Talkin' Cowboys: Trouble With The Running Game? - podcast episode cover

Talkin' Cowboys: Trouble With The Running Game?

Oct 05, 201759 min
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Episode description

Talkin' Cowboys look further into the lack of production from the running game through 4 weeks.

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Transcript

Speaker 1

This he is Talking Cowboys Screaming live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the official Dallas Cowboys as by now your hosts Mickey Spagnola, Brian brought us, Taylor Stern and Rob Phillips. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Talking Cowboys Always, joined by Mickey, Rob Brian myself in the SUBC Mortgage Studio.

So much to talk about. The Cowboys had their first practice yesterday as they get ready to face the Packers on Sunday, and there's a lot to talk about, a lot of injuries, unfortunately, and a lot of people that we just have a question marks by. Yeah, so let's get right into it. Unfortunately, yesterday we spent most of the first segment talking about who was gonna be the guy that they removed from the roster to make room

for David Irving. Right. Unfortunately, that decision might have already been made for us with Charles Tapper injuring his foot with the fifth metatarsal break and he's expected out eight to ten weeks, as coach Garrett said today, So there you guys have it. I mean, Mickey was asking to play him, and I agreed with Mickey. I think Mickey was absolutely right about Charles Tapper. Charles Tapper deserved an

opportunity to go and see if he can rush the passer. Yeah, and unfortunately though, you know, he he he cannot catch. And it's gonna sound terrible, but a break he really can't. Two seasons in the league derailed by injuries. Even if he can come back later this year, how much back to the break as time as he lost. You know, breaks very good. Can't we get it because he's back to the break? Yeah? Yeah, you see what I did there? Yeah? And the break? Right? Yeah, no, you got me? You

got me? That's good. I mean yeah, I mean you got me. Yeah. I feel like though that to me, that and coach Garrett said it once again guys taking the opportunity to earn their right to be part of the forty six. And I think, you know, talking to some people about Tapper and practice and what he'd done, they felt like that, hey, maybe he does deserve a shot. And then here he is. You know, I said, when

does happen? He always getting reps with the one boom next to you know, his foot gets stepped on, and you know it's a it's just it's a break that you know, that he's worked really really hard to get back and and you know you had hope for him and the OTAs and the mini camps, and then you get through the preseason and you see that edge ability. I see what Mickey's talking about with him. Yeah, if if no one wants to take that right in job, let let him take that right in job. See what

you got right there. And he was within like five to ten minutes of finishing that practice. Hurt that part, it was almost it was the horrible. It was almost over when he came limping off, and it is horrible. Then after they checked it, they he left the locker room in a big old boot and crutches, and it brought back memories from about ten years ago when I did the same thing. Yeah, it's such a small bone and it's just it is. It's it's real thin, but

it's delicate. And how many have we seen here over the last three years? Right, A lot of it though going on when you have these linemen especially, and you know, people getting their feet stepped on or the planting it snaps or you know, there's what we had. We've had Malik Collins, what was Lawrence Laurence Lawrence yeah, in the office, Lawrence, before that in training camp, wasn't it Yeah on the edge rush there and then there was someone else in this past offseason did it early, did it a few

years ago. But it wasn't necessarily the metatarsal kind of it's just and although when they do surgery and we'll find out more on Friday when they finished the surgery. That supposedly, when you do surgery on it, you have a chance to get back sooner or at least that's what they told me, instead of just letting the naturally naturally healed. And I was told, if you were an athlete, we'd do surgery and you'd be back in sixty eight weeks. Right,

you are an athlete, Ma, No, yourself. Well, let's put it this way. My my living didn't depend on my foot. Yeah. Well, if he's out a couple months, you know, technically he could return. I would think they would place him on injured reserve. Now they will, Yeah, they will, rob Yeah, they will later this week. That I mean, it's always we always wonder what they're gonna do with roster spots, and then here you go, David Irving. They started to

take care of themselves. I know, we all get Twitter questions about that, and three four weeks ago people were like, well, how do you get David Irving? And you just kind of say it does answer itself. Attrition is very tough in this league, and it's tough on personnel guys to keep up with it. You know, let's do the math for they've played four games. Four games, so one week, say it's eight one week week is the bye, right, so you gotta go seven more weeks. So that's that's

that's eleven to twelve games. Yeah, so the last month of this, it might, it might be you might and you might need him in December, you might it might be where all sudden attrition takes over again and you know you have a body like is that you really unproven as is, but that's what Or maybe somebody finally wakes up at right defensive end and they say, okay, you just stay on ir we'll come back again. Fight another year. Yeah, poor guy, because you never know who

else you're gonna get hurt. Absolutely, you might have to because you get to bring two back though, right right, they changed it. You get to bring two guys. They didn't change it. They did, and so you know, let's talk about attrition. Obviously, the Cowboys have a lot of guys that people have been keeping eyes on, but so do the Packers. Will get to them after we get to the Cowboys one and unfortunately guys, a lot of people were more full in practice, which gives hope. Nolan

Carroll being one of those guys at Woozier. You know, then you look at Chads Green, he was full, and of course Anthony Hitchens, who spoke yesterday in the locker room about coming back. But then there were a few names that were added to this that we have to talk about. You know. Of course, Shaunley did not practice yesterday with the hamstring. Stephen Pia is still out now, Tyron Smith, Ezekiel Elliott, Cavon Frasier, and a couple other guys.

