance, right. I was seeing that ferociousness. I was seeing that tenacity, that that unwillingness to be okay with losing that that drive, that drive that's from within, right, the goal oriented drive. Nothing else matters unless I get the ring. I don't care about a dog on AFC Championship, you know, I

don't care about all the playoff runs. I care about that last result, which is holding up that dog Lombardi Chorltan, Right, and that's all that matter. And I mean there was no different when we looked at Jordan Right. So I saw a lot of resemblances in terms of my particular experience with what we considered to be the goal in football. Yeah, and I say I kind of wanted to pick back off of that really quickly just before we get to hack m up. But Isaiah, how did his mindset and

how did his championship mentality? Talking about Tom Brady, how did that affect you as a player? Man? It helped me elevate my my expectations of my not only myself but my environment. And um, I had came obviously prior to Lunch of New England. I was here in Dallas, right, So we had a ton of great talent, and individually I saw amazing drive within like Jason Witten, you know, individually,

I saw amazing drive within like Tara Horns. So I saw I saw, I saw greatness in the individual platform, but I didn't see it in the sense of, you know, being out spoken and people really follow only those people, right. Um, It's one thing to have somebody great, but it's another thing for that person to be great, hold everybody to that expectation and everybody be be okay following that person. And I think that's what did what the difference was

when I went to New England TV twelve. He had all those intangibles that that with mto had in terms of drive and competitiveness and all the things that we always that we always highlight. However, you got in line, right, you followed TV twelve, right, and he you know the same thing with George. He's not gonna ask you do anything he's not doing, right, He's gonna study harder, he's gonna be there earlier than you. Right, He's gonna hold

himself to a higher standard. Right, He's him and Belichick's gonna call him out right. He had a great manager of men, right, Belichick. So all those things, you see, it's kind of hard to find a great player of history that didn't have a great coach, right, and you know that was kind of leading them along the way. So you know, I think all those things are the things that I identified with TV twelve and my experience, he just he just outworked you, right, and he didn't lose.

I mean, I could tell you before and before Friday practice or after Friday practices, we would go out there. We will have a competition to see who can who can pump the ball within the five yard line, you know, and it was myself, him and Horrior and it was just competitive. It was crazy how it was so simple of the thing just to hey, this is what we do on Fridays. But like I could, I could tell he hated to lose. And I'm like, I like this, dude,

he's just like me. And all I get the impression that that Tom probably is a guy that invents slights, just like Jordan did, just anything to get himself going good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. I mean, it wasn't the what what do they call it, heck, they call up the uh not the billboards, but what do you call it? Whatever, the bulletin board material. Always looking for that, right, and we

end absolutely Coach Belichick leaned on that heavily. I don't know if I'm telling his secrets, but he would we

would waiting for for somebody on. He would wait for somebody in the opposing team to say something, or you know, we're Rex Ryan y. Rex Ryan was always talking, you know, the big rivalry between the Patriots and the Jets, and Rex Ryan would say something crazy and he would post it up and he was like, well, guys, I guess we're not good enough for guys, I guess we're Yeah, and he was and he was just in the meeting like that, right, like well, all right, we're gonna practice

like heck, no, we're not inything like that, right. Yeah, he just always he was the same way. He just sat back and that's why you don't see him talk. He's not gonna give anybody in any bullets board material, right, so he just lets everybody else do the talking. And then he's relying on you to have that internal driver and go out there and bust some money in their mouth. Yeah.

I loved it. And you know the thing that I was, you know, pointing out to my son is that, you know, there are thousands of guys who have played the game of basketball and football, but there are a few that you can see that has that killer Jean Dna, like Michael Jordan has, like Tom Brady has, like all of the greats that have come through the game. And you're right, Isaiah, that's one of the things you don't think about is great coaching, great players, they almost hand the glove, they

come together. When you think about, you know, a killer like Lawrence Taylor, you know, and his and his coach Parcels being his coach. It's just look, I just felt like when when I was watching it and just looking at how you have guys like Michael Jordan play the game and these younger the younger generation taking witness to that. And also, you know, thinking about the Dallas Cowboys, and you're right, Rob Dak Prescott is that guy that you know,

leads by example. He puts it on the line, and he's the guy that even with draft status all of that stuff, that if the game is on the line, you know that Dad can get it done for you. And so I just, you know, I'm hoping that all of our guys, and I'm sure they were well watching the Last Last Dance, but I think it was just something great to witness for everyone that loves sports. Now, my question is is, of course, with Michael Jordan and with the Last Dance and that whole Bulls dynasty, it

took time to get to that point. It wasn't an overnight thing. They didn't watch a documentary like Heckma just said and then all of a sudden half a championship mentality. It took the preparation and took all of the hard work leading up to that point. But my question is is there's got to be supporting cast around it too. It can't just be one guy shouting from the rooftops.

