Talkin' Cowboys: The Unknown At WR

training camp twenty eighteen. We got one practice down, we got one more to go, and then they put the pads on tomorrow on the field behind us here I am Bill Jones with Rob Phillips, Brian brought us Mickey Spagnola and you. Yes, we have phone lines available here from training camp and you can make a call and be a part of the show. Nine seven two four nine seven forty four hundred, the number one the screen there nine seven two four ninety four hundred. I look

forward to taking some phone calls always. Yeah, I'd be interesting though that kind of get some of the ideas, you know, you talked about the practices and stuff and you really had to try and try and pull some things out of it, but there were some good things out there. Just always interested in the fans. I found that a lot of the things that we do now, the fans are so hungry for information and who's this

and who's doing that stuff. So I'm sure we'll have some some calls asking those types of questions, Hey, what'd you see third tid, who's playing the who's starting tied in? Who? What's the receiver rotation and all that. So, but that's always a good part about the show's the interaction with the four well and the other thing when you look back at yesterday, from what they did in the afternoon compared to the walkthrough, I got more out of the

walkthrough than I did the afternoon practice. Yeah. Absolutely, they did have a period before they actually went they headed together the group thing where they went like ten twelve plays where you could kind of it was it was the guys were not it was not you know, uh like I'm not saying it wasn't full speed, but it was it was you could get a little bit about they were running some twist stunts, guys are picking some things up. You got some combinations of some routes that

you can saw. You saw the quarterbacks throwing the football. That's kind of where from that point those ten eleven twelve plays. I got something out of that just from the little the compete side of it. But the rest of the practice was, Okay, where's Layton Vanderish lining up? Okay, where's Jalen Smith lining up? Okay? Where who's playing the

third defensive in for me? Right now? That that's where I got in the second half of the practice the extension of mini camp and OTAs, and it was worse than mini camp and ote It's just the same because they're easing them back in, all of them. I mean, they couldn't line up against each other. They had to use the guys on offense that weren't in the well did you see the parting eleven? No, I know what

you just said. Yeah, but after that, a lot of individual for an hour and forty five minutes of the coaches with little beanies on lining up as linebackers and dbs twenty four hours. Mick, all right, we'll get the pads on very quickly. And he's league mandated. Yes, I think you can't go up the players Association. Basically great stuff by the Players Association. No player safety, Mickey, we gotta think about that. Yeah, Well, but they don't think

about their contracts and stuff. They just they caught. They they forfeited money to be out here and play pansy football. Mickey, I hate, I hate to say this, guys, but in two years time we might not be having talking Cowboys. Just be nice to the callers, Okay, exactly, exactly nicer than Mickey is to the leafblower or the security guy. Everybody hates. Mickey was on one yesterday, Boy's minute. We need to bring that, Yeah, but some of that I

can't put on Mickey Smith. Yeah, like that that we won't go into that one, all right, So we look at what we got out of yesterday. The one thing that that it was in the walkthrough that I noticed immediately and I believe Brian brought us maybe writing about it later today on Dallas Cowboys dot Com, Cole Beasley and Tavon Austin on the field at the same time, which is means one of those smaller guys is playing outside. Right.

I thought it was interesting because I kind of thought maybe Scott, you know, in this day and age, everybody says you're trolling somebody, you know, like on Twitter, you're troll, You're trolling, They're trolling. You. I think Scott Lenahan might have been trolling us a little bit yesterday because he did he put he put Cole Beasley and Tavon Austin on the field. Really is the X and the and the Z. And then they used Alan Hearns with some

inside slot stuff. So you're thinking, you don't traditionally feel like that two five eighth receivers are going to be outside you know, receiver, but that that's something that a little bit in OTA's we saw Cole Beasley playing some more on the outside, and now it's going to be okay, how do you get him routes down. It's not gonna be about throwing him vertical passes and stuff. It's gonna be about throwing him the outs, you know, not so much the slants, but outs, curls, things like that. They

hit Tavon Austin that little period. Drill I was talking about playing as a tight, tight and tight formation and he went up, they cleared the tight end and they curled around. So just trying to get a little guy open quickly though, that's what they're doing on the outside.

Well you get him if he's on the outside, and we saw it in OTAs in minicamp quite a bit, even even when they went two wide receivers, and you know, it's a little more difficult to double team him off the line of scrimmage the way sometimes it was happening in the slot with bracket coverage the other thing. And I don't know, you know, take this for what it's worth.

When I was talking to Gil Brandt about Alan Hearns and he said, well, I think Alan Hearns is as a slot receiver, and so maybe they're looking at and maybe they can create some mismatches that side with his size, and maybe he gets a little bit more single coverage there and he gets off the line of scrimmage. We did see Tavon and Cole on the field together in OTAs or mini camp a little bit. I don't know if we both saw him on the outside. Yeah, that's

that's what that's different. Yeah, Jason Garrett spoke to what you just said, make a little bit yesterday. I think in terms of he likes the versatility of all these receivers. They can all play different spots. I think Hearns can play any spot on the right. It remains to be seen about Cole on the outside. They've never really done it consistently, but again it maybe it creates a situation where he's not in such a log jam and you can bracket him. Yeah, that's what mickey. Yeah, it's good

point by Mickey right there. Anything to do to free him up, you know, because he's one of those guys you throw the ball to time, he's gonna catch that football. So anything you could do to free him up one on one situations and teams and teams noticed that last I said that he came das guy in twenty sixteen.

