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Welcome to Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee, the official coffee sponsor of the Dallas Cowboys. We are live from the Star in Frisco. Here in the SWBC podcast studio, here with Isaiah stand back here with John Machoda. I am Josh Rodriguez filling in for Kyle Yeomans who's out. And also Nick Harris is not here today. What I don't know the heck. He just decided to do twenty hours of radio over the weekend and then like not come back.
How dare you? How dare He sent him some tea?
But uh uh it is uh the draft is over, guys. We actually have our twenty twenty four Dallas Cowboys draft class lots to discuss there. We got Zeke to discuss. So how are we feeling?
Guys? I was gonna ask you the same question, how am I feeling? How are you feeling?
I'm cautiously optimistic cautiously optimist. Cautiously optimistic. I think it's a well let's get into it, let's do it. Let's get into it right.
And that is a nice hoodie by the way.
Oh, thank John, How I'm good. I'm good. I was a little disappointed that Nixt not here. I wanted to give him some props for how good of a job I thought that they.
Did incredible, really good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, ye. It's funny because we are in a media workroom on the other side of the building. Why the draft's going on, all the other reporters and being around anybody for that, especially that entire Saturday, like yeah, and get annoying. And you can at least get out of the room and walk around. But if you're in the draft show, you got to go. You know, you got it. You have to be there for all the picks, and that that day can be a real, a real workout.
So I don't I don't envy them on that Saturday.
No, And if you're watching, they're eating between they just trying.
To do standing up, trying to walk around and stuff exactly.
Yeah, yeah, but shots of them and then also Chris Beam in the back.
From oh yeah, everything you guys did a great Jobamer.
Rolling all that beautiful beam footage try. Yeah, he did a great job, and Jazz as well. I mean, they just just killed it.
I think. You know, Beamer has to do work for every single pick.
Yeah, oh yeah, that's crazy, every single one. Dude's killing it.
Yeah, on the daily and they had and you guys had a lot of good stuff with Saturday morning before day three started, uh, with a lot of the members of the scouting staff in here talking about some of the picks and something. A lot of a lot of great content. Yeah, I mean, but the Draft shows it's always been great, so I know I'm not saying anything new to anybody that's watched it, but yeah, they did a great job this year.
Of course, of course. And it's funny like, even before I was even working here, my favorite thing to do was to listen to the Draft Show. Like, not even like a Homer take or anything like that. I would genuinely take my whole weekend and listen to all of the content. I would just drive around and listen to the Draft Show, especially Dallascawis dot Com. No commercials, you know, it was great. I loved it. And then to be kind of behind the scenes watching it. You know how
the sausage is made. Loved it, man, Yeah, it's a great experience. Isaiah's bored with me.
Let's get to it.
Let's get to the draft.
Gilling my lungs with oxygen exactly, all right?
So round one, pick twenty nine, Tyler Guidon, offensive tackle from Oklahoma, Round two, Marshawn Neeland defensive end, Western Michigan. Round three, Cooper beb offensive line, Kansas State. Yeah, we like that one. Then we had Maris Lufoul linebacker notre team with in the third round, Caitlin Carson cornerback Wake Forest in the fifth round, of Ryan florinoy wide receiver
Southeast Missouri State sixth round. Then Nathan Thomas offensive tackle Louisyanna Lafayette in the seventh round, and then finally Justin Rodgers defensive tackle tackle from Auburn in the seventh round, two hundred and forty fourth pick.
So that is our.
Rookie class, Gretz, I don't want you guys to grade this. I hate grading classes. How do we feel?
Just a gut feeling, I honestly feel while I was watching it, Okay, I was actually at a former NFL players event put on by an NFL PA, and I was watching it. They were talking, but I'm literally watching the screen the whole time because I'm interested in what's going on.
And I am relatively proud about what the Cowboys did, I.
Especially the consciously optimistic Relatively, I'm.
Relatively proud because.
I'm I'm proud of the fact that they moved back and acquired what they needed.
Absolutely, did they.
Miss out on somebody who could have came in and had an immediate impact. Absolutely, Absolutely, everybody knows that that was the pick. But they went back and got a third and I think that was huge. And I think the conversations were having, you know, former players. You know, guys have their opinions, very opinionated, and I'm like, there's not enough cash.
There's not enough cash.
You go get who you want on the open market, and you've missed the major wave of that. Anyways, you have to acquire picks. So for them to actually acknowledge that, I feel like they are really facing themselves in the mirror and making some very sound and mature decisions this year in regards to the organization as a whole and moving back and acquiring another pick and the third was huge for them, and then I think they got they
addressed some of their needs. Going into this draft, we knew they weren't going to be able to address every single hole. There was twenty gaps, but I think they did a good job of saying, Okay, you know what, we can't address everything, but let's at least feel really good about one about one aspect of our team, and that was the offensive line.
And I'm very proud that they did that.
I would I'm just telling some friends this the other day, even before the draft starts, I don't even need to know which players are out there. If you tell me that my team has the twenty fourth pick in the draft, and before the draft even starts, you go, well, I'm gonna move you back to twenty nine, but I'm gonna also give you an early third. I really don't even need to know out there. I think I'm taking it
every time. And so for them to get on the clock and make that move, they could easily taken Tyler Guyton at twenty four and people have been like, yeah, it makes sense. He was the next best offensive tackle on the board. I think Graham Barton is probably the one across the board. More people would have the higher great on cleaner prospect probably steps in right away and are less question marks. But you could easily have taken
guit In there. But then to move back to twenty nine and then get that early third and to use it on a guy like Cooper Bebe who he could be your center if that doesn't work out, he could be Zach Martin's air parent at right guard. And then so that was the other part of it, because I look at twenty fourteen draft class with Zach Martin to Marcus Lawrence, they both are entering the final years of their contracts. Hey, I'm not saying this their final year
with the Cowboys, but it might be. And if it is, you with BB with Kneeland in the second round, you've addressed guys that, hey, we have to get more depth, we have to get talent at those positions because we could have some serious holes there the following year. In that being said, the one part that I did like is just the running back thing, because I felt like, I don't just judge it off of this draft class.