Their names were added. Not to worry now Tyron Smith, coach Garrett said, it's back tightness. Don't expect him to practice at all today. Hopefully does more tomorrow Friday practice. You know, Lyle Collins the ankle, he was still full, but you know, just keep an eye on that. Zeke got hit in the chest and during the game on Sunday was still able to practice talk a lot in the locker room. Gave you guys a lot of insight into that. And then Cavon Frasier the name. He's kind

of been dealing with that in Chaz greenback. So where do you want to start now? Where did you give the outside to Pia Stephen Pia. I mean it's been two weeks. He hasn't practice. We talked yesterday, didn't we Yeah, we did. He's not very effective in the game now he's still not practicing. That was my spot. That's why that's why we were trying to play ahead of of

whose spot would you take? Maybe you could put him on the injured reserve and you have David Irving coming back and you need somebody there right so I think that they might be time to rest him and not do anything now with Nolan Carroll, yes, he got in a practice, but they got to that concussion protocol. You know, you're never really out of it. They keep checking you. Right now. This is a it's a full practice yesterday. Now, how does he feel today? How can he can he

get through? And I think that'll be significant to see if he can play or not. It looks like a Woozier should be ready to go. Yes, so that would help them out that about that about and talk about the all pro tacle who is not practicing Yes, Uh, he was just covering his bases until he got the Yeah, Tyrn Smith, Um, they're gonna give him a rest day to day. Sure, I think they feel like he'll go. I mean, he's pretty tough. He's played through this before. Right.

We saw that with him last year though, didn't we Mickey where they gave him a Wednesday day like the romany day that just one day a week. They just felt a time to manage, you had to manage. I when I saw him on the injury report yesterday, that's the first thing I thought about, Okay, we're now a month into the season, let's start with the rest days. Who were going to get rest days to? You know that that's the one that back. It's not easy to you know, it's it's it's him, it's pain tolerance, it's

all that he's got to. You know, he's he's play, he'll play through it. But I think we're now going to start seeing every Wednesday for sure that Tyrant Smith is going to be on the injury report is a back and I don't think he's going to practice those days. We saw this in camp too. They gave him a couple of days off, let it calm down a little bit,

and he was back on the field. You gotta point out though, last season he missed two games with the back, so it's something that has bothered him for years now technically, and Chaz Green was the guy who stepped in at left tackle last year, did a nice job. Byron Bell is an option there as a swing tackle candidate too. Would you rather eighty percent of Tyrant Smith or Byron Bell at left tackle going against Matthews? Let me yeah. Let me ask you this though, if you would you

think about this? If if Chaz Green is a full and we've seen Chads Green have some and say he doesn't start at left guard, would you play? Would you if you had to play Chaz Green? Would you feel better about him playing as that left tackle instead of Byron Bell Mickey? And then move at So the question is, yeah, I'm trying to get there. How do you feel about

Jonathan Cooper right? How do you feel about John? Feel like Chaz at guard and Byron Bell left tackle is better than then moving Chazz out there and exposing yourself at the left guards. I mean, your left side is already pretty much the way it is. But we have seen better success with Chaz Green playing as the left tackle in games, in games we have now he's done okay as a guard. I don't think he's been terrible.

He's had his moments, but I don't think he's had as many stressful moments as say, what we've seen with Jonathan Cooper Man. I feel like this is another draft you're going to see a lineman go in the first round for the Dallas Cowboys. You know what, probably I would will get second or third. Yeah, we'll get there. But what I'm just saying, though, is that I think this was something that they just relied on. They were

comfortable with knowing that their O line was good. You know, yes, Tyren Smith has battled injuries, but for a majority, that was kind of your your backburner. Ida. I just feel like, remember, you can't have five first round picks on your offense. I would like that, we would try. You would love it, but what would you do with the corner in the corner defensively? But to our point, yeah, so I said, so that way, you didn't five but you didn't say that.

But no, I said you can't have five? Yeah, he said draft one, okay, and then we'd have five in my fantasy draft over here? But what about that? Who do you feel better about? If you if Dallas had to go into a game, Where do you feel better about Jonathan Cooper playing left guard or or Bell Bell? Bell's played in the league? I don't know. That's terrible

about it. Probably better than what Jonathan Cooper's play. I think ideally you wouldn't want to have to change two spots like they'd have to be doing in that situation in the last two weeks and have to move a guy from one side. What do you think I think Tyrn Smith plays? No, No, I do I do? But if it comes if if yeah, I'm saying if we Okay, Now we're in that situation where it's back. What if we wake up over there our fine Omni hotel, wake up in the morning and all of a sudden, it's like, whoa,

what just happened? You know, we're now starting to think about that move all Collins over there. I don't know, Rob you think that Chaz Green, even though he's full, he's gonna be full. It sounds like he's okay this week. He's good. Yeah, it was just Situs, right, they can treat that. You can wonder if that was at Aaron donald injury sits play an donaldus again. Once again we're talking about a key matchup though defensively Clay Matthews, Mod Brooks, Oh,

no doubt. That's the strength of the Packers front seven out. Nice to have Tyrn Smith available, and I do agree with these guys. I think you give him this day. Odds are he should be able to go, but you gotta keep keep on top of it. This week and

this was the same time of last year. I know there's different team, different things, but he did get kind of nicked up in the San Francisco game, actually didn't play in the San Francisco game, right right, there's no Tyron Smith, no Dez no Romo knows you guys, Scandrick. But then he was able to have that by wee kind of come back. And then it was later in the season that it flared up again. So you know, hopefully he's a very tough guy. Yeah, there's no denying

that now. Shaun Lee of course didn't practice today. What is everyone expecting for him to do today and tomorrow and practice didn't sound like unlike anything today. What Jason said was hopefully as the week goes on. So he didn't say, oh, he's practicing today, so maybe something Friday if he doesn't go today. He basically said, kind of what we've been talking about on the show. You want to give him every chance to play. He's a veteran.

There's no hard and fast rule of well, if he doesn't practice Friday, he's he gives the heav hoo from Brian necessarily, but you got to keep an eye on that bye week, and you got to keep an eye on that hamstring. And like I said yesterday, okay, you pull it, reaggravate it, then you're really yeah on Thanksgiving type. I'm I'm real close to far in the hev ho. I really am. I think it's less than fifty Yeah, I do too. I think I felt like that it

was you know, it's it's improved. I can't get this out. It's improved. Oh over the but you you have to again think about the winning the battle or winning the war, and the war is the season and you have to get through that. And I think that I think the head coach realizes that. He says, hey, you gotta look with your eyes and you gotta tell what's going on there. I think he trust his eyes that Anthony Hitchens is

going to help you in this football game. That's a good I think he's looking at it and seeing his eyes and saying, I don't think my all pro linebacker is going to help me this week, But I got to think about down the road. You know, this game, having Hitchens on the field will help Jalen Smith a lot, a lot, just because the fact that I think Anthony Hitchins athletically and mentally can get into a lot of situation. He could get to some balls that maybe that Justin