It's got to be a collective group effort. Who else needs to get involved because we've we've thrown Dak's name out there, and he's of course going to be the go to. He's all eyes on him. He's the Cowboys quarterback. Sure, we're not comparing him to Michael Jordan. We're just talking about his mentality and his workout. Yes, however, you're gonna have You're gonna have to have some support group. And

I know you could talk about the offense. But on the defensive side of the football, who do you want to step up? Who is the leader of that defense moving forward? Tank Lawrence? Okay, yeah, take yeah, take Lawrence as a guy, and thank Lawrence is is the guy that you know, comes coming from a small school, uh and making it, you know, to the NFL. But what he's done on this level, I think what he's done, it speaks for itself, you know. And so I see

Tank Lawrence. If you're doing the correlation between Michael Jordan, he's your Dennis Rodman, right, He's your clean up guy. And so there's a lot of role players, as you know, who's your Scottie Pippen. I don't know, but I'm thinking Tank Lawrence particular being one of those role players of

one of those leaders. In conjunction with Dak Prescott, I agree, and I think it's it's a hard comparison to make between the two sports because in basketball, takes one guy, one guy that can really change the course of your entire team with the supporting cast around him. Man Isaiah can speak this better than anybody. This is the ultimate

team sport. And you can have you can have five, you can have ten great players, but if you don't have one to fifty three guys that can step in and fill their roles, that's why we talk about depth so much and trying to withstand that because it's it really takes an entire group over the course of a long season to do it. But to answer your question, Kyle, yeah, I think I think it starts with Tank because he's the senior guy on the defense in terms of the

starting role, every down role. And then after that, you know, a healthy Layton vander esh And and some of the other young guys have to continue to step forward. Yeah. I agree with you guys on that, but one thing I want to point out is that you know it is a totally different right. It's amazing point. In terms of the basketball, you got one guy that's a dog

and he'll you know, take the whole team. But in football, you need, from my experience, you need one person and all three phases of the game to step up and take that take on that role. Right. And usually on offense side of the ball, we always say it needs to be the quarterback. Right on defense, you know, everybody thinks about a guy like ray Lewis, right, and you need somebody who's gonna be that vocal leader in the

middle of the defense, right. And then you need a special team's dog, right, You need a special team's dog. And I can tell you guys like when I played here in Dallas, it was Keith Davis. Keith you know KD was KD was that dude, right he you know everybody else I don't know how many how much the public knew about KD and how much he's talking about when we got in that huddle, you knew KD was that dude, right, And you for Katie, right, And and that's that's a that's a weight that you have to

bear as a leader. Um and as he was a special teams leader right um. And you know, on the offensive side of the ball, it was really like with you know what I mean, for for for for a whole offense right and for our particular receiver group it was TiO obviously, but you always you gotta have those those individuals in those three phases of the game, offense, defensive, special teams that everybody looks to that everybody looks to it because it's gonna get hard. There's gonna be some

holes in the game. There's gonna be some parts that you really got to dig yourself out some holes. And when you when when you're in those positions, you need that one that one staff as individual that you know is not gonna waiver and that you can rely on to get you ready to roll. And that's gonna come through. And that's that's where the Cowboys have to find. I don't think it's just it. It's not all about role players. It's easy to fall in line if you have somebody

that's leading. That's a great point, Isaiah. Really I love that it's easy to fall in line, but you gotta have a leader out there. And I think both sides of the football are gonna need a leader. Tank Lawrence Dak Prescott. Doesn't matter who it is, somebody who's gonna have to step up before that defense. One of the biggest missing pieces to the twenty nineteen squad is returning seemingly in twenty twenty. We're gonna talk about that next when we come back after a quick break here on

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a great deal with America's best network. Come into an AT and T store to find out how to get one of our popular smartphones for zero dollars down based on GWS one course September twenty nineteen, to Talk in Cowboys. It's a segment number two here of talking Cowboys here

on a beautiful Tuesday afternoon. Glad you're with us and hope you're staying safe out there, staying socially distant, says we are in our respective SWBC Mortgage Studios, Rob, Philip tach My Harrison, the Great Isaiah stand back our residence super Bowl champion down in the bottom corner from myself, I'm Kyle Yeomans, and guys, we spent that last segment talking through the last dance and how that relates to

the Dallas Cowboys. Not in the fact of making an extra documentary, because I think ten part series on the nineties Cowboys would. I would be glued to the screen if that were the case. Let's do it. I'm right there with you, Rob, let's get it done. Let's find

a way to do it. But more so in the championship mentality and the mentality that it takes to win titles, not just the title, but titles plural, because that's what Michael Jordan and that entire bull staff had now moving on, but kind of staying similar, there was a big missing piece to this Dallas Cowboys defense in twenty nineteen, and that was Layton Vanderesh, young healthy linebacker going into the season, really looking to take a next step in his second

year with the Cowboys. Instead, it was derailed by a neck injury and a long road back. Let's just say that, a long road back all the way through, and an uncertain one at that. But some news kind of surface this week Patrick Walker from CBS Sports throughout an article. There have been some other articles that have followed up since then. I know Dallas Cowboys dot Com has been on top of it as well. But Rob, what have you heard around Layton Vanderesh and his health and what

