Talkin' Cowboys: Ups & Downs

How do you even need my slors to see that? That's crazy? That's crazy good, that's gracious. Let's okay. So I'm gonna redo this all right. It is a Wednesday edition of Talking Cowboys on the air here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. So glad everybody's been able to join us, and hopefully you'll learn something here over the next hour. I know I've already learned a couple of things in the last five minutes. Heck Harrison, Isaiah stand back, Rob Phillips, I'm Kyle Yeoman's is. We've got a ton to catch

up on. I feel like over the last couple of days, good and bad around the Dallas Cowboys. Where do you guys want to start. I'll let you guys get the option. We go on with the good or the bat to start some good man a positive twenty one, let's get twenty twenty Devil's advocate. I like that. I like that a lot. So we're gonna start with the positive. And one of those positives was that Mike McCarthy just said it, But it was kind of what I think all of

us were thinking on or excuse me, yesterday. That might have been the best practice we've seen for the Dallas Cowboys, especially without Dak Prescott throughout training camp. Cooper Rush had a really nice practice overall, and of course we had an extended conversation about the backup quarterback position on Monday. But Rob, I'll start with you, what did you see out of yesterday's practice and what do you expect moving into today? Actually I thought he said it wasn't really

a good Proc said it was was not. He said Cooper Rush had a solid day, okay, working with the ones, so that was good. We saw the touchdown pass late to Amari Cooper. That was a heck of a catch time by number nineteen. And if you want to go positive. We're starting positive, ya Zak Prescott's going to do more in practice today. That's huge. He's going to do some competitive stuff. Isaiah. Seven on seven heck, yeah, I don't know about team, but hey, beyond just individual throwing, which

we saw more of yesterday. So that's a positive from number four QB one. So he said, he said seven on seven work. He didn't. He didn't elaborate on team. He just said yes over in terms of competitive throwing for Dad today. Yeah, And you know, to this point, he hasn't even done seven on seven since July twenty eighth, So it's a it's a step forward, and they're doing this very intentionally. This is something he could have done a while back. They're just being very very careful with him.

But as we saw pre game Saturday night, he can make all the throws. I don't think that's a concern right now, is Jerry said on the fan yesterday, and Isaiah has been saying this. It's it's something you've got to make sure doesn't carry into beyond week one when he plays the opener. Isaiah, Yeah, no, I mean that's it.

I mean they're doing it the right way. I mean, when you while you have the time to ensure that he is as healthy as he can be going into the season, you want to you know, error on the side of caution. So they're doing the exact right thing, which we know that they have the best, you know, one of the if not the best, he probably you know, one of the best training staffs in this entire league.

So they know exactly what they're doing. They're prepared. Yeah, you know the practice yesterday for for Cooper Rush, he did look good, and I think you look good when you're behind the number one offensive line. And as much as Cooper Rush looked good, let's just talk about Garrett Gilbert's confidence going in the trash can right now. He just seems like a guy that his confidence is shot. And we talk about him and the job being his to lose. I think he's lost it, you know, and

I think it's just because of his confidence. Now, you know how coaches do. They'll mess with your confidence, they'll yank you, they'll make you feel like you don't have anything, and you have to build yourself back up just to see if you have the mental for the two to do this. And I think Garret Gilbert, for a lot of the OTAs, and even through training camp, he's been getting a lot of smelly stickers and smelly stickers back.

He's been getting those smelly stickers, and then he has that first quarter where it's like whoa, he gets yanked. Cooper Rush comes in, he throws some good balls, and now all of a sudden, everybody is turning those smelly stickers over to Cooper Rush, talking about him and having a good practice yesterday. Ain't throwing dimes to Mark Cooper. So you know, I just want to see Double G get back in it because I still feel like he's I just still feel like he's better than Cooper Rush.

That's just my evaluation of the two quarterbacks so far. I think this is one of the few times that you can say, and you know, obviously you know coach just alluded to it in this press conference, but that you're going into the fourth gaming and you're undecided on your back up. I think this is one of the few times that you could probably look back in history and say, we don't know who our number two is. And I think that is very much so the case.

And this is a very important game obviously for Rush, but Double G you know, can you snapback? Are they playing games or have you really lost some lost some tread right, you lost some confidence and the players have lost some confidence. We've already talked about that. Now you're giving Cooper Rushing an opportunity to go out there and make some plays. Sneaky. You know, it's like, as this is when it gets real. This is when you, guys, when as fans you got understand that this is this

is a team. However, there's a lot of individual battles going on, right, So you're you're fighting for yourself. Let's not get this confused. You were the team starts with Ie. If there's no Ie, there's no team, because the team is a collection of eyes, right, So you have to go out there, you have to compete for yourself and in the process you hope that you can obviously make

some some donations to the team. It is interesting because, Okay, Dak pulls himself out of practice July twenty eight, So from like July twenty ninth till August twentieth, it's Cooper Rush is taking the second team reps, and it's Garrett Gilbert pretty much all the first team reps. Kyle Yeah in Ox and hard carrying over to here, and then all of a sudden we get to the game and

they want to balance it out a little bit. Soble gave a reason, right, Double G gave them a reason to look at Rush a little bit more intentfully that that was on Double G's fault. That was his fault. He For those who've never seen the Friday and then the movie Friday, Debo used to creep in the window if you left the window open, right that the neighborhood bully was. The name was Debo. He would live you left the window cracked open. He coming through that dog

on the door. I come through that window. Cooper Rush, Debot, Cooper Rush creeping in the window. Just be realistic. I mean, let's this is a preface with God forbid, you know, but God forbid if something happens where you start the season with Russia as your backup and he has to go in at Tampa. If I mean, like I say, God forbid, Gud's why y'all looking at me like that. I'm just saying, just feel like you're putting it out

in the opening. Well, what I'm saying, but I'm actually saying, is from what coach McCarthy is saying, I think he's dealing in the reality of that that if that is what you have to if that's going to be your second quarterback, then he's not confident in it. You have to dabble in that. You have to think that way, just the way that the world is working the last couple of years, because if not, you're going to be underprepared.

