Talkin' Cowboys: Strategizing Free Agency

You guys are about to go to the combine. There's a lot happening around here. It's all happening. It's not going to be quiet for long, is it. Yeah? And Indy, you know they had a lot happened last week. Pretty strange, have you, guys. I guess we've seen that before where coaches kind of say they're going to be somewhere and then they back out. That was weird. It's happened. Bill Parcels did it the year before he took this job,

had had a lined up job in Tampa Bay. Didn't didn't happen, Yeah, but it had had some particular interest here with you Matt eberflew so and what was going to happen with him? He's still an India though. Would you like that where you accept a job and you think you're going to go work for Mickey Spagnola. You love Mickey, I'm all set, y'all set, and then Mickey's like, hey, I'm leaving and you're gonna get random person here. But you still get a chance. That probably would celebrate, But

I'm not working for Mickey. Oh, you'd still get to run your own defense. Pup my fist. But maybe it's somebody who runs a contraction contract. Great point. How long that last? I mean Belichick did it when at the Jets. Yeah, he was gonna be Bill's successor, and then he went to New England. Yeah, the two Bills, and he'd still need to watch that. It's pretty good. You need to watch it. I think the thing that's really interesting about you can talk about what Parcels did. If you look

back on that show. Belichick should have had the Giant's job. Yeah, the fact that Bill told him after he already had taken the Cleveland job that well, I'm gonna go to broadcasting here for a year and work on my health. That doesn't that doesn't bode very well. I mean, if you think you'd be working close with some of your saying hey, listen, I'm thinking about taking this year off, going to name you the guy he interested in this thing.

You know he didn't do that. Belichick should have been the New York giants next head coach, not Ray Hanley. That's that's very selfish. I believe on Bill's part. That was the biggest mistake. The Giants made sure it was Hanley about Hanley, and then Hanley had one decision to make who was a quarterback and he chose the wrong way. Yeah, but it goes It just shows you. It just shows you though with with Parcels as good as he can be. And you watch that that, I know what, we don't

want totally revisit it, but you watch that. You could see Belichick kind of looking at him Lang. Really, you know, we're sitting here and you you know you they're bringing this up, and you're you know, you don't I mean that, Yeah, there's a lot, there's still a lot there between those two. I mean they act like there, but I don't believe it's his smoothed over as everybody thinks you know that sort of happened here when he left because he didn't

make his decision. Well you said it would, yeah, And Mike Zimmer was here and he needed a job because his contract was up. He didn't know if if Parcels would stay, if a new coach would keep him, and he went to Atlanta. Well, I think, going back to the same thing which you're talking about, it if they need a job, Mattie reflews from I assume was wanting

the DC job here. Of course, Marion Ellie is still here, and I don't know if there were discussions about, hey, it's going to be one more year or two more years or what it isn't it. I don't think anybody could. I don't think anybody, you know, the Joneses would know. Marinelli would know, but I don't think your Garrett would know. I don't think you can really you know that they really could put a timetable on that. I don't think

that you know that. We go back to last year and the fact that he had his chance to sign an extension and he didn't. I think that's really where the damage was done. If you want to say damage, I think matt wants to run his own defense. I felt like though that you know, they said, hey, we're you know, we're not going to let you, you know, interview for the San Francisco job. And once that happened, then Matt's decision for him was pretty easy. You know, Okay,

well then I'll just move on. I'll take my chances. I'll bet on myself. Did somebody want to hire me away from this place? Absolutely? Yeah. I think they viewed him as a young star in the league coaching wise, But you know, I think he took an opportunity that was good for him. The Cults are standing by him and keeping his new role as DC, and I think they the Cowboys brought in a guy Chris Richard that

they're pretty excited about success. That's Sattle, absolutely, you know, with you know, he's had some players in Seattle when you think about the Legion of Boom and all that. But I think to Brian's point, he's been saying this for a while, he could bring in some fresh ideas for the secondary. Absolutely. Would you like would you like being Matt Patricia in this scenario, Like, hey, you can go, you can go be a head coach, but we're gonna

keep this guy. He's our favorite. Josh McDaniels. You can't get out of our grasp. Well, obviously kidding here did not happen, but I would I would like to know how much jurisdiction Patricia had with that defense with Belichick there. I mean, did he really run it himself or was he the caretaker? And those things? You just don't know. It looks like he is calling the plays. But they

both got headsets on, right. Yeah. I always wondered about that because the same thing happened with Wade Phillips here, No in Brian Stewart with New England. Oh, the defensive line coach romanel Cornell, Yeah, you know, and then he got his job to be DC and it didn't work out all that well or head coach? Was it? He moved on to the head coach at Cleveland, that's right, and it didn't work out so well. Has it worked

out well for anyone? So not anybody in clue, just never know how much the guy has, Like like, well, look what Patricia did in Detroit, right, he hired Paul Pasqualoni as a defensive coordinator. Well, he's gonna be the defensive coordinator in name only. Patricia's gonna do that, and I think head coaches, the reason you got the job was because you were a good defensive coordinator. So I think initially you ought to just keep doing what you're

good at. Mike Zimmer at Minnesota, right, Mike still calls the defenses of Minnesota. I mean, I thought that was Wade, Wade, Wilson, Wade Phillips downfall here, should have kept being the defensive coordinator. He mentioned the name Brian's and he hired Brian Stewartricia hired him. Yeah, right, Brian Stewart started out as a defensive coordinator. Then Wade kind of said, Okay, I'm gonna do this again. I'm gonna step in. Sorry, Brian. That

