I just want to say this, there is no substitute for winning. I know that's a cliche, but we must win. We will win. When is the name of the game. The following He's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is he is Talking Cowboys, screening live from the Dallas Cowboys World headquarters at the Star in Frisco. To the goal line. Got tit? No, Your hosts, Micky Spagnola, Robbed Phillips, Everson Walls, and Bill Jones.
And there you had it right off the top, thirty one years ago today, Jerry Jones taking over the Dallas Cowboys February twenty fifth, nineteen eighty nine, and this is Talking Cowboys inside the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Bill Jones, would Mike you, Spagnola, heck Ma Harrison and Everson Walls? Everson, what did you think on that day thirty one years ago today? At that time, I was happy when he first went down. I thought this was the best thing
that ever happened. He made me a captain as the first the first organization that ever made me a captain in my entire life, going back to Peewee League High school and nothing, and when they made me captain like Davin, this is what I've been waiting on. I'm having some walls. I'm from Dallas, Texas. I deserved this. Where were you on this day when the announcement was made? I really couldn't tell you, but I can tell you what I
was the night before. I was hanging out with Jerry and and uh the organization, Jerry and Missus Jones, me and my wife. Yeah we we Foozies. You have Foozies. You have a member Foosies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's where we hung out. That's where we hung out. I thought, man, me and Jerry were gonna be big buds, great friends, like I'm a company man. Now I don't even know what to how to acts. That didn't last long at all. But we'll get into more of our memories coming up
in just a little bit. What exactly um our memories of twenty five or thirty one years ago today February twenty fifth, nineteen eighty nine. And uh, but there's a lot of sorts of other things going on right now too, including Cris Beam talking in my ear incessantly. And hopefully that was just very quickly. I thought, I'm not getting I'm not getting paid enough to have all this in my ear. What's going on? You thought the XFL you got someone talking in your hell, but the whole thing
all the way, that's what you do. Take your head. But there's so much to talk about because the combine is underway, and we'll break it down this way. About this, we'll talk because Steven talked yesterday. We're gonna hear it from Stephen coming up here. Um talked about the DAK contract, all the things going on at the combine right now. I think this is a great time of the year because this is basically kicks off the offseason. I mean this is you know, the agents are also in Indianapolis.
Some work can get done. You got a CBA that needs to get done. If the Cowboys are going to do the business they want to get done. And Um, so we'll talk about that what the Cowboys need to do as far as the contracts go and the CBA, and we'll talk combo. They need to actually start talking. It's exactly right. And we will talk as well about our memories from thirty one years ago. But it's also Fat Tuesday, So I got my purple on. Yeah, Hey, I got my baby from my kincake all the way in.
I just had my baby in the you know what. They were kind of lazy. His feet were like hanging out. It were lazy to making it me and my daughter was like, oh, that's the baby right there. But it was good. No suspense, no suspension. Well, I've already cheated on my diet today. So Fat Tuesday, rock Ada bought in donuts so I had to have of course, of course, I think it's a National pancake Day. That was just my my my Internet told me to do well, Good
Morning America had pancakes for everybody. It would make sense. On Fat Tuesday, he sat, weeks get a staff. I've not had any today. No, no, no, I won't have any today. Well, Margaret, eitherday? That was what? Yes, how drunk did you get? Bill? That's why my wife was drinking so many of our garators on Friday. All right, Stephen Jones talks yesterday, and you know this whole CBA thing, it sounds like for the cowboys to do the business they want to get done with Dak Prescott and his
agent Todd France. They need to get this CBA done. Mickey, they need it done, but if it gets done, then they're gonna lose the transition tag also, so there's some ramifications for getting it done and not getting it done. Um also, but if it gets done, it might wipe out the thirty percent rule going into the last year of the official CBA that's in place. And that's what Stephen alluded to yesterday, because, um, you can't mess with the base salaries. They can't go up or down by
more than thirty percent from year to year. So normally when they do these big contracts, they'll they'll tell the player, well, you just got twenty million in a signing bonus, let's say, and so your base salary this year is only going to be one million dollars and that'll help us on the cap. But if it's only one million dollars this year, then it can only go up thirty percent the next year. So I think that does that mean it's three million
dollars whatever? So yeah, because because because you can't say, okay, now you get eleven million in twenty twenty one. So it's pretty complicated and it cannot bload the contract the exactly, and a lot of those contracts were always backloaded, right, those last years they had money that wasn't guaranteed to count in the big total. So somebody can say, oh, I got one hundred and thirty five million dollars deal when the guarantees only one hundred and there's thirty five
million on the back end. That's bogus. And that also helps the teams with the cap as well. Right, they can kind of play with that exactly. And Mickey, this is a ten year deal, correct, It would be a ten year deal. That's what they're looking at. And one of the reasons why the NFL wants to get it done and maybe why the players think they have a
little leverages. If they get it done for ten years, they can start negotiating a TV contract right away and promise the networks, hey, we've got ten years of a collective bargain agreement, so we're not in jeopardy of any strike or anything like that. And the players and allows them to ask for more money, and especially if you get a seventeenth game, right because now you've got more revenue coming in, you've got more product to give them. So there's a lot of things. But the players don't
get paid per game. They would get paid one. That would turn it to one. That's one of the sticking points, right Perhaps because they're staying seventeenth game, they're they're maxing it as is the current agreement is put together, it max out at two hundred and fifty for that last game, two hundred and fifty thousand for the last game, So you would get played one seventeenth for the first seventeen weeks,
and then that last week everybody gets to it. That's for existing contracts, okay, Yeah, for for players who would be under contract when that would take effect, which at the earliest would be not twenty twenty but twenty twenty one. So the player reps, I think there are The executive committee on the NFLPA with the players will meet with the owners today. It must happened later this afternoon. When they voted initially it was six to five not to
agree to it. And so there's a lot of questions, Yeah, a lot of questions that the owners are going to have to answer and strictly majority, you don't have to have a If they know that the yeah, and then if they agree, then they'll give it to the players.
