Talkin' Cowboys: Trade Up, Down, Or Stay Put?

minus minus numero. Oh no, k Y. It definitely knows Jelly today on the Oh, he's not here today, and so I'm with my guy in the closer week into the draft, I will definitely make sure that I acknowledge that you are the fourth round pick, one hundred and third pick and the two thousand and seven draft. My man, Isaiah stand back, you dubbed is in the building, my man, and Super Bowl champion. Throw the magazines up and man pee.

How many nicknames do you have so far? Since you since we've joined the show, We've given you like probably three in my life and then start joined the show probably like twenty three. Talking about Yeah, so expanded, Rob, Rob Phillips, Yes, Rob p Island trend to dad P just pe easter p Easter building like two this morning when I walked that man, Yeah, you know that's what it's rough man, rough crowd. You know we'll go welcome over Coop shirt with all his nicknames. But I'm telling

you it's a good idea to do do it now. Still, every week you get a new one that's just got blue bonnets every time we see you, fickle man. We got another Tuesday, guys. I got a good show planning, plenty of action on the questions today. I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say about all of the things that we have to run down. But Pete, we got some serious business to take care of. And and obviously I'm gonna leave give you the floor because I want to get the kind of the rundown of

the deadlines on how everything transpired. And we're talking about Kelvin Joseph and you know the serious charges that he has right now. Yeah, I think with a situation like this, the best thing I think I could do is just tell everybody what we know, because there's so much that we don't know right now with that with that case, that investigation, and I guess we'll just start with what happened I think almost a month ago to the day m Cameron Ray, and this is the most important part

of the story. A man lost his life. Cameron Ray, years old, was in the Lower Greenville district of Dallas, was shot and killed in a drive by shooting. There was a Dallas police investigation, and Kelvin Joseph was wanted for questioning because of surveillance video that surfaced about his connection to a group that was in that car that shot a shot Cameron Ray allegedly, so he spoke to investigators last week. Two other men have been arrested in

connection to that shooting. I think that happened on Saturday over the weekend, and there has not been an arrest of Kelvin Joseph or he has not been charged with anything either. But as far as we know, the investigation is still open. So beyond that, I don't know where it goes from here for Kelvin Joseph other than it's my understanding he was here in the building taking part in the start of the Cowboys voluntary offseason program yesterday.

So I think, based on what's happened to this point and the Cowboys appear to be just letting this situation play out legally and see and see what happens, because there hasn't been any movement from them in terms of, hey, we're just monitoring the situation. That's that was the essence

of their statement last week. And I, Saiah, let me ask you this man from from a being in the locker room and having h knowing, you know, being having your teammates there and guys that you rely on heavily, how does this affect a locker room when you have one of your teammates have these serious occusations and obviously the videotape and everything. How does that in the locker room? How does that premeate in the locker room? Not good?

Not good. There's been a number of teams that I've been on, you know, especially here in Dallas, where we had a lot of controversial players on a team, you know, and going back to you know, whether people want to call Till controversial. You got you know pac Man Jones and his legal issues that he had, you had, you know,

Tank Johnson the issues that he had legally. It's it's one of those things where you don't want that conversation revolving around your team, especially when you're coming you're trying to launch a season, you're trying to launch off season program. You're trying to have everybody's you know, eyes on the prize, and hey, this is what we're gonna do going forward, this is what we're gonna make up for last year,

and then you have this thrown in the mix. Um, you know, to Rob's point, and it is really unfortunate that a young man lost his life. I think it's eye opening in terms of gentlemen in this on this team, in this locker room, and even with amongst the league, you know, watching who you're hanging out with, you know, watching the circle that you keep, the company that you keep. Uh, it just it's it's a it's a it's an unfortunate situation.

It's a terrible look. Obviously, you already mentioned that this case is still open. I think as of yesterday, I think you know, the two of the gentlemen that he was presumably with have admitted Tom to what they either

rolling it um. So there's no telling in terms of can you even depend on Kelvin Joseph Now, you know, in terms of the draft coming up, it changes it changes everything in terms of the you know, the the GEM and the scouting department now is like, okay, somebody that we were relying on as a one year kind

of project. Hopefully they were hoping that he would have contributed last year, but now definitely we talked about it last week or week before that they were going to be laying their head on him in terms of him trying to step up this year. Now, what do you

do going into the draft? Do you replace him? Do you take somebody at that hyper because there's probably something he's probably going to be attached to this in some form or fashion, right, so you can expect there to be some form of suspension at some point in time or regardless of how severe that maybe there's a whole lot, you know, I want to speculate on anything. There's a lot that's going to come down. But it changes a lot in terms of your your team's expectations and who

they could really rely on. Yeah, that's that's the other side of this thing too. And again the biggest factor or part of this story is that someone died. Yes, and I forgot to mention because I say, you jog my memory here. There was a statement made by Kelvin Joseph's attorney to the Morning News here in Dallas that yes, he was in a passenger in the car, but he was not the shooter. He was unarmed, he didn't want any part of what happened. So that's where that stands

at this point. But to your point, Isaiah, like, that's from a football perspective. We've seen with the Cowboys and different legal situations or accusations. It doesn't take a charge or an arrest to be penalized by the NFL discipline face some kind of discipline. So there's I mean, there may not be a resolution from from the Cowboys side, Kelvin Joseph's side, for it could be weeks, it could

be months. We just don't know at this point. Yeah, and I think guys, we we obviously we want to be very sensitive because this is a legal matter and you know, no charges has been brought against Kelvin Joseph. For me, guys, when when we got the group text about what was going on, and yeah, I was, I was.