Durant couldn't get to. You know, he could get to some tackles that Damian Wilson didn't get to. And that's another position. You might want to keep an eye on that linebacker spot. We talk about safety, yeah, but you might want to keep an eye on that one. Will do the coaches evaluate and say, okay against though the word discipline. Todd Archer the question today and that's one of my keys. The game for the Cowboy win will

be disciplined. Are you discipline enough to play the defense, you know, not dropping coverage, not missing assignments, and Damian Wilson had too many of those. So take him off the field. Do you play Kyle Wilbur do you How do you shuffle things around so you keep guys on

the field that have that experience. Now the problem you can't do that at defensive back because you've cast a lot of Hey, we're gonna go with these young kids, and that's okay, but you know, try and limit some of the other positions that you might have some questionable players. I think if you're reading Jason on how he answered the Lee thing right, it didn't. And even though he says, well it's only sixteen games, I think having Hitchens available

minimizes APPS a little bit, the loss of lead. At least you got him out there. Now. I want Lee out there, and I want Hitchens out there. He said this last week. Oh, we can do some things that you need Sean Lee on the field. Yeah no, no, no, no, no, no, that bad. But I don't want them. I don't want them out there and then miss the rest of I agree, I agree, so they won't say that. Yeah, I'll guarantee you it's in the back of their minds. They're gonna

be other battles to fight. Yeah, and and hopefully you know, Green Bay's got some situations they're missing, Like you said,

you're gonna get Okay, I think we're gonnas. It would be nice if you had someone also, which Hitchens could do, if you trusted somebody else to play the week side, to get Jalen Smith not playing sixty snaps right game right, So maybe Hitchens and Durant at some point right in the changeup because the Packers are going to go three wide, right, no doubt, all the time, all the time, every play, most every play, So you're gonna be in nickel or dime. Yeah,

especially if they don't want to run the football. Yeah, exactly. So maybe when they go dime, you get Jalen Smith out of there and put Hitchens in. That's fair assessment right there, providing he's up. You know, it's we're sitting here thinking, Okay, this is the guy we saw in training camp and he hasn't played in seven weeks. Hitchens. Yes, I trust he's a tough guy. I just I mean

I talked about him stepping up and coming. Yeah, I just feel like that when you talk about smart athletic players, Yeah, that know how to find their way to the football and know about crossing routes behind him and stuff like. I just feel like that maybe it's not as simple as get riding a bike, but to a guy that's a veteran player, I think he understands. Yeah. Man, it was so interesting. You know, Mickey has his Legend Show in Cowboys Club every Wednesday and evening six pm, seven pm,

seven pm Central Time. Of course it's great. And this morning we started playing Breakfast of Champions. We had Drew Pierson. He's been on Mickey's show a bunch, the Legend Show, but today he was talking about it and I think, Brian, maybe you asked a question or somebody did, and he was talking about last week's game and he said that what he saw mostly from Jalen Smith. Those guys you're naming Damien Wilson all the indecision, Yeah, you know, because

I like discipline. But I think another word maybe confidence. You know, do these guys have enough confidence in themselves and in the personnel out there that they can take on the Packers offense so soon the left guard that yeah, Jaitlyn needs the experience. Yes, sure he saw things in that game that you needn't do it in order dame. Yeah, Jerry Jones said it on the fan the other day. He played I think he played sixty nine snaps defensively against the ramp. He didn't take a snap off. And

this is a guy we talked about. Is he ready to play when the season starts good to go? Yeah, And so that's a lot on a rookie, much less a guy who's been in his situation. And what Jerry said was he reduce his snaps a little bit when Hitchins comes back, Lee comes back and the quality of the snaps goes up. Yeah, that's really for any rookie player. You don't want to overexpose a guy at seventy snaps. Is just that's a lot. It is a lot. And we've got so much to talk about here on Talking Cowboys.

We haven't even got into the Packers injury report. Just so much to go, So stay tuned with us. You guys can still call us numbers two, one for eight, seven to twenty one too. We will be right back in the SWBC Mortgage studio. We the entertainment loving people demand the best unlimited wireless plan ever from AT ANDT. What else do you want? Are you in a car? Maybe only AT and T offers you unlimited data with HBO included and never payoverages. Get ATNT Unlimited plus, our

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Bank of America dot com slash Military Support. Together, we can thank our troops in ways that make a real difference. Copyright twenty sixteen, Bank of America Corporation. It's bowling night with brands and you're hanging out together. Pit up us there, but you're craving something better. But they're supposed deep inside you don't know what to do. Pepper, do the same you, doctor Pepper. When you pepper, When you crave a doctor Pepper, nothing else will do. Pick up an ice cold twenty

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back by a no weggie guarantee. If you suffer a weggie and you're Tommy John's, they'll give you your money back guaranteed. Shop exclusive Cowboys underwear at Tommy john dot com for slash Cowboys for twenty percent off your order. Tommy john dot com Forward slash Cowboys. Awesome. Rob Welcome back into the SWBC Mortgage studio. We can talk about that, but we've got you talk about a lot every time. Every time it's just it's ridiculous. But love Tommy John though,

we do love Tommy John. All Right, these Packers guys, they are not free from the injury bug as well, and they've got some big guys to watch if they can make their return. When is their bye week? I'm curious is it next week as well? Or is it two weeks from now? Good question. Well, the reason I

ask is I can tell you. Yeah, the reason I ask is because they have so many guys that are kind of like could go fifty fifty type guys, and it's like maybe they're in the same situation of the Cowboys, or maybe yeah, yeah, or a couple October twenty ninths, they're bike Oh so they have keep playing? Yeah, keep playing? Three more right, two more after this one? Yeah. So the positive here is that a lot of the Cowboys were full, but on the other side, the Packers, a