I judge off the last two and for you not to get a running back in the second, third, fourth, fifth round each of these past two drafts. I just
see it. As you know, after the draft, they talk about how like, well, you know, when we got on the board, there just wasn't there wasn't a running back there that we like more than the player we drafted, And I get that, but also it shows you how you value the running back position, and I just I'm getting the feeling about running back the same way I felt about this team for a while that safety, where it was like not only were they not really interested
in doing much at safety, it was like nobody in the league was doing less at safety than the Cowboys. And that's kind of where they've gotten with running back. But as Jerry mentioned after the draft, I don't think that they're done at running back. It's one of those things where they could go into the season and if no one's really emerging, they their hand could be forced ray to make a move, kind of like they did
for a Marii Cooper in twenty nineteen. The only thing is, though, is that you're not gonna have to give up a one to get a veteran running back from another team. That's the one thing. Much like safety, if you're going to devalue certain positions. I get it because of the way the market is at them. But it's one of those things where I didn't expect them to do much, but I expected them to do more than where we sit today.
But I think it's without that fourth round pick. I think that was really it. That's when you saw those running backs flying off the board.
Makes me think even if they had the fourth round or they weren't taking a running back, really yeah, I think they would have. I think of no matter if you if you devalue the position to a certain extent, I think that you can talk yourself out of anything if you can talk yourself into another player there. There could have been another offensive lineman there. They talk ab outgrade the offensive line classes. You could have taken a defensive tackle there, could have taken a corner maybe early
earlier than yeah earlier. Yeah, right, So I think that they could have talked themselves out of any of those those I don't think they loved any of them, to be honest with you, I don't think they loved any of the running backs last year either.
Well, and you also have to think that the Zekil Elliott talk was pretty prominent. Before the draft even started, and I think that was sort of the writing on the wall. Yeah, even coming out of the draft. Even Jor Jones even said that, I think in the first presser after they picked Tyler Gotten was that very much he thinks Zeke is still a starter in the NFL. So I think the running was on the wall even before the draft.
For sure. But I just think that there's a decent chance that I'm not gonna say it's less than fifty percent, but there's there's somewhat of a chance that the leading rusher for the Dallas Cowboys in twenty twenty four still is even on the roster.
Yet.
I think that's fair. And he even said in the draft sort of post mortem, was that, you know, he's seen teams that have won the Super Bowl that have shoed for a running back mid season.
I mean, heck, you just look at the teams that won Super Bowl the last few years. I mean, the Chiefs have got it done with a late round pick, and but checko, you look at that Rams team they had Sony Michelle and Cam Akers and then the year before that one or maybe you gotta go two years to go to twenty twenty with the with the Patriot, I mean, I'm sorry. With the Bucks, they signed Leonard Fournette like in September, right before that season started, and he ended up being there. I mean, he was a
really good piece for that team. So I think there could still be some moving pieces at running back.
I'm not tripping on the running back no, like I'm really because it goes back to what I've always stated. If you have a beast of an offensive line, most running backs are fully capable of running where they're supposed to go.
Right.
There's not you could probably name on one hand in the league. Now, how many running backs are creators? Honest, I mean it's a short list off. How many guys are like actual creatives.
That you Any of those guys that you name, those are significant investments, whether it be through free agency or draft.
Yeah, and guys, most guys most teams have a two headed monster, right, So they're not they're not relying on one on one running back, so you're gonna have to have a tandem. And usually even that primary guy, again, he's not a creator type back. He's just he's just a tried and true back that just knows how to follow his blockers. And I think if you invest in your offensive line, like the Cowboys seemingly are now getting back to right, and you can play some bully ball.
Let's just imagine.
I'm hopeful that Cooper b B play center. I'm hoping that he can learn how to snap the ball and have a shotgun snap because if he does, then you have you got some beef up front. You have some beef up from it. Those three in the middle, it's like the dog on flying v Tyler Smith, Cooverer, bebe Right and and freaking big Zach. Like, if you can have those three going forward okay and moving guys off the ball, you anybody could run behind office lineman that
can move guys to the second level. So it's that's why I believe that the running back position is being the value because you're seeing less guys who have the ability to be a Sakwan.
To be a Josh Jacobs, to be those.
Dual threat you know, running backs that can really create. And the only reason why King Henry is getting paid what he's getting paid because he's just mammoth right. But think about how many other running backs are true creators. Aaron Jones was freaking balling still and guess what he got cut.
Yeah, I mean I think of b Jeon Robinson, but again, b Jon Robinson. You got to spend a very high pick to get Bjeon Robinson.
There might there might be there might be a list of six meet maybe Yeah, guys that you think of that, like you know what, like by himself, like you better, you better be concerned about what he can do to.
You by himself.
Would you say Saquan is one of those? Absolutely, but he's getting paid twenty seven million.
Side of that, every other team is accompanying their primary back with somebody else and they're not just absolute dogs at the position.
It's not the disrespect the position at all.
I'm just saying, if you're not making guys miss, if you're not making that first guy miss, then you're pretty much like most backs, as long as you're not fooling the ball, right.
I think when the final numbers come out on that Zeke deal, it's not gonna be close to three.
No, it's too guaranteed incentives.
Just waiting to real but those come out.
Yeah, okay, gotcha.
Yeah, I don't know that it's going to be something where they're not spending significantly on Ezekiel Eliot. Now they still do have I think it's six in dad cap off of his previous contract or whatever. But I think on the new deal it's nothing. But that doesn't fact that it's nothing significant.
