Talkin' Cowboys: Top 5 Position Battles

Mortgage studios at the Star in Frisco. As the off season continues to roll on for Dallas Cowboys Tion, we chop him without Isaiah here in the same it's not I mean, it's so Isaiah's going to be flying in here much like we did for those of you loyal listeners out there. You'll remember back to the first in person episodes that we ever did, Isaiah forgot that we were doing him back to back days and he came just flying in like ninety five miles per hour down

highway or what would that be, I thirty five from Willisville. Sure, uh, and he came flying into the show. He's gonna do something similar to that here over the next couple of minutes. And I'm sure he's listening so Isaiah stand back. We'll join us shortly. But we do have Rob Phillips Cowboys Insider professional football analyst, and we can say that now even more so for HECKM. Harrison because he has made his Dallas Cowboys dot Com debut and it is a

good read. I read it at least twice this week because I read it while I was out of town, and then I read it last night to kind of get my thoughts right and get the preparation right for the show on Dallas Cowboys dot Com last Wednesday. You can go find it. I just tweeted the link out eight under the Radar standouts from Cowboys ot as. It really is a good article, and Rob he did a nice job of kind of laying things out. Because OTAs are underway, we'll have some more throughout the week to

talk to you about. But what have we seen so far from the Cowboys as they have gotten on the field. A lot of work in shorts and helmets, noe pads. Yet we'll do that I think in Oxnard, if and when that's officially announced. But like Hecma wrote about, and go check it out because it's a great piece. There's still stuff to see. You can see how guys are moving around. You can you can see it where guys are lining up, and if you want to draw conclusions

from that, you can. Now, we're only getting one ota per week, and this week it's Thursday, so we gotta wait till Thursday to see the I know, I know they shoveled things around this week, but you know, we watch. We watched the offense that was out there. There were some guys missing, and we gotta peek at the defense. So that was fun to see, you know what I was trying to do. It's not right through such an optimistic lens because you have to understand that it is

just sotas. They are in just shorts in Jersey. So I'm not about to put anyone in the Hall of Fame based off of that. But it really was some positive signs from a few guys, I mean, defensive line wise, And I had a fan pointed out to me that, you know, of the eight players, four of them were defensive linemen, and it guess there's a lot of my attention was on the defensive line. But it was really good to see some of the guys that we have

question marks around actually in action. Seeing these guys you know, move basically work on one on one with Quinn, you just realize that this defense man there's a new infusion of energy with this group that obviously you need to have that you can be in a situation where you finish as bad as you did last season, but really some great signs from some guys that you're looking to make key contributions in the fall. Name some of those

guys that that kind of stuck out to you. I know you highlighted like eight separate players in your article, but the majority of them being on that defensive line. I think that's just a byproduct of one, there being so many new faces there and of course drawing your

attention to that. But two, it's just easier to get a read on those types of guys in these sort of drills as opposed to maybe a secondary player, which is it's much tougher to kind of read right well, Brent Urban one is, when you see that group, the defensive line group together, Brent Urban is someone that sticks out like a sore thumb because of his size. He

is just a big person. But then just his ability to move, you know, you realize that from where we were last year with guys like Antoine Woods that was smaller in stature guy even Crawford a bigger guy, but not as big as Urban and so I just think that his presence on that defensive line, You're gonna see a lot of you know, momentum with this group as the preseason going into the regular season, just because of his presence. He's a great example of the additions they've

made on the D line this offseason. They've they've added a lot of guys who've played in multiple schemes, who can play multiple spots. He's been in a hybrid scheme in Baltimore. He's been he can you know, he's an end who can kick inside. Carlos Watkins can do that too. Terrell Basham can stand up or put his hand in the ground. Ocia dicazooa is played everywhere on the D line at UCLA. So you kind of get a hint based off of the additions they made of what dan

Quinn wants to do. I mean, we talk about that four three cover three scheme and Mike McCarthy said, look, I don't think we're gonna change too much of what we did on defense last year. That might make fans clinch, right, they just need to execute better. I think what they felt like was by the end of the season they started to get the production they want in some aspects, especially taking the ball away. Now come in with Dan Quinn and kind of refine those things and bring in

his own concepts too. But yeah, some of the d lineman you know, catch your eye. I was watching the linebackers, you know, I just wanted to see where guys were lining up, and for what it's worth, Jalen Smith and Laton Vanderesh, no surprise, are the two linebackers you know with the first team. That's what you want to call it, and typically that's not uncommon. Might very well be what we see week one, but that's not uncommon for veterans to take the rookies spots or whatever with first second

team in these in these OTA practices. Now, you said a couple of things there that I kind of want to put a pin in and come back to. I wanted to ask another question about Brent Urban. I mean, six foot seven, three hundred pounds. He played a lot of defensive tackle throughout his career, but everything that I've heard is him maybe slipping outside and playing on that edge. I mean, he had an eighty three plus run defense grade on PFF last year in one hundred and eighty

rush defense snaps. So my question is do you think he plays inside or do you play he plays the majority of his snaps outside, because I think that could play a factor into whether or not he will be on the fifty three man because they only take five of each. It's a good question. I mean, I would think with d Laws you're left end, you're probably seeing him kick inside at least on first second down and then third down or clear passing situations. You've got your

best four rushers on the field. That's what I would expect. And I agree with what you just said, Rob, But I think Urban is so multifaceted, and which you talked about it his ability to play the one, play, the three, play the five when you ask those questions about the defense and not completely changing to the four three looks,

still using some variations of that three four. A guy of his size is what is prototypical in a three four defense, being able to be a two gap guy with size six seven, three hundred pounds and able to hold up two guys to allow linebackers to read and react. So I think that is what is you know, the thing that he has the feather in his cap. Basically, I'm just interested to see because I whenever I watched him on film, the best tape he had was inside.