The entire played a recommended to a vote for the players. Now, there are a lot of there are a lot of sticking points in this CBA that the players have to pay attention to because it is a ten year deal and a lot of the guys that's even negotiating the deal won't even be a part maybe won't be a part of the NFL. So for all of those points when I was I was reading today that the point or the percentages five five billion dollars and the half is two point five billion dollars. So there are a
lot of things at staking. The one thing that I keep seeing through the media as far as the seventeenth game, but also you know, the drug testing part of it. I think that's a major part that a lot of the players have been interested in. But there's way more.
I think there's way more to the CBA than just the you know, being drug tested two weeks before OTAs or before the season that these guys have to pay, you know, play, pay attention to because there's so much hanging in the balance for them as opposed to like when you were in the in the league in eighty two when there was a strike, you know that you have the mom mom but the revenue, but as far as the revenue, as far as the revenue UH, and
the and the network, as far as the sharing. Now in comparison, we're talking about billions of dollars now to the sharing the percentage we were I don't think we were sharing in eighty two. There was nothing about sharing. We were bringing it up, but it had not even come into fruition. I don't believe until eighty seven is when we really started talking about having the real It was the reality that we could profit sharing some way. You know. Hack brought up the drug policy and it
significantly changes for marijuana. I was going to ask you if if it had any tolerance this time, if it go up to the time. Yeah. The proposal says it'll narrow the testing window of THHC from four months to two weeks at the start of training camp. So even if you're you're to rather than at the start of the offseason. Price exact. So that tells you when it is so I watch test serious. Unless you got a
serious problem, you ought to be able to quit. We always knew when it was right, and now it's only a two week wind. It also reduces the penalties to players who test positive for THHC eliminating any game suspension for strictly for positive tests. Well, and that the question is, Mickey, what the players be willing to leverage as much as they have on the table right now just for drug testing. I mean because even for yes, as far as the insurance is concerned, as far as you know, guys having
insurance coverage after they're playing days. I mean, if that's the case, think about it this way. Okay, the veteran players are thinking like you. The guys that are one, two, three years in the league that think they're playing for another five ain't worried about that stuff because they're not. They're not forward thinking. Yeah, they're thinking about, Okay, if I'm smoking marijuana today, I can play in a month or I'm not going to get punished games. So they're
thinking about themselves. The other thing, it also increases the nanogram limit. So it's the I tried to read up as much as I could. It's the it's the level. Uh, you're not going to be tested. It's the player. Well, I want to know what they were doing. Because the nanogram level limit went from thirty five think about this, thirty five to one fifty. Yeah, and that's per mill
leader of blood in your body. Okay, so that's a huge And what I was reading is fifty is usually kind of the cutoff from a driving standpoint to see if you're intoxicated or not. So now it's one hundred and fifty for the league for you to test positive. So there's a lot of towers. And I always thought
that would be one of the number one sticking points. Wow. Well, when you negotiation evolution about thinking, you know, mat wine has always been where it is, but you know, we've just we were thinking about it differently now with a lot more tolerance and regards to not just society, but
in regards to medicine. You know, so now when you're talking about opioids versus a CBD, I thought it'd be even more tolerance and even put something in there to where they might even use it in regards to pain tolerance, and that obviously is not in there at all. Yeah, like I said, when I looked at it, and they made it about you know, smoking marijuana and just looking at the players what they have to lose if they
make a bad deal. I mean, I guess my parents always said youth has wasted on the young, and this would be a bad decision to leverage that much just to be able to smoke pot in the offseason. They have to be forward thinking about this because they have so much to lose. And as far as the guys that played the game before them that had to deal with those stipulations, I know a lot of societal issues and dealing with the optics is a big part of
what the NFL is into. But also just thinking about those guys that have played the game that need coverage now when they look back over their careers, that that's important. And I don't know if they are talking about anything for guys, let's say pre nineties guys that actually made
the game what it is. And so to the average fan that's having to work a job to get drug tested, they don't understand a guy that would give up that much just to because again, when you look at the CBA and the amount of money that guys would be turning down or getting that, your average working Joe doesn't understand why a guy would turn down the contract based off of those numbers, because hey, for me myself, I shake a coconut out a tree for a million dollars,
you know, I mean literally see me shaking the tree. You really, you really can't look at what you know, the average working Joel is doing. Don't don't compare football players to that. That's always been the mistake. Okay, you keep talking about not just you, but fans have always said, well, I can't believe they're trying to make this much money. They said they when we were playing, that's always gonna be were making how much in nineteen eighty three three
I made thirty seven fire you go, yeah, yeah. For the proposal for the former players, retroactive would increase five hundred and fifty dollars a month for all pre twenty twelve vested players, so whatever they're getting, it would raise, okay, okay. And then it would also expand pension bill eligibility to all former players with three credited seasons. I don't know what it used to. It has always been three? Has
it always been three? Okay? Uh? And creation of a new network of hospitals in each team city for former players to receive no cost physicals, preventive care, mental health consoling, and outpatient orthopedic servi services coverage UH common to surgeries to be phased in during the course of the deal. So that's wonderful. That's kind of an increase for the