Yeah.
No, well, I kind of wanted to get into the Zeke of it all. I mean, what was kind of I guess we knew question mark yit. Yeah, going into the draft that this is going to be sort of the situation regardless if they picked a running back in the later rounds, fourth, fifth, sixth. I mean, obviously we didn't have a fourth. But do we think that Zeke is gonna sort of supplement the run game or are we expecting you know, vintage Zeke.
No supplement, definitely a supplement. I mean, you look at it.
I mean it's unfortunate all these stats now are available and his numbers have literally rescinded every single year, right, So I mean now that someone has utilization exactly right, So some of that's unfair. That's why I don't like just looking purely at stats. But the reality is he's towards the in the latter half of his career. You know, you have complimentary backs here, you have Rico, you got Royce,
you got you got Zeke, and you got Deuce. And again I'm still the jury's kind of out on Deuce still for me, just because.
Of what he can provide in other aspects of the game.
But I'm I don't feel bad if you go into the season with those three at running back. I truly don't, because again, what are you looking to do? What is your system to do? Is your system made for splash plays? Is your system made just to simply move the chains? If your system's made to simply just play bully ball? I like that three headed monster.
So if this was the roster and they're playing on Sunday when the game's over, who do you think got the most carries?
Royce?
And how many you think like ten?
Thirteen?
Oh okay, yeah, if.
That I mean, I mean, you know what I'm saying, Like, I mean, again, you can rotate those guys through and you're probably gonna get the same productivity out of all of them because they're they're all powerful backs, they all run downhill, they're all one cut guys.
Like they're the same type of back.
That's not the same that they're the exact same player, but their styles are similar.
Their styles are very similar.
And if you're gonna have and they all have the ability to block, right, if you're gonna be back there throwing a rock, they all have the ability to block.
Stutup.
I'm thinking, I'm truly starting to see that these guys want to just go downhill.
Yeah, Like that's what I'm That's what it's coming to.
I'm interested to see when they run out there the first time with the ones out knocks nerd. I just I find it hearted believe that Zeke ain't gonna be out there at running back with the one.
No.
I think he starts for sure. Yeah, but I think it, like you're saying, it is a sort of running back by committee. And I feel much more confident in a running back by committee than I ever did the wide receiver by committee. You know that we were trying to do for a while there that season that we traded
for Mark Cooper. But it just kind of I think a big part of it is that you totally retooled and redefined what our offensive line is with the twenty fourth pick in the NFL draft, Like you you turn that into two picks, You turned that into Tyler Rutton and Cooper Beb. I think huge the offensive line, the new look offensive line is going to be They're gonna mall I mean, and it will show no matter who is running.
It's an attitude change. It truly is an attitude change. And I love it. Yeah, I love the.
Fact that there's an attitude two change there. I love Tyler Biadis, but I never felt like he had the nasty I mean, I think I thought he was a good player. I always was on record saying that I thought he was undersized, that he didn't have necessarily strength to move the big boys off the ball. And I didn't. I never got the sense that he had that nastiness to them. Yeah, you know, Cooper BB does Cooper Bean. If you can snap the ball, then you know that
you got Tyler Smith who's nasty. You know Zach's nasty. So again, if you can spearhead the middle of your offensive line with three nasty casts that can move everybody off the ball, that's dangerous, regardless of who's behind you. And that's what I'm saying, Like, I'm less concerned about who's tode in the rock as long as they don't put the ball on the ground.
I'm not big on the whole drafting for one season, so I love the picks just because, like I said, the Scoober BB thing could totally not work out at center. Yeah, and I still think you have a really good guard and maybe that's TJ Bass ends up being center. Maybe brock Hoffman impresses them in training camp and he's the center. I just like that there's gonna be a spot for him somewhere, and whether it's this season or in the
near future. And I feel the same way about Guyton, Like I think with Geyton moving from the right side to the left side, probably gonna be some growing pains, probably can be a little bit of rust. There's probably gon be some ups and downs and things like that.
But I just like the idea of being, hey, we're putting this guy with Tyler Smith, and we're gonna try and have these guys worked together for the next decade, and we think that ultimately it's gonna be a really good group, even if it does start out a little rough. It's it's it's about more than just the first you know, five six games or whatever it takes for him to kind of get comfortable there.
Will you have positional flex I mean, to your point, if you had to play musical chairs, you have the guys to be to play it. Right, if you needed to say that BB wasn't ready to play center, Okay, now he's just backing up your right guard position, right, or maybe Tyler Guiden's not ready to play maybe he can't make that switch immediately to left tackle. So what now you bump Tyler Smith out and you put BB at the left right, right TJ.
You know Bass comes in at center. Right, you still have Zach Martin.
What if Terrence Steel goes down, Well, Guiden, that's your natural position, so go out to the right side.
So you have the flexibility to move guys around.
That's not to say that you should want to, but you have the availability and you have the capability of doing so.
It's funny because we went into this into this draft with a lot of questions about the offensive line, and for me, I only have one left and that's just really who's going to run run away with that swing tackle job? Like who will be the swing tack because as you mentioned, like if Terrence Steals go down or Geitten, it is a position where you really do need that third offensive tack will be in somebody that you can
count on. That's the only thing that I really going into Oxnard, I'm not too sure about, like who will emerge there? Will it be let's go? Can he stay healthy? Will it be awesome? Richards? I don't know about that position. Everything else though, even in the depth in the middle, I feel much better about now than I did going into the draft, And I.
Think that's that's the whole point of it. You know, it's not going to be it's going to be a long term answer and in the short term, it's like you have to determine who the five best guys are and put them out on the field and see how they work together. Right, Well, let's take our first break. When we come back, we'll discuss more on this draft class and maybe more. Zekil Elliott leave us a text. Our text line is eight one seven two nine zero
three two nine eight. We'll be right back after this break.