It was like it was second and four and who was he throwing the ball to on the on the boots waggles Maybe you know it was Witna, but Cole Beasley on the outs, little coral routes, all those things that Colbs is really sneaky on running those type of routes. But I'm not saying this is gonna be you know, let's run nine routes, vertical routes with Colbes and let him go fight for the ball in the air. That's

just not his game. But things underneath, stuff to the outside all good and well, and this will you know, the big question has always been where they're gonna do without does well. If you become more versatile and you're not as predictable, people can't just come out and say, Okay, every once in a while, they're gonna put Dez in the slot. But we know where he's gonna be on the outside. So now when Hearns is in there, where's he gonna be. When Terrence Williams comes in, where's he

gonna be? Tavon Austin, is he gonna line up in the backfield with Zeke or is he gonna be outside? And there was a lot of Deontay Thompson out there. Also, by the way, let's not write him off because his speed out there, his speed is gonna make a difference out there. They had a really nice that period. I

was talking about that ten twelve play period. He had a really nice route and in cut route where he ran it against Byron Jones, and Byron Jones was like wanting really going and you see you see Thompson kind of leans on him on the route, leans down, making it think he was going to go to the outside, and then all of a sudden breaks across and like Mickey, seeing there's that separation, there's that speed. You know, Dak Prescott from behind him. He sees it the whole way

and he's boom. He hits the shot right there, no safety in the middle in a way they go so yeah, good, good to see them kind of hit on early in the practice. You know, it's going to be interesting as this season goes along because of whatever tweaks that Scott lena Hand makes with this offense and the adjustments that

the league makes. I had an opportunity to talk with Tony Romo a month or so ago, and he was talking about that that he thought, looking ahead at the Cowboys season, the key is going to be from weeks four through week nine and basically in that area right there, and how the league adjust to whatever the Cowboys are doing offensively because they don't have Jason Witten anymore, they don't have Dez Brian anymore, and then how the Cowboys

adjust back to that. Yeah, I think that to any time that when you when you start talking about rules and how things are called in different things. I just feel like though that you gotta some teams are really good at pushing the envelope and when it comes to how do you run routes? You know, how do you you know, how do you incorporate you know, a lot of teams. We've seen Seattle over the years, New England over the years, the rubs, the picks, the things like that.

How do you how do you incorporate various routes, you know, creative routes to get guys open. All that stuff you're trying to do to help Dak Prescott right now. I mean, that's what anything you can do. And that's one of the things with saying Jay Law that's known as being

a coacher crunch of the precise route running. It was interesting and one of the great things coming out here to training camp is you can see you can watch the coaches working with individual players and even in the case of a Jason Garrett out here yesterday, Cedric Wilson runs a route Jason, I've noticed Garrett immediately goes to him and was and was coaching him on the and you could tell it was he needs to be more precise, right and whatever the route was that he was running.

I thought I was really telling. The way Jerry talked up his coaching staff during the State of the Union press conference, I mean, he was very complimentary, but there was a message within that it's that we've got a young football team and we need our staff to bring these guys along and teach them and get them ready. That's as important as anything they're going to do in this camp, I think, because they not only do they have new faces, they it's very young team for sure.

And Bill, you were asking, you know what else we got out of this, and you know, while we were standing there watching the walkthrough, it's how the coaches were lighting guys up, like in what order, and you kind of get an idea of what the coaches are thinking about, like who's the backup left defensive end or who's the backup right defensive end, who's playing defensive tackle. You know, how they're how they're rotating the linebackers and who's going where.

So I thought it was a good primer for us before the pads come on tomorrow to say, okay, so the second team defensive line. You know, you got Taco Charlton at left defensive end, Coney Eliot right defensive end. You know who's playing in the middle. There's no David Irving out there, right, There's no MALIEK Collins out there, So you got jahad Ward and MALIEK. Collins, I mean Daytone Jones where Collins would be playing. So I thought that was a good kind of just kind of figuring out, Okay,

this is kind of what they're thinking. Now, let's see if anybody can change their minds. Yeah, but if you want to take it a step further than that, go go three deep now and then at the right defensive basically a defensive end. Yeah, at right defensive end. It was Dorian's Armstrong was playing the right end and they had Charles Tapper playing the left defensive end. So that kind of tells you a little bit maybe you know, they think that Armstrong clearly is better suited to play

the right side. You look at the physical body type.

And I had somebody on Twitter this morning and asked me about potentially a playing Charles Tapper inside what you saw with you know, with you with what you saw from jahad Ward that type of player, and Bill to test this being an Oklahoma alum, because he could tell you if Charles Tapper played as a head up five technique when I'm taught that head up guy, that's a hit read read guy, a two gap player, so he would be he would be comfortable having to extend and

having to look and find. But with if you play him inside, say at the three, if they were looking for somebody to move inside his body type going down and watching the drills yesterday, a thicker body and very similar to what jahad Ward looks like, you would say, well, maybe using Charles Tapper's quickness, you could maybe kick him inside. Because right now you could kick him, but maybe, but maybe maybe you could use him as a three or an under tackle. Because I'm looking at him and I'm

thinking body type. He is not a finished guy. He's got some thickness to him, you know, and I've seen I saw a little power with him. But I'm also going off with what I saw at the University of Oklahoma where he was and extend in a two gap player. You know, to play two gap, you gotta you gotta have a little bit of power at the point of attack. And you know, they've taught him how to rush up the field, but maybe they could do the same thing. As an Oklahoma fan, it was so frustrating, sure, because

he's an upfield player. Yeah, used him right, and that's and that's yeah exactly. But but what I'm saying is if they're looking for guys if if it's a potentially a Coney Eally on some stuff, if it's potentially a Charles Tapper on some stuff. Because right now, the twos behind behind you know, behind jahad Ward and behind Jones is Brian Price and Daniel Ross, you know, and Daniel Ross didn't look terrible yesterday, and he's got a little bit more of feel, quickness, prices, a little bit more