And then the first thing I had heard whenever he showed up was, Hey, he's going to kick outside for us? And which is fine? You probably both. He probably will. Maybe he may be your Tyrone Crawford veteran replacement where we have a guy like maybe an Osao Diggi Zooa on the inside, yes, who can fill that role as

a rookie. Now, you also said not changing a whole lot from a defensive standpoint, And my question to you is, if that is the mindset from Mike McCarthy in this entire coaching staff, how is that possible with a new defensive coordinator, a new energy brought in, how do they execute that at least have higher execution on a defense If they're going to try and run things the same way we coaches, not divulging what they're gonna do is pretty much right typical of coaches. And so is it

just a big smokescreen? I assume it would be. Well, when you look at the league in general, a lot of teams play a variation of all things. You know, it's all depending on the amount of receivers, you know,

to nickel coverages and so forth. So you know, if you have to be multifaceted in your defensive approach, no one plays just you know, obviously you have your base that you you play, and I think their base is going to be a four three just all things being considered, but they have to be able to play multiple sets

versus team. So I just I think that whole argument versus going to one over another, it's just being overblown because when it comes down to camp, you're going to see all kinds of looks, you know, right up until that first week. Yeah, I just don't think it's this rigid they're a pure four three base. Every every defense in the league pretty much is now a hybrid where

you're doing all kinds of things. And actually McCarthy said recently, don't get caught up so much in four three three fords about the techniques and so you know, you're going to see a little bit of everything, just like you see from a lot defenses. And when you look at

Dan Quinn's background. He has coached three four schemes. He has been in hybrid schemes when he was in Miami with Nick Saban, a three four based scheme in New York with the Jets, So he doesn't he's he's he's been around a lot of different disciplines, so I think you're going to see a nice mix of that, And really I don't McCarthy was I wouldn't say defiance the word last year, but I feel like last year it wasn't so much about in his mind, we did this

big scheme change and it was a failure. It was just they didn't execute well enough by until maybe towards the end of the season. Now, the run defense was a problem, but he didn't feel like there was so much on the players in terms of volume. I don't know. I think they tried to do too much personally, but I think he felt like from an execution standpoint, it got better by December, and now you can try to build off of that and hopefully have some better communication

than what you said in the off season. I think Dan Quinn's a big part of that because because under Mike Nolan, it just it wasn't getting done based on the off season work they had, and it was virtual and it was new, so that's you know, that was a challenge and I appreciate all of that, man, but the learning curve was not there. Okay, let's just keep it real. And you know the way that they looked, especially in certain situations. You just go back to the

Cleveland game. I mean, like, duh, of course they weren't getting it. Yeah, teams going for three hundred yards rushing against you. And now he're talking about now you're in a situation where you are going to go back to the same defense as before. And I think the fan base is just asking what's going to be the difference between last year and this year? Hopefully as personnel, Hopefully

as personnel, hopefully as simplifying the scheme. Hopefully guys are comfortable, and that's why you bring in your guys from Atlanta that know your system, no the terminology, and can execute and help other guys execute on the fly. I just want to kind of clarify this for any of those listening that may be asking the same action as I am, because I've heard this a couple of times from Mike

McCarthy and it may just be smoke screens. He needs to choose another smoke screen, I think if that's the case, But how much impact does he have on this defense? How much, say, does Mike McCarthy as the head coach have, even though he's an offensive mind and he always has been, how much input and impact does he have whenever he hops in those rooms as a head coach he makes any decision he wants to make sure. But I think when you hire a guy with dan Quinn's credentials, I

think he's gonna have a lot of autonomy. I mean, you look at the draft itself, and what they did from a personnel standpoint is they found dan Quinn players. So I think from that standpoint, I think dan Quinn's going to have what he needs to run his scheme. Now, is Mike McCarthy going to spend a bunch of time in that room. I don't really think so. I think probably more. He's more of a walk around coach anyway.

But if he's going to spend more time somewhere, depending on how things go, I would think it'd be in the offensive side of the room. And generals, generally speaking, I believe head coaches coach the coaches, you know, and just making sure that things operate at an optimal level.

You know, obviously, if there's anything a scheme wise in game, he may have some tidbits, but you know, I believe that he's fully confident in Dan Quinn and his ability to direct this defense towards better, you know, better statistical numbers than we had last year. Lots of positives coming out of OTA's with some of these individuals hanging around. What about Dak Prescott? What are we seen from QB one as he's back on the field, he is throwing

We've seen pictures. What were you guys able to see as a media whenever you walked into the Ford Center and we're able to kind of get your eyes on Dak for the first time in a uniform and quite some time. I did the blitz for Sunday Night on Friday, and what I said was, if you were under a rock for six months, okay, just see somebody's under a rock. They didn't see anything about the Cowboys last year. You're good for you lucky, I know, and you come out

where do I find a rock? You come out of that rock and you think the Cowboys might have won the Super Bowl. They didn't, unfortunately, and you saw Dak Prescott practice in that red jersey and you said, wow, he looks like Dak Prescott. I don't. I don't think you would have known that he had the injury he had. Now again, it's helmets and shorts. He's not getting any

sort of sort of pass rush against him. They're keeping him out of that, which is really smart, by the way, because you got young players, especially on the defensive line, learning the pace of practice. You don't want anybody rolling up on that one hundred and sixty million dollars ankle, but from from a pocket presence, rolling out, making throws on the run, handoffs, everything. He just he looks confident

on that ankle. Heck. Now, I gotta ask you, Rob, how do you like as far as your your worries about Dak, knowing the kind of player that he is, what are some of your concerns coming into this season, just knowing of that horrific injury that he had. What

do you what are you concerned? If I had a concern right now, I think it would just be the timing for him, because he's been October since he was really on the field practicing timing with his receivers and then but I think by training camp he's gonna get that sorted out. Now. People made not made a big deal, but there were some plays he missed. There was an interception, there was a pass broken up. He takes chances in these practices. He always before the injury, he wants to