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Today, Cowboys fans. After that move, we've just coined the term rowdy replay. Let's roll back the table.
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Welcome back into Dear Doctor, the show where I answer life's questions with an ice cold can of doctor Pepper. Sheila, let's hear from my next caller, Would you, Dear doctor?
My friend supported me during a tough time. But what's the right gift that says thanks for.
Being the souldier to cry out? Okay, this one's easy, I say, give her a delicious doctor Pepper. Nothing says thanks good better than one of a kind soda. Yes, any Doctor Pepper flavor will do.
Now.
Just a reminder that I don't need to be a real doctor to know that Doctor Pepper is the one you deserve.
To Talking Cowboys.
Welcome back to Talking Cowboy is sponsored by Black Rifle, The official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. The next segment is brought to you by Quaker Oats, the super trusted superfood of the TOAs Cowboys. Isaiah, did you get your oats in today?
I did not.
I'm actually trying to cut my carbs a little bit right now. You got to car my carb count, trying to get pool ready, you know.
But when you are doing carbs, the first choice oats.
Yeah, slow burn a slow burning carb, man, people, That's why the Quaker oats is a good morning oat, right, good morning car because it's not a quick burn.
Now, if you're going to work out, you might want to have something else, right.
But if you're looking for a long standing carbohydrate that keeps you throughout the day kind of keeps your energy levels high, Quaker oats is where it's at.
Man.
People don't understand you have to consume different types of carbs based upon what your day looks like.
I don't. I only do Quaker oats, only quakeross. Yeah, yeah, I just add different you know, protein.
What's your number one topic for oats?
Blueberries?
Really?
See, I can't do hot hot cereal with with a fruit, with fruit, I can.
Do hot fruit well, if you put a little honey, I don't know. That's just me.
What about you?
I don't I don't know.
I don't guess.
I returned this to me because I always say.
That, bimber, what's your what's your go to for.
Eating person at all?
So I do honey inside, yeah, honey.
Yeah. I'm a brown sugar guy.
So I used to do brown sugar, but I didn't want to put sugar in there, so I grab You.
Know who's saying, big oat guy for real kids, Nate Newton, big dog.
He I talked to Big Nate yesterday.
Man, how was he doing?
He said, he is moving around. I was so happy.
Listen. I love Nate. Nate's like a big uncle to me. Right.
We spent a lot of time together obviously during the season, and I I love to do and I hate seeing former players in pain, but I really hate seeing Big Nate in pain. Right, So walking around all those years of blocking for inmate and Troy and and he hurts when he walks right his knees and his knees was shot.
So Big Nate had had double knee surgery.
It didn't double knee surgery, and didn't tell anybody about it.
No double knees, laid up in bed for four to six weeks, legs are straight and now he said he used to struggle to walk for one mile back in the you know before before surgery.
And he said, but without you know, causing any any kind of anguish.
Even a training camp, he would call us be like, hey, do you have the car? Like, can you pick us up?
My dog? Made me smile so big. Yes, he said, he's walking two to three miles a day right now with these new knees. So I'm I'm so happy for him. Man. He deserves it.
All the former players that put their you know, sweat, equity in blood, sweat and tears, deserve to feel good when they wake up. And the reality is most guys don't. And I'm happy that he is feeling much better than what he was just even a month ago, two months ago.
He's a good dude.
It's amazing.
Anytime you've seen him around here. I remember back at Valley Rancher run into him. It's always there's always something. He's always in good mood. There's always something funny that he has to say, there's always he just brings a good vibe wherever he's at Yeah. So no, I didn't even know about that. That's great.
I called him to ask the first question I asked him, I said, you're ready to race yet? Yeah, he's a nine.
I'm still ready for my big fellow, you know what I mean, Like he'll shout out down the hall like, no matter.
Who's the hallway, big fella, he's not quiet.
Yeah, man, I'm a big guy. I get it. And he has to be also happy about this draft class. Yes, yes, new offensive lineman.
Right, yep. The big fellas man, the big Fellas is back. Billy Ball. That's what I'm calling it, called make go ahead and make the shirt. Billy Ball's back. All right.
So we had a couple of signings, well a couple we had, I guess technically two signings yesterday. We also had Damien Wilson sign yesterday. Did you kind of get any interest, Like, what what do you think about the signing? Over overall?
I think they were short at linebacker. They needed at least one more linebacker. After the draft, Steven had mentioned Steve Jones had mentioned that they had been in talks on Saturday with some veteran free agent players just to kind of he said get their roster, right, I think is how he worded it. So I think that that's what it was, because I think they're at six right now, six true off the ball line. I don't count like as a linebacker. I just I don't so six true
off the balls. So I would say I think there's a good chance they keep five or six.
When you when you say it depends on what what Zimmer ends up doing.
Yeah, I don't think anybody knows what Zimmer is doing, especially.
Factory factor in efactor in what they'll lead on defense because they're going to go away from the Marquise Bell, one Y Thomas safety come up play linebackers. And then also the fact on they're gonna have to need a lot of those guys that contribute on special teams. And so that's why I'm thinking they got to keep at least five and they could potentially keep six, And so they're at six right now on the roster with Uh
it would be Damian Wilson. I think it's Buddy Johnson. Uh, they got Eric Kendricks that they obviously signed to the one year deal, Dimoon Clark to Marvin over shown and then Maurice Yeah. The late third round pick Maurice l Yeah, so they are six Marris, Yeah, so they got six right now?
You pronounce his last name Loufou Marris Lufou.
Yeah.