he anticipates for the twenty twenty season. Yeah, I've heard he is very much indeed on schedule to be back in twenty twenty. So everything he said in his interview on James Slayer's podcast sounds on point. You know, it's under I'm under the impression that it's my understanding that it took about it's about a four month recovery for the surgery that he had on his neck. And so if you think about January, he's that's about the point

you should be at here in mid May. And now what that means for the off season, I don't think he was ever going to be really active in on field stuff during a normal off season program. I think they were always pointing towards training camp, and we'll see how that schedule turns out. But the signs are pointing in the right direction for him for sure. Now, if he is healthy and he is going back in heck, I'm going to go right to you here. But if he is healthy and he is coming back, what kind

of presence would they be getting back in that defense? Yeah, I believe that Layton vander Ess. You asked the question earlier about him missing I believe it was seven games that he missed last season, and I think that was significant to the defense. I mean, his presence was felt immediately his rookie year, and so it played a large impact.

But let's just keep it real, guys. I mean, Lady Vanderesh's you know, prior to the injury wasn't typical wolf Hunter form, right, there were some things where you could look go back and just look at a few games where it was like, man, he had offensive you know, tackles and guards kind of blocking him to the gatoray buckets. Not that drastic, but still, you know, he was he

was struggling a bit. But now that you know, we get this neck taken care of enough, and I wanted to believe that it was just you know, nerve damage and if you've ever had a stinger, it is horrible, but you typically it subsides after a while, and it's just something that he tried to play through obviously. But when they asked him the question about how he felt

he felt, he said, I feel wonderful. And so anybody that says I feel on the floor, I believe him because, hey, you know, ask me how I feel on any given day. It's I am good, you know, but wonderful. Yeah, you're feeling pretty good. And I look for him to be back and make an impact on this defense because, like I said, his rookie season, man, he was a difference maker out there on the defense. Yeah. Yeah, his his presence is a necessity. Um, there's no question about it.

I mean he's a big kid. I was very skeptical personally, I can admit this. Yeah, they drat when they drafted him that high. I was very skeptical. Um, then I sat back and watched a young young wolf just come out there and be a dog. Oh gosh, yeah, yeah. You know, at that position, a linebacker, there's some grown men coming to block you, right, So you gotta get grow. You're gonna get thrown into the gatorade every every now and then. And those are the things that really progress

you and help you to not experience those things again. Right, I'm gonna get off these blocks. Right, I'm not gonna be I'm not gonna be, you know, the dog on the Talk of the locker room this week. But I mean he's long, right, he's rangy um, he's he's aggressive, of he's efficient right with his tackling. I think he plays plays amazing with those other two guys in there.

Um And and I'm hoping, I really really hope that somebody who's been through a ton of injuries, I really hope that he's able to come back and be that same player, because it's more mental than it is physical a lot of times, and especially coming off a neck injury. And people need to understand at the linebacker position, you lead with your you leave with your head right. So instinctively,

his whole life, he's lead with his head. He's out. Instinctively, he's going to have the urge to want to want to back off, right, or I want to turn to turn my head right now, expose his shoulder right. So I really hope that he's really taking that into account because even though he might say I feel awesome, right,

he hasn't hit nobody right. So if the game changes when you when you take you know, six four, two hundred and you know, forty whatever pounds he is and you run that into a three hundred pound man, the game changes a little bit. That's such an that's such an important point because it is such a high impact position and that's why you need linebacker death just because

guys are in collisions all the time. But yeah, if he when he when he's at his best, he's like a tone setter on defense some of some of the plays he makes. He's such a physical player, and Jalen Smith can be that way. They can they can raise the level of confidence on defense with a biggest and that's what those guys provide when they're at their energy energy. Yeah, yeah, you have both of those guys Smith, and then you also throw in even Sean Lee, Joe Thomas, that whole

linebacking corps. There's a lot of question marks there. There still are, and whenever they're at their best. You can say it for pretty much all of those guys. When they're at their best, they're difference makers on the defense and they always have been. That's what the linebacking position is. But with Layton vander Esh, it seems like when he's healthy, it makes Jalen Smith a better player. It really does.