lot of them were limited. So you have Davante Adams, of course, who took that horrible hit from Danny Trevathian last week. He was limited, Bakatari. I told you guys that, you know, this was kind of his game, circled to come back, still limited with the hamstring mod Brooks, who robed just brought up with the back. He was limited, Bloga their tackle ankle. Brian is giving you the old out. I think, I think. I think David Baktari is in and I think the other guy, blog the right tackle

is out. So both of them missed, both of them miss Yeah, it was crazy what they were doing last week with Office. Yeah. Now Mike Daniel's obviously a big guy to watch up. Brian wrote about it. Yes, the hip limited and I'm just gonna get through this and then we're just going to dive in on this. Devon House cornerback qua Qua quadricep. Sometimes words are hard time Montgomery, I can't believe that he was limited with more than one broken rib. Nick Perry, their linebacker, his hand, he

was limited. And now Quentin Rawlins cornerback and he was completely full. And then Joe Thomas ankle did not practice, and then Jamal Williams they're running back knee full participant. The only full participants wore Quentin and Jamal. I think limited is a very nebulous term for it is it is because you can stretch it to Yeah, okay, what did he do? Did he go out there? And stretch with the team and go through individual right and then that's it. You know, I don't think anybody really tells

the truth unlimited. You just cover yourself. You do, you cover yourself. But I'm I think there's there's a lot of key guys here. I all the two I could say, I think they're gonna be okay at the left tackle spot with Baktri David Bakti there and then but Bolaga will be out. So keep an eye on Justin McCrae. He's been the starter, or at least he started against the Bears last week. Number sixty four had a little bit of trouble out there on the edge. So keep an eye on that one. And the other one too

to keep and ion is Mike Daniels. If Mike Daniels doesn't play, that's a big loss. He's one of those guys similar to how you know with what the Rams were able to do with Aaron Donald. Guy it plays the three technique. You know, he's had some really good battles with Zack Martin. If things aren't stabilized at left guard for the Cowboys, you know, we could see him play over there. If he in fact, he's in the game, so you know the teams will see that as the

weak link put their best guys over there. So do you really expected Vante Adams in time Montgomery to be playing in this game. I know they played their last game was last Thursday against the Bears with ten days rest, But I mean that would be I would be more surprised of I would be more surprised if Adams than

I would the other one. You think Montgomery will play with that, especially now that they've got Jamal Williams listed as full You know what this The one thing that that mctgomery has shown me is if you're a wide receiver and they're making you a running back, you've got some toughness. Now, this might be one of those things. Hey, another week will help him to get more rest, especially too much hit games left until they're exactly heal up

a little bit more. But I would I would think that I would think that maybe now he came out. Initially it was kind of like I'm really not sure, and then all of a sudden, maybe somebody got to him and said, whoa, whoa, don't do that. Be positive, be positive about coming back so they don't get a gauge. But he's a really tough guy. I mean, to do what he did from Stanford to the Packers, go from wide receiver to running back, I think that says a

lot about him. He's effective carrying the football. The numbers don't always show it, but you know, he's one of those guys that does give them a little bit of a running game. And when Rogers isn't throwing it all these place, he's their second leading receiver quietly too. Yeah, eighteen catches. Davante Adams kind of became a go to guy for Rogers last year. So he's a guy really

to keep an eye on as well. Because you you add him in a mix with Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb and you talk about the Cowboys young secondary, that's a tall task covering all those guys. Well, they've had problems with him before. Yeah, remember the twenty fourteen playoff game, right, he was the guy that really hurt him. Yeah. I can't imagine that you could play running back with a flak jacket on because he got to hold the ball. Yeah,

he's got to wear something. Sure, it's got multiple rib fraction sure, and you know you can't really shoot it up. I mean, I guess you can. I mean, didn't Romo do something similar and then go out there and play. But you're the quarterback. You're hoping you're not getting hit every time you touch the ball. Running backs hit every time he touches the ball, unless he's going for a touchdown every time. Yeah, I just guy's tough. I wouldn't

I wouldn't doubt him now. Like I said, the Adams win is a little bit different because that was a hospital deal and all that. I just and he's got to be in the concussion protocol absolutely, So maybe he goes out there, but how much did he do? Yeah he should dark room effective? Will he be? You know if if you're nervous about him out there, but yeah, he passes the concussion protocol knock on Wood should be worried about that number twelve. Oh, I'm very very worried

about discount double check going there, very worried. But I also don't want him to be able to pass the ball to all these They got a lot of weapons, they sure do. I mean, you know last year they were struggling with their running backs too, And Mickey just told you Jamal Williams as a full participant. What does he bring? You know, they've had this carouself running backs. I mean, guys, I know you'll miss Eddie Lacy out there will seem at Christmas. Ye see, Santa Clause will

bring us Eddie Lacy. Yeah, he's another option for him. But you know they really they really don't run the ball that much. Rodgers really good, yeah, really good. And montgomer only has forty six carries. Yeah, you take away Rogers fourteen carries, which I'm sure a lot of those weren't designed. They've got seventy rushes for the season, and the Cowboys have ninety eight minus dacks twelve, They've got eighty six. They're just see, they rely on Aaron Rodgers

and they don't really worry so much about balance. Honestly, No, they really don't. And you know, it's it's a team. It's really the opposite of what Dallas is. They rely so much on the quick passing game too. You know, they'll throw a screen outside off of play action to just to get four yards. If Rogers feels like you're playing off coverage, he'll fire the ball to the outside. So yeah, it's it's a it's a clearly a pass offense first, then run, you know with what they with

what they do. I mean, I'm sure Aaron Rodgers would love to have a rushing attack, but he doesn't. But he the way he plays, he sets he sets them up as Okay, I'm gonna throw the ball to act like that. It's a run with his short passing game. You think the Packers call in as fans and complain about the balance. No, not with Aaron Rodgers at quarterback. I don't think so. I think sixty toty six. Yeah,

they lost the game. You know what Zekett believe was one hundred and fifty nine yards in the first game last year. Lost that game, and then they turn around and won the playoff game. He had one hundred and twenty five. Actually he had one hundred. Well, maybe I messed it. I thought I wrote it down and it was thirty three for one ninety one. Yeah, I think that. I think that to me. I looked at I looked on the inn at the Jesus Site, and I think I just it was one hundred. I thought it was

one hundred and fifty nine yards. Maybe it was the Cowboys total total. Yeah, that's the total. The total place. But I thought I wrote it down the right way as Dak went for eight eighteen twenty seven. Right, So whatever they they they they feel like though that, you know, the key for them is going to be can Dallas maintain the ball? Can Dallas run the football? To me, that's what if the Packers stop your running game and force you into how they played against the Rams. It's

plays right into the Packers' hands. They thrive on that being able to get pressure and then their secondary again, there's another secondary that gives up plays. But going back to their running game, just real quick, there's there's three teams in the league that don't have a run of twenty plus yards, and the Packers are one of them. New England is a second one. Now you're talking about two of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game.