goes back to the whole walk around coach thing. Is it better to not have all those responsibilities that you're trying to juggle. Jason Garrett handed over play calling duties to Scott Nahan after a while because it was just, you know, let's focus on the whole football team. It's a it's a tough balancing at Doug Peterson's doing it pretty well in Philly. Yeah, he'll see how long he does it. Yeah, he's done it for two years. He just lost his OC though. Yeah, Frank rights pretty good

because now who would have thought this? Eberflus now united with the OC from the Eagles. They know each other well obviously watching so much tape on each other's That could be an advantage. That could be a really good advantage for him, the fact that he's got somebody that has some familiarity with him through you know, respect. You know, I believe that. You know, every time I've ever talked

to anyboy the Eagles, they respect the Cowboys coaches. They I've never heard anybody like guy's a clown or anything like that. I've never heard that. But now I think that it bodes well for Matt if he could go to a place where somebody has an idea of his work, that always helps absolutely and Indy you guys will probably

see him there, So we look forward to that. Yeah, and of course we know that Stephen and Jerry will definitely talk when they're But what we're gonna say, no, I was going to say it kind of now an interesting dynamic and free agency with Matt Eberflus being in Indianapolis. Do you lose Anthony Hitchens? That's a great point. I mean that that's where now you've got a defensive coordinator going away and was somebody that you like. It's it's solid,

they've got space. Yeah, from what I've read. Yeah, so and he loves Hitchens. I mean, you know, yeah, that's this guy. Guys, he's he's brought up through the system to be there playing a lot and doing it. You'd like to be making a lot of money, that would be yeah, playing a lot, so okay, but passion of the game. Well, and then Anthony's Anthony's a Midwestern guy,

I mean, school to Iowa there, so he understands. And you know, Matt, who better than to to convey your message in the locker room than somebody you know and trust that he could walk up, he could come into the room and say or to Matt and say, hey, listen, man, these guys aren't getting it. You need to think about this. And I can't always want to keep him too, There's no doubt about it. But logic states like Brian said,

I mean that there's competition for you there. How many times have you guys seen that where a coach goes to a new team and then they kind of pick up some Oh Belichick did it he took If you go watch the two Bills, he took all those linebacker Pepper Johnson and ourselves did ye got here? But he got here right? Yeah? Oh? And I mean look at Marion Elli. He's brought guys that he knew about. Yeah, on other teams, so exactly. Chicago and Tampa both pretty common. Well.

Last week, congratulations to John Stephen Jones, who signed with Arkansas. While there, of course, his whole family showed up for the event. Stephen Jones talked and Robbie wrote an article, and I thought we could kind of spend a few first minutes on the next three months being critical in the Cowboys building a team to catch the goals. Because I don't know where did Jerry say that pillow screaming quote. I didn't I read it, never saw it or heard

it anywhere. Did you see that? What was the quote? It was like you hear that mumbling, it's me screaming and my pillow mad about the Eagles winning a Super Bowl. I'm paraphrasing this. Somebody probably caught up with him during Super Bowl week. I didn't see Minneapolis, but Stampin was asked go ahead, no, I was gonna say he said it after the game. Oh he did, but didn't he or did he saying about Philadelphia just being it was

reaction to him winning. Let's see where it says. I'm sorry they say pro football talk because normally normally don't Mickey's favor, No pro football talks. Okay, it's pro football focus focus. Uh. Normally they don't striten for Christmas. Normally they don't stay for the game. They leave like on Saturday to come back. They stayed for the game, Yeah, normally they haven't They all right? When it's the Cowboy, I don't think. I don't think anybody in the organization

loves that Philly's the champion right now. I think it's competition in your division. They've got to find a way to catch those guys. I Clarence Hill. Clarence Hill caught up with him. He beat making to the scoop. He said, the muffled voice you've been hearing is me screaming in my pillow over not being here and seeing Philadelphia. So that must have been prior to then. Yeah, that's a hell of a quote right there, And I'm that sums up.

I mean, that's a division rival. Now that you look at him and say, they're getting the quarterback back healthy, there got a lot of their pieces coming back. It's going to be a challenge. But Stephen Jones did say ta, and I'm quoting him here, he said, well, McLay, our coaching staff, Jerry and I really got to roll up our sleeves and improve our football team. And if we do that, we think we've got a great opportunity to

compete for a super Bowl championship. End quote. So he did speak to those next three months, and when he was talking about was what we've got coming up, combine free agency draft, how are they gonna address some of the spots they need to fix. And I don't think they look at it and say we're really far away. I think they had some key injuries that they had to do a better job of covering four and that can be coaching that can add, that can be personnel

adding better depth at certain spots. But I don't think they look at this and say we're miles beyond Philly. That quote sounds like it was said at a social event, knowing Jerry Jerry's quote. Yeah, Yeah, I don't know, Jed. Social events is always good, right, Yeah, I like it regardless. No, I mean that's pretty honest, right, yeah, But I'm sure he was trying to be funny. You know, we'll focus on Stevens quote because I think that's the important one.

That's the one that says, Okay, what are you going to do to make your football team better? This is the opportunity that you have, whether it's you know, like he's talking about the draft, free agency. They made a bold decision last year and really to let go of all those defensive backs. Absolutely feels like it worked out pretty well. Now how do you how do you replicate what you did there? You did it through the draft,

but you know, now you have to figure out ways. Okay, let's figure out what we need to do free agency again? Is it the bottom fishing type of attack. If you're going to do the bottom fishing attack, you got to be better at it. And they haven't been better at the last couple of years. You know, if you're going to now, they've also they missed on it. You know, I think that Cedric Thornton was a it was a big money free agent guy for them. It were their philosophy. Yeah,

and that didn't work out very well. So you know, the pro personnel guys have got to figure out Okay, if we're gonna you gotta keep pitching. You can't, you know you can't. You guys you got did not go absolutely take and fish yet, but when you bought bottom fish. But but there's some teams. But if you look at what Philadelphia with jeff with all Sean Jeffrey one year deal initially, you know they they paid for them, No one year deal, it was a one year deal. Long