And it's the same thing back and forth of what Sean Lee did for so many years in his prime with the Cowboys is he made those around him better because he was able to do his job at an elevated surface from everybody else. Now with Layton Vanderesh and Isaiah you brought up the point of you You could talk about it as much as you want. You can say I'm feeling healthy, I'm feeling great, but it's different whenever you get into game action, and especially with a

neck injury. I don't know how much neck injuries you've had to be around throughout your career, but is there anything that sticks out to you in terms of people not necessarily coming back because of that specific area of the body. Man, it's scary. It's as scary as a scary area. You know. I've had two foot surgeries, three shoulder surgeries, a knee surgery, and uh and achilles surgery. I've had everything all around the body, right, but i want no parts of that. I's always say I don't

want knee surgery. To put the neck in number one. Right. One of my guy, one of my one of my teammates that I respected highly, you know, Ricardo Locket, you know, and he you know, he had to shut it down right because I'm a neck injury very scary. Um. You know, we're talking about guys like Peyton Manning. If Peyton Manning didn't play the quarterback position, he would have shut it

down right, you know. So, I mean you talk about, you know, coming back from a neck injury because of everything that everything runs through your spine right, everything to your spine. Every that's that's grand central station. So if you hit somebody wrong, you heard heck talking about a stinger. If you guys don't don't know what a stinger is.

A stingers when you hit somebody in the nerve gets pinched right, So you pitch your nerve right and you lose all sensation, you lose all functionalality, you lose all sensation literally usually in that whole half of your body. So and so that it could have been something as simple as that, right, Um, but it could be it could have been worse. And we don't really know, right, They're not gonna ever tell us what really going down. But I hope that it was something very simple. But

even then, you know, those things come back. It's you know, it takes one right angle of hitting somebody right with the proper amount of force, and you can be shut down again. So as we continue to talk about this depth, right, we have three guys that have a history of injuries, Yeah, we have We have three guys that have history injuries. And trust me, I hate putting the injury label on somebody because I had right, I had it, and you

can't control it. However, as a manager, as a general manager, you need to prepare for the just in case, Right, just in case, these guys have been previous falls to previous injuries. Hopefully that doesn't affect their future, but just in case it does, I need to make sure that we're okay. As an organization in the case that they

do go down. Yeah, I believe that we are, Isaiah, because you know, dealing with the Dallas Cowboys, you get the best and so Laden Vanders has the best doctors looking at this, you know, the this neck, and so if there was any question that he was putting himself in danger by coming back to play, I just feel that it would be the responsibility of the franchise to say, I'm sorry, son, you got to shut it down. Uh, And he would probably go down as the greatest to

never be. You know, Laden Vanders is that kind of game changer as at the linebacker position. But you also talk about the depth cow and you know, and that whole and what you said, Isaiah about the injury label on this group. You know, I Jalen Smith is the one guy to me that I feel this year he's gonna he's gonna be more impactful than people know. And the reason being is because of Nolan and the way that this defense is gonna be geared. It's gonna allow

him to play freely and play in different areas. If you go back and look at the take from last year, guys, our linebackers were getting the business from those offensive linemen, and it was because our defensive linemen were just smaller guys that were having to hurry up and get, you know, through that gap and they were not gobbling up blocks. You look at what we have now with Poe and

McCoy and Gallimore. Look, these are guys that are going to be like pac Man down there on the line, gobbling up those blocks and allowing for Layton, vander esh and Jalen Smith to run to the ball. Now. Look, you know there's been a lot that's been talked about about Jaylen Smith actually changing positions because you know, three

four four three. But either way, I think that he is that guy that could be your Swiss Army knife that could you know, line up outside the tank and rush the passer or you know, blessing up the middle middle. He has that kind of talent. And let me just say this guy, Jaylen Smith. For all of the knocks against Jaylen Smith, this guy came back from an injury

that gets you know, that retires people. And it's a hard one to come back from drop foot, especially plea you talk about a neck injury, have drop foot and play linebacker, okay, And he's come back from that. Not only has he come back from that, he has come back from that and has made Pro Bowls and so and I'm gonna jump out the cake when I say this. I know it, guys, but to me, there's no way that we were supposed to get Jaylen Smith if it were not for that Ohio State lineman pushing him in

the back. All right, we would never have gotten that guy in the second round because he would have been one of the top fifteen linebacker taking the draft. And if you look at who he was at Notre Dame prior to that injury, he was the equivalent of Isaiah Simmons before Isaiah Simmons, because of his height, because of his range. I mean, he's fast enough to play out in pass coverage, out in the flat against tight ends, running backs, and slot receivers. He has that kind of ability.

And but just now with the whole changing up the guard with a new defense coordinator, I just look for Jalen Smith to be that guy to you know, to take that learned curve and definitely be somebody that you know that definitely has more makes more plays and does a much better child this year and this new defense versus where he was last year. Now, heck, I want to I want to be a little bit of a devil's advocate here because earlier in that you talked about