You're not going to be prepared for something. If something were to happen to Dak Prescott, you gotta have some sort of security, and right now I don't think you do. And the crazy thing is is kind of going back to what Isaiah was saying with keeping that that window cracked. Was that had to happen at least the moment when the coaching staff said, hey, Gary Gilbert's giving us a reason to look at Cooper Rush a little bit more. That had to happen before the Texans game. It had

to happen well before that. No, I think Cooper Rush has been practicing well now that he's a little healthier than he was early in camp. I think that's part of it. I don't think it's all double G not doing enough, sure, but I do think one other thing to remember if y'all watched Hard Knocks last night, I don't know I caught it the end Mike McCarthy. He said in the press conference after the game, but also in the locker room. The turnover margin, like he is

not happy with that. Benda Nucci throws three picks they had they were minus four in the game. That was the biggest problem this team had last year, one of the biggest problems. And Cooper Rush has done a better job of taking here to care of the ball at this point. And if you're if you're coming in as the backup quarterback, that's number one is don't make a mistake.

You got to be able to make plays, but you got to be able to get your team in the right plays the right situations and don't turn it over. And that's probably the best thing Cooper Rush does. In addition to being comfortable with the alf you're saying, Cooper Rush acknowledge what the most important thing to his coach was. He chose to make sure that he that he tends to those needs he has to this point. Um, he

didn't throw one up for grabs before halftime, thank you. Yeah, but he's I think he's just done the better job of the three in that regard, in the reps that they've all had to this point. To this point, defense, I'm still laughing about the defenses. Will defenses will bum rush us. I mean, if we start if either one though, right, I mean either one. It's either one, yeah, either one either We've we've all said this. I think we I don't think any of us truly believe that our backup

quarterback is on this roster, right, not anymore? Well I thought that way going in. I was, well, I never yeah, I never thought that our backup quarterback was on this roster. And as we're seeing things happen around the league, there are other teams like as I mentioned right, as we get closer here, less and less opportunities to go out there and grab somebody. I mean, we saw what happened with Atlanta who they wouldn't got, and they just let you know. There's not a lot out there in terms

of quarterbacks. So we have to figure this out and it's gonna come down to this game. I was very bullish on Oh on our guy. I mean I was I thought DOUBLEG had something. Wow, I was. I meant, but you still think wow, right, I still still think he's a better I do. You just wanted to be triple G. They ain't going triple It's going And I even called g wagon. You know it's going back. Why Why is it always the backup quarterbacks that we're able to make the best names for him? Man? Yeah? Like

why is it Nucci Man and Ducci? Nucci? And I don't know, Man, I acknowledge, I acknowledge the efforts of these guys, Both of these guys. I acknowledge their efforts, and they I think they've both done a tremendous job competing. It's not they are not of the caliber of what we need coming off of what we faced last year. And that's fact. I thought we were starting on something positive and we did start star we started there. I mean, but this is the reality. This is the reality. This

is this is our reality. Two weeks from tomorrow, two weeks from tomorrow, we're playing the best team in world as a last year, Yes, and we're not secure in this particular position. If something drastic was to happen, yeah, I mean I and I'm with you, like, I'd be shocked if they don't do their diligence and look around once cuts happen and all that stuff, I'm not convinced that they won't just stick with what they have. I mean, yeah,

I mean because that's a possibility. Yeah, because because even if they did get somebody, are they prepared for that game? Right? There's that too. Yeah, There's so many different aspects that go into it. And you want one of those three guys to win the job. And I guess now you can kind of dwindle it down to two, but you want one of those two guys to win the job. And because it saves you money, it saves you hardach, it saves you preparation time, and you want Cooper Rusher

Garrett Gilbert to be that guy. So we've talked enough about the backup quarterback position, I think over last episode and then in moving into today, But we do have some not so good news to report. The Cowboys added a couple more players to the COVID nineteen protocol. Demonte Kay was a part of that. So was Connor Williams, who we've already seen needed the reps in terms of his new responsibilities on the offensive line. Adds to quite the extensive list. Now what is it now? Six players?

Rob and then Dan Quinn a part of that as well. Yeah, six players, Um, you mentioned Kazy Connor Williams, Malie Cooker, Israel mcquamo, Ceedee Lamb, and Carlos Watkins who did not play Sun Saturday and left the stadium early along with Dan Quinn. So I think Mike McCarthy told us yesterday that two players were close contacts. So it's it's it's a confusing deal because there's different Yeah, I mean, it's it.

Mike said it like there's different variables and different rules for players and staff based on their vaccination status and whether the close contact and all those things. So to really know when when guys are going to be eligible to come back, it just depends, and they're not really disclosing that they're I can read you some of these rules, but I don't know if anybody wants to hear all that. But now let's let's listen to it. I want to hear it, Okay, I mean, here's this is from the league.

If a vaccinated I think Mickey found this for me. If a vaccinated person test positive and it's asymptomatic, they're isolated contact tracing, Uh, they're permitted to return after two negative tests at least twenty four hours apart, and be tested every two weeks or as directed by medical stats. If you're vaccinated, you're not subject to quarantine as a

result of a close contact. Um. Okay, So if you're unvaccinated and you test positive, same protocols from twenty twenty, isolated for ten days, and if you're asymptomatic, then can return unvaccinated, subject to five day quarantine if they have close contact with someone. So it just depends and and and what what's you know now? Like I said, I said it, we're only a few days now from the opener, and you've got multiple guys in this in this protocol.