I was ticked off about it, genuinely ticked off about it because growing up in a community where these kinds of things happen too often, and looking at what's happening in our country of things like this that are happening way too often. Don't hold no punches when I say I am not a gun advocate. I am the opposite on that spectrum, and I'm cool to everybody that does. But when you come to the state of Texas, you better get used to it, because this is just what

it is. I'm disappointed in this lifestyle and where common sense isn't really common and situations like this that could easily be resolved. Someone goes to picking up a pistol or whatever weapon you have, and a life is lost. Like you said, that's the story, Cameron Ray, a young man that's twenty years old, and that's what I'm saying. That's not common sense for a mother to have to bury her child. You can't even fathom it. I can't

even think of it. And I have a son, a teenage son that I try and talk to every day about his surroundings and the people that he's talking to and what he's doing with them, because it's way too easy to get caught up in a situation like this. If you come from certain environments, we think that when you well, you're a millionaire. Now life should be change. You should know better than that. Kelvin Joseph is twenty

one years old, and let me tell you something. When I think about where I was at twenty one years old, I just is nothing but the grace of the Lord that I am here functioning. So I want to handle this with the matter of grace as well, because I want for young men that are in situations like this to think and say to themselves that I have way more to lose than the company that I'm around. And so look, I'm gonna leave it at that so that we could get on with the rest of this show,

because we have an awesome show. But that had to be talked about. But in other news, all season workouts have started, well, Fallen told workouts started and everybody that I believe that we have all hands on deck. Everyone that's supposed to be here is here, which is everyone I would I would. I don't have a head count. Usually it usually it is usually guys. And going back to when Isaiah was playing here, I mean, the tendances is usually pretty good because guys, it's a good place

to live. Guys don't really live outside a state. In the off season, that makes it easier to do. And it's also it also helps if and I'm not every guy has this, but if you have workout bonuses built into your contract, it doesn't hurt to show up for five weeks, get some lifts in, take part of some OTAs, and and get a nice check on top of your game checks when the season starts. Man. Funny story, quick story,

Rickie year, everybody gets drafted. We go down to I believe it was San Antonio and we're hanging out there. It's it's a night before practice starts, right, like, hey, and all none of the Rockies have been signed yet, none, none of us, right, none of the draft picks have been signed. That back in the day, that was so

this was the thing. So the reason why there was such a hang up the night before right, not knowing if you were going to practice the first day, was because they had a clause in our contracts that said if you're not present for seventy plus percent of the offseason workouts, then they don't have to pay you a certain percentage of your salary. It was something it was some kind of some kind of verbiage like that, and so all that everybody was like heck, no, we ain't

signing this, you know what I mean? Like we were together, one little one lord bond, right, just nobody's doing it. The trust treat Yeah, the trust, the circle of trust. Right, Dion Anderson's agent signs the deal. Oh Man agrees to the deal. Everybody had to follow suit after that. Right. It wasn't a problem because we were gonna be here anyways.

But there, you know, as you think about Randy Gregory, right in the verbiage that that are in these contracts, there's little things like that that you have to pay a lot of attention to and maybe those things contribute to the to the population and the contribute you know what I'm saying, in the in the in the participation in the offseason workouts, there's little tricky things like that that play a part so that one domino fail everybody

at the ball. That's that's now, that's ringing a bell. Man, I forgot about that. Yeah, it was the night before and night before Christmas doing it? Man, Well, what does that do for your team? As far as the camaraderie, uh, you know, Isaiah, obviously the rookies are here there, bright eyed, bushy tails being you know, and feeling like an NFL, feeling like a pro. But then you have those wily veterans that are here that's laughing probably at the young

guys coming in. What was your experience with that, obviously knowing that, look, man, I'm fighting for a position to get on this get on this team. I think it's very important. It's awesome that you that you get back into saddle, you know, especially coming out off of a year. For all the guys that are returning coming off of last year, I mean the disappointment of that. You want

to get back to work as soon as possible. You had your little vacation, You got to go out the country, hang out with your family, lady, all that kind of jazz, spend some time, relax for about a week or two off of working out, get back on it, and now it's time to start putting your mind back on the prize again, and that is trying to get that dog

on Lombardy, right. You were a couple of games away from that thing, and that's that is the worst feeling in the world, knowing you were three games away and tada, your back home, just like everybody else in the league. So it's awesome. When you get all these guys back in the locker room, you haven't seen guys in a while, you got the camaraderie. COVID is kind of, you know, going away in terms of all the restrictions regarding that. So we know how strenuous and uptight that has been

over the past few years. So this should be a huge offseason for the guys and they should be more than excited to see each other participate in workouts. It's not a straight grind day one. They work you into it, right, but it's awesome to see all your boys again. Now you saw adults. And Schultz had some great things to say about having Dak healthy. Last year. Dak really couldn't participate in the voluntary workouts. He was here in the building,

but more rehabbing from the ankle injury. What is that in just your estimation in the off season, obviously with everything that they're going to have to get into Cupboade, now, how big and how effective is that going to be for this team in the team building part? I think

it's huge. I think it's probably the single most important thing they could get done this offseason is have Dak not worrying about that part of his off season, there's not I mean, he's gonna have probably management style things to do with his ankle probably the rest of his career, but it's not a straight up a month long rehab

thing that he's dealing with. And Yeah, Schultz talked about that, like they've had these captain workouts the last few weeks where you can show up and it's it's not supervised by coaches. He's just guys out doing um strength and conditioning stuff. But guys are getting together on their own and throwing. And he said, we've already gotten together with guys doing that, uh, way more so than last year

because of Dak's situation. I think I mean that to me, Um, when you're talking about the quarterback position and that importance to your overall team success, that's the biggest thing they can accomplish this offseason in my opinion, And along with what Isaia spoke about the camaraderie. We talked to Dante Fowler last week. Here's a new guy coming in who has met only a few guys, played with a couple of guys passing his career, Uh, you know, played for