kind of test. He even said it afterwards, like I want I want my receivers to know I'm gonna look for him, I'm gonna try to fit in a spot. So I wouldn't read into that, but I do think there's probably a bit of Russ there. And he talked about a psychological element there in terms of trusting his ankle. And again, I think by week one he says he's probably out of that already by now, but I think by week one there should be, you know, no second thoughts about you know, the health of his ankle and

doing anything he needs to do on it. I love when we got an opportunity to listen to the conference call with Delta, Scholtz and Dalton Shows talking about the velocity of his ball and nothing changed from that aspect, And you know, it's I think it's the muscle memory of it for him as a quarterback that I think it makes it really easy going into his sixth season knowing what it is to prepare and be an NFL quarterback. I like everyone else, the obvious thing would be what

happens once he gets pressure? Is he going to be apprehensive about leaving the pocket? Is it going to be on his mind? And right now, the way that he's practicing in shorts, it doesn't look like there's any residual effect there. Mentally, My thing for Dak is taking the next step. You know, the pressure is going to be on him because of the contract, and people are going to be Every throw is going to be under the microscope.

If you want to get into the realm of the Roethlisburgers, the Rogers, the Wilson's, the Mahomes, the elite group, the elite group, be more cerebral in your approach, meaning you know, if calling audibles, when you catch a defensive coordinator in the wrong coverage you see them trying to do the package, is harrying up to the line of scrimmage and snapping

the ball, those little nuanced things of football. I think those are the things that he has to improve upon so that he can be elevated to that next level of quarterbacks go for Sorry, I just to piggyback on that. I think by the time Romo got to like year twenty fourteen, when they got to the divisional round, that does catch year, he had completely gained the perfect understanding

of his offense. He was like he was like a pilot that had every He knew everything there, what he'd seen, every coverage, and he was perfectly in control of that scheme. And I think for Dak it's just a matter of continuing to be in that scheme, and I think having Kellen Moore and having that carryover will help him there. But that's a shame about Romo's career is that once he got to that point twenty fifteen, then the collarbone

injuries and then it was over. You know, there is a little something that does worry me about that, just because there was so much uncertainty around his contract situation and because of the injury, that could have been his time to you know, hit the playbooks and really kind of get to that point of understanding, and he may have done that. We'll see that pretty early on in the season if we can kind of see a scout difference of the kind of sill excuse me approach that

you were talking about a moment ago. I think that's something that would stick out pretty early on Week one, two or three. Is there any worry about longevity though, with the ankle, with the physicality of this game in the longer season, because turning right back around, he's going to face hits. At some point he will be hit.

Is there a chance that not maybe not Week five or six, but later in the season you start kind of worrying about that ankle and whether or not it is ready to take a staunch hit like he did of course last last year. Well, I think in this

league you're always one hitaway. It's one hitaway. I mean, Dak looked indestructible through how seasons, you know, and it just it was a freak play other than maybe taking a couple of shots to the helmet and you've got to get a check for concussions, like he hadn't had anything, and he's still that guy. The ankle strong. Everything you hear, the ankle is strong. And I think one thing that would make Cowboys fans hopefully feel better about it is

just think about Alan hearns okay. Alan Hearns had basically the same injury January of twenty nineteen. By OTAs of that year, he was on the field doing everything everything at the receiver position where you really got to rely on your legs and your speed. That's not Dak's game, or it doesn't have to be, and he doesn't have to be a guy that scrambles as much as he does in the future. He's talked about that. I don't really have a lot of concern about that. I think

the ankle is strong and he's gonna be okay. Hopefully the offensive line stays healthy because they've had their injury concerns. Maybe if that's a concern I have, it's like they've got great lineman, can they stay healthy too. Did we hear any or see anything off of ly O'Collins Tyrant Smith health wise this week or was there really relatively no impact from what they did in OTAs They were there a little bit, right, Yeah, they were a little bit. Yeah,

Britt Brown and bands baby side. That's fun than practice itself. Yeah, I've heard. Yeah, he does a great job. I feel like training camps where we're really going to get an injury update on those two if I would have to guess, But there's plenty of guys that we were looking at for OTAs, two of which former dan Quinn guys. Who out of the Falcons team is going to make the

biggest impact as a Dallas Cowboys under dan Quinn. We're gonna talk about that and debate when we come back on Talking Cowboys, Presented by Geico Honey, Big News, Gary, Are you okay? Oh? I'm not Gary anymore. I'm Jackie Flash. What see? I want the latest smartphone, But the best deals are only for new customers. So to get a new customer deal, I changed my name to Jackie Flash. Okay, But the best smartphone deals at AT AT and T are

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and in person. That's what I was going to say. From inside the SWBC Mortgage studios. We do have Isaiah stand Bank joining us. Oh yeah, there's a nice smile for the camera. Did you just want a four day weekend? What was going on here? Sorr? Nah? See, what had happened was what had happened was well we were commune from the last show to now I was coming back from Man, stop it so happened? Stop it? You know that kids business. There's been a lot going on. Man, Wow,

you hear this? So we're not a priority. No, it's not at all. But I mean I thought I didn't thought he was the start and we wasn't that what the gladdest night with other pips'. But then you reversed it. You just reversed it. Right now. All you needed was a cape and some smoke. The way you just came right now kind of wanted to just basking it for a second. Don't try to divert this on Kyle. That's you. No, no miscommunication on that one. That's on me. I want

your car. I just I want the car you drive because this happened when the the what was it outside the side the Tostito show that you get outside? Yeah, and you just made it smooth. I mean it was like, I'm not saying you spent it over here, was't gonna see anything. But there's a underground tunnel. Okay. I was gonna tell you underground tunnel about that exclusive line has

been working. But I was, man, I see you're talking about it, talking about Dak and shopping and talking about you know that the bands Brown with the bands and those are fun, right, Yeah, I spent too much time on those. Yeah, I know about him. You know too

much about him. You know what else you know about was that whether you're watching from home or cheering in the stands, with lenses, you can see every exciting play book, an appointment with your local or experts and find the perfect as Laura lens for you see more two more on talking cowboys. Had to have you for that. Yeah, that's really what I was coming in for m oh for sure. Now you can leave, you're out here, Thanks man.