was a short deal. Yeah. I'm just saying, they gave money to Cedric Thornton. Yeah, and and in long term money. And I think that's where if you're the Cowboys, Okay, what direction do you go? If I'm Will McClay, I'm now leaning on my my pro personnel guys and saying, all right, listen here, guys, let's talk about this. Let's figure out where we are when in regard to these players, you know, where do they fit? Are we going to a year from now being saying, Okay, why do we

do this? I think this is an important time at the college Scouts. I think did a nice job last year with their guys. I think with the guys they went out and got, you know, need to have another one like that, need to add more pieces there. So but the pro guys, you know, again, roll up your sleeves and figure this thing out. Because if you're going to bottom fish or playing this tip, dip your toe in the pool, you better find some guys that can

match with what Philly's doing. If it has to be with trades, you know, they've they've they've had some successful, you know, successful trades. I think David Irving is a successful trade if people look at his ability. Now maybe not Bryce Butler so much. That wasn't a successful trade if you look at you know, look at the end result of that they trade for Irving her now to sign him off the practice, I thought he was a trade. They signed him off Ken you know, but either way, yeah,

was it a practice squad one? Yeah, so U Kansas City. But to your point, you know, McLay and and the pro Personal Department have found guys through free agency in some of that bottom fishing stuff before. I think it's these last couple of years, there have been some some things that just didn't work out, and h and like

we said, Philly's had some more success that way. I there are certain spots on this team though people want them to spend money, and I don't think the secondary, for example, is one where you go out and you spend try to spend a bunch of money. You have young players that you want to grow. So if you're gonna spend money, you got to figure out spots where you got to replace guys or we absolutely need an upgrade there. I don't think the secondary is one of them.

So where are you going to spend your money? You're gonna go bottom fish or if you're gonna go look for a free agent, what they're gonna do first is they're gonna look to resign DeMarcus Lawrence or franchise in one of the two. They're gonna resign Zach Martin. I think everybody's pretty confident that will eventually get done. That should open up some space. They're gonna take care of their own first, they always do, and then then it's probably that next wave of free agency. I don't see

it changing from what it's been. I really don't. So if you were going to go into free agency, know what position are you looking at? That's a great question to hold until after we come back from break, and before we go to break, we do want to send our condolences to the Garrett family on the passing of

Jim Garrett. All our thoughts and prayers with them. You know, great long time scout here, obviously his most famous work being Treykman's Scouting Report and Brian, you guys got a chance to work with him, So just want to send our condolences to his family right now going through a difficult time. Yeah, Jim, Jim's outstanding. You know, I enjoyed working with him the six years I was here, very

passionate about what he brought every every time. You know, you could see where Jason gets a lot of his focus and drive and things like that. Jim was the same way. Really really enjoyed working with that absolutely, And if you want to learn more about him, tune into our Deep Blue which is currently on the homepage of Dallas Cowboys dot com. It's the Jim Garrett story. Very fascinating,

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best pair you'll ever wear, or they're free guarantees. Plus shop exclusive Cowboys underwear at Tommy john dot com Forward Slash Cowboys for twenty percent off your first order Tommy john dot com Forward Slash Cowboys. Thank you so much. Well, guys, the cliffhanger we've been waiting for. Mick. Your question please, if you were going to spend money in free agency, what position do you think they need to fortify through free agency? Tell me what happens with Anthony Hitchens. Okay,

as Bryant, are those guys going anywhere? Because if they are, then you've got to look at replacing them. Scandrick. Scandrick's another one. Although I feel again in Africa right now. He didn't invite make you this year. Oh well we're besties now, guy his jersey. Yeah, there you go. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to go back though, No, Brian. Brian was saying, I think secondary wise, I feel better about the young group.

I mean, maybe you bring in another low cost guy or something, but I think your low cost guy has been wickery. Okay, you know you keeping you've already got him. Yeah, I don't know if Yeah, I mean he is under contract. I don't know the situation they have been wickery. They gave a draft pick for there you go. I'll get

one of these right one of these days. Sorry about that, folks, But uh, you know, I think that you make a good point about the linebackers because just when I'm finding out in the draft is the depth of the linebacking position is not great. So if you were you know, if you if you had money, you would surely make a run at signing your own at Anti Hitchins. But the fact that you don't have any money, maybe you

can create some money. But I feel like though that if you're going to go that way, maybe then you try and find a guy more of a backup guy, because if you're comfortable with Jalen Smith playing as the mic linebacker and then now you get to figure out Okay, Damian Wilson, we wrote about him yesterday in our evaluations. So yeah, I think that you have to kind of think about depth. That's really where the biggest thing is can you get a guy? And they had some success.

I remember Jasper Brinkley was a guy they signed that didn't really work out. You know, have they signed some linebackers before They've tried to draft linebackers before. It really hasn't worked out, you know, with the backup variety of mind, I don't think Duran will be back for sure. He won't be back. Yeah, Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, that it released him, that that was two years ago in my mind. I mean, that was a two years ago. They tried to capture and capture that same type of

magic with him, and it just didn't work out. At the end, he was like a healthy scratch at the end. They really want to keep Hitchens. I think they recognize the importance of having depth at that spot, just because we've seen injuries. They've seen Sean get hurt. Obviously, Jalen's been trying to get healthier and healthier. It just depends on, you know, what the money value might end up being. What would your answer be to that, Mick, It would be Anthony Hitchens if I could afford it. I want