You know, they don't have a rusher has a twenty yard run, so they make up with it with other ways. Their longest run actually is Aaron Rodgers, Yeah, thirteen yards. Thirteen yards. I'm guessing that's a scramble abs potentially. Yeah yeah, Oh you didn't think they called the readoption? I mean maybe, but I doubt it. I don't know if you guys play fantasy football, and I know it's you know, it's a little bit funny sometimes, but this game is like

fantasy football owners nightmare for defenses. If you have the Green Bay defense or the Cowboys defense, they're not projected high points at all. Right, and it's because of the fact that both offenses are so strong for these teams, right, and well, hopefully the Cowboys one will be as strong as people are projecting. But this defense that you're talking about, the Green Bay one, are they really able to stop the Cowboys run? Do they have the personnel and the

guys in place healthy enough to do that? Yeah, I think it's going to come down to really about Kenny Clark and Daniels and those guys. Even though they play without Daniels, they've they've been pretty good. My benchmark is always those four plus runs. You know, they've been one of Now, the cow Boys went into this game last year at Lambeaux and this was the number one rush

defense in the league and they got shredded. You know, So the Cowboys with with really a similar personnel, you know, no no Peppers, you know, Peppers is no longer there, but you know, they the Cowboys have to feel like, hey, we can run the football. If you line up the same guys that you lined up against us last year, you know, we'll find a way to make this work. And so the Packers Dom Capers has to be worried that, okay,

they're gonna smash us in the running game. They'll get things going play action wise, you know, and then now you've got they didn't do a very good job of covering the Cowboys. We're seeing me. Cole Beasley was open a lot watching the tape. Terrence Williams was open a lot. Dez Bryant had a huge day, you know. So they have to be worried about though, if it comes to all of a sudden, now Dallas does find balance and you know they but that's the great equalizer again is Rogers.

You can drive the ball, drive the ball, drive their ball, and then all of a sudden he makes it two. It's a three play drive for a touchdown. You might go twelve plays. He goes to plays. You know that that's the that's the that's the that's the poison you deal with right there. Yeah, see the thing that you know, we're talking about the run and how the Cowboys will have to get the Packers, you know, to not block

the run right, just keep it going. But on the other side of this, the thing that I'm feeling good about, and we touched on this yesterday. No Micah hide, no shields out there. Yeah, maybe these receivers finally have a big day. Maybe Cole Beasley, I mean he had a great regular season game again to this team obviously different personnel, but Dak was able to get him the ball, and

kind of they've got issues out. They've got issues guys, they you know, with their secondary Yeah, and talking to some folks up there though they're not really sure who all they're going to start. And you mentioned about Quentin Rawlings. You know, he plays as the nickel. He's been burned quite a bit. House you know, has been nicked up as well. They play Morgan Burnett as one of the safeties in the slot. I mean they're looking for people

to try and cover. They're sitting around pick Kevin king Is that Kevin kingo playing time and it's against top receivers. There you go a lot of AJ Green a couple weeks ago. Yeah, he's gonna he might travel with Dezins, he might travel with Dez in this game, so you know, you gotta be but they do have some issues. Dallas has just got to find a way to have balanced like they did in the first half of that Rams game.

You know, they got to keep that together and just stay on this because you just can't allow Rogers to just have you know, you can't punt three times. You just can't do that. You've got to find a way to finish drives. You gotta run the football, and you got to make some plays on the outside yourself. You can't let the Packers receivers make all the plays. You have to make plays as well. Zeke was twenty eight for one fifty seven. There you go. And if we

remember des didn't play in that game. No, that's the game at Lambeau, right, Yeah, So Terrence Williams had four catches for seventy five and Beasley had six and went and had four. So they've figured out somehow some way to put up enough offense to be able to beat him up there. But they were efficient turnovers too. You got some turnovers from Rogers. You got you got an you get an interception, and then you got to fumble on the goal line. Basically David Urban. That's nice. Yeah,

busting through there. You gotta take advantage of when they do make a mistake. They're not gonna make many. He's not gonna make many mistakes, but you got to take advantage of that when he does. We were doing stats yesterday on Cover four, and did you know that in Aaron Rodgers' career, he has thrown one hundred and one less interceptions than Eli Manning's career. Yeah, that's incredible, that's incredible.

And Eli's played a little longer in the league, but just to buy a couple of years, Yeah, only by a couple of years. How many Eli Eli was four? Rogers became the starter eight. Does that show how good Rogers is or how bad he? Oh? Way to go, kid, there you go. Ki't with the fire with a fire. But I'm asking. All I'm saying is you're right, Brian, when they do get those opportunities in Tyrone Crawford, there's

a ball right between your legs. Yeah, you know, I get he was looking around, Yeah, trying to benefit of the doubt. He was looking and unfortunately it just didn't go their way on that one. Wasn't just takeaways in

that game. They just did a good job of covering receivers on Rogers in the in the Lamba game, and they played a lot of three man rush and just covered well, put a committed extra guys in the secondary and just forced Rodgers to stay in the pocket and make throws and he wasn't accurate, and normally you count on Aaron Rodgers being accurate. Yeah, that was the key. They did a really nice job defensively in that game

well too. You know it was thirty one forty two for two hundred and ninety four yards and that's the Lamba game, right, Yeah, And you know who heard him was Montgomery. Montgomery as they were using them out of the backfield receivers passes right, clogging cover. But also too though in the playoff game, Cook, who's no longer there, the tight end was a big factor in that game. So now it's Marty B's turn. Yeah, Marty B. You never know, I mean, I just he does such a

great job of spreading the ball around. But Dallas has got to do what they have to do on offense to win this football game. They really really do. They If they're relying on their defense, that's probably the wrong approach offense has got to help you in this game. But I used the word discipline take I really do. On defense. You cannot allow them twelve men on the field, free plays, you can't allow shots down the field. You can't.