It's you know, it's it's it's tough because you're starting to feel like this is twenty twenty again, where you know they're trying to manage this and they're back in virtual mode again today with their meetings, they are practicing today, and Mike said, they're you know, their plan is to play this game, but your hope that there's nothing else that happens tomorrow, because every day it's kind of been

something new. And you even look at last year, and of course twenty twenty was crazy for everybody, more so than some, more so than others. But there's more people in the COVID protocol now than there was last year at any point, right, I mean, this is this is as big of an outbreak. I hate using that word, but that's kind of what it is. That's what he said. Yeah, it was his direct quote, but I mean, this is as much of an outbreak as the Cowboys have had

to deal with. Yeah, and the NFL did not help anything this year. They made it more complicated than it's ever been. Obviously, we've been dealing with this for the last year. So now that you have all these different statuses and levels, and you know, they created this division where you're if you're vaccinated, it's this treatment. If you're not vaccinated as this treatment. You know, you don't want to see anybody. You don't want to see this virus

going room. You don't want to see the virus going around. But the reality is it is going around. Um and we wish it was clear cut in terms of, hey, if you have the virus, this is what happens, regardless of what your status is, regardless, but it's not that simple, and I think it's really complicated things, and it's made it more difficult for organizations to handle now because of the rules that they've set in stone. Now they have

to go back to contact tracing. Okay, how you distinguish whether the unvaccinated person had it first or the vaccinated person had it first? Like? Okay? And then now if you guys can't play the game, whose fault is it? Is it the vaccinated persons fause? Is unvaccinated person's fault? You forfeit? Yeah? Do you do not happen? Do your organization and the organization lose their checks? Or does this person have to go sit in the room for five days?

It does that person sitting room for ten days? It's beyond confusing now. I think they've made more of an issue of it now than it was last year. You know, I disagree with you. Okay, And I feel as though the NFL has tried to incentivize team to have the facilities vaccinated. I think as a business they realize that their business model is struggling because of twenty twenty, because of the amount because of COVID. You're not able to have people in the stands. You're not You're you're canceling

games you're having to reschedule. They can't do that with a seventeen game season. They put the protocol out there. You have teams that are one hundred percent vaccinator, you have teams that are seventy eighty percent vaccinated. The way that they're making the rules for teams and their guys to try and put this COVID, this virus behind us, I think is it's smart in a way. You can't you can't judge a whole league that's trying to find a solution for a global problem. This is what this

is what we're dealing with. And now that people are trying to self diagnose or tell themselves how they can deal with this, the NFL said, no, we're gonna put these rules out here in black and white, and this

is the way that it's going to go. And it may not be perfect, and it didn't all happen in the vacuum, but we're dealing with this as a society, and smarter people have to come together and say, look, this is how when we're talking about football, when I talking about society, how do we get the brand of football to go forward post pandemic. And you know, if anyone has anything smart to say please send it to

the NFL. But I think for the from the NFL and the owner standpoint, I have to push my guys to be vaccinated because that is the road of least resistance for us to get this league going forward. Right now, you can't go forward because everything is so convoluted with the guys that refuse to take the vaccine. And again that's a whole nother issue, and we're gonna take up the whole show based off of that. But I just

that's just my that's just my angle. And now it's very well said, very well said from your point, because there is no cut and dry answer, and you got to find a way what's best for you, your organization, and the league as a whole to be able to further the sport. That's bar nutt. One other thing. As of Saturday, the Cowboys announced nine the rosters vaccinated, so vast majority, only handful of players are not. So you know, your hope would be guys that have tested positive that

are on this COVID list. Hopefully, hopefully everybody feels better soon. If they do have symptoms that can get back relatively quickly, we'll see um. But in the meantime for practice they had. This is an issue yesterday and it's an issue again today even more so. Down to four safeties on the roster they're practicing today and Trayvon Diggs at the cornerback position not practicing because of a non COVID illness. So

it's just it's just coming in. Mike McCarthy's got to be like, man, this is just my team can't catch a break. But you know, when Wilson's got a growing injury. To the positive to all this, right, this is all very frustrating and all that, But the positive this, if this is going to happen, you much rather happened two weeks before your game, no doubt, no doubt if it

was going more than two weeks before. Like you said, I mean, we're at two weeks tomorrow, so there's plenty of time for week one and whenever the game's count to really get back to full strength. It's but it's I mean, it's go time now to contain it. So lots of pressure on the Cowboys, not only on the field but off the field as well. But I'm tired of talking about that stuff. I'm tired. I'm so done with it. I know people at home are tired of listening to it. It's a news story and we gotta

hit it. We have to. But I mean it's affecting the team right now, the meeting. It's affecting practice in terms of numbers. I mean, it's just it's like injuries. I mean, it's the same, it's the same deal. It's still it's a scary virus going around. Man, Yeah, it is. It's scary. We so we've We've done our due diligence. We talked about it. So now let's move on and let's be happy. What's what's one of the happiest things

about this about this team this year? It's the wide receiver group and that Amari Cooper is coming back and he's fully healthy. We're gonna talk about Amari Cooper and what we saw from Cooper in this wide receiving Corps when we come back with more talking cowboys. Honey, big news. Scary, are you? Okay? Oh? I'm not Gary anymore. I'm Jackie Flash. What see? I want the latest smartphone, but the best deals are only for customers. So to get a new

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Talk in Cowboys. Back your wood Talking Cowboys, whether you're watching from home or you're cheering in the state, and with Slore lenses you can see every exciting play book. An appointment at your local experts and see what Selor can do for you. See more, Do more on Talking Cowboys. We got a comment from the other day. It was really funny. Who oh man, what was it called? You know, I mean it was basically you've got called a weirdo? Yeah,

that's what it was. Yeah. They were like they were like Isaiah's matching up with with Kyle is weird And I was like no, I was like, it's just tradition. It's a part of the bit, it's part of the fun. We don't listen to that. It's okay, you don't listen to Twitter. If I did, Bro, we appreciate everybody on Twitter. Twitter. Oh it was Tony, Who's Who's a very loyal listener and a great cow I trusted, trusted. Yeah, by the way,

you are crazy. By the way, Since since Shannon has been tooting the Horn of Hanging with the Boys is the most searched What's Up Cowboys podcast on YouTube whatever. I'm just trying to find whatever card he can hold on to. I just want to throw it out there. Most used audio on Hard Knocks goes to this show. I think it's like a five nothing lead on the rest of the other shows too. Yeah, you want to sprinkle that on Yeah, Yeah, let's just throw that up there.