Dan Quinn, gets to meet everybody. Build that camaraderie. I think that is important, even though for the first couple of weeks, Um, there's no football involved. You're just you're just getting your your lift in, getting your your running in Zaya for listen, I want to get to the to the bazuka. Um, well, guys, I got about to fight the other what what? And I'm telling you, look at Slim and Trim. All right, look at Slim and Trim. But didn't you say he was gonna come back at

like two ninety? I didn't say to ninety. I think you did yeh eighty because I'm I'm look, I'm a go ahead and stack campaign. He is not He's not that. He is not that. But how important for a guy like this coming off of a monster rookie season and just the offseason, the workouts, how pivotal. I mean you obviously the years that you've played in physically you probably got bigger and bigger and bigger. I don't know how

you can add on anything for Mica. For Micah, yeah, you know, in his position, how does he you know, continue to grow as a player in this offseason? It's huge. I mean, you talk about the physical aspect of the game. This this portion of the year is is so crucial because of the fact that you have this window of time from April until August to put on as much mass as you possibly can, because the reality is you built up all this muscle. You know, we have Harold Nash,

who was the head coach here. I had him as an assistant strength coach in New England. He's a he's a beast. He walks around it like a little swollen bowling ball. Okay, and when you're with him, you're gonna

live some weight. So they have they have a heck of a leadership team in regards to that, and he's gonna have an opportunity to spend the entire offseason with him, right from now until August, so they're gonna be able to get him on a dietitian, with the dietitian, get him on the shore, the conditioning program right, be able to work with the coaches, see you exactly what the game plan is. Once the draft settles in, they'll have more of an idea in terms of how they want

to utilize him. I'm sure they already have that idea. But now, once you have the pieces in place, okay, we need you more of a linebacker role, or we need to put some more masks on you because you're gonna have your hand in the ground a little bit more than we expected initially depending on what comes unto

our roster. So it's huge in terms of the time span that they get to work with their coaches and their leadership, and then in terms of his actual leadership aspect, it's huge because now you're not coming in as the rookie. Now you're coming in as a guy who had who's one of the most impactful players in the league last year. But what is that going to do to your psyche? Are you gonna be are you gonna be big headed? Are you gonna come in and take the leadership role? Right?

What are what role you're gonna really play? Because it's easy to get high and mighty when everybody's saying, oh Michael Parsons, oh bazook, oh, oh my god? Right, does that change your approach in an all season because guys that are now coming on to the team, they might respect your play, but they don't have to respect you as a person. So that's gonna be interesting to see how he what role he takes on in that regard.

How do you think it affects him as far as dan Quinn now knowing what he has and implementing his system. And that's what I kind of was was hearing what you're saying, but now taking that leadership role. That's that's probably the thing that you're saying is most important in this offseason. For Yeah, it was big because you think about last year. It was the experiment exact last year was an experiment. You know, as you went throughout the season,

they kept trying things out. Okay, hey, we're gonna trying him at linebacker and we're gonna blitz some up in this gap. Okay, that worked cool, All right, Now let's go ahead and move him outside. We had a defense and end that's hurt. Let's put him on the outside. Oh crap, he can rush too. Okay, let's right, that's going and put him man in a man coverage on the running back. Everything was an experiment. Now he knocked everything out there out the part it was it was

he passed every test with flying colors. However, it was an experiment. So now you know what he's capable of. Right, you put the you put the green dot on him or whatever it was. Okay, you put the dot on his helmet, not so much too much on him. Okay, now you have a whole off season to let him grow into that role. You're not trying to force that on him. You're not throwing that on him and seeing, Hey, if we throw that on him, that might be too much for him and we might lose the game in

the process. Now you know exactly what you have and you can build him into that role that you have for him. And don't you feel the same way about Osa Diggi Zola and yeah, and Chauncey Golson and players like that that were contributors, especially Olsa Digi Zoo and having that domination that he had the defensive front. How pivotal the off season is for players like him. Absolutely, m He's a guy I don't know we've talked about that much in terms of how much he played, how

much he contributed. And then because I think Neville Gallimore comes back mid season and we kind we didn't forget about Osa, but he was He was a vital starter that first half of the season, and then they get a couple of vets back and then it's like, Okay, he can take a little bit of a breath here,

but they're relying on him next season. They're relying on Chauncey Golson, Like you said, who, by the way, missed all of training camp last year and a couple of games into the season and then all of a sudden, now you got to you gotta hit the ground running in the middle of your first regular season that you didn't have any training for. So I think this will be beneficial for him, And you're right about Mica, like

you think about how remarkable it was for him. Experiments a good word because Week one against Tampa Bay, he's covering Gronkowski and Fournette, but he's he's basically in coverage the whole time, rushing a little bit. Week two, Tank breaks his foot and dan Quinn's like, nah, you're you're gonna be an edge rusher for fifty snaps. I don't know if he was ready for that, but he handled it and he became one of the best defensive players in the league. So let's just call the experiment our

test drive. They recognize the kind of vehicle that they have, and they're gonna drop the hell out of it come on into his second season. But I think that brings me, you know to this point, Isaiah, you know the team has changed so much over the offseason and lack of

moves or whatever. Do you think, like you being in the locker room and knowing the culture of how guys talk, do you think that these guys are saying, man, okay, so Hoop's gone, Gregory's gone, all right, we got this guy, I mean sore subject with IRS and I know, hey, I know who to ask right the hot button question. So you know, are these guys talking to saying, man, we you know, we need some help around here? Are they saying we could work with what we got as

a competitor, as a as a professional athlete. You're going to when you speak on it, okay, when you mentioned are they talking about it? When you speak on it, you're gonna speak with confidence. You're gonna speak as if you know you have the pieces that you need. You're gonna go out there and work as we can make this thing happen. Okay, if we if we're the reality okay, behind the scenes in your head, Okay, you're gonna be like we slim, yeah right, we're slim at this position

we change wah, yeah, like we're slim. You know certain positions, you know, regardless of what those positions are, you're slim. Right, So that's the reality. But is that something that you're gonna out really talk about. No, right, just like there's a whole lot of topics in this world that we don't talk about hourly, but you talk about it behind the scenes. Right, it's the same thing. You acknowledge the reality. Right.