of a stay in the gap guy. But that's kind of where you're at right now with your back up defensive work in Right now, look at the numensive end. Randy Gregory to me, is going to play the right defensive end. That's where Randy basically he looked good. But look at but look at that. You just mentioned the

competition there at right defensive end, even the backups. Right you got a fourth round draft pick who they like, Cony Ealy, who's had three sacks in the Super Bowl, and there's if these guys are healthy and are coming along, that's competition for Gregory. But I will say the three of us, I think together we're watching the walkthrough yesterday, just watching him work with Mike Woissick h do the ring who basically, you can see the bend, you can

see the explosion. The guy is he's six five, I think he's two forty two right now, and he moves like a wide receiver and I know, I know he's in sweats, and I know it's he's not practicing right now, but you can see how special he. You know. I ran, I ran into him in the parking lot later, and uh, just kind of small talk with him, and I said, I said, it looks like you never left doing that hoop drill and he and he just kind of smiled and I said, what did you do? Take win with you?

I had to improvise. Yeah, so evidently he's been doing some stuff to try, but he didn't look like I mean, it wasn't like you know sometimes you watch these guys and they're constantly bending over and their shorts, the gatorade bottle taking time. I mean, it was drill, drill, drill, and then you know, and he was it looked good. I mean, yeah, I thought, like, wow, that's okay, that's why,

that's why they've that's why eighteen months. Yeah. Yeah, I would be surprised for the next day or two that Randy Gregory talks to the media, and yeah, hopefully so for the first time. I understanding is that it'll happen after he has his first full practice. Okay, just like when he's when he's doing all this stuff, it's almost like, well, I don't know if he's you know, he's kind of part of the team, but he's not part of the team. You know how guys act when they're injured while I'm

not talking, I'm injured or whatever. So I think that's what it's going to happen. Before we take our first break, let's go to the phone line. How about from Jacob and Odessa. You are on Talking Cowboys, the leadoff hitter Jacob. All right, guys, Hello, Hello, can you hear me? Yes? Yeah, alright. So first off, big fan, been trying to get on the phone to you guys for four years. You are awesome. Thank you for the coverage. Well, good that you got through.

Thanks for listening. Secondly, I know we maintain the best five mentality on the offensive line, and I was kind of wondering if they might apply that to the linebacker corps, maybe putting Jaylen at, Sam Vanderesh at, Mike and Sean Lee at the week side. I know we don't really like the best five mentality, but I thought that maybe in the linebacking corp it might apply better. Oh don't don't.

Don't think they're not looking at that. But that'll be decided by vander Esh and Jalen Smith just how well they play, how quickly vander Esh makes the transition from college to the NFL. Because if he can handle the middle, I think that's one of the things that they're thinking about. We've talked about using Jalen if Vanderesh can play in the middle as a pass rusher, and I think Jason talked about it, maybe not as a down guy, but when when he's standing up and maybe play that strong

side a little differently. Or we talked yesterday about in their three down lineman rotation that he stands up as a linebacker and he goes, you know, not asking him to cover. So yeah, I think that's a very very real possibility, but it's got to play out. The other thing is, and we spoke to Rod Minnelli again about this yesterday. Okay, the Sam doesn't get a ton of snaps in this defense, right, So Rod keeps talking about how it's three guys for two spots and a rotation

there right with those other two linebacker spots. Because he keeps emphasizing guys were playing specifically, Jalen Smith was playing too many snaps last year, right, but he played too many for his physical condition. They didn't want him having

tight to carry that low sixty snaps a game. Yeah, and this this kind of solves that in addition to depth because look at what happened last year with some of the injuries the well, and that's the thing about the linebacker position around the least, it's such a demanding position physically. I mean, we talk about how many injuries Sean Lee's had in his career. You can find linebackers on teams across the league where they've got the same injury issues because of that position. It's a it's a

collision position. Yeah, lou Keiley for example, I'm yeah, yeah, yeah, so you gotta have it can be a rotation, but there's one guy ain't coming off the field if he's healthy, oh sure, yeah, but the other two can rotate. Yeah. And you know, at some point in time they might want to look at given Sean a little bit of a break in games. I know you don't want to maybe do that because of his talent, but maybe it

keeps him fresher and healthier for sixteen games. I'm not I'm not talking cut his snaps in half, but maybe occasionally when it's thirty to ten, got to step up there when they're up thirty to ten in the fourth quarter. Yeah, you know. Yes, it was the first time that we saw vander Esh and Sean Lee on the field at the same time in the period. And that was because a little bit because they had Sean and bubble wrapped during the OTA's and then Vanderesh got nicked up with

the little bit of a hamstring. So yesterday was the first time that both those guys have played in the Nickel package together. And that that did what you're talking about, Rob that took that took Jalen Smith off the field in that situation, and I think that's maybe how they're thinking of sharing that when they go to Nickel get Jaalen off. Vander Esh is pretty good in coverage and

not just man to man coverage. But I think Brian and I were watching one of the uh I can't remember for his OTA or mini camp, but he drops right and then they throw the ball underneath, and he's got this natural instinct, that natural instinct because he played eight man football, you see, had to be versatile, right, that's right, all right? Nine seven two four nine seven forty four hundred the number to call. We're gonna take a break and be back in just a moment. On

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and turf equipment of the Dallas Cowboys. Find Texas sized deals at my John Deer Dealer dot com. Slash football terms, conditions, exclusions, and warranty limitations apply, so you can you love for details. Back to Talking Cowboys, and Talking Cowboys continues here on a Friday in Oxnard, calif. I had to think for a second track already, thanks lose track of what's going on. By the way, if you are headed out here to Oxnard,

Cowboys are in pads on Saturday and Sunday. They are off on Monday, they are back in pads again Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and they are off again on Friday. So they'll be back on the practice field next weekend as well. And keep in mind that a week from Sunday, on August fifth, you'll be able to watch practice right here on Dallas Cowboys dot com, which the timing of that will be six o'clock Central time, four o'clock on the West Coast.