So, and he's I guess on the smaller side as far as linebackers go, he's more of the athletic tie Yeah, for sure, kind of coverage up the middle.
And I think he came Notre Dame.
Is a safety, yeah, and some of his issues like that, some of the cons I guess on his tape was run blocking right or not run blocking, run stopping? Yeah. I wonder how that plays out though in Mike Zimmer's defense.
I don't know.
I'm looking forward to seeing coach Zimmer's defense. I really we know what he's done historically, but the moves of the they're making roster wise right now, how they're forming this defensive roster doesn't look anything remotely like what he's done in the past. So I'm curious as to what his game plan is.
So a question for you, John, how do the Cowboys fill out the rest of their roster? I know you kind of brought this up on Well you have a whole article about it on the Athletic Well to the athletic.
I think the big thing is is that they'll have to do They're probably at least one trade somewhere along the lines for some type of a veteran player. Whether I think right now it's defensive tackle. I mean, they're just they're still thin at defensive tackle. Even if even if you have your seventh round pick out Auburn come in and Justin Rodgers and contribute, I still think that you then so then he makes up for the loss of Jonathan Hankins. Well, then you still don't make up
for the loss of Neville Gallimore. You still you're still I think one defensive tackle there short and so I think I could see them doing it potentially a trade there. I wouldn't be surprised if they signed some guys in the next week or so, just because now we're at a point where they don't count for the comp picks for the following year. So I think you'll see some more movement there. But I also think it's it's one of those things like you go back to training camp.
I think it was two years ago where we went into camp and we didn't know that they were gonna go get Anthony Barr. You know, they's just like moves like that that can still be made that of course, they're probably not going to be like the trading the first round pick for Marik Cooper, you know, but they got different ways they can maneuver. And then also there's a chance that a couple of these underrafted free agents make the squad as well. So I think that's how
it gets filled out. But I think the key thing is is that they're really going to count a lot on some of these second, third year guys that really have to take a jump, you know, whether you talk about Schoonmaker, Overshown, Mazzie Smith, Sam Williams, Jalen Tolbert, there's a lot of guys that have been in the roster to have had somewhat roles, but now they really gotta you know, they areing to depend on them a lot more.
And I think who had a kind of a tough go at it last season, Dumont Clark. I really am excited to see what he does, not out of position, I think, you know, putting him into the line backer position that he started at, and what he's going to do going forward. I want to see what he does at that position, and I think like you said overall that the second third year players, how they perform is gonna, you know, bode well for what we do for the rest of the season. Is they anything No, I was just.
Going to ask you guys, did you guys have any surprises? Was there anything that surprised you guys or at any disappointments in regards to the draft.
I think Marshaw Neeland was a surprise for me me as well. But you brought up a really good point in it being Tank Lawrence's last season under contract with Cowboys, And I think if if you think that the salary cap for this year is really bad, this off season is bad, wait until next year. So and not to say that there's running on the wall there, but I mean just the fact of the matter, like I don't know if we have enough to pay another season for DeMarcus Lawrence.
Maybe.
Well, but that was a big surprise to me. I didn't expect that at all, especially when you know all of the talk is running back at the time.
See, I wasn't thinking running back.
Go ahead, what do you think running back? Not getting a running back was to me the biggest disappointment. And I'm big and I don't really judge drafts too much after the first two days. I think there's a lot of luck involved with hitting on one of those picks on Saturday, four more than one pick. If you can hit on that on Saturday, you can get another Duran Bland in the fifth round. That's say, that's icing on
the cake. But I judge it more off the first you know, two days of first three rounds and not getting a running back. That was probably my biggest surprise, But if just from a kind of a fun standpoint on Saturday, it was not taking Jerry Rice's kid, Like I just was like, hey, if you're interested in running back, And I think that part of that is me being a writer. I like the story, just like when they drafted Douce Fawn. But I was kind of surprised that
that Brandon Rice fell that far. He was a productive player at USC, He's obviously got great pedigree, and he falls the seventh round. That was the only one, just because I watched him in college. Obviously you know his dad is the goat and yeah, but outside of that, no, I mean, I think it was a really good draft. I don't think there was really any big surprises other than the fact that running back, defensive tackle I think are still big question marks on this team.
Yeah, Marshaw Kneeland was the was the knee jerker.
Yeah.
For me, I'm not disappointed that they got him. Obviously, he seemingly is a productive player, and it makes sense in terms of what potentially is coming down the road, and especially losing Fowler and losing Armstrong. I mean, you're you're at a little light in the button where you were that was your heaviest position. Now you're relatively light there or at least normal. I was expecting them to get a big boy d tackle.
Yeah.
Now, obviously they got Rogers in the seventh, but I was expecting them to get two big boys up front. I expect them to go heavy on offensive line, which they did, and I expect them to go heavy on the defensive line, just because the trenches is where you win ball games, and the trenches is where this team has struggled. So I was a little thrown off by the kneeling. I'm like, we have the ends, you know
what I'm saying. Like we got d N's, I mean, we picked up Sam Wims and Williams is still there, you know, Mike is still there, like we got we have some guys we drafted.
You know, what's his name, Crapko. Yeah, we drafted for Hoko, Like he's there.
We haven't seen much from him yet, so drafting another one it just threw me off because I'm like, there's needs, Like that wasn't a need for me.
I think it was. Now.
He might have been very well, been one of the higher rated guys on their board, and that might have been what they were going for, but I'm like, there's needs that needed to be addressed. And much like people in Atlanta were mad about, you know, my got PINX getting drafted. Have they already had a quarterback.
I'm like, hey, like we have dms, we need d tackles. So that was my thinking.