But depending on the position that you're in. If you're a starter already and you're you're you're already submitted in that position, you're not tripment. We're good, We're good to you. Okay. If i'm office alignment, I would like a veteran in there. But the bets guarden are gone, so we're gonna be getting a Rickie in here, most likely at guard. Okay, you just recognize that reality and you say, okay, as soon as soon as the young man gets in here, we got work to do, right, we have we gotta

we have to get linked up. We gotta have some kind of continuity. If you're a young guy, or if you're a guy that's a little bit down on the depth chart. No, no, don't bring nobody in here. Don't. We're actually, okay, guys, worry about it. If you're semi right now, you're like, no, please let me have nobody. Right, You're like no, So you you want every rep that

you can get because you recognize I'm on the bubble. Yeah, sim you better be taking every rep, lifting every weight, every special teams beat in in freaking uh bones fossils hip pocket because he's gonna be your best friend. And you recognize that anybody that they bring in here. I've been in that situation all too many times in my career. Right. I was a special teams core guy. That was my role.

I never became a big time receiver, right. The most receiver I played was in New England with Moss and Welcome and all that stuff. That was the most I played. Other than that, I was a special teams dude. Okay, I recognized that was my value. Right, So when they brought in somebody for a workout, or they brought somebody else on the team, I knew where I had to shine. Yeah, I wasn't gonna necessarily outshine somebody at the receiver position.

My whole career. I was still trying to figure that out, right, But in terms of special teams. Oh yeah, you're not beating me on special teams, right, So I understood where my value was. I understand where my advantage was. And those type of players have to figure that out right now. If you're in no man's lane or you're you're pe Island trying to wait for the next ride to come along, you're probably not gonna make it because if you're not a core guy at the receiver position, if you're not

a core guy on special team, then where are you? Right? And that's the same to be said with defensive backs, defensive lineman. Not you're a linebacker on this team, you're probably on a roster. But that's about it. Talk that talk, I said, and this is coming from a fourth round draft pick that hey worked his way to a Super Bowl championship. So found on that my brother, and we are ten days away from the draft and everybody is trying to figure out what is Jerry going to do?

And he said, and I'm gonna tease this where we're moving on up. Hey, So y'all hang with us here on this TCT Tuesday. We'll be right back. There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why SLOR Pioneers ways to make lenses as unique as you. There ALUs for super sharp vision, Essential Blue for protection, and Chrisolve for freedom from glam. Three cutting up solutions in a single unique lens. So whatever your needs, insist on selor visit your local SLOR experts and find a perfect lens

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he's gonna do it. He's gonna virtually. Oh, he's gonna do the virtual. Tell him the mass mandate's gone on an airplane. He goes, Okay, well, look about five shows to do in that morning. I forgot I forgot about because magazine better put it up there. His magazine, better put it up there. It's the draft. It's the I was about to call the draft Bible. Won't do that because I want to pass go. It is the Star magazine and uh yeah you Bible and digital and prints

by two by three, get you some. I'll tell you what. Maybe a read next year? Right here? That guy, all right, what you're saying is there read there on the table? I read it for the draft, guid I did I read it? We're good, right, Gucci? Yeah? Oh no, no, no, no no. The twenty twenty two Dallas Cowboys Starry Magazine Draft Guide is now available in local pro shops, so leg read regional outlets, print as well as online digital branch edition will be available fanatics soon. Yeah there is. Yeah,

thank you, Chris. I'm sorry. I didn't understand what you were trying to tell me. You know what, I don't understand unless you say, does that make sense? So? What's your what's your college of choice for what? Just like like I'm you dub he's A and M Kansas State, Ka State, Ka State. Okay, yeah, well can't Okay, they got some fast dudes to come out of there and lock it t New Barret Brooks, big guy Pittsburgh, still Hack Marrison. I mean, come on, throw some names out.

But uh yeah, you claim and m on everything and you already know you do. I don't even question this man over here about but guys, we have the draft coming up and next week, this twenty fourth pick, this

twenty fourth pick is starting to heat up. When what the Cowboys are gonna do because they have emptied the reserves and so when the question no, but when the question was posed last week about what are we going to do in the draft, I was the only one I'm tooting my horn here that said we would move up and Jerry echoed that. Man, Jay say, you know, that's a great way to ask that question. Uh. Yeah, we'll be in straighting that. We will be interested in that.

We're moving up, moving on up. We're moving on up, George Jefson style. Yeah, man, come on, So I'm telling you, so, guys, what do you think? And I want to ask this question because I know that at twenty four you are thinking offensive linemen. But if you move up in this draft, you probably have an opportunity to get some real studs. And so what are you giving what position? I mean for let's say best if if you get why, don't get crazy, No, don't get crazy, say it doesn't want

a receiver in the first round? Trade up for a receiver? Don't do it? Can we couch real quick? Because Jerry, he did say it was a general question about your draft philosophy. Yes, trade up, trade down, and he did specifically mentioned trading up, but he did say also maybe somewhere in the first three rounds. He didn't say necessarily

first round. But it is interesting. It's interesting that that he's throwing that out there as a possibility, like, hey, my phone's on exactly that's exactly what that was my phone's on. You know, yeah, guys, there is a possibility that you can go up and really get you a stud cornerback. I'm just saying, don't don't do this nerve back. There are so many things you could do. You could go up and you can go and get you a stud left tackle. Yes, okay, I mean, I'm just saying

that these are these are can't miss. These are can't miss items. At the top. You can also go up get you a stud defensive end. Oh Russian, No, how far are you willing to go up? I want to go into. If I'm gonna go up, I'm going to the top ten. Okay, I'm dancing with You're not gonna have none to other picks. So I just had this discussion with Dave upstairs, Dave Hellman, and they apparently I missed the Draft show. Sorry Kyle, Sorry Dave. This morning

they talk kind of the same thing. So Chris was there, so m if So there's draft charts out there, right, and it's a it's not a bible, but it's it's kind of a guide on what the point system might be if you wanted to move up. So Dave and

I were just playing around up there. Just now, if you wanted to jump from twenty four into the top ten, say number nine, okay, according to one draft chart, it would cost you well, now, okay, the number nine pick would be valued at thirteen hundred and fifty points if you jumped from if you gave up your first round pick twenty four fifty six or second round pick, and your fifth round pick, that wouldn't quite get you there.