And um we'll be all a part of the broadcast to two hour show that will also air on t x A twenty one in Dallas four And I give another training camp tip if you're coming out here, if you if you come to the fields, find the film towers. Now, if you now these two this day to day won't matter,

because both offense and defense are on both fields. But generally, if you come to practice and find where the film towers are set up pre practice, that will tell you where the majority of the practice will take care of. So if you get to a point on the field where you're like I can't see, well, just kind of look where the film towers or situated. They move them around.

And if you kind of say, oh, film towers are all set up here in the end zone, that's going to be the primary field that they're going to work on for the day as to group together. So just a little tidbit if you're hanging along the fence line and want to get close to the action and do that. And by the way, the towers already in place so they won't distract us moving down the field. Zach mood

for us. Brian's right, because I had a family that showed up real early for the afternoon practice and they were like, are we going to be able to see here, and I told them the same thing, Yeah, the towers here, so find the film tower. Unfortunately, though in the regular practice they used both fields equally. I walked through in the morning. They used one when they can light line

up and I can't come the walk through. But if you and when they get the full pads that the towers will be at the primary section of the field. Don't run and leave when you hear a whistle blow until you see the towers start to come down. They come down. Absolutely, everybody's got to get it in in uh, in line for the autographs. Yeah, and say hello, say hello to us. If you're on the on the fence line, everybody will say hello to Yeah. No, don't be afraid to do that, all right, before we go back to

the phone lines. Another takeaway, Rob, you got something from yesterday? Was your big takeaway? I just not a huge one. I just enjoy watching Chris Rashard work. He's he's no, he never stops moving, he never stops talking. Um, his energy is pretty infectious. I think with these dbs, I spent a lot of time just watching them. A lot of the focus was on RiPP drills, trying to get these guys to be aggressive, force some turnovers. Um, and I still I still kind of chuckle it looking at

how the makeup of this dB secondary has become. And it's it's all these guys that are six feet taller over all, right, they they've already kind of molded that secondary in his vision. We all got out of the car at the same time, say all the same look. Seriously, he's he's got his imprint on this thing already. And it'll be interesting to see how these guys. I'm wondering if this is gonna be more of an aggressive group than we've seen in the past. You know what's what's

interesting about that. I can't remember who the player was, but there's a player the Cowboys either acquired in free agency, a defensive back or I may have been a draft pick when Rod Marinelli first came here and coach Marinelli told him to study Seattle, and Um, it's it's interesting now that Marinelli and Chris Richard, who was a former defensive coordinate at Seattle, have been married together, and so they are very similar in their approach or what Marinelli

wants to do with this defense. Yeah, there's gonna be christ Shard's fingerprints are gonna be all over this defense, and I agree with Rob. I think you are going to see a more aggressive defense. One of my takeaways, if you ask me, we were talking about a blitzing Jalen Smith. They brought linebackers three different times and blitzing in that tend to play ten to twelve play period, you know, trying to make something happen. It wasn't a Jaalen Smith blitz, but you know, but you did see guys, uh,

you know, you did see linebackers coming. Uh. Justin March, Lillard was blitzing one time, Covington came one time, and then Damian Wilson came another time. So obviously they're going to try and create some pressure that way, not only with their with their front, but also with the blitz

packages that they're gonna do. You know what else was glaring though without Cavan Frasier practicing um, non football injury as they kind of do some test on his blood clouding disorder when they went to the after the starters came out at safety. Oh my, yeah, we've kind of talked about there was no one else that has played really any football lining up behind the right now. That's gonna be the evalue. Whale showers move right up the depth charge. Yes he was second team, Well I believe

it was with Mark Huff. Yes, yeah, you know that's the thing with Huff. And Huff doesn't really look like a true free safety to me, or a safety. He looks like a shorter maybe a nickel corner. You know.

He's got some toughness to him though. But I think this is a position that will McClay, Jerry Jones, Stephen Jones, Jason Garrett will evaluate the first couple of weeks of this training camp and hey, it might not be that guy in the Pacific Northwest, but they might have to look at something, especially if Frasier is unable to play, experience the move. If Frasier comes out in two three days,

and let's hope it doesn't happen that way. Mickey's right, He's give you the idea what's happening with the blood clotting. But if it doesn't, if if if he's not able to play, they're going to make a move again, not maybe the guy in the Pacific Northwest, but there are other safeties out there. Yeah, and at least Huff has some experience. I think he's been in the league three years play, but at least he kind of knows how to get onto the field. You know where the fifty

yard line is? Right? All right, back to the phone lines, and let's check in with John and Oregon. John, you are on talking Cowboys? Hello, Hodi, how are you all doing today? Very well? Speaking of the Pacific Northwest? Brian doesn't like that. Yeah, there you go, thank you, So go ahead a question, John, Yeah, I do have a question. Sorry, I just realized my error, the one thing I promised myself i'd never do when Brian live. Yeah, and you're

better than you know that. Yeah, it's preseason for John m Yeah. So guys, listen to my statement before you drawing massive conclusions. But my number one thing is I'm a little concerned with Vanderish being labeled to bust. And I know this is very early, but here's my thought on it. Number one, I really think that the linebackers says we're drafted and second around, um Lee and Smith both are gonna show a little bit more on field potential than vander Esh who has been drafted a lot higher.