But just leave it up there. Yeah there. We've got a documentary coming out this week too, where it's all only a talking cowboys voice on that. But it's gonna be six nothing past. Here's the thing about that, Like Jesus, when Shannon makes that statement about it being the most searched it was when he wasn't on the show. Wow, wow, wow, Really that's a dub for us to say it loud for people in the back. Heck, I'm just saying in

a green shirt. Oh heck was wearing a green shirt for those of you listening to just be all right, let's talk about wide receivers and Amari Cooper because let's let's take a little uptick we're trying to here. We do love Shannon Mark Cooper back out of practice. Of course, last week there was a big feature on him on Hard Knocks, kind of getting back into the mix. And then, I mean, yesterday just made a fantastic grab off a throw from Amari Cooper. Heck, when you were out of practice,

what did you see from Amara yesterday? Outside of the fantastic grab, man, We have to start putting some respect on that man's name. I know we are all waiting for CD Lamb to emerge as what we believe he's going to be. But Amari Cooper is that right now, today, today, right now? That would be to nitty if I could combine a word on this show, and that's what he is. I mean, this guy even a Hard Knocks. This is

a part and Hard Knocks. If you didn't watch it, I think it was just awesome him just being big mentoring, being big brother to CD and just showing him his release and man, just the way that he's putting this moves together his whole career. I think that's the part that and I've even, you know, kind of fallen into that whole argument about number one number two. He's he's the alpha though he's he's number one. And he ran a fade route yesterday versus did God bless Trayvon Diggs.

He came up a little gimpy at the end of the play. It was his ankle, Okay, it was his ankle, yeah, but he faded him. Boy, he faded him on the face. Oh man, he lost him. Trayvon said, he pushed off. Oh yeah, that's what what was that? That guy from Utah. He always says that Jordan pushed off too. But the Gatorade commercial is still the same Bryan Russell Russell, Ye, still the same. Cornerbacks say the receivers say that they hold it's just it's it's it's kind of a thing. Yeah, yeah,

it is. Is where does Samari rank in terms of the best route runners you've ever seen Isaiah because he's I mean, he is as clean of a route runner as you could potentially get to. I mean he is a top elite echelon of of what that what that is as a receiver. I think about that one. I mean, he's definitely up there in terms of the league right now. Over the overall, you know, you got guys that come to mind, like Julio, Like Julio, Like Julio is a

freaking doctor. You know, um Ridley stupid, stupid, I mean, you know so, I mean, you gotta there's a handful of guys that runs some amazing routes. Of footwork is kind of ridiculous, and it's really become a focal point in the off season. I think he used to be taking for granted that receivers just had good footwork, and now over the past years, I don't know if it's social media somebody's foot specialists that are on social media now, but you find a lot of guys going to find

these these foot specialists. I mean, even Zeke this offseason. That's why his footworking proved. He found somebody who who works specifically on things that he that he wasn't naturally good at, so um people are taking a lot more seriously now. But in terms of just his experience and where he stands in the league right now, I think you have to put him in the top five that can see top five, maybe guys like Justin Jefferson in there as well as a young guy Fonte Adams. Got

to put him up there, way up there. There's a lot of good, really good receivers in his league, and Amari takes so much pride in it too. You know. I think he talked about something last week how he's a quiet guy and he doesn't like how people think it. It translates, oh, he doesn't care. You know. He takes

offense to that. And if you listen to him talk about running routes, like in the locker room before when we could go in the locker room before COVID, he would talk about running routes like like it's art, like it's painting on a canvas or something like he loves it more than anything. And so he just takes a lot of pride in it and it shows for sure. And you saw that in the Heart Knocks episode as well.

I mean one on one with Ceedee Lamb and showing him exactly how to get up off the Linus scrimmage, how to kind of fake one way go to the other way, I mean, and Cede was soaking it all in if you're going to get a master class and running round. So Marie Cooper is the one that you want teaching and I know him just a physical aspect, I mean, the mental side of what he was coaching CD on. You know, he was teaching CD this is what they're thinking, right, They naturally have an instinct to

do this right. So these are the things that you have to take into consideration when you're running your releases. So it's not only the physical side of his helping CD's physical approach to the line of scrimmage, but it's also the mental and that's what's going to be a huge leap in CD's development. And Isaia, I'm sure you can speak to this being in film study and you're sitting there, you're going over the seven H sevens and one on ones and you're with that clicker in your hand.

You can slow that thing down and see what Amark Cooper is doing. So that's in the DV room that's in the word wide receiving rooms. They see what number nineteen is doing out there. There's there's no replacement to having to having a respective veteran receiver teaching you not only you know how to run routes right and some of the some of the savvy moves, you know, the end of the outs, to releases, all that stuff, but

also your mental approach. And like I can remember my time when I was learning from Teo or you know, Patrick Crayton or Terry Glenn or even when I went to New England, I was learning from Randy Moss and Westwoker, Like these dudes can run some routes now, and just to watch how they how they were already ahead of the game, just by how guys lined up right when they when they line up in the line of scrimmage. There was times where Westwood, Westwood freaking change our release.