former players. So yeah, it's it's pretty comprehensive, and there's a lot to think about other than just uh increasing the minimum wage by one hundred thousand dollars and the minimum for the rookies ninety thousand. So and again, if they if the biggest one might be the share, right it's forty seven percent right now, and now it would go up to as much as forty eight five. Yeah, so if they sell more for games that are going to be played a seventeenth game, then that's going to
go up too. So we'll see what they decide today and if there's a vote, and this thing, you know, could be decided by Thursday. All right, how about Dak Prescott And let's hear from Stephen Jones and what he was saying about Dak Prescott with the possibility of a franchise tag looming over the heads of everybody, franchise tag, is it accured to say it would be the exclusive variety? You know, I'm not going to get into any of the details of the contract and franchising and that type
of thing. Our goal is to get it done with Dak, and I know he wants to be here and we want him to be here long term, and you know, he's our guy. You know, we've got nothing but the highest regards for him, and we want to get the deal done. And Stephen Jones said that he was surprised they didn't get a deal done back in September and they haven't had talks since September. Yeah, he was. It was just kind of like, uh, you know one of
my ex girlfriends. I mean, you know, she didn't call me, I didn't call her, and then all of a sudden, I'm Mari just somebody else, So you know it, that's how it happened. Why Stephen is Stephen is quick to point out Dak's not going to another girlfriend, okay. And then and then the other key, the other key thing we have to be aware of is they've pushed back when you can start with the franchise tag from today till Thursday, which pushes the end from the March tenth
to the twelfth. Okay, So they've pushed it back, hoping that this whole thing gets settled hopefully before that. So it's just because the tag starts on the twenty seventh doesn't mean you got to give it to him on the twenty seventh. You still got however, many more days in March twelve. Let's look at all the contract negotiations. I mean, the importance of this contract negotiation. Have you ever heard that type of a response and with glosson why we didn't get it done? Like what we just
didn't call them, They didn't just call us. It's like the sense of urgency just left. Well. And because there's no deadline, and I've always realized in these negotiations, if there's a deadline, then it gets done like a real deadline, not an artificial deadline. And Stephen, I don't know if the guys have the bite or not. When Steven talked about why it didn't get done, if you guys have it, it was about I think they were pretty entrenched and if you guys got it, he can play it. Otherwise
I'll read it to you. Well, go ahead, no, no, no. Stephen said, they were pretty entrenched with their thoughts, and we were pretty entrenched with our thoughts. You know why they were so entrenched with their thoughts because Dak knew he was going to have a great season. He knew he was gonna put up numbers. He had knowledge about this Cowboys offense that none of us had going into the season. It was the twenty third ranked pass offense
in the league the previous year. We if anyone would have said this is going to be the number one or two ranked pass offense in the league, we would have said, you're crazy, it's not gonna happen. He knew what was being implemented and how they were going to attack things as far as this offense goes this year, and he knew the money's not going down. Yeah, that's the only risk he had was getting hurt. That's for rind at that time. Was Kellen Moore. That's right, he knew, right,
he had information. Yeah, I got that kind of to me though. That gives you an indication of what they were asking for, which was not in line of obviously what the Cowboys were offering. And the key thing and this whole thing when I hear people say, well, just get it done. What are you waiting on? You know, you gotta pay. We don't know what they're asking right, right, they could be asking for fifty million years. Well, there's a lot of rooms out there and that's when we
don't know. Well, so until you know, we kind of know where the Cowboys are probably somewhere close to thirty million a year in the regular package, not the guarantee, because these other guys didn't get guaranteed thirty million a year.
So and what they're asking we don't know. Now would that be two schools of thought, one being from dak saying that, you know, Jimmy Garoppolo two years ago was the highest paid quarterback in the NFL, and n now that's the not even the tenth highest paid as amongst
his peers. And so knowing that after the other looming tracks that we have from Patrick Mahomes and other guys in the league, that two years from now he made, his contract may not even be top five top in the NFL, and he doesn't have another opportunity to negotiate until right now. So all of his value is in what he stands for right now at this point. Yeah, but that's life in the United States, right when you look at somebody's gonna get paid more than you tomorrow.
When you look at quarterbacks versus other positions, they have more opportunities to get that big contract. You know, I think da when you look at it. Even if you look at his career, let's just say it goes, say maybe thirteen years or whatever, he's still that chance to get two more big contracts. Let me give you a great saying. And it came from Pat summer All. Several
years ago. We were at lunch together in our little lunch group, and I was trying to explain to him why Greg Ellis was unhappy with his contract because he signed like a seven year deal, which no one did back then, and then all of a sudden, the contracts exploded, the cap went up, and now he's not happy to those last two or three years and he's totally underpaid. And I said, yeah, poor poor Gregg, he came along
too soon. And summer All and his deep voice goes, well, we all came around absolutely, So what how do you feel about you know, cowboy alumni, you know that are saying that, hey, take the deal from Sam to get to that. Emma must I had too many hits to his head. He would have said that about it Smith when he was going through his contract stuff, well, he brought instances and examples to where he tried to boost
his case. He talked about you know, certain players that were deferring money, the backloading that we were talking about early in this in the ship saying the difference. Then that was ninety three and there was no salary cap. Yeah, so he could argue for any money he wanted and it was Jerry's money. Now it's Dallas Cowboys money, and I think there's a difference. Uh so, m it won't be invited to the to the negotiations, think about it.