what I know. I don't want to bring in somebody else's trash. Can we put out a number. I want to know what we're looking at with Anthony Hitchens? I mean, is there any estimate what's the market for a linebacker like him? It's a starting linebacker. That's that's a really good that's a good question because I always always fear. I fear the cap. I'm a I avoid the cap is what I do well. And I'm just about trying to go find me guys and somebody else figure out

how to pay the guy. Is because last year when they did let all those dbs go, you knew a good estimate for Clayborne, and you knew a good price for bury Church even though you'd seen him stayed for And then you know, I think maybe some people were surprised with Terence Williams taking less money than what was anticipated. Me just wasn't offer all right, let me ask you anything. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Ye. So, and if you look at Barry Church, Jacksonville had just like all kinds of

money to throw at whatever they needed to spend. Otherwise they were going to be below the minimum of what you're supposed to spend in a salary cap. So you never know when you run into a team that sets the market value exponentially higher than what you think it should be. And then in that case, it's like, okay, here we go have a good career. Yeah, what were you going to say? I'm looking at linebackers contracts, and I'm kind of looking on the low end of hing.

Like Danny Trevathan who was with the Bears and his average was seven million a year. It's pretty good. Kevin Mentor who was with the being Paul Puzzleski, I would say in the state, Yeah, he's with Jacksonville. He's a five million dollar year player. I wonder what the does it have like signing bonus guaranteed money in there, guaranteed for UH one point one point three for post Luski. I always see his name run I can't always get that right. But Trevethan was three three five million dollars.

What about Jacksonsville linebacker, the outside guy from Florida State? Is he still on his first contract? I did inside linebackers as well. He did. Look I just looked at the inside linebackers like Luke Keikley is the highest paid one. He's over he's twelvey three years, and Bobby Wagner's ten seven. Alex Ogletree from the Rams, he's ten five. Mark Barron from the Rams is nine million a year. He paid a lot, but he was the first round. He was

but but he is that his second contract. No, this is he's understricted into twenty twenty one, so he must have resigned a contract. Yeah, so if you give something Bryanushing, remember Brian Cushing with the Texans, he's eight seven. He play at the end of the year, So so you can count on him getting something that's going to average five or six million a year. That's kind of what I'm thinking about right now. Give him a four or

five year deal. It's something in the twenties thirty range. Yeah, like that, and you're gonna have to give him, you know, and there's ways of reducing the big total by giving him more of a guarantee. So you can say, okay, I'll guarantee this much, but total is not going to be as much as everybody else. See if you think about, okay, the guarantee percentage like I did Ogletree, you know, at

ten million, that's forty five percent. Baron is at thirty three percent, Cushing's is at eight seven, His is forty percent. So I mean you're looking at somewhere. You're gonna have to guarantee at least half his contract to get him here, or maybe to get him to resign. Yeah, so that's pretty significant, and you don't have a lot of money available once you do the two things that talked about. I have a question. I hate to ask this, but it comes up. It definitely comes up when you're thinking

about giving him some more years. Is he two injury prone? Is that even a who's that? Hitchens? Hitchens two injury prone? You know? Is he just injury history? Does his injury history concern you? How about this one? That was his first injury? One't well, he's been he's been banged up throughout his career. My ankle and yeah he's he's had knee. Oh that took him out pretty much. Think about this.

Take this. That's a good question. Okay, if you had to sign someone long term, well, I love, I love, I'm it's just gonna take a different direction if you go long term with what you know with the back of the of Lawrence or what the injury history of what you know with Hitchens? Which one brings you more pause if you had to sign somebody Hitchens as far as because DeMarcus Lawrence got that back taking care if he says he's been the best shape of his life

last year. Nck On Wood, knock on Wood. We didn't see him miss a game with that. Yeah, he played the Pro Bowl. I mean, I know that's not a real game, but you know, yeah, he's had two surgeries, and yeah he did have the full season. Hitchens has been more, like you said, just playing random things, because yeah, he's just playing through stuff. And I think there's probably pause Brian to any free agent linebacker because it's such a punishing position. I mean, all those guys are going

to get beat up at some point. But he is mid twenties, so I think, you know, he's still got some good years later. Yeah, It's it's hard to even say that. And that's why I was very hesitant to even ask that, because, yes, his injury history is it's kind of random. It's the ankle and obviously the knee that happened in preseason, but he plays through a lot of exactly because I was going to say, then you look at some Kaylin Smith, where a lot of people

have been like, yeah, his injury history is terrifying. Yeah, he played all sixteen. Yeah. The thing about Hitches, he's not the biggest middle linebacker in the world. You know, he's about two thirty five Hitchens. He played sixteen games, sixteen games, sixteen games in twelve games. No, no, we were Yeah, his rookie year, he was, he got banged up. He's always played. No, no, he's always played. He's always played.

That's true. That run out, Mickey, just rush. I'm just trying to says, just talking about, you know, a big financial commitment in somebody. You've got always got to put stuff into account. Um, I would. I would have a financial commitment to Sean Lee. That's true. You did. If you're gonna play with a scared stick, then you're gonna have trouble signing anybody. Well, then you just answer my question. They're not worried about that. Then again, you never want

to sign anybody. Yeah, well, I don't want to sign other people's junk. Yeah it's junk. How about for lords, though, you're willing to pay him more than eighty five million total value of his contract. Okay, here's the Here's what I always go back to, though, if you don't bring him back, I mean you're gonna franchise him now sure, all right, but but now all of a sudden, I mean, he's the closest thing to Award Daddy to quote Jerry

his term. I'm asking. I'm asking my colleague because he wants not to sign someone else's junk, but I'm asking him him about his own. He is willing to pay more than eighty five million. I don't know that I'm willing to pay him eighty five million dollars. That's where because start, I can understand why, and I understand what happened with Olivier Vernie. Jason Pierre Paul's up there too.