I hope everybody had a great Memorial Day weekend. Of course, we would be remiss if we did not salute all the men and women of our armed forces around the country who have given the ultimate sacrifice and those of you who have just served so that weak we kid do things like this and talk freely and speak freely

and of course enjoy the great game of football. So we salute you all those servicemen and women out there on this Memorial Day talking about of course OTA's and running down what OTA's had in store this last week. We will see more this week from Inside the Star. But got a question on Twitter, and this is what we're going to take as our mail bag Monday segment. V Amir on Twitter, who does great work and has

always sent us fantastic questions. He said, which former Falcons free agent will make the most impact for the Dallas Cowboys in year one? And We're gonna throw Dan Quinn out on this question because I would still kind of consider him in that group of former head coach of the Atlanta Falcons who is now the defensive coordinator. But Kean O'Neil and demonte Kazie, of course, both in the secondary, at least while they were in Atlanta, But we might

see a couple changes there. Who makes the biggest impact, Rob And we'll start with you, because you had a great piece on Kean O'Neil and his switch to linebacker. Thank you, thank you. I'll go with him. I'll go with him because I think we've talked about identity for this defense and what this defense need. They need an edge, they need a physicality, and you watch tape of him in Atlanta. That's what he brought. Man. He brought the wood,

he brought some big hits. He brought another run defense stopper, a guy that played safety but was in the box a lot. And he's gonna beat down more just like he you know, in terms of this new linebacker role or this hybrid role, whatever he is. I think he's gonna bring more of what they need in terms of attitude and try and develop a personality. But I think both of them very well could be essentially weak one starters. So it's a good question. I mean, Casey probably, I

mean on paper starting free safety, is that fair? Yeah? No, that's that's very fair. Yeah, but well you talk about Neil. One of the things that you just points out that on the roster has him at two fifteen to thirteen. He's a lot bigger than that. You could tell that he's put it. He's packed on some weight, but very mobile. Had had an achilles as well, but you don't see

any residual X from that. He talked about his role on this defense and where he's gonna be and knowing that there's a simplified approach to dan Quinn's defense and what's going to be demanded of him, and I think that's what handles all of the pressure footing these guys. You have a clearly defined role within this defense, and he knows as the rover, as the nickel linebacker, hooks, curls, flat areas where he needs to be. And so the tight ends in the NFL right now just way too good.

You know. You we go back always to the Levonte David because they won the Super Bowl. But what Levonte David did against Kelsey was phenomenal and probably couldn't have been done if the Chiefs are clicking on all cylinders in the Super Bowl. So look, just knowing that he has a grasp of his defense I think gets him a leg up against everyone else. Yeah, I think so.

I think the fact that we're talking about the front seven so much this offseason, I think he's gonna have the greatest impact, you know with that right um, I think they're I think team's inability to really drop back. What we're hoping that their inability is to be able to drop back throw the ball is going to lead to the impact that Neil's gonna have. Being able to be in that box. And everybody's talking about this size. You don't have to be big. I don't know why

this keeps coming up. If you're in the box, guy, you need to be big. But if you're you're outside the boxer kind of on the edge, you don't have to be big. You just have to be explosive. And the thing that dan Quinn's gonna ask you to do is play hard and play fast. And you just talked

about his responsibilities. He has a very very you know, very detailed responsibility in this In his defense, he's asked to do those two things, and I think that's gonna be the expectation that I think he'll be able to deliver on those things. And I'm sorry, no people talk, you know, ask the question to him about coming from safety to linebacker and if there was going to be any problems with doing that, and he pointed out, as

I've been a linebacker my whole career. I've been I was a linebacker in high school, as a linebacker in college, and so you know, making that move, I think, you know it's not enough. I guess people are making too

much of it. Yeah, very much. So, I mean, when when you think about the safety position, I don't know how much people really understand when you're when you're playing safety, you got when by the time guys get you there at speed, all right, So by the time guys gets either at full speed, whether that's a running back you know, getting through the first two layers, or whether that as a receiver running their routes on air, pretty much you know, you have to deal with the best of what that

person has to provide. Now you roll it down into the box and all of a sudden, I'm putting I'm putting more guys in less space, right, and these guys that don't have the ability to get up and use their athleticism to the highest power. So I think it puts him in a better position than he has been in the past. He did say he's gonna put on a little bit of weight, like five pounds, Yeah, something like that. Yeah, but which you're losing camp probably that'll

be camp Wait shedded. Now does it worry you at all? His injury history ACL tear in twenty eighteen, town Achilles in twenty nineteen. I know there's not a ton of pressure on him to come in and be a game changer. He could be. He was a former first round pick. He's somebody that, at least in Atlanta was expected to be a game changer. Those expectations aren't the same here.

But now with the switch to linebacker, a position that has been very well known around this organization, speci typically for how fragile they can be, does his injury history throw up a red flag and is switched to that spot? Nah? Not for me. I mean take it from somebody who's had a ton of injuries. I mean, each injury is his own deal, right, it's his own isolated an incident. You know, you know, you said it a little while ago. You know, everybody's one play away from being hurt and

being injured. I should say, but you know, in regards to him and his achilles, I mean I've had the achilles, right, I came back bigger, faster, stronger. So I mean that mean that's the technology, science, all the stuff medicine has come so far. These guys and the type of player he is. He plays with his hair on fire, right, so you put him in that box and say, hey, go go, he's gonna do that. So I don't think that the injuries. You know, whether it's Dak or whether

it's Collins or whether it's Smith, it doesn't matter. Everybody has a chance to get and to get injured. You just pray and ask you know that it doesn't happen. Well, we're gonna have to definitely just rethink achilles injuries altogether.