That's the contracts signing. Emma didn't sign contracts twice. Right, I'm not gonna say because he hates it when you call it a holdout. He was without a con He was not there for two games because he wasn't have a contract, was pregnant anymore. And then as rookie year, he showed up the Tuesday before the season opener trying to get a contract. So yeah, he went through it twice.
You know, Heckma is your example of Garoppolo two years ago, average salary twenty seven point five million dollars And now here we are two years later and everyone's talking about, oh, well, Patrick Mahome is gonna get forty million. You know what, Patrick Mahomes waits a little bit longer and it's gonna be forty five. And that's the thing for Dak. I mean,
Dak understands his value is right now. And so that's why I don't believe that he's acquiescent to the pressure that's being applied, because he understands if he caves now, he may not have another opportunity to do this in his prime. And so looking at the numbers that are coming, that's look he was what's caving well, I mean, caving to me is taking a twenty eight thirty thirty million
dollar deal that became when Garoppolo signed his contract. The average guarantee of the contract was fifteen million fifteen million, right, So when you look at what the guarantees are, they're different than what the total packages. Yeah, because most of these guys like Goff and Wentz that the team on the guarantee part. Now, they would lose some dead money, but they could get out of those contracts after three years.
They could get out if they failed. Now, do you want that contract or do you want a guarantee over the course like um kirk Cousins got. Yeah, it was three years eighty four millions. That's three years eighty four million averages twenty eight million a year. So do you want his contract or is that not enough? So when we're talking about the guarantee, it's different than the total package,
and I think people need to understand that. All right, Everson, do you remember when you were at the combine what your hand size was? Man? I saw that. You know what? Did you go to the less we come back? I'm talking cowboys. I've got to take measure out. We're measure in hands. You're not cutting by my hand. Yeah, let's measure your hands. I'm Jay Novachik, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys back in the day. I was the guy who always got the tough yards and that's why
I run with John Dear today. In fact, I have a John Dear three zero twenty five E tractor that can handle any yard work I need to do, even the tough yards way out back. So if you have one acre or a thousand, John Deer has the equipment that's just right for you, visit a John Deer dealer today and run with us. We are the official tractor provider of your Dallas Cowboys. SLURA is a proud sponsor of the Dallas Cowboys helping fans see more and do
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based on GWS one s cour September twenty nineteen. Back to talking cowboys. Boy, you've been spy. You are looking live the Porge Center, Chrisco, Texas. We've got boxing coming up. Yeah, We've got a boxing press conference coming up in a little while and then away in on Friday. In on Friday. It's Mikey Garcia versus Jesse Vargas boxing Ford Center. Anything on the line in that fight, there would be about that. To be able to read this press release, my eyes
aren't good enough to see it. No, it's just Mikey Garcia versus Jesse Vargas. That's what it is. Yep, that's what it is. As soon as I get down in the press release, I'll tell you more about it. All right, we are told, Chris Beam says w BC what diamond diamond belt, No matter what that is. Okay, that doesn't sound like a Championships w BC. They gotta make it important. So the y'all watch that fight Saturday. Did I did? I did not? You paid the money, Mayor Mickey ten dollars.
You paid ten of the eighty. Yeah, you had seven of your friends there helping pay. Couldn't sit no, I couldn't sit on my couch. I had to go somewhere. But I saw it. Okay, it was great fight. Me and about two one hundred and fifty of my friends in the place. Yeah, your friends, Yeah, no one knows, that's right. Yeah. I was in Atlanta at the Black Cots Hall of Fame, so I didn't get a chance to watch it. There's hanging out with hammering Hanks. Oh
that's right, that's right. How was that? Oh it was you know, I do it all the time. I do it all the time. No big deal, all right, I saw that Hank. I'm hanking. That's awesome. I thought. I thought Fury looked like a bigger and batter Broadness. Oh, go on, a lot batter and a lot bigger, six nine seventy games, shaved head and he gaged. He didn't look anything like Brian Broadness. I thought he did the gypsy King. Do you think Tyson Fury looks like Brian
bro don't? But why from think he's got this larger than life? The image of Brian brought us in his head. Okay, big head, all right? How you going by just the size of the head. And they're both white as white can be? No, and he pulled it off. I mean, fury man for seven rounds he put it on. He put it on. My think. Okay, everyone keeps talking about how good to find, how well he fought, and of
his strategy worked perfectly. But do you think the ear situation if you, if you just if you've ever played sports before with one ear, you know, no, I had to dud slap me one time. Oh my god, it's a different. Yeah. So imagine going seven rounds with one ear, so that deuilibrium is gone. The ear blood the entire time, Ye came from inside. Yeah, so I think was looking the blood that was so nasty. I'm thinking his equilibrium when his wife and heck, can you tell me if
I'm wrong. But not only did he get knocked down those two times he lost his balance, A couple didn't his legs. His legs didn't look like they were there and he hit him. It's almost like he was just ready to fall or just that's why he wanted to and said all from the blows they wanted that they didn't seem to be that pass. And I was really happy that his his corner, uh you know, throw in the towel because he was in danger if it wentn't
any further, you know. And a lot of guys that guess in this whole macho world that we live, and they talk about going out on the shield and nobody wants to watch someone die in the ring. And I was really happy that the guys say that don't box. Yeah, well he said that that's what. That's what Deontay Wilder said. I'm I hate that they didn't let me go out on my shield. And I'm like, man, you would have went out on your guarney if they didn't call it.