And um I really don't think it's purely in his hands. As far as his performance, I think he could play great. I really think it's going to be our second and third round picks that are going to decide whether or not, not necessarily internally to the Cowboys organization, whether or not he's a bust. What John, can I stop you? Where? Where? Where? Where did the bust label come out before the pads ever came on? Where did you see that? Yeah, and I'm not I'm not saying that me personally. No, Well,

where did you where did you come up with the idea? Though? Like who labeled him a bust? Nobody's labeled him a bust yet I could hear the situation will happen. And the reason I fear the situation that has happened is because, Number One, when you look at vander esh coming out of college, he only had one year there. The linebackers that started in front of him definitely had there. You don't see those linebackers in the NFL, and the linebackers are currently on the roster have a longer history of

performance in their college careers. And I know that before the draft there was a lot of pressure for people to get us or get the Cowboys of safety, wide receiver, tons of other positions over a potential vander Esh. I like Vanderesh, I look forward to him doing very well.

My question boils down to what do you guys think his season would have to look like so that nobody comes up with that conclusion, because on one hand, I feel that he could have a wonderful season and still get labeled in that area if the passing game fails or if the offensive line looks like it did last year. John, we appreciate it. And you know, the one thing to keep in mind about any linebacker coming in as a rookie, Sean Lee didn't start his first year in the league.

I mean, you know Keith Brooking was on the team then I wouldn't remember looking back and Keith Brooking, who played over ten years in the league, by James, you know, he didn't start his rookie year with the Atlanta Falcons either his stone back nineteen ninety eight or whatever. It's a very difficult position to learn so from make the transition from a mental standpoint much less of physical. We

saw it with Jalen Smith last year. He got basically thrown into the fire a lot because of an injury where they had to play him more, and so his head was swimming out there. And so you're not gonna no one should make a final judgment on Layton vanderash until he's got several years in the league. I saw Mickey's head pop up like a cocker spaniel right there. I knew he was gonna get fired up. He asked

the question before I did. To be honest with you, I you know, I find myself during watching the draft, doing the Draft show. Though there were things I was critical about Layton Vanderish, I think the most critical thing I was was to take on and you could see that on tape. If John would have asked the question, Brian, are you concerned about Layton Vanderish playing in the league

taking on guys? I would say, yeah, I am. But I think that if you look at him, the physical traits he has, the makeup the NFL coaching that he's gonna get. You know, Jayleen Smith, we did that. We did the tail of the tape with Jayleen Smith. Jaylen Smith talks about playing with one hand and running to the football. You know, those are the kinds of things that they teach you how to do. You know, I don't think. To me, I don't understand the bust thing.

It sounds like you're worried, you're panicky. You know, if if he doesn't play, he doesn't play, if he's if he's not a good player, and then that would be a miss pick. I mean, I don't worry about that. But I think there's just too many traits. And again, you're talking to a guy that had some concerns about

him initially. And if John's question would have went that route, I would have tried to comfort him by saying, this guy is a big physical guy, Okay, if he if they could work with him with his hands, and because the lateral movement there, the strengths there, he just needs to a little bit more refinement in that area. I would that would be the route I would have taken right there. I'm not worried about this bust tag that John's trying to they deep down in his heart, he's like, oh,

I'm so worried about a first round. I'm I'm worried about a first round bust. You know, I don't that That doesn't make I mean, the comparison you keep hearing Jason mentioned it in his Trustcarmers yesterday, not directly Brian Herlocker right, like, not saying he's gonna be a Hall of Famer, but it got a big linebacker who can cover space right and run. It's pretty rare and that's something that Marion Ellie needs in his scheme. And that's why they think he just he checks the boxes for

what you want to know linebacker. The guy that I would compare more so is Rolando McClain. Yeah, and the type of career he had when he was you know, yeah, maybe it's a physical big linebacker. If you want somebody, it's perfect for Marinelli's scheme. If you had the eighth rowerall pick you draft Roquan Smith, because Roquan Smith is Derek Brooks. That that type of player in the Tampa scheme. But to compare it with Marinelli had success with a

taller mic linebacker. That's your good example, right. It's not because they're both white. It is because, hey, physically, that's how he looks on tape and in this scheme and let him let him play. Thank you practice time. You know the other thing, we're not against you, I mean, we're just I just I wonder if his pads fit Hey.

The other The other thing too is he missed a little time laid in offseason workouts because of the ankle, and and you know they're working him at at mainly Mike a little bit of will they're gonna bring him all. That's a huge thing for him him is staying healthy. Yeah, and that is would be a knock against player out there right now. But he had a history of boise state of not being able to stay on the field too, So that's a that's a concern as well about the

second round pick, Conor Williams. Uh. Yeah, you have an opportunity to take a look at him yesterday. Yeah, again in the ten to twelve player he was in there with the first unit. Yes, he is, and I think he's going to be in the first unit until we see otherwise. And what's interesting is they were not playing a fleming That's what I stood out to me, but not playing flaming a left tackle. They were playing Chaz greena left tackle. They're playing flaming at right tackle. So