Because demonte Kikes I had to stop and I had asked myself, like, did wait a minute, didn't he have AI He's a guy that you think is going to be on the sideline with Brett Brown working on bands, getting himself ready for camp, and he's out there flying around and so you know, maybe, like I said, modern medicine man is phenomenal in guy's ability to not be have an injury like this be so not a death sentence, but something that holds your career back for years before

you can get back on the ground again. Barry Church came back better player after after his injury. Neil, I think he played fifteen games for Atlanta last year, so I think those injuries are behind him. He did have an ACL I think the year before that to me, you're looking at Kaze coming off the year before. But he looked good. To Hex's point, he looked good in this workout, A little bit of a surprise that he was doing as much as he was. So no, I don't don't. I don't think there should be any real

concerns about especially Neil's injury. Well, he's shocked specifically talking about because he nine snaps short of a thousand and twenty nineteen. I mean, he was a heavy usage in that Atlanta second area and it was his best year by far. Had an eighty straight up PF grade in twenty nineteen, allowed ten receptions on nineteen targets, which is just over fifty percent. Of course, for those of you math nuts out there listening, eight hundred and eighty of

his snaps came at free safety. So you mentioned in the in the beginning of the segment. Is he your free safety right now? Is because I keep seeing on Twitter and a lot of people are saying that there's not a free shafety on this roster. I disagree. I think Demante Casi is your free safety right now, alongside Donovan Wilson, who could also play a little bit of the free means the strong, but he could play some

free as well. How flexible is that position right now as we look at it today, I think they've got some guys they feel I think they feel better about that position personnel wise than they did last year. Now we'll see, we'll see. I mean we got we got to camp last year. Feel pretty good about haw Hawk Clinton Dix exactly why exactly they did exactly finger he just throws it right in there. Weekend to camp, he was on the sideline and then he was cut by

mid Seaton. Did he make it out of training No? No, yeah, I'm forgetting. Yeah. There were a couple other guys that made it out of training camp but didn't make it through the season. Exactly. So Daryl Worley, Everson Griffin traded, oh my gosh, not the best free class didn't work out, But look, dan Quinn, guys, I think having an understanding of his schemes important. Geron Curse is somebody that they think you talked about ability to cover tight ends from

that safety position. They think he can do that. He was actually running with the ones last week. Donovan Wilson. They're mixing and matching at this point. I wouldn't read anything into that, but yeah, I think they feel a bit better about the personnel that they they've got compared to last year. We'll see what happens. It's very very early,

So Isaiah, what are realistic expectations? Because the last thing we want to do is a show is get ahead of ourselves, kind of like we did last year where we were riding up a Defensive Player of the Year trophy for Everson Griffin. Everything but the inscription was already done on that thing by the time he got signed. So we are already hats and we were we were partying. Uh, where where do the expectations live for both of these guys? Because he and Neil we've talked about them and where

they fit into the scheme. Of course they've got a head start there. Should we expect them to be starter caliber? I think you can expecting to be starter caliber just from the standpoint of the leadership right where they're coming from. They understand the concept, they understand exactly what you know, Coach Quinn's putting down. You know so, But in terms of being just your longevity guy who just plays, you know, all all seventy snaps, I don't see that. I don't

see that whatsoever. I think at the second level we're going to be seeing, you know, a whole bunch of guys coming in. I think in the secondary we're gonna be seeing a little rotation as well. You know, we got that. We got six four Israel sitting back there. You know that, we can't forget about that. Dude's a beast.

I cannot wait to see him with pads on. So I think if you have the resurgence of some of these young guys that are coming in here, that are going to be fighting um to and being competitive, you know, this environment is going to change. The environment is going to become a lot more competitive. So I think you'll seee the leadership being asked of those older gentlemen and

then these young guys coming in and challenging them. And I really believe that the strength of this defense may be in some of their sub packages and bringing in you know, fresh guys and Israel the rookie going in and free safety and just mixing it up with the different looks, you know, but having guys like Kazie and Neil on your team to be able to let the learning curve be a lot less for your younger guys. That's where I think that the divide is made up.

You know, it's just being able to get these guys coached up on the field and answer some of these questions in real time that obviously you'll get in the classroom as well. But just realizing where we are as far as how athletic the linebacker room is now, how athletic, how much more athletic, or how much more confidence you have in the safety positions, All of those things I think are relative. But again, let's slow down, gym shoes.

Let's not do it again. Let's not done again, because we know that during camp a lot of this in live action. Right now, it's all friendly fire, but when it goes comes down to live action, that's where we're going to see some of these guys, you know, make separation Okay, get the pads on. Oh yeah, that's gonna be a big key to whoever has some success whenever

training camp does come around. So we only have a couple more shows prior to our little break that we normally take in the middle of the summer, So we're gonna already start kind of looking ahead a little bit to training camp and maybe some crowded rooms that are going to have to be addressed with questions quite like the ones we just talked about. Who are those crowded rooms? What are those crowded rooms? And who was going to

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skill levels. Two and three day camps are available with new dates at it an AT and T Stadium and The Star in Frisco. Spots are limited. Register today at Dallas Cowboys dot com Slash Academy a very giggly group of talking Cowboys analysts. Isaiah Isaiah, cold old blooded him? You do you do? You call it like you see it, So let's call it like you see it. How about this?