Jalen Smith and you said two things. He could rush the passer, he can blitz up the middle. There's two things that he does the same thing in that regard. It's run forward. That's his biggest that's his best thing is he runs forward. He goes downhill. He's a downhill player. He always has been. I don't necessarily think he can cover the slot or even some of those faster tight ends as well as maybe a number one linebacker should However, like you said, you talked about position change and whether

it's four three to three four. If he's playing downhill and Mike Nolan makes him play downhill, I think he's going to be successful. You can pair that with the defensive tackles. I agree with that point completely. I always defensive tackles. You're gonna take a huge load off of those shoulders. Yeah, and I was talking about prior to the injury, prior to getting injured in college, and so yeah, it's changed his game a lot, and he has to

be a cerebral player. Because he's playing with a debilitation, basically knowing that he had dropped foot. And I know we've I've talked with Chris Beam about this and just his whole comeback, and Chris documented it. He's healed from it, but it has to be something that's in the back of his mind. Just like you know Isaiah alluded to

about playing with the neck injury. You know, hey, it's all good, he's just hitting the pad, but it's completely different when you're running into a three hundred pound man. Now watch this, watch this. Heck man, I'm gonna tie this right back around in Isaiah, I'm gonna come to you first. Here you talk about the psychological side of it and how there is a psychological aspect of these injuries. Yes,

they're physical. Yes, the surgeries are something that is tactical. However, in your mind you always have that in the back of it. You always know that you've had these injuries, you've been tagged at the injury. But what kind of impact does that have on a player? And specifically in this case Laton Vandersh Isaiah, who I mean, for me, it made me a better person? Um, it took me a long time to get over my foot injury, right, So you got to talk about the drop foot. Right.

It took me twelve months really to get back from my foot injury. Right when I blew my foot out, I had had a total list Frank tore everybody out. No thanks, Yes, So I got I got drafted with that. So when I that's that's what I saw. That's why I respect Thank you, Jerry, I appreciation. Uh, but it does. It plays a huge part on you. Even once I got past that, I sustained multiple shoulder injuries to the same shoulder, all right, and it and it changed me. I hate that, I have to admit that. But it

did change how aggressive I was. It changed the things that I would typically do prior to those injuries because I was always conscious of it. I didn't want to expose it, right, I didn't want to make myself vulnerable to potentially reinjuring it again. So it does, you know, and again we don't know how how serious of an injury. You know, you know, Vanderdesh's neck was, but hopefully it's something that he could just write off once he comes out.

Once training camp gets kicked off and he goes out there, it hits his first dude, and boom, I don't feel nothing. Okay, he's confident again. Um, and I hope it's just as simple as that. But if you've ever reinjured something, and trust me, it plays, it plays with your mind. Um, it definitely plays with your mind. But you know, and one of the things I wanted to touch on was, you know, you made a great point, heck about what we've done here in the off season in terms of

our fronts, our front seven. You guys can always hear me talking about how important of a role it is for Paul McCoy and all those guys that we've acquired and what they're going to allow our second level to do, and for people out there that are listening, If you guys don't understand how important that is, these guys when you're talking about those guys gobbling up office alignment, these guys are in the office alignment are not going to be allowed right because they're not gonna be freed up

to work up and have to and and force our linebackers to take them on, right, so we don't have to worry about Jayala Smith and Sean Lee and Vander has taken as much punishment as they did last year, because these guys are gonna be gobbled up, so they are gonna be able to roam free. And to Rob's point, in terms of coverage, Rob, let's keep it real. There

are these these tight ends that are playing nowadays. No linebackers can cover them, right, you know they can't, right, So you're gonna rely heavily on your safeties, right, And I think we're gonna be a too high safety heavy team anyways, because of our because of what our front set was gonna allow for us to play. So it was really gonna be on you know, on our on our guys in the secondary and you know, Cheeto and Haha and those guys like that to be able to

come down and play man to man. Yeah, play more nickel dime in those situations. And but when they they have struggled on defense the last couple of years, it's been stopping the run. To you guys point, I mean you go back to like the twenty eighteen game when they went up to India and just got smacked. You know, they their linemen were on the second level so quickly, and that's that's I think that's what you guys are talking about. Um as far as Vanderesh, just one more

point on that. I will say to Heck's point, he's in really good hands with the athletic training staff doctors here, and I think I think he's a guy he really wanted to keep playing last year and I think he loves football so much. I think that that will help with the psychological part of it, just being able to get back. And there are guys, and I won't say this is the exact same injury, but there have been guys in Team Mystery that have come back from next surgery.

Daryl Johnson guys like that, So there are there's a history and a familiarity with the organization in doing it. So obviously that's the hope. And I think the Cowboys feel good about it. They definitely need him back, there's no question about that. Hey, shout out to our training staff with the Cowboys. I probably know way too much about those guys, Jim and Ritt Brown and U doctor Cooper and those guys. I can tell you guys haven't been through some of the greatest organizations in this league.

That that group right there is second to none as second tone. So for all you guys that may have question marks. Okay, so did they make the right decision? Those guys right there on top of their game. Yeah, and that's huge. It's huge to be able to have that at your disposal. But you've also got to come back and execute and be on time and things like that of being with these timelines whenever it comes to this injuries and hopefully Layton Vanders is back. I went

back yesterday. I'm going to go through all sixteen games again from twenty nineteen and I went back through Week one yesterday, and man, when all those linebackers are firing on all cylinders, it is fun to watch. And they did so against the Giants last year, and I thought it was just it made me kind of sad because it was one of those Wow, this is a lot of fun to watch. But man, you knew what was coming with the injuries and some of the question marks

later on down the line. Now, when we come back, we're gonna do some more talking x's and oh's. I've got two really big questions that I want to answered about this upcoming season and different roles that are going to be played on the offensive side of the football. We'll talk about that next. When we were return here on Talking Cowboys since eighteen sixty five. Stetson hats are American maid with pride right here in Texas, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team.