You have to cover guys, stay with your men, run with your guy, finish the play, play through the whistle. That's what they need to do. Yeah, and you know, we're talking about a lot of guys that everyone's very familiar with, the Zekes, the Deys, the Wittons, that Cole's defense. You got to Mark Lawrence, everybody. But I want to ask you guys a couple of names, and they're they're both fullbacks, Rod Smith and Keith Smith. What have they

been able to do? I know rod Smith has been more involved, but Keith Smith was a guy last year they used a lot to kind of do these types of things, dirty works up the dirty yards that help there. Have they been doing that through the first four games. Yeah, they've used I think kids Smith played last week more and he just haven't. No, they haven't gained haven't used the fullback. Yeah, well they're using more too tight end. Yeah, and the twelve personnel group has been a little bit

of a struggle for them. You know, they've gone to some thirteen personnel had a little bit better success with that. But yeah, with Keith, they just haven't been able to consistently get him going, and they tried last week a little bit. I always worry about, you know, a fullback getting in the way of Ezekiel La because he's such a great one back runner when he sees cuts and things like that. You don't want Ezekiel to hesitate. You

want him on the goal line. Yeah, I'm sure they sure did, They sure, And that's what they're gonna do. They're gonna you know, the third and ones, the fourth and ones. You're gonna see Keith Smith in the game doing that kind of stuff. But overall though, you know, it's they just haven't got that traction that we talk about. Man. Well, before we get to more fun here in the SWBC Mortgage Studio, including Mickey's obviously awesome Papa John's read that

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like a pro. Visit Cowboys travel dot com to book your travel package today. This is talking Cowboys. Oh, Pabba John's pizza tastes so great, Okay, can't get it being I know why the ingredients nick well, and what kind of ingredients do they have? Can't they have one hundred percent pork and beef? What about them? Veggie? Never frozen, never frozen, never frozen. And when you put all that stuff together like that, you have a better pizza at its Papa John's. I started to say, I felt like

I was doing the Madden thing. Yeah, if you put all that stuff together and you pile it up and then you cook it, it'll be really good. Thanks John Madden. Now is it didn't heat his guys? His football life just aired? Was it? It was? It was last Friday? Friday's Friday. Yeah. The one this week is on Wes Welker, a good old Texas Tech alum. Yep, so, Wes Welker. They're going to look into him. And of course he changed the game for slot receivers. He did. Cole Beasley

and him held it down for a little bit. Now you got Danny, him and Dola and a lot of them. Ryan Switzer might be in that mix one day too. Well. Have you guys been getting a lot of questions about Ryan Switzer? Yes, Twitter accounts, have you about when they might use him, when they might or people more so

earlier in the season. I don't know if maybe the muff punt upsets some fans a little bit, not so much worried about the offense, but they're seeing week to week they're trying to get him integrated a little more. Those jet sweep some of the stuff Lucky did. It's just hard to get him on the field as a true wide out. You know, Yeah, who do you take off of the field? And we got to use Beasley and him in the slot. At the same time, take he got to take Witten off. Yeah, that ain't happening.

You're not taking Winting off the field. And you're talking about tight ends, and we sort of got into Martellis Bennett making his grand return back to Dallas. Obviously, he had a very interesting article he wrote last year with his brother and talked about his time here at Dallas. We don't have to get into all of that. But Byron Jones, you know, we've talked about him and what he's been able to do in the tasks he's had being in the secondary and helping being matched with Heath

and Right the guys they lost in free agency. Could he have a breakout game against Martellis Bennett. Well, yeah, I mean I think that's one of Byron's best strengths is being able to say, line up against the opposing tight end and cover that guy and from a safety spot, that's impressive. Not many safeties can do that in the league. You know, Martellis is the guy they're trying to get going a little bit. He s got some drops too.

He had some drops. Yeah, early in the season, right had I think he had six catches though against the Bears a few days ago. Sure, so, And I saw a quote that Rogers said they need to get him involved to try to get his confidence going a little right, So maybe that's engaged. Okay, Mickey has some personal bias with him. Oh, I'm just that's always been his problem. He doesn't stay engaged. So if you get him engaged,

then yeah, he'll he'll roll. I just it's like feeding a guy in basketball, right, you get him going early and then the guy all right, I got some rhythm here to your point. I mean, and Brian just said it. He's a deceptively it's a really athletic, big target six seven, whatever he is. He could be a guy, especially down in the red zone. And they've been successful in the red zone, the best in the league without him even

getting a touchdown passed so far. I make teams now as he played for four this is the fourth, yes, super Bowl four? Yeah, Dallas, New England, Giants, Chicago. This is his fifth one. Right, I forgot about New England. Yeah, he got a Super Bowl right, aways got the winning

touchdown in the Super Bowl. He was on the postgame show and it was very you know, vocal about how he felt about free agency and where he thought he belonged, and now he's with obviously a great quarterback in Aaron Rodgers played He's played with some great ones if you think about his career. Yeah, I'm just saying, you know, I'm looking at kind of the safety play in this game, and you know what they're gonna do with the secondary, and Barry Church was able to have a great game

against this Packers' offense. Different guys, I get it. But Byron Jones, where can he really have? Like, hey, guys, I'm a good, big time player on this defense game, Well, what would you rather have Byron Jones and the slot covering the tight end or Byron Jones playing deep safety and maybe have a Woozier in the slot covering him. Yeah, I mean they've got they've got options. They've got some

options now. And he also got a factor in. You know, Cavon Frasier was listed as limited right, and he didn't exactly excel last week either. I didn't think right, So I bad figure out where you want to be, you know where you feel better. You want Byron Jones close to the line of scrimmage and leave Heath and Frasier deep. I think about Cheeto though in the back. You know he's a physical guy. Obviously, I'm not taking anything now, I don't mean it, Yeah, I don't mean in the back.