We had a jersey number switch. I don't know. I don't think it's a big deal on my side because I mean, I guess it's gonna happen regardless, and there's nothing you can do about it. However, it's a big deal to a lot of people because there's one certain Jalen Smith who has now combined his five and his four to make a nine on his jersey, one of the few jersey changes we did see throughout the Dallas

Cowboys whenever OTA's opened up. Mister Isaiah Stanback, you were one that had actually donned a jersey in the fel How important is that number change? And what do you think about the one with Jalen smn You're asking the wrong person because I never cared about numbers. See I

don't either, really, I don't care about numbers. I hope that it's financially beneficial to him, because I have my understanding is that he had to he had to cut a nice little check to get that, and I guess my understanding is that you have to pay out the remaining inventory um for those jerseys. I'm not half a million dollars. Half a million dollars he paid out. It means a lot to him that yeah, half a million wow, But no, no, no, would you do that? But because

now you're a business owner, you're a family man. All of those things makes like when you think half a million dollars, you think you know milk, right brand, it's a life, I mean, I mean, if it's that important to him, then it's that important to him. I mean, but personally, I've never cared that much about numbers. I understand why people are probably up in arms because, especially

here at Cowboys Nation, means something. The nine means something to people, and then so do a bunch of other numbers, right there's I mean, shoot, half the dog on numbers are probably gone here within the Cowboys because of the amount of great players that have come through here. But in terms of Jayleen, hey do what you do, man, You got the bread to do it by buy your jersey number back. I mean, you were nine, you know, you went to fifty four, you made another nine version

and none of you coming back. So guys are some guys are attached to their numbers. Some guys are really attached. It doesn't have anything to do with how they play on the field though, absolutely nothing. No look good, play good something it has to be yeah, I mean for Jayleen, I have over the last couple of weeks, especially when he announced that Jersey change the venom from fan base from the fan base and people just saying, you know,

what differences to make? How dare you do this? And just wearing fifty four and what fifty four means to the franchise. I think it's really interesting a guy like Jalen Smith that when you look at what he's done on the field, and I know this is in popular opinion right now, but eighty solo tackles averaging for the last three years, one hundred and fifty four tackles last year. If you're looking around the league and you're comparing these numbers,

are you giving the same criticism to other linebackers. Let's just say Layden Vanderesh had one hundred and fifty four tackles last year. Are you criticizing Laden Vanders the same way that you're put in the criticism on Jaylen Smith? Is it doesn't bother you that much that he's a businessman that he swipes. I mean, Layten Vanderess has a whole wolf call if he just lands around the pile. What I'm just trying to understand where the vendom comes from.

Guys coming from this direction, what do you do you care about the number of jo I don't care. Do you care about the numbers? I do not? How about yeah? So we the people? Yeah, no, people care. People people do here. I mean, but I can't speak on that. I think it comes down. Look, he put a post on Twitter showed pictures of him growing up wearing it. If it like you said, if it means that most of him and the Jones will say yeah, where it, it's fine, then fine. I mean, there are no retired

numbers in this franchise. There are numbers that are kind of unofficially untouchable. There hasn't been a twenty two. There hasn't been a twelve, there hasn't been I mean, there's been eighty eights, but there hasn't been certain numbers eight. I think fans wanted nine to be in that category. Okay, if you feel that way because you've always loved Tony Romo, fine, If you don't care like we do, fine, I don't think it really matters. That's kind of what I said.

Lead again, It's like, I think it's a moot point because you can't change anything about it. It's not going to change, he wanted, he went and got the one problem is with Romo fans to say, how dare you I want I want receipts if you're a Romo fan and say you are I want receipts because there are so many fans that thought Romo was just awful and sucked and get him out of here and he's overrated and he's not a lead and all this stuff, and then time passes and it's like, oh man, he's the

greatest ever. God we didn't give him enough open It's like, I just think it's it's revisionist history with Tony Romo and one day because when you're in that chair, you're playing that position, you're compared to Aikman and Roger and Dak's getting some of that now and it's not fair. So for fans that are open arms, how do you feel about Tony back there? That is all I want

to know. I love what Rob just said. I don't know whoever puts together the little cow bites and whatever that are on like our website that needs the best of one. That was that's really good, really well said, because you can't wish wash your way around the same thing with Jalen Smith. I mean, if you're not not for him, stay not for him, because if he comes around and has a really good year, we're gonna see the receipts as well, and we're gonna we're gonna want

those two. So I mean, I am at just as much of a skeptic around his game as anybody. Well, I'm the same thing with Layton Vanderesh. I've not sold on either one of those guys, but we're we're gonna see how that works out with the nine in the

linebacking corps here coming up this year. So final couple minutes here, we do have a lot of crowded rooms whenever it comes to the Cowboys and their roster heading into training camp here in a couple of months or I guess what would that be a month and a half now, six weeks latest July, about six weeks from now training caps Oh my lord, ye, So yeah, running out of time in terms of picking out who could be the odd man out in some certain scenarios. Corner

wide receiver, edge rusher, linebacker. Lots of bodies put into those four positions. Is there one that sticks out to you guys, at least watching from OTAs that is quite crowded right now and is going to have to see some trim whenever we get closer into the summer. Well, right now, the cornerback position is going to be that's the one to watch. There's eleven guys at corner on

the roster right now. Yeah, County Reggie Robinson, Yes, sir, and Reggie and hey, we saw a spark playing corner corner and he looked good on the ball and he looked good yea. You know, so you might have been playing safety on Wednesday, but on whatever day we were out there. Yeah, but when you when you look at guys like you know, Anthony Brown, Jordan Lewis, um Digs. Obviously he didn't have much to worry about. But still that first group, you could tell from those veteran guys

that they recognize that they're on the hot seat. I mean they're practicing it like they are on the hot set. Yeah, you know, and so I mean it obviously has to be there, you guy Naean, right, he did for hey, hey, Nashan, you know, made another player on the ball. And there's just little things that you're starting to see. Kelvin Joseph again Footworth wise. I mean, these young guys are going to and you want to see them put the pads

on and see what they do in live action. But I'm telling you, man, there, this is a really good group, and it's the position battles. It might be epic. I agree. I'm that room is stacked right now. And I mean what we talked about, you know, after the hiring of Dan Queen, it was about competition and how important that is to him and his culture. And we're seeing it, We're seeing it, We're seeing it show up and I think you're going to continue to see that all the

way through training camp. And guess what, Competition has never made a team worse, No, never, never, now never. Last year after training camp, the Cowboys took five guys at cornerback, Trayvon Diggs, Anthony Brown, Jordan Lewis, which I think this year you could say those are the three locks out of the cornerback group. Then after that it was Cheeto and Daryl Worley after that, so that those were the