But but everybody, everybody points out that Vernon came off a seven and a half sack season, But if you look at his stats prior to that, he had a bunch of double digits seasons, which that's why I got eighty five million dollars, which Lawrence didn't have, right correct all. I don't know how much that factors into the decision of the big number overall, which pay him seventy million. That's gonna be, that's gonna be Claiss Campbell right now,

Clariss Campbell right now. Is it's sixty million his that's fifty percent of his of his total guarantees thirty million dollars. Average guarantee a year is seven and a half average years fifteen i'd get I'd pay him average a seven and a half. Yeah, I would do that. I wonder if he would want to do that. What do you mean, take a little less, you know than maybe what he's looking for. I don't know what he's looking for. I think I think I think they're starting with Klais Campbell's

where what was Campbell's sixty men? Again, it's thirty million, and it was Jacksonville. I'm just saying, though I understand it's a free agent defensive end. So five was his five years? Uh, he's through twenty twenty one. Yes, so five years sixty million. Ye, average of it's fifty percent. You're gonna have to guarantee him thirty million dollars. That's a lot. Five years, sixty million, So that's twelve million a year fifteen that's the going rate for a Bowl

pass rusher fifteen would be seventy five million. Well, let's say so it must not have been five years. It must have been just four because he's through twenty twenty one, so it becomes a seventeen eighteen, nineteen, twenty twenty one. Five years. Yeah, average is average per year fifteen million. It's total value the contract sixty million dollars, thirty million guaranteed, average guarantee a year seven and a half. Let's just

throw that number out there. You're gonna give average guarantee, Yeah, not the average. No, he's a fifteen million dollar year player. Yeah, fifteen million over five and my math tells me that's

seventy five million, nine sixty. Do the Cowboys really want to slot him at seventeen million dollars next year or would you rather get something done that's palatable for both sides and reduce that cap hit, because that's a lot of money for one player, especially when we're talking about trying to do with some extra things with this roster. Would you've thought that four years ago from Dez Bryant? What's that that type of contract did he sign? Would

he get five for seventy or something? The right? Mickey? That sounds yes, that sounds right, Yeah, Kentals, that's correct. Well, again, he was, I mean the time he's he was considered top certainly top ten receiver in the NFL. And and I mentioned him earlier like I'm I'm operating under thee that he's coming back, But you know, there's speculation about

could he return, could he not return? If he doesn't, then all of a sudden, you're going fishing in free agency for a receiver, in my opinion, because I don't think you're gonna draft a guy. There's talented receivers out there, but who you're gonna draft. It's gonna step in and be your number one guy, you know. I think you'd have to go out and find a replacement veteran, and I just don't know if they they want to do that. You know, what scares you? Create another big need for yourself.

So what scares you about giving DeMarcus Lawrence that kind of money? What scares you? Yeah? I think maybe the one year inconsistency. No, I don't know if it's inconsistency. I think it's just one year. You know, maybe maybe maybe injury has robbed him some opportunity to be the type of player we saw last year. It certainly has the back. You know, they had the one year with eight sacks, right right, eight sacks two years ago. I'm talking about that. If you're paying, if you're at the end.

He had back problems that needed, yeah, be a repair. Yeah, it's surgery on his back, shoulder, two stray januaries. Yeah, he's been through some stuff, no doubt about it. But again, but again, it's like, this is the best pass rusher you've had, and it's probably since DeMarcus Ware and his first year got shortened because of the fractured fifth meta tarsal. Right, you got miss the first nine games and then he missed last year a lot with suspension. I know what

you're saying, Bright, it's a lot of money. But I mean, no, I'm okay if you got a guy like that, No, No, I'm okay with I'm just trying to say, you know, you look like say, I'm looking at Dez Bryant's contract right now, you know, and I'm thinking, you know, several years ago you made that kind of commitment. Are you worried about making commitments to these guys that at the end of the day we're talking about three years from now, Well, why why are we on that commitment? Are you? Are you?

And you're it goes. Do you think the Giants are happy with Vernon's production. I don't think so. I mean either, I don't think so, And I think that's that's what That's what scares see, Mickey, You brought up Olivier Vernon had has had he had like an eleven sack. Yeah, he's had back to back seasons. But you're right, if you don't draft, or you don't draft, you don't sign those guys. I mean, the draft is not going to

afford you a guy like that. No, it's not, it's not, it's I mean, I'm just I'm just talking abot what I'm seeing so far. Unless you're gonna go up and get Nick Chubb or the not Nick Chubb, but you get Chubb from yeah, from North Carolina State. Oh yeah, he's a defensive end. There's Chubb that's a running back, and there's Chubb that's a defensive end. Great last name, and this, yeah it is. And this is why the philosophy is. This is why the philosophy is is sound.

That's funny, thank you, good dad joke. That's why they prefer to sign their own guys to these big money deals because at least they feel like they have a bank of knowledge on that player that other people don't have. Instead of going out and spending eighty million bucks on a guy that, hey, they've watched him on tape, they don't really know him. That well, So that's I mean, does it always work. No, But that's why they go

with that flock. What's going to happen with them? They're gonna franchise him, and because I think his agent Cantor I think his name is um probably wants to find out get a better feel for what the market value sure, and so you would have an opportunity and free agency to to check that out to see what's he worth? What what should I hold out for on a long term deal. Otherwise it's like, okay, one year, seventeen point four million. I think I think they're gonna I do

think they're looking at Klai's Campbell steal. I just do. I think that's kind of where. Okay, Well, they both were kind of back and forth this year on on sacks. You know, okay, what did he get Cowboys franchise Anthony Spencer two years in a row, I think for at the time for like twelve million bucks. Boy he signed that thing like the next day. Both years, did you know what? Yea? Which free cash right away? Of the Cowboys?