Mickey did bring that up. But if you look at the offensive line, Yeah, there was a time yesterday where they tried to run Jo hot War. They tried to run a twist stunt where they went. They went down inside with Jones, and they went down inside with Crawford, and then we're gonna try and bring hot ward all

the way around. And so what happened is you get you get a pass from Martin, you get a pass from Frederick, and they pass it all the way to Connor Williams, and Connor Williams put himself in really good position to pick it up, and that way they had everybody accounted for inside. So good start for the young guy. When those Pro Bowl guys send players down to you, you make sure you're in position and be smart enough and aware enough that if they pass him to you,

that's your man. And that way, Prescott sits in them in the pocket, gets the ball to the outside. I think the thing that stands out with him is he's got good feet. Yes, even when to get it, even when to get a little wide at times, he got good feet and balanced like that shows that he could

play tackle. So to have those feet inside I think really helps with the suddenness that he's gonna face, because when you're on the outside, it's just kind of you and that guy you're inside it's coming from all over. And I like the way the fact that he and I saw him out there getting ready for his conditioning drills at the Star and he was doing these little foot drills where they have the kind of ladder thing on the floor I think on the field and you

got to do your steps through it. He's pretty good at it's a little like Zach Martin. Yeah, guy primarily was a left tackle for his team in college, and it's the it's the arm linked thing at the NFL level, or maybe he's more of a guard, but um, you've talked about his strength a little bit, and that's maybe something that comes down and that's gonna be the one thing.

If there's gonna be if we're gonna get into some one on one and and we're making some observations on our shows, it might be how Zach had a I mean excume uh Connor had a little problems. He got a little over extended. When you get over extended is when you don't have confidence that you could sit down on a guy because you're trying to get to him before he can get to you, So you over extend. If he's gonna have an issue, if he's going to

have an issue. That is what it's gonna be. It's gonna be the little bit of a lunge to try and compensate for being a young guy that needs to develop some power and upper body. That might take until the folk just read read. Paul Alexander, the new offensive line coach, told us he took Connor and pointed at Tyrant and he pointed in. He said, these guys don't look anything like they did when they got here. Right, Sometimes you need that first year. But you know he's

gonna have to wait a year for that. What do they have? Connor Williams list three hundred pounds three or five? Three He wanted to play at three or five, he told us. Half he can easily be three twenty next year. Yeah, and and and not like bad weight, just lifting because he's got a sleek body structure. Right, Tyren Smith with the body structure, I mean it doesn't look like Larry Allen, right, no, no, and so wait but he'll put on But yeah, that may be a problem as a rookie, but wait till

next year. They those kids. I give those rookies credit. They did not let them go home once they were drafted. They were here for the their mini camp stuff, like they stayed the whole time. A lot of those kids were eating breakfast with us every day. Well, Connor Williams was already home, right, Well yeah, but a lot of the kids were what you're saying listing him at three ten and in the media guy, they list him at three ten. Yeah, coming out of college, he was two

ninety eight actually right right. So he when we met with him on the Draft show during the draft actual draft, he said he wanted to play at three oh five. So if he's in three ten, that's that's good. You got a laminated roster over there. Makey to Brian um broad listed over there. I'm sorry, that's that's quite all right. I've got my own makeshift. I know, no, you know, you know what Brian started, He opened to can of worms because I went into pr and and they accused

me of causing a problem. I going toward you and what problem did I do? Now? And they said laminated rosters? And I said I was broadest, not me, But everybody weren't coming in asking where are the laminated rosters? All right? If you work with me on talking cowboys in just a moment, Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't cut it, and your skincare should be

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All the Tito sports at the Very Odd residence in River Ridge in Oxnard, California, the corner of Vineyard and Ventura, and it's the marine layer is leaving us as the sun peeks through the clouds here. Got to roll up right. Brian had to take off his warm up jacket and he's rhetors some football now. The Cowboys will be on the field for a walkthrough here in about forty five minutes, and of course the today's practice is at four o'clock

Pacific times six o'clock Central time. Let's welcome into Talking Cowboys for the first time in two thousand and eighteen Training Camp Nebbie in Silver Springs, Maryland. Nebbie, how you doing hum, I'm doing well. Thanks for asking listen. I know there's been a lot of talk this offseason about who are number one receiver is going to be, But I just want to say that that if our receiving core uh plays well as a unit uh uh uh and plays well uh uh as a team, and we

play well in all three aspects of the game. Uh uh uh as a football team. Uh, we're gonna give ourselves a chance uh uh uh to win games and become Super Bowl uh champions. So my point is, uh, what we have to do uh uh uh uh uh uh is win games as a football team. And if we can do that, uh, we're gonna give We're gonna give ourselves a chance. Uh take care of Thanks for being patient with me. Have a great weekend, uh and a great week all right, Nebby, Thank you neb at

Wide Receiver Corps. Everyone's talking about him. Yeah, and that's It's about the consistency of practice. Who are the guys Mickey brought up Thompson, you know, already off on a on a pretty good start. You saw Michael Gallup took a ball off the top of Duke Thomas's head last yesterday afternoon on a play. You know, Duke never even knew he was there. Next thing, you know, Michael is reaching over the top and pulling the ball off the top of the back of his or back to the

back of his helmet. So yeah, those guys, we're gonna see it. We're gonna see a lot of one on ones. You're gonna see some very competitive cornerback play, so it'll be some good battles back and forth. The guys who are the most consistent are the ones that are gonna be here. And you've been banging this drum, and I agree Terrence Williams, this might be an opportunity for him or a situation where it motivates him to have a

big time season. And really, because he's more thought. His pretty telling along those lines that he was out there yesterday and yeah he's got more time. He actually did more yesterday. Yeah, I anticipated Terrence is a you know Terence. You can say what you want about Terrence, but you never question his toughness, never questions because his desire to want to be out there is he sometimes misguided? Absolutely he is. But I believe that Terrence Niman does love