five last year. So you put those three guys, speaking of Brown, Lewis, Diggs, in this group, what is there two more spots left and there's Reggie Robinson, Joseph two draft picks are making this team Nayshan Wright. Yeah, he's on the there's already three guys right there, right, Jordan Lewis is interesting because, huh three guys? You mean you factor in Israel throw him in a secondary too. Is he gonna be considered a safety? That probably in the safety I mean, but but and he goes into that

same pdbs. Yeah, right, there were ten last year. There's only so many dbs that you're taken. I think, you know, dan Quinn will probably have He's they're gonna play it, figure it out. They got two more roster spots though, right, we still have fifty five now or we still it's fifty five on game day. You can't have to the squad elevations. Yeah, So, I mean it's gonna be tight. It's gonna be real tight. It's real tight at corner. I mean, I Kelvin Joseph may not be a walking starter,

but he's gonna play. Oh he'll he'll make the roster. He's gonna play. So there's four spots. We're talking about one spot here, and it's gonna be decided between a third round pick this year and a fourth round pick last year. I just think Nashawn Right is gonna make this team. I just don't think they drafted him not to develop him and you know, work with him. Even if he's not gonna play year one, he's gonna be on special teams. I'd be surprised if he didn't make

this team. I'm with you on Anthony Brown. He's a veteran guy. Dig's obviously a starter. Jordan Lewis is interesting because he's played different spots. I mean, he's been in the box, he's been safety, something like could they move him around maybe and maybe that'll give you some flex at the corner position. Um, but yeah, it's it's gonna

be interesting. I think they're probably gonna take six this year, right, there's a chance they take six corners, and then one of those is maybe like a dB corner hybrid type thing like safety corner goes back and forth, Like you said, maybe with a Jordan Lewis or maybe a guy like Reggie Robinson, who is now, of course, spent a year in both categories. What about wide receiver on the offensive

side of the ball. We've talked a little bit about that spot previously, but can any of these guys, at least based off of what you've seen so far challenge the likes of maybe as Cedric Wilson or Noah Browning. Isaiah's just shaking his head. Yeah, I'm waiting on the wide receiver. You know, it's not great radio. I don't want to I don't want to say too much before training camp. Based upon what I've seen. I don't see anybody challenging their spots currently. We'll see once training camp

shows up, We'll see once. Once once Pittsburgh, you know, steps on the field, we'll see what guys bring to the table. Because special teams are gonna be a big part of that as well, and that's really what you're gonna see their impact in those areas as well as playing this receiver. I think Cedric Wilson would have had a huge training I mean, he did have a huge training camp, but I think it would have had a huge preseason last year if it would have had the chance.

You know, I always hear you talk about the learning curve for wide receivers coming into the league and what it was like for you being in the group, So I can just only imagine what it's like for guys like send me for Hokol and some of these undrafted kids guys, and you know, look, they're trying to find a spot amongst a bonafide superstar group. And so then you have guys behind them that have pretty much solidified themselves.

I think Noah Brown, if we're just gonna point out anyone, he may be the one spot that may be up for the taking. If someone can can you know, you know, unseen him. So it's gonna take a lot. It's gonna take a lot simply because of his understanding of the offense and because of his contributions on special teams. That's the kicker. That's the one. Because the special teams coordinator has some sway in the room. I mean, he's got

the last call. He absolutely I mean for those I'm sorry for those that don't know that, the special teams coordinator when they all sit at the table and say, okay, well we got we got these two guys, and they're gonna say, ruh, He's gonna say who has the most impact, John Fossil, who's the most versatile, Who has the most impact? Right, who is it that you have to have on the field? And all in all, you know, every every sequence. So I mean absolutely, absolutely, right Fossil is gonna have a

huge saying this. I and just watching Cedric Wilson last week, I make a ton of plays or anything. But like you remember, he was really good for them last year in his role. I mean really good. And if Dak had been there the whole year, they had a great connection,

Like I know Seattle game. Yeah, Like I know, he's making two million bucks and Dad, can you know you look at the statu of the salary sheet and you're like, okay, if Phoco, well he's making if he can push a guy that's making two million bucks with your cap situation, But I don't know. I think he's a guy that really in a receiver rotation. Dak likes him. He's a good player, that's the thing. So Dak likes him. And then you factor in the standpoint we need to see

how these guys block him. Yeah, how are they going to block? Because running the running game is so is such an important portion of with this offense, especially now, especially now right, if these guys are unwilling to get in there and put which we know Noah Brown, Cygil Wilson, we know these guys to get in there and get dirty. Right, So you got Phoco and you got some of these new guys. If you don't want to show up me and get dirty, then you might as well go go

ahead and post up. Yeah, it's not gonna work out for you too quickly whenever training camp comes around because of how crowded that room is, other crowded rooms in the front seven edge rusher linebacker with that drusher specifically, I think this is gonna be really fun. Tank and Gregory and then what a cluster after that? Dorin's Armstrong, Bradley and I basham Carlos watch or excuse me, Brent Urban. Yeah, Chauncey Golston is watched for and I think bash him.

They brought in bash him and a lot of people kind of like it's, you know, why would they make that, you know, guy that's kind of unproven, high draft pick, hadn't shown it, but his energy and his ability to you know, want, his want to you see you see it being there, and I think if they could coach this guy up and if he can get around some of these veteran guys and emulate some of what they do.

And we don't want to emulate everything from last season, but I'm just saying some of those he is a guy that is going a hundred miles per hour all the time. And if you're a guy going one hundred miles per hour and you don't have the moves in your wheelhouse, you get stuck. Right, He's stuck in mud mid move. He's just Those are some of the things that he has to cultivate. But he could be someone that pushes another guy, maybe adoring song Strong, maybe a Bradley,

a Ni Kyle. Yeah, I don't. I don't like that. I know you don't. But Bradley looked good. Bradley looked like he's wait, yeah, yeah, I mean he looks more explosive. I think those are the things that happened to a guy in the second year in the league. Did he gain a couple inches on his arms? He did not. That's tough to do. Dang it, it's worth a shot. I thought I would at least ask can Terrell Basham

be this year's Alden Smith. That's a good question. Kind of an undersung signing who had, of course a great past but or not a great pass but at least a high performance passed with the early draft pick and whatnot work his way into the starting lineup. And actually produce a little bit. I think he's gonna play. I'm gonna play quite a bit. I mean, I think he was a guy that was on a bad team last year but was productive and the motor is exactly it.