I will say this though, when they tell you after that first rounds over that when they were on the clock at twenty four and there were four players that they had in mind at twenty four, so they felt like if they moved back to twenty nine they could still get one of those guys. And so those four guys were Jordan Morgan, Graham Barton, Tyler Geydon, and Missouri
defensive end Darius Robinson. So I think if you knew going in that they liked him that much that if Geyton goes before that, they could have taken Darius Robinson at twenty nine. I think then maybe it changes your thinking a little bit that, well, hey, maybe they look at d End a little bit, you know, more than they do at some other positions like that. That's the
only thing that I think factors in with there. But it was a surprise just because he's not a player that we heard a ton about going into the draft. But when they went on the clock, he was, I believe most people as best player or one of their top players available. So it wasn't like they were like, hey, we need a d End right now, let's reach for somebody. I mean, was probably the best one available.
They value that position more than I think any I think any of the shows that I was listening to on DOSK Cowboys dot Com, I don't think defensive end was a big knee no that we brought up. I mean, especially myself, I wasn't really looking at that position.
After the draft, though, I'll tell you something came up that I was like, I couldn't wait to ask you about this. So whether you talk about Niland or you talk about Leafou the linebacker in late third. The Cowboys talk a lot about how when you watched film on them, how they have very high effort, don't take any plays off, you know, like really the blue collar workman like stuff
like that. So I wanted to ask you, do you think that they were looking for that because they want to add more of that to continue to build this defense, or do you feel like last year's defense might have been missing that. I don't know that there's a right answer. I just it was something I thought of when they
said it. I'm like that they take these two defensive players the first two days of the draft, and those are key traits that they liked in both of them that they said stood out on both those players, and they watch tape on them.
Yeah, I think that has a lot to do with I don't want to Okay, I'm gonna say it.
Dan Quinn.
Obviously you have to be a high energy, high effort guy to play underneath Dan Quinn. You just have to be. You have to be a relentless type player. I also believe. But I think he I think he valued versatility and athleticism more.
I don't want to say more, but it was kind of on the same level.
Right, he could feel like he could pull that out of you, right, he could pull that extra effort out of you, right, or the determination like as long as you're athletic and you're willing, like he got you right because he had he just had the ability to mentor guys. I think now that you switched over to Zimmer, I think there's less emphasis on athleticism and there's more emphasis
on are you a hard nosed football player? And I think that's That's not to say that dan Quinn didn't value that either, cause I know that's gonna be there's.
A little more pragmatic.
I just think that Zimmer doesn't value athleticism as much. He's like, hey, are you big and are physical?
And are are you? Are you?
Are you a hard nosed player that I don't have to coach effort on because I don't have time to coach effort I coach football players.
It is wild though to me again, like for you, you've been around it, You've seen the behind the scenes way more than I ever have. So I just am always amazed at the whole effort thing because I just assume that, like, if you're going to make it to this level, then you then you must give high effort all the time. It's just it's the percentage to make it to the
NFL or have a chance. He was so small that I feel like you'd I mean, I get that there are some freaking athletes out there that are just like, well, you can take place off your.
Busies, let's look at it like this.
And I don't I don't like putting this mark on players, right, but it's just I just go off of what I see on film. When you draft a Massie Smith in the first round last year, you drafted him off of potential and athleticism and how freakish of an athlete he is, and.
Again going to the dan Quinn tree, like that's what he values.
Like, Okay, I could pull the other stuff out of them, but you couldn't that one right seemingly, not to say he wasn't give an effort, but it just baseball what came across for them the film.
No, everything you just said right there. I feel like it was the exact same with Brad Maryonnelli, Tristan.
Hill, there you go, there you go so now so now I think you're you have a change of regime on that side of the ball.
And again, what you know about Zimmer.
He's hard, nos, he likes big physical guys, and he's gonna he's gonna come at you right. So those were the type of players that seemingly he went out and got. Neiland's a big physical guy who's gonna come downhill. He's not got to coach you on effort. He's gonna show you some more skills. He's gonna educate you and teach you some more things, answer your toolbox. But he's not
gonna have to tell you to go right. And I think that's really where he's going the same thing with with luafulu foul, lufaul, I'm gonna get that down, lufoul. My apologies if he's listening, but lufoul. Like again, that's from what I've seen on film. He's a high energy, high just effort guy. Everything else I can coach you up on, I can coach you up on technique, right, but I need you to be balls to the wall, high effort guy every single time.
They well kay Cat mentioned and with Leofoo's arms being thirty four inches.
Yeah, I mean that's go go gradgets.
Yeah, that seems pretty crazy for I know, thirty two is great for a defensive back.
So oh yeah, no, that's that's pretty.
What you're measuring that.
I don't know. I don't know.
I guess some of ringutint arms couple maybe doesn't have very long arms either.
No, but he gets underneath everybody. Yeah, yeah, surprisingly he got He has a.
Hot I mean he he binds man for what sixty three three twenty is that what he is?
Actually didn't write it down.
I think sixty three three twenty three run there. I mean, that's a big boyfriend.
And you watch his film. He gets underneath guys and he locks on. He's like a dog on pit. He doesn't let loose.
All right, boys, let's take our second break. More talking cowboys.
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To the Talking Cowboys.
Welcome back to Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Raffle Coffee. The last segment is brought to you by Visilne the official Smile. I Love the Dallas Cowboys. Back here with John Machoda, back here with Isaiah, stand back with those pearly whites. It's right boys. Last segment. What do we want to get into?
Okay, yeah, go ahead.
You were obviously at the press conferences after the draft. Was there anything that stood out about the comments about any of these players individually that kind of out to you.
I'd say that when I said earlier about the defensive players in the effort, Yeah, because I just assumed because I'm not one of these guys that just crushes the tape for the draft prospects. That's never been my thing. I've luckily been tight with Dan Brugler for a while now, and I lean on him for a lot of that stuff.