We're supposed to have a certain release, and he would put himself in motion just to gain leverage come back, and on his way back from motion, he would tell me to take a different release than I was supposed to be taking based upon are you know the way the play was drawn up? And I would literally be looking over my show, like, what did he just did? He just tell me to go out and I would do it. Obviously, I'm not going to question West and

I would run it. And he would kill the person on a route, not only not because of what he physically did, but because of what our alignment and leverage and all those different things. Just the little adjustments of those tweaks is just it's amazing to have somebody who understands the game at that level and it makes it makes everybody around him better as a whole. I mean, you mentioned having those conversations in the wide receiver room or great and ensure all the young wide receivers are

going to learn from that. Michael Gallup has certainly picked up some things from playing with Amari Cooper. But then you look across at the dB room and we were talking about Treyvon Diggs earlier. His brother is a top five potential route runner in the NFL. So having both Stefon Diggs to learn from and Mary Cooper to learn from, and then you got the athleticism to go up against

the guy like Ceedee Lamb. I mean, that's why treyvon Diggs hass tough, because you know what you mentioned Stefon Diggs, and automatically, I'm like, Wow, the top five just got a lot more crowded. But Stefon Diggs is probably one of these the greatest route run is there is in the game right now. We just want to put him

up there. But you know, I value everything that you're talking about about that veteran leadership, and also I love the fact that CD understands that and realize that he has this this tree of wisdom to to go to to talk about what's happening in game and just him tapping into that I think will make the difference on this offense and especially making the difference in this wide receiver room. Yeah, another thing that stuck out about Hard

Knocks last night. It was a couple of seconds after Amari Cooper and Cede Lamb were talking how about Cede Lamb, I'm talking smack with with Michael Parsons a little bit. That was fun to watch. I mean, those are two young guys, Rob that you want to show that edge. I mean, that's one of the big things that the Cowboys needed in the off season was an edge, a little nastiness, and even Michael Parsons as a rookie coming

in and showing that off was good to see. Tank was asked about kind of his impact in the room as a rookie coming in, and he said, yeah, he talks a lot of s, so he does. I mean, you can see it on hard knocks and it's I think. I think that's good. You know, as long as he's into his assignments and trying to learn and pick everything up, which everything we've heard is that he does that, and

he's doing it really well. You're right. He brings kind of that edge, and he brings speed four three, two hundred fifty pounds running a for three, and he's physical. That's like the biggest things this defense wanted. They wanted to get faster and more physical and maybe have more of that edge. And he brings all those three things. As the twelfth pick in the draft, Yeah, CD lead that man alone. But when you think about the best linebackers in history, they all most of them had an edge,

most of them talked a little bit. Ray Lewis Ray Ray Ray, I mean who who mean who who else would you put up there? I mean, you think about some of the quiet guys, you know, Willis and Wagner, those guys don't talkhot Matthews, Clay Clay talked. I thought, yeah, Clay talker. Locker probably did. Mike Singletary. Singletary just looked at you with his eyes. His eyes talked, sick of bears.

His eyes talked right. So when you start thinking about some of these these these really good linebackers in the history of the NFL, majority of them had a little bit of an edge. You know, you are even talking about Harrison from freaking from Pittsburgh. Charles is scared of crap at him, you know, like, yes, we had yes, Yes, you want to you want to know where those guys around on the field. No, and you want im For me?

I want my linebacker just a touch crate. I wanted to be touched, a little little little nut loose, a little touched, not all the way crazy, but just touched a little bit. Yeah. And Mica he's man, He's a phenomenal, phenomenal kid. And you can see his personality in his interviews. So, I mean, look, it's gonna be a seventeen game season. We're getting the sample size of him in the preseason,

and now we're seeing him on hard knocks. Now we're gonna we're gonna get into hard knocks because there's a lot. You know, I watched it and I had my popcorn O. I loved it. Well, yeah, tell me about it. What you think. Did you see the drone shot? First of all, Oh my gosh, that's awesome. Did y'all see the feel the Dreams game between the White Side? Yeah, it's like they saw that on Fox, which is really cool, Like yeah, through the house and stuffing, and they're like, I see

that and I raised you the star. It was incredible. That's amazing. And just getting calls from friends saying, man, that is sick to building. This is sick, and I'm like, yeah, I don't even know the half man this is set. But it didn't even show at all. No, it didn't. And you know, I'm just gonna say my favorite part was Jerry on the helicopter. Jerry on the helicopter was my favorite part. When the guy says, hey, is it okay?

So we gotta go back and pick up Steven and he says it He's just like, yeah, sure, no problem, you know, no problems going back and pick him up. I guess we're just gonna start the day by Effano, and it was just it was hilarious because it just showed that I mean, you look at Jerry Jones, the billion there, the team on, He's a dad and he's gonna talk a bit this there his kids no matter what. I just love that because I'd be the same way about my son. You know, he's just gonna start the

day by missing it a kid. That's that's pretty funny. It was weird the other day when we had the conversation with Jerry on the sideline for pregame and then Stephen came in a couple of seconds later. I was kind of pitching a question to Stephen and I was like, I asked your father this a couple of moments ago, and in my head, I was like, I don't know if I've ever like really said that out loud, like it's such like a business family, this is your father,

but it is his father. And it was like, I don't know if I've ever really said it that way before. It was kind of interesting, but that that that one also reminded me of That was the fact that he was like, yeah, well let's just let me throw a jab at him here and there, Isaiah, you get to watch it. Yeah, I'm I'm actually watching it right now. The drone shot, I mean they must have had on the goggles, a little FPV goggles because this is this.

I mean, that was ridiculous. Nuts, that's ridiculous. I have a drone and yeah, I would have been I would have could you have phone through the car? I wouldn't have got that far. I wouldn't got that far. But you know, you know, a little huddle, a little you know, a little tinfoil huddle. I would have, Yeah, would Yeah, insurance policy. Shout out to Danny Serek and in our crew that when you first go first one in through the Ford Center man Danny Shine and little cameo superstar

about Jonathan Jackson talk about a cameo, talk about a superstar. Yeah, guys talking smacked Dack Zeke. He don't ask me to play anymore. He is all your money. He's not gonna be here in like two weeks. He's gonna do to Hollywood. He'll be Jonathan Jackson Wood. You know what was so I think about that story is that the lineage of his family that's worked within the organization that is crazy fourth generation. I did know that that is new about nuts.