That'd be like eleven hundred points. So you might have to dip in a little further into your draft cool to do that, but either way, it's going to be multiple picks to do something like that. Now, apparently Peter King had a story out there that said this draft is not as great as past drafts, and so it wouldn't require as much equity necessarily to move up as past years. But either way, man, for a team that's got a lot of needs, you willing to trade multiple picks,

don't do it. Reconsidering here's a thing who's more desperate for a championship at this point, twenty six years of mediocrity. You want to make this move. You if you have an opportunity to shore up your offensive line with a stud you would have did it into offseason already, but you couldn't. I mean, come on, I mean no, no, you would have to pay the price for that on an offensive line that you already have big contracts on.

I think you want this guy to be a rookie, you want that paper to be come on, or unless you're getting those those B level offensive lineman. He if they if the Dallas Cowboys make the decision to trade up in the first round, I can see them maybe moving up maybe seven eight. I am to say maybe fourteen. Believe you being so conservative, nocause you're talking about you're talking about trading away your draft equity, which we know is necessary this year. It's a necessity this year because

they have a lot of holes to feel. If you were going to make a move, an aggressive move, it should have been on a free agent. Fellas. Let me ask you this though, really, and all the importance that we're putting on the draft, how many of those players actually come in and contribute the first year? I mean, well, okay, that's that's fair. That's fair. I mean usually you're looking at three guys maybe something that really like we just mentioned,

Osa steps in and obviously the Bazuka. But yeah, it's not your whole draft class. That's why when we talk about, oh, they've got four fifth round picks, those guys on playing your former teammate Orlando Scandrick was the last fifth round pick that really became a starter for this team. But on the flip side, I would say, based off of your needs, you need your second round pick to be a starter, like you don't just need your first round

pick to hit. You got it. You have to nail this draft, and that's why I'm I would be hesitant to do that. I hear you though, you got a better chance of getting a Jimmy. Yeah I'm listening, but I'm hearing you, but I'm not listening. You got a better chance of getting too Michael Parsons in the top ten than you do it you do or I hear you there that guy that's going to contribute immediately and right now. The way that this draft is shaping up, I have questions all the way through. It stops at

ten for me. Every other guy after that. I have a big question mark on even these offensive linemen. I think that all of these offensive linemen, that especially the guards that they're talking about, these guys should have a second round grade in any other in any other draft, because you don't have the number of quarterbacks at the top of this draft. Some of these guys would have failed completely out of the first round draft. And we're

talking as far as a grade or pick. There are teams that are going to reach significantly on drafts, and you talk about teams like the Jets, are other franchises that have multiple first round picks. You got some dancing partners up there, and I think that's why Jerry said, depending on who's on the other line and what deal can actually be made, because historically speaking, your draft picks haven't been able to go straight off the bus and play for you in the last couple of years. You'd

like to think that they have. So the actual capital that you think you're drafting the way is really it's going to pay off for you on the return because of his immediate ability to play. Right now, Can you afford to come out of this draft without having the depth that you need going into camp. You're not going to get all the depth out of the draft and

say all of it. I'm not saying all of it, but you need to feel some holes you have some gaping holes that if you decide to move up in the first round, you are not going to be able to feel even a lettle but not even not even with a Q tip QI ain't gonna be able to fill them home. So the the So let's go to

the wide receiver and let's go to the wide receiver position. Okay, wide receiver position, and this is a thin draft and wide receiver, yeah, I think so I thought it was you thought I'm for me, for the talent, for the talent, for a guy that can step in and be that's all I'm saying. Immediate impact guys. I think it's thin. I think a lot of those guys that you have are just developmental guys. You don't have a burner. The guy that is a burner is got an ACL So

let's let's let's talk about it, Williams. Right. And so if we're if we're saying a guy that I think that can come straight off the street and play it right now, it's the kid from Arkansas Burke. Okay, but I don't think he's a first round draft pick. You know, I would say high second if he falls down that far. That's that's just my opinion. But offensive line I know you need, but I'm thinking that you still can get offensive lineman if that's the holes that you're talking about

feeling in the second and third round. Also, So if based on that thinking, would it make more sense to trade down them maybe in another round, not out of the because for the reasons you just brought up, that's why I'm kind of thinking if you're gonna trade, maybe you trade down because you could because I'm thinking the

Travis Frederick deal they made in twenty thirteen. If you don't, you know, if you don't have a lot of first round grades, if you don't have twenty four first round grades, which typically maybe you don't anyway, right, you could trade back a few picks if there's a guy you still think you could get that you like, pick up an extra third whatever. And like I said, I said, you're

you're creating volume here. And it is a draft where there maybe there's not a lot of home run guys like you're saying, but it is a deeper draft because of COVID, because you guys had an extra year and now they're coming into the draft and and maybe this is a year where volume of picks works more. That's kind of where I'm at, more so than than trading up. If they had done more in free agency, I'd feel

better about moving up, honestly. And I think and I think the situation is fluid as well, because on draft night, if there's a guy that you've been looking at in the top ten, I thinking he would be it in top ten and he falls completely out because I don't know, Detroit goes up and picks a quarterback. Well, that's a

great point. And that's and maybe that's what Jerry's referring to, or maybe in part because he did say first three rounds, well maybe generally speaking, but that's what that's what happened with Ceedee Lamb. He just kind of fell to him. And maybe he's just talking about being flexible, like if a guy falls, like you said, maybe not twenty picks, trade up twenty picks, but enough picks where hey, you can jump up a little bit and get our guy. Uh,

maybe that's more realist. So Isaiah, put your jam hat on. I always have minds on. All right, we'll put it. We'll keep it on tight. Thinking you're at twenty four and you're sitting there and you're saying, look, if one of these what are you saying. I'm not put words in your mouth. What are you saying? At twenty four? I need to feel the guard position number one. First thing, First thing, I need to feel the guard. I need

to protect our most valuable asset. You're not thinking and establish our ability to score points, because if you can't run the ball, if you can't block, pass, block, this offense is yeah, and you and you lit you cut your right tackle and you're seeing that Terence Steel. Is that your left guard is Connor McGovern. I'm saying that at this point, and your right tackle is at least competitive and he's dependable. Is he dominant? No? Is he dependable? Yes?