And they talked about his corner. Yeah, thank god, he saw it about exactly he saw it. Said, man, you can't you can't say anything when he when he stopped the fight, I thought the referee stopped it and I was going, what And then it was like, oh, the corner kid, because he wasn't defending he threw the towel in. Yeah, all right, I measured in my hand. That's what's going on at the combine right now. Okay, to all these your hand, this hand, size matter, everything does not. It
does not give me nothing here. I brought to take measure from home. Heck, I want you to measure Everson Walls my good hand, your left hand, pink. You go from the pinky to the thumb. We're in the nine over here. He's got larger hands. And I've always thought Everson he had so many interceptions, you had to have eleven inches. You do not have to have big hands. I do have to do is have good eyes. So Joe Burrows should not. No one should be concerned about
Joe Burrow. I'm not the ball throwing the ball, catching the ball. Now. Of course, it'd be great to have Drew Pierce's hands, you know, just huge, long and like like spider webs or whatever. Be nice to have like a hell I'll call Michael hands. I saw him this past weekend, but I just had thee That's why most of the time I was going up with two hands, you know. But you gotta be able to you gotta be able to judge if you can't judge it, no matter how big your hands, you can't. Yeah, I'm sure
Biden Jones hands are bigger than mine. How many picks does he have shots fired? I'm just what you're another contractor? All right, that's pretty good. And by the way, the Combine has a slightly different schedule this year. They're they're leaning it towards a prime time coverage rather than the middle of the day. How much do y'all get into watching the Combine? Love it? I watch it every hand.
It depends on the position. I think he probably likes the big guy you're watching, d you're watching, the more players, he probably likes the I watch them all. I mean, I really enjoy seeing those guys that I'm valling in college and get see them get this opportunity. So and then especially the forty times really interesting in those in like linebacker shutter drills, you know, receiving drills, just seeing guys. Yeah, the shuttle is to me more exciting than all. Yeah,
I love it. I love I love seeing and just seeing those guys that you've projected to go high and see how they actually do in some of those drills. And when you start talking about these drills the forty times, I always thought, why does that tell me how good I am? Why is that a barometer on how is your time? Forty seven on a bad day, forty six on a good day. And so if I'm with the wind with a back win, you were okay? When did
the combine start? I don't know. Before me okay? So but to me, he didn't he didn't get an everybody to combat. Heck no, I was only I only had eleven interceptions my senior year. I guess that don't qualified. That's right there. But now when you start talking about the drills forty nine time, to me, I don't think that's a good way to show how good you are. The shuttle time, to me, that really shows what the actor shuttle back then. They did a shuttle back then,
but they they should do it for me. They don't do it for me. They do a shuttle back then. You know, they've added some new drills now that the guys actually do drills in practice. So I don't know if you remember, and I don't know how to describe it. The defensive linemen they line up those blocking dummies and they have to run in and out of them. Snack
them around them. They've added that drill, and they're gonna tell yeah, because they want to see how guys, as far as their mas and theirs, can I get around this thing. Slap, go onto the next one. Slap it, go on to the next one. And so they've ad it. They're timing it, they're adding that drill. So I was reading how they've added several drills more applicable to what
happens in pros than than what they've been. A guy going there two twenty five and bench press thirty five times, you know, and it's like, oh my god, it's gott strong. He's good. First round like that standing broad drops twelve feet outstanding. I mean, what was your standing, Brodect. I think Byron's got you on that. I bet he did. He got all of that. No, I think I may have gotten about nine something like that. It wasn't amazing.
My thing was this. I was a basketball player, and so you talk about the shuttle and things that, you know, we did gases in basketball practice. I love that. I loved it. I looked forward to gas because I was good at it, you know, just running the lines, and to me, that shows the agility that you need the
footwork that you're gonna need to me. It's a it's a drill that really shows all in one what kind of athlete you're looking at, you know, having your hands, you know, not figuring that, not figuring that into the equation, but just the ability to use your body to see how a person exactly, I can evaluate a person running the shuttle better than I can running the floor. So you think you would have had a sub four second twenty yard shuttle, Well, I know I would have. I
was very good anytime after practice I was. I was in shape. I was always in shape. I was always in shape more than anyone on the team. Dips uh the medicine ball we used to do. Me and Dennis Thurman did so many it was no big deal. So when you evaluate evaluate, So the short shuttle is something you would look at the short shuttle time. We're talking about change of directions for the movement. Okay, those are the things that matter back, Yeah, how quickly do you
go from one point to the other, not how fast? Okay, quickness is one thing. Fast is another thing. So I always like the quickness more and that's how I made my living. But about your critical vertical was good. It was got at thirty three back then. That was good. Thirty three was all I needed and my arms along, so everything compensates for the other. And in my mind anyway, now this with the new b Jones at a forty four and a half, yeah, wow, I mean up out
of I remember Ron Springs Son, Sean Springs. It was something ridiculous like that forty seven thirty six that was to me, that was ridiculous at the time, thirty eight at that time. Alright, I've got Byron Jones numbers called up here. Okay, six nine okay, ten inch hands, forty four and a half vertical and that broad jump was twelve for you, wasn't it. That's what I thought. Yeah, yeah it was. He it was a record. I'll distanced