Dad was here for many years, but I great grandfather. Yeah, that is uncle. They think this is nuts, man. I think that's phenomenal. When Dak said he's he's cowboy Royalty, well, I think kind of is. And one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. I mean, there's not a person now I gotta pay him in spades. And now's just gotta have here you go, there's gotta have We just do that live for Friday's Talking show. How about that? Just anybody else space, Uh, it's been a while, but yeah,

you know, I threw that out there. Anyone, come on, it's okay. Uh, Robs, were your thoughts of Hard Knocks anything you learn? I didn't see all of it, Okay, I kind of I kind of zipped around. And they're focusing on long shots to make the team these last couple episodes, Isaac Allercon and and um yes, and and I gotta brush up a little bit, um and mister Hardy too. And I mean, I think there's people that want to see maybe more a Jerry, you know, or

more more of some of the stars. But this is this is what they This is Hard Knocks formula man that they want to follow some of the long shots, and then they'll kind of circle back to a Micah Parsons or Jerry Jones and and uh and try to give everybody. I mean, I think we're so close to it that maybe we don't. I think the average fan that doesn't get to see any of this stuff is just blown away by any of it. You know, there's some good stories out there. I've enjoyed it. Yeah, I

mean it's been an inside look. It's been something fun to look at for the for fans at home. And it'sn't like you said something that they don't normally would get to see you. It's stuff that we don't even normally get to see. We would have no idea that Joquant Hardy lost the contact when he dropped that football on the out route. How many had no idea? And he was like I can't see He's like, oh, man,

like I dropped the contact. I like skip Pete in there as well, kind of at the running back table saying dude, if you lose a contact, don't try and be a hero and stay in the game. Get out of the game. Are you kidding me? How can you play at see? How can you play running back and not and have goggles not know who Eric Dickerson is, Like, that's that's secretly, that's a great question. I don't know how. It's like playing basketball and I know who the horse

green is? There you go or Bill cart Right. The thing I relate to the most is Dak's fear of haunted houses. That's me too. Yeah, that was kind of I've been the one in my life and I'll never go back. Really we're going, We're just I hate him too, but I just do that. I wanted to go to the scariest one, so the scariest do it? Talking nation out there, talking nation. If you guys have any suggestions in terms of where our crew should go for the hunted house, the scariest hunt of house you can find,

not the ones. We have to sign the waivers and we're not doing aning of that crazy because I swing up people. If you guys have a suggestion, you send it in and we're going, Hey, we're there with me. You walk behind me. Okay, you guys tell us how it goes, because this is going. Heck. That's the thing is I hate him the street I did. I don't. I didn't grow up in a hunted house every day, was haunted every day. I don't go back. I'm starting

to question, your sweetness. You better question because when I moved that the hood, I moved out. All right, we're gonna take the chainsaw. Really had a chainsaw. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't volunteer for it. Okay, Kyle, I'm waiting, Okay, I mean I would do it. I think it'd be fun, even though I hate haunted houses as well. You're going with

a cbeh chi. All right. When we come back here on Talking Cowboys, we're gonna start with the excuse me, We're gonna start looking ahead to winners and losers throughout training camp and also practices going on. Right now, what do we expect heading into the Jacksonville game when we returned here on Talking Cowboys. Hi, I'm click tillison with you. Not a agging turf before you can park yourself in front of the game, Park yourself in a John Dear

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for everyone. Restrictions apply. Is it att dot com for details to Talking Cowboys. The final Cowboys preseason game is this Sunday, August twenty ninth at AT and T Stadium. Don't miss your last chance to see the Cowboys prepare for the twenty twenty one season. A limited number of single game tickets are on sale now get yours today and Dallas Cowboys dot com slash tickets. And we started off the show with good news and bad news, right, Yeah, I got a little more bad news. Reports that Rico

Dawdle is headed to IR second. You're running back from what apparently it's a hip injury, and that would mean he's done for the season, I believe. Yeah, that really is bad. Like him, he was having a good can he was having a heck of a Yeah, he was running the heck out the ball in preseason. That sucks Kyle speechless again second time of the show. Well, because I really liked Rico. I think I liked him as

a special team's potential. I liked him as a third running back, running back, a receiver out of the backfield. He could have done a lot of different things for that. That running back room has been hit. Yeah, both of those losses this year, those are those are major. Yeah, let's just keep those first two guys healthy for sure moving the yard. Yeah, that's a that's a bummer man. Yeah, because after that, like you said, it's taking a bit

of a hit. So there you go, Rico Dowdle expected to go to I R and take a little bit of time. That's it. That's it for you. Yeah, Okay, I'll take us home. So you know what, I'm gonna take the second part out of the initial teas that I had. We were gonna do winners and Losers of training camp. So far, let's just do winners of training camp. And I think, oh, I skewed it too much. Yeah, we got some, we got some. We got some losers though. Okay, that's fine, we can still do it. Just let's take

it easy on the losers. Okay, Okay, you want to go first, sure, fine, Okay, winners and losers of training camp. So my winner and loser or my album start with my loser of training Camp. I'm gonna put my man Jaylen Smith on the losing category of training camp. And the reason I say this is because obviously Jalen fighting back from drop foot, all of that miraculous has been productive except for last year and look, had one hundred

and fifty tackles, finished top five in the league. However, they drafted in Michael Parsons in what I consider to be the and you don't have an Apple, so the iOS upgrade. Basically, it's like your phone starts doing things you never thought it could do. You see Michael Parsons out there doing things from a linebacker standpoint that you never thought you would see a linebacker do. In the multiple ways that they play him. I just believe that his speed in all of that for Jalen has got

to have him taking a little bit of back. Winner in training camp has to be my guy. Kennedy, I think I think he's come out on time, but I think he's shown his worth. And I also think that because of his production, it's making the it's making a lot of hard decisions for the guys that are trying to put this fifty three together. So if I'm gonna go winners and losers, Mary's Kennedy and as the winner and Jalen Smith as a loser, that's really good. Isaiah.