playing a Terrence Naman. Terrence Williams loves playing this game. I think he does. And I think it again. I think he was embarrassed by happening in the offseason, and I think when he gets to go out here and be full tilt, you're gonna see a totally different player. You know. I think here's what you gotta hope with him is I think he understood his spot on the team with Dez. It's like you're you're playing with your big brother, and you know what your spot in the

family is. And now all of this brother gone right, and now it's like, oh, who do I have to play second fiddle to? Right? You know, Alan Herns just got here right, and you know he had He had as good a season one time as Alan Hearns, Cole Beasley, all these other guys are young. So maybe he looks at it as Okay, maybe I can assert myself a little bit more and I'm not the subservient wide receiver to this offense. I don't know if that's what he's thinking,

but he should be. There's times I disagree with this man. I don't disagree with him on that. I really don't, because that, to me is that's where it's gonna be. He's like, he's gonna look over Remember the one time that Dez didn't play, he one of his best games he ever had, that Washington game where Kellen Moore through him. It was like over two hundred yards. You know, again, he's capable. That saw in the Kansas City game last year. He's capable of catching a ball on second and fifteen

and getting twenty five yards. He's capable of doing those things, and Mix always made the comparison. He's kind of been the Alvin Harper of this generation to Dez's Mike, you know. And and now they need somebody else to take over and at least make them account for you, to help back off things for Zeke in the running game, so they're not just pressing up on everything. So he's got an opportunity. Alan hearns as an opportunity, Thompson as an opportunity.

There's really no sing Beasley around. I mean, it's a blanket overall, and see who emerges, you know. And I think what happens in this situation is the unknown scares everybody out there because they don't know, right and who knows these guys might have something I don't know. Yeah, I'm not gonna start. I'm not gonna start. You're a bust. Yeah, I'm not gonna criticize until I see it. Give us a week four, give him a chance, to give him

a chance. But the unknown scares people. And there's always been situations here where, And I think Brian's always been a proponent of this is yeah, get rid of this veteran and let this young guy go. And I'm going, are you sure? How do you know? Well they've done it. Yeah, and now we're gonna face the unknown and see how

it turns out. You know, in this talk radio age that we live in too, like with Terrence Williams, people remember not running out of bounds much more so than nine receptions for one hundred and forty one yards in this Kansas City, Kansas City. I told you that. You watch him play against Kansas City, and I get it. Vick and Ventur out there is going, all right, brought us. You know, it's we're in a situation right now where he didn't have a touchdown catch, he didn't have this,

he didn't have that. But I think that to me, you watch that Kansas City game. They threw him screens, they threw him in and in that game also you talk about not going out of bounce, he stayed in bounce on a third down play to keep the clock going. And you saw the sidelines basically Garrett and everybody's just like, yeah, I'll clapping, you know, But he knew, he knew the game situation, catch the fall down. Yeah, all right, I know, little nuts, but yeah, he's teachable. Now, who's your guy

in Ventur again? Vick, Vick and Ventour. We don't have Vic and Tour on the line, but we do have Manny and Baker's feed. That works for me too. Yeah, Manny, you're on Talking Cowboys. Hey, good morning guys, first time called her a long time listener. Thank you. So, Uh my question is uh knowing that you know pattern practice is coming up Saturday. Yeah, who's that one guy except for the obvious Randy Gregory, Who's that one guy you're looking at and saying, give him the right opportunity. He's

gonna be making the roster that nobody expected. Nobody nobody see. I was gonna go jahad Ward going again against Martin. You know, I want to see I want to see Donte Jones and I want to see these tackles going against Connor Williams and Frederick and you know when they do the one on one stuff, I want to see

how many times because Travis Frederick is a machine. Travis Frederick and then Zach Martiner machines out there when it comes to technique and keeping the guys off and how competitive are But if you're talking about a guy that you're looking at to make the team because of the pads or we don't expect, we don't expect, I wow, I got one go ahead. How about Duke Thomas? Talked about him, talked about him a little longhorn, Duke Thomas,

Did you mention him? No? I mean because that's who Michael Gallup took the ball off his Oh yeah, and that wasn't a great moment for him. But just watching him out there, he's very fluid, absolutely to this team. Last year, he might have made the team if he hadn't. I think he hurt his foot in his an. This is tough for Rob Phillips to discuss, extremely because Rob is an aggie and Duke Thomas is a longhorn, extremely tough, extremely tough. I bled maroon. Yeah, but you know, I

keep it. I go down the middle here. Yeah. I think he's a guy because you're looking at the depth of the secondary and he does have a little experience. He's been in the system for a year. They need somebody to round out that rotation and it's already a young secondary anyway, So he's got a shot, throw a guy out there, and maybe this is not the right angle that that they were looking for. Me, Yeah, the man he was looking for. But what about Rico gathers?

And I'm saying this in this way if it turns into padded practices, and who can block? Can he can he? If we if we look up and all of a sudden we see both Scarborough and we see So you're saying it more so that he can make the team. What happens in padded press, you know, whereas you're not predicting it so much, but you're seeing you want to watch it. He he looks, He looks lumbery out here

right now. But maybe when you put pads on everybody else they kind of become a little cumbersome and lumbery. And maybe this is where this is where umbery lumbery. But but but right now we kind of in our mind even chasing here, it's like, oh, we've got three tight ends where you know you got four time right ends, coach, you're really kind of thinking about. But maybe this is where Rico gathers. All of a sudden, it's like, huh, they run the ball behind you see you see Williams

or Jackson or one of those guys. Scarborough break one behind him. You know, oh hey, they kind of he caved down everything inside, ball comes the outside, and you know you're like, oh, who through that block? Oh that was Wells and Rico Gathers on the outside there. Maybe that's where all of a sudden we think of we've seen Rico Gathers make plays in the Hall of Fame game where he's running across and catching the ball and

doing that. But maybe this is where now when you put the pads on for Rico Gathers, that turned into Okay, you don't want to talk about me, but I'm gonna block better than Dalton Schultz. I'm gonna block better than Blake Jarwin. I'm gonna block better than Jeff Swaying. And maybe that's the reason that their mind they're like, well, we gotta keep if we're gonna run twelve personnel stuff, we gotta keep Rico Gathers potentially as a big body block.