I mean in the slot. Yeah, I'm just saying if you move him around a little bit. I like what you're saying with options, I think, I think would you be comfortable with would you be comfortable with Xavier Woods playing deep and then putting Byron Jones down? Do you feel like you have a little bit more rap being I feel better about it a little bit. Ben Frasier, Right, yeah, because that's what they tried last last week. Right Frasier. To me, Frasier has become a liability and coverage and

that's that's a shame. Now Frasier, you know, his his calling card is to go and hit and be that guy, be a downhill player. But he missed a tackle you know in the uh at the you know in that stumbled and then on the sixty six yard run. I mean he's the first guy down, and you know you can't have that happened. He missed several tackles in space coverage on the fifty three coverage coverage. Yeah, so you know they have to think about. Now, Okay, what's the

best plan of attack here? Is it putting Xavier Woods on the field? I mean, you know, do you? How much do you? Maybe this is where a Woozier. Maybe this is where we see a Woozier. Maybe take some snaps as what Mickey was talking about that dime player in slot, but maybe even some safety stuff. You know, if you if you're worried about Cavon Frasier, if you're worried about Jeff Heath, if you're worried about those guys, maybe it's okay, who who are best cover guys? Who

the guys that we can count on? I know you you know, Wooziers a rookie, but you might be able to count on him and coverage more than you will Jeff Heath or or Cavon Frasier. Questions here? Now, another good question came from Rob's pole yesterday. Yeah, we're talking about matchups on both sides. What's the toughest matchup for the Cowboys? Who they really need a key on to win this game? And I've got two options on offense, two options on defense. Randall Cobb Haha, Clinton Dix, Clay

Matthews Jordy Nelson. I got thoughts. I'll take Jordy Nelson and it was the worried about, right, Yeah, the was concerned about entering Week five. Hey, did Jordy Nelson play against the Cowboys in that regular season game? Yes? He did. He had a drop, I want to say, or he had a fumble. Didn't in that game? Where was that they had a he had a fumble in that game? Or was that the playoff game? He had a fumble he caught the ball in the middle of the field.

He had the ribs in the playoffs, right, Yeah, yeah, Okay, that's what I was thinking. I was like, there an there was a game where he was he got hurt against the Giants the week before. Yeah, I don't think he played my Montgomery broken ribs style. In the regular season game, he caught five passes for sixty eight yards. Yeah, that had a drop. Where I think that I want to say that that he got hit and by who am I thinking of a forty two very very Church

hit him? Yeah, he little physical. Yeah, Barry hit him and he fumbled the ball and Dallas got the ball. But I think I would be more worried about I think I'd be more worried about. You didn't have Cob on there? Did you did? Am I not listening today? You had Cob right, cop is my guy. I'm sorry about that. Rob deep threat guy. Yeah, just all over

the field, backfield, quick screen, slant down the field. I worry more about I worry more about his versatility in this game because now you're gonna have to try and find a way to match him plays in the slot. You could play a lot of different levels with him. So my apologies, I didn't I would know your attention, but I didn't remember. I worry about Clay Matthews just because if something happens with Smith, especially that and he's not back, he's not either play a three four, but

he's not really a cover linebacker. He's more back to being a rush guy, and he can really impact the game that way. You guys, said Jordy Nelson, that was the leader in the clubhouse. Ye se, he leads this team with five touchdown catches, had a big fifty eight yard catch the other the other day against the Bears, a touchdown for for Aaron Rodgers. You me and the fans we think alike. You do always do you think Nelson, I said, Nelson. Yeah, well, let's hear more from the fans.

We do have a caller on the line, Lloyd from Virginia. What is your question? Hello, guys, A long time fan, long time listener. And to prove it, I need to throw Mickey a couple of targets. Mickey. I just got off my John Deer, took a shower, put on my Tommy Johns waiting for some Papa John's and now as tom for we're talking cowboys. Oh there's guys after our own heart. Yeah you like that? Well yeah, keep it

to the sponsorship. Well, thank you, brother. Been a fans in sixty three when Mickey's uh Bears beat my Giant and a couple of points there just for our team special teams. I grew up with the guy who holds the Cowboy record for longest punt return. Jeff tell Switzer he won't get it. It's ninety eight yards, catch the ball and then run on d defense brought us. You scouted these guys out. You know they're gonna be good.

It just takes some time. By game nine, you're gonna be talking about how good they are and how smart you are. I hope so and on offense, let's stop this three yards in a cloud of dust stuff. We can run to the outside. Zeke, they're more athletic. I've heard Nate say, they're not mallers, they're athletic guys. Let's run to the outside and break that line up. Go Cowboys. I love it. Lloyd is excited. He gets me fired up. Hey, he's talking about special teams. We got into Ryan Switzer. Yeah,

I get that. You know, he's got to learn that. But coach Garrett did a great job of addressing that yesterday and he said he's going to learn. Yeather he likes it or not, he's going to learn. And of course he even admitted that he had been a little too aggressive with some of those punt returns in the first few games, but he will learn it now. Game nine, getting that rookie defense just jelling ready to go. I'd love to see that. And offense, Zeke and Kent does

have a few clips. Let's I want to hear the one of Zeke talking about how he thinks they can be more efficient on first and second downs. Stand by, I'll pull that up to thank you, sir. So we'll get to that. But Zeke was Zeke was pretty uh open in the locker room. I was looking for the right word to talk about it, because he basically came out and said it. There's no panic here, right. Yeah. And those guys, I'm not gonna speak for all of them, say they're sick of hearing about it, but I think

they're sick. Yeah. The offense, I mean, look, Mickey said it. They put up thirty points in the game. I think they did a lot of things well offensively against a pretty good Rams defense. They just weren't consistent. I think they feel like they're they're gaining traction though, and this might be the game where they kind of pulled it all together. We'll see. Um. But Zeke's been pointing to the first and second down. He's been saying that for

a couple of weeks now. They've got to be better on first and second down, give themselves a chance on third days. Just go ahead, Kent. We're taking a little bit longer such a progress this year, and I really don't think that's a bad thing. You know, you'd rather be hitting your stride, you know, mid to late season, then you know, peaking earlier and you know, not going you know what I mean. So as long as you hit your peak, it really doesn't matter how long it

takes you. Uh. You know, you could lose six games in this league and still go to the playoffs. As long as you have this stright at the right time, then then you're good. So I mean, but there's no penning in this locker room at all. Well, there you go. See, I think he makes a good point. He does. Did I mean, did anybody think that this was a finished product at the beginning of the season, like the Cowboys were thirteen and three and boy, here we go again. Yeah,

I think a lot of people thought that. I'm no, I'm talking about us. No, But because I thought this would be a team that would get better because they had so many new parts and young guys trying to get in there, and maybe you improve if the season goes along. I just didn't think they were finished product.