everyone by nine inches. Yeah. His cone his cone drill was six point seven eight okay, and his short shuttle was three ninety four. Yeah. That's good. That's impressive. That is well. Yeah, he was. He was the darling of the combat. That's why he can cover. Well, Mickey, I was going to ask you as far as the new coaching staff being at the combine and evaluating players, and we're still kind of in that mode where we're trying
to guess exactly what the team is looking for. Obviously there are a lot of holes on the defensive side. What I mean, what if all of amongst the players that you've probably avoid waited, do you believe is just number one on the list as far as this new coaching staff down And indeed, well, I think that's what the coaching staff. I thought this was interesting and Steven pointed it out. The coaching staff and the scouts along with the front office guys have been getting together, so
the scouts understand what the coaches want. And the last thing you want to do is draft a guy and then the coach gets him and goes he doesn't fit in mycens So what they're working on right now is trying to figure out what does the defensive line coach want compared to what Marinelli wanted, or what does the
secondary coach want compared to what Chris Richard wanted. And I think they're trying to get a consensus on that type of stuff before they get to the point where you're talking about it's like Okay, let's have this guy or let's take that guy. But I think Stephen repeatedly said that this has to be a very defensive the office offseason for the Cowboys, that they've got to repair the defense. And I think he's absolutely right. That's what we say it in here, right, he must have been
listening to I mean, think about it. And so if you are, you thinking in terms of free agency or the draft, all of it, resigning, free agency, so many issues with it. You gotta look at all options. You can't just, you know, say you got to go free agency, but because you have to. But you can't just say free agency because no defense in the draft last year their second round pick, Yeah, defensive player that turn out yeah, which is my point, But which is and you take
care of that stuff in free agency. They have a draft, you're taking the best player you can get. Your head, they have enough needs, they have enough needs that they can do that. And you wouldn't say, well, why did you do that? Because I think if you think about it, after Dak and Amari, Okay, now what's next, what position do you have to worry about? To me, it's cornerback and defensive event. I've always said safety. I've always said, Sam,
you're a safety guy. To me, safeties down the list because my corners are covering, they make the safety better. All right, So does this team need a draft pick safety or do they need a veteran safety? Good question, and I was just thinking about that. To me, I would love to have a nice free agent safety with experience that can adapt to any situation. And then how much money are you willing to invest in that? I'm
going to invest good money into that. But because this guy's going to be the one that anchors my secondary, and is he a what skills do you want that person to have? Center field range he's got to have. We had no range in our secondary. We looked at We always talked about the Jets game. I'm sorry, Spats, I didn't mean to bring that up again, but the Jets game itself the study to go on. He should he should have still made that play. He still should
have made that play. You need someone that's it's not just the range. Range comes with anticipation. Okay, you're you've you've already diagnosed what's gonna happen. You don't react, You've already and anticipated that it's gonna happen. So you should know that I've got only so many options out here, and I need to take a quick mental note, quick mental note on where that's gonna be. And that way my steps are quicker to me. Your your feet follow your brain. So if you recognize it, then your feet
are gonna follow in turn. And he recognized it too slowly. So just read and react, Read and react. But once again, you still have to have the range to get there once you But what do you think about the guys that the safeties that they have That guy Xavier McKinley, McKinney the safety, No, no, no, I'm talking about the safety in the draft, you know from Alabama? And he is he a free or is he a box? He's a free? I mean this better be a free. I don't want to spend money on a guy that's playing
five yards. So basically, the conventional wisdom has always said, you know, look, let's take the best guy that's on the board. But the Cowboys can't afford if there's a great tight end that comes down to that area. Or let's say a receiver. Do you draft a receiver in the first round when you know that the needs that you have are on defense and there's a guy in there, so everyone's saying, you know, hey, let's take the what
your needs are. Now, who doesn't know what the needs are because you don't know what's going to happen in Free We don't we don't know whether what's happening with Cooper yet, So all right, so hypothetically, let's let's let's if you don't get Cob back, what if I saw a mock draft today that gave him CD lamb. So what happens is in a lot of teams, when you when you reach the thing, when you reach, you pay. When you reach, you pay. And if you and if the defense, if you're not able to get, take care
of those things as best you can. But if you can't get the guys, if you can't at the guys right now, and then it comes down late in the season and you hadn't made you hadn't filled those gaps, and then you pay for it later. You can't take a guy with your first round knowing that you're gonna have needs on the defense, if, like you said, you don't get those those guys, take your pick in the first round. Well that you took, you took defense, and you could have taken an offense. That's why you don't
still be again. That's why you don't reach on a player that maybe doesn't fit your scheme. That's why the synergy I mentioned last week has to be there. You have to know what guy you're taking. That's why they took Tcco because he fit right, yeah, and T J. Watt didn't fit. Well look all right, well let's say this, so we took we took we took Bobby Carpenter over to rail sugs. I think you know, hindsight is always twenty twenty. I'm talking about right now exactly what we need.