Which extension has been the best? Tyron Smith does Bryant Travis, Frederick, Shawn Lee, Tyron Crawford, Jason Witten, Orlando Scandrick pull Beasley. Which one, which one's been the best? Jason Witten, Travis, Frederick Bailey, No debts, right, Dan Bailey's in there, thank you. Ken. I would say Tyron Smith just because there's a lot of years that he's He's signed a ten year deal a few years ago. There's been a lot of Pro Bowl years there. Frederick's been really solid, but it's only

been a couple of years. Shaun Lee is pretty good. Yeah, So what you're saying, though, is what I'm I guess what I'm saying to you guys is the extension for your own hasn't been bad for this team, right, And that's the Yeah, that's the philosophy. We know these guys better than we would somebody on the market that okay, yeah he's good, but do we really know about him? And most of the time, I think that's sound logic,

you know. I mean, you mentioned Dez and now we're talking about future here, but it's not always the imagine if the Cowboys had extended Morris Clayborne and paid that kind of money and what they were, well, they wouldn't. I mean I know that, but you had had a really solid years. Yeah. See, that's that's the thing about it.

You know, you you look at this thing and you know, you're just you're just you're kind of a sign of your own because if I've said this before, if Lawrence hits, Hitchens hits and David Irvin hits on the market, somebody signs. Those guys are getting signed. I mean, those guys are getting money. So signing your own signing them, it's like a good like a good year in free agency. Yeah, absolutely,

and seeing Unfortunately people don't look at it that way. No, but the bottom fishing has killed this team these last two years. They have, Yeah, the debt. To Mickey's point, he always talks about depth, where the Eagles got away with it. They had a fifth round tackle play. You had a third round tackle that wasn't terrible for you until October last year. You know, you had that guy that was able to kind of step in at play for Tyrant Smith until he had an awful game in Atlanta.

And now we're all throwing him out with the bathwater. And he's got one more year left. Yeah, I need to work with him at tackle. I keep working with him, all right. Well, yes, get back to more of what you'd better cover yourself, sorry, cover yourself during this break because we have to take our final break here and Mickey is just dropping the one liners today, so don't miss it. Final segment coming up right after this. Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't

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and cheerleaders. That's not all, though, You'll get to talk xs and os with Senior Director of Player Personnel Will McClay and of course with yours truly me, Brian broad Us, you can trust the official fan travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, and with us you'll travel like a pro. Visit Cowboys Travel dot com to book your travel package today. I hear all this talk about what it takes to be a cowboy. Everyone's got their ideas, but I just

say to myself, it's what's up top that matters. Sure, you need men with the muscle and heart to get her done. But if your scouts and coaches are listening out there, a word of advice. Pick the man with the most well worn stetson. That's the one most cut out to be a cowboy. Stetson hats are handmade right here in Texas and at bet On Cowboys Heads for over one hundred fifty years. The rest of you can visit stetson dot com slash cowboy to find a retailer

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This is talking Cowboys. Have Nick I am here? Yeah? Yeah, John, he's worried that I'm going to take over his advertising spot and they're still doing the dual layer pepperoni. When you spend ten dollars on either a deep dish or a regular size large size pizza, you get two layers of pepperoni. So what could be better than when you have pepperoni that's one pork and beef and you double the amount you get and with ingredients like that and

the amount of ingredients better pizza. It's Papa John's man. They won't hold you down right to take over a spot you had those memorized. Yeah, how about think the dead money is for Cedric Thornton two point five million? How about normally Carroll two romo eight point nine? There you go, thirteen point seven dead money for you this year. That's a lot, Brian, especially when it's just three guys. That's probably you like to just not work and be like,

well they still owe me two mills. No, they don't pay. It's just already paid. Yeah, and now it's just going to be a vege a chill in the PAC twelve. All right, good for him, Jelly yep, all right, our aggie on set Phillips. Yeah, I got throughout a bunch of Hey, give us some pole ideas for the offseason. We got a bunch of good ones from guys. You unn No, I'm just you know, this is the fans show, Mickey, you're letting the people speak their show. Brian gave us

a good one. Thank you to Brian. Brian always if he agrees with them post results, Yes, we'll find out very quick. Okay. Here he came up with this idea about the defense. I'm switching to offense. Where will the offense be ranked in twenty eighteen, because there's so much consternation about this unit. Can they bounce back to where they were a year ago? Four options one through five, six through ten, eleven through twenty or twenty one to

thirty two? Anybody got a thought? I will pick where they left off after eight games last year, and it was number five. I vote it done. This poll actually you did, Brian and I voted for the first one one through five. One through five. Wow, now we bastely absolutely, yes, figure out what's going on at left guard. You know what to add another runner if you want to maybe add another receiver somewhere, start as tight ends coach. Yeah,

I believe it. Yeah, you're buying that day. Yeah, okay, that does not come in first, but not not too far away. Six through ten, forty nine percent of the fans believe they'll be a top ten offense again next season, followed by twenty seven percent one through five. So hey, that's some optimism from the fan base. I haven't seen that in the last six weeks. What if what if they get rid of Dez Bryant? It's knowledgeable. What if they do well, that's what I said last segment. You

got to find a receiver. They can. It's going to take us place. No, no, no, no no, If they would would would your opinion change if they move on from Dez Bran? I'm sorry, maybe I should rephrase the question. Well, I didn't have to see what they did to replace them, and if you look at they don't. If you look at the projected list of free agent wide receivers don't like it. None of them had better numbers than Diz.