On the losing side, I'm going with Jordan Lewis. I'm going to Geordan Lewis. I think that we've heard a lot about the competition revolving around him, haven't really heard his name much at all in regards to making plays, having good practices, having an impact, and for the amount of money that they're paying him, I think he kind

of wants to be in some of those conversations. So I think he's putting himself in a very very tricky situation as he's cut these fifty three man cuts come around um, whether it comes in the form of trade or cut. I think he's put himself in that conversation. Um, so he's the loser. In my eyes. I think the winner is Kean O'Neill. I think he came in with question marks regarding does he fit right? Obviously he knows the system, but does he fit in this in this defense?

Is he gonna be safety? Is he gonna be lining back? Or is he healthy? Can he play right? Can he be productive? Is he going to be the leader that we expect him to be? And I think he's checked all those boxes, starting with the losing side, not calling anybody a loser, just saying that it's not going in there, Rob offices upstairs. There you go, quarter office. This got my name on it. Chauncey Golston and Josh Ball two draft picks who have really not been able to practice

at all. I mean, Gholston gets hurt in the conditioning run before camp starts, and I think he's getting closer, but it's tough because he's trying to earn playing time in that defensive line rotation. Josh Ball was supposed to compete for the swing tackle job. That's just not realistic at this point. So that's that's tough when you're a rookie coming in. I think they're both gonna make the team, but to play and be impactful your rookie year, I think that's gonna be tough winner. And I'll go with

the rookies again. Osa Dicky Zua to me has been really, really good, and he just seems to get more active upfront with that inside rush and it makes me feel better about the defensive tackle depth without Neville gotmore for a few weeks. I mean, I know they're they're inexperience there to a large degree, but if he can keep this up, he's got a chance to be, you know, part of this rotation. Maybe start, if not start, you know, be a guy who plays a lot of snaps and

maybe can be productive for him while year long. I like all of the three or I guess each of the guys that you guys gave so, I mean Rob gave a couple there, but ultimately six to eight guys that you just named, I would put all of those in the exact categories that you had. A man, I would say, and this is kind of a stretch, but I'm trying to keep it, keep it different. But Treyvon Diggs I think is a winner to me from what he's done throughout camp, because last year there were still

questions around what Treyvon Diggs could do. We've talked about it on this show, specifically Isaiah and whether or not he can be your top corner. And I think the latter part of last year into the offseason, the expectations where, hey, can he look like your top corner? Well, guess what. We're through the preseason and he is undoubtedly the top corner on the roster and he's going to be that

going into the year. Of course, he's not practicing today because of the non COVID illness, and he added a little banged up ankle at the end of the game or into practice yesterday. But I still think he is a winner throughout camp. The loser staying on the defensive side of things is Terrell Basham, and it's along the same lines of what Rob said about the two rookies is he comes in as a guy that's in a crowded edge rusher room with guys like of course Randy

Gregory to Marcus Lawrence. But now Dorrence Armstrong's playing well. Bradley and I is making a case for himself. Even Chauncey Golston, who is still a rookie at least at the moment, has a spot on this roster. Terrell Basham was brought in on a two year deal to say hey, you you are the edge rusher depth and he hasn't been able to work his way back onto the field ever since suffering the ankle injury. So I think he's

kind of a loser in terms of training camp. Like I said, not calling in, or like Rob said, no, your cube's upstairs. Well Rob moved, he moved away from me. Oh you got a bigger one, Yeah he did. It's bigger. You got a office? I do not have you get You got the corner office up We've been a party of p office. Let's go. Do you guys have cubes? Yeah? I don't. I mean you don't have a cube? Bye by association. So just you guys, have you have a cube to go sit down in? Wow? Right, it has

your name on it? I wait three time? Speechiless isn't that what? What what mind is? Yours? Yours is mind? Is that how it goes when you're married? This is yeah, it says Harrison on the side, doesn't it. That's crazy. Let me ask you this question. If you went and set in that cube, would anybody kick you out? Yes, yes they would, Yes, they would absolutely. Oh goodness, I'm sorry. I can't believe you, guys. Shot. I didn't say it

that shot. You're thinking. Unbelievable, unbelievable. All right, we've got to find cubes for Sanquin. Now, I guess thank this is my cube. Okay, yeah, man, this is my cube. There's one member of this crew who has an office of sorts, and he's he's the next door, right, Yeah, so that's what y'all need to be Jones and all not. He's the memoi though he's the man. He's not even conversation as he's always had an office. He needs one talk about modifying the door. Oh goodness, what have we seen?

We didn't get to talk about it on Monday a little bit, but kind of going along the same lines as winners of training camp and he needed a really good preseason. But Jabrill Cox, Jabrill Cox, met I'm trying to I'm trying to push this thing around. No, no, no, it's okay. I wasn't even trying to be funny. I'll this series. I think that's that's what made it worse. It's true, that's what made it worse. But to your point, Jabrill Cox, Jabrill Cox, last week he showed up. Now,

last two weeks he showed up. I think last week he really showed up. I think they obviously had the defense bought out, and he showed his range. And I think that's what everybody wanted to see. They want to see can he cover? Obviously, they know he could run around, he could hit. They want to see it can he

cover somebody? And I think he was running around and hitting people with reckless abandonment, and that's what you want to see as we talk about culture in character this defense, I think he was a great reflection of that linebacker snaps Week one through weeks seventeen gonna be very very interesting, very interested to see how those rotations got a roll, right, Yeah, how their snaps are gonna be dispersed. I think there's gonna be some very frustrated guys on that side of

the ball, at that second level. I think, you know, I mean, heck, I'm obviously as a defensive player, you want to get in there and you want to you want to be in the game. You don't want to come out. And defensive lineman, they know, they cycle in and out. Corner, you know, a nickel defense, a back, they cycle in and out. Everybody else. You're you're you're in the game, right, You're in the game. And as a linebacker, you don't want to come out that rotation.