And we know we need a safety, we know we need a defensive end. Does the safety get to make all the difference in the world more so than a pass rushing defensive end? And now, to me, that's when you have to figure out what your system is. And we don't know what. If it's uh, if it's passed us uh you know heavy, then yeah, that's what you want. I don't know what what Mike Nolan's right philosophy is when it comes to pass with US. I know he loves the blitz, and I know he loves active linebackers
that we do. Let me give you an example in the draft Taco Charlton in the first round, defensive end. Cowboys needed a defensive end. Okay, we need a defensive end. Okay, well they took Taco Charlton. Okay, Juju Smith's Schuster is sitting there. He went second round. Okay, Cheeto went one pick ahead of Juju Smith's Schuster. Okay, we didn't need a wide receiver, so we're not taking Juju. Well, a
year later we needed a wide receiver. Des hitting on the team anymore, and we're sitting there going, Okay, we got a trade for Amari Cooper. Now in the middle of the season, we could have taken Juju smith Schuster, but at the time him in the draft, we're sitting there going, we don't need a wide receiver. We got Doz Bryant. Why do we need a wide receiver. We gotta take a defensive end. It changes so quickly in
this league. I mean, you can go unique, no, but you can go year after year after year and every team and every team two eight. Okay, the Packers take Jordy Nelson. What the and or eight or Old nine, whichever year that was. It was oh eight because the Cowboys had two first round draft picks took Mike Jenkins and Felix Jones. Okay, Jordy Nelson went in the second round. Well, the Cowboys are sitting there going, we don't need a
wide receiver. We don't need a wide They wind up trading for Royal Williams and giving up another first round pick because they didn't they went for need rather than the best player available. You know, and it's if twa falls to seventeen. Let's just say something happens with the medical report and two of falls to seventeen, do you take two of somebody will want them and I'll trade down. But I'm saying, I mean, I mean, all things being equal,
you have quarterback. It's an equal No. Well, here's here's the thing. You asked me a question about which would I take a defensive lineman over a safety. I'm obviously going to take a defensive lineman because of DB's best friend. It's the guys that are up, and so you know, look again, I said, conventional wisdom says take the guy with the highest grade on your board. But you look
at what you need versus what you want. And every team can go back over the draft board and say, you know what, gosh, we missed a great opportunity to get a player. But right now, you gotta trust the guys that are on the side, the other side of the building to make the right decision. But I bet you anything that like in the case of Juju versus Taco, that the majority of people would say Juju Smith Schuster is a better football player than Taco Charlton today, No,
they would have said that then. I mean, it was it was apparent to me that Jude, you gotta take Juju over this game, you know, because if you think about when they took Taco, it was like, well, this guy's improving in in a year or two, he'll be better than what he is now right on the come. And it never happened, or at least not in the
system the Cowboys were playing. All right, we're going to take a trip down memory lane thirty one years ago today when talking Cowboys continues in a moment since eighteen sixty five, Stetson hats are American maid with pride right here in Texas, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Want to show your Texas and Team pride too, You can by purchasing your own Stetson, you can look just like how the flag guys do
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when you see it. I old twenty three doctor Pepper stack from top to bottom as far as the eye can see. The phrase two going to be true comes to mind. Yet there it is a rich, delicious doctor Pepper paradise. Wait did did that can of doctor pepper just open itself for you? They all are as if to say, so nice to treat you. And even though it feels weird to talk to we, can you pick one up and say, it's so nice to be treated
doctor Pepper, So nice to treat you. Back to talking cowboy. So, since we've been talking corners in safeties, what does pick six mean to you? Guys? Pick six something I've never had? Well, if you go to Jack Block, no pick six as well. Now here's how you can get your pick six free. You go to Jack Black and you have six free
deluxe samples with your seventy five dollar perches. You can pick something like TurboWash industrial strength handhealer might make your hands stick your hand, that's right, Pure clean daily facial cleanser. And this one is Bill's favorite deep dive glycolic facial cleanser. Wow, and that's stuff, just four his own commercials. That's what the word up. Just go to Jack Black dot com deep dive, what glycolics basic clin You don't you don't use it the word, man, I don't tell the word.
It's really good stuff. Guess what tonight eleven fifty nine is the deadline to pick your six. So it's just like a scrub. Yeah, okay, so you did have a pickup. You did have a pick six? I have one in New York. Yeah. Heck, man, do you ever have a pick six in your life? I have yes, Remember I have one in that list. I have one one, man, I relive it every day. Give me the details. What happened. I was at Lincoln High School Spragg Stadium against Roosevelt
High School. Yeah. Never the quarterback Mike Dean, Mike Dean, what make you? What about your pigs in West Minnesota? Don't believe I ever had a pick six? Bill, if you're coming around to me, and I did have a pick six in my life. I think it was ten and under Irving YMCA football. I picked off Bill Banowski and took it to the house. Wow, you remember his name? I remember his name that. The question is when you got to the end zone, could you breathe? How long
was It's like twenty yards? It was like it was like Larry Brown in the Super Bowl. I made it to the end zone right by the way. Yeah is nil. O'Donnell was asking if you could breathe. The XFL needs to rethink this. The dude runs back a kickoff ninety yards for a touchdown. The next thing, you know, what did you do? The guy like he couldn't breathe was done. At least That's why I asked you breathe, because I'm telling you I could not. I went sixty sixty yards.
I was twenty yards. It was a house call. Nobody caught you. No man out on the flatplane corner, no linebacker, linebacker okay in Dallas, but Ed Ed screwed it up. I just looked like I was just so smooth. I looked like Cooper going through that and weaving through the offense and bump into the end zone and Ed Jones clips a guy. No, I'm already like five years payback must beginning. Your buck whip this game for you to
just have to do that. I'm already at spags. He's clipping the guy back here where I am and uh. We end up losing that game. And it's so funny. Brad Sham said that that penalty cost us our playoffs in nineteen eighty seven. Whoa because we lost that game against the Raiders. It was a Sunday night game, I believe, and we once we lost that game, that took us out of position. Uh, and we were desperate after that in nineteen eighty s you know what that led to.