What position do you have to feel? Left guard? Absolutely? Absolutely must feel left guard. And I think that that should be their number one priority because this team can only go as far as as this offense can actually score. We know we're in the scoring league now. I don't care how well this defense plays. I can't see them playing better than they play last year and turns. The ability to turn over the ball that was just a crazy year, right, So you have to be able to

score points, and we've seen how ineffective. This team is with running the ball with all the issues that we're president on the line last year, and if you can't rent the ball, I'm sorry. DA's not your man to sit back there and sling the thing all over the place. He's not so recognize that, identify it. Sorry, Cowboys Nation, don't be mad at me. That's the quarterback that's here. He is a baller when you provide him a running game. Well, I love playing the Devil's advocate. This is fun because

I completely I agree with that. But then on the other side of it, you have left tackle issues that reliability dependability issues, which your left tackle he's aging you. You're back in this pickle every year. So if you go back to the last season, was the biggest issue. Obviously Connor Williams had his issues. He's out of here now, but I think it was the durability of your left

tackle that really came back to bite you. Yeah, Tyrn missed six games, Yeah, six games and fifth fifteen, fourteen or fifteen the year before, and then there was a like a four or five year stretch where even this at least three starts. So like your swing tackle, I love Tyrn Smith he's gonna go to the Hall of Fame probably, But your swing tackle has to be prepared to start multiple games to your point, and every season

has to be prepared for it. I think the hardest decision that the Cowboys are going to have to make in the first round of this draft is making the decision either to trade up and grab a left tackle or a sure thing at the left guard position. I think that's gonna be the hardest decision they're got to make. I feel as if teams don't let left tackles really fall, it's just not a thing that happens, okay, but it should that present itself. I think that's the only thing

that will force them to move up. And if they decide to go up, they're gonna be faced with that shoot guard or tackle. If we draft the tackle, we still have that same hole in our office a line. So that's why I said, dang it, he can replace Tyrant as soon as Tyrant decides to shut it down.

But we don't want to piss off Tyrant. And at the same time, you know, this guy just be sitting behind them, adding no value to us, Like you can play god guard and start off and yeah, so that that's the only situation I can see them moving up to grab somebody. They better not doing it for a receiver. They better not doing it for a cornerback. They better not do it for a defensive end. It better be to sure up this line because you cannot be productive offensively.

I don't care who's your off as a coordinator. All right, you can bring marsh back as far as I concern, right and you will not move the ball unless you can run the ball in this offense. Now, I completely agree with what you just said, and I think it's left guard as well. But I just feel like the grade on those left guards are way too high. I think you can get a better left guard in the second round and you be okay um, I think even

at the left at the tackle position. I want to see what what ball has I mean, we drafted him. We just want to I just want to see. I mean, tyring, we still have Ni Seki. I hadn't heard anything about him. But I totally agree with you. But guess what. The car car values are way too high right now too. But if you need a whip, guess what you gotta pay it? No, for sure, Yeah, I mean that those hey, nothing but facts. But this is not me playing the

devil's aff here. If I'm going to trade up and get someone and this may send you over the over the rails here, I'm going to get Jordan Davis from from Georgia. I don't get I don't have a I don't have a problem with that. And let me just be clear about this. But you can't get him. Why because you gotta give up your whole draft class to get him. What he's been depends on where he falls. He trusts mock drafts. He typically has not gone past five, five, fifteen, sixteen. Yes,

you know he ain't going that far. Not possible. Not freaking name the last mammoth athlete that you've seen come across this league. Like, I think the way that they're putting these draft guys together saying that he's not in every down, yeah, thing is yes, two guys. Yes, I think that's impactful, and I think a lot of draft scouts are maybe weighing that. I'm hoping, come on, come on, Isaiah, don't give me that look. I'm trying to sell it. And I recognize and I love your sever There are

certain players that come across every generation every year. Whatever you want to say that you just you gotta grab him. The reason why because he works in every system. Yeah, he works in every system. There's not one team that's like, ah, we don't need that guy, Baltimore. We don't need. We don't need a three hundred and forty pound man that runs a four to seven. Yea, we don't need that.

And you know, and I don't know if we've talked enough about run defense here, like I because it was improved, Okay, in twenty twenty, it was the second most rushing yards they've ever allowed in the history of the franchise, so it was way better than that. But I want to say they gave up one hundred plus yards in like thirteen games last year. So I mean it was and a ton to San Francisco, And that's the last memory you have of this team was not stopping the run,

not running the ball, and not protecting Dak. So I don't have a problem with a big defensive tackle coming in that can help shore things up. That's the only person that I could see them moving up for us and let me kind of go back. But the reason why I haven't brought him up because I don't think it's even tangible to have to have a shot at him. Man, I just don't I hear you know. I'm a realist though.

Every single team, yeah can take him and utilize him immediately. Yeah, and if you trust the mocks, which maybe we shouldn't. But but the most practice thing, because I agree with you, guys, the most practical thing is, Hey, you sit and you wait at twenty four, and there's a guard that falls to you at twenty four that you feel great about and plugs probably the most glaring immediate hole that you have on your team. That's that's the most practical thing

to me. Twenty four it's fun to talk about moving around. Twenty four is just that great area in the first round that you just don't know what you're getting. I know we've got some quality at twenty four before Davis was twenty four, but we want we have to get a guy, I mean this guy, especially where we are with our depth and the depth chart isn't looking good in a lot of areas when you go through it.

I'm sorry, No, you're one hundred percent right. Twenty four okay, twenty twenty seven, twenty eight or so was Byron Jones. You hit on Byron Jones twenty seven was Taco Charlton, Like, you don't. It's not it's not an exact science. In the late first round. I mean, those top ten picks are great because you kind of know you're gonna get a stud. You don't necessarily know how it's going to pan out, you know. Yeah, I'm not gonna say Jordan Davis.