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is a rich, delicious doctor Pepper paradise. Wait, did did that can of doctor Pepper just open itself for you? They all are as if to say, so nice to treat you. And even though it feels weird to talk to we, can you pick one up and say, it's so nice to be treated doctor Pepper, so nice to treat you? To talk in Cowboys, One last segment here of talking cowboys here on Dallas Cowboys dot com. So

glad you're with us. Kyle Yomen's Rob Phillips, heck my Harrison the Great Isaiah stand back and It's time now to talk some x's and ohs, and we did this last week our first installment of a new segment, and then specifically around what's happening on the football field and take away all the offseason Garb that's around this Cowboys team and the storylines that have been around. We'll talk about that plitty in the first two segments. Guys, we

want to talk about football here. That's what this is about. This is what this is about the gridiron. And first question is what will Zeke's role be? Now? Last week we talked about Tony Pollard and what his potential role could be as a wide receiver more so than a

running back. We talked about that in extent, but I want to talk about Ezekiel Elliott because of kind of the added talent around the passing game Ceedee Lamb of course out of the draft, and you've got Blake Jarwin, who's seemingly tight end one that should add some extra targets from Dak Prescott then he even got last year. But how are you going to find a way to get Ezekiel Elliot at the ball? WHEREBB will start with you, Well, I think with the weapons they've added in the passing game.

As you said, I think they have the makings of a true pick your poison offense where they can literally take what the defense gives him. There's that much talent at the skilled positions. But I do not worry about Zeke having a big role on this team. And really the only thing I've got to do is go back to early in Mike McCarthy's career pre Packers. Okay, I know he was the head coach there for a long time, and I know he was part of what you could say was a pass happy offense with Aaron Rodgers. Now

that makes sense logically with Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, he was in New Orleans in early two thousands as the Saints offensive coordinator Ricky Williams. They remember the coup the Saints trade in their entire draft to get Ricky Williams. That

would probably ever happened again. But there were a couple of seasons in there where Ricky Williams had like three hundred plus carries, yes, and was was the offense for them, And I think that shows Mike McCarthy is willing to use what he has from a personnel standpoint, and for that reason, I fully expect Zeke to be, you know, have a big role as usual on his offense. He go ahead, I Saiah, oh you know, throw it to go throw the hackm over. I got it. I got it,

all right. So so I mean, guys, I mean you ask that question, and I'm like everybody else. I've been board in the house and in the house board. So I've been on NFL game pass watching old you know I have, you know I have, and it's just crazy, you know, watching Ezekiel Elliott and man, he's just just a generational running back and you know this, what his role is going to be in this offense is a dog. You know, He's he's going to be the pace set

for for us. And what this offense does. You saw last year where teams were still willing to play with extra dvs even when the Cowboys came out and run personnel. We have got to punish teams for doing that. And so with the whole pick your poison mantra that we have going here in Dallas now with Ceedee Lamb, that's the one thing that I believe that if teams play us like that, we have got to give them a

healthy dose of Ezekiel Eli. And you look at those games that you look at the season and like say, for instance, games like against Baltimore. All right, we're in Baltimore in December. We don't know what that's gonna be like as far as the weather, as far as the conditions. But I see Ezekieli getting thirty carries in that game. That's the Ezekieli game. Because what that does is it

keeps Lamar Jackson sipping gatorade. You know. So those are the kind of things that I believe that Mike McCarthy is. He's going to be a difference maker in that. And just going over all those you know, old games for for the Dallas Cowboys, he was to play calling. It was getting Ezekiel Elliott and rhythm. We ran a lot on first downs, but then after that, you know, because we were behind them the stakes, we'd have to throw

the ball to get a first down. And so I just look for that, you know, I look for Zeke to be a big part of what we're doing this year. Yeah, hey, gan Ud like, freaky Zeki's gonna be freaky Zeki. Right, there's no there's no change here. He just added more weapons, right, it doesn't even matter if they take the ball out of his hands a little bit more, he's still gonna get the same production. He just he's that dude. We

know he's that dude. I think that more than anything, he needs to be able to provide that consistency, and he needs to be able to provide the energy. I really don't see anybody else really providing energy on the offensive side of the ball, and momentum such an intricate part of this game. You're gonna be able to get those seven yards, there's two of yard runs, and he needs to be able to get up and do this right because everybody feeds off that right. There's there's nobody