That led to February twenty fifth, nineteen eighty nine, one years ago today, Crisp very difficult meeting. It's very very sad. It's tough when your break a relationship that we've had for twenty nine years. I just want to say this, there is no substitute for winning. I know that's a cliche, but we must win. We will win. When is the name of the game. A man that is going to be with the Cowboys is Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy's on his
way back to Miami. He's gonna come back up here and he's gonna give everything in the heart and soul of Jimmy Johnson. This is a new generation, but there it was thirty one years ago. Mickey, you were there, I was there, were you there? I was in San Antonio. I was working in San Antonio at the time. I was sitting in that room listening to that. And when we were done writing, I remember this as clear as day. Text invited us into his office said hey, when you
come by, come have a beer. And I remember sitting on the floor and it was like, you know how you go to kind of a funeral and then afterwards, when the ceremonies over, you kind of gather with you just and we were just reminiscing, and it was like it was a funeral for tex because he knew he was that, he knew he was out the door, and even in this we were all sitting there and uh, I remember it was kind of somber. And Frank Lux, a steam writer for the Times Herald at that time.
It was his birthday February twenty fifth as well. A matter of fact, he would have turned eighty four today, passed away at seventy seven. I remember he got up and he goes, well, go home. So my birthday's almost over Henrietta is waiting for me white the time? Did
the press conference have eight o'clock or so? It was late because Jerry had gone to Austin to give coach Landry the news on the golf course early evening six secause I want to say that the meeting at the golf course in Austin was late afternoon because I was monitoring in that in San Antonio and it was dark by the time the press conference happened. Well, when we went into Texas office, it was late because we had
already finished writing and hit our deadlines. When papers actually had deadlines that allowed you to get breaking news instead of saying go to the website and read the story. Right. So yeah, I remember that as clear as as clear as I think about that, that whole advantage. You see how sad text was, but you you I could feel that in this room here. I always thought that they were a victim of their own demise in that regard, and I always look back in the nineteen eighty seven
that strettrike that killed our team, It really did. It killed our team. You know that interception he got called back one of the other I think that you saw at that time. Uh, they were very ingenious with the scab games and things of that nature, replacement players and all of that. And what it did here the locker room and just the organization erode it from that point. Uh you look at and you look at how the Cowboys handled the strike versus how the Redskins handled the strike.
Joe Gibbs refused to allow his players to piecemeal their way in or out, either you all the way in, all the way out, you know, and they all stuck together as a unit. And I think that did a lot for that organization. And when you saw what happened with US eighty seven, you know, after you saw Dorset and Randy White, Doug Cosby, all these guys playing within the scab games, and uh, I just thought it just erased any type of confidence that not just the players
had in the organization. There was always players versious management. But to me, this eroded the locker room itself. And a lot of it was because of way their contracts were structured. They were told they had to go in because they had come on said and they didn't know. They chose that. Let's don't get me mad, now, they chose that excuse, right, I know, I know, they chose that excuse and they all had the same annuities, and
Danny White was in the same situation. And then it kind of forced two tall Randy Dorset, Yeah, uh, Cosby and all and they're all the guys. These are the guys in the locker room, and they played them. They play It was one thing to say that had to go in, but they played him. And so when when and and coach Landry he was complicit. I mean he should have known better, He should have known better. But at that time he was also and he always said
he wasn't, but he was also management. He was the three headed you know, leadership at that Remember the day when Texts came out and argued you with you guys. You guys were on the picket line and by the parking lot and text came out and arguing with the guys. It was like, this isn't getting anywhere. Was motivated, he was motivated. He was motivated. Yeah, well you know, and then the next year you don't have a quarterback. Yeah, Steve pel Yeah, yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy.
It just got it just got worse and worse from there. So when you see texts, how sad he was. That was a culmination of a lot of different events that pretty much he put in place. As far as I'm to say, he was the He was the designer of the scab games, the replacement teams, that was replacement players. That was all his idea. It was. It was right there at Valley Ranch. Well, they came up with that hole. Here's the other thing that happened in the eighties. Rod
Hill nineteen eighty two. Now, Jeff Coo was a good pick in eighty three state Uh yep, Billy Cannon. Billy Cannon in eighty four, Kevin Brooks memory, he heard, Jeff, guys, do realize I'm in the hotel Thomas shit right now, Thank you guys. Michael Serard in eighty six two broken legs, came back in eighty seven year, and then they came back in nineteen eighty eight and came up with Michael Irvin, followed by Ken Norton. But you have drafts like that
throughout the eighties. Michael Levin was hurt almost his entire rookie year. That's try. Yeah. He came back last game and toasted Dale Green for almost two hundred yards. There you go, and we said that's our guy. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, but you have drafts like that, which gets us back to this week at the combine. So wait, let me do one more thing. So the last person in that picture was Bumbright, who was the owner then, so he bought the team. Um was an end of eighty three.
It was before Clint Murkison. But okay, so I saw this Trump quote, this quote right there January first, nineteen eighty four in the New York Times. Right. I feel sorry for the poor guy who was going to buy the Dallas Cowboys. It's a no win situation for him because if he wins, well so what they've won through the years. And if he loses, which seems likely because they're having troubles, he'll be known to the world as a loser. Donald J. Trump. This is coming from a
guy that won three dollars in the settlement with the usfail. Right, see how that works out? Yeah? And your what's he doing? Yeah? Right? All right? Doesn't for this edition that talking Cowboys, and we will talk at you again next week with our combine reviews. Heck mcget on that home on. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club