That's what they like about him, and they liked him a lot coming out. You know, they knew about him coming out of the draft. So I think he's gonna have a role, a defined role, and maybe you know, I don't know if he's gonna play as much as Alden did, but he's gonna be in the rotation. I'd

be shocked if he wasn't. I think that would be That's a fun one to look out for because I think he as compared to the draft picks, I mean, with Chauncey Golston and some of these other guys, he's one of the last talked about and I think he should be one of the first talked about it right after Tank and Gregory, right in that defensive line group.

So we've mentioned some of these position groups. What about offensive coordinator Gentleman, because we do have another voice in the pile this year, in the room this year, on the second week in a row, Ben McAdoo pressure on Kellen Moore maybe. I mean, of course McAdoo was pretty decent as the offensive coordinator for the Giants in twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen. Kellen Moore has to improve when it comes to the red zone that I mean, bottom line,

that's where his weakness is. McAdoo was pretty good in the red zone during his time in New York. Isaiah, you gave me a little smirk whenever I mentioned Ben McAdoo. What do you know about for the Giants? It wasn't during that time, though, it was not during that time. Yeah, we're gonna see what mac would do, because I mean, we're gonna see what he does. And as a consultant, by the way, absolutely he's a consultant. And I honestly don't know how um influential UM consultants are when it

comes to the team. I have never been in a position where there was a higher consultant. Now there were other guys around, but um, we'll see. You know, maybe he'd maybe he'd just be kind of a big brother to killing more and maybe it's somebody he can lean kind of lean on, you know. If I don't, I don't know Keiller Moore enough to know if he if he's somebody that would ask, you know, that'll kind of step up the side of himself to ask for others

opinions or other point of views. Um. But you know, as somebody who's been around the league for a little bit, maybe and it never hurts to have another voice around unless they're just really trying to overthrow what you're doing. So I don't have much to say aside from another it's another it's another brain and in the room, man, that's a political answer right there. Like that, that's how you run for a position. I don't think it's political though,

because I don't. We don't really know what he's gonna do. We don't really know his role. What what does consultant mean? I don't really know. Right we have consultants out here coaching the linebackers. So I mean there's all things being considered equal, and I think we have to look at that and absolutely look when you talk about his success and what he was able to do in New York, right red zone specialists if you want to call him any of that. Kyle last week talked about the creativity

of the offense kind of lagging. Maybe that's where he comes in and gives some pointers. You know, I think Kellen Moore obviously he's unbothered either way it goes because he's should be. It's his job, right, and he recognizes in the personnel and the guys that have played under him believe in him. Hadn't heard anything to the contrary around here. So whatever McAdoo is going to do, it's going to him to add. It's going to be adding

to what we already have, not taking away. I agree, another set of eyes, sounding board, whatever you want to call it. You mentioned linebackers. I was thinking the same thing. George Edward accomplished coach available brought him in last year. Now that was a coaching role, kind of helping with the linebackers. Um, I think in terms of helping with Dak, helping maybe even some of the game planning stuff. Maybe he's gonna be involved there. But Kellen Moore just got

contract extension. Man, Yeah, he's good. There's no threat there. I mean, like if it is, it's not been Macado. I don't think no, it's I mean, like I said, it's just you're sitting in a meeting room. You know, you have you have Deak Prescott you got Kellen Moore on one side, you got macadoo on the other side, and Kellen Moore is coaching up Dak and all of a sudden, you McAdoo taps him on the shoulders like, hey,

you know, check this out. That's it. That's that's what I that's why I foresee And then maybe in the game planning, yeah, you know, he says, hey, how about you guys think about this. Yeah, that's that's it. That's all I foresee him doing. But we don't know. He's been with McCarthy three different spots. That's boy. Yeah. So and that's what coaches do. That's what coaches about their friends. That's called the coaching tree for reads. Shake it, a guy falls out, that's been macado. Here we go. Ben

mcadoo's gonna be in training camp. He's gonna talk to Michael Gallup. He's gonna be like, hey, Michael, hey, do the one handed catch thing over the top of a Cowboys dB Rob. I'm just just I didn't we didn't get a text message when he was on ESPN. Well, I was gonna back. This side of the room is na ESPN. That side of the room is YESPC. The segregation. Wow. Wow, I mean, did you get an invite? I did not. I did not either. So you're saying that mcadoo's getting

pulled up by his boy, but they didn't. I think I did invite you at one point whenever heck like missed. I think I did invite Isaiah and he said, nah, man, I don't want to do it. I should have called Rob. No, No, I didn't. The key word there was think look and the thing is and the thing is about it is you have to show some professionalism and be on time the first time and together up he Wait a minute, maybe, no, it's coming. You know it's coming. You don't have to

go one hundred miles fur your tesla. What's going on with the state troopers around here? Man? Somebody to get this guy boy. I told him I knew somebody who worked for ESPN. You guys, so let's go. You're gonna be a lot a lot slower on the way back while driving. Oh that's gonna do it for us on talking cowboys. Oh good, Thank you for sticking with us here over the last hour. I hope you had a

great weekend. We will see you regular time next week Monday at eleven thirty, and of course that is subject to change because I don't know what the actual schedule is moving forward whenever it comes to upstairs, but we'll figure it out eleven thirty, tentatively next Monday here on Talking Cowboys for Rob Phillips, Isaiah stand Back, heck My Harrison, Scott Prizell, Aaron Gonzalez, and Chris Beam in the back up Kyle Yeoman saying so long, We'll see you next

week on Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.