Where I where I made the argument was that when people wanted to talk about Dak and the sophomore slump, my point was, well, he can't have a sophomore slump because of Dez Bryant, Cole Beasley, Jack Martin, Travis, Frederick Ezekiel, Elliott Scott Linahan, the people around him. Yeah, he was not going to have a sophomore slump because of the people around him. And so I'm looking bad right now because maybe the people around him are letting or letting

this team down right now. And I don't mean that in a way of I'm just trying to point out where I saw it the wrong way that, you know, I felt like that, Hey, don't put it all on Dak. That's fine, I mean, don't do that, but think about the reason why he had success with the guys around him. And we've had some questions about the guys around him. So the finished product question, I don't or the finished

product answer. You know, maybe I didn't think that way, but I've surely felt like that offensively they were better than what they were defensively. I don't have as many questions Defensively. I'm glad they're playing the young players, but I have a little bit paul Is about what's going on on offense. Keep shaking you. I just disagree with Mickey. Maybe none of us on our on this show felt

that way. I thought they'd be better running the ball offensively than they have been, even having two guys play positions they'd never played in the NFL. Yeah, because you're talking about the offensive line, because how many teams have three All pros in their office? Yeah? But here, did you hear Frederick yesterday? I hear that. But I'm just saying I think that can raise the level of play for the other that's not helping them out. Well. I think Brian makes a good point too, like they're paying

they're playing excellent fronts. Yeah, and that has that has to be taken to account. But I do think I expected this offense to be a little, I would say finished product by this point based on what they did last year. They've got a philosophy, they have most of the pieces back and just keep it going. But I think you do have to give credit to the quality of players that they've been playing. And I do think it's going to get better. Yeah, well that was my point.

It'll get better, but it's not a finished product to start Leale Collins hadn't played right tackleson LSU. Yeah, see we were he was left tackle. I was thinking that has Green never played guard? Everybody else's back. Yeah, but see what did Fredericks say yesterday? You miss one block? Oh no, the whole offensive. That's bad. That is true. Yeah, that is true. No, and that's we always talk about evaluate offensive lineman on sixty five plays, not on one play.

So but if you have where you have multiple plays where you have guys like to say, the left guard was not very good the other day, you know, consistently wasn't very good. So you're gonna have problems moving to football. But I bought into I bought into the teammate factor on offense. Yeah, I really really bought in it. And I still think that's fairer because these guys are still good players and they've played together. I mean, it's just Zeke averaging three yard point six per carry. I just

can't see that continuing. Well, take out, it's gonna get better. Take out the second game, and what's the averaging because the average out the window. When you get nine carries for eight yards, that just skews the whole thing. Like, oh, he's all three four games, he's been bad. Ye been bad for four games. You know, I didn't say he did happen out run that happened? Well, I know, I am at it. I am surprised they didn't run the ball effectively in the second half of that game last

week against the Ring. But I understand the competition. I'm the one that talking about that, and I get what Aaron Donald is and Michael Brockers and those guys. I get what that is. But that surprised me in the second half. I was sitting in I was sitting in the studio at halftime, thinking, Okay, just keep doing what you're doing. Yeah, just what's your adjustment second half? Ryan, Keep doing what you're doing, Keep keep running the ball.

If Ezekiel Elliott found a way to have I mean, we had sixty something yards and get one hundred and twenty yards by half and had one hundred and thirty three in the Yeah, you forgot about the brilliance of Wade Phillips. That that was, That was that was talked about,

That was talked about. But I just to me that that part of it was a little surprising and and and may that's on me for feeling like that, Hey, no, this team and maybe I thought they were finished product Mickey, because of I thought of a Hall of Fame tied end. The quality at wide receiver, the quality of the slot, the quality of the running back, the quality of the quarterback, the quality of the offensive line even though it was missing two parts, and it's all still quality. Like so

you're not wrong there and thinking that way. You know, I think the opponents have had something to do with this, of course, but it's it gives me a little concern that they did not in the second half finished the game like they started. The start was brilliant at that football game. At fifteen play, eighty one yard drive, they it was like, okay, that's that's the twenty six and they like it. Let's see more of that. And they had the fumble, the muff punt that Mickey's right, that

killed any time. That could have been just the nail right there. If they would have got the ball and all of a sudden, now you're driving seventy yards thirteen play, you could have taken their will to compete right there. But you know, a sudden, they get a short touchdown. The three touchdowns, three point the points they scored, we're all off short field drives, you know, and that's some self inflicted stuff. Thirteen points. Yeah. And by the way,

Nelson did not play in that playoff game. Yeah, okay, so that's where he got whacked in the back at the Giants game and they and he sat out. That's right, so broken Ribs didn't let him play. Maybe it will be Oh forebore a little foreshadowing here, And of course Cowboys will have their second practice report out today and we will talk about it when we come back for our Friday show of Talking Cowboys. We'll get into who we think will be inactive. They might answer this question

for us. Yeah, we gotta remember to pick our player. I don't think we did it. Like to keep picking Lawrence. So Lawrence, how did you get a chance to do? Say it right now? You can't do that. I can't do it, guys, guys, So we'll have some random for you guys tomorrow. We'll have exciting things. Stay tuned eleven thirty am Central Time, Dallas Cowboys dot Com. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.

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