Cooper ain't gonna do it right. And so Cooper gonna have a hundred yard run, he's still gonna be right. So you mean you need somebody with that energy for everybody to feed off of. And actually we're going out managing everything. You need Ze just to be consistent. When we give him a ball, we know we're gonna get positive yardage and he's gonna be gonna be that energy

bus for everything else that we're doing on offense. Do you think the energy could come from him in the receiving game as well, because last year, I mean he had fifty four receptions sixty eight targets, both of which were some of the tops of his career. But do you think he could bring that energy in the receiving game as well out of the backfield or is it strictly pound the rock, be the belt call and eat

up some yards. When you can more screens, more scores, screens, more screens to Zee, good things happen when Zeke gets the ball on the screen game. Rob is adamant about that. Let's go more screens to Zee. I mean, damn, every time he gets one, it's still it's like a seventy yard touchdown to seem you know, but against the Lions maybe, yeah, true, true, I mean quietly, I think he had a season where he had seventy five seventy six catches. He has that

in his his arsenal for sure. Yeah, that's you say it. Man. Those screenplays when and especially with the kind of speed that we have on the outside, running everybody off and then just sneaking Zeke underneath is something that you see the Cowboys doing it. And again that's just something he has in his arsenal. He's a great receiver out of the backfield, so we have to use every talent, everything that he has. Yeah, there's not gonna be any shortage.

He doesn't matter how he gets the ball. It doesn't matter how anybody the vocus gets the ball. You know, like you guys talking about we we have the jack of all chase to the Swiss army knife as we refer to of offenses. So it doesn't matter how they you know, they decided on getting everybody in the rock as long as people are getting positive yardage and you know, and we're rolling this thing and we're able to strike fast when needed, we're able to withstand drives when needed,

depending on who who our opponent is. Um, we I think we have everything we need to really control that, right m If we're playing, if we're playing in Baltimore and Lamar and those guys are gonna be striking. Fact, guess what we need to be able to hit him when we need to hit him, if we if we need to keep somebody like that off the field, and guess what, y receivers, block your butts off and let's hand this thing off, right so we can do whatever

we want to do. I'm interested to see what we don't do right more so than what we are going to do, because there's because you have so many options. You do have a ton of options, and that's kind of the fun part about it, and that's what makes people so excited about this offense. Moving forward. Now, I want to put you guys in Kellen Moore's shoes, which at this point looks like it's a fun place to be because you've got a new coaching staff around you and you've got a bunch of new talents. But I

want to talk about the receiving position. And you could argue, because of how talented this receiving corps is, you don't necessarily even need Ezekiel Elliott to bring the energy in the passing game because you have enough energy in what Dak Prescott in these receivers and even Lake jarwinet tied End could bring to the table. But I want to ask, who would you put in the slot? And the question is, because whenever Cede Lamb was drafted, it was almost automatic.

Let's throw CD Lamb into the slot. But I I want to play Devil's advocate with that point a little bit, just based off of the fact that college, or at least in twenty nineteen, Cede Lamb had twenty five slot receptions, which is tied for one hundred and fortieth in the draft class. Then you turn around and you have slot yards. He was successful in the slot six hundred plus yards

as a slot receiver, which was forty six. So you still have a kind of a at least a disconnect in that regard of CD Lamb being in the slot. But who would you put in the slot? And heckmo we'll start with you, man, Michael Gallup is open right now. I'm telling you, man, this is let's keep it real to me. Man. If I'm if I'm playing Kelly Moore, I come into this room of a talented group of wide receivers and I know that these guys are all

chumping at the bit to contribute. You. You draft Cede Lamb and you know he's a number one receiver, So in essence, you have two number one receivers in Lamb and Cooper, and you have to treat him as such. If I'm Michael Gallup, I don't care where you put me. You put me in the slot, I'm gonna man handle a strong safety. There's no way, and if you look at our team right now, you would be it would be the equivalent of having Xavier Woods on Michael Gallup

in the slot. I think that's advantaged Michael Gallop and you know, shout out to Xavier Woods. But I'm just saying, you know, you talk about the talent level of a Michael Gallup, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. But at the same time, I believe that it's going to be the translation that we're gonna have form from Mike McCarthy to this offense and getting these guys in rhythm. It's what's gonna be important. But man, that's that's a

tough question. But I really feel like it doesn't matter which guy goes to the slot. But if I'm Michael Gallup, I want to go to the be the slot receiver. Yeah. It reminds me of my time when I was underneath Billy O'Brien and you know, I was out there with myself, Joey Galloway, West, Wealcare, Randy Moss. It really didn't matter who was were, and you had to learn everything right and that that freedom as a for an offensive coordinator

is absolutely everything because now everything's on the table. I can call whatever formation I want to. I can mess around with with with defenses. I could run some motions. I could run motions to put guys and positions that they weren't necessarily in when we lined up, UM to create different matchups. So there's all kinds of different things that you could do to trick around and mess around with your defense. But um, in terms of just the stakehol if we're going three wide, receiver said, I I