You don't want to come out of the game at all. So the guys are gonna be in for a snap or two and then they're gonna roll those guys about it there and some other guys are gonna come in and it's gonna be very hard. They're gonna they're gonna you're gonna hear them say it was hard for me to catch my flow. It was hard for me to to to get the pace of the game. And it really gets settled in. I think we're gonna hear that. I'm gonna project you. You're gonna build those excuses in.

I mean, I'm throwing him in. Now, you're gonna hear it. I tell you what I don't want to see come out, and that's number eleven. And if you if he's coming out, you're just giving him a blow to go back in. You know, called time out to get it's just not I mean, but going back to Jabril Cox, um just one of those names that a lot of people were high up on, I think getting started in the league. Coming into OTAs Uh, people didn't think that they saw

the spark there from number forty eight. But as training camp progresses, he's had some preseason games under this belt. You're seeing him do great things and special teams and you always talk about this, a guy's path to getting playing time is getting those special teams reps. He's done really good things with that. But when you look at this season, preseason, all the way through, all of these

guys are gonna play. Every last one of these guys are gonna play because involved but the length of the season and just the way I mean, Jesse Holley's favorite word is football is fluid, you know, so things are always gonna happen, and these guys are gonna get an opportunity to shine. And for Jabril Cox, it's like, if he can just kind of settle into a role defensively, I think that may just building that competition and culture that we're talking about. It may spell the end for

the wolf Hunter. I don't know. I'm just basically throwing that out there that he's kind of in a very peculiar situation right now. I just just picture this. It's third and eleven, right, third and eleven. You take vander esh off the field, you take Jalen Smith off the field, you put in Keian O'Neil, You put in Michael Parsons, and you put in Dog and Jabril Cox, and you got you got these guys to be able to cover that cover the underneath. These guys are gonna be roaming

and running around like Madman is. That is going to be crazy. But that's the NFL. I mean, everybody's playing that nickel true goodness. I mean, but they're not They're not small, you know. That's what I'm saying. Like it's one thing if you're swapping them out like for for small guys. These guys are not small. That's the thing about Kano Neil. He looks like a linebacker. Yeah he's a lineback. I know he's been a safety, but he looks like that boy's a lineback. Ways, I don't know

what he's two twenty five. He's a lightist, right, two twenty five, And you've got your Bill Cox two thirty three and you got Michael Parsons. I mean Layton Vanderesh is like, what, yeah, two fifty I mean he's a big guy. Vanderesh and Smith are both top heavy. Sure this, I mean that's what they are. They're top heavy. They're downhill guys. That's what they are. They might not want to hear that, but they are. Feel the gaps, come forward, sitting in the box, go sideways five yards, and that's

what we do. And these other guys they have range. Kind of an addition to your point of the third and eleven hypothetical, I mean, we threw out the hypothetical Monday with the quarterbacks of if there's no Dak Prescott and these three year in the game, do you feel comfortable? The resounding answer was no. If if Layton Vanderesh and Jalen Smith are not in the game and any of those three guys are in the game instead, do you

feel comfortable? Yes, I mean I feel better, yes, especially based off of what they've done last in the past couple of years in terms of linebacker depth, I feel much much better. There's there's only a handful of positions on this team right now that I don't feel comfortable with the number two guy or the number two rotation tackle that yeah, just just oh yeah, center, especially top yeah, center, especially um quarterback, quarterback um and then um, what was

another one I had? I don't think that's it about safety? Feel better, feel better about safety, safety, corner, defensive line, tight end, tackle, Maybe I feel okay with that right now too. I'm okay especially things just I think it's a thing is specifically at the offensive tackle, center, and quarterback. That's it. Everywhere else I'm okay with our number two. We talk about those three positions so much. Yeah, yeah,

defensively and I just feel like defensive line. I like how Michaelcarthy said this is he's never seen a flip like this with from one group to another. How the defense has it's much more or improve And I think it's because of the play of the defensive line. You got to feel better about these guys in preseason getting more pressure on the quarterback and stunting that they're doing in all of that is a boy product of Dan

Quinn's influence. And you know, we go back to last year and Mike Nolan and bless his heart, man, because he didn't have preseason, he didn't have a way to implement and just guys just look like hot garbage. But I mean if you had Michael Parsons behind dune Terry Poe, I don't think he would be Why did you just do that? I gave you a bad visual, but maybe you would be talking about Parson's that way because of

because of it. I just think that the d line is doing so much better of a job of keeping these keeping these these guys lanes open to shooting mic tackle, So the defense is working efficiently. But Rob, what's the outlook on Tristan Hill right now? Well, I mean to this point, he doesn't sound like it's imminent that he's coming off pop so very well could be he's starting the year there, which would mean I think a minimum of six weeks six weeks ago, so he's making progress

and there's still time. But you know, unless we hear something differently that that looks like that could happen. So and you know, and and Gholston, we'll see if he's in that group too, or if you can get back before then lots of guys trying to come back. Let's in the show. On a good note, guy, there was a guy who passed his physical today and has been activated off of the publist. And he's the kicker, Greg sir line, what he wouldn't win? Like, he's actually like

doing paper the paper football. Yeah, like paper football. There we go. But yeah, Greg sir line is gonna be activated off a puplist And McCarthy said he will be kicking, yes, so oh he he needs to Sunday they don't have another kicker, so I guess somebody yesterday he's gonna kick. Wow, thanks coach. I don't think Mike's in the best mood right now. He's dealing with a lot of crap. I don't blame him. I don't blame him. Well, fully, everybody listening at home has been in a good mood over

the course of the last hour. Hope you learned something, but that's going to do it for us here on Talking Cowboys. For everybody involved with Chris Beam in the back, We've got Heck Harrison, Rob Phillips, I sayah, stand back, I'm Kyle Yeman's We'll see you Friday. It's saying with your chest Friday on Talking Cowboys is presented by Tostitos. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.