That's true, none of them. None of them. Yea, And we don't know how many of those guys will get resigned between now in March fourteen. Brian, I know there's some receivers you like. Oh, there's some in the draft. I mean there is an adjustment for rookies coming in. I mean that's there's a perfect example. That is David Hellman's albatross. He wears that one around his neck. He loved treadwall oh coming out. Oh yeah, David is really

wise guy. I mean just check his Instagram. Well, sometimes with wide receivers it takes a year or two, right, but if you're for him, it's taking more than two. If you're saying, okay, we're moving on and this guy is gonna come in and catch seventy passes for nine hundred yards and ten touchdowns, that's asking a lot. That's asking for a rookie. It is absolutely it is. Hey, I did go back and look at the last five years where this offense has been ranked scoring and yardage.

I didn't specify in the poll, but three of the last five years they've been a top five scoring offense. Twenty sixteen, twenty fourteen, twenty thirteen, they were fifth in scoring right around mid twenties, close to thirty points a game. The twenty fifteen year, they dropped to thirty first, seventeen point points a game. Didn't have a quarterback that could play consistently and not in a non explosive running game.

Zeke comes in, Dat comes in. That changes. Last year they dipped to fourteenth twenty two point one points per game, And really what killed him was that three game stretch when Zeke went out. They didn't get to ten points, so that that was it. They didn't adjust well, and that's really where the season was. At the half white point, they were averaging twenty eight points a game. Yeah, Tarl Prior, Mike Wallace, Sammy Watkins, Eric Decker, Tay Enman, Taylor, Gabriel,

Kamar Aiken, Kindall Wright. They my beating heart. How are you? Yeah? Thank you, Kent. These are buddy with us. Those are three. Those are guys that are contracts, that free agents that would be your guys for this thing. Prior, Wallace, Watkins, Decker, Edman, Gabriel, Aiken, Wright, Slater, Andrea Robbins Albert Wilson, that's not good. Yeah. Well, here's the thing though, I mean, that's where you need to draft if you if you're going to make a move,

you better draft it is a run first offense. Though you know, you get Zeke for sixteen games, he's the foundation of it, but you still got to have guys that can get open and convert their downs and do all that stuff and have a connection with Dak Prescott. We'll just catch the ball. That's easy. Two years ago, they were pretty good at it. Last year not so much. They were one of the best teams in the league when it came to catch drop a ratio. So can

somebody unlock that mystery? Oh line, baby, I think that we've we've talked about the on linement. They've also had. They also had problems getting open though they did, they had they had problems. Let's not let's not just closs over that. So okay on Jay Law get yeah, no, and that's you know, and you know what, that's fair. That's fair. You know that, you know if you're hey, I think everybody is on watch. I don't. I don't

have a problem with that. I really don't. There's not one thing about this offense that's to blame for everything. I mean, you make a great point make about the offensive line, but there's elp. I agree with them about that, Yeah, but there's other factors. Oh, why did it work for eight games? Suddenly they decided let's not be Dack friendly? It wasn't perfect for eight games average, They had eight points a game, and they scored at least twenty eight

games three through eight. We get a call, Yeah, show next week. Maybe an old lineman, What old lineman would you like to ask that question too? What? Why did it work for eight games? Because they were healthy? Yeah, and they were on the field. I wonder if they would have a different opinion on why it worked? Yeah? Or why? Yeah? Why? Yeah? You know it's it's Iron was out a few games off here, and I know

Chas Green was better than anyway. The Atlanta game, for some reason, took this season in a bad direction for three weeks, and I think it gave everybody a blueprint out there that do not, I'm cringing, do not let Dak Prescott beat you. Don't let him outside the pocket. Do whatever you have to do to make sure he doesn't beat you without Zeke there we can take chances. And I think teams did that because they didn't fear

that running game. There was no one going to run eighty yards for a touchdown or fifteen yards for a touchdown. Rod Smith take an eighty yard pack? Yeah, I know, Okay, one, there's one one in eight games. Rod Smith isn't a free agent, right, you got another Jack he's back, Alfred is. Well, let's see if we can find some answers, because I think we asked that question a lot, and you know,

we've had different theories. Mike Marshall throughout a theory and we've all just thrown out our own thoughts, but I'd love to hear it from them. Yeah. I don't know, we'll find it out, but yes, very very conclusive stuff here. So you were saying though that everybody thinks it's six to ten, Yeah, you would take that. I think was that in scoring or just average yard? I didn't specify, just said, but to me, how many points you're scoring, that's more important to me that I'm a yard you

pile up. Yeah, defensively, they'll tell you they don't care about the yards. They care about how much they give up. Yeah, they got put in some bad spots with some pick sixes they got thrown onto their record last year. Yeah, three of them. Right, I'll tell you what. You look at what they did in twenty sixteen offensively, twenty six

point three per game, almost four hundred yards per game. Yeah, you should figure that twenty six point three over fifteen games, since they didn't really play the last game when they only scored what did they score six six points? Yeah, so they were close to twenty seven something, almost twenty eight as they were scoring the first eight games of last season. I will I will spot you that that when Zeke they got through that Chiefs game, they looked

like a dominant offense. That might have been their best win all year. Yeah, I mean the only games they lost, Okay, throw out Denver. They scored thirty points in both of the games they lost the other two. They were awful Chargers, weren't they. Yeah? Oh yeah, that was kind of the game that trying to turn things around for the defense. I think in that three game stretch they got outscored ninety two to twenty two. That's fun. That's bad after

averaging twenty eight points a game. Yeah, strange, lady, This NFL. No, sure is Rob. It's good to have the NFL's defending rushing champ on the field. Well, we have him on the field. But you know, you're not You're not wrong. But fans and I don't blame them for they kind of roll their eyes at that now because they watch what Philly did. What did Philly do? They won the Super Bowl without their MVP quarterback, so many games that they have to win without him six x and they

hit all all their free agents too. Yeah, they did that too. I'm not Steven Piot was pretty dope. They didn't win six all right. I think he was five? Was he five and one and they going through the playoff? I think they were. I think he was out the Rams game. I thought it was gonna give me the date of the Rams last three games of the season, now he missed. They He lost one game. That's all he lost. He only lost one game, I lose to the Rams or they know he came in and saved that. Yeah,

they saved the Rams game. But he only he lost one game. The only game they lost was the Dallas Boys. The Dallas game, yeah, which they punted the super shady tweet that someone said like Nick Foless, weren't one more playoff games in the past two months than the Cowboys have since nineteen ninety five. Very nice, You guys us such a shade, much shade. It's easy to pile on it's true, but it's true. Yeah Bowls, Yeah, count me in as a guy. Didn't think he would get it done.