agree with my guy ahead. I think that you put CD on the outside where he's comfortable, where he's comfortable UM coming into this league, and you allow Gallop with his speed if Hopelly, I'm mentioned to see how shifty is in terms of lattermomillion. You know, we get off the ball from it inside the slot, but at which one of those. That's one thing that you want from a slot, somebod who's shifting, who can get get open immediately. And then you also want somebody who can get on

the safety's tolls as fast as possible. And I think that's what that's what gallup really presents. From that position, and like and like we already attested to, you're gonna be facing either their third best corner right, you're gonna be facing their safety. So his ability to just blaze on why anybody can get on the toes of the safety, especially as a single high safety right is going to cause some problems because those outside guys cool and UH and CD will be able to eat all day long. Man,

you guys really hit on it. I mean, Mike McCarthy one reason why he loved this pick so much was it adds to a stable receivers that he thinks can play every position, play inside out, that's what that's what he does, is what he did with his receivers in Green Bay. And so yeah, I think I think you're gonna see all of him kind of move around. I like cd skill set for the slot personally, but you guys are write about Gallup and and Amari Cooper is a guy that can go inside and be effected playing

the slot. He's done it here and it also is a way to get him away from double coverage at times too. So I think you're gonna see Amri in there at I think you see may see all of him move around, because that's what McCarthy likes to do.

Seeing I was a little surprised that you didn't say Cooper and go ahead, heckma, no, I think what Rob's what the point that Rob makes about Coverage being rolled to Almara Cooper and actually putting him in the slot, that's a ton of offenses do that with their you know number one guy, put him in the slot, move them around. That was one of the arguments about Davis Bryant back in the day is it's getting him from the outside and moving him around in this offense to

give him more exposure in the offense. And so again, I you know just what Rob was saying. I think that is the biggest point is that you take your lead dog and you look at any advantages that you have against defenses, and you put him in there. All three of these guys are gonna be interchangeable. And do you see a lot of motion and you see a lot of trickery and things like that. Isaiah, I know you mentioned it just switching things around and opening up

the playbook. I think the playbooks as opens as it ever has been for a guy like Kellen Moore to kind of do some of those gimmicky things before pre snap that can set you yourself up for success. Yeah. Absolutely, And I was a saying too. You know when I was with Billy Oh, and we had all those receivers, right, we had a ridiculous amount of receivers, right, everybody. As long as everybody's smart enough to learn all the formations and smart enough to learn all the different personnel groupings.

You give that officer a coordinator pretty much a blank sheet, and he can do whateverything he wants to, and you can. You can you can line up in those just basic formations, or guess what I can line up with? You know, CD outside and I guess, okay, we're coming on CDs outside, you know, coops on the outside and gallops in the slot. All of a sudden, I motioned CD down and we're doing a switch release, and all of a sudden, gallops going outside and CD's working in on the inside of

the linebacker. So you could do whatever the heck you want to, and motion is going to be a huge part of it, not only just because of declaration of coverages, but also for the standpoint of just matchups you can create. If you have a smart offers, a coordinator, you have VERSUSIL players, you can create the matchups that you want and when you're able to do that, you can't be stopped.

It's gonna be interesting because, like the point is is, you could throw Cooper in the slot, you could throw Gallop in the slot, you could throw CD Lamb in the slot, and all three should be successful enough to be able to to have some some impact. By some impact, I mean quite a bit of impact for Dak Prescott and what he's able to do come this season. And we're running out of time here, guys, but just real

quickly looking ahead a little bit now. The next week on Talking Cowboys, we're gonna talk about the right defensive end spot, and there's gonna be a couple of those names thrown in there, like an Alden Smith, like a Randy Gregory, two guys that are looking to be reinstated. But you're also going to look at that Bradley and I pick from the twenty twenty draft class and what that actually means for that right defensive end spot is just real fast, rapid fire. Before we close things out,

is this defense better this year than last year? On paper? Yes or no? Before we get into next week's conversation and debate, absolutely, wow, you think so? Yeah? What you say, Rob if those guys are reinstated, I say yes, and obviously they're optimistic about that. You still got to sort out the cornerback spot. Man. We tried to rank all those guys last week on the website. Who'd you have it? One? Rob? Who'd you have it one? Rob? We had? We had

Jordan Lewis one. Actually, Wow, Jordan Lewis at one now, which is which is a little strange, right because he's not Wow, He's not six five playing quarterball. But they've got to sort that part out. But I think the front seven, yes, they got they got a chance to be better and make the defense better that way. I agree with you, guys. We're gonna talk about that cornerback spot and the ranks that did come out in terms

of that position next week as well. So there's gonna be a lot of defensive talk next week, while we talked a lot of offense this week. But that is gonna do it here for talking cowboys here on this Tuesday morning. Glad you've been with us throughout the entirety of the last hour. But for Heck Harrison, for Isaiah Standback, and for the great Rob Phillips. I'm Kyle Yeoman saying so long, We'll see you next week here on Talking Cowboys.

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