Yeah he'll be. He'll probably be in New York. As I'm looking at this list, you know, And I do everything I've been, I do everything not to have him be end up in New York. I don't want to see him in New York. I don't want to see him in Philly. He's gonna be there. I don't want to see him as a commander. And there are a lot of places he would work in Philly, right up the college. Yes, that's that's the kind of player they need.

But he is the kind of player that we need in the narrative have changed from the twenty twenty season when we were saying all we need is the middle of the world defense. Well they were eleventh and they you saw it with that got us. We still couldn't stop anyone. What you said, thirteen games with more than a hundred yards, we couldn't protect that. I mean that's right. I mean, let's they were. It was a good defense.

It was they were vastly improved. And but the biggest thing they did well was they turned the ball over. They turned you over. You know, there's the run game, big plays in the past game. Those things can still improve, for sure. I'm sure dan Quinn would agree with that. Like Drake says, I want that stuff to have him and but I don't think it's gonna happen. But what we're gonna do is tr take a break and we'll come back because I got a guy that we want to talk about. His name is TP. Coming up next

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the perfect or lens for you. See more, do more. Back on Talking Cowboys from the s WBC Mortgage Studios is Rob P Island Blue Bunnets. My man Isaiah standing back in the Champions in the drunk Uncle is back. He's in the building with his top guns on Rob P with the double B Maverick two coming out there. It is top Gun two, sorry Maverick. So guys, yes, talk about a top gun and Tony Pollard TP and I labeled this in the production outline lineup as the

Curious Case of Tony Pollard. And the reason I say that, guys, is that he is the one guy fan favorite, by the way, and it's just growing the momentum of love from Cowboy nation that he could be your RB one if you look at it. And even PF, and I call PF because I want to win the argument says that he is the highest rated running back. Guys. Do you see the Dallas Cowboys using Tony Pollard's strengths more in this season and given Ezekiel Elliott more of a what do you call that, not off days but a

little bit more rest. Do you see that starting to happen here in Dallas with Tony Pollard and Ezekiel Elliott. I think at this point I've got to see it to believe it. Yeah, I mean we say this every year about Tony, like he looks like he could do more, and then he plays thirty percent of the snaps something like that, and he was really good in his role, and he had a couple of games where he was

banged up too. But I think as long as Zeke is here, I think Zeke's the primary guy, and I think I think one thing I will say is, you know, Mike McCarthy talked about in training camp last year of getting more of a split to preserve Zeke for the playoffs. Load management, load management, basically NBA style. And there was

a stretch there where the run game was awesome. I mean, they were getting one hundred and fifty yards a game we the first month of the season, more or less, and Zeke's carries were seventy four and Tony's were fifty eight, and it was that damn near getting close to a fifty fifty split, and maybe that's what they were trying to do. And then and then Zeke gets banged up and the production just wasn't the same and the offensive line didn't play as well, and they're just you know,

it just didn't It just didn't click. But I personally, I'm surprised that they played Zeke as much as they did in certain stretches when he clearly looked like he was struggling with that need that he was dealing with. And he's a warrior and he doesn't want to come out and I respect the hell out of him for that, but I was a little surprised there wasn't more Tony in certain spots last year. To answer your question, it's no,

it's no. It's a no for me. Reason being, there are elements to a TP's game that are undeveloped yet that he hopefully and I'm sure he's working on it this offseason. You can't afford to take Zeke out of the game for and those areas I'm speaking to his pass pass blocking. People look at Zeke and say, oh, he's lost a step, or oh, he's not as explosive as he used to be. Here, Oh he's not pulling away from people like he used to be. Yeah, but he's keeping people off of your number one back, and

that is Dak Prescott. And there is no replacing a running back who can pass block Maurice Jones. Drew's one of the unsung heroes in the NFL's history simply because, if not simply because in fact he was a great running back, but because of the fact he was able to pass block, he kept people off his quarterbacks back

and that is the same thing that Zeke does. He gets all the paychecks because of his abilities to play an encompassing game in terms of being able to run the ball, in terms of being on a catch the ball at the backfield and be able to block. He is a part of the protection. So when you have off as a coordinator named Kellen Moore who likes to throw the ball around more than he likes to run the ball, you can't afford to take the running back

off the field. Who's able to be that sixth man on the line, the six man up front to hold the guys off of your quarterback when you put TP up there. That's not to say that he's unable or uncapable of or incapable of actually, you know, doing a good job at the pass blocking position. To roles, he's

nowhere near as effective as Zeke. So if you have a tendency to put TP out there, teams are like, who's back there, Okay, we could bring some pressure, Versus if you put Zeke back there, it's like we could send somebody, but he ain't gonna get to him because Zeke's gonna pick him up. That's the mentality, that's the element of the game that most fans don't identify and don't recognize that going to the decision making in terms of how much playing time these guys get. Running game

was ineffective. You have to pass more. If I have to pass more, that means we have to protect more. That means that we need Zeke in the game. Now, didn't you see at certain points in the season that Tony Pollard just added an extra dimension to your running game? This undeniable. Sure, some of the things that he does, I mean, just his quick twitch ability from the line of scrimmage. Even being able to use him in pass coverage. Now, that's where I was really shocked that he wasn't used

as much in the past in the passing game. You know, I think last year three hundred and thirty seven yards receiving. That's not a whole lot. I mean though, right, because when he's in the backfield, they're gonna bring pressure so he can't get out. He can't get out into his route. Because as soon as you see him in the backfield, if it's a passing down and you see those guys going to a pass, I'm sending somebody. I'm sending somebody. There's a thing called a green dog, right, so you're

familiar with familiar with, Okay, most fans maybe not. Green dog means that as soon as I see these guys pass black, as soon as I see everybody consumer, I'm sending a guy, even though that wasn't my initial planity your initial as a linebacker, initially you weren't called to blitz. But if you see that guy even sit back there and it's a pass, go why Because I'm confident that you can run through that running backs chess or get

around him or whatever. Throw him out the club like Jazz Jeff on fresh press and get to the quarterback. If Zeke is back there, I'm not making that same call. But how much does that have to do with scheme though? I mean as far as how you're gonna use Tony Pollard and I'm on it, and I said this on the last week's show about using him like Deebo Samuel's and I'm the same schematics as far as height, weight,

all of those things. The way that the league is going, you're running back your receivers are gonna have to do a little bit of both. We saw how they use CD Lambs sometimes as a running back as well. You want to have the explosion, explosion and diversity in your offense to be able to use your guys like that. When you talk about Zeke, you're really talking about Zeke

as an extra offensive lineman instead of running back. Well, I mean, I mean, but there's so many we know I healthy Zeke the ball, of course, we know it. Healthy ze can catch the ball and out the backfield. We also know a healthy Zeke can keep guys off a deck. That's the that's the trifecta. That's the reason why he gets paid when he plays all That's why he plays all the snaps. We can't say that about