I didn't. I was not a Nick Foles fan. I figured sating out in the playoffs. Though we're losing. Okay, you're losing your starting quarterback. You've lost here and Sproils. You've lost Jordan Hicks, he lost when they lost Jason Peters, I was like, oh, okay, they're not even gonna have a chance with Carson Wentz the rest of the year. And then they did that, lose Carson Wentz. I know it's just agonizing. You gotta give him credit, but you got you also, if you're if you're a fan, you're

pissed off. You also have to give credit for Dallas for what they did two years ago. Losing what they lost. It didn't it didn't go their way this year. That's why they got to go back to the lay seventeen games. Dak Prescott played seventeen games, I know, and he had a hell of a year. But they got to get back to the drawing board and figure out how to maximize it. You know. When they were very fortunate to win their first playoff game, by the way, that is true,

balls on the two yard line. That play call there, Steve Sarkissian, and you scored fifteen points. But did you think that game that they held they held at lant in check? I got you. That's that's that was more impressive to me. And wasn't one of the passes that led to their only touch down like bounced off someone's knee. They got nick, they got the trophy. I understand they have resided in Philadelphia. I got it. Lombardi is resting

in God Street right now. Somebody said that the formation they did, that Philly special or whatever, it's actually an illegal formation. Chris, Yeah, Mike White Pereira came out and said it was. I saw. I went back and look, Chris, I'll tell you the first person that notified me that, Christie Scales. Christie Scales came up to me, goes, you got the super Bowl in that box of yours yet? And I'm like, no, ma'am. I mean I looked at No,

it's not there yet. She goes, legal formation, trust me, illegal. This is two weeks. This is like after the game. This is like the Monday after the game. She's going, that's an illegal formation. Are you talking about the superpoint conversion? About the past? Yeah, the touchdowndown, the fact that Jeffrey was off the receiver put on the line of hiding. Was the tackle was uncovered? I read somewhere that they check with the official before the play to make sure

that they're lying. They said Jeffrey did, but Christie Scales was the first one, and I know we're showing it right now on our screen. I mean, I don't know if he checked or not. But if he checked, then the same official that didn't call it here it is right there. You can see it anyway. You can see it right there. See see the depth of the of up at the top. That guy's got to be on the scrimmage. Yeah, the tackle is uncovered in that situation, he's in man line of scrimmage. So that right there

is an illegal formation. Christie Scales exactly came up to me and says, that's a legal formation. Well, at least with guys. We know it was a catch. We do a cat. It was a catchy comment, zach Ertz. You guys just catching it all. Yes, if it's a catch for them, it's a catch for eighty eight. That's that's That was a prime example of why you should call timeout on defense. When they saw that happened, they we're gonna do the razorback or whatever you want to call it,

hike and you saw where the quarterback was. Should call timeout? Are you questioning the hoodie right now? Yeah? Because then you did win a Super Bowl goal line defense. Though one time they're there, their linebackers had if you run the plate, the linebackers had no clue for that was going on. They weren't prepared for that one. Oh man, I think I think we should be invited to the league meetings, do you think, Mick? Yeah, we know what it catches. Y'all come join me and kid, we'll have

some company. You guys can sit in on them and you raise your hand report backs. Is what I think a catch should be. Yeah. Sure it will be interesting to Steve and Jones you talk about that, because Rob and I will be at the combine. Stephen Jones competition committee. We always talked to him the Tuesday of when they're there meeting. Yeah, I'm gonna ask him that might be the first question right out of the blocks. Yeah, if you figured out what a catch is yet? Can you

call timeouts on defense for Mick? Who is that? By the way, who is that? Kent's was Sean from New York? Sean San? Oh, here we go, there we go. We were all standing right there. There's one angle of that. Does this being the blue jatchet. I'm like to Dave in a bad outfit and about to choke Hillman at that book. This is the angle that's that's hard to watch because it's a football. His arm is kind of under the ball at this point. It is a kind of total football move to get to the goal line.

That's guys. I don't know if you saw on Dallas Cowboys dot com that cow buzz that showed a man in Oklahoma's state I think still water. Yeah it was death. Yeah, this is a different guy, this guy who decided to put the picture of the catch painted on the back of his truck. To what Ken just showed you is, were you convinced watching that that his arm wasn't under the ball when the ball popped up, Like, did the ball really touch the ground standing ten feet from it? Nope.

The official standing eight feet in for me agreed. It's like that license plate death. There you go, right there, there you go, eighty eight. Got at baby, he's down. All right, guys, Well, we have one more show for you guys before the combine, right, we do next week. You are here, yes, guys are back in the building ready to go. Before you head up to Indian, say hi to Eberflues for us, we will rest the crew. So thank you so much for joining today. Thank you

Ken Brian. It's all that's pretty good work there. Whoever put that up, can't or TV or whoever take thank you. I'm not gonna let you cut us off. Don't ever do that, all right, Thank you so much. By This has been at Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.