So the beast I almost like a boat. You know, you don't want to own the boat. You want to know somebody who has the boat.
There you go, exactly exactly. But but plus, I just I can't think of myself being able to put in the time that he does that come up with all that stuff and the same I mean, same thing we brought us. I mean, that was his career for so long. Like I just I like listening to what they have
to say. So anyway, I'm trying to think that the two things that will stand out to me from just following the NFL that are so different with the Cowboys from other teams are whether you talk about the pre draft press conference at the end of all these days, how much that they are just willing to talk about Ezekiel Elliott. Yeah, that just doesn't happen in other places. Jerry talking about Jonathan Brooks and and talk so highly of him, saying it was the best pre draft interview
he's ever had. Like people thinking that Jerry is doing that like mistakenly because they want to get He knew that they were never getting Jonathan Brooks. That's why he said that. That's Jerry's gamesmanship. That doesn't happen though, again with other teams really. And then the other one was, like I said earlier about they tell you the four guys they were considering on the board. Most teams won't
do that. And the reason you don't do that is because if Tyler Guitton doesn't pan out or Babe doesn't pan out, and Darius Robinson ends up being von Miller or Graham Barton ends up being Zach Martin or something like that, you.
Have these two.
I'm telling you, hey, and it's the history of the franchise. I'm telling you I will always remember one of my fondest memories from from Valley Ranch and I have several, but one of them is walking with like a couple other reporters with Jerry in twenty twelve at Or they traded up and got Morse Claiborne. And so it was at the end of day two and it was after the press characters and walk criteria, We're just like, hey, if you did have that second that you didn't trade
for Claiborne, who are you going to take? And he's like, oh, that UTAs State linebacker. And I knew when he said that. It's not like he's just gonna say whatever, and it's Uta State. Whatever you and that's Bobby Wagner. And so it's like you like look back on that and you're like, you probably so you could have had Michael Brockers and Bobby Wagner or Morse Claiborne. And it's like, in the moment, people wouldn't because how many how much did people really
know at that time about the UTA State linebacker? You didn't know he was going to be what it was, and when it happened, you were like, man, they're putting together Brandon car with Mo Claiborne, Like, man, this defensive backfield is going to be crazy and obviously didn't live
up to the investments. And I bring that up to say also that that's the last time that I felt like the organization was super aggressive, like and they've been a lot more conservative since then, whether it's free agency trading up in the draft.
And you think that was a reaction to the more absolutely.
And the and the branded car thing too. They haven't had a significant free agency signing since then. Outside the building, that inane for the time, right, No, no, it was of what.
Thirty guaranteed and at the time we were like wait.
What no, no, it's five years, fifty point one million dollar fifty yeah, fifty yeah, yeah, because I remember it was fifty point one so that he could reset the whatever the top corner money was at the time, which is crazy thing now because now top corners are getting over twenty you know, so of course, but yeah, that's really it. They're always they're always entertaining though they're always
in like all those press conferences that they do. That's why people ask me, well, why didn't you go back to Detroit for the draft, and like, you want to be wherever if you're covering the Dale Skyways draft. You want to be wherever Jerry Jones is because you just never know what he's going to say. You'd never know which direction it's going to go in there. You mean, I mean to sit there and talk about how deep the offensive line was in this draft and say, well,
why do you Rob Banks? That's because for the money is like, it's a great it's a great anecdote, and it's a great thing, including your stories. But again, it's just one of those things that most other teams owner shams aren't saying.
Or even the rowdy thing.
It was the rowdy thing of course.
Yeah, no with the lever zero.
Yeah, yeah, making a joke that you know, he was asked if he wouldn't mind a player wearing number zero, which I think a lot of people would want. The Marvey On overshown. I think, you know, that was the number that fits with him. And I think his even his Twitter handle is something like agent zero or something. I could be rung in that. I don't know, but anyway, and and he just made a joke about how like, well that's Rowdy's number. We got to ask Rowdy first,
somebody somebody can wear that. But yeah, it's just it's always entertaining. But there's just a lot of little things that they do that's a lot different than other teams for.
Sure, outside of the Cowboys. What was the most surprising pick for you guys just overall?
Just oh, it's not even close. At your boy Pennix, that's right. And the only reason I say it, the only reason is because of the kirk Cousins thing. Yes, yeah, they didn't. If they didn't sign Kirk Cousins and give them basically a one hundred million dollars guaranteed ninety I think it is, then it. I'm fine with it because I saw plenty from Michael Penix that go. I can easily see why this guy would be a top fifteen pick.
You know, I feel like me personally, and I'm again not crushing the tape like a lot of other people are, but I saw more from Michael Penox in college than I did J. J. McCarthy and and I mean JJ McCarthy's that talk about him leading up to the draft. It was crazy. I mean the only people that were talked about more were probably Caleb Williams, and I guess maybe Jade and Daniels and then right there. I felt like J. J. McCarthy was talking about more than Drake
may Penix all those guys. But I would say that was the one surprise. And then again, I gotta stick with quarterbacks. It's just when all those guys were going and then bow Nicks went, I thought for sure Spencer Rattler would go with like in another twenty thirty picks. He ran the last as long as he did. That was kind of surprising me too.
He waited for a while with Pennix. I was when it got to I think it was the Giants pick. I was like please no.
Yeah, yeah.
After our talk, I was like, I hope this is what.
Were you thinking though, Falcons go on the clock? I mean, are you thinking Falcons there are a possibility there?
No, Okay, I didn't.
Where would you think in that he possibly where would have been a good fit for him.