Every time we talked to Rico, he talks about his blocking. Right, that's the part he's got to fix. Because you think about these basketball players that become tight ends, it's well, they can get a jump ball and get the footballs. He could do that. He could do that, And I made up a nice word, lumberree. I good word. But but you watch him catch it's it's kind of like a battleship trying to turn to get out to see. It doesn't turn really quick. It takes it some time.

But but talking to Jason Witton about Rico gathers uh, more so than the ability to catch the football, it's the ability to read defenses. There that that that that's always getting will care him because of his limited experience. He is football like you, so to speak. He's saying a very nice way to is what he's saying. Right, Yeah, I'm but Alan Larkin, no trouble finding this Ustin Austin Larkin. Now I'm joking. No, he wasn't bad because in the

OTAs had him working early. Let me tell you this though, he was the ten Guys ten Surprise ten guys of training Camp obversation I had of ten players, he was number nine on my list of guys. I thought, so, yeah, absolutely, he's guys, got a little first step burst, justine slide. He's I think, yeah, I think already does Covington fit into that category. Is he like gonna make this team. I gonna make the team be a special if he can show that, right, they're trying to keep as many

of those linebackers as they can. Yeah, I don't think you know he's That's an interesting story because he was a he was a quarterback initially at Indiana and now is really learning the defensive side of the game. So hopefully he can maintain that type of play. Joel Lanning make it as a special team. I think you're looking at a practice squad player right there. Did you see him out there practicing deep snapping? I did not. Yeah, see,

there you go. That's what you gotta do. You gotta do something that all of a sudden they put you into game and you're like, you've played, you played a whole half of football, and then the fourth quarter of the last snap, last punt, you're snapping the football and it's not over somebody's head. That's what you gotta do. I mean, so there's three longs. I don't know it's on this team. Now. Yeah, you got Scott Daley backing up LP, and now you got Joel. I think there's

some guards that can also. Who's the emergency snap. I got yelled. At one time, Rich Besaccio, I was doing a game on the radio and Besaco, who's your backup snapper? He goes, what are you asking that question for? I said, because I'm doing the game of the radio. I just want to know. He goes, you're chinks in it. I don't, I don't need a backup snap. Don't don't talk like that. I'm like, all right, I got yeah. I'm like here, I'm I'm just trying to think of, like late in

the game, who's snapping the ball? Besaca just lights into me. I'm like, all right, Actually, time you don't have a backup snappers to get the emergency snap, not the backup snapper. Still, that's that's still not quite as bad, though they don't want to hear that. Okay, So I'm uh practice in pads and the caller sort of alludes to it who

you're looking for h as far as putting the pads on. Uh. More than anything, I'm just I just love the one on one drills, you know, and especially going up tackles about how about if it's not like an obscure guy, where's Chaz Green, where's his mind? He's getting an IV right. Yeah, yeah, I understand. Yeah, but I'm with you on this because they're over got Cameron Fleming has not taken a snap. He's playing right tackle. You're gonna be the swing guy.

I want to see you play left because if he could play left, you probably can start teammate in New England one on the right side. Super Bowl right side. So because they had Solder on the other. Absolutely. Yeah. I don't know that right tackle messes up your offense, but I know left tackle does. For this group. It does. Oh, you can always move vile Collins. Then he got an option. Well it's an option and you got to make too. He looked good moving around yesterday too. Yeah. Wow Collins,

I mean, my gosh. Yeah, he's he's getting He's got this. He's all he's getting the hang of this thing. He really is talked about. All these linemen they all can move. Watch him, they're all they're massive, they can move. He does a kickstep where he gets so wide and and and next thing, you know, I mean, you know, they're they're they're trying like they're they're Laurens is trying to rush him and he kicks him so wide and Laurns just quit. It's like he was like, okay, I'm not

gonna beat you here, you know kind of things. So it's just a big body, that athletic and doing those kinds of things. By the way, as we close talking cowboys, Jason Witten, I mean I hate people like this. He can play football, he's an all American guy and everything.

He can also write. Apparently he wrote a story for ESPN dot com and uh, they just post it this morning, and it's about social media and how players need to turn off their mention that Twitter has its as its placed and he will he will use Twitter as far as keeping up with stories and things on that like that. But you turn off your mentions and you don't listen to the let me say it noise. Let me say

another thing, Vic and Ventura. If you're gonna tag me with a player, you know you know that that's okay. I mean yeah, but I'll come back at you if you're not right, I think the fictional right. Yeah, We're gonna find him. There's gotta be something I've been telling you. I've been telling you you know, when when you tag us, if you want to ask me a question and then you tag the player after I answer your question or whatever. You know, Shame on you, bro. I will come about.

I'll guarantee you. Somebody comes up to you and says, hi, my name's Vic, and you're gonna say where are you from? And he's gonna say Vin tur and I'm gonna tell him it if he makes it up, I'm gonna take a picture with that person when it happened, and I will like that picture yep on Twitter. There you go, twet it. We got a big weekend ahead, lots to talk about on Talking Yes Cowboys on Monday. I have

a great weekend and the break is straight ahead. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.