TP yet. Right, TP, he catched the ball out the backfield, he could run the ball very effectively, in explosive right the element the wild factor, But the blocking hasn't came yet, so you can't rely on him the same way you can rely on Zeke. Now, if TP added that element to his game, if somehow someway he all of a sudden became a dominant pass blocker, then as a conversation, then it's conversation. But as long as that third element is missing, you can't take you can't afford to take

Zeke out the field from majority of the game. He's been great in his role as a change of pace. To your point, heck, and I will say there's been times where he's been asked to carry the load when Zeke's been out or banged up, and it's been tough sledding for him too. I mean, sometimes when you got that package of plays as a change of pace, it's easier. But I'm with you, like, I think we could stand

to see more of Tony Pollard. And I wonder, like you got me thinking about you know, Zeke's can almost serve as like an extra linement. What about two back sets where you see both guys more. I got curious and I looked it up. That was only two percent of the time they went to twenty one personnel last year. There's twenty six snaps according to Sharp Football Stats. And of course you know three wide receiver sets eleven perconnel they're going that's two thirds of the time twelve personnel

about twenty five percent of the time. They don't do it very much, but they do play off each other very well, Zeke and Tony, and you could think maybe you could you could use more of that if you're Kelling Moore. Yeah, And I think about the off the front office. They really have their hand in the lion's mouth right now, because with Zeke's contract, it's impossible to get out of this season. So obviously he's gonna be there.

And when I talk about Tony Pollard and him playing, he's going to be at the negotiation table here after this season. So you're gonna have to make a decision at the running back position. And oh, by the way, Ceedee Lamb and also Trey Vun Diggs, you're going to have to start thinking about those big contracts that are coming down as well. And David Hellman wrote a awesome

article on Dallas Cowboys dot Com about this matter. But I just feel as though when you look at it's from an organizational standpoint, you're gonna have to relieve some of that pressure from even a salary standpoint. And we've seen the way that this organization functions when you press him on salary. And that's why I think that Tony Pollard, you have to try and see what he has in those said try affect us to see how you can

use this guy in the future. You have to be thinking of the future if you're the Cowboys at the running position. Running back position, that's right, he's a free agent after next season, everybody thinks ze Zeke's salary is gonna be not palatable after one more season. So yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting how they could look in a

year from now. But when in an offseason where you lose Amari Cooper and yeah, you're probably going to go in the draft and find your receiver to help, we're talking about holes in depth and trying to replace production.

It sure seems like an opportunity to try to get Tony Pollard more involved, even if and if it's not an every down thing like you said, because you're right, like Zeke's Zeke's pass protection, that might have been the thing people talked about the most last year because he was banged up, He was not himself, He wasn't as productive. He still he still had impact, but he was still I mean some of his highlights best highlights were just decleting guys and giving Dak an extra second. Yeah, doing

what you can do, and we saw that. But I'm I'm just saying for Tony Poller, this is with all of the love that he gets and all of the potential that he has to be explosive in this offense, you would think that this season, especially with the gaping holes that you assume that you have at the wide receiver position that you can scheme for him. You know that two back set that you're talking about split backs. Yes, yeah, you can do that if you have a solid offensive line.

I mean a lot, and I think and they had a silent offensive they do. And and debos different too, debos debos built like him tight end. You know, you don't call you debo if you're skinny, so like it's piece like. So I think he's six foot just two

hundred pounds, just maybe over two hundred two twelve. Okay, I'm just saying most of them, the guys who were coming coming to hit him or what, they're coming from five yards depth at least free all right, If he say he's five yards in the backfield right there, they're three yards on the balls. So they're coming eight yards downhill and they're weighing what two thirty two fifty at least at least And this is all thirty twos, This

is all thirty two teams are dealing with this. And the thing that I think the Cowboys have to find is another explosive weapons with what they lost. And that's why I point to him being that missing will and maybe that's what everyone else isn't thinking about that they have plans for Tony Pollitt in the future and with everything else that's coming down the line with I don't know. With with these contracts man, it's things are about to get sticky him. He is on oad on how they

how they maneuver with it. I mean, I'm just looking at the future. Dog got me. There's some bl land minds up ahead. But guy, if he if he has a big year, it could be like Jalen Brunson last night. It's like, I don't know if we could pay his next contract fast enough. Poor MAVs man, I don't be a tough I don't know if you sign him. I don't know if you got well, I know you are people like the NBA Playoffs is just off the chain

right now in the Mavericks. That game last night was incredible, great And I'm sorry guys, did adio Guys go to the boxing match on sunny He was a boxing match. What didn't have the chain? He didn't go. I haven't been in a while. Last one I went to was a pack y'all fight. Okay, Yeah, Errol Spence Junior not been an er Spence fight. You gotta go it is it is turned into the next one's gonna be nice. Yeah, it's it is turned into something that at and T Stadium.

That's really nice. Y'all. Man, all of Dallas shows up and it's been a great weekend of sports, not only for the Spence fight, but MAVs get to win. And hey man, we've been talking TCT all day today. Join us next week is Kyle finds his way from I don't know where he is, but somewhere sandy and hot. Where in the world is Kyle? Where in the world is how yo was? We Join us next Tuesday A talkie Cowboys, Get it up, Get it out, Mama. They

did it again later. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.