I think he was the best available quarterback. Yeah, honest with you, I think he was the best quarterback. After No, I think he was the best quarterback. Yeah, yeah, period. I think he's better than Wims. That's just my opinion. That's just being genuine. That's not even being a fan of you. Dub that's I think he's the most pure quarterback that was in this draft. Ability to throw the rock. This dude is a specimen when he comes to throwing
that rock. The only reason why they had NOx on those is because his injuries before he got to up. But his dude led the FBS last did you know, not this year, but the previous year in passing and then he was the runner up to a Heisman this year, so like there was just no respect being placed on his name at all. He could make throws that none of those guys could make. But I'm happy for him. I that was very ballsy of Atlanta to do that, but I'm very happy for Pinnicks.
You no wonder how much it hurt him though, that that final game against Michigan.
It was almost a.
Little bit of a deer in the headlights. It was steel that where you were like the moment like I was almost too yeah, And I wonder if that, excuse me, I impacted it at all. It shouldn't have because he's got such a big body of work. But I always wonder with like things like that. But then again, man, as someone in that roots against the University of Michigan, C J. Stroud did not play well in either of Ohio State's games against Michigan, and he comes to the NFL and he is a baller.
So I know we don't have enough time to address this question, okay, but I have to bring it up. I wanted to talk about well, the cornerback draft too. I didn't know how you guys feel about Kaitlin Carson. But anyway, real quick, the receiver market is exponentially going up.
Yeah, we didn't tell you that happened right before the draft.
Quickly does this deal with ceedee LAMB need to get done because I'm on Ron Saint Brown got thirty a year immediately after Philadelphia. Say hey, JJ, don't even don't even don't even raise your eyebrow.
We got you. Here's thirty two. Yeah, got you. So now CDs like oh aj Brown got thirty two. That's interesting, Let's start the conversation at thirty four.
My problem is, though, I will say about this, is that we don't know what his side has asked for. They might have, They might be asking for thirty five right out the game day entire.
Yesterday's price is not today's price. Quote boy, this but his philosopher named fat Joe.
So what about this, though, I think you don't.
Have to do it before Justin Jefferson personally, Justin Jeffers's gonna wait.
What if they keep waiting to what if they're willing to use multiple franchise tags. I mean, it'll get ugly. But what if that what if that's in the.
And in their plans, then what are you telling Micah?
No, I'm saying, well, one of them, you'll you'll, You'll have to get done the other one.
I don't see them using a franchise tag on CD if this gets ugly because of what it would do to Micah.
So this I'm saying, this deal has to get done a sap.
But but if is Micah going to care if they agree to a contract cent you with him makes him the highest paid defensive player. Do you think he's really gonna be like, Hey, but what about my guy here? I think he's gonna be fine.
They better figure it out before Michael gets ever gets that close to free agency because I agree that agree price.
Will be I don't think that CD one's the most surprising thing of the off season for me. They always want It's not them not doing that much in free agency because we we're used to it, Like you know, we were talking about the brand of car. Thing that it's it's that CD is not done because he's done everything to back off all the boxes. There's no questions left with the top five receives.
And I also understand waiting for the market to settle, I guess and kind of determine where you want to go with that. But my thing is like, you have to get it done before.
What's the number right now? What's the starting.
That's that conversation. We don't know what what they're asking for. What if the entire time they've been asking for thirty five, I don't know that I'm just throwing something out. If they're asking for thirty five, another guy getting thirty another guy getting thirty two isn't really changing.
But as of right now, let's just say that that they weren't asking anything to date.
What does a conversation start with today?
If I mean aj Brown, just thirty five?
Thirty three?
No, but that's not what you're asking for. You would ask for more?
Oh no, what am I asking forty?
Yeah?
You know what I mean, of course, but I think you're hoping for thirty three to thirty five.
Whatever the contract has to be, it's going to have to be. You have to be the next guy that's number one.
And in that years too. Does he want to go back to the well, yeah, sooner like Dack didn't.
I feel like so many these guys, it's four year deals, two million game.
Is he worth two million in the game? Absolutely?
I think I think CD Lamb is I do.
I'm just I'm not saying he's not worth I'm just that number one.
You guys do realize that CD and Jefferson are with the same company.
They're both a c A A.
So I mean, like, it's not they're both one guy is going to start first because they both know what's going on.
Yeah for sure.
So for sure, let's have him signed the same deal at the same time.
Happening the same day. There's gonna be not gonna happen.
But I'm just saying there c A represents both of them. Now they do have different agents within c A, but c as well.
Eventually those guys are gonna want one of those guys are gonna want to get their money. Yeah for sure that they're gonna be like, Okay, this is fun. Now let me get that country.
This was fun. Yeah, let's let's sign it.
And then Jamyar chase the top all of them.
I would assume CD he would want to sign before Justin, But I mean whatever, we'll find out.
Conversation starts at at least thirty three.
Thirty three yeah, oh yeah.
Now at AJ Brown and I'm around Saint Brown have reset that market, absolutely, it does, all right. It's not like we're gonna come back here. We're gonna be like, hey, it's crazy marketing. Hey, top guys getting twenty five. Now it's on the other side.
He's sitting on the couch right now with his ankles crossed with a toothpieck.
Just yeah, wait, go ahead, But how long can you do that for?
He can do it for as long as it needs to. Is not with a cowboys can no.
But I'm saying that Jamar would be the next guy. Then he would reset over all of them. I'm not I don't really care about the agency, to be honest with you, I think all these guys all want to each who whether they're represented by the three of us or somebody else, they all want to reset the market.
All right, boys, That'll be it for talking Cowboys. We'll be back next Tuesday. What we're out of here? Man, we gotta go. It's time next Tuesday, ten am. Thank you very much. Tune in for Cowboy storyline after this, and we also have Hanging with the Boys today at two ten. Thank you for Chris Beam, I say stand back, John Machoda, Let's do this. Josh Rodriguez, Thank you, Kyle Almost. Thank you, Nick Rose. Though you're not here, we appreciate you later.
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